Re: EN forum: change of admin mailbox (and some thoughts)

[Hagar Delest]

Le 22/12/2013 02:36, Rob Weir a écrit :

On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Hagar Delest  wrote:

Hi All,

For the record, I've created a Gmail account (aoo.forum...@gmail.com) so
that users can really contact the forum team. We had in the past an
automatic process that could reply and give the user basic information
(registered or not, ...). Since it's no longer working since the move to
ASF, we had no means to handle problems from users (login failures and other
issues).



Is there any reason we can not use a mailing list for this?  I'd
rather we use an Apache-owned mailing list (a private one if needed)
than a GMail account that we do not control.


Why not a mailing list as long as it is private.
If you find someone to explain how it would work and to implement it, no 
problem.



I'm rather worried by the turn over in the admins of the forum. First Terry,
then JanI who did a lot to update the forums and wiki, then RGB who is
suddenly taking a long break (announced in the private section of the
forum). Imacat seems to have other priorities so there is no one left.

The forums need at least a periodic maintenance to avoid problems like few
months ago. For the record, phpBB is not up to date, the download icon has
not been changed yet and of course, there is no automated mailbox reply.
The forums have proved that they were rather efficient, they are a huge
knowledge base now. But strangely, when it comes to administration, no one
can resist very long.
So is there any problem? Are the forums really part of the roadmap in this
project?



You tell me.   When the forums came to Apache, you and others insisted
on a large degree of autonomy, to manage your own volunteers according
to your familiar rules.  Hopefully part of this was for volunteers,
with the needed skills, to advance via merit, to take on larger
responsibilities, including eventually admin and sys admin roles.  Is
this not happening?


The problem is that all the volunteers who dealt with the technical issues 
linked to ASF have quit.
Strange, isn't it?
NB: it may be related to something I'm not aware of. I remember some 
discussions on the private ML (not very recent since I unsubscribed a long time 
ago) that were appalling, some with high emotional load.
To be honest, I'm starting to believe that the adaptation is only one way and 
that some people are not that happy to deal with a forum.



Have you done a "call for volunteers" recently?  We've had a lot of
luck doing that to find Translators, QA, Doc, etc.  We haven't done
this for forum admins since the assumption (my assumption at least)
was you wanted the forum admins to be familiar with how you run things
there.  But if you want to do a more public "call for volunteers" you
can certainly use our project blog for that.


I made one for the automated mailbox end of June (no reply at all).
I made another one for admins at the end of the summer.
Jürgen volunteered IIRC. Since he does already a lot and that JanI stepped in, 
I've not contacted him.
But now we need another admin so yes, this is a call for volunteers.
But it should be someone used to the technical discussion with ASF/infra. The 
job doesn't seem to be that easy, needing a thick skin. The technical job is 
not difficult on the forum side I think. The main issue is the relation with 
the project I guess.

Thanks,
Hagar

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Re: EN forum: change of admin mailbox (and some thoughts)

[jan i]

On 22 December 2013 10:46, Hagar Delest  wrote:

> Le 22/12/2013 02:36, Rob Weir a écrit :
>
>> On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Hagar Delest 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> For the record, I've created a Gmail account (aoo.forum...@gmail.com) so
>>> that users can really contact the forum team. We had in the past an
>>> automatic process that could reply and give the user basic information
>>> (registered or not, ...). Since it's no longer working since the move to
>>> ASF, we had no means to handle problems from users (login failures and
>>> other
>>> issues).
>>>
>>>
>> Is there any reason we can not use a mailing list for this?  I'd
>> rather we use an Apache-owned mailing list (a private one if needed)
>> than a GMail account that we do not control.
>>
>
> Why not a mailing list as long as it is private.
> If you find someone to explain how it would work and to implement it, no
> problem.
>

you need to file a jira (project infra) requesting the ML. Please add who
should be moderator
https://issues.apache.org/jira

We have another request pending for a german mailing list.


>
>
>  I'm rather worried by the turn over in the admins of the forum. First
>>> Terry,
>>> then JanI who did a lot to update the forums and wiki, then RGB who is
>>> suddenly taking a long break (announced in the private section of the
>>> forum). Imacat seems to have other priorities so there is no one left.
>>>
>>> The forums need at least a periodic maintenance to avoid problems like
>>> few
>>> months ago. For the record, phpBB is not up to date, the download icon
>>> has
>>> not been changed yet and of course, there is no automated mailbox reply.
>>> The forums have proved that they were rather efficient, they are a huge
>>> knowledge base now. But strangely, when it comes to administration, no
>>> one
>>> can resist very long.
>>> So is there any problem? Are the forums really part of the roadmap in
>>> this
>>> project?
>>>
>>>
>> You tell me.   When the forums came to Apache, you and others insisted
>> on a large degree of autonomy, to manage your own volunteers according
>> to your familiar rules.  Hopefully part of this was for volunteers,
>> with the needed skills, to advance via merit, to take on larger
>> responsibilities, including eventually admin and sys admin roles.  Is
>> this not happening?
>>
>
> The problem is that all the volunteers who dealt with the technical issues
> linked to ASF have quit.
> Strange, isn't it?
>

Not quit, giving up is more correctly (at least in my case). I am still
highly active in infra, and maintain a larger number of vm for other
project (who find it easier to make decisions).


> NB: it may be related to something I'm not aware of. I remember some
> discussions on the private ML (not very recent since I unsubscribed a long
> time ago) that were appalling, some with high emotional load.
> To be honest, I'm starting to believe that the adaptation is only one way
> and that some people are not that happy to deal with a forum.
>
>
>  Have you done a "call for volunteers" recently?  We've had a lot of
>> luck doing that to find Translators, QA, Doc, etc.  We haven't done
>> this for forum admins since the assumption (my assumption at least)
>> was you wanted the forum admins to be familiar with how you run things
>> there.  But if you want to do a more public "call for volunteers" you
>> can certainly use our project blog for that.
>>
>
> I made one for the automated mailbox end of June (no reply at all).
> I made another one for admins at the end of the summer.
> Jürgen volunteered IIRC. Since he does already a lot and that JanI stepped
> in, I've not contacted him.
> But now we need another admin so yes, this is a call for volunteers.
> But it should be someone used to the technical discussion with ASF/infra.
> The job doesn't seem to be that easy, needing a thick skin. The technical
> job is not difficult on the forum side I think. The main issue is the
> relation with the project I guess.
>

you need to divide, there are 2 types of admin. I am the sys-admin type,
that can maintain the vm with software, configurations etc, but I think you
also need forum admin, that does the magic inside the forum (I am still
confused about the difference between moderator and admin at that level).

I stepped down, because the PMC group preferred a less formal way of
maintenance (represented by the current sys-admin). I have written it in
other threads, I dont think we need more sys-admin volunteers, we need a
PMC group that chooses the level and type of maintenance (formal version
<-> current version).

At such time where this project is interested in formal regular maintenance
(and its backed by the PMC group, and not just some lazy consensus), I am
willing to help again.

rgds
jan I.




>
> Thanks,
> Hagar
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffi

Re: EN forum: change of admin mailbox (and some thoughts)

[Andrea Pescetti]

Hagar Delest wrote:

Why not a mailing list as long as it is private.
If you find someone to explain how it would work and to implement it, no
problem.


A private list works exactly like the PMC private list (discussion list; 
posts from external people are moderated; moderation happens via 
e-mail). Maybe it is possible to create an "open" mailing list where all 
posts immediately reach the list with no moderation.


You need:
- an @openoffice.apache.org address for the list (is 
ooo-forum-en-serv...@apache.org a proposal for an address? or something 
else, already existing?)

- the Apache accounts of two moderators (who also manage subscriptions)

Just give these details here, and then we can wait for consensus and 
open the JIRA issue for Infra to create the list.



The problem is that all the volunteers who dealt with the technical
issues linked to ASF have quit. Strange, isn't it?


It is explained by the fact that on one side we don't want to put the 
bar so high that it would exclude people from helping, but on the other 
one we receive pressure from Infra (and I believe it's right) to have a 
more "professional" approach to maintenance.


So basically so far we've lived on short-term assignments, but we are 
working on defining rules between the PMC and Infra that will guarantee 
a professional maintenance, more stability and a framework for 
established volunteers to get more involved.



To be honest, I'm starting to believe that the adaptation is only one
way and that some people are not that happy to deal with a forum.


The forum is an important asset. It is just difficult to deal with from 
a management point of view, since it is not a technology commonly used 
at Apache.



phpBB is not up to date, the download icon has not been changed yet
and of course, there is no automated mailbox reply.


I'd love to change some of this. I have access to the forum VM, but it 
is limited to restarting services; I can't even update the download 
icon. And you are correct in saying that it is frustrating to see that 
pending, approved changes are not applied. I hope we can move to a more 
efficient maintenance model at the beginning of 2014.


Regards,
  Andrea.

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Re: EN forum: change of admin mailbox (and some thoughts)

[Rory O'Farrell]

On Sun, 22 Dec 2013 11:40:14 +0100
Andrea Pescetti  wrote:

> Hagar Delest wrote:
> > Why not a mailing list as long as it is private.
> > If you find someone to explain how it would work and to implement it, no
> > problem.
> 
> A private list works exactly like the PMC private list (discussion list; 
> posts from external people are moderated; moderation happens via 
> e-mail). Maybe it is possible to create an "open" mailing list where all 
> posts immediately reach the list with no moderation.
> 
> You need:
> - an @openoffice.apache.org address for the list (is 
> ooo-forum-en-serv...@apache.org a proposal for an address? or something 
> else, already existing?)
> - the Apache accounts of two moderators (who also manage subscriptions)
> 
> Just give these details here, and then we can wait for consensus and 
> open the JIRA issue for Infra to create the list.
> 
> > The problem is that all the volunteers who dealt with the technical
> > issues linked to ASF have quit. Strange, isn't it?
> 
> It is explained by the fact that on one side we don't want to put the 
> bar so high that it would exclude people from helping, but on the other 
> one we receive pressure from Infra (and I believe it's right) to have a 
> more "professional" approach to maintenance.
> 
> So basically so far we've lived on short-term assignments, but we are 
> working on defining rules between the PMC and Infra that will guarantee 
> a professional maintenance, more stability and a framework for 
> established volunteers to get more involved.
> 
> > To be honest, I'm starting to believe that the adaptation is only one
> > way and that some people are not that happy to deal with a forum.
> 
> The forum is an important asset. It is just difficult to deal with from 
> a management point of view, since it is not a technology commonly used 
> at Apache.
> 
> > phpBB is not up to date, the download icon has not been changed yet
> > and of course, there is no automated mailbox reply.
> 
> I'd love to change some of this. I have access to the forum VM, but it 
> is limited to restarting services; I can't even update the download 
> icon. And you are correct in saying that it is frustrating to see that 
> pending, approved changes are not applied. I hope we can move to a more 
> efficient maintenance model at the beginning of 2014.
> 
> Regards,
>Andrea.

Some rough statistics concerning the en-Forum may help to realise the load it 
(and the other Forums) remove from the mailing lists.

I monitored one week at the end of September. There were 24 new members, 23 new 
topics and 110 posts per day. So these 110 posts did not come to the dev and 
other mailing lists. In addition, there are roughly 10 times as many people 
accessing the existing information and hopefully finding answers to their 
problems, without having to register and pose a query. So the mailing lists are 
spared a considerable amount of traffic because of the Forums.

One can also see in many ML replies to Help queries the increasing use of 
references to Forum threads which solve the query.

OT: Don't get me started on the inability of many students to state a 
meaningful query for a search engine!



-- 
Rory O'Farrell 

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Re: EN forum: change of admin mailbox (and some thoughts)

[Rob Weir]

On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 5:40 AM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> Hagar Delest wrote:
>>
>> Why not a mailing list as long as it is private.
>> If you find someone to explain how it would work and to implement it, no
>> problem.
>
>
> A private list works exactly like the PMC private list (discussion list;
> posts from external people are moderated; moderation happens via e-mail).
> Maybe it is possible to create an "open" mailing list where all posts
> immediately reach the list with no moderation.
>

Our security list is like that -- no moderation.  So we get a little
spam, but posts are never delayed waiting for moderation.

-Rob

> You need:
> - an @openoffice.apache.org address for the list (is
> ooo-forum-en-serv...@apache.org a proposal for an address? or something
> else, already existing?)
> - the Apache accounts of two moderators (who also manage subscriptions)
>
> Just give these details here, and then we can wait for consensus and open
> the JIRA issue for Infra to create the list.
>
>
>> The problem is that all the volunteers who dealt with the technical
>> issues linked to ASF have quit. Strange, isn't it?
>
>
> It is explained by the fact that on one side we don't want to put the bar so
> high that it would exclude people from helping, but on the other one we
> receive pressure from Infra (and I believe it's right) to have a more
> "professional" approach to maintenance.
>
> So basically so far we've lived on short-term assignments, but we are
> working on defining rules between the PMC and Infra that will guarantee a
> professional maintenance, more stability and a framework for established
> volunteers to get more involved.
>
>
>> To be honest, I'm starting to believe that the adaptation is only one
>> way and that some people are not that happy to deal with a forum.
>
>
> The forum is an important asset. It is just difficult to deal with from a
> management point of view, since it is not a technology commonly used at
> Apache.
>
>
>> phpBB is not up to date, the download icon has not been changed yet
>> and of course, there is no automated mailbox reply.
>
>
> I'd love to change some of this. I have access to the forum VM, but it is
> limited to restarting services; I can't even update the download icon. And
> you are correct in saying that it is frustrating to see that pending,
> approved changes are not applied. I hope we can move to a more efficient
> maintenance model at the beginning of 2014.
>
> Regards,
>   Andrea.
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

[LAZY CONSENSUS] maintenance of ooo-wiki2-vm.a.o and ooo-forums.a.o

[jan i]

Hi

based on a polite push from a good infra colleague,  I have decided to
present yet another proposal for maintaining ooo-wiki2-vm.a.o and
ooo-forums.a.o (I already maintain translate-vm2.a.o since this is a shared
service).

This will be proposal number 6, therefore I have allowed myself to cut all
the indirect language. The last proposal was not rejected, but another
admin and 2 other PMC spoke directly against it, as a consequence I saw it
as impossible to implement.

I ask for lazy consensus before january 2 2014. Meaning anyone who have
anything against the proposal please speak up before that date. Since the
proposal has a direct influence on the vm-team, the proposal needs a
positive indication from the members of this group in order to be decided.

= proposal =

Wiki.o.o is maintained by wiki users given administrator status. This
includes monitoring users/submissions and watching/controlling spam.

The single forums on forum.o.o is maintained/moderated by forum users given
administrator status. This includes activating new users, monitoring
users/submissions and watching/controlling spam.

All request for changes in the application (mediawiki, php2bb)
configuration, like new images, new plugins or general setup, must be
mailed to this list (dev@), with a lazy consensus decision of min. 72
hours. The sysadm will without further instruction implement the changes as
soon as possible (depending on sysadm availability) after the decision is
final.

The sysadm has the responsibility to keep the vms including applications
updated and configured in accordance with the infra guidelines and be
responsive to wishes from the community.

The sysadm is the contact point to infra, and is expected to be online on
#asfinfra on a daily basis, or at least check if there are any calls for
attention.

Downtime (excluding emergencies) will be announced on this list (dev@) at
least 72 hours in advance. The appl. admins are expected to inform the
respective user groups.

In order to ensure the highest availability of our servers, we have a
vm-team, globally distributed. Members of the vm-team team are expected to
react on mail alerts (from nagios/circonus) during normal daytime. The
vm-team can:
- stop/start the application
- reboot the server
In case of an incident, please sent an email to the team, so we all know
what happened.

The sysadm decides when to upgrade/change the vm. Help from any member of
the vm-team is appreciated as long as it is coordinated in advance (a
direct mail with response is sufficient).

I suggest myself for sysadm, and jsc, pescetti, arist and imacat for
vm-team. Of course my suggestion depends on the willingness of the
mentioned people.

=

I have on purpose not written anything about what happens if the agreement
is not followed, I assume people who agree to it also follow it. IMHO its
important that the vm-team positively agrees.

If anybody else want the role of sysadm, I will be happy to step down, and
assist as vm-team member.

I wish you all some relaxing days.

rgds
jan I.

Re: wiki.o.o and copyright.

[Andrea Pescetti]

On 20/10/2013 21:40, janI wrote:

On 20 October 2013 20:59, Rob Weir wrote:

http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/AOOW:Copyrights
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Authors_licensing_declaration

it makes sense to include, and even
encourage the Apache License 2.0 on that 2nd page.


I've now edited the page to reflect this. It's problematic to send a 
wiki diff for approval to the list, so please review the diff online:


https://wiki.openoffice.org/w/index.php?title=Authors_licensing_declaration&diff=232476&oldid=177449

and I can of course revert or modify it if it is inaccurate.


I thought we linked from AOO
executable among others readme and license in wiki (cwiki or mwiki), if so
at least these pages should not be Oracle


The README we ship with OpenOffice 4.0.1 indeed has a link to
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/FAQ
I don't see other links around, but the current FAQ section is built 
upon the old one, so we have the same situation Rob was referring to 
(rights were never centralized, so the wiki was not covered by the 
Oracle grant; but on the other hand we will not include wiki pages in a 
release, and a link is always allowed).


Regards,
  Andrea.

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Unused patches

[Rainer Bielefeld]

Hi all,

we have lots of bug reports with unused patches. I think patches should 
be checked as soon as possible and be integrated as soon as possible.


Example:
I found 31 Bugs with unused patches by Kohei Yoshida - I think we can't 
get progress in Calc any cheaper.


And also the other Bugs with unused patches should be checked ...


BTW, I haven't a clue how to use custom search "Attachment is a Patch". 
Can someone tell me?


Best regards


Rainer

Hyperlinks
[1] 



-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Re: Unused patches

[Rob Weir]

On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Rainer Bielefeld
 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> we have lots of bug reports with unused patches. I think patches should be
> checked as soon as possible and be integrated as soon as possible.
>
> Example:
> I found 31 Bugs with unused patches by Kohei Yoshida - I think we can't get
> progress in Calc any cheaper.
>
> And also the other Bugs with unused patches should be checked ...
>

We would probably want to confirm with the original author for any
pre-Apache patches, to make sure that the patch is given under ALv2.
The exception might be those who were Sun/Oracle/IBM employees at the
time.

>
> BTW, I haven't a clue how to use custom search "Attachment is a Patch". Can
> someone tell me?
>

Attachment is a Patch is equal to 1

-Rob

> Best regards
>
>
> Rainer
>
> Hyperlinks
> [1]
> 
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Re: Unused patches

[jan i]

On 22 December 2013 21:13, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Rainer Bielefeld
>  wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > we have lots of bug reports with unused patches. I think patches should
> be
> > checked as soon as possible and be integrated as soon as possible.
> >
> > Example:
> > I found 31 Bugs with unused patches by Kohei Yoshida - I think we can't
> get
> > progress in Calc any cheaper.
> >
> > And also the other Bugs with unused patches should be checked ...
> >
>
> We would probably want to confirm with the original author for any
> pre-Apache patches, to make sure that the patch is given under ALv2.
> The exception might be those who were Sun/Oracle/IBM employees at the
> time.
>
> How about we do it the other way round, we sent a mail the the authors
stating we assume the accept alv2 unless we hear from them within x days  ?

rgds
jan I.


> >
> > BTW, I haven't a clue how to use custom search "Attachment is a Patch".
> Can
> > someone tell me?
> >
>
> Attachment is a Patch is equal to 1
>
> -Rob
>
> > Best regards
> >
> >
> > Rainer
> >
> > Hyperlinks
> > [1]
> > <
> https://issues.apache.org/ooo/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=CONFIRMED&bug_status=ACCEPTED&bug_status=REOPENED&f1=attachments.submitter&f2=attachments.ispatch&list_id=112364&o1=equals&query_format=advanced&v1=kyoshida%40novell.com
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: Unused patches

[David Gerard]

On 22 December 2013 21:12, jan i  wrote:
> On 22 December 2013 21:13, Rob Weir  wrote:

>> We would probably want to confirm with the original author for any
>> pre-Apache patches, to make sure that the patch is given under ALv2.
>> The exception might be those who were Sun/Oracle/IBM employees at the
>> time.

> How about we do it the other way round, we sent a mail the the authors
> stating we assume the accept alv2 unless we hear from them within x days  ?


Because as well as being profoundly rude, that would be a copyright
violation unless you are absolutely sure that (a) every contributor
signed a Sun or Oracle CLA (b) that the patch was accepted under said
CLA (does putting a patch in Bugzilla count as a contribution if it
wasn't accepted?) (c) that copyright on all said patches was covered
by the Oracle grant (as, e.g., the CWSes may not be).


- d.

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Re: Unused patches

[Andrea Pescetti]

Rob Weir wrote:

We would probably want to confirm with the original author for any
pre-Apache patches, to make sure that the patch is given under ALv2.
The exception might be those who were Sun/Oracle/IBM employees at the
time.


Could we try to have a clearer picture here, limited to patches that are 
attached to Bugzilla issues?


Patches by then-Sun/Oracle employees belong to Sun/Oracle, but they 
haven't necessarily been explicitly granted to Apache. Or do we have 
permission to use all patches by Sun and Oracle employees in Bugzilla? I 
remember this was discussed but I can't find a conclusive answer.


Patches by then-IBM employees, as far as I know, have not been granted 
to Apache by IBM.


And there's the group of people who signed a copyright agreement with 
Sun: these are not Sun employees but I don't see reasons to consider 
their patches different than those by Sun/Oracle employees:

http://www.openoffice.org/copyright/copyrightapproved.html

If we manage to get some safe guidelines on what patches we can reuse 
this would simplify integration a lot.


Regards,
  Andrea.

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Re: Reminder and blog post about FOSDEM 2014 talk submissions

[Andrea Pescetti]

On 21/12/2013 jan i wrote:

Will you present a total AOO list tomorrow (after timeout) ? would be
interesting to see if we have overlaps and if the list is too long.
I have no feeling for how the selection process will run.


People interested in this should subscribe to the dedicated (privately 
archived) mailing list: https://lists.fosdem.org/listinfo/office-devroom


A limitation of the system we use this year (with respect to the wiki) 
is that submissions are private, so I'm not sure it is fair to share all 
of them on a public list now, while after approval they will obviously 
be all public.


Tomorrow (Monday) I'll send a list of received submissions to that list. 
Ultimately it will the responsibility of Italo and me to formally select 
the submissions in the system, but of course we will contact the 
respective developer groups (and I see nothing wrong with OpenOffice 
submitters being part of the group that will judge the OpenOffice 
submissions: people won't evaluate their own submission but may still be 
very helpful in evaluating the other submissions, and in suggesting 
merges and changes). Accepted speakers will be notified by January 5th.


Regards,
  Andrea.

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Re: Unused patches

[Rob Weir]

On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>> We would probably want to confirm with the original author for any
>> pre-Apache patches, to make sure that the patch is given under ALv2.
>> The exception might be those who were Sun/Oracle/IBM employees at the
>> time.
>
>
> Could we try to have a clearer picture here, limited to patches that are
> attached to Bugzilla issues?
>
> Patches by then-Sun/Oracle employees belong to Sun/Oracle, but they haven't
> necessarily been explicitly granted to Apache. Or do we have permission to
> use all patches by Sun and Oracle employees in Bugzilla? I remember this was
> discussed but I can't find a conclusive answer.
>
> Patches by then-IBM employees, as far as I know, have not been granted to
> Apache by IBM.
>

For both of the above scenarios I was speaking from the perspective of
an IBMer.  That allows me to make an additional set of assumptions
that might not be true of other developers.  But it is best to discuss
in the context of a specific patch.

Regards,

-Rob

> And there's the group of people who signed a copyright agreement with Sun:
> these are not Sun employees but I don't see reasons to consider their
> patches different than those by Sun/Oracle employees:
> http://www.openoffice.org/copyright/copyrightapproved.html
>
> If we manage to get some safe guidelines on what patches we can reuse this
> would simplify integration a lot.
>
> Regards,
>   Andrea.
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Re: [LAZY CONSENSUS] maintenance of ooo-wiki2-vm.a.o and ooo-forums.a.o

[Rob Weir]

On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 11:27 AM, jan i  wrote:
> Hi
>
> based on a polite push from a good infra colleague,  I have decided to
> present yet another proposal for maintaining ooo-wiki2-vm.a.o and
> ooo-forums.a.o (I already maintain translate-vm2.a.o since this is a shared
> service).
>
> This will be proposal number 6, therefore I have allowed myself to cut all
> the indirect language. The last proposal was not rejected, but another
> admin and 2 other PMC spoke directly against it, as a consequence I saw it
> as impossible to implement.
>
> I ask for lazy consensus before january 2 2014. Meaning anyone who have
> anything against the proposal please speak up before that date. Since the
> proposal has a direct influence on the vm-team, the proposal needs a
> positive indication from the members of this group in order to be decided.
>
> = proposal =
>
> Wiki.o.o is maintained by wiki users given administrator status. This
> includes monitoring users/submissions and watching/controlling spam.
>
> The single forums on forum.o.o is maintained/moderated by forum users given
> administrator status. This includes activating new users, monitoring
> users/submissions and watching/controlling spam.
>
> All request for changes in the application (mediawiki, php2bb)
> configuration, like new images, new plugins or general setup, must be
> mailed to this list (dev@), with a lazy consensus decision of min. 72
> hours. The sysadm will without further instruction implement the changes as
> soon as possible (depending on sysadm availability) after the decision is
> final.
>

In the case of phpBB changes, it would probably make sense, from the
forum perspective, for the person requesting the change to post a link
to the dev list thread to the forum as well, in the Site Feedback
section?   I think we want the dev list to be the place where the
discussion happens, but it would be fair to give notice on the forums
as well.


> The sysadm has the responsibility to keep the vms including applications
> updated and configured in accordance with the infra guidelines and be
> responsive to wishes from the community.
>
> The sysadm is the contact point to infra, and is expected to be online on
> #asfinfra on a daily basis, or at least check if there are any calls for
> attention.
>
> Downtime (excluding emergencies) will be announced on this list (dev@) at
> least 72 hours in advance. The appl. admins are expected to inform the
> respective user groups.
>
> In order to ensure the highest availability of our servers, we have a
> vm-team, globally distributed. Members of the vm-team team are expected to
> react on mail alerts (from nagios/circonus) during normal daytime. The
> vm-team can:
> - stop/start the application
> - reboot the server
> In case of an incident, please sent an email to the team, so we all know
> what happened.
>

Does this require a vm-team email alias?  or would it be handled informally?

> The sysadm decides when to upgrade/change the vm. Help from any member of
> the vm-team is appreciated as long as it is coordinated in advance (a
> direct mail with response is sufficient).
>
> I suggest myself for sysadm, and jsc, pescetti, arist and imacat for
> vm-team. Of course my suggestion depends on the willingness of the
> mentioned people.
>

Might be worth saying how new sysadms and vm-team members are added.
I assume both require approval of the PMC.  Maybe new sysadmins
require approval from Infra as well?

> =
>
> I have on purpose not written anything about what happens if the agreement
> is not followed, I assume people who agree to it also follow it. IMHO its
> important that the vm-team positively agrees.
>
> If anybody else want the role of sysadm, I will be happy to step down, and
> assist as vm-team member.
>

Are you thinking that the sysadmin role can be only a single person?
Or would it be reasonable to have more than one, so there is always a
backup?  Having more than one requires additional coordination, of
course.

Thanks for writing this up (again!).  I appreciate the professional
approach to maintaining services like these that are essential for so
many of our users.

In any case, although I have some thoughts I shared above, I'm +1 for
the proposal overall.  I wish I could offer more than moral support
for this effort, but this is not where my skills are.

Regards,

-Rob

> I wish you all some relaxing days.
>
> rgds
> jan I.

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Re: [LAZY CONSENSUS] maintenance of ooo-wiki2-vm.a.o and ooo-forums.a.o

[jan i]

On 23 December 2013 00:20, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 11:27 AM, jan i  wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > based on a polite push from a good infra colleague,  I have decided to
> > present yet another proposal for maintaining ooo-wiki2-vm.a.o and
> > ooo-forums.a.o (I already maintain translate-vm2.a.o since this is a
> shared
> > service).
> >
> > This will be proposal number 6, therefore I have allowed myself to cut
> all
> > the indirect language. The last proposal was not rejected, but another
> > admin and 2 other PMC spoke directly against it, as a consequence I saw
> it
> > as impossible to implement.
> >
> > I ask for lazy consensus before january 2 2014. Meaning anyone who have
> > anything against the proposal please speak up before that date. Since the
> > proposal has a direct influence on the vm-team, the proposal needs a
> > positive indication from the members of this group in order to be
> decided.
> >
> > = proposal =
> >
> > Wiki.o.o is maintained by wiki users given administrator status. This
> > includes monitoring users/submissions and watching/controlling spam.
> >
> > The single forums on forum.o.o is maintained/moderated by forum users
> given
> > administrator status. This includes activating new users, monitoring
> > users/submissions and watching/controlling spam.
> >
> > All request for changes in the application (mediawiki, php2bb)
> > configuration, like new images, new plugins or general setup, must be
> > mailed to this list (dev@), with a lazy consensus decision of min. 72
> > hours. The sysadm will without further instruction implement the changes
> as
> > soon as possible (depending on sysadm availability) after the decision is
> > final.
> >
>
> In the case of phpBB changes, it would probably make sense, from the
> forum perspective, for the person requesting the change to post a link
> to the dev list thread to the forum as well, in the Site Feedback
> section?   I think we want the dev list to be the place where the
> discussion happens, but it would be fair to give notice on the forums
> as well.
>

then the forum admins will hopefully take it to dev@ where we can agree on
it. Lazy consensus can only happen on ML and its important for me to be
able to trace why changes are made (just think of the logo change without
consensus).



>
>
> > The sysadm has the responsibility to keep the vms including applications
> > updated and configured in accordance with the infra guidelines and be
> > responsive to wishes from the community.
> >
> > The sysadm is the contact point to infra, and is expected to be online on
> > #asfinfra on a daily basis, or at least check if there are any calls for
> > attention.
> >
> > Downtime (excluding emergencies) will be announced on this list (dev@)
> at
> > least 72 hours in advance. The appl. admins are expected to inform the
> > respective user groups.
> >
> > In order to ensure the highest availability of our servers, we have a
> > vm-team, globally distributed. Members of the vm-team team are expected
> to
> > react on mail alerts (from nagios/circonus) during normal daytime. The
> > vm-team can:
> > - stop/start the application
> > - reboot the server
> > In case of an incident, please sent an email to the team, so we all know
> > what happened.
> >
>
> Does this require a vm-team email alias?  or would it be handled
> informally?
>

I cannot speak for others, but I have a simple group in my mail client, I
dont need an alias. I might for formulated that a bit sloppy. The idea is
if a vm-team member e.g. reboots a server then an email explaining what
happened will be good.

I would prefer (but have no strong opinion) that users of the services use
dev@, otherwise it might be seen as a suppport channel. In case we make the
addr. public, we need a ML for tracking purposes.


>
> > The sysadm decides when to upgrade/change the vm. Help from any member of
> > the vm-team is appreciated as long as it is coordinated in advance (a
> > direct mail with response is sufficient).
> >
> > I suggest myself for sysadm, and jsc, pescetti, arist and imacat for
> > vm-team. Of course my suggestion depends on the willingness of the
> > mentioned people.
> >
>
> Might be worth saying how new sysadms and vm-team members are added.
> I assume both require approval of the PMC.  Maybe new sysadmins
> require approval from Infra as well?
>

vm-team members are in my opinion added if the other vm-team members dont
object, but I have nothing against a formal PMC approval.

sysadm, require approval of the PMC, otherwise infra will not consider
giving them karma. But let me be very explicit, there are more than enough
sysadms. Lets first get this to work, then we can start considering what
happens if I get hit by a car.


>
> > =
> >
> > I have on purpose not written anything about what happens if the
> agreement
> > is not followed, I assume people who agree to it also follow it. IMHO its
> > important that the vm-team positivel

I can't edit in cwiki.apache.org , Can someone help me add "edit" right for me

[Liu Ping]

Username:doneyourself

Re: Merry Christmas and a happy new year

[Yuzhen Fan]

Merry X-Mas and Happy New Year to everyone!

Regards,
Yu Zhen


On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 3:56 AM, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:

> I also wish everybody Merry X-Mas & A Happy New Year. :-)
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
> Am 12/20/2013 04:05 PM, schrieb Jürgen Schmidt:
>
>  Hi,
>>
>> I will go into Christmas holidays today and will not read my emails
>> regularly, I plan to take a real break ;-)
>>
>> I wish you all merry Christmas and a happy new year!
>>
>> Juergen
>>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: createRegistryServiceFactory: "cannot get uno environments!"

[Herbert Duerr]

Hi Απόστολος,

Απόστολος Συρόπουλος wrote:
> I spooke too soon. After adding
> 
> COM:=GCC
> COMNAME:=gcc3
> 
> into main/solenv/inc/tg_compv.mk
> 
> the required library, that is, libgcc3_uno.so, was build
> and compilation of i18npool finished successfully.

Wonderful. Getting there means that both the dmake and the gbuild
systems worked and the UNO bridge on this platform is doing alright.
These are all critical steps on new (or occassionally unmaintained)
platforms. With a bit of luck you should be able to build the remainder
of AOO and have it working as a special Christmas gift ;-)

If you needed to update any of the makefiles to make it build I suggest
you create an issue for it and attach the patches there.

I'll be (mostly) offline for the rest of the year.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

Herbert

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org

Re: Using system boost 1.54 (was Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Building comphelper)

[Herbert Duerr]

Kay Schenk wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 6:04 AM, Herbert Duerr  wrote:
>> [...]
>> In your installation the hash template is apparently already mapped to the
>> std namespace, so us trying to map it there again causes trouble. To verify
>> this idea you could comment out the
>> using STLP4_EMUBASE_NS::hash;
>> lines in booth main/stlport/systemstl/hash_* files.
>>
> 
> a short update on my progress...
> 
> The suggestion above worked for that problem...

Wonderful! This means some parts (or all?) of boost's tr1 headers are
already directly into the std namespace. And they are of course also
available in the std::tr1 namespace where they come from. Please have a
look at the preprocessor output. To see what the compiler sees to achive
this.

>>  [...]
>>> so I don't know if we need to do something about BOOST_HASH_NO_EXTENSIONS
>>>
>>
>> That's a good idea. If we knew that the hash template was already
>> available in the std namespace then we wouldn't have to map it there
>> ourselves. Maybe one of these two boost configuration defines (or maybe the
>> BOOST_HASH_TR1_HASH define?) allow us to determine what your boost
>> installation needs to get us a nice hash template in the std namespace.
>> [...]
> 
> I'm still working on the errors generated from the latter area...

The preprocessor output could help you identify which source file
already mapped the containers directly into the std namespace. If the
responsible lines are known then figuring out which defines where
responsible for it should be easy.

> Thank you for all your help.

You're very welcome!

I'll be (mostly) offline for the rest of the year.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

Herbert

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org