Re: Invalid HTML-Tags
Jutta Wrage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (06/10/2005): > > Am 06.10.2005 um 14:31 schrieb Fr�d�ric Bothamy: > > > I agree that and should be preferred, but I did not see > > anywhere in the HTML specifications > > (http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/index/elements.html) that they should > > not > > be used, even using "HTML Strict". > > Please read the notes about accessibilty and what css and HTML tags > are for. Rendering (presentation) should go to css with HTML strict. > HTML tags are for pointing out what the content is (paragraph, link, > quotation heading and so on). > > And and is font rendering. Where can we found a patch of all the changes you have applied? I found nothing at http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian/diff/ but you are still introducing typography mistakes by fixing with :-( And it is really not easy to track these mistakes file by file. I don't know what is the best solution. To introduce some tags such as and is really not easy for translators to mark something as italic. And the tag will depend on the language. Cheers, -- Thomas Huriaux signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Invalid HTML-Tags
Jutta Wrage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (07/10/2005):
> > Where can we found a patch of all the changes you have applied? I
> > found
> > nothing at http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian/diff/ but you are
> > still introducing typography mistakes by fixing with :-(
>
> No, sorry, it would take much longer to walk throw the originally
> left 2.100 files (now down to 1.600), If I create the patches and put
> them online always.
A "cvs diff -u root-directory" before each commit does not take so much
time. It will take us much more longer to check everything file by file.
> The solution for the quotes is already found and seems to work in
> nealy all browsers.
>
> q:lang(fr), q:lang(de) {
> quotes: '�' '�' ;
> }
This is only a part of the solution.
Sometimes, english will require text
while French will require text
Other times, english will require text
while French will require text
--
Thomas Huriaux
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Re: Invalid HTML-Tags
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Hi!
Where can we found a patch of all the changes you have applied? I
found
nothing at http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian/diff/ but you are
still introducing typography mistakes by fixing with :-(
No, sorry, it would take much longer to walk throw the originally
left 2.100 files (now down to 1.600), If I create the patches and put
them online always.
The solution for the quotes is already found and seems to work in
nealy all browsers.
q:lang(fr), q:lang(de) {
quotes: '«' '»' ;
}
Can someone contact the other language teams to ask for their
quotation marks? Especially we need the rules for nested quotes.
greetings
Jutta
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Re: Invalid HTML-Tags
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sorry, I sent two mails to the authors only accidentily I fail to see why you absolutely need to modify those 12 files, this is a very minor issue compared with all the missing end tags. I think having valid HTML strict (and without further css development is nearly impossible) is mor an issue than adding missing optional end-tags. If everything is valid, it will be much easier to add these tags in batch runs. But if you really want me to add optional ending tags, always, why walking through the tree, I must say: I am not willingly to be an edidor slave. What I am currently doing is walking through the whole tree (about 200 files last days) I do not look, which is the current language at all. Ther is an error and I solvle it regardless the language. Excluding here 12 pages and there 20 pages and so on would mean, I have to delete the language completely to get not in trouble. looking on each file, for the language, I am currently in means stopping after each :wN and :wn. That makes things times slower and I will be able to do 20 files, where I can do 60 or more, if I do not care the languages. Please note my anser to Thomas' mail: the quote issue is already solved, I think. Beside that, I think, it is much more an issue, that languages seem to use very different tags for the same content already, so that it is not obvious, if pages miss content presentation due to missing or wrong tags. Normally all translators only should replace the content but not the tags. And iff there are errorness usages, this should be corrected in the main manguage, too - not only in one language. greetings Jutta -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkNGQmsACgkQOgZ5N97kHkdNAgCgnDVt7Mw5LfMiGL9U0eLgaHkR GlQAniTamvaGZTOQ8t2mvaf6n56Kq7ky =hv8u -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Invalid HTML-Tags
On Fri, Oct 07, 2005, Jutta Wrage wrote: > Excluding here 12 pages and there 20 pages and so on would mean, I > have to delete the language completely to get not in trouble. looking > on each file, for the language, I am currently in means stopping > after each :wN and :wn. That makes things times slower and I will be > able to do 20 files, where I can do 60 or more, if I do not care the > languages. Hello, Jutta. I appreciate very much your work of converting all the pages into HTML strict, but if I shall make a suggestion: if I were you, I would only deal with the English pages and let the l10n teams do their work (you can of course work on you native language(s)). It will reduce the load on your shoulders and avoid misunderstandings/bad decisions that will make it impossible for l10n teams to have perfectly localised webpages (quotes and other typographic rules for example). If this problem raises only in French, I would find it a good solution not to convert French pages and let the l10n-french team come to an agreement on how to adapt your work. Thanks again for your work, -- adn Mohammed Adnène Trojette "Le sourire est un devoir social." Stéphane Gsell -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Invalid HTML-Tags
Mohammed Adnène Trojette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (07/10/2005): > On Fri, Oct 07, 2005, Jutta Wrage wrote: > > Excluding here 12 pages and there 20 pages and so on would mean, I > > have to delete the language completely to get not in trouble. looking > > on each file, for the language, I am currently in means stopping > > after each :wN and :wn. That makes things times slower and I will be > > able to do 20 files, where I can do 60 or more, if I do not care the > > languages. > > I appreciate very much your work of converting all the pages into HTML > strict, but if I shall make a suggestion: if I were you, I would only > deal with the English pages and let the l10n teams do their work (you > can of course work on you native language(s)). It will reduce the load > on your shoulders and avoid misunderstandings/bad decisions that will > make it impossible for l10n teams to have perfectly localised webpages > (quotes and other typographic rules for example). > > Normally all translators only should replace the content > > but not the tags. And iff there are errorness usages, this should be > > corrected in the main manguage, too - not only in one language. l10n is even much more than what Adnene said. Here are a few examples: - add language-specific part. www.debian.org/support is a good example with additional links to French websites about Debian, that are of no interest for non-french speaking users. - if an external webpage exists in different languages without real content-negotiation support, the link to this webpage must be localized (for example, en.wikipedia.org/english_article must be changed to fr.wikipedia.org/french_article, if this article is good) - examples must be adapted. A sentence such as "for example, if you start the German translation project, please create the webwml/german directory" must be translated in french by "for example, if you start the French translation project, please create the webwml/french directory". - ... It means that links, tags, ... may differ from the original. I fully agree with Adnene that it may be better for you and for us to let the l10n teams help you converting these pages to HTML strict. Cheers, -- Thomas Huriaux signature.asc Description: Digital signature
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Re: Invalid HTML-Tags
El Viernes, 7 de Octubre de 2005 11:38, Jutta Wrage escribió:
> Hi!
>
> > Where can we found a patch of all the changes you have applied? I
> > found
> > nothing at http://www.witch.westfalen.de/debian/diff/ but you are
> > still introducing typography mistakes by fixing with :-(
>
> No, sorry, it would take much longer to walk throw the originally
> left 2.100 files (now down to 1.600), If I create the patches and put
> them online always.
>
> The solution for the quotes is already found and seems to work in
> nealy all browsers.
>
> q:lang(fr), q:lang(de) {
> quotes: '«' '»' ;
> }
>
> Can someone contact the other language teams to ask for their
> quotation marks? Especially we need the rules for nested quotes.
We, in Spanish, also use latin/Spanish quotes («») as quitation marks.
Inside
them, we use English quotes ("").
Best regards,
Ender.
--
Non. Je suis la belette de personne.
-- Amélie (Le fabuleux destin d'Amélie Poulain).
--
Debian developer
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Re: Invalid HTML-Tags
On Friday 07 October 2005 11:38, Jutta Wrage wrote:
> The solution for the quotes is already found and seems to work in
> nealy all browsers.
>
> q:lang(fr), q:lang(de) {
> quotes: '«' '»' ;
> }
Hi,
although those quotes are valid in German, the ordering is rather unusual.
Apart from that, we've agreed on [EMAIL PROTECTED] to use '»' and '«'.
Therefore, I suggest to use the quotes for German the other way round.
Concerning the French quotes: I think that you have to insert a
(non-breaking) space between each quote and the quoted text. This should be
respected in the definition. Would the following be a valid definition?
q:lang(fr) {
quotes: '« ' ' »' ;
}
q:lang(de) {
quotes: '»' '«' ;
}
Cheers,
--
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There are 3 different kinds of people on the world -
those who can count and those who can't.
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Re: Invalid HTML-Tags
On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 11:39:55AM +0200, Jutta Wrage wrote: > But if you really want me to add optional ending tags, always, why > walking through the tree, I must say: I am not willingly to be an > edidor slave. I thought that XHTML Strict was your target, and HTML 4.01 Strict only a milestone, hence my mail about these optional ending tags. Sorry for the confusion. Denis -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Invalid HTML-Tags
On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 11:38:43AM +0200, Jutta Wrage wrote:
> The solution for the quotes is already found and seems to work in
> nealy all browsers.
>
> q:lang(fr), q:lang(de) {
> quotes: '«' '»' ;
> }
Is there a way to let debian.css include debian-fr.css when language
is set to fr?
IMO it is always better to have seperate language dependent content.
Please note also that if non-ASCII characters are added to debian.css,
they must be UTF-8 encoded (so that text can be added for any language),
and charset="UTF-8" attribute must be added to tags. I did not
check whether it works, though.
Denis
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Quote signs in debian css - solution for all languages in sight
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi! Seems I have found something working with all browsers for the quotes. I am preparing example pages and will tell you when they are online on my website. Nested quotes will be supported and quotes follow the language of the page. greetings Jutta - -- http://www.witch.westfalen.de http://witch.muensterland.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkNG738ACgkQOgZ5N97kHkeV1ACgw6a1fT+UIYO8fsPMvadpBaOZ vggAnj8yl2+0M8OCVUjRFB7UpeDx/f4k =usaT -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Quote signs in debian css - solution for all languages in sight
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am 07.10.2005 um 23:58 schrieb Jutta Wrage: Nested quotes will be supported and quotes follow the language of the page. Here we are. Hope I got everything right: http:// www.witch.westfalen.de/csstest/quotes/ greetings Jutta - -- http://www.witch.westfalen.de http://witch.muensterland.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkNHEwMACgkQOgZ5N97kHkcy7wCgwREbHjlLawHif1eqIoi1N+tA LaoAnjlJMVhZ2NCYRDCNqytpgGpn1ojm =gK0H -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Invalid HTML-Tags
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am 07.10.2005 um 21:50 schrieb Denis Barbier: I thought that XHTML Strict was your target, and HTML 4.01 Strict only a milestone, hence my mail about these optional ending tags. Sorry for the confusion. It never was, because xhtml has several problems when delivering it. greetings Jutta - -- http://www.witch.westfalen.de http://witch.muensterland.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkNHFAQACgkQOgZ5N97kHkfyPACfZDi4u5aoWIZ8pjJoL9CbFUpf fmYAoJdl9n3zknW6m7SFUjOSC5e6rgBH =0481 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Invalid HTML-Tags
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am 07.10.2005 um 11:36 schrieb Thomas Huriaux: his is only a part of the solution. Sometimes, english will require text while French will require text Other times, english will require text while French will require text The rendering of the content should be done by the user agent. If that not works, we need an additional css. normally quotes are italic or something like that. But the user agent also should add the correct quotes (even for nested ones). But seems, that does not work for most of the browsers. Sorry, that I did not see that. But if the example pages work, we get rid of any quote problem soon, I hope. BTW: some tips and the quotes for the languages are taken from there: http://web.nickshanks.com/safari/quotes The hack there does no do well, because quotes have to fit the main page and not the language of what is quoted. Gecko engine sucks, khtml sucks, and browsers with their own engine, too. greetings Jutta - -- http://www.witch.westfalen.de http://witch.muensterland.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkNHHRYACgkQOgZ5N97kHkcTmgCfS+Kleo1dQHE5SITTrepz+1Ko INwAn2vgN2rhio52cMdxjbvLHJzmHfNv =EDEO -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Invalid HTML-Tags
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Am 07.10.2005 um 22:07 schrieb Denis Barbier:
s there a way to let debian.css include debian-fr.css when language
is set to fr?
Look at my exmaple pages, we can add that to the main css in the
first step. I am not sure, how we can get reasonable results with
including stylesheets for each language. On thing are possible
conflicts and another that it is not working well will all browsers.
q:before { content: "\201C"; }
q:after { content: "\201D"; }
q q:before { content: "\2018"; }
q q:after { content: "\2019"; }
Can I add that soon? for the other styles I want to wait until I get
feedback on my expamle pages.
The french quotes differ from all others. If they are okay, I'll add
them together with the defaults.
The css is directly in the example pages and pages differ only in the
language they are supposed to be for, maybe, I should replace some
encodings. People might tell me.
greetings
Jutta
- --
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