Re: Apt error

[john doe]

On 4/4/2019 4:16 AM, Joe B wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I added a link to sources.list when I run apt update the link is dead and
> doesn’t resolve. I removed link from sources.list and ran apt update and it
> keeps looking for the dead link. How do I make this stop? Reboot didn’t
> resolve
>

Are you sure that you removed all references of the dead mirror in
'/etc/apt/*'?

--
John Doe

Re: Apt error

[Pierre Fourès]

You maybe duplicated it, or added it in the sources.list.d/ directory ?

You could run the following command to list out all active references
in your current configuration.

grep -R "deb " /etc/apt/sources.list*

Cheers,
Pierre.

Le jeu. 4 avr. 2019 à 10:50, john doe  a écrit :
>
> On 4/4/2019 4:16 AM, Joe B wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I added a link to sources.list when I run apt update the link is dead and
> > doesn’t resolve. I removed link from sources.list and ran apt update and it
> > keeps looking for the dead link. How do I make this stop? Reboot didn’t
> > resolve
> >
>
> Are you sure that you removed all references of the dead mirror in
> '/etc/apt/*'?
>
> --
> John Doe
>

Re: Has anybody run into problems setting noatime for the executable files on a Wheezy system (or any newer system)?

[Stefan Krusche]

Am Donnerstag, 4. April 2019 schrieb rhkra...@gmail.com:
> I'd like to set noatime (instead of relatime) for all of the
> partitions on my SSD, which basically includes all the executables
> (except for a few I've written myself and keep in a separate top
> level directory on my HDD).
>
> I've seen a statement some where that one needs to be careful about
> setting noatime for executables because -- well I don't remember the
> reason well enough to repeat it correctly here, something to do with
> some executables checking the atime (I guess) on their files (or
> files they use).
>
> If anybody is still running Wheezy and has tried setting noatime for
> most of the exectables, did you run into any problems?
>
> How about anybody running Jessie or anything newer?

I'm running Debian/Devuan on SSD since June 2018 with all partitions
flagged 'noatime' but /boot (ext2).  No problems so far that I have
noticed.

HTH

Kind Regards,
Stefan

'synaptic' removed from buster

[David]

People accustomed to using synaptic might want to begin considering
alternative tools, because synaptic has been removed from buster.

More info:
https://tracker.debian.org/news/1037065/synaptic-removed-from-testing/
https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/synaptic
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=818366#55
https://release.debian.org/buster/freeze_policy.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/b7ylny/synaptic_no_longer_in_buster_should_i_start/

Re: 'synaptic' removed from buster

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

On 04.04.2019 15:52, David wrote:
> People accustomed to using synaptic might want to begin considering
> alternative tools, because synaptic has been removed from buster.
>
> More info:
> https://tracker.debian.org/news/1037065/synaptic-removed-from-testing/
> https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/synaptic
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=818366#55
> https://release.debian.org/buster/freeze_policy.html
> https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/b7ylny/synaptic_no_longer_in_buster_should_i_start/
>
Considering the date, it must be an April Fool's joke.
If it is not, there is nothing preventing it's return to repositories
some time after. It happened with other useful and popular packages before.

-- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄ 

Re: 'synaptic' removed from buster

[Brad Rogers]

On Thu, 4 Apr 2019 15:58:33 +0500
"Alexander V. Makartsev"  wrote:

Hello Alexander,

>Considering the date, it must be an April Fool's joke.

It's not.

>If it is not, there is nothing preventing it's return to repositories
>some time after. It happened with other useful and popular packages
>before.

Indeed.  Reading the bug report demonstrates that ppl are keen for it to
be re-instated.  However, not working properly in Gnome is considered
(understandably, IMO) a show-stopper.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
It's not your heart, it's your bank I want to break
It's Yer Money - Wonder Stuff


pgpZnXn4dBJz1.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Debian bridge with one VLAN iface - after upgrade from Deb 8 to 9 tc filters are bypassed for VLAN traffic?

[kaskada]

Hello,



thank you.






-- Původní e-mail --
Od: deloptes 
Komu: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Datum: 4. 4. 2019 1:32:08
Předmět: Re: Debian bridge with one VLAN iface - after upgrade from Deb 8 to
9 tc filters are bypassed for VLAN traffic?
"kask...@email.cz wrote:

> This setup worked smoothly for years until I upgraded Debian 8 do Debian 9

> (which I didn`t like to do but I had to, lets say). And now, in Debian 9
> only customer traffic which is not TAGged can reach tc filters and than is

> properly send to appropriate tc class and shaped. BUT traffic with TAG 500

> bypasses tc filters which means it goes just to tc default class (which is

> not good) - yes TAGget traffic is not terminated, just is not passing tc
> filters
>

Very confusing statement - is tagged traffic terminated or not? If you
configure VLAN on the interface you terminate. ""
 "
I`m sorry, I used wrong words. Yes, VLAN is terminated on that eth1.500 
interface. I meant that traffic in VLAN is not "DROPped" when passing the 
bridge/whole Debian server. It is just unTAGged and not going to tc filters.
 




None of interfaces including eth1.500 VLAN iface have IP/mask settings on 
them. All interfaces are just bridged together. The ony IP settings is set
on the bridge just for management purposes, not for routing/terminating 
customers traffic. It is just pure bridge with traffic shaper. In fact it is
very simple configuration.



"
>
>
>
> I guess I have to turn on some 0/1"switch" somewhere in the Debian 9... 
> But please, do you know which switch?

In stretch the naming of the interfaces changed and systemd also. I would 
firstly eliminate both for the sake of simplicity.
"



I`ve upgraded Debian using:

apt-get update

apt-get upgrade

apt-get dist-upgrade

and so on... procedure. So names of interfaces remained the same, all other
parts of the "shaping system" which need to know interface names works fine.

Could systemd really be connected to this issue?

 
"Then go through

https://wiki.debian.org/TrafficControl
https://manpages.debian.org/stretch/iproute2/tc.8.en.html
"



Yes, I`ll check it. There must by some change in some part of the system 
between Debian 8 and 9. 

 
"
Unfortunately I do not have the honor to use vlans on bridged interfaces 
with debian and TC - means you have some firewall/router.

regards

"
Best regards Pep. 
"

"

Re: 'synaptic' removed from buster

[Curt]

On 2019-04-04, David  wrote:
> People accustomed to using synaptic might want to begin considering
> alternative tools, because synaptic has been removed from buster.
>
> More info:
> https://tracker.debian.org/news/1037065/synaptic-removed-from-testing/
> https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/synaptic
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=818366#55
> https://release.debian.org/buster/freeze_policy.html
> https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/b7ylny/synaptic_no_longer_in_buster_should_i_start/
>
>

Owlett's gonna be pissed.

Synaptic doesn't play nice with the Wayland protocol, Gnome desktop with
Wayland is the new default desktop/login mode in Buster, so Synaptic's out? 

Lots of veteran newbies will be seriously discombobulated if they don't have 
their Synaptic, I'd guess.

https://wiki.debian.org/Wayland

Re: How did relatime get set on my Wheezy system?

[rhkramer]

On Wednesday, April 03, 2019 08:06:37 PM bw wrote:
> In-Reply-To: <201904031938.34134.rhkra...@gmail.com>
> >What I don't understand, for example, is where and how relatime got set
> >(and maybe some of the other parameters).
> 
> On stretch system, man mount has under "FILESYSTEM-INDEPENDENT MOUNT
> OPTIONS" a section about relatime:
> 
> Since Linux 2.6.30, the kernel defaults to the behavior
> provided by this option (unless noatime was specified), and
> the strictatime option is required to obtain traditional
> semantics.  In addition, since Linux 2.6.30, the file's last
> access time is always updated if it is more than 1 day old.
> 
> >Finally (well, I have another question that I'll post separately), I'm
> >assuming that I can include noatime in the /etc/fstab file I change the
> >entry for the partition I am reformatting?  (That is where noatime is set
> >on my Jessie system.)
> 
> I've used noatime in fstab for a long time that way.  Check man mount and
> see what wheezy says, not sure about the history there...

Ahh, it says the same thing in Wheezy's man mount -- thanks!

Re: 'synaptic' removed from buster

[Francisco M Neto]

On Thu, 2019-04-04 at 12:33 +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
> If it is not, there is nothing preventing it's return to repositories
> > some time after. It happened with other useful and popular packages
> > before.
> 
> Indeed.  Reading the bug report demonstrates that ppl are keen for it to
> be re-instated.  However, not working properly in Gnome is considered
> (understandably, IMO) a show-stopper.

What is the problem between Synaptic and Gnome? I've been using both
without a single hiccup for years...

--Francisco


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: 'synaptic' removed from buster

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 04 April 2019 06:52:35 David wrote:

> People accustomed to using synaptic might want to begin considering
> alternative tools, because synaptic has been removed from buster.
>
> More info:
> https://tracker.debian.org/news/1037065/synaptic-removed-from-testing/
> https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/synaptic
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=818366#55
> https://release.debian.org/buster/freeze_policy.html
> https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/b7ylny/synaptic_no_longer_in_
>buster_should_i_start/

We need tar, hot tar, and feathers, lots of them.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: 'synaptic' removed from buster

[Curt]

On 2019-04-04, Francisco M Neto  wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, 2019-04-04 at 12:33 +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
>> If it is not, there is nothing preventing it's return to repositories
>> > some time after. It happened with other useful and popular packages
>> > before.
>>=20
>> Indeed.  Reading the bug report demonstrates that ppl are keen for it to
>> be re-instated.  However, not working properly in Gnome is considered
>> (understandably, IMO) a show-stopper.
>
>   What is the problem between Synaptic and Gnome? I've been using both
> without a single hiccup for years...
>

My understanding is the problem lies in the Gnome/Wayland combo (which
is the default combo starting with Buster).

Re: 'synaptic' removed from buster

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 04 April 2019 07:33:13 Brad Rogers wrote:

> On Thu, 4 Apr 2019 15:58:33 +0500
> "Alexander V. Makartsev"  wrote:
>
> Hello Alexander,
>
> >Considering the date, it must be an April Fool's joke.
>
> It's not.
>
> >If it is not, there is nothing preventing it's return to repositories
> >some time after. It happened with other useful and popular packages
> >before.
>
> Indeed.  Reading the bug report demonstrates that ppl are keen for it
> to be re-instated.  However, not working properly in Gnome is
> considered (understandably, IMO) a show-stopper.

For gnome maybe.I can't nuke that paranoid POS quick enough.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: 'synaptic' removed from buster

[Reco]

On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 09:20:51AM -0300, Francisco M Neto wrote:
> On Thu, 2019-04-04 at 12:33 +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
> > If it is not, there is nothing preventing it's return to repositories
> > > some time after. It happened with other useful and popular packages
> > > before.
> > 
> > Indeed.  Reading the bug report demonstrates that ppl are keen for it to
> > be re-instated.  However, not working properly in Gnome is considered
> > (understandably, IMO) a show-stopper.
> 
>   What is the problem between Synaptic and Gnome? I've been using both
> without a single hiccup for years...

The official reason is "'sudo synaptic' does not work with Wayland
session, therefore GNOME users will be confused". Also, comment 50 from
#818366.

The *unofficial* one is the existence of "gnome-packagekit". The thing
needs users, and this is one of the ways of getting them.

Reco

Re: 'synaptic' removed from buster

[Brad Rogers]

On Thu, 04 Apr 2019 09:20:51 -0300
Francisco M Neto  wrote:

Hello Francisco,

>   What is the problem between Synaptic and Gnome? I've been using

To add to what Curt and Reco have said:  Running Synaptic using a
Wayland/Gnome combo,by clicking on an icon, it doesn't start.  Not very
helpful, I think you'll agree. Especially for software that's aimed
squarely at GUI users.  Started from a shell an error is, however,
reported.  It's unfortunate that, as yet, a remedy has not been
forthcoming.

I would hope that if somebody does come up with a fix, Synaptic would be
reintroduced to Buster quickly.

Of course, anybody that already has Synaptic installed won't lose it,
it'll simply be marked as 'local/obsolete'.  Only if/when its remaining
installed causes a conflict somewhere, will Synaptic be considered for
removal.

Full bug report thread starts here:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=818366
It's not overly long, nor too technical - by which I mean: *I* understood
it, so it can't be that hard.   :-)

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
White people going to school, where they teach you to be thick
White Riot - The Clash


pgpdHQWU56uYl.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: How did relatime get set on my Wheezy system?

[Markus Schönhaber]

Rhkramer, 4.4.2019 01:38 +0200:

> What puzzles me is this -- when I look at /etc/fstab for some of the other 
> partitions that are already ext4 I see entries like this:
> 
> # /var was on /dev/sdb8 during installation
> UUID=874304c9-36c6-4572-909b-c4c75d13269a /varext4defaults
> 
> 0   2
> 
> When I look at the same partition in /etc/mtab, I see this:
> 
> /dev/sdb8 /var ext4 rw,relatime,user_xattr,barrier=1,data=ordered 0 0
> 
> What I don't understand, for example, is where and how relatime got set (and 
> maybe some of the other parameters).  

relatime is the default (unless you specify otherwise)
man mount contains this:
>   relatime
>   [...]
>   Since  Linux  2.6.30,  the  kernel defaults to the behavior provided by
>   this option (unless noatime was specified), and the strictatime option
>   is required to obtain traditional semantics.  In addition, since
>   Linux 2.6.30, the file's last access time is always updated if it is
>   more than 1 day old.

-- 
Regards
  mks

Re: 'synaptic' removed from buster

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 04 April 2019 09:02:13 Reco wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 09:20:51AM -0300, Francisco M Neto wrote:
> > On Thu, 2019-04-04 at 12:33 +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
> > > If it is not, there is nothing preventing it's return to
> > > repositories
> > >
> > > > some time after. It happened with other useful and popular
> > > > packages before.
> > >
> > > Indeed.  Reading the bug report demonstrates that ppl are keen for
> > > it to be re-instated.  However, not working properly in Gnome is
> > > considered (understandably, IMO) a show-stopper.
> >
> > What is the problem between Synaptic and Gnome? I've been using
> > both without a single hiccup for years...
>
> The official reason is "'sudo synaptic' does not work with Wayland
> session, therefore GNOME users will be confused". Also, comment 50
> from #818366.
>
> The *unofficial* one is the existence of "gnome-packagekit". The thing
> needs users, and this is one of the ways of getting them.
>
> Reco

I frankly don't care if it needs users. To get users, it has to work. If 
it doesn't work at least as well as synaptic, it will never get the 
users. If thats not plain enough to the people making these descisions, 
tuff luck.  This stuff gets its users by working, and gnome has not 
recently demonstrated that. All I've seen in stretch is a roadblock to 
getting anything useful done.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: 'synaptic' removed from buster

[David]

On Thu, 4 Apr 2019 at 23:21, Curt  wrote:
> On 2019-04-04, David  wrote:

> > People accustomed to using synaptic might want to begin considering
> > alternative tools, because synaptic has been removed from buster.

> Owlett's gonna be pissed.

On Thu, 4 Apr 2019 at 00:26, Richard Owlett  wrote:

> At this point, the same cognoscenti who bemoan Linux lacking market
> penetration tell him to go read some techie manuals and perform arcane
> incantations. As true ostriches they insist the problem is "operator error".

Ok, let's avoid arcane incantations then ...

Maybe it's time to try Ubuntu, they do a MATE version. [1]
Abandon the ostriches and embrace the market-penetrating Bionic Beaver.

[1] https://ubuntu-mate.org/download/

Getting amd64 stretch netinstall to work.

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all

I am  today, going to make my 6th attempt to make the stretch netinstall 
work.

I think I have sussed the failure mode, which seems to be that by the 
time its finslly gets around to installing grub, its too far into the 
diksk for the dumb bios on this old Asus mobo to find it, so this time I 
am going to add a /boot as first partition. At 2 or 3 hundred megs.

And I'd like to do this with gparted in such a way as to skip the 
partitioning. I don't care if it formats the partitions I give it. But I 
do NOT want them futzt with. I've even had your partitioner rearrange 
the partitions/ putting a /boot partition 300G's into a 1T drive, 
although that was with a previous version.  So I'm hoping it won't do 
that ever again.

So how _exactly_ do I make the installer take what it finds, format it, 
and just get on with it?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Getting amd64 stretch netinstall to work.

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 10:39:19AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> I am  today, going to make my 6th attempt to make the stretch netinstall 
> work.
> 
> I think I have sussed the failure mode, which seems to be that by the 
> time its finslly gets around to installing grub, its too far into the 
> diksk for the dumb bios on this old Asus mobo to find it, so this time I 
> am going to add a /boot as first partition. At 2 or 3 hundred megs.

Are you trying to install the boot loader portion of grub to a PARTITION?
Instead of to the front of a DISK?

The boot loader part of GRUB goes in the first bytes of the disk.  That's
where the BIOS reads it from, and then executes it.

That boot loader portion then looks for its configuration file in your
Debian /boot partition, which can be anywhere on the disk.

Or at least, that's how things work in legacy BIOS.  (U)EFI is a different
story.  Since you claim this is an "old" machine and even used the word
"bios", I assume you're using legacy BIOS and MBR (not GPT) disklabels.

When you partition a disk with an MBR disklabel, you leave a small gap
at the front of the disk for the boot loader and partition table.  They
go into that unpartitioned space.

The Debian installer already handles all of this for you, even in manual
partitioning mode (which is what I always use).  I can't even guess how
you've failed this process 5 times, unless it's because you keep putting
GRUB in the wrong place.

Re: Getting amd64 stretch netinstall to work.

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 04 April 2019 10:55:23 Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 10:39:19AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > I am  today, going to make my 6th attempt to make the stretch
> > netinstall work.
> >
> > I think I have sussed the failure mode, which seems to be that by
> > the time its finslly gets around to installing grub, its too far
> > into the diksk for the dumb bios on this old Asus mobo to find it,
> > so this time I am going to add a /boot as first partition. At 2 or 3
> > hundred megs.
>
> Are you trying to install the boot loader portion of grub to a
> PARTITION? Instead of to the front of a DISK?
>
> The boot loader part of GRUB goes in the first bytes of the disk. 
> That's where the BIOS reads it from, and then executes it.
>
> That boot loader portion then looks for its configuration file in your
> Debian /boot partition, which can be anywhere on the disk.
>
> Or at least, that's how things work in legacy BIOS.  (U)EFI is a
> different story.  Since you claim this is an "old" machine and even
> used the word "bios", I assume you're using legacy BIOS and MBR (not
> GPT) disklabels.

Yes.

> When you partition a disk with an MBR disklabel, you leave a small gap
> at the front of the disk for the boot loader and partition table. 
> They go into that unpartitioned space.
>
> The Debian installer already handles all of this for you, even in
> manual partitioning mode (which is what I always use).  I can't even
> guess how you've failed this process 5 times, unless it's because you
> keep putting GRUB in the wrong place.

In the mbr, like it wants to. On the reboot if it ever touches the disk, 
the led blink is too fast to see, all I see on screen after post is a 
blinking cursor at the upper left corner. I'd give it a while to e2fsck 
the drive, but theres zero drive activity.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: 'synaptic' removed from buster

[Reco]

Hi.

On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 10:15:40AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 04 April 2019 09:02:13 Reco wrote:
> > The *unofficial* one is the existence of "gnome-packagekit". The thing
> > needs users, and this is one of the ways of getting them.
> 
> I frankly don't care if it needs users. To get users, it has to work.

Quite the contrary. To get users it just needs to be written by a
certain company. Three-letter acronym company, to be specific.


> If it doesn't work at least as well as synaptic, it will never get the 
> users.

"gnome-packagekit" touts itself as a "Graphical distribution neutral
package manager for GNOME". There are other distributions where users
don't have the alternative.
But once again, Debian project choose to follow so called "industry
leaders".


> If thats not plain enough to the people making these descisions, tuff
> luck.  This stuff gets its users by working, and gnome has not
> recently demonstrated that.

Please be careful. There are GNOME users here, at this list. Someone
might get offended :)


> All I've seen in stretch is a roadblock to getting anything useful
> done.

This one is for the buster users. Stretch isn't affected.

Reco

Re: Getting amd64 stretch netinstall to work.

[Charlie Kravetz]

On Thu, 4 Apr 2019 11:09:13 -0400
Gene Heskett  wrote:

>On Thursday 04 April 2019 10:55:23 Greg Wooledge wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 10:39:19AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:  
>> > I am  today, going to make my 6th attempt to make the stretch
>> > netinstall work.
>> >
>> > I think I have sussed the failure mode, which seems to be that by
>> > the time its finslly gets around to installing grub, its too far
>> > into the diksk for the dumb bios on this old Asus mobo to find it,
>> > so this time I am going to add a /boot as first partition. At 2 or 3
>> > hundred megs.  

I wonder if that long delay is while it is fscking the hard drive? It
can take quite a while with a drive that big.


>>
>> Are you trying to install the boot loader portion of grub to a
>> PARTITION? Instead of to the front of a DISK?
>>
>> The boot loader part of GRUB goes in the first bytes of the disk. 
>> That's where the BIOS reads it from, and then executes it.
>>
>> That boot loader portion then looks for its configuration file in your
>> Debian /boot partition, which can be anywhere on the disk.
>>
>> Or at least, that's how things work in legacy BIOS.  (U)EFI is a
>> different story.  Since you claim this is an "old" machine and even
>> used the word "bios", I assume you're using legacy BIOS and MBR (not
>> GPT) disklabels.  
>
>Yes.
>
>> When you partition a disk with an MBR disklabel, you leave a small gap
>> at the front of the disk for the boot loader and partition table. 
>> They go into that unpartitioned space.
>>
>> The Debian installer already handles all of this for you, even in
>> manual partitioning mode (which is what I always use).  I can't even
>> guess how you've failed this process 5 times, unless it's because you
>> keep putting GRUB in the wrong place.  
>
>In the mbr, like it wants to. On the reboot if it ever touches the disk, 
>the led blink is too fast to see, all I see on screen after post is a 
>blinking cursor at the upper left corner. I'd give it a while to e2fsck 
>the drive, but theres zero drive activity.
>
>Cheers, Gene Heskett


-- 
Charlie Kravetz
Linux Registered User Number 425914
[http://linuxcounter.net/user/425914.html]
Never let anyone steal your DREAM.   [http://keepingdreams.com]

Wheezy: adding myself to the sudo group using usermod

[rhkramer]

(On Wheezy) I've been trying to add myself to the sudo group with the usermod 
command.

As root, I've tried most of the permutations of this:

usermod -a -G sudo 

None of them have worked -- any suggestions?

(I have checked using groups (as username), and even have opened fresh 
terminals.  Hmm, maybe I have to reboot?  I hope not, I don't want to do that 
in the near future.)

Re: Getting amd64 stretch netinstall to work.

[Felix Miata]

Gene Heskett composed on 2019-04-04 10:39 (UTC-0400):

> So how _exactly_ do I make the installer take what it finds, format it, 
> and just get on with it?

First select manual partitioning (all these are the same screen):
https://www.howtoforge.com/images/debian_stretch_minimal_server/debian-9-server-img-16.png
https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/images/inst-partman.png
https://photonsphere.org/img/PartitionDisks.png

Then select the disk (should resemble one of these):
https://www.tecmint.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Select-free-space-to-partition.png
https://www.tecmint.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Overview-of-disks.png
https://photonsphere.org/img/PartitionDisksManual3.png

Choose the partition to configure (I think these are actually the same screen as
previous group, except with disk's partitions expanded):
https://www.pontikis.net/blog/media/2013/04/debian-7-wheezy-rc1-lamp-server-setup-step-by-step/post/VBX_DEBIAN7_31_partitioning.png
https://blog.sleeplessbeastie.eu/assets/uploads/2013/10/debian_install-partition_disks-partitions_end.png

Here's the screen where the main business gets done, selecting mount point, 
format
type, mount options, volume label:
https://www.tecmint.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Swap-Partition-Details.png
https://photonsphere.org/img/PartitionDisksBootPartitionSettings.png
https://www.pontikis.net/blog/media/2013/04/debian-7-wheezy-rc1-lamp-server-setup-step-by-step/post/VBX_DEBIAN7_25_partitioning.png

Select mount point detail screen:
https://www.pontikis.net/blog/media/2013/04/debian-7-wheezy-rc1-lamp-server-setup-step-by-step/post/VBX_DEBIAN7_26_partitioning.png

If I knew how to get my own screencaps from a text install on real hardware 
(not a
virtual machine) I would make my own web page to do what the Debian Handbook 
seems
can't be bothered to do. It would probably be somewhat like
https://www.pontikis.net/blog/debian-7-wheezy-rc1-lamp-server-setup-step-by-step
except the images would be big enough to see without having to open each in 
turn.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: Wheezy: adding myself to the sudo group using usermod

[Brian]

On Thu 04 Apr 2019 at 12:54:52 -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:

> (On Wheezy) I've been trying to add myself to the sudo group with the usermod 
> command.

vigr is your friend.

-- 
Brian.

Re: 'synaptic' removed from buster

[Joe]

On Thu, 4 Apr 2019 16:02:13 +0300
Reco  wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 09:20:51AM -0300, Francisco M Neto wrote:
> > On Thu, 2019-04-04 at 12:33 +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:  
> > > If it is not, there is nothing preventing it's return to
> > > repositories  
> > > > some time after. It happened with other useful and popular
> > > > packages before.  
> > > 
> > > Indeed.  Reading the bug report demonstrates that ppl are keen
> > > for it to be re-instated.  However, not working properly in Gnome
> > > is considered (understandably, IMO) a show-stopper.  
> > 
> > What is the problem between Synaptic and Gnome? I've been
> > using both without a single hiccup for years...  
> 
> The official reason is "'sudo synaptic' does not work with Wayland
> session, therefore GNOME users will be confused". Also, comment 50
> from #818366.
> 
I recall having trouble, twice, with a new Synaptic and its pkexec
invocation. I was probably supposed to do something obscure with
policykit, but instead I switched the menu entry to gksudo.

-- 
Joe

Re: Wheezy: adding myself to the sudo group using usermod

[Reco]

Hi.

On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 12:54:52PM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> (On Wheezy) I've been trying to add myself to the sudo group with the usermod 
> command.
> 
> As root, I've tried most of the permutations of this:
> 
> usermod -a -G sudo 
> 
> None of them have worked -- any suggestions?

adduser  sudo

It's Debian-specific, but saves one the confusion.
Don't forget to relogin after adduser.

Reco

Re: Wheezy: adding myself to the sudo group using usermod

[Thomas Pircher]

Brian wrote:
> On Thu 04 Apr 2019 at 12:54:52 -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > (On Wheezy) I've been trying to add myself to the sudo group with the 
> > usermod 
> > command.
> 
> vigr is your friend.

I don't think this will fix OP's problem.

rhkramer, you don't need to reboot your machine, but you need to
re-login in order to start a session with your new set of groups.

If you do 'su $USER' on the terminal then this should start a session
with the new groups _in this session only_.

If you need the change globally (e.g. for applications you start from
the GUI) then you will have to logout and login again.

Thomas

Re: 'synaptic' removed from buster

[Reco]

Hi.

On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 06:36:32PM +0100, Joe wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Apr 2019 16:02:13 +0300
> Reco  wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 09:20:51AM -0300, Francisco M Neto wrote:
> > > On Thu, 2019-04-04 at 12:33 +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:  
> > > > If it is not, there is nothing preventing it's return to
> > > > repositories  
> > > > > some time after. It happened with other useful and popular
> > > > > packages before.  
> > > > 
> > > > Indeed.  Reading the bug report demonstrates that ppl are keen
> > > > for it to be re-instated.  However, not working properly in Gnome
> > > > is considered (understandably, IMO) a show-stopper.  
> > > 
> > >   What is the problem between Synaptic and Gnome? I've been
> > > using both without a single hiccup for years...  
> > 
> > The official reason is "'sudo synaptic' does not work with Wayland
> > session, therefore GNOME users will be confused". Also, comment 50
> > from #818366.
> > 
> I recall having trouble, twice, with a new Synaptic and its pkexec
> invocation. I was probably supposed to do something obscure with
> policykit, but instead I switched the menu entry to gksudo.

... and in Wayland session it's either policykit or nothing. Thing's
designed to be single-user only.
As #818366 shows, synaptic's usage of policykit is 'improper', and
that's not even counting certain X11 calls (which do not work in Wayland
for obvious reasons).

In short, Wayland is upon us.

Reco

Re: Wheezy: adding myself to the sudo group using usermod

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 06:42:19PM +0100, Thomas Pircher wrote:
> Brian wrote:
> > On Thu 04 Apr 2019 at 12:54:52 -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > (On Wheezy) I've been trying to add myself to the sudo group with the 
> > > usermod 
> > > command.
> > 
> > vigr is your friend.
> 
> I don't think this will fix OP's problem.
> 
> rhkramer, you don't need to reboot your machine, but you need to
> re-login in order to start a session with your new set of groups.
> 
> If you do 'su $USER' on the terminal then this should start a session
> with the new groups _in this session only_.
> 
'newgrp' is a bit nicer than 'su $USER', being that the latter can
change your environment (depending on system settings).

> If you need the change globally (e.g. for applications you start from
> the GUI) then you will have to logout and login again.
> 
There is no way around this for a global update.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

Re: Wheezy: adding myself to the sudo group using usermod

[Cindy Sue Causey]

On 4/4/19, rhkra...@gmail.com  wrote:
> (On Wheezy) I've been trying to add myself to the sudo group with the
> usermod
> command.
>
> As root, I've tried most of the permutations of this:
>
> usermod -a -G sudo 
>
> None of them have worked -- any suggestions?
>
> (I have checked using groups (as username), and even have opened fresh
> terminals.  Hmm, maybe I have to reboot?  I hope not, I don't want to do
> that
> in the near future.)


Hi.. It took about 5 times of reading what you wrote before I
remembered that I don't have to "reboot", but I do have to *logout*
for changes like that to take hold. The DIFFERENCE is that I use
"adduser" to make those kinds of changes:

And, yes, I know... logging out might as well be rebooting depending
on what kind of work we have opened across our desktops. :)

K/t having learned of adduser while debootstrap'ing, I use:

adduser  sudo

If you go looking for adduser and don't find it for Wheezy, see if
useradd is there for you. Possibly maybe even installed already?

*My understanding* is that adduser and useradd do similar things.
Chatter on the Net over time *seems* to be saying that adduser maybe
[embellishes] a little...

Or something like that.

PS I'm not finding either usermod OR useradd via a quick "apt-cache
search" of Debian _Buster_ "main" repository. Seems like I remember
seeing chatter about that, too, along the way.

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with birdseed *

Re: Wheezy: adding myself to the sudo group using usermod

[Cindy Sue Causey]

SORRY :)

On 4/4/19, Cindy Sue Causey  wrote:
> On 4/4/19, rhkra...@gmail.com  wrote:
>> (On Wheezy) I've been trying to add myself to the sudo group with the
>> usermod
>> command.
>>
>> As root, I've tried most of the permutations of this:
>>
>> usermod -a -G sudo 
>>
>> None of them have worked -- any suggestions?
>>
>> (I have checked using groups (as username), and even have opened fresh
>> terminals.  Hmm, maybe I have to reboot?  I hope not, I don't want to do
>> that
>> in the near future.)
>
>
> Hi.. It took about 5 times of reading what you wrote before I
> remembered that I don't have to "reboot", but I do have to *logout*
> for changes like that to take hold. The DIFFERENCE is that I use
> "adduser" to make those kinds of changes:
>
> And, yes, I know... logging out might as well be rebooting depending
> on what kind of work we have opened across our desktops. :)
>
> K/t having learned of adduser while debootstrap'ing, I use:
>
> adduser  sudo
>
> If you go looking for adduser and don't find it for Wheezy, see if
> useradd is there for you. Possibly maybe even installed already?
>
> *My understanding* is that adduser and useradd do similar things.
> Chatter on the Net over time *seems* to be saying that adduser maybe
> [embellishes] a little...
>
> Or something like that.
>
> PS I'm not finding either usermod OR useradd via a quick "apt-cache
> search" of Debian _Buster_ "main" repository. Seems like I remember
> seeing chatter about that, too, along the way.


*NEVER MIND*

As soon as I hit send, I thought to double-tab on "user" while in "su
-". Useradd's there. Userdel... Usermod

Just not having the best of cognitive days today... :)

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with birdseed *

Re: Wheezy: adding myself to the sudo group using usermod

[Brian]

On Thu 04 Apr 2019 at 18:42:19 +0100, Thomas Pircher wrote:

> Brian wrote:
> > On Thu 04 Apr 2019 at 12:54:52 -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > > (On Wheezy) I've been trying to add myself to the sudo group with the 
> > > usermod 
> > > command.
> > 
> > vigr is your friend.
> 
> I don't think this will fix OP's problem.

Really? vigr cannot be used to add a user to a group? From the manual:

 > vipw, vigr - edit the password, group, shadow-password
 > or shadow-group file
> 
> rhkramer, you don't need to reboot your machine, but you need to
> re-login in order to start a session with your new set of groups.

rhkramer is an experienced user; he knows logging out and logging in
again is necessary.

Re: Getting amd64 stretch netinstall to work.

[Felix Miata]

bw composed on 2019-04-04 11:24 (UTC-0400):

> Try the guide much?
> https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s03.html.en#di-partition

It lacks the screenshots that are key to understanding existing partition 
utilization.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: Wheezy: adding myself to the sudo group using usermod

[Thomas Pircher]

Brian wrote:
>
> Really? vigr cannot be used to add a user to a group?

Nobody has stated that.

Since the OP had the correct command in his  email, I assumed that the
operation worked, but hasn't been activated in the current session.

Do I know that for sure? No, he hasn't said exactly what doesn't work,
but from the rest of his mail I think that is a fair guess.

> rhkramer is an experienced user; he knows logging out and logging in
> again is necessary.

And that's an assumption on your part. :-)

Thomas

Re: Getting amd64 stretch netinstall to work.

[Brian]

On Thu 04 Apr 2019 at 10:39:19 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

> Greetings all
> 
> I am  today, going to make my 6th attempt to make the stretch netinstall 
> work.

My, my; as an experienced user, you really are having a hard time.

> I think I have sussed the failure mode, which seems to be that by the 
> time its finslly gets around to installing grub, its too far into the 
> diksk for the dumb bios on this old Asus mobo to find it, so this time I 
> am going to add a /boot as first partition. At 2 or 3 hundred megs.

"... its too far into the diksk ...". Eh? I think that's known as
conjecture. Sounds like nonsense anyway.
 
> And I'd like to do this with gparted in such a way as to skip the 
> partitioning. I don't care if it formats the partitions I give it. But I 
> do NOT want them futzt with. I've even had your partitioner rearrange 
> the partitions/ putting a /boot partition 300G's into a 1T drive, 
> although that was with a previous version.  So I'm hoping it won't do 
> that ever again.

You have convinced youself that the partitioner is at fault. Have you
thought of a test install using a single 20 GB partition on your disk?
It is not what you want, but it could boost your confidence.
 
> So how _exactly_ do I make the installer take what it finds, format it, 
> and just get on with it?

I cannot be bothered to think about this. 99.9% of Debian users find an
expert installation procedure works well.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Wheezy: adding myself to the sudo group using usermod

[Brian]

On Thu 04 Apr 2019 at 19:38:01 +0100, Thomas Pircher wrote:

> Brian wrote:
> >
> > Really? vigr cannot be used to add a user to a group?
> 
> Nobody has stated that.
> 
> Since the OP had the correct command in his  email, I assumed that the
> operation worked, but hasn't been activated in the current session.

That's an assumption on your part. :) But making it is not unreasonable.

> Do I know that for sure? No, he hasn't said exactly what doesn't work,
> but from the rest of his mail I think that is a fair guess.
> 
> > rhkramer is an experienced user; he knows logging out and logging in
> > again is necessary.
> 
> And that's an assumption on your part. :-)

Which bit is an assumption? Experienced? I hope you are not questioning
his competence.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Getting amd64 stretch netinstall to work.

[David Wright]

On Thu 04 Apr 2019 at 13:12:58 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote:
> Gene Heskett composed on 2019-04-04 10:39 (UTC-0400):
> 
> > So how _exactly_ do I make the installer take what it finds, format it, 
> > and just get on with it?
> 
> First select manual partitioning (all these are the same screen):
> https://www.howtoforge.com/images/debian_stretch_minimal_server/debian-9-server-img-16.png
> https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/images/inst-partman.png
> https://photonsphere.org/img/PartitionDisks.png
> 
> Then select the disk (should resemble one of these):
> https://www.tecmint.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Select-free-space-to-partition.png
> https://www.tecmint.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Overview-of-disks.png
> https://photonsphere.org/img/PartitionDisksManual3.png
> 
> Choose the partition to configure (I think these are actually the same screen 
> as
> previous group, except with disk's partitions expanded):
> https://www.pontikis.net/blog/media/2013/04/debian-7-wheezy-rc1-lamp-server-setup-step-by-step/post/VBX_DEBIAN7_31_partitioning.png
> https://blog.sleeplessbeastie.eu/assets/uploads/2013/10/debian_install-partition_disks-partitions_end.png
> 
> Here's the screen where the main business gets done, selecting mount point, 
> format
> type, mount options, volume label:
> https://www.tecmint.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Swap-Partition-Details.png
> https://photonsphere.org/img/PartitionDisksBootPartitionSettings.png
> https://www.pontikis.net/blog/media/2013/04/debian-7-wheezy-rc1-lamp-server-setup-step-by-step/post/VBX_DEBIAN7_25_partitioning.png
> 
> Select mount point detail screen:
> https://www.pontikis.net/blog/media/2013/04/debian-7-wheezy-rc1-lamp-server-setup-step-by-step/post/VBX_DEBIAN7_26_partitioning.png
> 
> If I knew how to get my own screencaps from a text install on real hardware 
> (not a
> virtual machine) I would make my own web page to do what the Debian Handbook 
> seems
> can't be bothered to do. It would probably be somewhat like
> https://www.pontikis.net/blog/debian-7-wheezy-rc1-lamp-server-setup-step-by-step
> except the images would be big enough to see without having to open each in 
> turn.

(I haven't looked at these links yet.)

The way I've always done it is to use script (or cut and paste) while
installing over ssh. To get the first few screens, you have to go back
to the beginning (Select a Language) and repeat them.

The trickiest screens are the ones that set up the network itself.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Getting amd64 stretch netinstall to work.

[David Christensen]

On 4/4/19 7:39 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:

Greetings all

I am  today, going to make my 6th attempt to make the stretch netinstall
work.

I think I have sussed the failure mode, which seems to be that by the
time its finslly gets around to installing grub, its too far into the
diksk for the dumb bios on this old Asus mobo to find it, so this time I
am going to add a /boot as first partition. At 2 or 3 hundred megs.

And I'd like to do this with gparted in such a way as to skip the
partitioning. I don't care if it formats the partitions I give it. But I
do NOT want them futzt with. I've even had your partitioner rearrange
the partitions/ putting a /boot partition 300G's into a 1T drive,
although that was with a previous version.  So I'm hoping it won't do
that ever again.

So how _exactly_ do I make the installer take what it finds, format it,
and just get on with it?

Cheers, Gene Heskett


Answer:  You must tell the installer _exactly_ what to do.


I always use the d-i in text mode, not GUI mode, to avoid potential 
problems with X windows.  I recommend you do the same.



The d-i defaults to the MBR partitioning scheme.  This is what I want, 
because my older computers do not know how to boot from GPT and my newer 
Wintel computers boot from both MBR and GPT (MacBook Pro only boots from 
GPT?).  Furthermore, I use small system discs (16+ GB), which do not 
require GPT.  I recommend you do the same on both accounts -- use small 
system discs and use the MBR partitioning scheme.



While I have tried d-i automatic partitioning occasionally over the 
years to see what it does, I always manually partition system discs I 
plan to keep.  I recommend you do the same.



Begin by choosing a computer, disconnecting all HDD's, SSD's, USB 
drives, SD drives, etc., and connecting the drive you want to contain 
Debian to the motherboard's first SATA port or first USB port.  Boot the 
d-i media.  At the main menu, choose "Install".  Work your way through 
the d-i pages.  When you get to the "Partitioning method" page, choose 
"manual".  The manual partitioning sub-application has many available 
choices.  Actions are in the upper area, discs and partitions are in the 
lower area.  Depending upon what you select, the sub-app will present 
you with more choices.  I learned to use this sub-app the old-fashioned 
way -- by fumbling my way through, exploring, making mistakes, fixing 
them, etc..  Understand that some actions (such as encrypting a 
partition) make one-way changes to how the sub-app operates.  If and 
when I get stuck with the sub-app, I can always push the reset or power 
buttons and start over with  fresh run of d-i.  The partitioning sub-app 
starts to make sense fairly quickly, and is faster/ easier/ less 
error-prone than using the recovery shell.  With your knowledge and 
experience, I am sure you can figure out the manual partitioning sub-app 
too.  You will then have a system disc partitioned exactly how you want it.



When you're done setting up you system disc, take an image of it.


Then connect the 2 TB disc and set it up for your bulk data and large apps.


(When you are confident with the d-i manual partitioning sub-app, you 
can do both the system disk and your data disk(s) at install time.)



David

Re: Getting amd64 stretch netinstall to work.

[Patrick Bartek]

On Thu, 4 Apr 2019 10:39:19 -0400
Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Greetings all
> 
> I am  today, going to make my 6th attempt to make the stretch netinstall 
> work.

I netinstalled Stretch some months ago on this 12 year old Asrock
770DE+ system with absolutely no problems. My guess is you're doing
something wrong and making the same mistake over and over and over
again.

Are you trying to use UEFI partitioning and boot?

Does your motherboard support UEFI?  Mine doesn't.

So, have to do MBR-type partitioning and install. I have /, /home in
extended partitions and swap as a primary one (from the previous Wheezy
install which I no longer use).

B 

Re: Getting amd64 stretch netinstall to work.

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 04 April 2019 11:24:24 bw wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <201904041039.19463.ghesk...@shentel.net>
>
> >So how _exactly_ do I make the installer take what it finds, format
> > it, and just get on with it?
>
> You can't.  Part of manual partitioning step is selecting the
> mountpoints and it has to be done by someone.  How would you expect
> the installer to know what partition is for / or /home/ or /var or
> whatever?
>
If the disks partitions have been labeled, that removes that excuse, and 
they were.

But, to get current, adding a 300 meg /boot partition solved that 
problem.  And many of the remaining problems aren't showstoppers except 
for one. I had mc copying some  of my data from the deb7 drive to this 
one, but I had other things to do and left mc running but sitting idle 
while I attended to the washing machine and walked to the mailbox to get 
todays mail.  On returning, the screen  had been blanked. Nothing on the 
keyboard or mouse would unblank it, and I had to resort to the reset 
button.

TDE-trinity is now installed and was rebooted to at the time. No 
screenblanker gfx had yet been assigned, nor had an "xset -q" been run 
to see what the defaults might have been. So I am rebooted back to 
wheezy pending advice on what to do about this as I don't expect to have 
to reset & reboot the machine everytime I walk away for ten minutes.

Hopefully someone else has encountered this and knows the fix.

Thanks.


> I guess you could do some kind of preseed script, but that's beyond
> me, and doesn't sound like what you want.
>
> Try the guide much?
> https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch06s03.html.en#di-partit
>ion

Didn't know it existed.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Wheezy: adding myself to the sudo group using usermod

[Thomas Pircher]

Brian wrote:
> Which bit is an assumption? Experienced? I hope you are not questioning
> his competence.

No, definitely not, I have been reading this list for some time and have
absolutely no reason to doubt his experience or competence. I wish I had
stated that better.

What I meant was that he might not know (or might have forgotten) that
some changes to a system user are not immediately visible in active
sessions.
To my mind this is one of the more obscure features of the system one
has to learn the hard way because it is not intuitive or obvious.

Thomas

Re: 'synaptic' removed from buster

[tomas]

On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 06:58:20PM +0300, Reco wrote:
[...]

> On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 10:15:40AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

[...]

> > If thats not plain enough to the people making these descisions, tuff
> > luck.  This stuff gets its users by working, and gnome has not
> > recently demonstrated that.
> 
> Please be careful. There are GNOME users here, at this list. Someone
> might get offended :)

Not a Gnome user here, by a long shot. But still a bit weary of the
negative tone of you both. There are folks there at bug #818366
trying to find a solution -- why not chime in and help out?

This is, you know, a collaborative project.

Cheers
-- t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Getting amd64 stretch netinstall to work.

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 04 April 2019 12:29:33 Charlie Kravetz wrote:

> On Thu, 4 Apr 2019 11:09:13 -0400
>
> Gene Heskett  wrote:
> >On Thursday 04 April 2019 10:55:23 Greg Wooledge wrote:
> >> On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 10:39:19AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >> > I am  today, going to make my 6th attempt to make the stretch
> >> > netinstall work.
> >> >
> >> > I think I have sussed the failure mode, which seems to be that by
> >> > the time its finslly gets around to installing grub, its too far
> >> > into the diksk for the dumb bios on this old Asus mobo to find
> >> > it, so this time I am going to add a /boot as first partition. At
> >> > 2 or 3 hundred megs.
>
> I wonder if that long delay is while it is fscking the hard drive? It
> can take quite a while with a drive that big.

My QC drive cage has activity LED's, There was none. 
>
> >> Are you trying to install the boot loader portion of grub to a
> >> PARTITION? Instead of to the front of a DISK?
> >>
That has been adequately explained  previously.

> >> The boot loader part of GRUB goes in the first bytes of the disk.
> >> That's where the BIOS reads it from, and then executes it.

Only if that first 500 megs hasn't been used for something else, in this 
case the fix was to partition 300 megs as boot so this dumbassed bios 
could find it.

> >> That boot loader portion then looks for its configuration file in
> >> your Debian /boot partition, which can be anywhere on the disk.

Not with this math crippled bios bearing a 2006 copyright. It MUST be 
wholly within the first couple hundred megabytes of the beginning of the 
disk or it can't find it, and it is the most recent bios available for 
an Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe motherboard, version 1701.

> >> Or at least, that's how things work in legacy BIOS.

> >> (U)EFI is a 
> >> different story.  Since you claim this is an "old" machine and even
> >> used the word "bios", I assume you're using legacy BIOS and MBR
> >> (not GPT) disklabels.
> >
> >Yes.
> >
> >> When you partition a disk with an MBR disklabel, you leave a small
> >> gap at the front of the disk for the boot loader and partition
> >> table. They go into that unpartitioned space.
> >>
> >> The Debian installer already handles all of this for you, even in
> >> manual partitioning mode (which is what I always use).  I can't
> >> even guess how you've failed this process 5 times, unless it's
> >> because you keep putting GRUB in the wrong place.

No. Without a /boot partition, just a directory entry, the installer is 
free to use that empty space, and the file system WILL use the available 
space for other things. This puts all the grub stuff, installed as the 
last thing the installer does, way too far into the disk for old bios's 
to find.  Your version of a "legacy" bios is a snapshot taken a month 
before UEFI became the M$ dictatorial law. I go back another 40 years 
into the '70's. I go back far enough I've dragged management into my 
office to show them how a computer should work, running os9 on a trs-80 
color computer, multiuser, multitasking, when they were still running 
dos-2.1 on their 8086 boxes on their $2600 desks.

But no one ever got fired for buying I've Been Moved boxes...

Once in a while, the old man is right.

> >In the mbr, like it wants to. On the reboot if it ever touches the
> > disk, the led blink is too fast to see, all I see on screen after
> > post is a blinking cursor at the upper left corner. I'd give it a
> > while to e2fsck the drive, but theres zero drive activity.
> >
> >Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Getting amd64 stretch netinstall to work.

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 04 April 2019 13:12:58 Felix Miata wrote:

> Gene Heskett composed on 2019-04-04 10:39 (UTC-0400):
> > So how _exactly_ do I make the installer take what it finds, format
> > it, and just get on with it?
>
> First select manual partitioning (all these are the same screen):
> https://www.howtoforge.com/images/debian_stretch_minimal_server/debian
>-9-server-img-16.png
> https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/images/inst-partman.png
> https://photonsphere.org/img/PartitionDisks.png
>
> Then select the disk (should resemble one of these):
> https://www.tecmint.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Select-free-space-t
>o-partition.png
> https://www.tecmint.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Overview-of-disks.p
>ng https://photonsphere.org/img/PartitionDisksManual3.png
>
> Choose the partition to configure (I think these are actually the same
> screen as previous group, except with disk's partitions expanded):
> https://www.pontikis.net/blog/media/2013/04/debian-7-wheezy-rc1-lamp-s
>erver-setup-step-by-step/post/VBX_DEBIAN7_31_partitioning.png
> https://blog.sleeplessbeastie.eu/assets/uploads/2013/10/debian_install
>-partition_disks-partitions_end.png
>
> Here's the screen where the main business gets done, selecting mount
> point, format type, mount options, volume label:
> https://www.tecmint.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Swap-Partition-Deta
>ils.png
> https://photonsphere.org/img/PartitionDisksBootPartitionSettings.png
> https://www.pontikis.net/blog/media/2013/04/debian-7-wheezy-rc1-lamp-s
>erver-setup-step-by-step/post/VBX_DEBIAN7_25_partitioning.png
>
> Select mount point detail screen:
> https://www.pontikis.net/blog/media/2013/04/debian-7-wheezy-rc1-lamp-s
>erver-setup-step-by-step/post/VBX_DEBIAN7_26_partitioning.png
>
> If I knew how to get my own screencaps from a text install on real
> hardware (not a virtual machine) I would make my own web page to do
> what the Debian Handbook seems can't be bothered to do. It would
> probably be somewhat like
> https://www.pontikis.net/blog/debian-7-wheezy-rc1-lamp-server-setup-st
>ep-by-step except the images would be big enough to see without having
> to open each in turn.

So the takeaway is that I'm not the only one with the problem. One can 
take snapshots with a digital camera, and gimp can make them printable. 
But it costs money for the camera.  Sigh...

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: 'synaptic' removed from buster

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 04 April 2019 13:45:52 Reco wrote:

>   Hi.
>
> On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 06:36:32PM +0100, Joe wrote:
> > On Thu, 4 Apr 2019 16:02:13 +0300
> >
> > Reco  wrote:
> > > On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 09:20:51AM -0300, Francisco M Neto wrote:
> > > > On Thu, 2019-04-04 at 12:33 +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
> > > > > If it is not, there is nothing preventing it's return to
> > > > > repositories
> > > > >
> > > > > > some time after. It happened with other useful and popular
> > > > > > packages before.
> > > > >
> > > > > Indeed.  Reading the bug report demonstrates that ppl are keen
> > > > > for it to be re-instated.  However, not working properly in
> > > > > Gnome is considered (understandably, IMO) a show-stopper.
> > > >
> > > > What is the problem between Synaptic and Gnome? I've been
> > > > using both without a single hiccup for years...
> > >
> > > The official reason is "'sudo synaptic' does not work with Wayland
> > > session, therefore GNOME users will be confused". Also, comment 50
> > > from #818366.
> >
> > I recall having trouble, twice, with a new Synaptic and its pkexec
> > invocation. I was probably supposed to do something obscure with
> > policykit, but instead I switched the menu entry to gksudo.
>
> ... and in Wayland session it's either policykit or nothing. Thing's
> designed to be single-user only.
> As #818366 shows, synaptic's usage of policykit is 'improper', and
> that's not even counting certain X11 calls (which do not work in
> Wayland for obvious reasons).
>
> In short, Wayland is upon us.
>
> Reco

The solution seems simple enough, fix wayland.  This is after all a 
multiuser and multitasking OS, why go out of the way, way out of the way 
to make it work like win-3.0?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Getting amd64 stretch netinstall to work.

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 04 April 2019 14:56:09 David Wright wrote:

> On Thu 04 Apr 2019 at 13:12:58 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote:
> > Gene Heskett composed on 2019-04-04 10:39 (UTC-0400):
> > > So how _exactly_ do I make the installer take what it finds,
> > > format it, and just get on with it?
> >
> > First select manual partitioning (all these are the same screen):
> > https://www.howtoforge.com/images/debian_stretch_minimal_server/debi
> >an-9-server-img-16.png
> > https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/images/inst-partman.png
> > https://photonsphere.org/img/PartitionDisks.png
> >
> > Then select the disk (should resemble one of these):
> > https://www.tecmint.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Select-free-space
> >-to-partition.png
> > https://www.tecmint.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Overview-of-disks
> >.png https://photonsphere.org/img/PartitionDisksManual3.png
> >
> > Choose the partition to configure (I think these are actually the
> > same screen as previous group, except with disk's partitions
> > expanded):
> > https://www.pontikis.net/blog/media/2013/04/debian-7-wheezy-rc1-lamp
> >-server-setup-step-by-step/post/VBX_DEBIAN7_31_partitioning.png
> > https://blog.sleeplessbeastie.eu/assets/uploads/2013/10/debian_insta
> >ll-partition_disks-partitions_end.png
> >
> > Here's the screen where the main business gets done, selecting mount
> > point, format type, mount options, volume label:
> > https://www.tecmint.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Swap-Partition-De
> >tails.png
> > https://photonsphere.org/img/PartitionDisksBootPartitionSettings.png
> > https://www.pontikis.net/blog/media/2013/04/debian-7-wheezy-rc1-lamp
> >-server-setup-step-by-step/post/VBX_DEBIAN7_25_partitioning.png
> >
> > Select mount point detail screen:
> > https://www.pontikis.net/blog/media/2013/04/debian-7-wheezy-rc1-lamp
> >-server-setup-step-by-step/post/VBX_DEBIAN7_26_partitioning.png
> >
> > If I knew how to get my own screencaps from a text install on real
> > hardware (not a virtual machine) I would make my own web page to do
> > what the Debian Handbook seems can't be bothered to do. It would
> > probably be somewhat like
> > https://www.pontikis.net/blog/debian-7-wheezy-rc1-lamp-server-setup-
> >step-by-step except the images would be big enough to see without
> > having to open each in turn.
>
> (I haven't looked at these links yet.)
>
> The way I've always done it is to use script (or cut and paste) while
> installing over ssh. To get the first few screens, you have to go back
> to the beginning (Select a Language) and repeat them.
>
> The trickiest screens are the ones that set up the network itself.
>
That debian finally got right, piece of cake.

> Cheers,
> David.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: 'synaptic' removed from buster

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 03:46:52PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> The solution seems simple enough, fix wayland.  This is after all a 
> multiuser and multitasking OS, why go out of the way, way out of the way 
> to make it work like win-3.0?

The notion of running a client as user X to talk to a display server
running as user Y seems to directly contradict the Wayland security
model.  As far as I can understand it, given the rather vague Wayland
documentation I've seen so far.

I think the "correct" fix for synaptic would be to redesign it to run the
graphical interface as you, communicating with an auxiliary process that
runs as root which can install and remove packages.  That second process
could be a child of synaptic, or an independent daemon of some kind.
Authentication methods to be determined by whomever does the work.

I would not describe this solution as "simple".  Maybe you had a different
solution in mind.

Re: 'synaptic' removed from buster

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 04 April 2019 15:57:17 Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 03:46:52PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > The solution seems simple enough, fix wayland.  This is after all a
> > multiuser and multitasking OS, why go out of the way, way out of the
> > way to make it work like win-3.0?
>
> The notion of running a client as user X to talk to a display server
> running as user Y seems to directly contradict the Wayland security
> model.  As far as I can understand it, given the rather vague Wayland
> documentation I've seen so far.
>
> I think the "correct" fix for synaptic would be to redesign it to run
> the graphical interface as you, communicating with an auxiliary
> process that runs as root which can install and remove packages.  That
> second process could be a child of synaptic, or an independent daemon
> of some kind. Authentication methods to be determined by whomever does
> the work.
>
> I would not describe this solution as "simple".  Maybe you had a
> different solution in mind.

I didn't intend to say it was simple. Its also incorrect. Fix one or the 
other, but I don't expect it to be "simple".  You fix wayland once, or 
you fix half the os's utilities.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: 'synaptic' removed from buster

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 04:15:32PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> I didn't intend to say it was simple. Its also incorrect. Fix one or the 
> other, but I don't expect it to be "simple".  You fix wayland once, or 
> you fix half the os's utilities.

Wayland isn't in need of a "fix", as I understand it.  It's working as
designed.

How many graphical programs does Debian actually have that are intended
to be run as root on a desktop?  It's certainly not "half the os's
utilities".  I'd be surprised if there are as many as ten.

Re: Wheezy: adding myself to the sudo group using usermod

[Brian]

On Thu 04 Apr 2019 at 20:10:16 +0100, Thomas Pircher wrote:

> Brian wrote:
> > Which bit is an assumption? Experienced? I hope you are not questioning
> > his competence.
> 
> No, definitely not, I have been reading this list for some time and have
> absolutely no reason to doubt his experience or competence. I wish I had
> stated that better.
> 
> What I meant was that he might not know (or might have forgotten) that
> some changes to a system user are not immediately visible in active
> sessions.
> To my mind this is one of the more obscure features of the system one
> has to learn the hard way because it is not intuitive or obvious.

Well said.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Wheezy: adding myself to the sudo group using usermod

[rhkramer]

Thanks to all who replied, and thanks for the flattering comments ;-)

The key for me was needing to do something like logging out and back in -- I 
haven't added myself to groups very often (if ever) (or manually created a 
user), and I just didn't think about something like that.

I like to think of myself as competent and experienced, but, with experience 
(and competence) comes age, and things like forgetfulness.

(I may ask another question in a few minutes which may make everyone question 
my competence ;-)

On Thursday, April 04, 2019 04:33:54 PM Brian wrote:
> On Thu 04 Apr 2019 at 20:10:16 +0100, Thomas Pircher wrote:
> > Brian wrote:
> > > Which bit is an assumption? Experienced? I hope you are not questioning
> > > his competence.
> > 
> > No, definitely not, I have been reading this list for some time and have
> > absolutely no reason to doubt his experience or competence. I wish I had
> > stated that better.
> > 
> > What I meant was that he might not know (or might have forgotten) that
> > some changes to a system user are not immediately visible in active
> > sessions.
> > To my mind this is one of the more obscure features of the system one
> > has to learn the hard way because it is not intuitive or obvious.
> 
> Well said.

Re: 'synaptic' removed from buster

[mick crane]

On 2019-04-04 20:57, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 03:46:52PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

The solution seems simple enough, fix wayland.  This is after all a
multiuser and multitasking OS, why go out of the way, way out of the 
way

to make it work like win-3.0?


The notion of running a client as user X to talk to a display server
running as user Y seems to directly contradict the Wayland security
model.  As far as I can understand it, given the rather vague Wayland
documentation I've seen so far.

I think the "correct" fix for synaptic would be to redesign it to run 
the
graphical interface as you, communicating with an auxiliary process 
that
runs as root which can install and remove packages.  That second 
process

could be a child of synaptic, or an independent daemon of some kind.
Authentication methods to be determined by whomever does the work.

I would not describe this solution as "simple".  Maybe you had a 
different

solution in mind.


Making you be root to download stuff off the internet never seemed like 
a good idea.


mick
--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: 'synaptic' removed from buster

[tomas]

On Fri, Apr 05, 2019 at 07:37:05AM +0100, mick crane wrote:

[...]

> Making you be root to download stuff off the internet never seemed
> like a good idea.

And letting "you" (not root) install things in system directories
(/usr/bin et al) seems to be as bad an idea. Remember that little
javascript in your browser made by "Fakebook"? It's running as
you. Do you want it to put its grubby fingers all over your system
dirs?

No, the installer doesn't want root to "download stuff". It wants
root to put things on /usr/bin, /etc and similar places. Actually
it /needs/ root for that, and this seems to be a Good Thing.

If you want to try out alternatives, you could do (kids: don't try
this at home!):

I repeat: **DON'T DO THIS AT HOME!**

  sudo chmod -R ugo+rwX /

DON'T DO THIS!

Enjoy your alternative Unix.

Cheers
-- t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature