Re: LXDE Display Coordination

[Felix Miata]

ray composed on 2015-11-01 11:26 (UTC-0800):

> Thank you for the post.  The challenge I have with changing the font is
> there are many places where this seems must be done.  For example, I can
> set the desktop font but not the panel font nor the fonts of the pop ups.
> Each application has its own font control.

> Additionally, when booting, it takes 12 seconds to paint the high res
> screen.  And the text is not legible; although the text during the boot
> process is quite large.  As I am building this, I reboot a lot, so I don't
> like any waiting.  So once I get the desktop lined up, I will be looking
> for a solution resolution during booting.

I just did a fresh Stretch install with LXDE to confirm nothing's changed
lately. Recent Intel video driver versions are picking up video= from cmdline
to make the Xorg default. I typically include video=1440x900@60 on kernel
cmdline with a 1680x1050 display. With Intel video driver, this makes X start
in 1440x900 unless overridden by xorg.conf* or xrandr. With this fresh
installation, I put 'xrandr --dpi 108 --output VGA1 --mode 1680x1050' in a
startup script in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ to get LXDE to start in the display's
native 1680x1050 mode and using an artificial DPI to enlarge Xorg objects
(including text) 26.5% (1.125^2; 108/96 ^2) over default.

Whether ATI or Nouveau drivers are picking up video= from kernel cmdline I've
not checked lately. Nevertheless, if you want to run some mode other than
your display's native mode without needing to fiddle with any DE's settings,
it remains possible using xrandr as I did (or as Charlie suggested via ~/),
or setting PreferredMode in /etc/X11/xorg.conf*.
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?

[Joe]

On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 09:27:42 +0200
Alex Moonshine  wrote:

> On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 16:52:37 -0700
> Rick Thomas  wrote:
> 
> > As shown below, aptitude has been progressively downgraded from
> > “important” in oldstable (Wheezy) to “standard” in stable (Jessie),
> > “standard” in testing (Stretch) and finally to “optional” in
> > unstable (Sid)  
> 
> > And exim4 has gone from “standard” in all versions (at least those I
> > have access to) before testing to “optional” in testing and above.
> > 
> > I have a small script I run after finishing any install that loads
> > and configures several packages that I use regularly but are not
> > included in a standard install.  It just got a whole lot bigger!
> > 
> > Sigh!
> > Rick  
> 
> To be honest, I see no reason at all why two package managers needed
> to be included in standard install. If you aren't happy with apt-get,
> just apt-get install aptitude. It seems beyond question to me that
> having bare minimum to start with and adding things you need from
> there is a much cleaner and better way of doing things than having
> several tools with the same function and having to get rid of one. So
> a very sensible change, I only wonder what was the thinking behind
> the initial approach.

Not in the base system, no, but I'd expect it to be included in any
system which might be used by newcomers to Linux. A lot of Internet
sites include installation instructions using aptitude, without
mentioning any alternatives, or even that there are any. Similarly, a
desktop system other than a minimalist one should include Synaptic.

-- 
Joe

verizon-netgear aircard 791L (USB) + debian jessie

[rlharris]

I am pleased to report that the newly-available (October 2015) Verizon
791L "Jetpack" (aka Netgear "AirCard") appears to be compatible in
tethered mode (USB) with Debian Jessie i386 with the Xfce desktop and
NetworkManager.

The sequence of events was:

(1) Immediately out of the box, and without configuration, the AirCard
provided Internet access via Wi-Fi to an i386 system running Windows 7
"Home Premium".

(2) Next, the AirCard Wi-Fi was turned OFF and a USB cable (or "tether")
was used to connect the Aircard to the computer.  The AirCard web
administrative interface at 192.168.1.1 was accessed and settings could be
changed, but Windows appeared to be confused when attempting to connect to
the Internet through the USB cable, even after restarting the machine. 
However, after ten to fifteen minutes, a connection magically was made,
after which the system worked normally, so that web sites could be
browsed.

(3) Then, after Wi-Fi was turned on again, the AirCard provided Internet
access via Wi-Fi to an i386 system running Debian Jessie.

(4) Finally, a USB cable was used to connect the Aircard to the computer. 
The AirCard web administrative interface at 192.168.1.1 was accessed and
settings could be changed; also, web sites could be browsed via the USB
connection.

The AirCard manual says that drivers must be downloaded for Windows XP;
the manual makes no mention of Linux compatibility.  In the Jetpack manual
which may be downloaded from the Verizon web site, the names "Netgear" and
"AirCard" appear often.

Beware: Verizon still has in stock the previous version of the "Jetpack",
at the same price ($200 without contract).  But the older version is by a
different manufacturer and cannot be used worldwide.

Russ

Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?

[Rick Thomas]

On Nov 2, 2015, at 12:45 AM, Joe  wrote:

>> To be honest, I see no reason at all why two package managers needed
>> to be included in standard install. If you aren't happy with apt-get,
>> just apt-get install aptitude. It seems beyond question to me that
>> having bare minimum to start with and adding things you need from
>> there is a much cleaner and better way of doing things than having
>> several tools with the same function and having to get rid of one. So
>> a very sensible change, I only wonder what was the thinking behind
>> the initial approach.
> 
> Not in the base system, no, but I'd expect it to be included in any
> system which might be used by newcomers to Linux. A lot of Internet
> sites include installation instructions using aptitude, without
> mentioning any alternatives, or even that there are any. Similarly, a
> desktop system other than a minimalist one should include Synaptic.
> 
> -- 
> Joe

+1 for Joe.

Requiring a newcomer to install aptitude before she can follow the simple 
step-by-step instructions she downloaded from the web — or alternatively 
requiring all the helpful folks who posted those step-by-step instructions to 
go back and modify them…  That’s not what I’d call “newbie friendly”. 

Rick

where does unstable appear from?

[Andrey Rybak]

Thats my sources list:
# less /etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian testing main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian testing main contrib non-free
deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ testing-updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ testing-updates main contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main contrib non-free
deb http://debian-mirrors.sdinet.de/debian-multimedia stable main
deb-src http://debian-mirrors.sdinet.de/debian-multimedia stable mainAs we can 
see - i must have testing branch only
But:
# lsb_release -a
No LSB modules are available.
Distributor ID:    Debian
Description:    Debian GNU/Linux testing/unstable
Release:    testing/unstableCodename:    n/awhere does unstable appear from?
And i have very strange situation - i can not install filezilla:#aptitude 
install filezilla
No candidate version found for filezilla 
No candidate version found for filezillaWhat is wrong with my 
sources.list?Thanks in advance.

Re: where does unstable appear from?

[Alex Moonshine]

Testing/unstable is just a common release name for testing AND unstable.
Your sources.list is fine. Filezilla package isn't present in 
testing/stretch (see https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/filezilla). In 
fact, if you were running sid, you'd be able to install it.

Re: where does unstable appear from?

[Brad Rogers]

On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:20:21 + (UTC)
Andrey Rybak  wrote:

Hello Andrey,

>Release:    testing/unstableCodename:    n/awhere does unstable appear

I've never been sure myself but, for as long as I've used testing,
testing systems have always been labelled that way.

>filezilla:#aptitude install filezilla No candidate version found for

Filezilla has been removed for testing.  AIUI, due to missing
dependencies.  Hopefully, this is temporary.  There are alternative ftp
programs, obviously.

>filezilla No candidate version found for filezillaWhat is wrong with my
>sources.list?

AFAICT, there's nothing wrong with your sources.list

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
Junk floats on polluted water
Hong Kong Garden - Siouxsie & The Banshees


pgp9y6e8h8121.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?

[Brian]

On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 01:33:01 -0800, Rick Thomas wrote:

> On Nov 2, 2015, at 12:45 AM, Joe  wrote:
> 
> >> To be honest, I see no reason at all why two package managers needed
> >> to be included in standard install. If you aren't happy with apt-get,
> >> just apt-get install aptitude. It seems beyond question to me that
> >> having bare minimum to start with and adding things you need from
> >> there is a much cleaner and better way of doing things than having
> >> several tools with the same function and having to get rid of one. So
> >> a very sensible change, I only wonder what was the thinking behind
> >> the initial approach.
> > 
> > Not in the base system, no, but I'd expect it to be included in any
> > system which might be used by newcomers to Linux. A lot of Internet
> > sites include installation instructions using aptitude, without
> > mentioning any alternatives, or even that there are any. Similarly, a
> > desktop system other than a minimalist one should include Synaptic.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Joe
> 
> +1 for Joe.
> 
> Requiring a newcomer to install aptitude before she can follow the
> simple step-by-step instructions she downloaded from the web — or
> alternatively requiring all the helpful folks who posted those
> step-by-step instructions to go back and modify them…  That’s not what
> I’d call “newbie friendly”.

The helpful folks at Debian also produce copious documentation (a Guide,
Release Notes etc). At release time these tend to be up to date and are
much more useful to newcomers and experienced users than any random web
page.

Perhaps submitting a bug report (plus a patch) against the Release Notes
would cover the changed priority situation (standard to optional) for
affected packages.

Re: where does unstable appear from?

[Brian]

On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 10:58:15 +, Andrey Rybak wrote:

> thanks for your answer.its very strange for me that it is not possible
> to use filezilla in testing. i was using testing brunch in several
> years and filezilla was presenting in there. am i right? is it ok if i
> will change "testing" to "stratch"?

That's ok. At present tt won't alter the list of available packages or
what upgrade/dist-upgrade downloads.

Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 02 November 2015 11:16:11 Brian wrote:
> On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 01:33:01 -0800, Rick Thomas wrote:
> > On Nov 2, 2015, at 12:45 AM, Joe  wrote:
> > >> To be honest, I see no reason at all why two package managers needed
> > >> to be included in standard install. If you aren't happy with apt-get,
> > >> just apt-get install aptitude. It seems beyond question to me that
> > >> having bare minimum to start with and adding things you need from
> > >> there is a much cleaner and better way of doing things than having
> > >> several tools with the same function and having to get rid of one. So
> > >> a very sensible change, I only wonder what was the thinking behind
> > >> the initial approach.
> > >
> > > Not in the base system, no, but I'd expect it to be included in any
> > > system which might be used by newcomers to Linux. A lot of Internet
> > > sites include installation instructions using aptitude, without
> > > mentioning any alternatives, or even that there are any. Similarly, a
> > > desktop system other than a minimalist one should include Synaptic.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Joe
> >
> > +1 for Joe.
> >
> > Requiring a newcomer to install aptitude before she can follow the
> > simple step-by-step instructions she downloaded from the web — or
> > alternatively requiring all the helpful folks who posted those
> > step-by-step instructions to go back and modify them…  That’s not what
> > I’d call “newbie friendly”.
>
> The helpful folks at Debian also produce copious documentation (a Guide,
> Release Notes etc). At release time these tend to be up to date and are
> much more useful to newcomers and experienced users than any random web
> page.

But people often use random web pages.  And not all of us are fully 
able-bodied.  You would appear to be able to read well and fast.  Not all of 
us are that fortunate.

Minimal should be minimal.  But fuller installations should definitely not be 
minimal.  Having more than one of each application there can be very useful, 
in giving the opportunity easily to try to see which one likes.

I deprecate the creeping Ubuntuisation of Debian.  Minimal should be minimal.  
Otherwise we should avoid dictating and give plenty of choice.  

Lisi

> Perhaps submitting a bug report (plus a patch) against the Release Notes
> would cover the changed priority situation (standard to optional) for
> affected packages.

Re: where does unstable appear from?

[Alex Moonshine]

On 11/02/2015 12:58 PM, Andrey Rybak wrote:

thanks for your answer.
its very strange for me that it is not possible to use filezilla in 
testing. i was using testing brunch in several years and filezilla was 
presenting in there. am i right? is it ok if i will change "testing" 
to "stratch"?


No, testing and stretch is currently the same thing. Changing to 
unstable would let you install filezilla (I would actually recommend 
using sid over testing). It's actually very common that package fall in 
and out of testing, there's absolutely nothing strange about that. 
Packages get removed because of bugs, new versions take time to be 
pushed down from unstable. You were just lucky with filezilla, I guess.


Alternatively, adding it to your sources.list and installing it with 
"apt-get -t unstable install filezilla", then removing it from 
sources.list or giving it low priority in /etc/apt/preferences will do 
the trick (consult this: https://wiki.debian.org/AptPreferences).


Be careful, both of those actions that I suggested, performed without 
full awareness of what you are doing  might break your system pretty badly.

Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?

[Brian]

On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 11:37:48 +, Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Monday 02 November 2015 11:16:11 Brian wrote:
> > On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 01:33:01 -0800, Rick Thomas wrote:
> > >
> > > Requiring a newcomer to install aptitude before she can follow the
> > > simple step-by-step instructions she downloaded from the web — or
> > > alternatively requiring all the helpful folks who posted those
> > > step-by-step instructions to go back and modify them…  That’s not what
> > > I’d call “newbie friendly”.
> >
> > The helpful folks at Debian also produce copious documentation (a Guide,
> > Release Notes etc). At release time these tend to be up to date and are
> > much more useful to newcomers and experienced users than any random web
> > page.
> 
> But people often use random web pages.  And not all of us are fully 
> able-bodied.  You would appear to be able to read well and fast.  Not all of 
> us are that fortunate.

I do not see the relevance of this to reading the Debian documentation
accompanying a release. Unless it is thought to be an optional extra. :)

> Minimal should be minimal.  But fuller installations should definitely not be 
> minimal.  Having more than one of each application there can be very useful, 
> in giving the opportunity easily to try to see which one likes.

The context is the purpose of priority levels and what part they play
within the installer. "Minimal" is one factor in making a decision; the
debian-boot thread referenced earlier in the thread gives other reasons.

> I deprecate the creeping Ubuntuisation of Debian.  Minimal should be minimal. 
>  
> Otherwise we should avoid dictating and give plenty of choice.

How does Ubuntu figure in this? As far as I can see, it doesn't.

As far as choice is concerned, you have the choice to install aptitude
or not.

Iceweasel updates

[Jack Dangler]

Got a msg this morning from online bank service that my browser
(iceweasel) is no longer up to date (equates to ff31) and wants to
'either update your browser to a compatible version or install one of
the following - [list of usual suspects].
The next version of iceweasel i found in deb packages is 41 (quite a
jump), but says it is likely buggy (i'm guessing its in experimental).
Has anyone installed this version and had significant issues with it?
I'm stuck for online banking without it unless i install ff or chrome
which I'd rather not do at this point. Thanks for any input/advice.

Jack

Expand your Business

[Dutch.Laraa]

Dear debian.org,

I’m Dutch Laraa, a new age Digital Marketing consultant. I'm here with some
new business insights and probably, this email will answer “Why your
website isn't making money?” After a thorough inspection, my research team
has given an analysis report that reveals,




*●the presence of technical errors●low organic traffic●weak
social presence●impotent reputation*.

It's a fact that, your website is not a billboard and  you can’t just leave
it for years and hope for the maximum. As, the online landscape is
constantly changing and your competitors are making a strong effort to meet
the needs of audiences, you must have to stay current.

Further, you also have to make your website mobile device friendly. If
necessary, more changes in design will be carried out for creating the
captivating landing pages. If you care for your business and interested in
this process, please write me back. My next move will be a detailed  
analysis report

to your mail using my corporate e-mail ID with company identity.

Warm Regards,
*Dutch Laraa*
Digital Marketing consultant

*---DISCLAIMER:
This message is confidential and are intended solely for the use of the
individual to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient
of this email, you must neither take any action based upon its contents,
nor copy or show it to anyone. Please contact the sender if you believe you
have received this email in error. To stop receiving mail from sender,
reply to sender with Subject line - “REMOVE”*

Re: missing directory /lib/modules/3.16.0-4-amd64/build

[Mirko Parthey]

On Mon, Nov 02, 2015 at 12:18:33AM +0600, EVGeny Dedov wrote:
> After reinstall debian I tried to put wireless drivers in OS by usual way 
> (like
> i did it before), and faced with problem when I use "make compile" and "make
> install":
> 
> make[2]: *** /lib/modules/3.16.0-4-amd64/build: Нет такого файла или каталога.
> (error message translation: "no such file or directory")
> [...]
> what's the problem?
> Thanks for attention.

Install the package linux-headers-3.16.0-4-amd64.

Regards
Mirko

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Brad Rogers]

On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 07:19:46 -0500
Jack Dangler  wrote:

Hello Jack,

>Got a msg this morning from online bank service that my browser

Your banking service is being lazy;  They don't want to 'support' an
older version Ff.  If Iceweasel still works on their site, carry on
using it.  Security issues with IW v31 notwithstanding, of course.

Chances are, they're sniffing the ID string simply to figure out what the
browser can handle (flash, java-wise, etc.)  Again, the lazy way to do
it.

I use Pale Moon (a fork of FF), version ID v25, and am constantly
informed my browser is either "out of date" or "unsupported".  Again,
because these sites are being lazy.  It works;  So what do I care?

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent"
This is the fifty first state of the USA
Heartland - The The


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Suspend Issues

[Himanshu Shekhar]

The system after waking from suspend fails to load certains things as :
1. Ethernet connection : Shows cable unplugged, I need to run "service
network-manger restart" to make it work.
2. Multimedia keys (function keys) don't work after waking from suspend if
Rhythmbox is running. I need to restart Rhythmbox to make it work.

And possibly more issues, perhaps not noticed yet.
Is there any fix, or I need to modify some wakeup script? If yes, then
please describe it!

Regards
Himanshu Shekhar

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2015-11-02 12:35:43 +, Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 07:19:46 -0500
> Jack Dangler  wrote:
> >Got a msg this morning from online bank service that my browser
> 
> Your banking service is being lazy;  They don't want to 'support' an
> older version Ff.  If Iceweasel still works on their site, carry on
> using it.  Security issues with IW v31 notwithstanding, of course.

The reason is probably security issues. This may be a good reason
for banking services. FF 31 is no longer supported:

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_release_history

"End-of-life 31.x.x ESR product line on August 11, 2015."

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2015-11-02 07:19:46 -0500, Jack Dangler wrote:
> The next version of iceweasel i found in deb packages is 41 (quite a
> jump), but says it is likely buggy (i'm guessing its in experimental).

Yes, it's in experimental. But 41 is *not* the next version.
The current stable version is 38.3.0esr-1~deb8u1. But...

> Has anyone installed this version and had significant issues with it?

There are some issues in version 38 (also present in some older
versions), and some of them are fixed in version 41, the main one
being the problem with videos that autoplay:

  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=659285

Electrolysis should also solve some problems such as a tab freezing
the whole browser, and one needs a more recent version than 38 (IIRC,
41 should be OK). But I haven't tested yet.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Brian]

On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 13:48:13 +0100, Vincent Lefevre wrote:

> On 2015-11-02 12:35:43 +, Brad Rogers wrote:
> > On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 07:19:46 -0500
> > Jack Dangler  wrote:
> > >Got a msg this morning from online bank service that my browser
> > 
> > Your banking service is being lazy;  They don't want to 'support' an
> > older version Ff.  If Iceweasel still works on their site, carry on
> > using it.  Security issues with IW v31 notwithstanding, of course.
> 
> The reason is probably security issues. This may be a good reason
> for banking services. FF 31 is no longer supported:
> 
>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_release_history
> 
> "End-of-life 31.x.x ESR product line on August 11, 2015."

The reason you advance is probably the one which bank's IT section would
give if you asked them. Quite how a user's browser can compromise the
security of the site itself is unlikely to be explained.

The OP could look at

  https://wiki.debian.org/Iceweasel#User-Agent_string

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Alex Moonshine]

Not really a solution to OPs problem, but I've decided that it's much 
easier to just use a stand-alone precompiled Firefox downloaded from 
Mozilla website, which happily updates itself. Debian's update policy 
for Iceweasel is far from ideal or comprehensive, using third-party 
repositories is bothersome, additionally, my bank's website simply 
refuses to work with any version of Iceweasel, apparently, because the 
userstring doesn't contain anything it looks for 
(Chrome/Firefox/IE/Safari), which is of course stupid in it's own right.

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2015-11-02 13:03:14 +, Brian wrote:
> The reason you advance is probably the one which bank's IT section would
> give if you asked them. Quite how a user's browser can compromise the
> security of the site itself is unlikely to be explained.

The user's browser cannot compromise the site itself. But a security
bug may permit an attacker to get the user's login and password, and
neither the bank nor the user would like this.

> The OP could look at
> 
>   https://wiki.debian.org/Iceweasel#User-Agent_string

Note that if the user tries to overrides the bank security decision
and has his bank account compromised, he will probably get the full
responsibility. I would definitely not recommend to do this.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2015-11-02 15:10:55 +0200, Alex Moonshine wrote:
> Not really a solution to OPs problem, but I've decided that it's
> much easier to just use a stand-alone precompiled Firefox downloaded
> from Mozilla website, which happily updates itself.

But some videos are not supported with official precompiled Firefox
versions due to obsolete gstreamer:

  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=947287

> Debian's update policy for Iceweasel is far from ideal or
> comprehensive, using third-party repositories is bothersome,
> additionally, my bank's website simply refuses to work with any
> version of Iceweasel, apparently, because the userstring doesn't
> contain anything it looks for (Chrome/Firefox/IE/Safari), which is
> of course stupid in it's own right.

You may be using some broken extension. Debian's Iceweasel does have
something like "Firefox/38.0". It seems that Iceweasel/xxx is just
added at the end of the User-Agent string, i.e. this is something
standard + additional information.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 02 November 2015 04:33:01 Rick Thomas wrote:

> On Nov 2, 2015, at 12:45 AM, Joe  wrote:
> >> To be honest, I see no reason at all why two package managers
> >> needed to be included in standard install. If you aren't happy with
> >> apt-get, just apt-get install aptitude. It seems beyond question to
> >> me that having bare minimum to start with and adding things you
> >> need from there is a much cleaner and better way of doing things
> >> than having several tools with the same function and having to get
> >> rid of one. So a very sensible change, I only wonder what was the
> >> thinking behind the initial approach.
> >
> > Not in the base system, no, but I'd expect it to be included in any
> > system which might be used by newcomers to Linux. A lot of Internet
> > sites include installation instructions using aptitude, without
> > mentioning any alternatives, or even that there are any. Similarly,
> > a desktop system other than a minimalist one should include
> > Synaptic.
> >
> > --
> > Joe
>
> +1 for Joe.
>
> Requiring a newcomer to install aptitude before she can follow the
> simple step-by-step instructions she downloaded from the web — or
> alternatively requiring all the helpful folks who posted those
> step-by-step instructions to go back and modify them…  That’s not what
> I’d call “newbie friendly”.
>
> Rick

+2 for Joe.

And because synaptic uses some x fancies that aren't available to root if 
exec'd with a sudo, there is synaptic-pkexec, which asks you for you 
user pw and then runs normally on your x-sessions screen IF you are 
allowed to sudo.  Why this is such a closely held secret, I have NDI.

I see it as a way to discourage its use, when IMO, its the best 
package-manager out there.  Aptitude?  A major PITA everytime I am 
forced to relearn it.  It may be capable, but it its for sure not 
intuitive.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Brian]

On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 15:10:55 +0200, Alex Moonshine wrote:

> Not really a solution to OPs problem, but I've decided that it's much
> easier to just use a stand-alone precompiled Firefox downloaded from
> Mozilla website, which happily updates itself. Debian's update policy
> for Iceweasel is far from ideal or comprehensive, using third-party
> repositories is bothersome, additionally, my bank's website simply
> refuses to work with any version of Iceweasel, apparently, because the
> userstring doesn't contain anything it looks for
> (Chrome/Firefox/IE/Safari), which is of course stupid in it's own
> right.

It takes a minute or two to download and change the user-agent string
with xul-ext-useragentswitcher.

We've had "lazy" and "stupid" for this behaviour of admins; could we add
"braindead"?

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 02 November 2015 07:19:46 Jack Dangler wrote:

> Got a msg this morning from online bank service that my browser
> (iceweasel) is no longer up to date (equates to ff31) and wants to
> 'either update your browser to a compatible version or install one of
> the following - [list of usual suspects].
> The next version of iceweasel i found in deb packages is 41 (quite a
> jump), but says it is likely buggy (i'm guessing its in experimental).
> Has anyone installed this version and had significant issues with it?
> I'm stuck for online banking without it unless i install ff or chrome
> which I'd rather not do at this point. Thanks for any input/advice.
>
> Jack

iceweasel is slowly turning into a space on my drive waster.  38.3.0, on 
wheezy here, and it refused to go to a site link in an email message, 
where I could confirm I wanted to opt in to a new server one of my 
mailing list memberships is moving to, getting away from yahell.  That 
forced the list-owner to have to do it by hand.

It even offered to retry it, but that failed also, with it reporting that 
the destination port was not one normally used for that service and that 
it had canceled that request.

'Scuse me but how can I turn that nannying off?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Brian]

On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 14:17:39 +0100, Vincent Lefevre wrote:

> On 2015-11-02 13:03:14 +, Brian wrote:
> > The reason you advance is probably the one which bank's IT section would
> > give if you asked them. Quite how a user's browser can compromise the
> > security of the site itself is unlikely to be explained.
> 
> The user's browser cannot compromise the site itself. But a security
> bug may permit an attacker to get the user's login and password, and
> neither the bank nor the user would like this.

Would this obtaining of the password be before or after encryption
takes place?

> > The OP could look at
> > 
> >   https://wiki.debian.org/Iceweasel#User-Agent_string
> 
> Note that if the user tries to overrides the bank security decision
> and has his bank account compromised, he will probably get the full
> responsibility. I would definitely not recommend to do this.

I'd maintain the bank's decision on which user-agent to accept has
little or nothing to do with security.

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2015-11-02 13:47:41 +, Brian wrote:
> On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 14:17:39 +0100, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > The user's browser cannot compromise the site itself. But a security
> > bug may permit an attacker to get the user's login and password, and
> > neither the bank nor the user would like this.
> 
> Would this obtaining of the password be before or after encryption
> takes place?

With an XSS[*] vulnerability, before.

[*] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-site_scripting

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: Iceweasel updates

[John Hasler]

Jack Dangler wrote:
> The next version of iceweasel i found in deb packages is 41 (quite a
> jump), but says it is likely buggy (i'm guessing its in experimental).

Unstable has 38.3.  Works fine.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Alex Moonshine]

On 11/02/2015 03:22 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
But some videos are not supported with official precompiled Firefox 
versions due to obsolete gstreamer: 
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=947287


Oh, right. I use gstreamer from http://www.deb-multimedia.org/
Yes, I know I just said using 3-rd party repos are bothersome :) 
Deb-multimedia is somewhat of an exception, I've been using it for a 
long time (since squeeze, I think).

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Charlie Kravetz]

On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 08:00:59 -0600
John Hasler  wrote:

>Jack Dangler wrote:
>> The next version of iceweasel i found in deb packages is 41 (quite a
>> jump), but says it is likely buggy (i'm guessing its in experimental).  
>
>Unstable has 38.3.  Works fine.

The stable release of Firefox is Version 41.0.2, released Oct 15.
Doesn't that make 38 old?


-- 
Charlie Kravetz
Linux Registered User Number 425914
[http://linuxcounter.net/user/425914.html]
Never let anyone steal your DREAM.   [http://keepingdreams.com]

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2015-11-02 07:23:07 -0700, Charlie Kravetz wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 08:00:59 -0600
> John Hasler  wrote:
> 
> >Jack Dangler wrote:
> >> The next version of iceweasel i found in deb packages is 41 (quite a
> >> jump), but says it is likely buggy (i'm guessing its in experimental).  
> >
> >Unstable has 38.3.  Works fine.
> 
> The stable release of Firefox is Version 41.0.2, released Oct 15.

Stable, but not ESR.

> Doesn't that make 38 old?

No, 38 is still the latest ESR release.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Markus Schönhaber]

Am 02.11.2015 um 15:23 schrieb Charlie Kravetz:

> The stable release of Firefox is Version 41.0.2, released Oct 15.
> Doesn't that make 38 old?

No, it doesn't.
38.x is the currently stable extended support release (ESR) of Firefox.

-- 
Regards
  mks

Re: installing/using grub-legacy

[David Wright]

On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 01:14:48 (-0500), Felix Miata wrote:
> Felix Miata composed on 2015-10-23 21:32 (UTC-0500):
> ...
> > Apparently lack of EXT4 support in grub-legacy on Debian is multifaceted
> 
> Problem continues in current incarnation of Stretch.

Does bug #511121 not work for you? Or does its implementation
contradict your original criterion ("In order to Keep It (multiboot)
Stupidly Simple, most booting here is via Grub 0.97.x.").

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GRUB_Legacy
makes an oblique reference to ext4 without any comment, but that lack
may be because the page is aimed at people *preserving* their legacy,
not people making a new installation of Grub Legacy.

It's widely reported that there's no support of Grub Legacy from
upstream, and no new features will be added.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Brian]

On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 14:58:24 +0100, Vincent Lefevre wrote:

> On 2015-11-02 13:47:41 +, Brian wrote:
> > On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 14:17:39 +0100, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > > The user's browser cannot compromise the site itself. But a security
> > > bug may permit an attacker to get the user's login and password, and
> > > neither the bank nor the user would like this.
> > 
> > Would this obtaining of the password be before or after encryption
> > takes place?
> 
> With an XSS[*] vulnerability, before.
> 
> [*] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-site_scripting

Quoting from that page:

  XSS enables attackers to inject client-side script into web pages
  viewed by other users.

The bank's site would be compromised. It wouldn't matter what user-agent
string was sent by the user.

MBNA accepts "My Very own Browser" as the user-agent. RBS says the
browser I am using is not supported, (whatever that means). How remiss
is MBNA in the area of security? 

Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 02 November 2015 12:15:51 Brian wrote:
>  And not all of us are fully
>
> > able-bodied.  You would appear to be able to read well and fast.  Not all
> > of us are that fortunate.
>
> I do not see the relevance of this to reading the Debian documentation
> accompanying a release. Unless it is thought to be an optional extra. :)

I can't, as in can't, read all the documentation.  So I try to pick out the 
headings that obviously really matter, am never an early adopter, and try to 
pay close attention to what other people say.  As I say, you are lucky.

And before you say "Of course you could, if you wanted to", I can't climb 
Mount Everest either.  Not even if I wanted to.

Others are worse off than I am.  No it is not an optional extra.  But some of 
us have to do without all the same.

Lisi

Re: installing/using grub-legacy

[Brian]

On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 08:46:58 -0600, David Wright wrote:

> On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 01:14:48 (-0500), Felix Miata wrote:
> > Felix Miata composed on 2015-10-23 21:32 (UTC-0500):
> > ...
> > > Apparently lack of EXT4 support in grub-legacy on Debian is 
> > > multifaceted
> > 
> > Problem continues in current incarnation of Stretch.
> 
> Does bug #511121 not work for you? Or does its implementation
> contradict your original criterion ("In order to Keep It (multiboot)
> Stupidly Simple, most booting here is via Grub 0.97.x.").
> 
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GRUB_Legacy
> makes an oblique reference to ext4 without any comment, but that lack
> may be because the page is aimed at people *preserving* their legacy,
> not people making a new installation of Grub Legacy.
> 
> It's widely reported that there's no support of Grub Legacy from
> upstream, and no new features will be added.

It's good to have a reminder that Grub Legacy has been consigned to the
trashcan of unmaintained software.

  Please note that GRUB Legacy is in maintanance mode and new
  features are only accepted in GRUB 2 (grub-pc package).

in the package description eliminates any hope that Debian will pick up
the baton.

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 02 November 2015 14:34:49 Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2015-11-02 07:23:07 -0700, Charlie Kravetz wrote:
> > On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 08:00:59 -0600
> >
> > John Hasler  wrote:
> > >Jack Dangler wrote:
> > >> The next version of iceweasel i found in deb packages is 41 (quite a
> > >> jump), but says it is likely buggy (i'm guessing its in experimental).
> > >
> > >Unstable has 38.3.  Works fine.
> >
> > The stable release of Firefox is Version 41.0.2, released Oct 15.
>
> Stable, but not ESR.
>
> > Doesn't that make 38 old?
>
> No, 38 is still the latest ESR release.

I have 41.0.2 on Wheezy with 
deb http://mozilla.debian.net/ wheezy-backports iceweasel-release
in my sources list.

Lisi

Re: Bad interaction between multihead display amd desktops in debian squeeze

[moxalt]

On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 21:25:45 +0100, Mauro Condarelli  wrote:

> Hi,
> I am struggling to make work my new Debian Squezze installation on my
> workhorse. Problem is X setup and its interaction with desktops.
> 
> I have two VGAs:
> * intel embedded in my i7 CPU
> * external NVidia GTX770
> Each of them drives 2 monitors for a grand total of 4.
> 
> I managed to have partial victory in the sense:
> I can have dual monitor using *either* intel *or* nvidia
> or I can have all four, but then gnome crashes somehow ("Oh no! Something
> went wrong...") while X is ok. In the "working" cases xrandr dees only the
> two active monitors. I also installed Xfce which works happily with the same
> config where Gnome crashes, but shows only the nvidia monitors with mirroring
> and xrandr does not work at all.
> 
> I am now writing from Win7 (with all monitors correctly working!) and thus I
> have no access to actual files.
> 
> Can someone point me in the right direction, please?

Use at least Debian 8, for a start.

Re: Dnsmasq si rifiuta di partire al boot

[Pol Hallen]

mhmh... se fai:

cd /etc/init.d/
insserv dnsmasq?


Ciao,
sono su Kali GNU/Linux 2.0, dnsmasq è configurato come servizio che
starta al boot anche guardando rcconf e sysv-rc-conf, questo il warning:


:~# update-rc.d dnsmasq defaults insserv: warning: current start
runlevel(s) (empty) of script `dnsmasq' overrides LSB defaults (2 3
4 5). insserv: warning: current stop runlevel(s) (0 1 2 3 4 5 6) of
script `dnsmasq' overrides LSB defaults (0 1 6).


Ho anche rimosso (purge) e reinstallato dnsmasq con nessuna fortuna,
non capisco ! :)
Buona giornata ...

Gab
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--
Pol

Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?

[moxalt]

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 18:11:48 +, Lisi Reisz  wrote:

> On Saturday 31 October 2015 16:37:41 Richard Owlett wrote:
> > Lisi Reisz wrote:  
> > > On Saturday 31 October 2015 16:18:15 Mario Castelán Castro wrote:  
> > >> El 31/10/15 a las 10:05, Richard Owlett escribió:  
> > >>> Martin Read wrote:  
> >  On 31/10/15 12:02, Chris Bannister wrote:  
> > > Logically, doesn't it make more sense to make it so that you
> > > install
> > > with the minimum number of packages necessary, and then
> > > download any
> > > extra packages you want *after* the install?  
> > 
> >  Only if you accept austere minimalism as axiomatically good.  
> > >>>
> > >>> *YES* 
> > >>> That 'yes' would not have been so bold except Debian defaults go too
> > >>> far in the other direction. E.G. I just installed Squeeze to one
> > >>> machine be cause I like some Gnome2 features that Gnome3 zapped and I'm
> > >>> not sure exist in MATE (am investigating).
> > >>>
> > >>> Applications->Internet lists 8 applications, none of which are of
> > >>> interest and does not list the only internet application I need
> > >>> (SeaMonkey).
> > >>> System->Administration lists 10 applications, only 1 of which I use
> > >>> more than once a month (Synaptic) and doesn't list one I use almost
> > >>> daily (Gparted).
> > >>>
> > >>> I'm working on learning debootstrap and multistrap to have things
> > >>> suitably minimal and powerful simultaneously.  
> > >>
> > >> I have also noticed that Debian installs a lot of "extra" programs by
> > >> default. For example, when I installed LXDE using the latest (Debian 7)
> > >> LXDE CD and, I obtained LibreOffice, Iceweasel and Deluge (among many
> > >> others), none of which are part of LXDE, and of those, I only wanted
> > >> Icweasel installed since the beginning.
> > >>
> > >> If you want to control more precisely which packages get installed, you
> > >> can also install a text-only system and then add the additional packages
> > >> with the package manager. It won't give the same results and isn't as
> > >> flexible as Debootstrap or Multistrap, of course.  
> > >
> > > It isn't Debian that installs all those packages.  It's the DE. All
> > > anyone has to do to avoid them is not install a DE.  You are given the
> > > option.
> > >
> > > Lisi  
> >
> > But extraneous cruft is not intrinsic to using a DE.   
> 
> Yes, it is.  That is why it is called an environment.  That is what makes it 
> an environment.  Without cruft it is effectively a window manager.

Not necessarily. A desktop environment can be a rather minimal collection of
programs- a window manager, desktop background thingy, file manager, and panel
qualifies as a desktop environment. At the very least, a desktop environment is
just a window manager packaged with some other useful stuff. Xfce comes pretty
close to just being a window manager (xfwm), a desktop (xfdesktop) a panel
(xfpanel), and a file manager (thunar). A desktop environment doesn't need to
be packed full of cruft.

If by 'desktop environment' you are referring to the bloated RAM-eating
monstrosities known only as GNOME and KDE (especially KDE) then I take the
cruft point.

Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?

[moxalt]

On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 01:02:19 +1300, Chris Bannister 
wrote:

> Logically, doesn't it make more sense to make it so that you install
> with the minimum number of packages necessary, and then download any
> extra packages you want *after* the install?

Yes. In fact, even when I am installing desktop environments, I will use my
trusty netinstall CD anyway because I prefer doing the installation myself- I
feel insecure at the mercy of the installer, and prefer to just apt-get things
myself anyway. I'm a bit of a control freak that way.

I have a really shaky internet connection, and I would just hate it to die on
me halfway through an enormous (say, GNOME) installation and then have the
entire thing fail. Much better to deal with things afterwards. More control.

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Jack Dangler]

On Mon, 2015-11-02 at 07:23 -0700, Charlie Kravetz wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 08:00:59 -0600
> John Hasler  wrote:
> 
> >Jack Dangler wrote:
> >> The next version of iceweasel i found in deb packages is 41 (quite a
> >> jump), but says it is likely buggy (i'm guessing its in experimental).  
> >
> >Unstable has 38.3.  Works fine.
> 
> The stable release of Firefox is Version 41.0.2, released Oct 15.
> Doesn't that make 38 old?
> 
> 
I added unstable main to my apt sources as - 
'deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main'

apt-get update ran fine.

On asking to install the unastable iceweasel as - 
apt-get -t unstable install iceweasel

I get quite a large list of packages but did not notice iceweasel among
them.

Is there something I missed or should I allow the long list of packages
to install? (the list isn't here as it is fairly large but I can supply
it. Again, thanks for the input.

Regards

Jack

Re: Dnsmasq si rifiuta di partire al boot

[Pol Hallen]

wrong list... sorry for the mistake

On 11/02/2015 05:06 PM, Pol Hallen wrote:

mhmh... se fai:

cd /etc/init.d/
insserv dnsmasq?


Ciao,
sono su Kali GNU/Linux 2.0, dnsmasq è configurato come servizio che
starta al boot anche guardando rcconf e sysv-rc-conf, questo il warning:


:~# update-rc.d dnsmasq defaults insserv: warning: current start
runlevel(s) (empty) of script `dnsmasq' overrides LSB defaults (2 3
4 5). insserv: warning: current stop runlevel(s) (0 1 2 3 4 5 6) of
script `dnsmasq' overrides LSB defaults (0 1 6).


Ho anche rimosso (purge) e reinstallato dnsmasq con nessuna fortuna,
non capisco ! :)
Buona giornata ...

Gab
- --
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--
Pol

Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 02 November 2015 16:38:29 moxalt wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 01:02:19 +1300, Chris Bannister
> 
>
> wrote:
> > Logically, doesn't it make more sense to make it so that you install
> > with the minimum number of packages necessary, and then download any
> > extra packages you want *after* the install?
>
> Yes. In fact, even when I am installing desktop environments, I will use my
> trusty netinstall CD anyway because I prefer doing the installation myself-
> I feel insecure at the mercy of the installer, and prefer to just apt-get
> things myself anyway. I'm a bit of a control freak that way.
>
> I have a really shaky internet connection, and I would just hate it to die
> on me halfway through an enormous (say, GNOME) installation and then have
> the entire thing fail. Much better to deal with things afterwards. More
> control.

Yes, of course.  But you are not a newbie.  I'm all in favour of this being 
possible.  Minimal and then it is up to you.

Lisi

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Brian]

On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 11:42:50 -0500, Jack Dangler wrote:

> On Mon, 2015-11-02 at 07:23 -0700, Charlie Kravetz wrote:
> > On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 08:00:59 -0600
> > John Hasler  wrote:
> > 
> > >Jack Dangler wrote:
> > >> The next version of iceweasel i found in deb packages is 41 (quite a
> > >> jump), but says it is likely buggy (i'm guessing its in experimental).  
> > >
> > >Unstable has 38.3.  Works fine.
> > 
> > The stable release of Firefox is Version 41.0.2, released Oct 15.
> > Doesn't that make 38 old?
> > 
> > 
> I added unstable main to my apt sources as - 
> 'deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main'
> 
> apt-get update ran fine.
> 
> On asking to install the unastable iceweasel as - 
> apt-get -t unstable install iceweasel
> 
> I get quite a large list of packages but did not notice iceweasel among
> them.

Iceweasel is effectively the same in stable and unstable.

> Is there something I missed or should I allow the long list of packages
> to install? (the list isn't here as it is fairly large but I can supply
> it. Again, thanks for the input.

Allow? You've allowed your bank to dictate how you use your computer, so
why not? But no, don't allow. Abandon this installation and seek another
route to get to your money.

Re: installing/using grub-legacy

[Felix Miata]

David Wright composed on 2015-11-02 08:46 (UTC-0600):

> On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 01:14:48 (-0500), Felix Miata wrote:

>> Felix Miata composed on 2015-10-23 21:32 (UTC-0500):
>> ...
>> > Apparently lack of EXT4 support in grub-legacy on Debian is 
>> > multifaceted

>> Problem continues in current incarnation of Stretch.

> Does bug #511121 not work for you? Or does its implementation
> contradict your original criterion ("In order to Keep It (multiboot)
> Stupidly Simple, most booting here is via Grub 0.97.x.").

I can't answer this. I don't build or patch binaries.

But I can say that the 0.97 versions included in Gentoo, Mageia 5 and
openSUSE Leap and Tumbleweed releases do work as expected, maybe because of
the Launchpad patch https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=511121
mentions. Since it dropped Grub Legacy, I choose to install no bootloader on
Fedora installations, and configure them using openSUSE 13.1's grub-0.97-194.
On new disks I partition in advance using Knoppix and run grub setup on a
primary partition using Knoppix's Grub Legacy.

My Wheezy, Jessie and Stretch installations have Grub2 purged, grub-legacy
installed, and grub-legacy setup run by booting openSUSE 13.1 and running its
0.97-194. But the grub-legacy shell on them is broken.

> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GRUB_Legacy
> makes an oblique reference to ext4 without any comment, but that lack
> may be because the page is aimed at people *preserving* their legacy,
> not people making a new installation of Grub Legacy.

> It's widely reported that there's no support of Grub Legacy from
> upstream, and no new features will be added.

Maybe for this context that is a question of what "new" means. Gentoo's,
Mageia's and openSUSE's 0.97 versions have supported EXT4 since long before
Grub2 graduated from Beta (reached v2.0).

It would be nice if people didn't have to remember to not execute commands in
Debian's grub-legacy shell that cause it to hang as a result of it attempting
to read during its search processes the EXT4 filesystems on which other
distros live. It's not sufficient to avoid hanging Debian's grub-legacy shell
to install Debian to EXT3 instead of EXT4.
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?

[John L. Ries]

And if you're installing X, then it's reasonable for Synaptic and other 
GUI admin tools to be part of the default setup.  Those who prefer lower 
level tools and who know enough for that to be a good decision will know 
how to uninstall what they don't want or need and should have the 
privilege of doing so (unnecessary dependencies are bad).


--|
John L. Ries  |
Salford Systems   |
Phone: (619)543-8880 x107 |
or (435)867-8885  |
--|


On Mon, 2 Nov 2015, Rick Thomas wrote:



On Nov 2, 2015, at 12:45 AM, Joe  wrote:


To be honest, I see no reason at all why two package managers needed
to be included in standard install. If you aren't happy with apt-get,
just apt-get install aptitude. It seems beyond question to me that
having bare minimum to start with and adding things you need from
there is a much cleaner and better way of doing things than having
several tools with the same function and having to get rid of one. So
a very sensible change, I only wonder what was the thinking behind
the initial approach.


Not in the base system, no, but I'd expect it to be included in any
system which might be used by newcomers to Linux. A lot of Internet
sites include installation instructions using aptitude, without
mentioning any alternatives, or even that there are any. Similarly, a
desktop system other than a minimalist one should include Synaptic.

--
Joe


+1 for Joe.

Requiring a newcomer to install aptitude before she can follow the simple 
step-by-step instructions she downloaded from the web — or alternatively 
requiring all the helpful folks who posted those step-by-step instructions to 
go back and modify them…  That’s not what I’d call “newbie friendly”.

Rick

Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?

[Brian]

On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 15:01:16 +, Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Monday 02 November 2015 12:15:51 Brian wrote:
> >  And not all of us are fully
> >
> > > able-bodied.  You would appear to be able to read well and fast.  Not all
> > > of us are that fortunate.
> >
> > I do not see the relevance of this to reading the Debian documentation
> > accompanying a release. Unless it is thought to be an optional extra. :)
> 
> I can't, as in can't, read all the documentation.  So I try to pick out the 
> headings that obviously really matter, am never an early adopter, and try to 
> pay close attention to what other people say.  As I say, you are lucky.
> 
> And before you say "Of course you could, if you wanted to", I can't climb 
> Mount Everest either.  Not even if I wanted to.
> 
> Others are worse off than I am.  No it is not an optional extra.  But some of 
> us have to do without all the same.

What are you appealing to here? d-i no longer installs aptitude; reasons
have been given. This fact may or may not eventually appear in the
release notes; reading them is no more onerous than reading some random
web page.

Your argument appears to be based on the state of a person's eyesight.
It also makes assertions about the state of mine. This is out of line;
you have no knowledge about the state of my sight (and never will).

Please refrain from framing aruments in terms of preconceptions or
agendas,

Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?

[Mario Castelán Castro]

El 02/11/15 a las 10:38, moxalt escribió:

On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 01:02:19 +1300, Chris Bannister 
wrote:


Logically, doesn't it make more sense to make it so that you install
with the minimum number of packages necessary, and then download any
extra packages you want *after* the install?


Yes. In fact, even when I am installing desktop environments, I will use my
trusty netinstall CD anyway because I prefer doing the installation myself- I
feel insecure at the mercy of the installer, and prefer to just apt-get things
myself anyway. I'm a bit of a control freak that way.

I have a really shaky internet connection, and I would just hate it to die on
me halfway through an enormous (say, GNOME) installation and then have the
entire thing fail. Much better to deal with things afterwards. More control.


You can use a non-netinstall CD or DVD to install a text-only 
environment, then boot and then complete the installation with a package 
manager. You may either limit yourself to the packages within the CD or 
DVD or add an online repository.


You can also boot a optical disk image from GRUB. I recommend this to 
avoid wasting an optical disk.

Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?

[Mario Castelán Castro]

El 31/10/15 a las 16:55, Lisi Reisz escribió:

You said "All anyone has to do to avoid them is not install a DE. You
are given the option.". That is right; I never claimed otherwise
(furthermore, I alluded to this fact when I mentioned installing a
text-only environment and then add additional packages), but your
assertion that Debian does not install all those package does not follow
(it is a non-sequitur).


Yes, I wasn't referring particularly to you, but to the general trend of the
thread.  Sorry that I didn't make that clear.


I see. It's fine. I thought you were specifically addressing what I 
said, hence that I elaborated on an argument to support it.

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2015-11-02 15:00:19 +, Brian wrote:
> On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 14:58:24 +0100, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> 
> > On 2015-11-02 13:47:41 +, Brian wrote:
> > > On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 14:17:39 +0100, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > > > The user's browser cannot compromise the site itself. But a security
> > > > bug may permit an attacker to get the user's login and password, and
> > > > neither the bank nor the user would like this.
> > > 
> > > Would this obtaining of the password be before or after encryption
> > > takes place?
> > 
> > With an XSS[*] vulnerability, before.
> > 
> > [*] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-site_scripting
> 
> Quoting from that page:
> 
>   XSS enables attackers to inject client-side script into web pages
>   viewed by other users.
> 
> The bank's site would be compromised. It wouldn't matter what user-agent
> string was sent by the user.

No, the injection happens locally (after the web page is fetched),
in the user's browser, not remotely.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 02 November 2015 19:58:51 Brian wrote:
> Your argument appears to be based on the state of a person's eyesight.
> It also makes assertions about the state of mine. This is out of line;
> you have no knowledge about the state of my sight (and never will).

I said "would appear".  I was very careful in my choice of words.  I have a 
blind friend who can "read" at a phenomenal speed.  

It is out of line to be as judgemental as you are of others.  What you can do 
easily everyone else must do, or be dismissed, and no allowances must be 
made.  We are not all the same.  You have abilities which some others do not 
have.

You said "The helpful folks at Debian also produce copious documentation (a 
Guide, Release Notes etc).At release time these tend to be up to date and are
much more useful to newcomers" as a reason why aptitude should not be 
included.  I pointed out that these are not useful to everyone.  In fact, to 
some of us they are barely useful at all.

Lisi

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Brian]

On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 23:02:38 +0100, Vincent Lefevre wrote:

> On 2015-11-02 15:00:19 +, Brian wrote:
> > On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 14:58:24 +0100, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > 
> > > On 2015-11-02 13:47:41 +, Brian wrote:
> > > > On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 14:17:39 +0100, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > > > > The user's browser cannot compromise the site itself. But a security
> > > > > bug may permit an attacker to get the user's login and password, and
> > > > > neither the bank nor the user would like this.
> > > > 
> > > > Would this obtaining of the password be before or after encryption
> > > > takes place?
> > > 
> > > With an XSS[*] vulnerability, before.
> > > 
> > > [*] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-site_scripting
> > 
> > Quoting from that page:
> > 
> >   XSS enables attackers to inject client-side script into web pages
> >   viewed by other users.
> > 
> > The bank's site would be compromised. It wouldn't matter what user-agent
> > string was sent by the user.
> 
> No, the injection happens locally (after the web page is fetched),
> in the user's browser, not remotely.

An attacker must inject a payload into a web page that the user visits.
When the page loads in the user’s browser the attacker’s payload will
be executed. A user would likely have no knowledge of this, irrespective
of whatever browser or user-agent string is being used.

Without the payload (which the bank's site has delivered) the security
of the browser is not compromised. If a password were to be obtained the
bank is complicit in the action. I expect they would take responsibilty
for this.

Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?

[Brian]

On Mon 02 Nov 2015 at 22:15:10 +, Lisi Reisz wrote:

> On Monday 02 November 2015 19:58:51 Brian wrote:
> > Your argument appears to be based on the state of a person's eyesight.
> > It also makes assertions about the state of mine. This is out of line;
> > you have no knowledge about the state of my sight (and never will).
> 
> I said "would appear".  I was very careful in my choice of words.  I have a 
> blind friend who can "read" at a phenomenal speed.  

The form of words doesn't matter. It is out of place and unhelpful to
comment on the physical capabilities of a participant on a list of this
nature, especially as a way of countering a argument. To repeat: you
have no knowledge of how easy or hard I find reading a computer screen
to be or the speed I do it with. "would appear" are weasel words to
cover this lack of knowledge.

> It is out of line to be as judgemental as you are of others.  What you can do 
> easily everyone else must do, or be dismissed, and no allowances must be 
> made.  We are not all the same.  You have abilities which some others do not 
> have.

I can wiggle both my ears at the same time. :)

> You said "The helpful folks at Debian also produce copious documentation (a 
> Guide, Release Notes etc).At release time these tend to be up to date and are
> much more useful to newcomers" as a reason why aptitude should not be 
> included.  I pointed out that these are not useful to everyone.  In fact, to 
> some of us they are barely useful at all.

What is written has been written. Others can judge it in the context of
the mail it replied to.

Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 02 November 2015 23:33:19 Brian wrote:
> The form of words doesn't matter. It is out of place and unhelpful to
> comment on the physical capabilities of a participant on a list of this
> nature, especially as a way of countering a argument. To repeat: you
> have no knowledge of how easy or hard I find reading a computer screen
> to be or the speed I do it with. "would appear" are weasel words to
> cover this lack of knowledge.

If you did not criticise others for not being able to do everything you can 
do, then your capabilities or lack of them would be irrelevant.

Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 02 November 2015 23:33:19 Brian wrote:
> I can wiggle both my ears at the same time. :)

I didn't notice that.  Now that _is_ an accomplishment. :-)

Lisi

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2015-11-02 22:53:03 +, Brian wrote:
> An attacker must inject a payload into a web page that the user visits.
> When the page loads in the user’s browser the attacker’s payload will
> be executed. A user would likely have no knowledge of this, irrespective
> of whatever browser or user-agent string is being used.
> 
> Without the payload (which the bank's site has delivered) the security
> of the browser is not compromised. If a password were to be obtained the
> bank is complicit in the action. I expect they would take responsibilty
> for this.

If the attack is due to a vulnerability in the user's browser and
this browser is blocked by the bank because it is old and no longer
maintained (thus may have known, unfixed vulnerabilities), the user
would be fully responsible. Actually it is the responsibility of
the user to update his software, but bypassing the bank's security
mechanisms makes him even more responsible.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Setting up Network for Xen

[ray]

I would like to get the network functioning again.  This is a laptop with 
jessie.  The laptop does not have a Ethernet port.  It is connected to a 
Dynadock USB 3.0.  Ifconfig shows the Ethernet port to be usb0.  This system 
has been working.  I updated it to configure the network for Xen.  Immediately 
after, I no longer had Internet access.  The Xen update resulted in the 
following configuration:

/etc/network/interface

# This file describes the network interfaces available on your system
# and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5).
source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*
# The loopback network interface
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback
face usb0 inet manual
auto xenbr0
iface xenbr0 inet dhcp
bridge_ports usb0

I tried this with eth0 instead of usb0 but no change.

After this update, the browser reports 'Server not found'.

Running the following:

# ifup -a --force

produced: 

Waiting for xenbr0 to get ready (MAXWAIT is 32 seconds).
Internet Systems Consortium DHCP Client 4.3.1
Copyright 2004-2014 Internet Systems Consortium.
All rights reserved.
For info, please visit https://www.isc.org/software/dhcp/

Listening on LPF/xenbr0/00:50:b6:c4:3d:42
Sending on   LPF/xenbr0/00:50:b6:c4:3d:42
Sending on   Socket/fallback
DHCPDISCOVER on xenbr0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 8
DHCPDISCOVER on xenbr0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 12
DHCPDISCOVER on xenbr0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 14
DHCPDISCOVER on xenbr0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 21
DHCPDISCOVER on xenbr0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 6
No DHCPOFFERS received.
No working leases in persistent database - sleeping.

When the 'interface' config was run with eth0, the above output said 'eth0 does 
not exist'.

I had previously installed network-manager to  get the network to run.  So I 
have tried the above steps with both
manage=false
manage=true
There was no difference in the system response.  

I would appreciate any suggestions.

Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?

[Chris Bannister]

On Mon, Nov 02, 2015 at 08:45:27AM +, Joe wrote:
> Not in the base system, no, but I'd expect it to be included in any
> system which might be used by newcomers to Linux.

If a newcomer can't figure out apt-get install, then they'd probably be
better off with Ubuntu or Linux Mint.

Intelligent Googling will get you the answers to most things. :)

AFAIR, Debian has never been intended to be a distro for complete 
newcomers, so trying to get a hammer to bang in a screw can have
unfortunate consequences, which I propose is not to redesign the screw
to act more like a nail!

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X

Installing mSATA Solid State Drive in Dell Precision M3800

[ken]

I'm considering getting a Dell Precision M3800 Mobile Workstation, would 
want to install my own mSATA SSD in it.  Does anyone here have one of 
these machines?  If so, is an SSD a user-installable component?  And if 
so again, how much needs to be taken apart?


Thanks much.

Re: Anybody know why aptitude is not installed by default in Sid?

[Chris Bannister]

[Please don't top post on the debian-user mailing list.]

On Mon, Nov 02, 2015 at 12:34:49PM -0700, John L. Ries wrote:
> And if you're installing X, then it's reasonable for Synaptic and other GUI
> admin tools to be part of the default setup.  

I use fvwm, I definitely don't want Synaptic and other GUI admin tools
to be installed when I install X. Now, if by X, you actually mean a
desktop, then sure, there could be a gui-admin-tools meta package which
is pulled in by the desktop meta package. At least, that way, people who
know what they are doing don't have to clean up the mess, they didn't
want in the first place.

> Those who prefer lower level
> tools and who know enough for that to be a good decision will know how to
> uninstall 

Sorry, that seems illogical to me. The reason I actually use Debian, is
so that I don't have to jump through hoops after an install.

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X

About Hypra project

[MENGUAL Jean-Philippe]

Hi,

At DebConf 15 I had introduced the Hypra project to Mario and during a 
lightning Talk. I had talked about our main dev work: Universally 
Accessible System. Now we have a translated website, I think it's nice 
to show you:

http://hypra.fr/?-Home-17-&lang=en

Because we will work with Debian, contribute to Debian and try improving 
its a11y in long-term. It is for instance a reason for us do package 
Compiz for Debian.


Regards,

--

Jean-Philippe MENGUAL

HYPRA, progressons ensemble

Tél.: 01 84 73 06 61
Mail:cont...@hypra.fr

Site Web:http://hypra.fr

Re: where does unstable appear from?

[Chris Bannister]

On Mon, Nov 02, 2015 at 01:46:35PM +0200, Alex Moonshine wrote:
> On 11/02/2015 12:58 PM, Andrey Rybak wrote:
> >thanks for your answer.
> >its very strange for me that it is not possible to use filezilla in
> >testing. i was using testing brunch in several years and filezilla was
> >presenting in there. am i right? is it ok if i will change "testing" to
> >"stratch"?
> >
> No, testing and stretch is currently the same thing. Changing to unstable
> would let you install filezilla (I would actually recommend using sid over
> testing). It's actually very common that package fall in and out of testing,
> there's absolutely nothing strange about that. Packages get removed because
> of bugs, new versions take time to be pushed down from unstable. You were
> just lucky with filezilla, I guess.
> 
> Alternatively, adding it to your sources.list and installing it with
> "apt-get -t unstable install filezilla", then removing it from sources.list
> or giving it low priority in /etc/apt/preferences will do the trick (consult
> this: https://wiki.debian.org/AptPreferences).
> 
> Be careful, both of those actions that I suggested, performed without full
> awareness of what you are doing  might break your system pretty badly.

You mean your suggestion to install Sid? I agree. Suggesting that
someone run sid just so that they can have the latest package, is IMHO,
very cruel.

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Chris Bannister]

On Mon, Nov 02, 2015 at 07:19:46AM -0500, Jack Dangler wrote:
> Got a msg this morning from online bank service that my browser
> (iceweasel) is no longer up to date (equates to ff31) and wants to
> 'either update your browser to a compatible version or install one of
> the following - [list of usual suspects].

Change banks, that's crap. 

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X

Re: Setting up Network for Xen

[Reco]

Hi.

On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 19:19:53 -0800 (PST)
ray  wrote:

> I would like to get the network functioning again.  This is a laptop with 
> jessie.  The laptop does not have a Ethernet port.  It is connected to a 
> Dynadock USB 3.0.  Ifconfig shows the Ethernet port to be usb0.  This system 
> has been working.  I updated it to configure the network for Xen.  
> Immediately after, I no longer had Internet access.  The Xen update resulted 
> in the following configuration:
> 
> /etc/network/interface
> 
> # This file describes the network interfaces available on your system
> # and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5).
> source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*
> # The loopback network interface
> auto lo
> iface lo inet loopback
> face usb0 inet manual
> auto xenbr0
> iface xenbr0 inet dhcp
> bridge_ports usb0

Your /etc/network/interfaces does not try to bring usb0 up, so not
working xenbr0 is to be expected. You need something like this instead:

auto lo
iface lo inet loopback
allow-hotplug usb0
iface usb0 inet manual
auto xenbr0
iface xenbr0 inet dhcp
bridge_ports usb0

Oh, and remove network-manager while you're at it. It can only
complicate things, not simplify them.

Reco

Re: Iceweasel updates

[Chris Bannister]

On Mon, Nov 02, 2015 at 04:13:44PM +0200, Alex Moonshine wrote:
> 
> 
> On 11/02/2015 03:22 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> >But some videos are not supported with official precompiled Firefox
> >versions due to obsolete gstreamer:
> >https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=947287
> 
> Oh, right. I use gstreamer from http://www.deb-multimedia.org/
> Yes, I know I just said using 3-rd party repos are bothersome :)
> Deb-multimedia is somewhat of an exception, I've been using it for a long
> time (since squeeze, I think).

JFTR, http://www.deb-multimedia.org/ nerfed my system, I spend a
good couple of hours fixing it. The maintainer of
http://www.deb-multimedia.org/ doesn't play nice, e.g. the package
versions are deliberately made higher than the official Debian ones.

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X

Re: Installing mSATA Solid State Drive in Dell Precision M3800

[David Christensen]

On 11/02/2015 07:49 PM, ken wrote:

I'm considering getting a Dell Precision M3800 Mobile Workstation, would
want to install my own mSATA SSD in it.  Does anyone here have one of
these machines?  If so, is an SSD a user-installable component?  And if
so again, how much needs to be taken apart?


Download the service manual from Dell.  It should provide instructions 
for replacing the drive(s) -- HDD/ SSD, "mobility", etc..  It's nice to 
pick a model that you can get to the drive(s) by removing some screws 
and sliding a carrier out, rather than having to take off the bottom 
cover, etc..


David