Re: [discussion] Buildbot standard a.o or our own.

2013-01-01 Thread janI 
I did know that we use the machines for building:

http://ci.apache.org/projects/openoffice/

But it seemed to me we could integrate deeper using e.g. continum and
sonar, to get better monitoring and reporting. I might be wrong but do we
e.g.
- get automatic mail when a build fails ?
- have a statistic over our build through time ?

I could also see an enhancement where we run an analysis of which part of
the code changes most, compared to which part of the code has most reported
bugs. I am used to that type of reports because if gives a feeling of the
weak spots in the code.

I think the job being done today is great, and was in my own (obviously not
too elegant) way just trying to see if we could improve.

Jan I.


On 31 December 2012 22:00, Dave Fisher  wrote:

> Jan,
>
> On Dec 31, 2012, at 12:11 PM, jan iversen wrote:
>
> > excuse me I did NOT say that anybody did a bad job! on the contrary I
> > think a lot of people do a real big job  I simply try to make the job
> > easier. but I do understand when a polite question is unwanted.
>
> How did my answer to Andrew imply any of the above?
>
> >
> > sorry for suggestion a possible improvement that will not happen again.
>
> Please keep asking questions. You suggested that we use one of the ASF
> supported tools like Continuum. Please see
> http://www.apache.org/dev/services.html#build which lists, Continuum,
> Buildbot, Gump and Jenkins.
>
> Andrew answered that we are using one of ASF supported tools - Buildbot. A
> lot of projects use it - http://ci.apache.org/builders Note that the
> Apache CMS also uses Buildbot.
>
> I was thanking Andrew explicitly because he is generally silent in his
> work.
>
> Happy New Year!
>
> And THANK YOU JAN for your hard work! Your contributions are appreciated!
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> >
> > Jan i
> > Den 31/12/2012 19.23 skrev "Dave Fisher" :
> >
> >> Hi Andrew,
> >>
> >> On Dec 31, 2012, at 9:57 AM, Andrew Rist wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On 12/31/2012 2:09 AM, janI wrote:
>  Is there a reason why we use our own buildbot and not one of the infra
>  supported ones, like e.g. Continuum.
> >>> We /are/ using the ASF buildbot infrastructure.  So I'm kind of
> confused
> >> by the question.
> >>> check http://ci.apache.org/projects/openoffice/
> >>> Also, the decision to go with buildbot, vs maven or something else in
> >> the ASF ci quiver was due to the complexity of our build.
> >>> Add to that the strange gymnastics we have to do on Windows (Herbert
> >> will attest to the strangeness!!) it is pretty much the only option as I
> >> see it.
> >>
> >> You and the rest of the buildbot team do a tremendous job!
> >>
> >> Best Regards,
> >> Dave
> >>
> >>>
> >>> A.
> 
>  Sharing servers with other and having other people maintain the build
>  routines should be to our advantage.
> 
>  Or do I see life in the wrong light ?
> 
>  rgds
>  Jan I
> 
> >>>
> >>
> >>
>
>

Re: first look at a scrolling News column...

2013-01-01 Thread Marcus (OOo) 

Am 01/01/2013 12:06 AM, schrieb Kay Schenk:

Well, I have finally put up a mockup of what a scrolling News column on our
home page would look like.

This is in the "test" area on staging at the moment.

http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/test/

This required editing changes to the index page and a minor styling change
for the home.css styles along with using an ssi for the news instead of two
areas.

For this mockup, I did take out a LOT of old news.

Anyway, see what you think. I find the scroll bars a bit ugly but we may be
able to pretty them up somehow.

This will save the hassle we currently do with the News items however.


Thanks for the news improvement. I also think that the scrollbar is not 
too bad. Otherwise you have to invent a complete new design for 
scrollbars and to tell the broser to use this instead of the default. 
And this would be an effort which is (IMHO) not worthwhile - if it's 
just for this one.


So, just keep this one. :-)

Marcus

Re: 30 million downloads, year end blog post

2013-01-01 Thread Marcus (OOo) 

Am 12/31/2012 08:00 PM, schrieb Rory O'Farrell:

The download count on main D/L page ought be updated to show the 30+ million.


I've done the update.

Marcus

Re: Windows 8 compatibility

2013-01-01 Thread Marcus (OOo) 

Am 12/30/2012 06:33 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:

On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 7:59 PM, F C. Costero  wrote:

There is a steady stream of questions on the Google Questions list about
AOO compatibility with Windows 8. Some mention a problem with installation
and others merely ask if AOO will work on that OS. No details of the
installation problems have been provided, so I have no reason to believe
there is a technical problem. Also, I haven't seen much traffic on the en
or es forums on this issue. However, it seems the download pages could be
clearer about compatibility. This one:
http://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/source/sys_reqs_aoo34.html
doesn't mention Windows 8 at all. Is there any reason not to include
Windows 8 on that page?



Windows 8 was not officially released yet when AOO 3.4.1 was released.
   But we tested with the preview version of Windows 8 and AOO 3.4.1
appeared to work well.


Even when this is not much of content (not what you wrote but in general 
;-) ), I've updated the above mentioned webpage to indicate that AOO 
3.4.1 can be used with Windows 8.


Marcus




So the question might be:  what level of testing do we require before
listing Windows 8 as "supported"?

-Rob


Best regards,
Francis

Re: first look at a scrolling News column...

2013-01-01 Thread Rob Weir 
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 9:56 PM, Kay.schenk  wrote:
>
> Well...unfortunately, the scroll bars don't show up on my phone :( Better 
> techniques needed.
>

Another option is not to maintain news stories on the website.
Instead we could use the blog for that, since it supports this kind of
thing naturally, keeping history, etc.  Then we just need the ability
to suck in the N-most recent (where 3 Sent from my Samsung smartphone on AT&T
>
>  Original message 
> Subject:RE: first look at a scrolling News column...
> From:"Dennis E. Hamilton" 
> To:dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Cc:
>
> The scroll bars aren't that bad.  They will work reasonably well working with 
> a touch screen/pad too.
>
> One suggestion: It's helpful if news items are always be dated [;<).
>
> - Dennis
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.sch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 15:06
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: first look at a scrolling News column...
>
> Well, I have finally put up a mockup of what a scrolling News column on our
> home page would look like.
>
> This is in the "test" area on staging at the moment.
>
> http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/test/
>
> This required editing changes to the index page and a minor styling change
> for the home.css styles along with using an ssi for the news instead of two
> areas.
>
> For this mockup, I did take out a LOT of old news.
>
> Anyway, see what you think. I find the scroll bars a bit ugly but we may be
> able to pretty them up somehow.
>
> This will save the hassle we currently do with the News items however.
>
> --
> 
> MzK
>
> "No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted."
>  --
> Aesop
>

Re: Viewer for OpenOffice on iOS

2013-01-01 Thread Louis Suárez-Potts 
Top Post:
I wrote to the company—one guy—and politely asked him to abide by Apache's (and 
more particularly AOO's) provisions. I did this via LinkedIn, as a direct email 
to him didn't work. In my note, I cc'd the PMC private list. No news yet!—and I 
wrote him last year, too! :-)

-louis


On 12-12-31, at 14:25 , Louis Suárez-Potts  wrote:

> 
> On 12-12-31, at 12:05 , Rob Weir  wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Louis Suárez-Potts  
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 12-12-31, at 11:53 , Rob Weir  wrote:
>>> 
 On Dec 31, 2012, at 7:45 AM, Armin Le Grand  wrote:
 
> Hi List,
> 
> my wife showed me the following link which leads to the AppStore, to an 
> AOO ODF format raeder application nicely using the AOO logo, link is
> 
> https://itunes.apple.com/de/app/ooreader/id480844649?mt=8
 
 
 
 Interesting. But does anyone recall giving permission to use the logo?
 The way they are using it appears (to me at least) a relationship
 with the AOO project which is unwarranted.
 
>>> I checked if we'd granted them permission to use OpenOffice.org logo etc 
>>> back in the day but came up with no record of that. (It would be in the 
>>> logos@ openofficedotorg list, a private one but archived, or was, once.) 
>>> BML Solutions is evidently based in Montreal, thus, as the loonie flies, 
>>> not far from me. I can contact them and ask them about this, as well as 
>>> their general work, and ask them to work with us, as we require all to do.
>>> 
>> 
>> Do you get any sense of whether their app involves any AOO code at
>> all?   IMHO, it would be hard to justify giving permission to use the
>> logo if the app involved neither the community nor the code.
> 
> I don't know about the code, haven't checked (busy). I was simply going to 
> ask the developer, and point him to the published principles governing use of 
> the trademark. I can cc this or any list when I do that. 
> 
> louis
> 
>

Re: Calc user guide Chapter 6 - German translation READY NOW

2013-01-01 Thread Raphael Bircher 

Hi

It would be interesting to write this also to the German Mailing List 
users...@openoffice.apache.org Nice to see more german Native language 
speachers.


Greetings Raphael

Am 01.01.2013 13:54, schrieb 口 海:

Hi Andrea and OOo-Team,

happy New Year for the OOo - Project and best wishes !

As I had announced some months ago, I have translated several chapters 
of the Calc 3.2 - user guide into German.
This chapter of the user guide is (to my knowledge) not yet translated 
into German.


PLEASE help me to get it published on the OOo-website - as it would 
reward the work that went into it !!


I am working on several other chapters of the user guide which have so 
far not yet been translated into German and I would like to receive 
help these upcoming weeks / months to get them published on the 
OOo-website etc etc , too.


I am available in case further corrections etc etc are necessary.

Best wishes


Heiko Strauss




> Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2012 14:36:51 +0100
> From: pesce...@apache.org
> To: ooo-...@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: old business...old OpenOffice domain names registered 
by Oracle (primarily)

>
> On 02/11/2012 Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> > Actually these domains are still there: I tested 5 random ones from
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-4906 and as Dave wrote 
they
> > appear to have been (auto)renewed. They do not resolve, but WHOIS 
shows

> > that they still exist and still belong to Oracle.
> > Which means that https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-4906 can
> > progress normally with the transfer of ownership of those domains 
to the

> > ASF. I asked on the issue page details on the next steps.
>
> I've seen no developments on this old issue. This is something that the
> project can only marginally control, since it requires a handover of 
the
> domain names from Oracle to r...@apache.org ; did the discussion 
between

> Oracle and root even start? Refer to the issue page (link above) for
> more information.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.

Re: first look at a scrolling News column...

2013-01-01 Thread Carl Marcum 

On 12/31/2012 06:06 PM, Kay Schenk wrote:

Well, I have finally put up a mockup of what a scrolling News column on our
home page would look like.

This is in the "test" area on staging at the moment.

http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/test/

This required editing changes to the index page and a minor styling change
for the home.css styles along with using an ssi for the news instead of two
areas.

For this mockup, I did take out a LOT of old news.

Anyway, see what you think. I find the scroll bars a bit ugly but we may be
able to pretty them up somehow.

This will save the hassle we currently do with the News items however.



+1

I like it.

Thanks for work.
Carl

[Mwiki] No CAPCHA images

2013-01-01 Thread TJ Frazier 

Jan,

We have a complaint on the wiki[1] that CAPCHA images are not appearing.

[1] 

/tj/

Re: Calc user guide Chapter 6 - German translation READY NOW

2013-01-01 Thread TJ Frazier 

On 1/1/2013 10:11, Raphael Bircher wrote:

Hi

It would be interesting to write this also to the German Mailing List
users...@openoffice.apache.org Nice to see more german Native language
speachers.

Greetings Raphael

Am 01.01.2013 13:54, schrieb 口 海:

Hi Andrea and OOo-Team,

happy New Year for the OOo - Project and best wishes !

As I had announced some months ago, I have translated several chapters
of the Calc 3.2 - user guide into German.
This chapter of the user guide is (to my knowledge) not yet translated
into German.

PLEASE help me to get it published on the OOo-website - as it would
reward the work that went into it !!

I am working on several other chapters of the user guide which have so
far not yet been translated into German and I would like to receive
help these upcoming weeks / months to get them published on the
OOo-website etc etc , too.

I am available in case further corrections etc etc are necessary.

Best wishes


Heiko Strauss


Hi, Heiko, Raphael,

Can we get some feedback from German-speakers that this is a 
good-quality translation?


The mechanics of publication are simple: upload to a file (use the same 
name as the document), and add a link on the DE version of the wiki 
Documentation page. I am prepared to do these steps, if nobody objects.


AOO policy is that new material shall be under ALv2, but this 
translation is presumably under some CC license. It seems reasonable to 
me to make an exception for new material about old software.


I will wait at least 72 hours for feedback on either or both points.

/tj/

Re: [PROPOSAL] New Apache OpenOffice 4 logo proposals...

2013-01-01 Thread Dave Fisher 
Hi Michael,

I like the logo - a lot.

I have a problem with the video that is significant. You are using the same 
music that Microsoft is using for its Surface Advertising on TV. Also, at the 
end you are using a non-standard Apache Software Foundation logo and feather 
placement.

Although we want people and institutions to use Apache OpenOffice and not 
Microsoft Office, we cannot be subversive about it.

Please keep up with your work and contributions, just be careful that you 
aren't appropriating others images and music.

For fun here is a more original version of the music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYyzBbWPV5w

Best Regards and Happy New Year,
Dave

On Dec 26, 2012, at 8:07 PM, Michael Acevedo wrote:

> Greetings to all in the mailing list and those in this AOO Logo Proposal
> subject,
> 
> In this email, I would like to mention that I have added two new logo
> proposals to the Apache OpenOffice Logo exploration wiki article. Now let
> me explain what this new logo it's all about.
> 
> The new logo design does away with the orb and changes it for a gull ring
> that rests under a blue background which itself rests on circles which are
> inspired on the Adobe Flex logo multicolor scheme. The new gull ring while
> being new, retains the familiar circular shape of the current OpenOffice
> logo, but at the same time is a new take that pays respect to the orb. All
> of these elements are wrapped in a modern black gradient icon than makes
> the logo stand out. Furthermore, the new logo actually changes the look of
> the word OpenOffice into a more modern non-capitalized "openoffice" word
> design (also an inspiration from the Adobe Flex project logo). The latter
> serves the function of highlighting Apache as the owner of the project
> (whose name is in capital letters), yet the non-capitalized "openoffice"
> names takes presence by being written in a larger size font. Overall, the
> new logo design is simple, clean, and modern.
> 
> Now that I have given a sense of the new logo, I would like to show you a
> reveal video:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC-tOuhTm9Y
> 
> But there is one last detail, which actually is a testament to the power of
> OpenOffice. The detail is that the logo that you see at the end of the
> video was 99% made in Apache OpenOffice Draw.
> 
> Hope you liked the logo and the reveal video.
> 
> Happy Holidays!
> 
> You can see the formal proposal in the Cwiki at Apache:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.x+-+Logo+Explorations
> 
> 
> On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 11:20 PM, Michael Acevedo  wrote:
> 
>> Greetings Kevin, I would not mind posting the logos to that AOO UX wiki.
>> Thing is I don't know where it is or whether it is on the cwiki or mwiki
>> (if it is on the latter, I need to request an account).
>> 
>> Let me know.
>> 
>> 
>> On Saturday, December 22, 2012, Kevin Grignon wrote:
>> 
>>> Michael,
>>> 
>>> Great work. Design is very iterative. Keep pushing!
>>> 
>>> Using the design explorations is a great way to stimulate a conversation
>>> which can help us better understand the requirements. Perhaps we could
>>> harvest the criteria for success in the thread and capture in the wiki
>>> 
>>> Then we can make the design review process less subjective by having
>>> people review design explorations relative to stated goals.
>>> 
>>> Also, the mailing list is tough place to review designs, can you post the
>>> design explorations to the AOO UX wiki?
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Kevin
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Dec 23, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Michael Acevedo  wrote:
>>> 
 I think I've come up with something that is simplistic on the eye but
 beautiful an lively.
 
 Still working on it but stay tuned.
 
 
 On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 10:43 PM, Michael Acevedo 
>>> wrote:
 
> RGB,
> 
> I see the ring as something different. The blue to me represents the
>>> open
> blue sky, and the ring around it as a frame to an opening of an open
>>> world.
> 
> 
> On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 8:16 AM, RGB ES  wrote:
> 
>> 2012/12/22 janI 
>> 
>>> I am no designer, but I have tried to make a suggestion to better
>> explain
>>> what I mean.
>>> 
>>> The current proposals all have squares / circles etc. and apart from
>>> the
>>> original similarity with windows8 that has a special signal value.
>>> 
>>> A surface (square/circle etc) especially with a border, signal:
>>> - limitation or positive a product that fullfills a single purpose
>>> - closeness or positive a product the specialize in one function
>>> 
>>> AOO is in my mind much more, we are open at levels where normal
>>> products
>>> can only dream to go:
>>> - AOO is used in nearly every corner of the earth.
>>> - AOO is open for translation to no matter how small a language group
>>> - AOO is open for developers who want to hack their own specialized
>>> versions
>>> - AOO is open for repackagin

Re: 30 million downloads, year end blog post

2013-01-01 Thread Rob Weir 
On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:
> Am 12/31/2012 08:00 PM, schrieb Rory O'Farrell:
>
>> The download count on main D/L page ought be updated to show the 30+
>> million.
>
>
> I've done the update.
>

Thanks.  And I've updated the charts now:
http://www.openoffice.org/stats/downloads.html

The final count for 2012 was:  30,687,795 downloads.

I predict we will more than double this in 2013, due to:

1) Being able to count downloads for the full year.  (AOO 3.4 was not
available until May in 2012 and I did not include OOo 3.3.0 download
in the counts.)

2) Greater language coverage, starting very soon with the release of
more 3.4.1 languages, and even more with 4.0.

3) Exciting new features in AOO 4.0

Regards,

-Rob

> Marcus

Starting Introduction to Contributing to Apache OpenOffice Module

2013-01-01 Thread MrGreen 

Hi,

I am Aamir, a 5th semester undergraduate student of Software engineering.
As a student of Software Engineering I have made many toy programs as
part of assignments, Now I want to work on some real world problems.
From past two weeks, I was thinking about joining some open source project.
So, Here I am to join Open-office.
I can program in C++, JAVA and PHP.

Any guidelines, suggestions will be most welcomed.
you can give me any suggestions etc, related to computer science
and software engineering that will help me in real world.

Thanks.

Muhammad Aamir,
Pakistan.

What does "supported" mean for us?

2013-01-01 Thread Rob Weir 
When a commercial software vendor says a configuration is "supported"
it means something, typically that to the extent the software license
includes an entitlement to support, that the vendor will provide that
service for that configuration.  So saying something is "supported" is
essentially an obligation.

With a volunteer-run, open source project, "supported" cannot mean
quite the same thing.   We're not obligated, in any contractual sense,
to provide anyone with anything.  That's the nature of a volunteer
effort.

However, users and organizations considering OpenOffice will naturally
think in terms of "support", even if they user that term loosely.  We
use that term as well, in our release notes, etc.  But I think we
ought to have a more precise definition of what we mean when we say
something is "supported", in order to avoid any confusion.   This
question has come up recently, with regards to the status of Windows
8, where that OS had not been released at the time AOO 3.4.1 was
released.

So here's a strawman proposal for what "supported" means for us.

1) "Supported" is a statement we make about a specific version of AOO
used with a specific platform, e.g., AOO 3.4.1 with Windows XP SP3 or
AOO 3.4 with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.

2) "Supported" means we encourage use of AOO in that configuration.
We have high confidence that the combination is stable, that it works
well and is safe.

3) Our confidence in stating something is supported should have a
solid basis in testing.  Something is not "supported" by us guessing
it should work.  It is supported only after we have successfully
completed testing of that release with that platform.  We probably
should define exactly what level of testing is required.

4) "Supported" also implies that the supported configuration is
sufficiently available and there is sufficient expertise that we have
confidence that users will have a high quality experience seeking
support on the forums and user list.

5) "Supported" also implies that we stand behind that release and will
take necessary steps to correct *critical* bugs, especially security
flaws, via rapidly produced point releases where necessary.

Note that these are all expectations that a user might have, though
any given user might think that "supported" means only a subset of
these.

What we probably really need is more of a lifecycle statement,
including when support for a configuration ends.

-Rob

Re: What does "supported" mean for us?

2013-01-01 Thread janI 
+1 to your definition of "supported", it is funny I just had somewhat the
same discussion today.

Regarding lifecycle, I would like to suggest that we only support the
latest release, otherwise we stretch our resources pretty thin.  We can of
course have a statement that we in general will have a look at critical
bugs, but they will only be solved in the latest release.

rgds
Jan I.


On 1 January 2013 17:59, Rob Weir  wrote:

> When a commercial software vendor says a configuration is "supported"
> it means something, typically that to the extent the software license
> includes an entitlement to support, that the vendor will provide that
> service for that configuration.  So saying something is "supported" is
> essentially an obligation.
>
> With a volunteer-run, open source project, "supported" cannot mean
> quite the same thing.   We're not obligated, in any contractual sense,
> to provide anyone with anything.  That's the nature of a volunteer
> effort.
>
> However, users and organizations considering OpenOffice will naturally
> think in terms of "support", even if they user that term loosely.  We
> use that term as well, in our release notes, etc.  But I think we
> ought to have a more precise definition of what we mean when we say
> something is "supported", in order to avoid any confusion.   This
> question has come up recently, with regards to the status of Windows
> 8, where that OS had not been released at the time AOO 3.4.1 was
> released.
>
> So here's a strawman proposal for what "supported" means for us.
>
> 1) "Supported" is a statement we make about a specific version of AOO
> used with a specific platform, e.g., AOO 3.4.1 with Windows XP SP3 or
> AOO 3.4 with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.
>
> 2) "Supported" means we encourage use of AOO in that configuration.
> We have high confidence that the combination is stable, that it works
> well and is safe.
>
> 3) Our confidence in stating something is supported should have a
> solid basis in testing.  Something is not "supported" by us guessing
> it should work.  It is supported only after we have successfully
> completed testing of that release with that platform.  We probably
> should define exactly what level of testing is required.
>
> 4) "Supported" also implies that the supported configuration is
> sufficiently available and there is sufficient expertise that we have
> confidence that users will have a high quality experience seeking
> support on the forums and user list.
>
> 5) "Supported" also implies that we stand behind that release and will
> take necessary steps to correct *critical* bugs, especially security
> flaws, via rapidly produced point releases where necessary.
>
> Note that these are all expectations that a user might have, though
> any given user might think that "supported" means only a subset of
> these.
>
> What we probably really need is more of a lifecycle statement,
> including when support for a configuration ends.
>
> -Rob
>

Re: What does "supported" mean for us?

2013-01-01 Thread Rory O'Farrell 
On Tue, 1 Jan 2013 18:06:38 +0100
janI  wrote:

> +1 to your definition of "supported", it is funny I just had somewhat the
> same discussion today.
> 
> Regarding lifecycle, I would like to suggest that we only support the
> latest release, otherwise we stretch our resources pretty thin.  We can of
> course have a statement that we in general will have a look at critical
> bugs, but they will only be solved in the latest release.
> 
> rgds
> Jan I.
> 
> 
> On 1 January 2013 17:59, Rob Weir  wrote:
> 
> > When a commercial software vendor says a configuration is "supported"
> > it means something, typically that to the extent the software license
> > includes an entitlement to support, that the vendor will provide that
> > service for that configuration.  So saying something is "supported" is
> > essentially an obligation.
> >
> > With a volunteer-run, open source project, "supported" cannot mean
> > quite the same thing.   We're not obligated, in any contractual sense,
> > to provide anyone with anything.  That's the nature of a volunteer
> > effort.
> >
> > However, users and organizations considering OpenOffice will naturally
> > think in terms of "support", even if they user that term loosely.  We
> > use that term as well, in our release notes, etc.  But I think we
> > ought to have a more precise definition of what we mean when we say
> > something is "supported", in order to avoid any confusion.   This
> > question has come up recently, with regards to the status of Windows
> > 8, where that OS had not been released at the time AOO 3.4.1 was
> > released.
> >
> > So here's a strawman proposal for what "supported" means for us.
> >
> > 1) "Supported" is a statement we make about a specific version of AOO
> > used with a specific platform, e.g., AOO 3.4.1 with Windows XP SP3 or
> > AOO 3.4 with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.
> >
> > 2) "Supported" means we encourage use of AOO in that configuration.
> > We have high confidence that the combination is stable, that it works
> > well and is safe.
> >
> > 3) Our confidence in stating something is supported should have a
> > solid basis in testing.  Something is not "supported" by us guessing
> > it should work.  It is supported only after we have successfully
> > completed testing of that release with that platform.  We probably
> > should define exactly what level of testing is required.
> >
> > 4) "Supported" also implies that the supported configuration is
> > sufficiently available and there is sufficient expertise that we have
> > confidence that users will have a high quality experience seeking
> > support on the forums and user list.
> >
> > 5) "Supported" also implies that we stand behind that release and will
> > take necessary steps to correct *critical* bugs, especially security
> > flaws, via rapidly produced point releases where necessary.
> >
> > Note that these are all expectations that a user might have, though
> > any given user might think that "supported" means only a subset of
> > these.
> >
> > What we probably really need is more of a lifecycle statement,
> > including when support for a configuration ends.
> >
> > -Rob
> >

Supported should mean also that it works with an "out of the box" install of 
the "supported" operating system.  

We must remember that the average user is relatively unskilled in computer 
knowledge and terminology; they want to press the button of the install package 
and have it install a working OpenOffice without intervention on their part.  

Such behaviour also as a good spin-off in terms of less User support being 
needed; lurking on the Forum one will quickly see that many awkward support 
cases are caused by insufficient computer knowledge of the users, as also by 
attempts on their part to out-guess the install process.

-- 
Rory O'Farrell

Re: [Mwiki] No CAPCHA images

2013-01-01 Thread janI 
Tj.

and right they are, something has happened, and I have no idea what it
is...do we have a clue when it last worked (I find it amazing that you have
found it on a talk page, where it has already been wrong for a week).

I had a quick look, and there seems to be no reason why it should not work,
apart from the fact that the vm is on its knee (again). I just cleared the
ATS cache to give it some breathing space.

Right now I actually do not understand how I generated them, because there
seems to be a library missing (mind you we have had serious problems with
the vm, so a lot can have happened9.

I have put up a site notice, because I am quite tied up the next couple of
days preparing the wiki vm (Infra delegated that job to me).

If I get more time I will look at it again, and I have already put it on my
test plan for the new wiki.

Sorry for not being able to respond quickly on this one, I can quickly set
it back to math (but that might be inviting spammers) please advice.

Rgds
jan I.


On 1 January 2013 16:41, TJ Frazier  wrote:

> Jan,
>
> We have a complaint on the wiki[1] that CAPCHA images are not appearing.
>
> [1] 
> 
> >
>
> /tj/
>
>

mwiki: HELP DynamicPageList.

2013-01-01 Thread janI 
Hi

Can anyone tell where DynamicPageList (DPL2) is used in our wiki ?

It is flooding our error log, and slowly becomming a security problem.

I would like to disable it, but before doing so I would like to know what
depends on that extension.

thx. in advance.
Rgds
jan I.

Re: [EXT] Dictionary extension for a Latin transcription of Persian

2013-01-01 Thread Andrea Pescetti 

On 31/12/2012 Hamid Farroukh wrote:

I have made a dictionray extension for the transcription of Persian
with Latin alphabet. That means, I have a way of writting Persian as
I would write English or German. This should help joung Persians
living in the US and Europe to learn Persian and write Persian texts.


Hi, is this version of Persian something that you personally conceived 
or something more standardized, perhaps one of the Persian 
transliterations listed at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language#Latin_alphabet ?

If it has a name and it is a somewhat standard transliteration, we can 
definitely include it in OpenOffice 4, expected in April or around.



1- Is it possible to use a custom dictionary for Persian as a
"western language"? Users should see an entry in the language
selection indicating Persian.


Adding another language is feasible. We prefer to add languages that 
have an ISO code or some form of standardization. It wouldn't be called 
"Persian" to avoid name clash, but something like "Persian (Latin)" or 
"Persian (Fingilish)" (if that's the name) could be feasible. Note that 
here I'm just referring to add a language name, i.e., just one 
additional option in the list where you can select if your text is in 
English, or German, or French and so on.



2- If not, may I publish it to the
extension page for others to use? Users should know that they can use
this dictionary, when they chhose Esperanto as language. Or would I
viloate some policies?


We don't have a strict policy on this (I mean: we surely won't delete 
the extension from extensions.openoffice.org, even though we would 
require that the problem and the workaround are properly explained), but 
it would be much clearer to just add the language to OpenOffice, to 
avoid conflicts and misunderstandings. Just tell us more about this 
variant of Persian and we'll see how to handle that.


Regards,
  Andrea.

Re: What does "supported" mean for us?

2013-01-01 Thread Rob Weir 
On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 12:06 PM, janI  wrote:
> +1 to your definition of "supported", it is funny I just had somewhat the
> same discussion today.
>
> Regarding lifecycle, I would like to suggest that we only support the
> latest release, otherwise we stretch our resources pretty thin.  We can of
> course have a statement that we in general will have a look at critical
> bugs, but they will only be solved in the latest release.
>

And thinking a little further, there might be something between
"supported" and "deprecated", or at least there might be different
levels of confidence we might have.

For example, I don't think we're doing any testing with Widows Vista.
We tested Windows XP, 7 and preview version of 8.  We have limited
resources.

So is Vista supported?   It certainly isn't deprecated.  But neither
is it getting the full QA treatment.  Similar questions for Linux
releases.  We don't test every release of every distro.  We pick the
major ones, such as the Ubuntu LTS releases.

One way of handling this could be:

1) Define our "Class A" platforms, the ones that we give the full test
attention to.  Similar to how we treat translations, this list can
grow given sufficient volunteers to cover the testing, and (if bugs
are found) the fixes.

2) Class A platforms (or "primary platforms" or "tested platforms" or
"supported platforms" -- whatever we call them) are the ones we
encourage users to use.

3) For other platforms we make a wiki-page per platform, were we can
track notes from users on an unique issues they find on that platform.
 These combinations are not supported, but may often work.  But we
make it easy to collect observations about AOO on that platform, and
make it easy for users to find that info.

If we do this, then our support statement could read something like:
"We have tested and qualified Apache OpenOffice X.Y on the following
operating system versions.  Other operating system versions may work
as well, but may require additional configuration.  For the latest
information please consult the following wiki page..."

-Rob

> rgds
> Jan I.
>
>
> On 1 January 2013 17:59, Rob Weir  wrote:
>
>> When a commercial software vendor says a configuration is "supported"
>> it means something, typically that to the extent the software license
>> includes an entitlement to support, that the vendor will provide that
>> service for that configuration.  So saying something is "supported" is
>> essentially an obligation.
>>
>> With a volunteer-run, open source project, "supported" cannot mean
>> quite the same thing.   We're not obligated, in any contractual sense,
>> to provide anyone with anything.  That's the nature of a volunteer
>> effort.
>>
>> However, users and organizations considering OpenOffice will naturally
>> think in terms of "support", even if they user that term loosely.  We
>> use that term as well, in our release notes, etc.  But I think we
>> ought to have a more precise definition of what we mean when we say
>> something is "supported", in order to avoid any confusion.   This
>> question has come up recently, with regards to the status of Windows
>> 8, where that OS had not been released at the time AOO 3.4.1 was
>> released.
>>
>> So here's a strawman proposal for what "supported" means for us.
>>
>> 1) "Supported" is a statement we make about a specific version of AOO
>> used with a specific platform, e.g., AOO 3.4.1 with Windows XP SP3 or
>> AOO 3.4 with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.
>>
>> 2) "Supported" means we encourage use of AOO in that configuration.
>> We have high confidence that the combination is stable, that it works
>> well and is safe.
>>
>> 3) Our confidence in stating something is supported should have a
>> solid basis in testing.  Something is not "supported" by us guessing
>> it should work.  It is supported only after we have successfully
>> completed testing of that release with that platform.  We probably
>> should define exactly what level of testing is required.
>>
>> 4) "Supported" also implies that the supported configuration is
>> sufficiently available and there is sufficient expertise that we have
>> confidence that users will have a high quality experience seeking
>> support on the forums and user list.
>>
>> 5) "Supported" also implies that we stand behind that release and will
>> take necessary steps to correct *critical* bugs, especially security
>> flaws, via rapidly produced point releases where necessary.
>>
>> Note that these are all expectations that a user might have, though
>> any given user might think that "supported" means only a subset of
>> these.
>>
>> What we probably really need is more of a lifecycle statement,
>> including when support for a configuration ends.
>>
>> -Rob
>>

Re: What does "supported" mean for us?

2013-01-01 Thread janI 
On 1 January 2013 18:50, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 12:06 PM, janI  wrote:
> > +1 to your definition of "supported", it is funny I just had somewhat the
> > same discussion today.
> >
> > Regarding lifecycle, I would like to suggest that we only support the
> > latest release, otherwise we stretch our resources pretty thin.  We can
> of
> > course have a statement that we in general will have a look at critical
> > bugs, but they will only be solved in the latest release.
> >
>
> And thinking a little further, there might be something between
> "supported" and "deprecated", or at least there might be different
> levels of confidence we might have.
>
> For example, I don't think we're doing any testing with Widows Vista.
> We tested Windows XP, 7 and preview version of 8.  We have limited
> resources.
>
> So is Vista supported?   It certainly isn't deprecated.  But neither
> is it getting the full QA treatment.  Similar questions for Linux
> releases.  We don't test every release of every distro.  We pick the
> major ones, such as the Ubuntu LTS releases.
>
> One way of handling this could be:
>
> 1) Define our "Class A" platforms, the ones that we give the full test
> attention to.  Similar to how we treat translations, this list can
> grow given sufficient volunteers to cover the testing, and (if bugs
> are found) the fixes.
>
> 2) Class A platforms (or "primary platforms" or "tested platforms" or
> "supported platforms" -- whatever we call them) are the ones we
> encourage users to use.
>
> 3) For other platforms we make a wiki-page per platform, were we can
> track notes from users on an unique issues they find on that platform.
>  These combinations are not supported, but may often work.  But we
> make it easy to collect observations about AOO on that platform, and
> make it easy for users to find that info.
>
> If we do this, then our support statement could read something like:
> "We have tested and qualified Apache OpenOffice X.Y on the following
> operating system versions.  Other operating system versions may work
> as well, but may require additional configuration.  For the latest
> information please consult the following wiki page..."
>
> -Rob
>
> I do not know this, but would it be possible to make a QA package (script
or something) that would make it easy for skilled users to do QA of a
platform (e.g. vista). I have f.x. vista running and could do it, but I do
not have a clue what should be done, and there could be other users like me
out there.

Microsoft have something I think they call certification scripts, that
checks if your platform is ok for a given product, could we do something
the same, that would be a one-time effort.

Jan I.


> > rgds
> > Jan I.
> >
> >
> > On 1 January 2013 17:59, Rob Weir  wrote:
> >
> >> When a commercial software vendor says a configuration is "supported"
> >> it means something, typically that to the extent the software license
> >> includes an entitlement to support, that the vendor will provide that
> >> service for that configuration.  So saying something is "supported" is
> >> essentially an obligation.
> >>
> >> With a volunteer-run, open source project, "supported" cannot mean
> >> quite the same thing.   We're not obligated, in any contractual sense,
> >> to provide anyone with anything.  That's the nature of a volunteer
> >> effort.
> >>
> >> However, users and organizations considering OpenOffice will naturally
> >> think in terms of "support", even if they user that term loosely.  We
> >> use that term as well, in our release notes, etc.  But I think we
> >> ought to have a more precise definition of what we mean when we say
> >> something is "supported", in order to avoid any confusion.   This
> >> question has come up recently, with regards to the status of Windows
> >> 8, where that OS had not been released at the time AOO 3.4.1 was
> >> released.
> >>
> >> So here's a strawman proposal for what "supported" means for us.
> >>
> >> 1) "Supported" is a statement we make about a specific version of AOO
> >> used with a specific platform, e.g., AOO 3.4.1 with Windows XP SP3 or
> >> AOO 3.4 with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.
> >>
> >> 2) "Supported" means we encourage use of AOO in that configuration.
> >> We have high confidence that the combination is stable, that it works
> >> well and is safe.
> >>
> >> 3) Our confidence in stating something is supported should have a
> >> solid basis in testing.  Something is not "supported" by us guessing
> >> it should work.  It is supported only after we have successfully
> >> completed testing of that release with that platform.  We probably
> >> should define exactly what level of testing is required.
> >>
> >> 4) "Supported" also implies that the supported configuration is
> >> sufficiently available and there is sufficient expertise that we have
> >> confidence that users will have a high quality experience seeking
> >> support on the forums and user list.
> >>
> >> 5) "Supported" also implies that w

Re: [EXT] Dictionary extension for a Latin transcription of Persian

2013-01-01 Thread Rob Weir 
On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> On 31/12/2012 Hamid Farroukh wrote:
>>
>> I have made a dictionray extension for the transcription of Persian
>> with Latin alphabet. That means, I have a way of writting Persian as
>> I would write English or German. This should help joung Persians
>> living in the US and Europe to learn Persian and write Persian texts.
>
>
> Hi, is this version of Persian something that you personally conceived or
> something more standardized, perhaps one of the Persian transliterations
> listed at
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language#Latin_alphabet ?
>
> If it has a name and it is a somewhat standard transliteration, we can
> definitely include it in OpenOffice 4, expected in April or around.
>
>
>> 1- Is it possible to use a custom dictionary for Persian as a
>> "western language"? Users should see an entry in the language
>> selection indicating Persian.
>
>
> Adding another language is feasible. We prefer to add languages that have an
> ISO code or some form of standardization. It wouldn't be called "Persian" to
> avoid name clash, but something like "Persian (Latin)" or "Persian
> (Fingilish)" (if that's the name) could be feasible. Note that here I'm just
> referring to add a language name, i.e., just one additional option in the
> list where you can select if your text is in English, or German, or French
> and so on.
>

This spec is rather new, so I don't know if Pootle supports it yet,
but it gives a syntax for BCP language tags with transliteration:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6497

-Rob


>
>> 2- If not, may I publish it to the
>> extension page for others to use? Users should know that they can use
>> this dictionary, when they chhose Esperanto as language. Or would I
>> viloate some policies?
>
>
> We don't have a strict policy on this (I mean: we surely won't delete the
> extension from extensions.openoffice.org, even though we would require that
> the problem and the workaround are properly explained), but it would be much
> clearer to just add the language to OpenOffice, to avoid conflicts and
> misunderstandings. Just tell us more about this variant of Persian and we'll
> see how to handle that.
>
> Regards,
>   Andrea.

Re: What does "supported" mean for us?

2013-01-01 Thread Rob Weir 
On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 12:58 PM, janI  wrote:
> On 1 January 2013 18:50, Rob Weir  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 12:06 PM, janI  wrote:
>> > +1 to your definition of "supported", it is funny I just had somewhat the
>> > same discussion today.
>> >
>> > Regarding lifecycle, I would like to suggest that we only support the
>> > latest release, otherwise we stretch our resources pretty thin.  We can
>> of
>> > course have a statement that we in general will have a look at critical
>> > bugs, but they will only be solved in the latest release.
>> >
>>
>> And thinking a little further, there might be something between
>> "supported" and "deprecated", or at least there might be different
>> levels of confidence we might have.
>>
>> For example, I don't think we're doing any testing with Widows Vista.
>> We tested Windows XP, 7 and preview version of 8.  We have limited
>> resources.
>>
>> So is Vista supported?   It certainly isn't deprecated.  But neither
>> is it getting the full QA treatment.  Similar questions for Linux
>> releases.  We don't test every release of every distro.  We pick the
>> major ones, such as the Ubuntu LTS releases.
>>
>> One way of handling this could be:
>>
>> 1) Define our "Class A" platforms, the ones that we give the full test
>> attention to.  Similar to how we treat translations, this list can
>> grow given sufficient volunteers to cover the testing, and (if bugs
>> are found) the fixes.
>>
>> 2) Class A platforms (or "primary platforms" or "tested platforms" or
>> "supported platforms" -- whatever we call them) are the ones we
>> encourage users to use.
>>
>> 3) For other platforms we make a wiki-page per platform, were we can
>> track notes from users on an unique issues they find on that platform.
>>  These combinations are not supported, but may often work.  But we
>> make it easy to collect observations about AOO on that platform, and
>> make it easy for users to find that info.
>>
>> If we do this, then our support statement could read something like:
>> "We have tested and qualified Apache OpenOffice X.Y on the following
>> operating system versions.  Other operating system versions may work
>> as well, but may require additional configuration.  For the latest
>> information please consult the following wiki page..."
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>> I do not know this, but would it be possible to make a QA package (script
> or something) that would make it easy for skilled users to do QA of a
> platform (e.g. vista). I have f.x. vista running and could do it, but I do
> not have a clue what should be done, and there could be other users like me
> out there.
>

We have some automation, but not enough to fully test a release. It is
more at the level of checking a build to make sure it did not have
gross defects, so more of a "smoke test".  Most of the testing is
manual.  So if we had a model where a set of volunteers wanted to bump
a new platform up to a "fully supported" platform, then we would have
a set of automated and manual tests that the volunteers would need to
run.

-Rob

> Microsoft have something I think they call certification scripts, that
> checks if your platform is ok for a given product, could we do something
> the same, that would be a one-time effort.
>
> Jan I.
>
>
>> > rgds
>> > Jan I.
>> >
>> >
>> > On 1 January 2013 17:59, Rob Weir  wrote:
>> >
>> >> When a commercial software vendor says a configuration is "supported"
>> >> it means something, typically that to the extent the software license
>> >> includes an entitlement to support, that the vendor will provide that
>> >> service for that configuration.  So saying something is "supported" is
>> >> essentially an obligation.
>> >>
>> >> With a volunteer-run, open source project, "supported" cannot mean
>> >> quite the same thing.   We're not obligated, in any contractual sense,
>> >> to provide anyone with anything.  That's the nature of a volunteer
>> >> effort.
>> >>
>> >> However, users and organizations considering OpenOffice will naturally
>> >> think in terms of "support", even if they user that term loosely.  We
>> >> use that term as well, in our release notes, etc.  But I think we
>> >> ought to have a more precise definition of what we mean when we say
>> >> something is "supported", in order to avoid any confusion.   This
>> >> question has come up recently, with regards to the status of Windows
>> >> 8, where that OS had not been released at the time AOO 3.4.1 was
>> >> released.
>> >>
>> >> So here's a strawman proposal for what "supported" means for us.
>> >>
>> >> 1) "Supported" is a statement we make about a specific version of AOO
>> >> used with a specific platform, e.g., AOO 3.4.1 with Windows XP SP3 or
>> >> AOO 3.4 with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.
>> >>
>> >> 2) "Supported" means we encourage use of AOO in that configuration.
>> >> We have high confidence that the combination is stable, that it works
>> >> well and is safe.
>> >>
>> >> 3) Our confidence in stating something is supported should have a

Re: What does "supported" mean for us?

2013-01-01 Thread Dave Fisher 
HI Rob,

I like your emphasis here on "Supported". Let's discuss support in terms of 
actual process and precisely what are official releases vs. user convenience 
releases. Both of which are VOTED, but only the source code release can be 
completely vetted by all of the project. The convenience binaries are well 
tested and approved. These are what you are discussing when you describe 
"Supported" below.

So when the project votes to release a user convenience binary we are voting to 
support that configuration. This can change at any release.

Packages are built by project members using the buildbot or on personal 
equipment.

Let's look at Apache Subversion's packages [1]. The project only produces 
source code and the binary packages are the responsibility of third parties. 

AOO has both project supported packages, the voted on user convenience 
binaries. There are also third party packages which project member's produce 
and "support". Examples are FreeBSD and Solaris.

I think that AOO should provide a page with a table that lists "Free support".

Columns might be.
(1) Operating System and Version.
(2) Apache Open Office Version as a link to a download.
(3) Packager - AOO, FreeBSD, Adfinis (sic), etc.
(4) Available free support - forum, ML, etc. (Would we support FreeBSD/Solaris 
AOO on dev ML?)

The table could be followed by a description about what support means as you 
describe below plus some indication about how to get on the list which should 
include a vetting procedure and a project VOTE.

Regards,
Dave

[1] http://subversion.apache.org/packages.html


On Jan 1, 2013, at 8:59 AM, Rob Weir wrote:

> When a commercial software vendor says a configuration is "supported"
> it means something, typically that to the extent the software license
> includes an entitlement to support, that the vendor will provide that
> service for that configuration.  So saying something is "supported" is
> essentially an obligation.
> 
> With a volunteer-run, open source project, "supported" cannot mean
> quite the same thing.   We're not obligated, in any contractual sense,
> to provide anyone with anything.  That's the nature of a volunteer
> effort.
> 
> However, users and organizations considering OpenOffice will naturally
> think in terms of "support", even if they user that term loosely.  We
> use that term as well, in our release notes, etc.  But I think we
> ought to have a more precise definition of what we mean when we say
> something is "supported", in order to avoid any confusion.   This
> question has come up recently, with regards to the status of Windows
> 8, where that OS had not been released at the time AOO 3.4.1 was
> released.
> 
> So here's a strawman proposal for what "supported" means for us.
> 
> 1) "Supported" is a statement we make about a specific version of AOO
> used with a specific platform, e.g., AOO 3.4.1 with Windows XP SP3 or
> AOO 3.4 with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.
> 
> 2) "Supported" means we encourage use of AOO in that configuration.
> We have high confidence that the combination is stable, that it works
> well and is safe.
> 
> 3) Our confidence in stating something is supported should have a
> solid basis in testing.  Something is not "supported" by us guessing
> it should work.  It is supported only after we have successfully
> completed testing of that release with that platform.  We probably
> should define exactly what level of testing is required.
> 
> 4) "Supported" also implies that the supported configuration is
> sufficiently available and there is sufficient expertise that we have
> confidence that users will have a high quality experience seeking
> support on the forums and user list.
> 
> 5) "Supported" also implies that we stand behind that release and will
> take necessary steps to correct *critical* bugs, especially security
> flaws, via rapidly produced point releases where necessary.
> 
> Note that these are all expectations that a user might have, though
> any given user might think that "supported" means only a subset of
> these.
> 
> What we probably really need is more of a lifecycle statement,
> including when support for a configuration ends.
> 
> -Rob

Re: [EXT] Dictionary extension for a Latin transcription of Persian

2013-01-01 Thread janI 
On 1 January 2013 18:59, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Andrea Pescetti 
> wrote:
> > On 31/12/2012 Hamid Farroukh wrote:
> >>
> >> I have made a dictionray extension for the transcription of Persian
> >> with Latin alphabet. That means, I have a way of writting Persian as
> >> I would write English or German. This should help joung Persians
> >> living in the US and Europe to learn Persian and write Persian texts.
> >
> >
> > Hi, is this version of Persian something that you personally conceived or
> > something more standardized, perhaps one of the Persian transliterations
> > listed at
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language#Latin_alphabet ?
> >
> > If it has a name and it is a somewhat standard transliteration, we can
> > definitely include it in OpenOffice 4, expected in April or around.
> >
> >
> >> 1- Is it possible to use a custom dictionary for Persian as a
> >> "western language"? Users should see an entry in the language
> >> selection indicating Persian.
> >
> >
> > Adding another language is feasible. We prefer to add languages that
> have an
> > ISO code or some form of standardization. It wouldn't be called
> "Persian" to
> > avoid name clash, but something like "Persian (Latin)" or "Persian
> > (Fingilish)" (if that's the name) could be feasible. Note that here I'm
> just
> > referring to add a language name, i.e., just one additional option in the
> > list where you can select if your text is in English, or German, or
> French
> > and so on.
> >
>
> This spec is rather new, so I don't know if Pootle supports it yet,
> but it gives a syntax for BCP language tags with transliteration:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6497
>

If you with Pootle means the server, it simply handles UTF8 and does not
really do a lot with them (except for review, which we do not use at the
moment). Mysql is prepared for any type of UTF8 strings.

Be aware that the pootle server will be upgraded in the near future, we are
already working on "stabilizing" the setup.

Thx for the rfc, that comes handy to another problem I have.

jan I.


>
> -Rob
>
>
> >
> >> 2- If not, may I publish it to the
> >> extension page for others to use? Users should know that they can use
> >> this dictionary, when they chhose Esperanto as language. Or would I
> >> viloate some policies?
> >
> >
> > We don't have a strict policy on this (I mean: we surely won't delete the
> > extension from extensions.openoffice.org, even though we would require
> that
> > the problem and the workaround are properly explained), but it would be
> much
> > clearer to just add the language to OpenOffice, to avoid conflicts and
> > misunderstandings. Just tell us more about this variant of Persian and
> we'll
> > see how to handle that.
> >
> > Regards,
> >   Andrea.
>

Re: What does "supported" mean for us?

2013-01-01 Thread janI 
On 1 January 2013 19:03, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 12:58 PM, janI  wrote:
> > On 1 January 2013 18:50, Rob Weir  wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 12:06 PM, janI  wrote:
> >> > +1 to your definition of "supported", it is funny I just had somewhat
> the
> >> > same discussion today.
> >> >
> >> > Regarding lifecycle, I would like to suggest that we only support the
> >> > latest release, otherwise we stretch our resources pretty thin.  We
> can
> >> of
> >> > course have a statement that we in general will have a look at
> critical
> >> > bugs, but they will only be solved in the latest release.
> >> >
> >>
> >> And thinking a little further, there might be something between
> >> "supported" and "deprecated", or at least there might be different
> >> levels of confidence we might have.
> >>
> >> For example, I don't think we're doing any testing with Widows Vista.
> >> We tested Windows XP, 7 and preview version of 8.  We have limited
> >> resources.
> >>
> >> So is Vista supported?   It certainly isn't deprecated.  But neither
> >> is it getting the full QA treatment.  Similar questions for Linux
> >> releases.  We don't test every release of every distro.  We pick the
> >> major ones, such as the Ubuntu LTS releases.
> >>
> >> One way of handling this could be:
> >>
> >> 1) Define our "Class A" platforms, the ones that we give the full test
> >> attention to.  Similar to how we treat translations, this list can
> >> grow given sufficient volunteers to cover the testing, and (if bugs
> >> are found) the fixes.
> >>
> >> 2) Class A platforms (or "primary platforms" or "tested platforms" or
> >> "supported platforms" -- whatever we call them) are the ones we
> >> encourage users to use.
> >>
> >> 3) For other platforms we make a wiki-page per platform, were we can
> >> track notes from users on an unique issues they find on that platform.
> >>  These combinations are not supported, but may often work.  But we
> >> make it easy to collect observations about AOO on that platform, and
> >> make it easy for users to find that info.
> >>
> >> If we do this, then our support statement could read something like:
> >> "We have tested and qualified Apache OpenOffice X.Y on the following
> >> operating system versions.  Other operating system versions may work
> >> as well, but may require additional configuration.  For the latest
> >> information please consult the following wiki page..."
> >>
> >> -Rob
> >>
> >> I do not know this, but would it be possible to make a QA package
> (script
> > or something) that would make it easy for skilled users to do QA of a
> > platform (e.g. vista). I have f.x. vista running and could do it, but I
> do
> > not have a clue what should be done, and there could be other users like
> me
> > out there.
> >
>
> We have some automation, but not enough to fully test a release. It is
> more at the level of checking a build to make sure it did not have
> gross defects, so more of a "smoke test".  Most of the testing is
> manual.  So if we had a model where a set of volunteers wanted to bump
> a new platform up to a "fully supported" platform, then we would have
> a set of automated and manual tests that the volunteers would need to
> run.
>
Do we need a full release test to make sure a platform works, isnt it more
a "feature" test ? I might be wrong but to me there is a difference whether
we test if our code works, or if already tested code works on a new
platform, this should be a lot simpler.

Would this not be a great task for some of our new QA people, to make a
minimum test suite automated, that would secure that AOO works on a
platform.

I know it is easy for me to say, without sufficient knowledge, but I think
it would be more than just a neat feature ("run this, to test if your
system works with AOO").

Jan I.

>
> -Rob
>
> > Microsoft have something I think they call certification scripts, that
> > checks if your platform is ok for a given product, could we do something
> > the same, that would be a one-time effort.
> >
> > Jan I.
> >
> >
> >> > rgds
> >> > Jan I.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 1 January 2013 17:59, Rob Weir  wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> When a commercial software vendor says a configuration is "supported"
> >> >> it means something, typically that to the extent the software license
> >> >> includes an entitlement to support, that the vendor will provide that
> >> >> service for that configuration.  So saying something is "supported"
> is
> >> >> essentially an obligation.
> >> >>
> >> >> With a volunteer-run, open source project, "supported" cannot mean
> >> >> quite the same thing.   We're not obligated, in any contractual
> sense,
> >> >> to provide anyone with anything.  That's the nature of a volunteer
> >> >> effort.
> >> >>
> >> >> However, users and organizations considering OpenOffice will
> naturally
> >> >> think in terms of "support", even if they user that term loosely.  We
> >> >> use that term as well, in our release notes, etc.  But I think

Re: first look at a scrolling News column...

2013-01-01 Thread Kay Schenk 
On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 7:40 AM, Carl Marcum  wrote:

> On 12/31/2012 06:06 PM, Kay Schenk wrote:
>
>> Well, I have finally put up a mockup of what a scrolling News column on
>> our
>> home page would look like.
>>
>> This is in the "test" area on staging at the moment.
>>
>> http://ooo-site.staging.**apache.org/test/
>>
>> This required editing changes to the index page and a minor styling change
>> for the home.css styles along with using an ssi for the news instead of
>> two
>> areas.
>>
>> For this mockup, I did take out a LOT of old news.
>>
>> Anyway, see what you think. I find the scroll bars a bit ugly but we may
>> be
>> able to pretty them up somehow.
>>
>> This will save the hassle we currently do with the News items however.
>>
>>
> +1
>
> I like it.
>
> Thanks for work.
> Carl
>

Thanks for the kudos, all.

I will see what can be done about styling for phones.

and @Rob...well I wouldn't call these stories as much as just
"announcements" I guess, so they are somewhat different than our blogs.
Maybe we do have a bit more redundancy than we need however. I would think
anything that was sent out via the announcements mail list should perhaps
be entered in the "News" as well.  Just my .02.

I will work more on styling this week.

I may actually put ALL the old news items back in -- it doesn't hurt
anything and maybe folks would just like them as some historical reference.



-- 

MzK

"No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted."
 --
Aesop

Re: What does "supported" mean for us?

2013-01-01 Thread Rob Weir 
On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> HI Rob,
>
> I like your emphasis here on "Supported". Let's discuss support in terms of 
> actual process and precisely what are official releases vs. user convenience 
> releases. Both of which are VOTED, but only the source code release can be 
> completely vetted by all of the project. The convenience binaries are well 
> tested and approved. These are what you are discussing when you describe 
> "Supported" below.
>

Even when we release source code it is relevant what platforms and
configurations have been tested and which ones we say we support.
Remember, we're not releasing a literary work, source code to be
printed on paper and read for enjoyment.  It is source code that's
only practical use is to be compiled into binaries that must of
necessity run on an operating system.  So platform support is equally
relevant for both source and binary distributions.  To support one is
to support another.  For example, if we say we support Windows XP,
then we must maintain a building guide and be prepared to answer
questions from those who want to build binaries that work on that
platform.  So there a parallel support and maintenance obligation for
the source distributions as well.


> So when the project votes to release a user convenience binary we are voting 
> to support that configuration. This can change at any release.
>

In most cases this would happen simultaneously with the release of the
source distribution. But there may be cases where testing of a
platform only completes at a latter point and we indicate it is
supported then.  This might not require a release of any new source or
binary.  Windows 8 might be a good example here.  It was released
after AOO 3.4.1 came out.  If we tested it now and found it worked
fine, then we would simply update the release notes to reflect this.
No formal vote required.  Lazy consensus should be enough, I think.

> Packages are built by project members using the buildbot or on personal 
> equipment.
>
> Let's look at Apache Subversion's packages [1]. The project only produces 
> source code and the binary packages are the responsibility of third parties.

So does Subversion release purely based on reviewing source code?  Or
does their community test binaries on particular platforms?  Of course
they do.  Their release notes are filled with observations on what
configurations work and which do not:
http://subversion.apache.org/docs/release-notes/1.7

That's the nature of cross-platform C++ code.  IMHO, what platforms
are supported is unrelated to the source versus binary question.  The
binary is simply a machine transformation of the source (ask any
lawyer) and a bug in the source will guarantee a bug in the binary
(ask an engineer),

>
> AOO has both project supported packages, the voted on user convenience 
> binaries. There are also third party packages which project member's produce 
> and "support". Examples are FreeBSD and Solaris.
>
> I think that AOO should provide a page with a table that lists "Free support".
>
> Columns might be.
> (1) Operating System and Version.
> (2) Apache Open Office Version as a link to a download.
> (3) Packager - AOO, FreeBSD, Adfinis (sic), etc.
> (4) Available free support - forum, ML, etc. (Would we support 
> FreeBSD/Solaris AOO on dev ML?)
>
> The table could be followed by a description about what support means as you 
> describe below plus some indication about how to get on the list which should 
> include a vetting procedure and a project VOTE.
>

I'd rather avoid using the word "support" in different senses, if we
can avoid it.   Ideally we'd use a different term to describe avenues
that FreeBSD users might have for getting help than the term we use
the describe what platforms we tested and qualified before voting on a
release.  Maybe the term  "support" is irreparably generic and we need
to use a different term for the specific thing we state about our
releases and what configurations have been tested?

-Rob

> Regards,
> Dave
>
> [1] http://subversion.apache.org/packages.html
>
>
> On Jan 1, 2013, at 8:59 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> When a commercial software vendor says a configuration is "supported"
>> it means something, typically that to the extent the software license
>> includes an entitlement to support, that the vendor will provide that
>> service for that configuration.  So saying something is "supported" is
>> essentially an obligation.
>>
>> With a volunteer-run, open source project, "supported" cannot mean
>> quite the same thing.   We're not obligated, in any contractual sense,
>> to provide anyone with anything.  That's the nature of a volunteer
>> effort.
>>
>> However, users and organizations considering OpenOffice will naturally
>> think in terms of "support", even if they user that term loosely.  We
>> use that term as well, in our release notes, etc.  But I think we
>> ought to have a more precise definition of what we mean when we say
>> something is

Re: info: Additional Licensing requirements if any for use of Open Office for Professional Work in Companies

2013-01-01 Thread Andrea Pescetti 

anand.vasappanavara wrote:

Thank you for your mail and yes definetly i will keep you posted
about the outcome. Is it ok to  pass on your mail Id to our IT
department to further take this forward.


Sure. And I've realized I left a question unanswered:


What about the security associated with the extensions of these tools
are they safe, can they leak our professional info like those free
android apps?


Some extensions are bundled with OpenOffice and they undergo the same 
level of scrutiny as the rest of our source code. As for the others, 
extensions.openoffice.org is a community site: extensions hosted there 
are scanned for viruses, malware and spam, but are not fully audited by 
the project.


Regards,
  Andrea.

Re: [EXT] Dictionary extension for a Latin transcription of Persian

2013-01-01 Thread Hamid Farroukh 
Thank
you very much for your fast reaction.
 There
is no official standard transliteration. All we have, are more or
less standard proposals. The standard, I use ("invented"),
is called Alefbâye 2om, which means 2nd alphabet. Soon I will
publish materials about it in English, as they are in German at the
moment. I will also update the Wikipedia page you mentioned.
 As
far as I know, this is the only proposal for which there exists a
spell check dictionary. Currently there is also a Persian-German and
German-Persian (Babylon) dictionary for this script. In the future
this dictionary will also be provided for English.
 "Persian
(2nd Alphabet)" would be perfect, although "Persian
(Latin)” would be fine as well. And if it could come with
OpenOffice 4, that would be great.
 Please
let me know, if and until when you need any special information.  

 Once
again thank you very much for your support. I appreciate it very
much.

Kind
regards
 Hamid
Farroukh



 Von: Andrea Pescetti 
An: dev@openoffice.apache.org 
CC: Hamid Farroukh  
Gesendet: 18:43 Dienstag, 1.Januar 2013
Betreff: Re: [EXT]  Dictionary extension for a Latin transcription of Persian
 
On 31/12/2012 Hamid Farroukh wrote:
> I have made a dictionray extension for the transcription of Persian
> with Latin alphabet. That means, I have a way of writting Persian as
> I would write English or German. This should help joung Persians
> living in the US and Europe to learn Persian and write Persian texts.

Hi, is this version of Persian something that you personally conceived or 
something more standardized, perhaps one of the Persian transliterations listed 
at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language#Latin_alphabet ?

If it has a name and it is a somewhat standard transliteration, we can 
definitely include it in OpenOffice 4, expected in April or around.

> 1- Is it possible to use a custom dictionary for Persian as a
> "western language"? Users should see an entry in the language
> selection indicating Persian.

Adding another language is feasible. We prefer to add languages that have an 
ISO code or some form of standardization. It wouldn't be called "Persian" to 
avoid name clash, but something like "Persian (Latin)" or "Persian (Fingilish)" 
(if that's the name) could be feasible. Note that here I'm just referring to 
add a language name, i.e., just one additional option in the list where you can 
select if your text is in English, or German, or French and so on.

> 2- If not, may I publish it to the
> extension page for others to use? Users should know that they can use
> this dictionary, when they chhose Esperanto as language. Or would I
> viloate some policies?

We don't have a strict policy on this (I mean: we surely won't delete the 
extension from extensions.openoffice.org, even though we would require that the 
problem and the workaround are properly explained), but it would be much 
clearer to just add the language to OpenOffice, to avoid conflicts and 
misunderstandings. Just tell us more about this variant of Persian and we'll 
see how to handle that.

Regards,
  Andrea.

Re: mwiki: HELP DynamicPageList.

2013-01-01 Thread tj 

On 1/1/2013 12:37, janI wrote:

Hi

Can anyone tell where DynamicPageList (DPL2) is used in our wiki ?

It is flooding our error log, and slowly becomming a security problem.

I would like to disable it, but before doing so I would like to know what
depends on that extension.

thx. in advance.
Rgds
jan I.

The major use of DPL at the moment is in generating ToCs for things like 
FAQs and HowTos [1]. It saves a lot of work, and errors, compared to 
manual linking.


DPL was used to give "most edited" or "most popular" lists on the main 
page, but those are now on the statistics page[2]. Edit this page to see 
(at the bottom) some templates that use DPL.


For a list of all the uses, see [3].

[1] 

[2] 

[3] 



HTH,
/tj/

Re: mwiki: HELP DynamicPageList.

2013-01-01 Thread janI 
So if I understand you correctly we need it and cannot just remove it.

Then I hope the author will come with a fix, and the moment we get 10-15
error messages pr minute.

Jan I.

On 1 January 2013 20:29, tj  wrote:

> On 1/1/2013 12:37, janI wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Can anyone tell where DynamicPageList (DPL2) is used in our wiki ?
>>
>> It is flooding our error log, and slowly becomming a security problem.
>>
>> I would like to disable it, but before doing so I would like to know what
>> depends on that extension.
>>
>> thx. in advance.
>> Rgds
>> jan I.
>>
>>  The major use of DPL at the moment is in generating ToCs for things like
> FAQs and HowTos [1]. It saves a lot of work, and errors, compared to manual
> linking.
>
> DPL was used to give "most edited" or "most popular" lists on the main
> page, but those are now on the statistics page[2]. Edit this page to see
> (at the bottom) some templates that use DPL.
>
> For a list of all the uses, see [3].
>
> [1] 
> 
> >
>
> [2] 
> 
> >
>
> [3]  Template:Extension_DPL
> >
>
> HTH,
> /tj/
>
>

Re: Calc user guide Chapter 6 - German translation READY NOW

2013-01-01 Thread Keith N. McKenna 

TJ Frazier wrote:

On 1/1/2013 10:11, Raphael Bircher wrote:

Hi

It would be interesting to write this also to the German Mailing List
users...@openoffice.apache.org Nice to see more german Native language
speachers.

Greetings Raphael

Am 01.01.2013 13:54, schrieb 口 海:

Hi Andrea and OOo-Team,

happy New Year for the OOo - Project and best wishes !

As I had announced some months ago, I have translated several chapters
of the Calc 3.2 - user guide into German.
This chapter of the user guide is (to my knowledge) not yet translated
into German.

PLEASE help me to get it published on the OOo-website - as it would
reward the work that went into it !!

I am working on several other chapters of the user guide which have so
far not yet been translated into German and I would like to receive
help these upcoming weeks / months to get them published on the
OOo-website etc etc , too.

I am available in case further corrections etc etc are necessary.

Best wishes


Heiko Strauss


Hi, Heiko, Raphael,

Can we get some feedback from German-speakers that this is a
good-quality translation?

The mechanics of publication are simple: upload to a file (use the same
name as the document), and add a link on the DE version of the wiki
Documentation page. I am prepared to do these steps, if nobody objects.

AOO policy is that new material shall be under ALv2, but this
translation is presumably under some CC license. It seems reasonable to
me to make an exception for new material about old software.

I will wait at least 72 hours for feedback on either or both points.

/tj/




TJ;

I just took a look at the original 3.2 manuals on the wiki and they are 
all dual licensed either  GPL v3 or CC-BY v3. My understanding is that 
since the translation is a derivative work it would need to have the 
same license.


Keith

Re: mwiki: HELP DynamicPageList.

2013-01-01 Thread TJ Frazier 
A couple of the templates are giving user-error messages. (Are you 
seeing those in the error logs?) I was going to try to fix or disable 
those, but the wiki went down ... :/

/tj/

On 1/1/2013 14:37, janI wrote:

So if I understand you correctly we need it and cannot just remove it.

Then I hope the author will come with a fix, and the moment we get 10-15
error messages pr minute.

Jan I.

On 1 January 2013 20:29, tj  wrote:


On 1/1/2013 12:37, janI wrote:


Hi

Can anyone tell where DynamicPageList (DPL2) is used in our wiki ?

It is flooding our error log, and slowly becomming a security problem.

I would like to disable it, but before doing so I would like to know what
depends on that extension.

thx. in advance.
Rgds
jan I.

  The major use of DPL at the moment is in generating ToCs for things like

FAQs and HowTos [1]. It saves a lot of work, and errors, compared to manual
linking.

DPL was used to give "most edited" or "most popular" lists on the main
page, but those are now on the statistics page[2]. Edit this page to see
(at the bottom) some templates that use DPL.

For a list of all the uses, see [3].

[1] 





[2] 





[3] 




HTH,
/tj/

Re: mwiki: HELP DynamicPageList.

2013-01-01 Thread janI 
Hi.

no I see a php error in the DPL2 php files.

Yes wiki is down, with kernel panic (I assume) and we (infra) are trying to
get hold of someone with the needed karma to physically reboot it.

jan.

On 1 January 2013 21:26, TJ Frazier  wrote:

> A couple of the templates are giving user-error messages. (Are you seeing
> those in the error logs?) I was going to try to fix or disable those, but
> the wiki went down ... :/
> /tj/
>
>
> On 1/1/2013 14:37, janI wrote:
>
>> So if I understand you correctly we need it and cannot just remove it.
>>
>> Then I hope the author will come with a fix, and the moment we get 10-15
>> error messages pr minute.
>>
>> Jan I.
>>
>> On 1 January 2013 20:29, tj  wrote:
>>
>>  On 1/1/2013 12:37, janI wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hi

 Can anyone tell where DynamicPageList (DPL2) is used in our wiki ?

 It is flooding our error log, and slowly becomming a security problem.

 I would like to disable it, but before doing so I would like to know
 what
 depends on that extension.

 thx. in advance.
 Rgds
 jan I.

   The major use of DPL at the moment is in generating ToCs for things
 like

>>> FAQs and HowTos [1]. It saves a lot of work, and errors, compared to
>>> manual
>>> linking.
>>>
>>> DPL was used to give "most edited" or "most popular" lists on the main
>>> page, but those are now on the statistics page[2]. Edit this page to see
>>> (at the bottom) some templates that use DPL.
>>>
>>> For a list of all the uses, see [3].
>>>
>>> [1] 
>>> 
>>> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/How_Tos>
>>> >
>>>


>>> [2] 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> >
>>>


>>> [3] 
>>> 
>>> Template:Extension_DPL>> Special:WhatLinksHere/**Template:Extension_DPL
>>> >
>>>


>>> HTH,
>>> /tj/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Re: Calc user guide Chapter 6 - German translation READY NOW

2013-01-01 Thread Regina Henschel 

Hi Heiko,

口 海 schrieb:

Hi Andrea and OOo-Team,

happy New Year for the OOo - Project and best wishes !

As I had announced some months ago, I have translated several chapters
of the Calc 3.2 - user guide into German.
This chapter of the user guide is (to my knowledge) not yet translated
into German.

PLEASE help me to get it published on the OOo-website - as it would
reward the work that went into it !!


Yes, we should make your translation available. I think, that the Wiki, 
where the English versions are already available, will be a proper place.




I am working on several other chapters of the user guide which have so
far not yet been translated into German and I would like to receive help
these upcoming weeks / months to get them published on the OOo-website
etc etc , too.

I am available in case further corrections etc etc are necessary.


The document uses the wrong template. That has the effect, that it has 
the wrong language and wrong font size. The correct template is in 
http://www.odfauthors.org/openoffice.org/deutsch/Vorlagen/vorlage-fuer-uebersetzer-und-korrekturleser/view


How to handle copyright and license is described in the mentioned template.

We should avoid the impression that this translation is authorized by 
ODFAuthors (former OOoAuthors). If such authorization is wished-for, the 
document would have to go through their revision cycles. Therefore I 
think, that at least the OOoAuthors logo and text in the footer on page 
2 has to be removed.


The document would need a proof reading to look for typos and wrong 
links. But because it is for the outdated OOo3.2, I think we can take it 
as it is. For AOO4.x the printing part has to be rewritten, because the 
printer dialog has changed after OOo3.2.


Currently the Wiki does not react, so I cannot look for a proper place. 
But I know, there exists a page for the English version. If no 
DE-section exists, I suggest to add a line to that page, saying 
"Translations" and in next line "Heiko Strauss hat diese Anleitung nach 
Deutsch übersetzt." with "Deutsch" as direct link to the document. 
Perhaps add the full German title. This way it can be found by search in 
Internet and by search inside the Wiki.


Kind regards
Regina

Re: Incompatible changes in AOO 4.0 ?

2013-01-01 Thread Pedro Giffuni 
Hi again;

- Messaggio originale -
> Da: Rob Weir 

> 
> So there are two things here:
> 
> 1) All the junk out to the 12th decimal place that might matter to a
> few people and which might be improved by moving to boost
>

I think this will indeed be improved by boost. Boost is really cool in
that it can promote automatically the number types if there is an
advantage when doing calculations

  
> 2) The edge stuff where we can very well break real world spreadsheets
> if we're not careful.
> 
> This is not entirely about the 12th decimal place.  I was one of the
> co-authors of the OpenFormula specification used in ODF.  There is
> more there than just mathematical fact.  There are a lot of
> conventions, purely pragmatic conventions, involved in spreadsheet
> formulas, and we need to get those right as well.
> 

Thanks to Regina's test spreadsheet I found that I had to change the default
boost policy for a simple reason: a scientist wants to know if there is an
overflow and is likely to want to stop all the calculations, a Calc user doesn't
really care too much and finds absolutely unacceptable to have the application
close when such thing happens.

Boost actually let's us control the math behavior very well.

> For example, take the POWER() function.  POWER(x;y) == x^y.   So what
> is POWER(0;0) ?   I'm sure boost returns something there.  But is it
> the same as AOO 3.4.1 returns?  And does it conform to OpenFormula?
> 

I happen to have some memories of this specific case. Calc, like my
college HP calculator, erroneously sets the value to 1. Calculating
the limit, as we did in Calculus I, it can be proved the correct result is
infinite. This should be fixed in Calc.

OpenFormula is rather ambivalent: it says it is implementation dependent
and it can be 0, 1, or Infinite.

Boost has no opinion about it: Boost doesn't provide a replacement for this.

It is a perfectly valid point though, ee have to check those things function
by function.

...
> 
> So before we attempt a brain transplant with the spreadsheet formulas,
> let's make sure we're all comfortable with the real-world risk this
> introduces and have a plan to find (and fix) the bugs this will
> inevitably introduce.  Of course, this is not a demand on you
> personally, but a challenge for the project overall.
> 

Sure, we have to be careful. For good or for bad, boost doesn't provide
replacements for everything we do: I think basically the hyperbolic and
some power functions that are in my patch and the statistics functions.

Pedro.

Re: [discussion] Buildbot standard a.o or our own.

2013-01-01 Thread Andrea Pescetti 

janI wrote:

I might be wrong but do we e.g.
- get automatic mail when a build fails ?
- have a statistic over our build through time ?


Notifications are sent to openoffice-commits, see for example

http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-commits/201301.mbox/%3c20130101075333.41945c0...@aegis.apache.org%3E

I don't know if we have a handy way to see the build history and not 
just the latest build status displayed at

http://ci.apache.org/projects/openoffice/


I think the job being done today is great, and was in my own (obviously not
too elegant) way just trying to see if we could improve.


I didn't see anything inappropriate in the requests and reactions about 
the buildbot so far... it's normal to ask, it's normal to expect easy 
fixes, and it's normal that more challenging changes are accepted or 
denied based on discussion with people who are doing that work.


Regards,
  Andrea.

Re: Calc user guide Chapter 6 - German translation READY NOW

2013-01-01 Thread TJ Frazier 

On 1/1/2013 16:20, Regina Henschel wrote:

Hi Heiko,

口 海 schrieb:

Hi Andrea and OOo-Team,

happy New Year for the OOo - Project and best wishes !

As I had announced some months ago, I have translated several chapters
of the Calc 3.2 - user guide into German.
This chapter of the user guide is (to my knowledge) not yet translated
into German.

PLEASE help me to get it published on the OOo-website - as it would
reward the work that went into it !!


Yes, we should make your translation available. I think, that the Wiki,
where the English versions are already available, will be a proper place.



I am working on several other chapters of the user guide which have so
far not yet been translated into German and I would like to receive help
these upcoming weeks / months to get them published on the OOo-website
etc etc , too.

I am available in case further corrections etc etc are necessary.


The document uses the wrong template. That has the effect, that it has
the wrong language and wrong font size. The correct template is in
http://www.odfauthors.org/openoffice.org/deutsch/Vorlagen/vorlage-fuer-uebersetzer-und-korrekturleser/view


How to handle copyright and license is described in the mentioned template.

We should avoid the impression that this translation is authorized by
ODFAuthors (former OOoAuthors). If such authorization is wished-for, the
document would have to go through their revision cycles. Therefore I
think, that at least the OOoAuthors logo and text in the footer on page
2 has to be removed.

The document would need a proof reading to look for typos and wrong
links. But because it is for the outdated OOo3.2, I think we can take it
as it is. For AOO4.x the printing part has to be rewritten, because the
printer dialog has changed after OOo3.2.

Currently the Wiki does not react, so I cannot look for a proper place.
But I know, there exists a page for the English version. If no
DE-section exists, I suggest to add a line to that page, saying
"Translations" and in next line "Heiko Strauss hat diese Anleitung nach
Deutsch übersetzt." with "Deutsch" as direct link to the document.
Perhaps add the full German title. This way it can be found by search in
Internet and by search inside the Wiki.

Kind regards
Regina


Hi, Regina,

I have found a good place, by following the Deutsch link on the 
Documentation page. On the English version, the links are a couple of 
pages away, but the German page is mostly redlinks. An indented link 
under the Calc 3.2 redlink should work. I expect to use the name of the 
document (as attached by Heiko) as the link text; this is how the 
English chapters are listed.


Thank you for the reviewing. My German is totally inadequate for that. 
Do you have any suggestions for how Heiko should handle the next review 
cycle? Send straight to me (no review)? Send to you? Post it on the 
wiki, and ask the DE list for review? Generally speaking, docs like this 
shouldn't be sent to a mailing list.


/tj/

Boost, LAPACK and fortran

2013-01-01 Thread Maho NAKATA 
Hi all and Pedro,

In 2012/12/30 I recieved an e-mail from Pedro (sorry 
if you want to keep this activity secret) that he want to use
uBLAS http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_48_0/libs/numeric/ublas/doc/index.htm
for matrix-matrxi, matrix-vector manipulations. For the first step, it is a
very very good idea.

Here, I'm wondering whether we can include FORTRAN in a build requirement.

uBLAS and BLAS [http://www.netlib.org/blas/] 
are independent implementation but BLAS is the original and well tested.
and LAPACK [http://www.netlib.org/lapack/] which is based on BLAS, and can do 
much more things
like least square fitting, singular value decomposition, solving linear 
equations
and solving eigenvalue problems (and whatever you think will be found in 
LAPACK).
Moreover web hit of LAPACK page is 111,192,369! 
[http://www.netlib.org/master_counts2.html#lapack]

We can also use OpenBLAS to speed up BLAS part and some parts of LAPACK. BLAS 
is usually slow in their
reference implementation (10-100 times slower for dgemm in particular), and
optimized BLAS like ATLAS, Intel MKL, GotoBLAS2, OpenBLAS are much faster.
OpenBLAS is a derivative of GotoBLAS2. Unfortunately GotoBLAS2 is discontinued, 
but
OpenBLAS is actively maintained and ported to many processors.

Unfortunately or forutnately, BLAS and LAPACK are written in FORTRAN, (and 
LAPACK > 3.1 requires
FORTRAN90).

All are distributed under BSD style license except for Intel MKL, so we can 
include without
violation of Apache license.

Note that I'm a maintiner of BLAS, LAPACK in FreeBSD,
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/math/lapack/Makefile
and I'm a (only) principal developer of multiple precision version of BLAS and 
LAPACK
called MPACK.
http://mplapack.sourceforge.net/

So - depending on BLAS, LAPACK and OpenBLAS in the future
are very good idea, and provides far better functionality and performance 
without 
license issues. One problem is that we will require build dependency as FORTRAN!

What do you think?

Best,
-- Nakata Maho
http://nakatamaho.riken.jp/ http://blog.goo.ne.jp/nakatamaho/ 
http://nakatamaho.riken.jp/maho.pgp.txt http://ja.openoffice.org/

Re: Boost, LAPACK and fortran

2013-01-01 Thread Pedro Giffuni 
Hi Maho;


- Messaggio originale -
> Da: Maho NAKATA 

> 
> Hi all and Pedro,
> 
> In 2012/12/30 I recieved an e-mail from Pedro (sorry 
> if you want to keep this activity secret) that he want to use
> uBLAS http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_48_0/libs/numeric/ublas/doc/index.htm
> for matrix-matrxi, matrix-vector manipulations. For the first step, it is a
> very very good idea.
> 

It wasn't meant to be a secret but I was taking some time to digest the idea of
using Boost in general.

> Here, I'm wondering whether we can include FORTRAN in a build requirement.
> 

The idea of using Fortran is rather inconvenient due to the Windows port.
We currently use MSVC 2008: Microsoft stopped distributing Fortran compilers
ages ago and using gfortran as an extra dependency makes things too complex.

I think we could use Boost's ublas for the Matrix operations and that should be
sufficient for the very basic matrix support Calc provides.

I am not very good with how Matrices work on C++ though, so I don't have
plans to work on it.

> 
> So - depending on BLAS, LAPACK and OpenBLAS in the future
> are very good idea, and provides far better functionality and performance 
> without 
> license issues. One problem is that we will require build dependency as 
> FORTRAN!
>

We can use FORTRAN for extensions and maybe optional scaddins though.
There are some really cool scientific packages in FORTRAN like MUMPS:
http://graal.ens-lyon.fr/MUMPS/


Cheers,

Pedro.

Re: mwiki: HELP DynamicPageList.

2013-01-01 Thread TJ Frazier 

Hi, Jan,

Researching the DPL extensions, I think that all our usage could be done 
with the "old", stable DPL extension, rather than DPL2. AFAIK, the only 
sizable problem is the  tag itself, which would need to be 
 instead. Isn't that something a bot could do, working 
off of that 'What links here' list? s/DPL>/DynamicPageList>/ (case 
insensitive!) There may be other parameter incompatibilities, but they 
should be few enough to fix by hand. Worth trying? (If so, please let me 
know ahead of time, so I can be ready to jump on problems.)


/tj/

On 1/1/2013 15:44, janI wrote:

Hi.

no I see a php error in the DPL2 php files.

Yes wiki is down, with kernel panic (I assume) and we (infra) are trying to
get hold of someone with the needed karma to physically reboot it.

jan.

On 1 January 2013 21:26, TJ Frazier  wrote:


A couple of the templates are giving user-error messages. (Are you seeing
those in the error logs?) I was going to try to fix or disable those, but
the wiki went down ... :/
/tj/


On 1/1/2013 14:37, janI wrote:


So if I understand you correctly we need it and cannot just remove it.

Then I hope the author will come with a fix, and the moment we get 10-15
error messages pr minute.

Jan I.

On 1 January 2013 20:29, tj  wrote:

  On 1/1/2013 12:37, janI wrote:


  Hi


Can anyone tell where DynamicPageList (DPL2) is used in our wiki ?

It is flooding our error log, and slowly becomming a security problem.

I would like to disable it, but before doing so I would like to know
what
depends on that extension.

thx. in advance.
Rgds
jan I.

   The major use of DPL at the moment is in generating ToCs for things
like


FAQs and HowTos [1]. It saves a lot of work, and errors, compared to
manual
linking.

DPL was used to give "most edited" or "most popular" lists on the main
page, but those are now on the statistics page[2]. Edit this page to see
(at the bottom) some templates that use DPL.

For a list of all the uses, see [3].

[1] 

http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/How_Tos>








[2] 










[3] 

Template:Extension_DPL








HTH,
/tj/

Info

2013-01-01 Thread Robert Spotts 

Can open office be downloaded and used on an iPad
Sent from my iPad

Re: Info

2013-01-01 Thread Andrew Douglas Pitonyak 


On 01/01/2013 06:48 PM, Robert Spotts wrote:

Can open office be downloaded and used on an iPad
Sent from my iPad

Hopefully someone more in the know than I can answer, but, if you can 
download and install normal Apple applications, then probably. 
Otherwise, I expect mostly no, but both of these should be of interest.


http://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=44455

https://www.rollapp.com/OpenOffice


--
Andrew Pitonyak
My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
Info:  http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php

Re: What does "supported" mean for us?

2013-01-01 Thread Ian C 
A corollary to this is also the notion of End of Life, or when is a
release no longer "supported".
In a volunteer framework that may be never, someone may always be
fiddling with an older version?
Are older releases archived forever?

When do we say "Sorry that will not be fixed, please upgrade to a
newer version that already addressees the issue"?
I wrestle with this in a commercial environment all the time.
Sometimes upgrading is a time consuming task and one in which the user
needs to the have confidence in the product to do it.

Just thinking out loud.

Best wishes for the New Year to one and all

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 2:43 AM, Rob Weir  wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 1:03 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>> HI Rob,
>>
>> I like your emphasis here on "Supported". Let's discuss support in terms of 
>> actual process and precisely what are official releases vs. user convenience 
>> releases. Both of which are VOTED, but only the source code release can be 
>> completely vetted by all of the project. The convenience binaries are well 
>> tested and approved. These are what you are discussing when you describe 
>> "Supported" below.
>>
>
> Even when we release source code it is relevant what platforms and
> configurations have been tested and which ones we say we support.
> Remember, we're not releasing a literary work, source code to be
> printed on paper and read for enjoyment.  It is source code that's
> only practical use is to be compiled into binaries that must of
> necessity run on an operating system.  So platform support is equally
> relevant for both source and binary distributions.  To support one is
> to support another.  For example, if we say we support Windows XP,
> then we must maintain a building guide and be prepared to answer
> questions from those who want to build binaries that work on that
> platform.  So there a parallel support and maintenance obligation for
> the source distributions as well.
>
>
>> So when the project votes to release a user convenience binary we are voting 
>> to support that configuration. This can change at any release.
>>
>
> In most cases this would happen simultaneously with the release of the
> source distribution. But there may be cases where testing of a
> platform only completes at a latter point and we indicate it is
> supported then.  This might not require a release of any new source or
> binary.  Windows 8 might be a good example here.  It was released
> after AOO 3.4.1 came out.  If we tested it now and found it worked
> fine, then we would simply update the release notes to reflect this.
> No formal vote required.  Lazy consensus should be enough, I think.
>
>> Packages are built by project members using the buildbot or on personal 
>> equipment.
>>
>> Let's look at Apache Subversion's packages [1]. The project only produces 
>> source code and the binary packages are the responsibility of third parties.
>
> So does Subversion release purely based on reviewing source code?  Or
> does their community test binaries on particular platforms?  Of course
> they do.  Their release notes are filled with observations on what
> configurations work and which do not:
> http://subversion.apache.org/docs/release-notes/1.7
>
> That's the nature of cross-platform C++ code.  IMHO, what platforms
> are supported is unrelated to the source versus binary question.  The
> binary is simply a machine transformation of the source (ask any
> lawyer) and a bug in the source will guarantee a bug in the binary
> (ask an engineer),
>
>>
>> AOO has both project supported packages, the voted on user convenience 
>> binaries. There are also third party packages which project member's produce 
>> and "support". Examples are FreeBSD and Solaris.
>>
>> I think that AOO should provide a page with a table that lists "Free 
>> support".
>>
>> Columns might be.
>> (1) Operating System and Version.
>> (2) Apache Open Office Version as a link to a download.
>> (3) Packager - AOO, FreeBSD, Adfinis (sic), etc.
>> (4) Available free support - forum, ML, etc. (Would we support 
>> FreeBSD/Solaris AOO on dev ML?)
>>
>> The table could be followed by a description about what support means as you 
>> describe below plus some indication about how to get on the list which 
>> should include a vetting procedure and a project VOTE.
>>
>
> I'd rather avoid using the word "support" in different senses, if we
> can avoid it.   Ideally we'd use a different term to describe avenues
> that FreeBSD users might have for getting help than the term we use
> the describe what platforms we tested and qualified before voting on a
> release.  Maybe the term  "support" is irreparably generic and we need
> to use a different term for the specific thing we state about our
> releases and what configurations have been tested?
>
> -Rob
>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>
>> [1] http://subversion.apache.org/packages.html
>>
>>
>> On Jan 1, 2013, at 8:59 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>>> When a commercial software vendor says a configuration

Re: Terrible problem with Open office

2013-01-01 Thread Larry Gusaas 

On 2013-01-01 5:49 PM watereflection wrote concerning "Terrible problem with Open 
office":

I need help to unfreeze my work in open office application. Every time I'm 
trying to open a text document, the following message pops up with no possible 
solution.
It does not allow me to turn off my computer nor restart.

The application “OpenOffice.org” was forced to quit while trying to restore its 
windows.  Do you want to try to restore its windows again?


From the Release notes at 
http://www.openoffice.org/development/releases/3.4.1.html
*Known Issues*
On recent versions of Mac OS X it might happen, especially after a "Force quit", that the 
following error message appears: "Restore Windows - The application OpenOffice.org was forced 
to quit while trying to restore its windows. Do you want to try to restore its windows again?". 
If you cannot get rid of it: Option-click the "Go" menu; choose "Library" from the menu to open 
the folder in the Finder; click on the folder "Saved Application State"; delete the file 
"org.openoffice.script.savedState". See this issue for more information.  
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=119006


--

As a courtesy I have sent a copy of this reply to you as well as to the mailing list. Do Not 
reply to me personally but just to the list at  - replies to my 
personal email address will be ignored.


Since you are not subscribed to this list you may not see all the replies to your query. To 
subscribe Apache OpenOffice mailing lists go to

http://openoffice.apache.org/mailing-lists.html

For user support you can also use The OpenOffice.org Community Forum
http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/

_

Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." - 
Edgard Varese

Re: [PROPOSAL] New Apache OpenOffice 4 logo proposals...

2013-01-01 Thread Michael Acevedo 
Dave,

The video as far as I know will never see the light of day beyond these
mailing lists. Number two, the video was done for the purpose of showing
the proposal logo so I was not being strictly official while making it.


On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Dave Fisher  wrote:

> Hi Michael,
>
> I like the logo - a lot.
>
> I have a problem with the video that is significant. You are using the
> same music that Microsoft is using for its Surface Advertising on TV. Also,
> at the end you are using a non-standard Apache Software Foundation logo and
> feather placement.
>
> Although we want people and institutions to use Apache OpenOffice and not
> Microsoft Office, we cannot be subversive about it.
>
> Please keep up with your work and contributions, just be careful that you
> aren't appropriating others images and music.
>
> For fun here is a more original version of the music.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYyzBbWPV5w
>
> Best Regards and Happy New Year,
> Dave
>
> On Dec 26, 2012, at 8:07 PM, Michael Acevedo wrote:
>
> > Greetings to all in the mailing list and those in this AOO Logo Proposal
> > subject,
> >
> > In this email, I would like to mention that I have added two new logo
> > proposals to the Apache OpenOffice Logo exploration wiki article. Now let
> > me explain what this new logo it's all about.
> >
> > The new logo design does away with the orb and changes it for a gull ring
> > that rests under a blue background which itself rests on circles which
> are
> > inspired on the Adobe Flex logo multicolor scheme. The new gull ring
> while
> > being new, retains the familiar circular shape of the current OpenOffice
> > logo, but at the same time is a new take that pays respect to the orb.
> All
> > of these elements are wrapped in a modern black gradient icon than makes
> > the logo stand out. Furthermore, the new logo actually changes the look
> of
> > the word OpenOffice into a more modern non-capitalized "openoffice" word
> > design (also an inspiration from the Adobe Flex project logo). The latter
> > serves the function of highlighting Apache as the owner of the project
> > (whose name is in capital letters), yet the non-capitalized "openoffice"
> > names takes presence by being written in a larger size font. Overall, the
> > new logo design is simple, clean, and modern.
> >
> > Now that I have given a sense of the new logo, I would like to show you a
> > reveal video:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC-tOuhTm9Y
> >
> > But there is one last detail, which actually is a testament to the power
> of
> > OpenOffice. The detail is that the logo that you see at the end of the
> > video was 99% made in Apache OpenOffice Draw.
> >
> > Hope you liked the logo and the reveal video.
> >
> > Happy Holidays!
> >
> > You can see the formal proposal in the Cwiki at Apache:
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.x+-+Logo+Explorations
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 11:20 PM, Michael Acevedo 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Greetings Kevin, I would not mind posting the logos to that AOO UX wiki.
> >> Thing is I don't know where it is or whether it is on the cwiki or mwiki
> >> (if it is on the latter, I need to request an account).
> >>
> >> Let me know.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Saturday, December 22, 2012, Kevin Grignon wrote:
> >>
> >>> Michael,
> >>>
> >>> Great work. Design is very iterative. Keep pushing!
> >>>
> >>> Using the design explorations is a great way to stimulate a
> conversation
> >>> which can help us better understand the requirements. Perhaps we could
> >>> harvest the criteria for success in the thread and capture in the wiki
> >>>
> >>> Then we can make the design review process less subjective by having
> >>> people review design explorations relative to stated goals.
> >>>
> >>> Also, the mailing list is tough place to review designs, can you post
> the
> >>> design explorations to the AOO UX wiki?
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Kevin
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Dec 23, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Michael Acevedo 
> wrote:
> >>>
>  I think I've come up with something that is simplistic on the eye but
>  beautiful an lively.
> 
>  Still working on it but stay tuned.
> 
> 
>  On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 10:43 PM, Michael Acevedo 
> >>> wrote:
> 
> > RGB,
> >
> > I see the ring as something different. The blue to me represents the
> >>> open
> > blue sky, and the ring around it as a frame to an opening of an open
> >>> world.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 8:16 AM, RGB ES  wrote:
> >
> >> 2012/12/22 janI 
> >>
> >>> I am no designer, but I have tried to make a suggestion to better
> >> explain
> >>> what I mean.
> >>>
> >>> The current proposals all have squares / circles etc. and apart
> from
> >>> the
> >>> original similarity with windows8 that has a special signal value.
> >>>
> >>> A surface (square/circle etc) especially with a border, signal:
> >>> - limitation or positive a pr