Re: who is looking for a new distro as a result of systemd (particularly server-side users)
On Mon, 10/13/14, Miles Fidelman wrote: Subject: who is looking for a new distro as a result of systemd (particularly server-side users) To: "debian-user" Date: Monday, October 13, 2014, 11:45 AM Folks, [cut] I'm really curious to know how many others here have come to a similar conclusion, and what folks are looking at (in my case, SmartOS is looking better and better). Miles Fidelman I am strictly a Desktop user (other than an occasional use of xampp) so your survey doesn't really include me. But I am equally upset about having this s**t taking control of my Desktop. Gnome's shenanigans are why I moved to xfce on wheezy. But now even xfce will be drawn into the systemd dependency circle. I am pissed. However, I am in no rush to run to an alternative. My production machine still runs squeeze which will be supported until 2016 and I imagine wheezy EOL will also be extended when the doo-doo hits the fan in userland. So I'm going to wait and see what develops in the coming months and years before I start shopping too seriously. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/2c6ad1a07f39f99f1f8cfc455b60b...@riseup.net
Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?)
On Tue, 10/14/14, Jonathan Dowland wrote: Subject: Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?) To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2014, 1:56 AM You are still writing as if you are going to be forced to run systemd, despite being repeatedly told that multiple init systems will be supported. I'm really struggling to continue to presume "good faith" on your part now. It's about so much more than the choice of init systems. It's that systemd shoots it's tentacles into DEs and applications. That's the real problem. What's the point of having a non-systemd init system if nothing will work on it? Those 'entanglements' are the real lock-down. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1ae4430f1392d5480d4cff79380e7...@riseup.net
Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?)
On Tue, 10/14/14, Brian wrote: Subject: Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?) To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2014, 12:22 PM On Tue 14 Oct 2014 at 10:47:13 -0500, goli...@riseup.net wrote: On Tue, 10/14/14, Jonathan Dowland wrote: Subject: Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?) To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2014, 1:56 AM You are still writing as if you are going to be forced to run systemd, despite being repeatedly told that multiple init systems will be supported. I'm really struggling to continue to presume "good faith" on your part now. It's about so much more than the choice of init systems. It's that systemd shoots it's tentacles into DEs and applications. That's the real problem. What's the point of having a non-systemd init system if nothing will work on it? Those 'entanglements' are the real lock-down. On Debian we talk about dependencies. It would make things much more understandable for everyone if you stuck with the same terminology. Ah so . . . ever heard of a 'rose by any other name'? Either way, the problem remains the same so is this really about semantics? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/f4a0ed6bdff5629b7d49647bcbd8e...@riseup.net
GR proposed re: choice of init systems
Now let's see what happens with this! https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/10/msg1.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/3035ef569c222b0d9e8dab47e328e...@riseup.net
Debian fork
Just in case you haven't seen this elsewhere: http://debianfork.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/d78701a6bef411e6c3736ba962f4a...@riseup.net
Censorship confirmed
On Mon, 10/20/14, Don Armstrong wrote: Subject: Re: Remember when men were men and wrote their own init scripts? =) To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Cc: listmas...@lists.debian.org Date: Monday, October 20, 2014, 1:59 PM Further responses to this thread may be discarded. -- Don Armstrong Having a hard time deciding between sarcasm . . . NICE! Or outrage . . . WTF! for a response. golinux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/0e4eba825b9fa5f921a0801eb7f30...@riseup.net
Refracta systemd-free progress
Check out the outstanding progress that fsmithred and dzz are making with a systemd-free Refracta: http://refracta.freeforums.org/going-with-the-systemd-flow-or-not-t422-50.html#p4085 http://refracta.freeforums.org/going-with-the-systemd-flow-or-not-t422-60.html#p4086 Kudos to them!! Looking forward to giving this a spin before too long. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/b289f93101aa36b575aefcde623ce...@riseup.net
Re: Refracta systemd-free progress
On Mon, 10/20/14, Gary Dale wrote: Subject: Re: Refracta systemd-free progress To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Monday, October 20, 2014, 10:33 PM On 20/10/14 08:39 PM, goli...@riseup.net wrote: Check out the outstanding progress that fsmithred and dzz are making with a systemd-free Refracta: http://refracta.freeforums.org/going-with-the-systemd-flow-or-not-t422-50.html#p4085 http://refracta.freeforums.org/going-with-the-systemd-flow-or-not-t422-60.html#p4086 Kudos to them!! Looking forward to giving this a spin before too long. If it makes you happy. Freedom of choice is one benefit of Linux. Personally, I like systemd and the fast boots it provides, plus the ease of administration. As long as there IS choice! Those systemd 'entanglements' have the potential to be very limiting. Other options MUST be kept alive. I rarely have to boot. Mostly in and out of suspend. Back up in less than 5 secs. And it's easy to tweak config files - I like 'hands-on'. I predict that systemd will float your boat until it springs a leak . . . ;) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/a1c8d246d815e1d8f415b8ceb8efa...@riseup.net
Re: If Not Systemd, then What?
On Tue, 10/21/14, Steve Litt wrote: Subject: Re: If Not Systemd, then What? To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2014, 1:02 PM On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 09:11:32 +0100 Jonathan Dowland wrote: Hi, On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 05:27:34AM -0200, Martinx - ジェームズ wrote: > If uselessd provides ONLY a new init, based on CGroups and lots of > cool ideas from systemd itself, then, it worth trying it! Just for > fun... I think it's an interesting project and I might contribute towards the packaging, so long as it's a team effort, but currently nobody has taken ownership of the 'request for package' bug, so there is almost no chance of uselessd being a part of jessie. (it would have to be packaged, uploaded and pass NEW in under 2 weeks.) Hey Jonathan, First, if you do contribute to uselessd, thank you very much. I want to make sure I'm reading your paragraph correctly: The Debian uselessd package cannot be finished in time to make it into Jessie, so there will be no uselessd package in Jessie. Is that correct? Let's say that, in six months from now, Debian's uselessd package is ready for prime time. Would there be any reason some enterprising person couldn't simply copy it to another repository (hopefully a trusted one), so that people could add that repository and thus install uselessd on Jessie? Thanks, SteveT - If I'm understanding this post correctly, exbarx over on FDN already managed to port uselessd to Debian Jessie. (Most of the discussion is way over my pay grade.): http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=117944 golinux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/da1d90bfad2bf739b0d0dcbc74579...@riseup.net
Who's locking down the code?
Would appreciate comments on this observation: "Look at the source code (while you're at it, note who are the upstream maintainers of util-linux). Even they (so far) allow compilation without systemd. It is Debian who are introducing systemd dependencies even where it is actually optional in the upstream source." If upstream is allowing choice, why is Debian cutting it off? Maybe I'm missing something . . . golinux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/4a02d11e1708ba94a5a582e0b6281...@riseup.net
Re: Who's locking down the code?
On 2014-10-25 12:14, Laurent Bigonville wrote: golinux wrote: Would appreciate comments on this observation: "Look at the source code (while you're at it, note who are the upstream maintainers of util-linux). Even they (so far) allow compilation without systemd. It is Debian who are introducing systemd dependencies even where it is actually optional in the upstream source." If upstream is allowing choice, why is Debian cutting it off? Maybe I'm missing something . . . golinux The fact that an executable is linked against a systemd library doesn't automatically mean you have to run systemd as PID1. This is especially true for the sd-daemon and sd-journal libraries in this case. Laurent Bigonville I have heard that argument before. I counter that it's about more than PID1. It seems that even having systemd libraries etc. is a little like being somewhat pregnant - precursors to a little bundle of joy to be delivered at a later date when the PTB see fit. In other words, a trojan of sorts that will come to bite us. Sorry, not much trust these days . . . :( golinux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/76e036096d0be9954d71537c88cc3...@riseup.net
Re: Perfect Jessie is something like this...
On Tue, 10/28/14, lee wrote: Subject: Re: Perfect Jessie is something like this... To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2014, 2:54 PM I am considering Funtoo. I would rather stay free of systemd. The problem is that this is already pretty much impossible. Hard but not impossible. See this list. http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=118319 Funtoo is on there as as well as Debian-based Refracta which just posted a systemd-free 'Proto-Refracta Jessie with sysvinit' iso (without libsystemd0): :~$ cat package_list | grep systemd :~$ I've always preferred to have only installed what is needed. Unfortunately, this has become more and more difficult. It's ok to ship it. It shouldn't be installed when it's not needed. Yes to all of this. golinux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/a1c7863501b913f0a0e8fc7daa613...@riseup.net
Re: FW: Time for compassion and the Init GR
On Thu, 11/6/14, Andrei POPESCU wrote: Subject: FW: Time for compassion and the Init GR To: "Debian-User" Date: Thursday, November 6, 2014, 3:55 PM - Forwarded message from Sam Hartman - Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 09:58:29 + From: Sam Hartman To: debian-proj...@lists.debian.org Cc: debian-de...@lists.debian.org Subject: Time for compassion and the Init GR User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) - Forwarded message from Sam Hartman - Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 09:58:29 + From: Sam Hartman To: debian-proj...@lists.debian.org Cc: debian-de...@lists.debian.org Subject: Time for compassion and the Init GR User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) Early morning, Wednesday, November 19, the results of the GR on init system coupling will be announced. No result will make everyone happy. In fact, that morning, some of our developers, users and contributors will be really unhappy. [snip] Maybe everyone will make up and play nice like the newly elected US Congress. You get my drift. (And no one's laughing . . .) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/3be51a26b31d4f2c80fdbf2ad91c7...@riseup.net
Joey Hess is out?
Joey Hess is leaving Debian. Anybody have a context? Anything to do with the systemd controversy and the monolithic direction Debian is going? https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/11/msg00174.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/0548d2a721dca1c85e7f27541b3e1...@riseup.net
Re: Joey Hess is out?
On Fri, 11/7/14, Carl Fink wrote: Subject: Re: Joey Hess is out? To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Friday, November 7, 2014, 7:49 PM Anyone else read the subject line and think, "Why would I care that Joey is gay?" Did you actually READ Joey's post. Those were his very own words that were used in the subject: " . . . I wish everyone well, but I'M OUT." So your comment is just plain stupid IMO. golinux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/60a400906e33bdf461899517995d4...@riseup.net
Re: Joey Hess is out?
Subject: Re: Joey Hess is out? To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Friday, November 7, 2014, 7:49 PM Anyone else read the subject line and think, "Why would I care that Joey is gay?" Did you actually READ Joey's post. Those were his very own words that were used in the subject: " . . . I wish everyone well, but I'M OUT." So your comment is just plain stupid IMO. golinux After reading the foofaraw over the word "out", I took the time to read Joey Hess' abdication message and then the Debian Constitution that seems to be the center of his complaints. I am sorely confused. I have been using Debian for over 15 years and have seen Hess' name associated with an unbelievable number of projects. His worth to the Debian development effort can not be overstated. But after reading the Debian Constitution, I wonder what is really wrong. I find the document somewhat convoluted but doubt that I could do any better. Without a document that carefully outlines the rights and responsibilities of the participants in an endeavor of this size, the whole development effort would sink into chaos. Could it be a simple case of burnout? Maybe a discussion of why such a valuable member of the community would throw in the towel would be more productive. Gary R. I've never touched a bureaucracy (with a constitution or bylaws etc.) that wasn't toxic to some degree. I know from experience that it can suck the life out of any project and turn it into the living dead. I've learned to steer clear of 'organizations' and work independently if I want to be productive, effective and happy. So I can really sympathize with Joey's frustration (even if he is a systemd supporter :( ). golinux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/d6f6f13f0721dc219ff187c931435...@riseup.net
Re: Perfect Jessie is something like this...
On Sat, 11/8/14, Hendrik Boom wrote: On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 13:16:45 -0500, golinux wrote: On Tue, 10/28/14, lee wrote: Subject: Re: Perfect Jessie is something like this... To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Tuesday, October 28, 2014, 2:54 PM I am considering Funtoo. I would rather stay free of systemd. The problem is that this is already pretty much impossible. Hard but not impossible. See this list. http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=118319 Funtoo is on there as as well as Debian-based Refracta which just posted a systemd-free 'Proto-Refracta Jessie with sysvinit' iso (without libsystemd0): Does Refracta mean that the long-wanted systemd0free Debian for is a reality? -- hendrik For the moment yes. But no guarantees as the landscape keeps changing. And I imagine as 'we' find ways around systemd, the Poettering cabal will find ways to make the workaround non-functional. (Yup, tin foil time - zero trust.) I think fsmithred is tackling sid at the moment. I installed the Jessie version of Refracta but haven't played with it much, tried to add apps or updated yet. I'm not gonna get serious about exploring alternatives for a year or so . . . golinux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/d227a8e8766a06bd6f41127f8b6eb...@riseup.net
Re: Has the systemd fork already happened?
On Sun, 11/9/14, Hendrik Boom wrote: Subject: Has the systemd fork already happened? To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Sunday, November 9, 2014, 8:04 AM I just encountered a link about refracta. Refracta would appear to be rather close to Debian testing. Its home page is http://www.ibiblio.org/refracta/ At http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=118319 it is described as (for testing, without libsystemd0, it's pinned). Anybody know more? Does it use Debian's repositories? Are there any other forks? -- hendrik Yes, Refracta is pure unmodified Debian and uses the Debian repos! As suggested, please join the forums and contribute expertise if possible. golinux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/86fcdf6849584fd144a70dbbc328a...@riseup.net
Re: Has the systemd fork already happened?
On Sun, 11/9/14, Doug wrote: Subject: Re: Has the systemd fork already happened? To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Sunday, November 9, 2014, 2:00 PM I think it might be worthwhile to consider some other derivative distros: I don't mean consider them _instead_ of Refracta, I mean consider how they work and exist. I'm thinking particularly of Mint, which uses a lot of Ubuntu, and its repos. Isn't Refracta a similar situation? (And one hopes that Mint also will reject systemd. We shall see.) --doug Please do little research before opening mouth and inserting foot. There is no comparison between Refracta and bloated offerings like Ubuntu or Mint. In fact, it is downright insulting. In case you missed it, Refracta is a respin NOT a derivative distro. golinux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/2bf6251352d2875696ebf0278a646...@riseup.net
Re: Has the systemd fork already happened?
On Sun, 11/9/14, Hendrik Boom wrote: Subject: Re: Has the systemd fork already happened? To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Sunday, November 9, 2014, 12:19 PM On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 14:40:47 +, Brian wrote: On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 14:40:47 +, Brian wrote: On Sun 09 Nov 2014 at 14:04:59 +, Hendrik Boom wrote: I just encountered a link about refracta. Refracta would appear to be rather close to Debian testing. Its home page is http://www.ibiblio.org/refracta/ Guess what? They have forum too. I bet they are avid to answer questions such as yours. :) True. But they're more likely to give answers that match their party line. I'll get to hear the other side here. -- hendrik Hahahaha!! That's pretty funny. There is no 'party line' over at Refracta. Just geeks doing their thing . . . golinux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/32ee22d8658d5aad04c8c3dda4f0e...@riseup.net
Re: Has the systemd fork already happened?
On Sun, 11/9/14, Renaud OLGIATI wrote: Subject: Re: Has the systemd fork already happened? To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Cc: dmcgarr...@optonline.net Date: Sunday, November 9, 2014, 2:58 PM On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 15:00:24 -0500 Doug wrote: > Like pointed out above: Those are my opinions, nothing "official" from > refracta. I think it might be worthwhile to consider some other derivative distros: I don't mean consider them _instead_ of Refracta, I mean consider how they work and exist. I'm thinking particularly of Mint, which uses a lot of Ubuntu, and its repos. Isn't Refracta a similar situation? (And one hopes that Mint also will reject systemd. We shall see.) From what I read on their forum http://refracta.freeforums.org/systemd-t376.html if Debian goes to systemd they will follow > > suit. Cheers, Ron. You might want to look at the date of that thread. That offering was from February with the last post in March. Much has changed since then. http://refracta.freeforums.org/going-with-the-systemd-flow-or-not-t422.html http://refracta.freeforums.org/proto-refracta-jessie-with-sysvinit-t440.html Those guys won't give up without a hell of a fight - they are idealistic and very stubborn. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the end of Refracta if they don't succeed. (And that would put me into mourning. :( ) golinux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/52ddf0437d09822e7386787595938...@riseup.net
Re: Has the systemd fork already happened?
On Sun, 11/9/14, Jonathan Dowland wrote: Subject: Re: Has the systemd fork already happened? To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Sunday, November 9, 2014, 4:03 PM On Sun, Nov 09, 2014 at 03:20:30PM -0600, golinux wrote: Please do little research before opening mouth and inserting foot. There is no comparison between Refracta and bloated offerings like Ubuntu or Mint. In fact, it is downright insulting. In case you missed it, Refracta is a respin NOT a derivative distro. There's no need to be so harsh. You are over-reacting. Doug's comparison to Mint was simply to compare the way Mint derives from Ubuntu to the way Refracta derives from Debian, and that seems perfectly reasonable to me. Please assume good faith from fellow members on debian-user. LOL! And that was the revised, user-friendly version of that post! You should have seen the first draft!! Mentioning those distros is like waving a red flag at a bull (or in this case, cow would be more accurate). ;) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cd5ad7c21f3ab5db926176b42606d...@riseup.net
Re: Has the systemd fork already happened?
On Sun, 11/9/14, Hendrik Boom wrote: Subject: Re: Has the systemd fork already happened? To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Sunday, November 9, 2014, 9:10 PM [snip] From what I've heard since I made the original post, it turns out to be a lot closer to Debian than I originally thought. It seems they use Debian's repositories, along with some extra of their own. It would appear to be much closer to Debian than, say, to Ubuntu. I'd say it's almost, but not quite, a Debian blend. Now I'll wait for someone to correct me. :) -- hendrik No correction from here. Sounds pretty on the mark to me. Refracta definitely does not suffer from SNS* syndrome . . . which is one reason it feels like 'home' to me. :) golinux *Shiny New S**t -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/c39c2b1084abdf4d65a178a680979...@riseup.net
Re: systemd - so much energy wasted in quarreling
On Mon, 11/10/14, Hans wrote: Subject: systemd - so much energy wasted in quarreling To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Monday, November 10, 2014, 11:23 AM Hi all, [cut] - If you do not like the behaviour of Leonard Poettering, do not quarrel with him. Hey, I guess,he wants a good system, lik us, too. Help him, if you can. As a developer, improve his code, as a user send him feedback or bugs. - If you hate everything, Leonard does, and do not want to involve him, but like some of his solutions in systemd, take the code and improve it. Make a fork, if you wish. I can only repeat: It is open source, GPL, do everything you want to do with it. You are allowed and invited to do so. But please stop wasting energy in blaming Leonard or systemd! Use your energy for better things. To say: to improve debian. [cut] You could at least spell the perp's name correctly if you are going to come to his defense. It's LENNART! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/23dcad889e0065efc4c5643e47a7e...@riseup.net
Re: Installing an Alternative Init?
On Wed, 11/12/14, Tanstaafl wrote: Subject: Re: Installing an Alternative Init? To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2014, 5:10 AM On 11/11/2014 3:33 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote: Actually, there's a patch (thank you Kenshi). It has not been applied. Hence, to use it right now, one has to build a custom version of the installer. I hope, that post the initial Jessie release, the deboostrap and installer maintainers will apply the patch. Since the bug is so old (dates back to wheezy), and a patch exists and still hasn't been applied, I think it is likely that they simply don't *want* to fix this bug, since that would negatively impact the desire to get as many people using systemd as possible, so they can be counted in the stats of 'satisfied systemd users', even if many/most don't even *know* they're running a different init system. Exactly. When your intent is (Linux) world domination, principles like choice and transparency become very inconvenient. The Mintard droolers won't even notice but I can certainly feel the noose tightening . . . -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/d8d01a007f3aa7e060ee7ac52ca5d...@riseup.net
Re: Web site conformance and various browsers
On Mon, 11/17/14, songbird wrote: Subject: Web site conformance and various browsers To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Monday, November 17, 2014, 7:45 AM sometimes i have issues with a website and i cannot tell if it is a problem with the browser or a problem with the website. obviously i am not a website developer so this sort of issue isn't clear where i need to poke at things more... are there any tools available which help sort that out (like one that says "This page conforms to standards X and Y, but violates a for this part") etc.? most the time i use Iceweasel (most current versions available in testing, sid or experimental) or Midori. Midori seems to do better and I'm not sure why as i thought that it used the same basic infrastructure as Iceweasel. any web developers who struggle with this and if I'm missing something obvious (like use a different browser like Opera or ...)? thanks! songbird If the page is compliant with http://validator.w3.org/ standards there shouldn't be a problem with proper display. Could also be an addon or about:config setting set by you causing problems. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/a538394b85173ad46036dbb3e2ace...@riseup.net
Not this again
UGH! Looks like Gregory Smith has returned with a new handle - SystemBlues. Does anybody read his swill? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/b4e40d99450897148912c230f1fc8...@riseup.net
Re: the developers have spoken
On Wed, 11/19/14, songbird wrote: Subject: the developers have spoken To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Wednesday, November 19, 2014, 8:11 AM the vote is in. [cut] My beloved Debian, RIP. Very sad that the ride will be over when when Squeeze and Wheezy (and possibly Jessie - jury is still out) get to EOL . . . golinux (soon to be linuxrip) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/8933c0d38c9721073b120f4a2b8e6...@riseup.net
Re: Modular-debian: a list for discussing init-system alternatives
On Wed, 11/19/14, Joel Roth wrote: Subject: Modular-debian: a list for discussing init-system alternatives To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Wednesday, November 19, 2014, 4:00 PM Dear List, First I'd like to thank all who contribute to debian-user, and make it an invaluable resource for the Debian community. Despite others disagreements, I've seen those who post to the list have in common a generosity and enthusiasm to solve the issues related to administering Debian Linux. This is an extraordinary supplemental announcement that a separate list is available[1] to discuss the issues related to working with various init systems on Debian. Considering that it could contribute to conserving the resources of debian-user, we propose to announce it here every two months over the next year. Here is the statement of purpose: Debian has recently introduced systemd as default init system, replacing the long-serviceable sysvinit system. As dependencies on systemd diffuse through the Debian package ecosystem, users will tend to be forced to use it. This list is to discuss ways to maintain a more modular Debian ecosystem, and to avoid snowballing dependencies on a single init system. Those who are frustrated with Debian and considering the merits of the init systems, package management and admin environment of other OSs are also invited to bring their discussions to modular-debian, rather than burdening debian-user. With kind regards Joel Roth, list administrator 1. http://www.freelists.org/list/modular-debian I am on that list but have not seen much of anything useful as yet. Steve Litt thumps his chest and writes interminably long treatises. There is much talk of other options - BSDs etc. But I'm not seeing that much effort into actually trying to fix Debian. It's been a disappointment to me (as has debianfork). Refracta is quietly working on Jessie and to date getting the job done as is dzz and his Exe GNU/Linux offering. It's anybody's guess what the future will hold. I'm watching from the sidelines at present. golinux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/f70f13e220ee64f11755c1fd3ee07...@riseup.net
Re: the developers have spoken
On Wed, 11/19/14, Scott Ferguson wrote: Subject: Re: the developers have spoken To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Wednesday, November 19, 2014, 7:25 PM [cut] You must be thinking of someone else. Indeed, after re-reading, I am (Golinux). My apologies for that. I have no idea why my name is referenced here. I am still using Debian and probably will through EOL of Wheezy (and possibly a systemd-free Jessie ie refracta after that). golinux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1f4a25513834058cc8732ba930d96...@riseup.net
Re: Got skype 4.2 to connect again
Hans wrote: Hi folks, I managed to get an older version of skype (the multiarch debian package) getting connected to skype. As you might have noticed, the new version is pulseaudio needed /what a crap!) and the older version (4.2) inhibits to connect to the server. So I found a simple solution: - Install the 4.2 package. - start a hexeditor and open the file /usr/bin/skype - search for "4.2.0.11" and change this to "4.3.0.37" - save the file - restart skype and - voila! It is now connecting to the server again! No pulseaudio needed any more! Yeah! Have fun! Works like a charm! How in the world did you figure that out? Hugo --- Great tip! There is a similar workaround for the Tab Killer add-on for FF. Just change the number in the configuration file and it works too. golinux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/3014569a629b6414edd7e30706d81...@riseup.net
Choose your side on the Linux divide
Choose your side on the Linux divide To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Choose your side on the Linux divide From: Steve Litt Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 18:44:23 -0400 Message-id: <20140825184423.56668...@mydesq2.domain.cxm> Hi all, Perhaps the horse I was beating wasn't as dead as I thought. Check out this article by Infoworld's Paul Venezia: http://www.infoworld.com/d/data-center/choose-your-side-the-linux-divide-248950?source=IFWNLE_nlt_daily_pm_2014-08-25 Paul Venezia said everything I wanted to say, and said it so much better. SteveT Nice one! That about says it all. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/bb4549c3309265ee5cc3af4c679be...@riseup.net
Re: Choose your side on the Linux divide
On Tue, 8/26/14, B wrote: Subject: Re: Choose your side on the Linux divide To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Tuesday, August 26, 2014, 11:16 PM On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 21:18:23 -0400 Miles Fidelman wrote: To some material that at least one list member (me) found very useful and informative. You're not alone. I followed all links given by the article, which convince me of one thing: I don't want this on my machines, especially on servers (and a recent unpleasant problem raised by systemd getting in emergency mode just for a bad line into /etc/fstab (that never caused any problem with sysV) has finished to convince me). The 'kernel debug systemd bug' thread is also edifying enough… I strongly hope Debian will still keep sysV available without any systemd part involved; otherwise I'm afraid it'll abruptly end 15 years of fidelity. Jean-Yves --- As systemd continues to send its tentacles deeper into your system and applications, your computer will be pretty useless without it. Where the fleeing refugees go remains to be determined. Perhaps Debian will come to its senses so it won't come to that . . . -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/935bdd283bce8cf52e790a132d6fc...@riseup.net
Re: Let's have a vote! I was just banned from debian forum for posting a systemd critical message.
On Thu, 9/25/14, Gregory Smith wrote: Subject: Re: Let's have a vote! I was just banned from debian forum for posting a systemd critical message. To: "row...@ptd.net" Cc: "debian-user@lists.debian.org" Date: Thursday, September 25, 2014, 11:51 AM I was just banned from debian forum for posting a systemd critical message. I posted the message found here: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/09/msg01834.html It was deleted twice and then: You have been permanently banned from this board. Please contact the Board Administrator for more information. Reason given for ban: You know why A ban has been issued on your username. --- Your post would be welcomed at http://www.debianuserforums.org/ (DUF). It is a 'free speech' zone. DUF was started a few years ago as a response to 'iron-fist' behavior similar to what you experienced over at http://forums.debian.net/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/9d8f83fb4a35c65f5fb4996452e94...@riseup.net
Kernel failure
On squeeze LTS. Upgraded the kernel 2 days ago. Everything was going OK. Then out of nowhere I get a kernel failure popup after coming out of suspend. Everything seems to be working OK so I've just gone on about my business. But don't want to get bit down the road. What should I do? This has never happened in the 10 years I've been using Linux so I'm a little lost. Here's the log: Kernel failure message 1: [ cut here ] WARNING: at /build/linux-2.6-bBJNRm/linux-2.6-2.6.32/debian/build/source_i386_none/kernel/rcutree.c:277 rcu_exit_nohz+0x43/0x5d() Hardware name: P35-DS3L Modules linked in: ata_piix :00:1f.5: PCI INT B -> GSI 19 (level, low) -> IRQ 19 xt_limit xt_tcpudp ipt_LOG ata_piix :00:1f.5: setting latency timer to 64 ipt_MASQUERADE xt_DSCP ipt_REJECT nf_conntrack_irc nf_conntrack_ftp xt_state sco bridge stp bnep rfcomm acpi_cpufreq l2cap bluetooth cpufreq_powersave rfkill cpufreq_conservative cpufreq_stats cpufreq_userspace ppdev lp binfmt_misc fuse iptable_nat nf_nat nf_conntrack_ipv4 nf_conntrack nf_defrag_ipv4 iptable_mangle iptable_filter ip_tables x_tables ext4 jbd2 crc16 it87 hwmon_vid coretemp loop snd_hda_codec_realtek snd_hda_intel i2c_i801 nvidia(P) snd_hda_codec snd_hwdep parport_pc i2c_core processor snd_pcm snd_seq snd_timer snd_seq_device evdev parport snd soundcore snd_page_alloc pcspkr psmouse serio_raw ext3 jbd mbcache sg sr_mod cdrom sd_mod crc_t10dif ata_generic uhci_hcd r8169 mii pata_jmicron thermal ata_piix thermal_sys ehci_hcd libata button scsi_mod usbcore nls_base [last unloaded: scsi_wait_scan] Pid: 0, comm: swapper Tainted: PW 2.6.32-5-686 #1 Call Trace: [] ? warn_slowpath_common+0x5e/0x8a [] ? warn_slowpath_null+0xa/0xc [] ? rcu_exit_nohz+0x43/0x5d [] ? tick_nohz_restart_sched_tick+0x6d/0x12d [] ? cpu_idle+0x9b/0xa3 ---[ end trace 150783a4a64aa323 ]--- Please cc to the above address. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/2e0fee82edc3604894a05892b660b...@riseup.net
Re: Kernel failure
On Tue, 12/16/14, Kushal Kumaran wrote: Subject: Re: Kernel failure To: "Go Linux" Cc: "Debian User" Date: Tuesday, December 16, 2014, 12:18 AM For problems with squeeze lts release, send email to the debian-lts[1] mailing list. Given that your system is basically functional, and also using a proprietary kernel module, it's likely the bug will not be considered severe enough for a fix in squeeze, but I guess it couldn't hurt to get their opinion. [1] https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/FAQ#Who_will_provide_updates_for_LTS.3F -- regards, kushal Thanks very much for the suggestion. Will post to the debian-lts list presently. I'm suspecting it was just a transient condition that caused the error because everything has been just fine since. Of course, any error is always disconcerting . . . gholinux -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/9b27ea38bc63131653a9f7a18860e...@riseup.net
