date:20160502

On Monday 02 May 2016 03:31:50 Doug wrote:
> On 05/01/2016 01:07 PM, Juan R. de Silva wrote:
> > On Sun, 01 May 2016 09:13:30 +, Curt wrote:
> >> I suppose you've tried the obvious (cough) like starting Firefox in safe
> >> mode,
> >> refreshing the sucker, renaming prefs.js, using a virgin profile and the
> >> like (or have you already told us that upthread somewhere).
> >
> > Yes, I tried all these.
> >
> >> And gals.
> >
> > Certainly. Gals actually go first without saying.
> >
> > Seriously. This one was quite an interesting remark. You see, these days,
> > here on Canadian West Coast, most of people, especially young people,
> > use "guys" for both guys and gals. And it always seemed to me that gals
> > were promoting this change more actively than guys. I actually personally
> > do not like the change much and it took me some time to get used to it.
> >
> > And now, when I'd used it just without much thinking any more... Bingo...
> > You got me. :-)
> >
> > It looks like people at your place still use two distinct terms. :-)
> > Where are you?
>
> I was stationed in California in the late 50s and the usage was common
> there way back then. I come from New York, and I was not used ot that, but
> I think it
> is more commonly used even in New York.

Yes, but not this side of the pond.

Lisi

Re: Posts don't show on list

On Monday 02 May 2016 02:57:32 Gary Roach wrote:
> > Lisi
>
> Lesi

Accuracy is obviously not something you bother with.

Lisi

USB tethering and interface naming on Debian/unstable

2016-05-02 Thread Vincent Lefevre

What is the rule for interface naming when doing USB tethering
on Debian/unstable (with systemd)?

In December, I had enx02060b0e, but yesterday, I had enp0s20u2.
Isn't the interface supposed to be fixed?

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: Interface hotplugging

2016-05-02 Thread Dan Ritter

On Sun, May 01, 2016 at 12:00:30AM +0200, Jarek wrote:
> Hello!
> 
>   I'd like to know, if it is possible to configure networking in Debian
> headless box (no gui), so the USB 4G dongle will hijack default route
> from ethernet interface after plug-in, and return default route after
> disconnection.
>   Is it possible ?

In general, yes.

If you are using plain /etc/network/interfaces, you have a "pre"
and "post" command available for each interface. 

"ifplugd" automates that nicely.

"ifscheme" is a package on top of interfaces which offers
labelled configuration sets. "home" and "work", for instance.

ifupdown-multi handles multiple default routes

wicd can handle all sorts of interfaces, and does not require an
X11 display.

-dsr-

Re: Posting picture files

2016-05-02 Thread Vincent Lefevre

On 2016-04-30 23:20:07 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 30 April 2016 21:12:00 Gary Roach wrote:
> 
> > I understand that I should not use attachments on debian-user or send
> > anything other than plain text files. This leaves me with a problem if
> > I wish to post a screen shot. I have been told that debian has a paste
> > bin. Does anyone know the url for that bin.
> >
> > Gary R
> 
> 

Or better: https://paste.debian.net/

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: all at a sudden Firefox

2016-05-02 Thread Vincent Lefevre

On 2016-05-01 23:29:06 +, Juan R. de Silva wrote:
> I start suspecting that with the update to Firefox 46 something that 
> handles 4K screen fonts changed and thus the problem showed up.

Firefox 46 switched to GTK3. So, I wouldn't be surprised if there
were some related changes. At least, there are known issues with
font scale, e.g.:

  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1211547

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: Sorry. :-( Re: Posting picture files

On Mon 02 May 2016 at 08:44:53 +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Sun, May 01, 2016 at 09:59:13AM -0700, Gary Roach wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > That coupled with the fact that this list just throws rejects into
> > the bit bucket [...]
> 
> I doubt that part. Especially having already received rejects from
> some Debian list due to attachments (haven't tried recently, but
> might try). Perhaps it's your provider or spam filter?

  > Another known limitation in our mailing list software is that
  > most rejected e-mails get silently dropped, so the user has no
  > real indication on what went wrong. 

https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/

Re: Posts don't show on list

On Sun 01 May 2016 at 18:57:32 -0700, Gary Roach wrote:

> B. I see no reason to go further with this since everything has been beaten
> into the ground and all of my problems have been fixed. I saw no useful
> information in the majordomo returned message (after I found it in the aol
> spam folder ). I don't use the aol web site, don't look at the aol web site

The Majordomo message tells you that gary719_li...@verizon.net is
subscribed to debian-user. You now know for certain that you will be
sent list mails. It would be quite remarkable if, out of all the
subscribers, gary719_li...@verizon.net was not kept in the loop. It is
an incentive to look at the way your received mail is handled. Which you
have.

> and hope to never have to look at it again. If something gets listed as spam
> I will normally never know this. I use good old icedove and set up my own
> filters.

I have a feeling you are misunderstanding how your mail provider's
system works and the role Icedove plays in it.

> C. I still think debian-user is being a bit cavalier with there handling of
> rejected email and their settings on maximum file sizes. With a max size of
> 10K only text can be included in an attachment. With about 50K attachments
> would become useful and would not take that much longer to transmit over a

I don't know where you (or anyone else) gets the idea there is a 10K
maximum size limit on attachments in mails sent to -user.

> dial up line. Returning rejected messages with an explanation can be
> completely automated. The argument that it would tie up bandwidth in this

You definitely do not want rejected messages with 100M attachments
returned to gary719_li...@verizon.net. How do you feel about getting one
every ten seconds.

> day and age is ridiculous. If they had done this with my messages this
> thread would be about a third of the length that it is. There is no savings
> in that level of brevity.

Not receiving an explanation about a mail which does not make it to the
list is probably a limitation in the list software, Smartlist. However,
your assumption that rejects are just thrown into the bit bucket is
unsubstantiated. They could just as well be forwarded to Listmaster for
consideration. Being a busy person, he hardly gets any time to look at
them. Then they get thrown into the bit bucket. :)

Re: Posts don't show on list

On Monday 02 May 2016 11:51:46 Brian wrote:
> I don't know where you (or anyone else) gets the idea there is a 10K
> maximum size limit on attachments in mails sent to -user.

Here is where I (recently) got it - the CoC just says "not large". :-/
--

  "Do not submit an attachment larger than 10 KiB. Consider using
paste.debian.net and including a link in your post."

From 
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists#Posting_Rules.2C_Guidelines.2C_and_Tips

---
https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/1462115259.13066.3.ca...@whiz.se

Lisi

debootstrap mips jessie failure

2016-05-02 Thread Sergey Fedorov

Hi,

I can't make jessie chroot system for mips or mipsel. How I do:

# Prepare chroot
prepare_chroot() {
suit=$1
target=$2
chroot_name=$3
arch=${4:-`dpkg --print-architecture`}
extra_packages="ccache"
user=`id -un`
root_user=$user
if test "$arch" != "`dpkg --print-architecture`"; then
foreign=true
debootstrap_extra_opts="$debootstrap_extra_opts --arch=$arch
--foreign"
fi
case $suit in
jessie|sid) mirror="http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/"; ;;
esac
sudo su -c '\
mkdir -p '$target' &&
debootstrap --variant=buildd '"$debootstrap_extra_opts"'
--include='$extra_packages' '$suit' '$target' '$mirror' &&
tee /etc/schroot/chroot.d/'$chroot_name'.conf >/dev/null

Re: Posts don't show on list

On Mon 02 May 2016 at 12:06:04 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Monday 02 May 2016 11:51:46 Brian wrote:
> > I don't know where you (or anyone else) gets the idea there is a 10K
> > maximum size limit on attachments in mails sent to -user.
> 
> Here is where I (recently) got it - the CoC just says "not large". :-/
> --
> 
>   "Do not submit an attachment larger than 10 KiB. Consider using
> paste.debian.net and including a link in your post."
> 
> From 
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists#Posting_Rules.2C_Guidelines.2C_and_Tips
> 
> ---
> https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/1462115259.13066.3.ca...@whiz.se

Note that the wiki page is general advice for all Debian mailing lists.
The advice appeared in 2004; how useful and accurate it was then is not
easy to determine but it does not appear to have any general validity
in 2016. For example, while there is no doubt a limit, debian-systemd
accepts mails with 400K attachments. Other mailing lists have a similar
policy, notably when bug reports are involved.

The CoC says:

  > Avoid sending large attachments.

Make of that what you will when it comes to debian-user but the
usefulness of the advice is limited. Perhaps it is more an exhortation
to a user to think carefully about what he is doing when posting to a
particular list. A multi-100K attachment to -user isn't considerate and
would probably get chopped off at the knees! Similarily for a multi-M
one to -systemd.

My guess for the size limit for -user is about 50K-100k. The one
attached is about 40K. Everyone likes a Debian logo. :)

Re: USB tethering and interface naming on Debian/unstable

2016-05-02 Thread David Wright

On Mon 02 May 2016 at 11:28:47 (+0200), Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> What is the rule for interface naming when doing USB tethering
> on Debian/unstable (with systemd)?
> 
> In December, I had enx02060b0e, but yesterday, I had enp0s20u2.
> Isn't the interface supposed to be fixed?

Not fixed; but predictable. See:
https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/

It would appear you have moved from scheme 4 to scheme 3, ie from
4. Names incorporating the interfaces's MAC address (example: enx78e7d1ea46da)
to
3. Names incorporating physical/geographical location of the connector of the 
hardware (example: enp2s0)

Cheers,
David.

Re: Posting picture files

2016-05-02 Thread Gene Heskett

On Monday 02 May 2016 06:18:02 Vincent Lefevre wrote:

> On 2016-04-30 23:20:07 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 30 April 2016 21:12:00 Gary Roach wrote:
> > > I understand that I should not use attachments on debian-user or
> > > send anything other than plain text files. This leaves me with a
> > > problem if I wish to post a screen shot. I have been told that
> > > debian has a paste bin. Does anyone know the url for that bin.
> > >
> > > Gary R
> >
> > 
>
> Or better: https://paste.debian.net/

Working from 81 yo & rusty wet ram. :(  Thank you for the correction.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page

Re: [OT]: May Day


On 01.05.2016 15:26, Hans Vogelsberger wrote:

Am Sat, 30 Apr 2016 21:49:06 +0300
schrieb Piyavkin :


Congratulations with International Worker's Day to all the working
(in FOSS industry and at all) people! )
Have a nice day!


Best regards,
Dmitry Piyavkin


Why workers only? There are other humans, too.



Hans, I've actually addressed all good people, since wast majority of 
the humankind (up to 99%, I guess, except classes of professional 
parasites and criminals) lives by working and serving other's in some 
useful social roles. And actually do not counterpose but complement each 
other. I've consciously said «working people», including here all labour 
classes.


Yeah, I understand that it sounds funny and the humankind doesn't even 
hear me, because I have no my own mass media (and the access to the 
carefully cultivated and formed mass consciousness). I've just sent my 
best wishes on the occasion to those who can hear me, can accept it and 
bounce back. End of story.



And, yeah, I have absolutely nothing at all against any goddess of 
flowers, especially if some come my way in a nice sunny May day.




Best regards,
Dmitry Piyavkin

Re: [OT]: May Day


On 01.05.2016 18:39, Nate Bargmann wrote:

* On 2016 01 May 08:23 -0500, John Hasler wrote:

Hans Vogelsberger writes:

Why workers only? There are other humans, too.

Class struggle.

I struggled to pay attention in social studies class way back in grade
school 40+ years ago.  Does that count?

;-)

Happy May Day from the workers paradise of a muddy farm somewhere in
northern Kansas.

- Nate



And special Best Wishes come to — Nate from Kansas!

[a soft but energetic banjo music slowly fade in in the background]


Thanks, Nate! )


Best regards,
Dmitry Piyavkin

Re: Posting picture files

On Monday 02 May 2016 15:01:12 Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Monday 02 May 2016 06:18:02 Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > On 2016-04-30 23:20:07 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Saturday 30 April 2016 21:12:00 Gary Roach wrote:
> > > > I understand that I should not use attachments on debian-user or
> > > > send anything other than plain text files. This leaves me with a
> > > > problem if I wish to post a screen shot. I have been told that
> > > > debian has a paste bin. Does anyone know the url for that bin.
> > > >
> > > > Gary R
> > >
> > > 
> >
> > Or better: https://paste.debian.net/
>
> Working from 81 yo & rusty wet ram. :(  Thank you for the correction.

But using common sense and attaching is much more likely to be useful.  (See 
Brian's email.)  I make considerable use of the archives, as do many people.  
Some threads are useless without the attachments, and paste bin entries don't 
survive.  Most of us check spam folders before making a fuss about missing 
mail, so this particular case of Gary's attachment would be unlikely to help 
future generations.

AOL always was bad about blocking harmless mail.  Many eons ago I was with 
AOL, as was my ex-husband, when my granddaughter got seriously ill in Japan.  
My son was sending out bulletins by email.  They were reaching neither of her 
blood grandparents - because AOL was blocking ALL mail from the Far East!  
And in those days we couldn't get at the spam folders.

Lisi

Re: [OT]: May Day

On Monday 02 May 2016 15:07:29 Piyavkin wrote:
> professional
> parasites

OUCH!  Can we keep politics out of this - be it far left or far right?  This 
list is not the place.

Lisi

Re: [OT]: May Day


On 01.05.2016 21:27, Haines Brown wrote:
Incidentally, I'm not suggesting that FOSS is crypto-socialist. Haines 


No, but it is new growing relations of production.


Best regards,
Dmitry Piyavkin

Re: Terri_find__your_perfect____ dentist

2016-05-02 Thread Terri Martinez

Stop
On May 2, 2016 9:22 AM,  wrote:

>
>
>
>
> *Dear_Terri, Find the perfect dentist in your area click here
> no_more_emails?
> *
> 
> */fd
>
>

Re: Harry_find__your_perfect____ dentist

2016-05-02 Thread Harry Shek

FUck OFF

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 9:18 AM,  wrote:

>
>
>
>
> *Dear_Harry, Find the perfect dentist in your area click here *
> *no_more_emails?
> *
> */fd
>
>

Re: Jule_find__your_perfect____ dentist

2016-05-02 Thread Jule Kowarsky

Remove this address  from your list please.
On May 2, 2016 10:23 AM,  wrote:

>
>
>
>
> *Dear_Jule, Find the perfect dentist in your area click here
> no_more_emails?
> *
> 
> */fd
>
>

Re: Lee_find__your_perfect____ dentist

2016-05-02 Thread Lee Hinds

I use to be a mechanic mo need for denist

On Monday, May 2, 2016,  wrote:

>
>
>
>
> *Dear_Lee, Find the perfect dentist in your area click here *
> *no_more_emails?
> *

Re: Rodrigo_find__your_perfect____ dentist

2016-05-02 Thread Rodrigo Avila

No more emails please
On May 2, 2016 7:22 AM,  wrote:

>
>
>
>
> *Dear_Rodrigo, Find the perfect dentist in your area click here
> no_more_emails?
> *
> 
> */fd
>
>

Re: Multiple live iso's on a single bootable flash drive?


On 01.05.2016 17:55, Brian wrote:

On Sat 30 Apr 2016 at 21:02:56 +0300, Piyavkin wrote:


On 29.04.2016 22:59, Brian wrote:

On Fri 29 Apr 2016 at 21:57:53 +0300, Piyavkin wrote:

[...Snip...]


It is a source of contention (and a number of bug reports) but it is by

design.

Why such design?

Suppose you want to install Debian; that's the objective after all. An
isohybrid allows mounting the USB stick directly. You dd/cat/cp the
image to a USB stick and boot and there you are - Debian is installed.

What does loop-mounting of an ISO file with GRUB give you?

With Ubuntu distrib you can do the same.
And still you can run it straight from .iso without additional quest and use
of shaman drum.
What's wrong with it?

Nothing, but a Ubuntu live ISO serves a different purpose from the
Debian installer. Which is not to say enhancing a netinst ISO is not
worthwhile and would benefit a few people. Patches to have iso-scan in
these ISOs' initrds were provided a couple of years ago and booting an
ISO with GRUB is on the installer team's list of feature requests.
Meanwhile, there is hd-media and a extra stanza in grub.cfg.


Well, and that's a good part of the story.
As I can see, the all needed functionality is already here. It just 
waiting for some reason to be incorporated in distros.



In my view, it is much more convenient to download new .iso files (or
replace old ones) straight to USB-drive and copy+paste one more menuentry in
grub.cfg (working in any OS which supports FAT), than to do the same (.iso
download in some dedicated folder, changing in grub.cfg) plus
partitioning/repartitioning (with calculation of proper partitions' sizes
every time when you want to use more then 2 distros on 1 USB-drive) and
copying (which requires *nix-like OS already running). If I understand the
process correctly.

The "convenience" argument is a decent one, although it does apply to
quite a narrow use-case.
  

And much more safer, I believe. Because in the first case there are lesser
chances that in a stressful & hasty time doing one more

cp debian-hot-new.iso /dev/sda
sync

you may end up like:«Oh, wait… was it sdb?.. wait… and what was sda then?..
Oh… that was my 40+ years long project in astrophysics… THANK YOU, Debian,
for your design!»

Not a decent argument. Operations such as partitioning and formatting a
USB stick and installing GRUB to its MBR all require root privilege.
  


Of course, but the point is: with which «case there are lesser chances» 
to shoot in own leg:


Case 1: do sudo work and pay proper attention 1 time and fit for all.

Case 2: do it every time when you update your boot collection on the 
USB-drive.



I think KISS principle should be applied not only to tools, but to the user
experience too. Which may be more important. Cause, in the end, everything
we do, we do for others. And who ignores it (for some their reason) will
suffer. For soft production one of the rules may sound like: «If you create
unnecessary obstacles in installation process, you hinder distribution and
hence adoption. Good luck!»

Advice to a newcomer for installing Debian
--
cat ISO to stick. Boot.

Alternative advice to a newcomer for installing Debian
--

Clean stick with dd. Partition stick. Format partition. Copy ISO to
partition. Install GRUB. Construct a grub.cfg and copy to partition.
Boot.



No-no, Brian, look at the situation from slightly different angle:

1-st, it is not a XOR choice. Proper design should provide both options. 
Or either part of potential users will be lost, as I said.


2-nd, you are a bit exaggerating the differences between the possible 
installing ways for newcomer. In your 2-nd alternative their already has 
partitioned and formatted stick (which shipped with FAT by default). 
Installation of grub (by one line of command) and copypasting menuentry 
in text file from official wiki (where the information should live) is 
not harder task then performing cat, trying not to kill fs on the PC's 
main hdd in the process. But the real fun starts when our newcomer wanna 
have more than one distro (cause he's a newcomer and wanna try some 
variants first to choose most promising one) but has only one USB-drive. 
And the 2-nd alternative now actually doesn't exist for newcomer at all, 
because it is too complicated for him.


3-rd, I guess, typical Debian user is not a total Linux newbie, who's 
problem are an ordinary partitioning process or grub install. I guess, 
them more interested in such capabilities as to boot multiple 
OS/versions from one partition or to run installers from virtually any 
commont USB-drive (properly prepared in advance and easily 
reconfigurable in use). And unexplained complication here — that is a 
problem.


As living illustration to the last point we may look at our real 
situation: desirable multiboot from single flash drive (see subj of the 
thread). One solution suggests doing p

Re: Gene_find__your_perfect____ dentist

2016-05-02 Thread Gene Jenkins

Stop sending me emails

On Mon, May 2, 2016, 10:23 AM  wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
> *Dear_Gene, Find the perfect dentist in your area click here
> no_more_emails? */fd
> *
>

Re: brisestreda_find__your_perfect____ dentist

2016-05-02 Thread Flor Espinoza

No entiendo este mensaje porfavor melo puede mandar en español
El 02/05/2016 09:24 a.m.,  escribió:

>
>
>
>
> *Dear_brisestreda, Find the perfect dentist in your area click here
> no_more_emails?
> *
> 
> */fd
>
>

Re: jimo5050_find__your_perfect____ dentist

2016-05-02 Thread jim obrien

Learn how to draft an email

Blue skies, Jim

> On May 2, 2016, at 10:41 AM, jimo5...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Dear_jimo5050, 
> 
> Find the perfect dentist in your area 
> 
> click here
> no_more_emails?

Re: Janice_find__your_perfect____ dentist

2016-05-02 Thread Janice Biddulph

I have a dentist ive been with for 25 years and I have no intention of
changing I don't know who you are but don't send any more messages to me
thank you have a blessed day

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 6:18 AM,  wrote:

>
>
>
>
> *Dear_Janice, Find the perfect dentist in your area click here *
> *no_more_emails?
> *
> */fd
>
>

Zero filling my HDD before installation

2016-05-02 Thread CD Lexi

Hey everyone. I'm currently looking to switch to Debian from Windows. I
used to love windows, but with every upgrade it seems I lose privacy,
control and honestly functionality. Sure, there's a lot more I can, if that
wasn't mitigated by what windows wants me to do at the time. I should have
never even moved on to 10...constantly interrupting or flogging my system
to ask me to upgrade in the middle of sensitive work should have been my
tip offI digress...

My question is this: I know what Zero and Random fills do to a drive, I run
them on every USB and Sd/MSD card I buy or retrieve, and everytime I
repurpose them. But I've never done this to a HDD and my laptop is my only
accessible PC aside from my Galaxy S6. I've backed up all my important
documents to multiple cloud locations, so I'm not worried about losing user
data. I'm just wandering, is it safe to Zero Fill an HDD before installing
Debian from a USB ISO? I know I can boot to the ISO and Zero or Random
Fill, or other sani methods from the USB Booted Debian, but will doing this
to my hard drive stop me from being able to install from the USB to the
HDD? I guess because I've never really messed with the BIOS in windows,
aside from neccisity, I'm just worried if I zero fill and for some reason
my laptop reboots before the new install, it won't boot from the USB
anymore and thus make me have to find another computer from which to
install DB. This is probably a rookie question, but better safe then sorry
with my first full HDD sanitzation. Thanks!!!

Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation

On 05/02/2016 05:00 PM, CD Lexi wrote:
> Hey everyone. I'm currently looking to switch to Debian from Windows. I
> used to love windows, but with every upgrade it seems I lose privacy,

Very good choice. Are you expert? If not try to check if you prefer to
use ubuntu instead.

How old is your laptop?

> 
> My question is this:

Your laptop has a dvd drive? if yes you don't need to worry about your
usb key.

I suggest you to download the live version of debian, this allow you to
try debian before installing.

BTW, In liknux you can choose which Graphics Interface to have in your pc.

Using a live version will allow you tu choose the best for you.

You can get the live version from the official website:

http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.4.0-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/

Regards.

H.

Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation

If you want to encrypt your hard drive using a passphrase debian
automatically wipe all your disk using random data.

Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation

2016-05-02 Thread Peter Ludikovsky

Hello & welcome to Linux!

To be honest, I haven't found a good reason to zero any media, unless I
was decommissioning it and/or selling it. When you create a new file
system on installation, any new information will overwrite the old one.
And as soon as it's created, the old file system won't be able to
interfere with the system anymore.

Besides, with SSDs and some newer HDDs, you can't be sure that there
won't be something left over in a block that was marked defect and isn't
accessed anymore.

Regards,
/peter

Am 02.05.2016 um 17:00 schrieb CD Lexi:
> Hey everyone. I'm currently looking to switch to Debian from Windows. I
> used to love windows, but with every upgrade it seems I lose privacy,
> control and honestly functionality. Sure, there's a lot more I can, if
> that wasn't mitigated by what windows wants me to do at the time. I
> should have never even moved on to 10...constantly interrupting or
> flogging my system to ask me to upgrade in the middle of sensitive work
> should have been my tip offI digress...
> 
> My question is this: I know what Zero and Random fills do to a drive, I
> run them on every USB and Sd/MSD card I buy or retrieve, and everytime I
> repurpose them. But I've never done this to a HDD and my laptop is my
> only accessible PC aside from my Galaxy S6. I've backed up all my
> important documents to multiple cloud locations, so I'm not worried
> about losing user data. I'm just wandering, is it safe to Zero Fill an
> HDD before installing Debian from a USB ISO? I know I can boot to the
> ISO and Zero or Random Fill, or other sani methods from the USB Booted
> Debian, but will doing this to my hard drive stop me from being able to
> install from the USB to the HDD? I guess because I've never really
> messed with the BIOS in windows, aside from neccisity, I'm just worried
> if I zero fill and for some reason my laptop reboots before the new
> install, it won't boot from the USB anymore and thus make me have to
> find another computer from which to install DB. This is probably a
> rookie question, but better safe then sorry with my first full HDD
> sanitzation. Thanks!!!
> 



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [OT]: May Day

2016-05-02 Thread Thomas Schmitt

Hi,

Haines Brown wrote:
> > Incidentally, I'm not suggesting that FOSS is crypto-socialist.

Piyavkin wrote:
> No, but it is new growing relations of production.

It's in no way crypto, but quite near to the vision of Karl Marx in the
19th century. He expected it to happen for classic economy after
socialism succeeded and evolved into true communism.

Google found me a nice summary in german language:

http://stattkapitalismus.blogsport.de/2008/11/12/665jeder-nach-seinen-faehigkeiten-jedem-nach-seinen-beduerfnissen/
which is obviously by a person not aware of free software.
It quotes Marx' book "Das Kapital", 1867:
"Stellen wir uns endlich, zur Abwechslung, einen Verein freier Menschen
vor, ..."
which i translate as:
"Let us imagine finally, just for a change, a club of free humans, who
work with commonly used means of production and self-confidently spend
their many individual powers of work as a united work effort for society.
[...] The result of the club's work is a product of society.
In part it serves in turn as means of production. Another part is
consumed by the members as subsistence."

He did not imagine highly valuable objects which can be copied at
nearly no cost and can be used by affordable means. He only predicts that
the relation between production and consumption will change but then goes
on to describe a non-communist structure of work merits and right to
consume.
In our world, even Linus Torvalds gets more from GNU/Linux than he gave.

Marx also did not imagine that a (from his view) ideal society would emerge
on top of capitalism rather than replacing it.

In real life i do not get my food for free. Housing is expensive.
Even the preconditions for linuxing cost monthly money.
But during my life there were only a few months of what i'd call work.
I earn my keep by selling myself doing my favorite sports.
Nevertheless i am aware that i am swimming as grease drop on a watery soup
of hardship and boredom.

Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation

2016-05-02 Thread Peter Ludikovsky

Hi,

1) You might want to use "Reply to list", so that all readers can see
your answer.
2) Unneeded files are gone, as soon as you format the disk. Same for any
malware, aside from the fact that Windows malware won't run on Linux
anyway. The only thing possible would be people recovering date from
unused blocks, and that is easily mitigated by encrypting the disk if
you're concerned enough. At least with dm-crypt and luks _all_ sectors
are encrypted, no matter if used or not.

Regards,
/peter

Am 02.05.2016 um 17:50 schrieb Ralph Sanchez:
> Heqamilus --- Not an expert, but I've worked with Kali and Backtrack
> for quite a while from USB live boot and figure, if I didn't kill
> myself virtually while perm logged in as a root user, I should be okay
> switching to debian. Plus it's more secure, to me, and better as far
> as apt-get programs and what not, imho from research.
> 
> My laptop is two years old, an ASUS model with 280 gig HDD, 4 g ram,
> intel I forget processor lol
> 
> NO DVD OR CD DRIVE
> 
> and your saying it will allow me an option for encryption and random
> fill before, during or after install??
> 
> 
> Peter _ I have multiple reasons to want to sanitize and zero or random
> fill my hdd. Multiple copies of unneeded files, things I don't want
> people accessing if they would get through my sec, possibilities of
> malware/viruses/keyboard logging, etc that will continue to effect my
> system. I want a fresh start. And I know you can't be 100% sure,
> unless you initiate multiple passes and try to recover your disk using
> another system to check, still not 100% sure but better then blind
> trust.
> 
> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Peter Ludikovsky  
> wrote:
>> Hello & welcome to Linux!
>>
>> To be honest, I haven't found a good reason to zero any media, unless I
>> was decommissioning it and/or selling it. When you create a new file
>> system on installation, any new information will overwrite the old one.
>> And as soon as it's created, the old file system won't be able to
>> interfere with the system anymore.
>>
>> Besides, with SSDs and some newer HDDs, you can't be sure that there
>> won't be something left over in a block that was marked defect and isn't
>> accessed anymore.
>>
>> Regards,
>> /peter
>>
>> Am 02.05.2016 um 17:00 schrieb CD Lexi:
>>> Hey everyone. I'm currently looking to switch to Debian from Windows. I
>>> used to love windows, but with every upgrade it seems I lose privacy,
>>> control and honestly functionality. Sure, there's a lot more I can, if
>>> that wasn't mitigated by what windows wants me to do at the time. I
>>> should have never even moved on to 10...constantly interrupting or
>>> flogging my system to ask me to upgrade in the middle of sensitive work
>>> should have been my tip offI digress...
>>>
>>> My question is this: I know what Zero and Random fills do to a drive, I
>>> run them on every USB and Sd/MSD card I buy or retrieve, and everytime I
>>> repurpose them. But I've never done this to a HDD and my laptop is my
>>> only accessible PC aside from my Galaxy S6. I've backed up all my
>>> important documents to multiple cloud locations, so I'm not worried
>>> about losing user data. I'm just wandering, is it safe to Zero Fill an
>>> HDD before installing Debian from a USB ISO? I know I can boot to the
>>> ISO and Zero or Random Fill, or other sani methods from the USB Booted
>>> Debian, but will doing this to my hard drive stop me from being able to
>>> install from the USB to the HDD? I guess because I've never really
>>> messed with the BIOS in windows, aside from neccisity, I'm just worried
>>> if I zero fill and for some reason my laptop reboots before the new
>>> install, it won't boot from the USB anymore and thus make me have to
>>> find another computer from which to install DB. This is probably a
>>> rookie question, but better safe then sorry with my first full HDD
>>> sanitzation. Thanks!!!
>>>
>>



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation



 Am 02.05.2016 um 17:50 schrieb Ralph Sanchez:
> Heqamilus --- Not an expert, but I've worked with Kali and Backtrack
> for quite a while from USB live boot and figure, if I didn't kill
> myself virtually while perm logged in as a root user, I should be okay
> switching to debian. Plus it's more secure, to me, and better as far
> as apt-get programs and what not, imho from research.

Ok, just make sure yourself to have always a working OS, "just in case".
So I suggest to act like this:

1) Download latest debian live, whatever version
2) verify iso and burn in usb
3) test live (wifi working etc)
4) install, by following the easystep

You can make sure that all of your hardware will work on debian. If you
can't get you HW to work, you need to download a special version of
debian that contain non free software

IMHO is better to not use the live installer to surf the web or do
anythings other than testing drivers (for security)

>
> and your saying it will allow me an option for encryption and random
> fill before, during or after install??

During installation of linux (Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora... ) you can choose
to perform a full encrypted installation.
While the installer encrypt your disk, all the sector of your hard drive
will be overwriten. This is for make impossible to recover userdata by
software.

For you this is useful because if someone stole you laptop or you lose
it you don't need to worry about your data being stolen.

Good Luck

H.

Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation

Ralph, Again, use the button reply to list.

Disk encryption don't use gpg. You just have to remember a pass pharase
that you use for unlock your hard disk.

Installer will overwrite all your disk, but if you want you can skip
this step by pressing "cancel" button


please learn what gpg is and what is luks and use the reply to list button.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/disk_encryption

Re: [OT]: May Day


On 02.05.2016 17:16, Lisi Reisz wrote:

On Monday 02 May 2016 15:07:29 Piyavkin wrote:

professional
parasites

OUCH!  Can we keep politics out of this - be it far left or far right?  This
list is not the place.

Lisi



Hi, Lisi!

Actually, I'm not intended to elaborate the o-topic any further beyond 
the Worker's Day congratulations.


And by mentioned «professional parasites and criminals» I meant in the 
first place exactly those people who live by criminal, fraud, deception, 
and literally at other's expense. Which is by definition a description 
of lumpen-proletariat (declassified) stratum.


But, I wonder, /whom/ exactly did you bear in mind when you triggered 
«politics detection» alert at words «professional parasites»? ) ...Ouch!



Best regards,
Dmitry Piyavkin

Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation

I can't find a reply to list, I tried reply all, does that work? I
currently use PGP for disk encryption, I haven't delved much into
learning about LUKS, etc but I will now. I also don't use passphrases,
I use a minisd card so keylogging software can't catch me entering my
phrase.  Thanks for all the advice, I'm pretty sure I know what
direction I'm heading at this point, and I'll continue researching
these other encryption methods.

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 1:16 PM, heqami...@runbox.com
 wrote:
> Ralph, Again, use the button reply to list.
>
> Disk encryption don't use gpg. You just have to remember a pass pharase
> that you use for unlock your hard disk.
>
> Installer will overwrite all your disk, but if you want you can skip
> this step by pressing "cancel" button
>
>
> please learn what gpg is and what is luks and use the reply to list button.
>
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/disk_encryption
>

Re: [OT]: May Day

Piyavkin writes:
> But, I wonder, /whom/ exactly did you bear in mind when you triggered
> «politics detection» alert at words «professional parasites»? )
> ...Ouch!

Politicians, most likely.  All of them.  It's not true, of course.  Many
of them are amateur parasites.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Multiple live iso's on a single bootable flash drive?

On Mon 02 May 2016 at 17:54:35 +0300, Piyavkin wrote:

> On 01.05.2016 17:55, Brian wrote:
> >On Sat 30 Apr 2016 at 21:02:56 +0300, Piyavkin wrote:
> >
> >>What's wrong with it?
> >
> >Nothing, but a Ubuntu live ISO serves a different purpose from the
> >Debian installer. Which is not to say enhancing a netinst ISO is not
> >worthwhile and would benefit a few people. Patches to have iso-scan in
> >these ISOs' initrds were provided a couple of years ago and booting an
> >ISO with GRUB is on the installer team's list of feature requests.
> >Meanwhile, there is hd-media and a extra stanza in grub.cfg.
> 
> Well, and that's a good part of the story.
> As I can see, the all needed functionality is already here. It just waiting
> for some reason to be incorporated in distros.

Shall we compare like and like? Not a Ubuntu (or other live image) with
the Debian installer but a Ubuntu live image with a Debian live image.
All six of the Debian live images can be copied to a single partition
and a selected one booted with GRUB. No difference compared with Ubuntu.

Any of the running live images can be installed to hard disk, Again no
difference compared with Ubuntu.

Where's the problem for a new or experienced user? What need is there
for iso-scan to be incorporated into a netinst initrd?

> >Not a decent argument. Operations such as partitioning and formatting a
> >USB stick and installing GRUB to its MBR all require root privilege.
> 
> Of course, but the point is: with which «case there are lesser chances» to
> shoot in own leg:
> 
> Case 1: do sudo work and pay proper attention 1 time and fit for all.
> 
> Case 2: do it every time when you update your boot collection on the
> USB-drive.

The events are independent. Carrying out an operation more than once
does not change the probability of carrying it out correctly. I can
claim I have used 'ls -l' fifty times in a day without error. :)

(Incidentally, a simple udev .rules file avoids having to be root to
deal with a USB stick, so the issue doesn't arise for me).

[...Snip...]

> 3-rd, I guess, typical Debian user is not a total Linux newbie, who's
> problem are an ordinary partitioning process or grub install. I guess, them
> more interested in such capabilities as to boot multiple OS/versions from
> one partition or to run installers from virtually any commont USB-drive
> (properly prepared in advance and easily reconfigurable in use). And
> unexplained complication here — that is a problem.
> 
> As living illustration to the last point we may look at our real situation:
> desirable multiboot from single flash drive (see subj of the thread). One
> solution suggests doing partitioning and all the hard stuff just once. Other
> — every time when new image added or old one changed and the complexity of
> the solution is growing with the changes. OK, I see that mapping .iso to
> stick is useful in some common situations (when you, for example, wish to
> present ready to use flash drive installer to someone else). But why the
> redundant work should be forced upon a user in a slightly more sophisticated
> situations? Can it lead to the situation when a skilled user (the target
> audience of the Debian) just be reluctant or simply tired repartitioning
> their USB-drive with every release and settle down with Linux distribs that
> do not demand to much without a reason?

Nothing is forced upon a user. Six Debian live images. One partition.
Add new images when necessary. Install if you wish. Multiboot without
tears. The OP probably has it up and running by now.

> Resume: I advocate that both alternatives should be presented in Debian
> distros. That'll make me happier.

They are! You should be overjoyed.

If you have gained the impression that isco-scan in a netboot initrd
would not be unwelcome to me but I won't lose any sleep over its
omission, then you have interpreted my feelings correctly.

Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation

2016-05-02 Thread Hans

Hi,
if unsure, start with a livefile system (like knoppix) and use "shred" to 
delete the device.

But be warned: To do so, EVERYTHING will be lost!

After that, you can install any OS you want again.

Best regards

Hans

Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation

2016-05-02 Thread hu2016

Hi,
if unsure, start with a livefile system (like knoppix) and use "shred" to 
delete the device.

But be warned: To do so, EVERYTHING will be lost!

After that, you can install any OS you want again.

Best regards

Hans

Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation

On 05/02/2016 07:39 PM, Ralph Sanchez wrote:
> I can't find a reply to list, I tried reply all, does that work?

yes, good job!

>I currently use PGP for disk encryption, I haven't delved much into
> learning about LUKS, etc but I will now. I also don't use passphrases,

passphrase are just password but more long in character

> I use a minisd card so keylogging software can't catch me entering my
> phrase.

malware can do bad things anyway.

when you power on your laptop only the OS is running and ask for your
password, no need to worry about malware at this time.

Only if someone has physical access to your pc can.

Re: [OT]: May Day

On 02.05.2016 19:05, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

Hi,

Haines Brown wrote:

Incidentally, I'm not suggesting that FOSS is crypto-socialist.

Piyavkin wrote:

No, but it is new growing relations of production.

It's in no way crypto, but quite near to the vision of Karl Marx in the
19th century. He expected it to happen for classic economy after
socialism succeeded and evolved into true communism.

Google found me a nice summary in german language:

Marx also did not imagine that a (from his view) ideal society would emerge
on top of capitalism rather than replacing it.

Have you said «Karl Marx»?!.. Oh, no!.. Lisi will get you! )

If be serious, such changes are going on not only in software industry.
And I don't think it'll be finished even in the near future which may be
surprising in the end. That is a long and incremental process. But it is
a huge subject to discuss in an OT thread in a mail list. Such subjects
should be debated in form of articles in academic manner, I believe [but
try to rise the subject in an economics community, and their political
police will get you too].
Though it may be interesting for you to look also at the Schumpeter's
theory of development. He's usually considered as an opponent to Marx,
but their theories in fact pretty complimentary.

Why don't you consider prof sport activity as a labour? Especially if
you earn by that. What's the sports, by the way?

As to hardship and boredom: first is an objective condition, second is a
subjective attitude and, in my view, should be avoided as deadly sin
whatever situation you happened to be in. Life is too damn short to be
bored.

Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Best wishes to you too!

Best regards,
Dmitry Piyavkin

Re: [OT]: May Day


On 02.05.2016 20:48, John Hasler wrote:

Piyavkin writes:

But, I wonder, /whom/ exactly did you bear in mind when you triggered
«politics detection» alert at words «professional parasites»? )
...Ouch!

Politicians, most likely.  All of them.  It's not true, of course.  Many
of them are amateur parasites.


No way, John! Why you say such about those noble and worthy gentlemen?
Lisi may not think like that!


Best regards,
Dmitry Piyavkin

Re: [OT]: May Day

2016-05-02 Thread Michael Lange

On Mon, 2 May 2016 20:32:17 +0300
Piyavkin  wrote:

> And by mentioned «professional parasites and criminals» I meant in the 
> first place exactly those people who live by criminal, fraud,
> deception, and literally at other's expense. Which is by definition a
> description of lumpen-proletariat (declassified) stratum.

One could however very well argue that your above definition applies
much better to a certain kind of economically very successful people than
to what you call "lumpen-proletariat".
I would by the way strongly request to dismiss the use of the word
"parasite" when speaking about human beings, since  - speaking frankly -
this sounds a lot like nazi-speech, though I of course don't want to
insinuate that anything like that was intended by you. Maybe it is just
that here in germany my ears are more sensitive to this kind of speech.

Regards

Michael

.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

Respect is a rational process
-- McCoy, "The Galileo Seven", stardate 2822.3

Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation

2016-05-02 Thread Michael Luecke

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 7:39 PM, Ralph Sanchez  wrote:
> I can't find a reply to list, I tried reply all, does that work?

It seems so, make sure you're replying to the list's address (here:
"debian-user@lists.debian.org"). It's usually not neccessary to reply
to all [1].  In this lists code of conduct [2] there's the rule, that
one should not send a CC to the original poster unless he requested
it.

> I currently use PGP for disk encryption, I haven't delved much into
> learning about LUKS, etc but I will now. I also don't use passphrases,
> I use a minisd card so keylogging software can't catch me entering my
> phrase.  Thanks for all the advice, I'm pretty sure I know what
> direction I'm heading at this point, and I'll continue researching
> these other encryption methods.

You could use a usb drive or a SD card with a keyfile on it with
dm-crypt/LUKS. Maybe you want to read [3] which is a quiet good howto
for dm-crypt.

Michael

[1] http://david.woodhou.se/reply-to-list.html
[2] https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/index.en.html#codeofconduct
[3] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dm-crypt

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 7:39 PM, Ralph Sanchez  wrote:
> I can't find a reply to list, I tried reply all, does that work? I
> currently use PGP for disk encryption, I haven't delved much into
> learning about LUKS, etc but I will now. I also don't use passphrases,
> I use a minisd card so keylogging software can't catch me entering my
> phrase.  Thanks for all the advice, I'm pretty sure I know what
> direction I'm heading at this point, and I'll continue researching
> these other encryption methods.
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 1:16 PM, heqami...@runbox.com
>  wrote:
>> Ralph, Again, use the button reply to list.
>>
>> Disk encryption don't use gpg. You just have to remember a pass pharase
>> that you use for unlock your hard disk.
>>
>> Installer will overwrite all your disk, but if you want you can skip
>> this step by pressing "cancel" button
>>
>>
>> please learn what gpg is and what is luks and use the reply to list button.
>>
>> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/disk_encryption
>>
>

Re: [OT]: May Day

2016-05-02 Thread Thomas Schmitt

Hi,

Piyavkin wrote:
> Have you said «Karl Marx»?!.. Oh, no!.. Lisi will get you! )

I quote him as sincere contributor to political and economical theory.
Everybody, who pays Value Added Tax, pays for a thing invented by Marx:
The Added Value which - according to his theory - goes into the pockets
of the capital owner. (Thus the consumer pays a tax on it.)

Charlie was not the bad guy in the history of real existing socialism.
He had no power to defend. So he needed no oppression mechanisms.

> What's the sports, by the way?

Programming in C. :))
(A relative of Snooker and Chess. It can be quite exhausting.)

> As to hardship and boredom:

It's what gets paid according to classical protestant work ethics.
(According to the bible it is the penalty for eating apples.)

Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation

First, my apologies to everyone I CC'ed accidently. I thought when I
replied, it was replying to the post not to each email. I'm not used
to replying to things in this manner, I usually only communicate with
people one on one unless on a forum site.

Ha- Thanks for the advice, I'll look into that option too.

Heq- Maybe it's rookie of me, but I wasn't aware of that limitation of
malware, great info. I try to operate on the condition that anything I
don't specifically try to prevent could happen, regardless of if I
think it is or will be possible. Maybe it's paranoia, or OCD. Or both
haha. I was aware of the difference between passphrase and password,
apologies if I made it seem like I didn't. I tend to use whatever
words come to mind sometimes and hope the context is enough to make it
understandable, if I made a mistake it isn't the first time : )

Mic- Thanks for the reading material, and warning about the code of
conduct. I'm usually wary of such things, but as I said, I wasn't
aware of what I was doing until after I had been told so, and thought
I fixed it the first time and apparently not so. Totally my fault and
an oversight.

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 2:19 PM, Michael Luecke
 wrote:
> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 7:39 PM, Ralph Sanchez  wrote:
>> I can't find a reply to list, I tried reply all, does that work?
>
> It seems so, make sure you're replying to the list's address (here:
> "debian-user@lists.debian.org"). It's usually not neccessary to reply
> to all [1].  In this lists code of conduct [2] there's the rule, that
> one should not send a CC to the original poster unless he requested
> it.
>
>> I currently use PGP for disk encryption, I haven't delved much into
>> learning about LUKS, etc but I will now. I also don't use passphrases,
>> I use a minisd card so keylogging software can't catch me entering my
>> phrase.  Thanks for all the advice, I'm pretty sure I know what
>> direction I'm heading at this point, and I'll continue researching
>> these other encryption methods.
>
> You could use a usb drive or a SD card with a keyfile on it with
> dm-crypt/LUKS. Maybe you want to read [3] which is a quiet good howto
> for dm-crypt.
>
> Michael
>
> [1] http://david.woodhou.se/reply-to-list.html
> [2] https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/index.en.html#codeofconduct
> [3] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dm-crypt
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 7:39 PM, Ralph Sanchez  wrote:
>> I can't find a reply to list, I tried reply all, does that work? I
>> currently use PGP for disk encryption, I haven't delved much into
>> learning about LUKS, etc but I will now. I also don't use passphrases,
>> I use a minisd card so keylogging software can't catch me entering my
>> phrase.  Thanks for all the advice, I'm pretty sure I know what
>> direction I'm heading at this point, and I'll continue researching
>> these other encryption methods.
>>
>> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 1:16 PM, heqami...@runbox.com
>>  wrote:
>>> Ralph, Again, use the button reply to list.
>>>
>>> Disk encryption don't use gpg. You just have to remember a pass pharase
>>> that you use for unlock your hard disk.
>>>
>>> Installer will overwrite all your disk, but if you want you can skip
>>> this step by pressing "cancel" button
>>>
>>>
>>> please learn what gpg is and what is luks and use the reply to list button.
>>>
>>> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/disk_encryption
>>>
>>
>

Re: Multiple live iso's on a single bootable flash drive?

2016-05-02 Thread David Wright

On Mon 02 May 2016 at 18:50:32 (+0100), Brian wrote:
> On Mon 02 May 2016 at 17:54:35 +0300, Piyavkin wrote:
> > On 01.05.2016 17:55, Brian wrote:

> > >Not a decent argument. Operations such as partitioning and formatting a
> > >USB stick and installing GRUB to its MBR all require root privilege.
> > 
> > Of course, but the point is: with which «case there are lesser chances» to
> > shoot in own leg:
> > 
> > Case 1: do sudo work and pay proper attention 1 time and fit for all.
> > 
> > Case 2: do it every time when you update your boot collection on the
> > USB-drive.
> 
> The events are independent. Carrying out an operation more than once
> does not change the probability of carrying it out correctly. I can
> claim I have used 'ls -l' fifty times in a day without error. :)

Er, you've switched argument. It's the probability of carrying
*them* (not *it*) out correctly which is important, and that
probability changes.

If you carry out an operation with a 99% success rate 23 times, the
likelihood of success overall drops to under 80%. Do it 69 times and
you're more likely to fail, than succeed overall.

> (Incidentally, a simple udev .rules file avoids having to be root to
> deal with a USB stick, so the issue doesn't arise for me).

That just makes it easier to accidentally wipe an important stick
(by shifting the point at which you take extra care).

Cheers,
David.

Re: Multiple live iso's on a single bootable flash drive?


On 02.05.2016 20:50, Brian wrote:

On Mon 02 May 2016 at 17:54:35 +0300, Piyavkin wrote:


On 01.05.2016 17:55, Brian wrote:

On Sat 30 Apr 2016 at 21:02:56 +0300, Piyavkin wrote:


What's wrong with it?

Nothing, but a Ubuntu live ISO serves a different purpose from the
Debian installer. Which is not to say enhancing a netinst ISO is not
worthwhile and would benefit a few people. Patches to have iso-scan in
these ISOs' initrds were provided a couple of years ago and booting an
ISO with GRUB is on the installer team's list of feature requests.
Meanwhile, there is hd-media and a extra stanza in grub.cfg.

Well, and that's a good part of the story.
As I can see, the all needed functionality is already here. It just waiting
for some reason to be incorporated in distros.

Shall we compare like and like? Not a Ubuntu (or other live image) with
the Debian installer but a Ubuntu live image with a Debian live image.
All six of the Debian live images can be copied to a single partition
and a selected one booted with GRUB. No difference compared with Ubuntu.

Any of the running live images can be installed to hard disk, Again no
difference compared with Ubuntu.

Where's the problem for a new or experienced user? What need is there
for iso-scan to be incorporated into a netinst initrd?


I thought exactly in the same way.
Though I had to have installer images on my USB-drive with distroes, 
because I'd repeatedly failed to do installation from Debian live images 
(I don't remember details now; as a live images they started fine in all 
other respects). So I have two different images of one distro for live 
play/demonstration, and other one for installation. And here with the 
second one the quest started (you already know the rest).


Never had such issue with Ubuntu, because they have the same image as a 
live and as an installer, and everything needed already have been 
bundled in here by default.
From my personal point of view my user experience with Ubuntu install 
was much more simpler.


If in recent years everything was changed in better way, well, OK then.


Not a decent argument. Operations such as partitioning and formatting a
USB stick and installing GRUB to its MBR all require root privilege.

Of course, but the point is: with which «case there are lesser chances» to
shoot in own leg:

Case 1: do sudo work and pay proper attention 1 time and fit for all.

Case 2: do it every time when you update your boot collection on the
USB-drive.

The events are independent. Carrying out an operation more than once
does not change the probability of carrying it out correctly. I can
claim I have used 'ls -l' fifty times in a day without error. :)


Pff! I can easily do 'ls -l' 62 times! )


(Incidentally, a simple udev .rules file avoids having to be root to
deal with a USB stick, so the issue doesn't arise for me).

[...Snip...]


3-rd, I guess, typical Debian user is not a total Linux newbie, who's
problem are an ordinary partitioning process or grub install. I guess, them
more interested in such capabilities as to boot multiple OS/versions from
one partition or to run installers from virtually any commont USB-drive
(properly prepared in advance and easily reconfigurable in use). And
unexplained complication here — that is a problem.

As living illustration to the last point we may look at our real situation:
desirable multiboot from single flash drive (see subj of the thread). One
solution suggests doing partitioning and all the hard stuff just once. Other
— every time when new image added or old one changed and the complexity of
the solution is growing with the changes. OK, I see that mapping .iso to
stick is useful in some common situations (when you, for example, wish to
present ready to use flash drive installer to someone else). But why the
redundant work should be forced upon a user in a slightly more sophisticated
situations? Can it lead to the situation when a skilled user (the target
audience of the Debian) just be reluctant or simply tired repartitioning
their USB-drive with every release and settle down with Linux distribs that
do not demand to much without a reason?

Nothing is forced upon a user. Six Debian live images. One partition.
Add new images when necessary. Install if you wish. Multiboot without
tears. The OP probably has it up and running by now.


I hop so (about the OP). There is no news from him. I'm worrying (for 
him and for his hdd).


  

Resume: I advocate that both alternatives should be presented in Debian
distros. That'll make me happier.

They are! You should be overjoyed.

If you have gained the impression that isco-scan in a netboot initrd
would not be unwelcome to me but I won't lose any sleep over its
omission, then you have interpreted my feelings correctly.



OK, I'm overjoyed then.


Best regards,
Dmitry Piyavkin

Re: [OT]: May Day

Michael Lange writes:
> I would by the way strongly request to dismiss the use of the word
> "parasite" when speaking about human beings, since - speaking frankly
> - this sounds a lot like nazi-speech

So does any classification of people into "them" and "us".
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: [OT]: May Day

Piyavkin writes:
> Why you say such about those noble and worthy gentlemen?

Well, of course, the epithet applies only to politicians in the other
parties.  The ones in mine are all noble and worthy gentlemen selflessly
dedicated to the Cause.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: cross-debootstrap error

2016-05-02 Thread Diddier Hilarion

I had the exact same error when I did it with armel. The problem was I 
was using a ntfs filesystem as the base for the debootstrap, so i guess 
that caused a problem related to fs permissions.


I did the process again in my root fs (ext4) and all went excelent. 
Thanks for your help.



On 01/05/16 10:36, Santiago Vila wrote:

Christian Seiler wrote:


This is really weird, especially since /etc/os-release is owned by
base-files, so it should only be created when the package is installed,

Yes, it is weird, but debootstrap has to put everything together, so
if it has to put the symlink in place before unpacking base-files, that
would be allowed (as far as everything else works, that is).


and it also shouldn't be a symbolic link but rather a regular file.

No. In jessie, it's a symlink. This is explained in the changelog for
base-files 7.4.

Diddier Hilarion wrote:


//Unpacking base-files (8+deb8u4) ...//
//dpkg: error processing archive
/var/cache/apt/archives/base-files_8+deb8u4_arm64.deb (--install)://
// symbolic link '/etc/os-release' size has changed from 50 to 21//

The right size is 21 indeed (it's the number of chars in the destination,
i.e. "../usr/lib/os-release") so I wonder where the 50 comes from.

Re: [OT]: May Day

2016-05-02 Thread Michael Lange

On Mon, 02 May 2016 14:52:26 -0500
John Hasler  wrote:

> Michael Lange writes:
> > I would by the way strongly request to dismiss the use of the word
> > "parasite" when speaking about human beings, since - speaking frankly
> > - this sounds a lot like nazi-speech
> 
> So does any classification of people into "them" and "us".

To some extent, but I feel classifying people into "us humans" and "them
animals" is even a lot worse.

Regards

Michael

.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

No one wants war.
-- Kirk, "Errand of Mercy", stardate 3201.7

Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation

2016-05-02 Thread Thomas D Dial

Yes, from my experience it is safe. You may have to add a partition
table before formatting it. If I recall correctly, cfdisk will complain
mildly and ask you to do that. The Linux installer might take it in
stride, or you might have to run fdisk or cfdisk from the USB ISO.

Tom Dial


On 05/02/2016 09:00 AM, CD Lexi wrote:
> Hey everyone. I'm currently looking to switch to Debian from Windows. I
> used to love windows, but with every upgrade it seems I lose privacy,
> control and honestly functionality. Sure, there's a lot more I can, if
> that wasn't mitigated by what windows wants me to do at the time. I
> should have never even moved on to 10...constantly interrupting or
> flogging my system to ask me to upgrade in the middle of sensitive work
> should have been my tip offI digress...
> 
> My question is this: I know what Zero and Random fills do to a drive, I
> run them on every USB and Sd/MSD card I buy or retrieve, and everytime I
> repurpose them. But I've never done this to a HDD and my laptop is my
> only accessible PC aside from my Galaxy S6. I've backed up all my
> important documents to multiple cloud locations, so I'm not worried
> about losing user data. I'm just wandering, is it safe to Zero Fill an
> HDD before installing Debian from a USB ISO? I know I can boot to the
> ISO and Zero or Random Fill, or other sani methods from the USB Booted
> Debian, but will doing this to my hard drive stop me from being able to
> install from the USB to the HDD? I guess because I've never really
> messed with the BIOS in windows, aside from neccisity, I'm just worried
> if I zero fill and for some reason my laptop reboots before the new
> install, it won't boot from the USB anymore and thus make me have to
> find another computer from which to install DB. This is probably a
> rookie question, but better safe then sorry with my first full HDD
> sanitzation. Thanks!!!
>

Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation

Also for the record, reasons I hate windows: It keeps defaulting to
another email I created for testing out some email thing instead of
the one I think i'm currently signed in under. FML. lol

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 6:53 PM, Thomas D Dial  wrote:
> Yes, from my experience it is safe. You may have to add a partition
> table before formatting it. If I recall correctly, cfdisk will complain
> mildly and ask you to do that. The Linux installer might take it in
> stride, or you might have to run fdisk or cfdisk from the USB ISO.
>
> Tom Dial
>
>
> On 05/02/2016 09:00 AM, CD Lexi wrote:
>> Hey everyone. I'm currently looking to switch to Debian from Windows. I
>> used to love windows, but with every upgrade it seems I lose privacy,
>> control and honestly functionality. Sure, there's a lot more I can, if
>> that wasn't mitigated by what windows wants me to do at the time. I
>> should have never even moved on to 10...constantly interrupting or
>> flogging my system to ask me to upgrade in the middle of sensitive work
>> should have been my tip offI digress...
>>
>> My question is this: I know what Zero and Random fills do to a drive, I
>> run them on every USB and Sd/MSD card I buy or retrieve, and everytime I
>> repurpose them. But I've never done this to a HDD and my laptop is my
>> only accessible PC aside from my Galaxy S6. I've backed up all my
>> important documents to multiple cloud locations, so I'm not worried
>> about losing user data. I'm just wandering, is it safe to Zero Fill an
>> HDD before installing Debian from a USB ISO? I know I can boot to the
>> ISO and Zero or Random Fill, or other sani methods from the USB Booted
>> Debian, but will doing this to my hard drive stop me from being able to
>> install from the USB to the HDD? I guess because I've never really
>> messed with the BIOS in windows, aside from neccisity, I'm just worried
>> if I zero fill and for some reason my laptop reboots before the new
>> install, it won't boot from the USB anymore and thus make me have to
>> find another computer from which to install DB. This is probably a
>> rookie question, but better safe then sorry with my first full HDD
>> sanitzation. Thanks!!!
>>
>

Re: Zero filling my HDD before installation

2016-05-02 Thread CD Lexi

Thanks Tom, jic I still take that route. It seems that installing the OS
and then ecrypting it during the install will do the same job as running
something like Sdelete or Dban, or any other similar program, so I think
just to stay on the safe side not knowing how this particular HDD will
react I'll do it that way and if I ever feel the need, I'll just replace
the HDD and degausse (spelling?? lol) this one.

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 6:53 PM, Thomas D Dial  wrote:

> Yes, from my experience it is safe. You may have to add a partition
> table before formatting it. If I recall correctly, cfdisk will complain
> mildly and ask you to do that. The Linux installer might take it in
> stride, or you might have to run fdisk or cfdisk from the USB ISO.
>
> Tom Dial
>
>
> On 05/02/2016 09:00 AM, CD Lexi wrote:
> > Hey everyone. I'm currently looking to switch to Debian from Windows. I
> > used to love windows, but with every upgrade it seems I lose privacy,
> > control and honestly functionality. Sure, there's a lot more I can, if
> > that wasn't mitigated by what windows wants me to do at the time. I
> > should have never even moved on to 10...constantly interrupting or
> > flogging my system to ask me to upgrade in the middle of sensitive work
> > should have been my tip offI digress...
> >
> > My question is this: I know what Zero and Random fills do to a drive, I
> > run them on every USB and Sd/MSD card I buy or retrieve, and everytime I
> > repurpose them. But I've never done this to a HDD and my laptop is my
> > only accessible PC aside from my Galaxy S6. I've backed up all my
> > important documents to multiple cloud locations, so I'm not worried
> > about losing user data. I'm just wandering, is it safe to Zero Fill an
> > HDD before installing Debian from a USB ISO? I know I can boot to the
> > ISO and Zero or Random Fill, or other sani methods from the USB Booted
> > Debian, but will doing this to my hard drive stop me from being able to
> > install from the USB to the HDD? I guess because I've never really
> > messed with the BIOS in windows, aside from neccisity, I'm just worried
> > if I zero fill and for some reason my laptop reboots before the new
> > install, it won't boot from the USB anymore and thus make me have to
> > find another computer from which to install DB. This is probably a
> > rookie question, but better safe then sorry with my first full HDD
> > sanitzation. Thanks!!!
> >
>

Re: [OT]: May Day

Hi, Dan,

I have come off list because I find all the politics of this very unpleasant.  
But I liked your response (inaccurate as it has turned out to be!!!) and felt 
that it deserved a reply.

On Sunday 01 May 2016 18:58:57 Dan Hitt wrote:
> On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 10:45 AM, Lisi Reisz  wrote:
> > On Sunday 01 May 2016 18:13:38 Dan Hitt wrote:
> >> (And wasn't May day an American idea originally, which
> >> our ruling class wanted to tone down?)
> >
> > I am speechless!!
> >
> > "The earliest May Day celebrations appeared in pre-Christian times, with
> > the Floralia, festival of Flora"  Etc.
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Day
> >
> >
> > Lisi
>
> hahahahaha, my bad for sure Lisi!!
>
> I should have said "Labor Day" instead of "May Day", though.
>
> Because in fact May 1 was chosen as the date for Labor Day (or
> International Worker's Day) because of the murder of four striking workers
> May 4, 1887 in Chicago.

Not according to Wikipedia.  Ah!  I see.  It is more complicated than that.  
You confused me by confusing Labor Day and International Workers Day.  See my 
trail below!!!  One even has to distinguish between Labor Day and Labour 
Day!!

So it is all a bit circular!!  But I find the concepts of "International 
Workers Day" and "the proletariat" intrinsically unpleasant.  I am in 
sympathy with Eric Blair (aka George Orwell).  It is as wrong to murder 
someone for being an aristo as it is to murder him for being a peasant.

Lisi
---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Day

History[edit]
Beginning in the late 19th century, as the trade union and labor movements 
grew, different groups of trade unionists chose a variety of days on which to 
celebrate labor. In the United States and Canada, a September holiday, called 
Labor or Labour Day, was first proposed in the 1880s. In 1882, Matthew 
Maguire, a machinist, first proposed a Labor Day holiday while serving as 
secretary of the Central Labor Union (CLU) of New York.[2] Some maintain that 
Peter J. McGuire of the American Federation of Labor put forward the first 
proposal in May 1882,[1] after witnessing the annual labour festival held in 
Toronto, Canada.[3] In 1887 Oregon became the first state of the United 
States to make Labor Day an official public holiday. By the time it became an 
official federal holiday in 1894, thirty U.S. states officially celebrated 
Labor Day.[1] Thus by 1887 in North America, Labor Day was an established, 
official holiday.[4]

Following the deaths of workers at the hands of United States Army and United 
States Marshals Service during the Pullman Strike of 1894, the United States 
Congress unanimously voted to approve legislation to make Labor Day a 
national holiday and President Grover Cleveland signed it into law six days 
after the end of the strike.[5] Cleveland supported the creation of the 
national holiday in an attempt to shore up support among trade unions 
following the Pullman Strike.[6] 
**
The date of May 1 (an ancient European holiday known as May Day) was an 
alternative date, celebrated then (and now) as International Workers Day, but 
President Cleveland was concerned that observance of Labor Day on May 1 would 
encourage Haymarket-style protests and would strengthen socialist and 
anarchist movements that, though distinct from one another, had rallied to 
commemorate the Haymarket Affair in International Workers' Day.[6][7]
All U.S. states, the District of Columbia, and the United States territories 
have made Labor Day a statutory holiday.
8

BUT
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Workers%27_Day
International Workers' Day, also known as Labour Day in some places, is a 
celebration of labourers and the working classes that is promoted by the 
international labour movement, socialists, communists and anarchists and 
occurs every year on May Day, 1 May, an European spring holiday since the 
late 19th and early 20th century.[1][2] The date was chosen for International 
Workers' Day by the Second International, a pan-national organization of 
socialist and communist political parties, to commemorate the Haymarket 
affair, which occurred in Chicago on 4 May 1886.[2]

 The 1904 International Socialist Conference in Amsterdam, the Sixth 
Conference of the Second International, called on "all Social Democratic 
Party organisations and trade unions of all countries to demonstrate 
energetically on the First of May for the legal establishment of the 8-hour 
day, for the class demands of the proletariat, and for universal peace."[3]
Being a traditional European spring celebration, May Day is a national public 
holiday in many countries, but in only some of those countries is it 
celebrated specifically as "Labour Day" or "International Workers' Day". Some 
countries celebrate a Labour Day on other dates significant to them, such as 
the United States, which celebra

Re: debian-user-digest Digest V2016 #417

2016-05-02 Thread Tom Dial

Although encryption of the disk (as offered during installation) is a
good idea, it protects against loss of the system or disk while powered
down. It does not protect against unauthorized access to the running
system, and if the threat model includes that, zeroing (or better yet,
multiply overwriting with varying patterns and then zeroing) offers
protection that disk encryption does not.

Neither action protects against determined state equivalent actors or
malware implanted in the drive controller.

Tom Dial

On 05/02/2016 11:17 AM, debian-user-digest-requ...@lists.debian.org wrote:

Re: debian-user-digest Digest V2016 #417

Tom-That's what I thought too, but I thought someone said earlier that
during the install w/ encryption, Debian would also zero the disk, or
maybe I'm mistaken. As far as the process if I did what your
suggesting and I was going to do, would it work like this...

Boot from USB Live ISO

Run choice zero/random pattern overwrite program

Install from USB Live

lol I know it seems simple and like I should know the answer, but I've
never even fully formatted a HDD myself, never had a reason too
(degaussed one, the only other one I ever used haha had that Compaq
Presario tower for yers) so I guess I was worried if something
happened to make the system reboot with the HDD completely gone the
BIOS system wouldn't boot from the USB either then. I guess this comes
down to not knowing much about the Bios itself, where it's located and
how it works. It's funny how we pass over the simple things when
learning the bigger things we think are more important haha

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 7:03 PM, Tom Dial  wrote:
> Although encryption of the disk (as offered during installation) is a
> good idea, it protects against loss of the system or disk while powered
> down. It does not protect against unauthorized access to the running
> system, and if the threat model includes that, zeroing (or better yet,
> multiply overwriting with varying patterns and then zeroing) offers
> protection that disk encryption does not.
>
> Neither action protects against determined state equivalent actors or
> malware implanted in the drive controller.
>
> Tom Dial
>
> On 05/02/2016 11:17 AM, debian-user-digest-requ...@lists.debian.org wrote:
>

Re: Posting picture files

2016-05-02 Thread Gary Roach


On 05/02/2016 07:01 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Monday 02 May 2016 06:18:02 Vincent Lefevre wrote:


On 2016-04-30 23:20:07 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Saturday 30 April 2016 21:12:00 Gary Roach wrote:

I understand that I should not use attachments on debian-user or
send anything other than plain text files. This leaves me with a
problem if I wish to post a screen shot. I have been told that
debian has a paste bin. Does anyone know the url for that bin.

Gary R



Or better: https://paste.debian.net/

Working from 81 yo & rusty wet ram. :(  Thank you for the correction.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
You know, I just looked at http://paste.debian,net. The site seems to be 
more for pasting code snippets than anything else. While there is 
nothing wrong with this, I don't see why they don't just paste the code 
directly into their email message. That said, the site didn't seem to be 
set up very well for pictures. At least that is my first impression. 
Wouldn't be the first time that that was wrong though.


This dial up thing is a pain. I just found an article from CNN that 
there are still 2.1 million aol customers using dial up connection. 
($20/mo.). Someone needs to figure out a way to handle this without 
penalizing the rest of us.


Gary R.

Gary R.

Re: Posting picture files

On the subject of Dialup, and this is me speaking for just me, but I'd
rather have to walk five blocks everytime I need internet then spend
20 a month on dial up :/ I guess a lot of those 2.1 million customers
probably live in very rural areas where maybe other forms aren't
available, or the cost to lay wire would be more then they have. My
thinking is, we have GPS that works nearly (ok maybe not) everywhere
you'd go and want internet, so why hasn't some billionaire or
multi-billion or trillion dollar company decided to provide a wifi
type service in the same way?? I'd think if my galaxy s6 can beam
receive, beam back and re-receive data from 3 different sources at the
same time fast enough to have a mildly reliable map of where I am, how
fast i'm going and traffic conditions we could access the web at the
same speed or faster. Totally off topic, sorry

On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 7:38 PM, Gary Roach  wrote:
> On 05/02/2016 07:01 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>
>> On Monday 02 May 2016 06:18:02 Vincent Lefevre wrote:
>>
>>> On 2016-04-30 23:20:07 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

 On Saturday 30 April 2016 21:12:00 Gary Roach wrote:
>
> I understand that I should not use attachments on debian-user or
> send anything other than plain text files. This leaves me with a
> problem if I wish to post a screen shot. I have been told that
> debian has a paste bin. Does anyone know the url for that bin.
>
> Gary R

>>>
>>> Or better: https://paste.debian.net/
>>
>> Working from 81 yo & rusty wet ram. :(  Thank you for the correction.
>>
>>
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> You know, I just looked at http://paste.debian,net. The site seems to be
> more for pasting code snippets than anything else. While there is nothing
> wrong with this, I don't see why they don't just paste the code directly
> into their email message. That said, the site didn't seem to be set up very
> well for pictures. At least that is my first impression. Wouldn't be the
> first time that that was wrong though.
>
> This dial up thing is a pain. I just found an article from CNN that there
> are still 2.1 million aol customers using dial up connection. ($20/mo.).
> Someone needs to figure out a way to handle this without penalizing the rest
> of us.
>
> Gary R.
>
> Gary R.
>

Re: debian-user-digest Digest V2016 #417

On Tuesday 03 May 2016 00:38:05 Ralph Sanchez wrote:
> Tom-That's what I thought too, but I thought someone said earlier that
> during the install w/ encryption, Debian would also zero the disk, or
> maybe I'm mistaken. As far as the process if I did what your
> suggesting and I was going to do, would it work like this...
>
> Boot from USB Live ISO
>
> Run choice zero/random pattern overwrite program

Run Live CD/USB of some kind and run a partitioning program.

> Install from USB Live

Before installing, run the six live CDs and make sure which DE you want.  It 
makes a big difference.  Speaking personally, I would avoid Gnome and KDE.  
You can always add them later.

If you are convinced that you want to install Debian, then at this stage I 
would install from the net-install CD in the yellow box well down the page:
https://www.debian.org/releases/jessie/debian-installer/

If there are problems, go back to the Live CD.

My 2p worth.

Lisi
>
> lol I know it seems simple and like I should know the answer, but I've
> never even fully formatted a HDD myself, never had a reason too
> (degaussed one, the only other one I ever used haha had that Compaq
> Presario tower for yers) so I guess I was worried if something
> happened to make the system reboot with the HDD completely gone the
> BIOS system wouldn't boot from the USB either then. I guess this comes
> down to not knowing much about the Bios itself, where it's located and
> how it works. It's funny how we pass over the simple things when
> learning the bigger things we think are more important haha
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 7:03 PM, Tom Dial  wrote:
> > Although encryption of the disk (as offered during installation) is a
> > good idea, it protects against loss of the system or disk while powered
> > down. It does not protect against unauthorized access to the running
> > system, and if the threat model includes that, zeroing (or better yet,
> > multiply overwriting with varying patterns and then zeroing) offers
> > protection that disk encryption does not.
> >
> > Neither action protects against determined state equivalent actors or
> > malware implanted in the drive controller.
> >
> > Tom Dial
> >
> > On 05/02/2016 11:17 AM, debian-user-digest-requ...@lists.debian.org
> > wrote:

Re: Posting picture files

On Tuesday 03 May 2016 00:38:53 Gary Roach wrote:
> Someone needs to figure out a way to handle this without
> penalizing the rest of us.

"The rest of us" don't have any desire to send pictures and are not being 
penalised.

Lisi

Re: Posting picture files