re:How to get hardware info

[abdelkader belahcene]

Thank you for answer

lspci gives
03:00.0 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5751
Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express (rev 01)
don't not the name of module
lshw is not installed, is it an alone package or belongs to a more complete one.
thanks
bela


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Re: Sound problem on Lenny PPC: can't find /dev/dsp

[Florian Kulzer]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 17:47:15 +1030, J.T. Chittleborough wrote:
> Hey, all.
>
> The sound abruptly stopped working on a Lenny KDE installation on my  
> PowerBook G4 12"; I dual-boot with Mac OS X, which it's still working  
> fine with. I'm running a stock Lenny PowerPC kernel, and can't find  
> anything in the APT logs about software changes which might have  
> affected this.
>
> At startup, pbbuttonsd complains that it can't find /dev/mixer, and aRts 
> complains it can't find /dev/dsp (in both cases, ls -l can't find them 
> either). Similarly, "amixer info" says it is unable to find any devices. 
> Nothing in KInfoCenter, lspci or Apple's System Profiler seems to give 
> any information on any sound hardware.
>
> I've tried a dpkg-reconfigure of aRts, reinstalling the arts and  
> libasound2 packages, and installing alsa-tools, without success.
>
> Does anyone have any other ideas?

Try (as root):

modprobe snd_pcm_oss

If that works then you can add snd_pcm_oss to /etc/modules to make sure
that it is loaded at every boot.

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  Florian   |


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Re: Movies, household network and 54g limits... (maybe...)

[johnny]

> Because... I did some more testing...

- Ok, thanks Peter for your observations. I gotta do other tests too
(I'm gonna think about yours).
- yeah, your architecture doesn't add but is pro ;)
- Only one doubt: in a wireless network, if the router and the nics
are N except one G card, I'd expect the last one drag all back (my
usual idea about CSMA/CD signal-caching collisions: MAC level
saturation), am I right?
- I will try to write to the authors of my papers.
Thanks.


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Re: [OT] Re: Burn CD

[Jochen Schulz]

(I was unsure whether to reply privately or on the list. But since there
 is apparently more than one reader who is objecting to my posting style
 in this thread, I am going to explain it once publicly and would prefer
 to take the discussion off-list soon.)

Sjoerd Hiemstra:
> Jochen Schulz:
>> Ron Johnson:
>>> Am I the only one who's noticed that Schilling's mail/news reader
>>> doesn't thread?
>> 
>> No, and that's the way he prefers to take part in mailing lists.
> 
> Am I the only one who dislikes this kind of gossip?

Sorry, it was not my intention to be mean. I am just trying to find a
shortcut through that inevitable debate. I have seen it several times
now and I know many of the complaints, accusations and side issues like
the one about threading. I agree that my previous mail sounded harsh,
but it really is the only conclusion to draw from earlier threads.

> The real reasons behind the situation remain unclear. I would suggest to
> try both cdrecord and wodim, and see which one you like best.

That's of course fine, but it doesn't help in understanding what lead to
wodim's existence in the first place. Not that everyone necessarily
needs to know them, but if you want to know why there's no cdrecord
anymore in Debian, that's the answer.

J.
-- 
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[Agree]   [Disagree]
 


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Re: How to get hardware info

[Tobias Nissen]

Hi abdelkader!

abdelkader belahcene wrote:
> lspci gives
> 03:00.0 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5751
> Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express (rev 01)
> don't not the name of module
> lshw is not installed, is it an alone package or belongs to a more
> complete one. thanks

`aptitude search lshw` already gives the answer. The binary "lshw"
is in the package "lshw"  and you can install it with `aptitude install
lshw`.

With kind regards,
Tobias


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Re: Extended partition resized during installation

[Ulrich Schweitzer]

On Tuesday 08 January 2008 17:32:01 Ulrich Schweitzer wrote:

> I recently installed Debian Etch and it seems the installer resized my
> extended partition to fit the size of the logical volumes without asking
> me about it.

There are no replies, so nobody seems to know anything about this. 
Maybe it is the default behaviour of the partitioning tool used during 
installation. Can anybody tell me what its name is so I can investigate 
futher?

Thanks in advance
Ulrich
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Tel. 0711/685-62156

PGP key ID: 0xDF6FC4FA

old-style ipw3945 module on latest kernel?

[Anthony Campbell]

I know the latest kernel on sid (2.6.23-1) is supposed to use
firmware-iwlwifi because support for Intel Wireless 3945 is built into
the kernel. This doesn't work on my Thinkpad Z61M so I have to use the
older ipw-3945 modules. These don't exist for the latest kernel so I'm
confined to the earlier ones.

Is there any way to use the older non-free module on the latest kernel?

Anthony


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http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, 
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Re: old-style ipw3945 module on latest kernel?

[Александър Л . Димитров]

Hello Anthony,

Quoth Anthony Campbell:
> I know the latest kernel on sid (2.6.23-1) is supposed to use
> firmware-iwlwifi because support for Intel Wireless 3945 is built into
> the kernel. This doesn't work on my Thinkpad Z61M so I have to use the
> older ipw-3945 modules. These don't exist for the latest kernel so I'm
> confined to the earlier ones.
> 
> Is there any way to use the older non-free module on the latest kernel?

I remember having successfully compiled ipw3945 against a debian kernel a year
ago - kernel was .17 or .18, I think. You have to have the kernel headers and
then you can just use the standard procedure for compiling it yourself -
shouldn't be too hard, it's a matter of ./configure && make install once you
have the headers in place. The new kernel shouldn't pose any obstacles, though I
only tried it with my own kernel, and not with the official one.

BTW, what do you mean by 'support is built into the kernel'? Is it the vanilla
kernel or just the Debian patched one? AFAIK, kernel-devs have not yet put iwl* 
into any kernel version since upstream does not consider the driver to be ready
for day-to-day use (or are my informations outdated?). Only the mac80211 and
cfg80211 bits are in the kernel - which are fairly generic. sid-repos do have
the iwl-firmware, however.

Aleks


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Re: [OT]FF beta2: not so good...

[Александър Л . Димитров]

Hello Hugo,

Quoth Hugo Vanwoerkom:
> Hi,
>
> With FF beta2 my use of FF instead of Iceweasel ends.

You may want to try beta3 then.

> Beta2 is a major pain: it dies while trying to use backspace on the URL  
> bar and can't submit the crash report. Then going back to beta1 my  
> bookmarks toolbar got wiped out + no fiddling would restore it.

Well, that's it with betas - YMMV. For me, it has been _incredibly_ stable -
much more so than Opera's Kestrel. And it's really lighter and faster compared
to FF2. Only minimally heavier than Opera. With browsers, it's just the same as
with MUAs: All {browsers,MUAs,OSs} suck. This one just sucks less.

> Using Iceweasel everything is back to normal and I got Java back again.

Well, when this is what you want, I guess it's fine, isn't it? :-)

> Was fun while it lasted and they sure warn you that those beta's are for  
> testing only.

I'm using a lot of betas on my system - kernel is often rc-something (or even mm
if I want to try something specific), and my WM is directly from the upstream
repository (XMonad - sid still hasn't bumped the version to 0.5, a shame,
considering the fact that 0.5 is a lot better than 0.4 and carries major
improvements). And everything is rock-solid - even under heavy load (which
occurs, every now and then).

Aleks


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Re: Extended partition resized during installation

[Osamu Aoki]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 10:58:35AM +0100, Ulrich Schweitzer wrote:
> On Tuesday 08 January 2008 17:32:01 Ulrich Schweitzer wrote:
> 
> > I recently installed Debian Etch and it seems the installer resized my
> > extended partition to fit the size of the logical volumes without asking
> > me about it.
> 
> There are no replies, so nobody seems to know anything about this. 
> Maybe it is the default behaviour of the partitioning tool used during 
> installation. Can anybody tell me what its name is so I can investigate 
> futher?

I do not know the answer but it should be one of the udeb package for
installer.

You should ask [EMAIL PROTECTED] where to find tutorial for
hacking d-i.

http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller

Good luck.

Osamu


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Re: new user question: debian on a Thinkpad T61

[Chris Bannister]

On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 04:51:21PM -0500, Jimmy Wu wrote:
> am not a big gamer.  The only reason I would have Windows is because
> there might be unforeseeable circumstances when I may run into Windows
> only software.  I am sure if I needed to, I could always shrink by
> Debian partition later and install XP, right?

As far as I know, M$ doesn't play friendly with other OS's. XP will want
all the HD. You are best to install XP, then Debian. There may be ways
around it but I'm guessing they would be very unpleasant.

It would be like trying to reason with a selfish unsharing child. :-(

-- 
Chris.
==


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Daer sir

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[Haider Kalel]

 
PRINCE _company
   
   
   For construction , supplying , & general contracting  
and trade 
   
  Email :haider.kalel.yahoo.com
  Mobile Number: 7901861030 sub /information letter
  we'd like to declare that we intend to cooperate with you to submit our 
experience due to the technical staff we have consist of engineers and 
businessmen and contractors and technicians having practice work and high 
efficiency in the following fields :
  all participants of the company present their best regards to you and they 
would like to inform you the scope of work for the company :
  1.casting many building , roads offices in Iraq
  2.supply cement , sand , dirt.
  3.supply televisions , computers , air conditioners, telephone, cabinets.
  4.supply many medical equipments.
  5.supply electrical materials
  6.supply water materials
  7.our company did many businesses of reconstruction and installation.
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Re: [OT] Re: Burn CD

[Chris Bannister]

On Sun, Jan 13, 2008 at 04:56:09PM -0600, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> * Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008 Jan 13 14:58 -0600]:
> 
> >> This is a waste of time.
> >
> > Am I the only one who's noticed that Schilling's mail/news reader  
> > doesn't thread?
> 
> Mutt has been keeping his posts in the thread here.

You are not seeing an "*" in the thread indicators?

-- 
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==


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Re: old-style ipw3945 module on latest kernel?

[Anthony Campbell]

On 14 Jan 2008, Александър Л. Димитров wrote:
> Hello Anthony,
> 
> Quoth Anthony Campbell:
> > I know the latest kernel on sid (2.6.23-1) is supposed to use
> > firmware-iwlwifi because support for Intel Wireless 3945 is built into
> > the kernel. This doesn't work on my Thinkpad Z61M so I have to use the
> > older ipw-3945 modules. These don't exist for the latest kernel so I'm
> > confined to the earlier ones.
> > 
> > Is there any way to use the older non-free module on the latest kernel?
> 
> I remember having successfully compiled ipw3945 against a debian kernel a year
> ago - kernel was .17 or .18, I think. You have to have the kernel headers and
> then you can just use the standard procedure for compiling it yourself -
> shouldn't be too hard, it's a matter of ./configure && make install once you
> have the headers in place. The new kernel shouldn't pose any obstacles, 
> though I
> only tried it with my own kernel, and not with the official one.
> 
> BTW, what do you mean by 'support is built into the kernel'? Is it the vanilla
> kernel or just the Debian patched one? AFAIK, kernel-devs have not yet put 
> iwl* 
> into any kernel version since upstream does not consider the driver to be 
> ready
> for day-to-day use (or are my informations outdated?). Only the mac80211 and
> cfg80211 bits are in the kernel - which are fairly generic. sid-repos do have
> the iwl-firmware, however.
> 
> Aleks


I take it you mean compile ipw3945-source, from the Sid repository -- or
from Sourceforge?

When I say it's in the kernel, I meant the Debian patched one. I was
going by some info from Google, which I think came from this list
originally. Someone said they couldn't find ipw3945-modules for a 2.6.23
kernel and they were told to use firmware-iwlwifi instead, which worked
for them. Not for me, however.

Anthony

-- 
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Microsoft-free zone - Using Linux Gnu-Debian
http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, 
on-line books and sceptical articles)


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Re: playing a midi

[Justin Piszcz]

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Justin & others,

jp> # apt-get install -y mozplugger timidity

Oops.  Neither of these was installed until now.
A goofy blunder.  iceweasel now lists mozplugger
as responsible for the MID File Type and a midi
stream produces sound automatically.

Nice!


Have you found a software volume control which
works when iceweasel is operating?  The sound
control panel in xfce4 has many switches but
no volume control evident.

I use aumix, apt-get install -y aumix.



jp> TIM_ALSASEQ=true

Wasn't necessary to get sound from iceweasel.

jp> TIM_ALSASEQPARAMS="-Os"

Was already activated in the default installation,
with a few additional parameters.

Nice.



VLC still doesn't recognize midi.  Must be a
problem with VLC configuration.

I primarily use mplayer here, something to try if you haven't.


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Re: find the blocksize of a FS

[Martin Marcher]

Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 01/13/08 06:37, Martin Marcher wrote:
>> On Saturday 12 January 2008 23:38 Jan C. Nordholz wrote:
>> hmm looks like a starting point, I'm trying to get to that info with
>> python, if all else fails I think the python ctypes module should be able
>> to get that info thru the C interface.
> 
> Well heck, that's easy.
> 
> http://docs.python.org/lib/module-statvfs.html
> http://docs.python.org/lib/os-file-dir.html#l2h-2700
> 
> $ python
> Python 2.4.4 (#2, Jan  3 2008, 13:36:28)
> [GCC 4.2.3 20071123 (prerelease) (Debian 4.2.2-4)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>  >>> import statvfs
>  >>> import os
>  >>> os.statvfs('/')[statvfs.F_BSIZE]
> 4096
>  >>> os.statvfs('/')[statvfs.F_FRSIZE]
> 4096

I _really_ hate python for that. I was in the same situation with
shmutil.rmtree which I found after I finished writing my own function for
that.

I think I'm gonna get an ebook that reads the python lib to me every
night :)

martin

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Re: [OT]FF beta2: not so good...

[Hugo Vanwoerkom]

Александър Л. Димитров wrote:

Hello Hugo,

Quoth Hugo Vanwoerkom:

Hi,

With FF beta2 my use of FF instead of Iceweasel ends.


You may want to try beta3 then.





I could. Part of the problem is my setup: I have HOME on a separate 
partition, so beta's can mess up a working setup.


Hugo


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Re: Extended partition resized during installation

[Ulrich Schweitzer]

On Monday 14 January 2008 12:09:30 Osamu Aoki wrote:

> I do not know the answer but it should be one of the udeb package for
> installer.
>
> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller

Thank you very much. 
This page led me to another page which told me that the Debian installer 
uses parted for partitioning hard disks. I installed parted and it seems to 
allows resizing of partitions so I now have the means to recreate my 
previous layout. I still don't know why the Debian installer would shrink 
the partitions in the first place but I guess it doesn't matter.

Ulrich
-- 
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Tel. 0711/685-62156

PGP key ID: 0xDF6FC4FA

Re: find the blocksize of a FS

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 01/14/08 06:55, Martin Marcher wrote:
> Ron Johnson wrote:
>> On 01/13/08 06:37, Martin Marcher wrote:
>>> On Saturday 12 January 2008 23:38 Jan C. Nordholz wrote:
>>> hmm looks like a starting point, I'm trying to get to that info with
>>> python, if all else fails I think the python ctypes module should be able
>>> to get that info thru the C interface.
>> Well heck, that's easy.
>>
>> http://docs.python.org/lib/module-statvfs.html
>> http://docs.python.org/lib/os-file-dir.html#l2h-2700
>>
>> $ python
>> Python 2.4.4 (#2, Jan  3 2008, 13:36:28)
>> [GCC 4.2.3 20071123 (prerelease) (Debian 4.2.2-4)] on linux2
>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>  >>> import statvfs
>>  >>> import os
>>  >>> os.statvfs('/')[statvfs.F_BSIZE]
>> 4096
>>  >>> os.statvfs('/')[statvfs.F_FRSIZE]
>> 4096
> 
> I _really_ hate python for that. I was in the same situation with
> shmutil.rmtree which I found after I finished writing my own function for
> that.
> 
> I think I'm gonna get an ebook that reads the python lib to me every
> night :)

Google is your friend.

http://www.google.com/search?q=python+filesystem+blocksize

The 2nd and 3rd entries tell you what you need to know.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

"I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian
because I hate vegetables!"
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

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cd9EUaWr9f0ejmLVHPQL8u8=
=nWnK
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Getting older debian packages

[Sebastian Bauer]

Hello,

Some days ago, I updated the libc package to version 2.7. The system is a
virtual server (i386). Since I've performed the updating the system is broken.
As I figured out by browsing through the web the server uses a kernel which
conflicts with the newer glibc packages. Now, because I can't upgrade the
kernel I would like to replace the glibc package of version 2.7 with an older
one (2.6). However, unfortunately the /var/cache/apt/archives directory does
only contain the most recent packages. I've alredy looked though the web but
haven't found any place where I can download older testing packages. So my
question is, is there a place, where I can download older packages such as the
mentioned version 2.6 of glibc?

Thanks in advance!

Ciao,
Sebastian




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Re: Getting older debian packages

[steef]

Sebastian Bauer wrote:

Hello,

Some days ago, I updated the libc package to version 2.7. The system is a
virtual server (i386). Since I've performed the updating the system is broken.
As I figured out by browsing through the web the server uses a kernel which
conflicts with the newer glibc packages. Now, because I can't upgrade the
kernel I would like to replace the glibc package of version 2.7 with an older
one (2.6). However, unfortunately the /var/cache/apt/archives directory does
only contain the most recent packages. I've alredy looked though the web but
haven't found any place where I can download older testing packages. So my
question is, is there a place, where I can download older packages such as the
mentioned version 2.6 of glibc?

Thanks in advance!

Ciao,
Sebastian




  

maybe this is what you are looling for (tar.gz_formaat):

http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/glibc/

reg.,

steef

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Re: Getting older debian packages

[Chris Howie]

On Jan 14, 2008 8:17 AM, Sebastian Bauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Some days ago, I updated the libc package to version 2.7. The system is a
> virtual server (i386). Since I've performed the updating the system is
> broken.
> As I figured out by browsing through the web the server uses a kernel
> which
> conflicts with the newer glibc packages. Now, because I can't upgrade the
> kernel I would like to replace the glibc package of version 2.7 with an
> older
> one (2.6). However, unfortunately the /var/cache/apt/archives directory
> does
> only contain the most recent packages. I've alredy looked though the web
> but
> haven't found any place where I can download older testing packages. So my
> question is, is there a place, where I can download older packages such as
> the
> mentioned version 2.6 of glibc? <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>

http://snapshot.debian.net/package/glibc

-- 
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http://www.chrishowie.com
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Re: Getting older debian packages

[Sebastian Bauer]

Hi!

steef <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:
> maybe this is what you are looling for (tar.gz_formaat):
> http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/glibc/

Thanks for the link. But these seem to be source files. Because the system is
totally broken, I doubt that I can compile it. Is there a place, where binary
packages can be downloaded from?

Ciao,
Sebastian




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Re: Getting older debian packages

[Florian Kulzer]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 14:17:44 +0100, Sebastian Bauer wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Some days ago, I updated the libc package to version 2.7. The system is a
> virtual server (i386). Since I've performed the updating the system is broken.
> As I figured out by browsing through the web the server uses a kernel which
> conflicts with the newer glibc packages. Now, because I can't upgrade the
> kernel I would like to replace the glibc package of version 2.7 with an older
> one (2.6). However, unfortunately the /var/cache/apt/archives directory does
> only contain the most recent packages. I've alredy looked though the web but
> haven't found any place where I can download older testing packages. So my
> question is, is there a place, where I can download older packages such as the
> mentioned version 2.6 of glibc?

http://snapshot.debian.net/archive/2007/10/19/debian/pool/main/g/glibc/

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Re: lynx configuration

[Thomas Dickey]

hce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I've just installed lynx. I am a vim user and I like to use vim key
> map on lynx and use the same terminal background color (black) in lynx
> (lynx uses gray background by default) when I start the lynx.

It's set in the lynx.lss file (see the comment at the top of that file).

-- 
Thomas E. Dickey
http://invisible-island.net
ftp://invisible-island.net


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Re: Getting older debian packages

[Sebastian Bauer]

Hi!

Florian Kulzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 14:17:44 +0100, Sebastian Bauer wrote:
> > haven't found any place where I can download older testing packages. So
> > my
> > question is, is there a place, where I can download older packages such as
> > the
> > mentioned version 2.6 of glibc?
> http://snapshot.debian.net/archive/2007/10/19/debian/pool/main/g/glibc/

This seems to be the right one! Great thanks! 

Ciao,
Sebastian



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Re: flock, fcntl, lockf?

[Michael Shuler]

On 01/14/2008 09:34 AM, Hendrik Boom wrote:

What's the right way these days to lock a file (or possibly a part of a
file) to prevent damage from simultaneous writing?


I suppose the answer could be, "depends on what you want to do.."  I 
think that flock() does not work on NFS mounts, if that is any 
consideration.


--
Kind Regards,
Michael Shuler


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flock, fcntl, lockf?

[Hendrik Boom]

What's the right way these days to lock a file (or possibly a part of a
file) to prevent damage from simultaneous writing?

-- hendrik


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Re: NetworkManager and XFCE for wireless support

[Douglas A. Tutty]

Don't top post and keep replies to the list.  I've reorganized your
post.
On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 10:19:51AM -0300, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> --- "Douglas A. Tutty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escreveu:
> > On Sun, Jan 13, 2008 at 07:13:35PM -0800, Eduardo B. V. Pereira wrote:
> > > I would like to know if there is any NetworkManager frontend to the
> > > XFCE environment. Or if there is any software that I could use
> > > instead.
> > 
> > Just use the standard debian networking setup.  What did you want
> > NetworkManager to do?
> > 
> I need him to manage my wireless connections. I've installed the Wi-fi Radar, 
> but it doesn't
> support some kinds of encryption. I also checked out the WiCD, but some of 
> its dependencies where
> outside of packages for the stable realease and didn't know if there could be 
> any problem in
> installing those.

I've never dealt with wireless.  However, how could a package from
stable have dependancies outside of stable?  If you mix and match you
get a mess unless you really know what you're doing.  In that case, you
would probably be running Sid anyway.  

Hopefully, someone who knows about wireless can help.

Doug.


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Re: How to get hardware info

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 08:33:25AM +0100, abdelkader belahcene wrote:
> I want to know the name of my network card, it is detected by the
> system, I just want name of the driver used and other info?
> 
> Is there a program which gives the info of hardware? ( included network card)
> thanks bela

dmesg


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Re: capacitor plague; was Re: Debian on IBM NetVista Type 6578-RAU

[Andrew Sackville-West]

On Sun, Jan 13, 2008 at 09:33:01PM -0500, KS wrote:
> Henry Luciano wrote:
> > 
> > *sigh*, multiple times.  The hardest thing is removing the old caps and
> > desoldering the holes, but all in all it's not that bad.  Keep the iron
> > hot enough to melt the solder but not hot enough to damage the trace. 
> > Practicing on an old board first would be a good idea of course.
> > 
> 
> I used a solder suction pump along with the soldering gun. As soon as
> the solder melted it was sucked up by the pump. Helps a lot if you
> already have lots of experience using the equipment :-)
> 
> You also have to make sure that when you solder the new caps, you can't
> use too much solder as there isn't much space around.
> 
> > FYI, you don't need to match the voltage of the caps, just the
> > capacitance and diameter.  Cf. http://www.capacitorlab.com/basic/index.htm
> > 
> 
> I got the caps after listing their ratings from the original caps
> themselves from http://www.badcaps.net/ They package took about 10-12
> days to arrive though.

I'm inspired. I've got a really nice video card sitting on my bench
with a bulged cap. I've been thinking I might try replacing that cap,
but haven't got around to it yet. Triple-head here I come!!

A


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Re: A problem with package dependences

[Rodolfo Medina]

On Sun, Jan 13, 2008 at 03:54:11PM +0100, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

>> I want to install the auctex package, and Etch won't do it before installing
>> the emacs21 and related packages:
>> 
>> emacs21 emacs21-bin-common emacs21-common emacsen-common gs-common gs-gpl
>> gsfonts preview-latex-style
>> 
>> .  Now, my problem is that I already installed a cvs version of Emacs, so I
>> don't want the standard one to be installed.
>> 
>> Is there a solution to this matter?



"Douglas A. Tutty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> There is a solution, although I've never added non-debian versions of
> anything.  I think I've seen the answer on the list before.  You make an
> equivs package that contains nothing but it does satisfy the
> dependancies of anything depending on whatever (e.g. emacs).
>
> You then install this equiv package with dpkg and you're good to go.


Thanks.  I tried equivs.  The idea is brilliant but the result may be
dangerous.  In this case, for example, using equivs allows to install auctex
avoiding installing first emacs21, emacs21-bin-common, emacs21-common and
emacsen-common; but then when you install auctex with apt-get you find out
(but too late) that emacsen-common was necessary.  So the system breaks down.
Then, after installing Emacs from source, I'm going to install auctex from
source as well, it's safer.

Bye
Rodolfo


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Re: NetworkManager and XFCE

[Peter Smerdon]

"Eduardo B. V. Pereira" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Hi, I would like to know if there is any NetworkManager frontend to
> the XFCE environment. Or if there is any software that I could use
> instead.
>
> Thanks in advance.

You need to install the xfce4-xfapplet-plugin:

Description: Gnome applets plugin for Xfce panel XfApplet is a plugin
 for the Xfce 4 panel. The plugin itself has no special functionality,
 its only purpose is to enable one to use Gnome applets inside the Xfce
 4 panel just as they are used inside the Gnome panel.

Once done, add that to your panel and let it run network manager applet.

-- 
peter.


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Re: [OT] top posting

[Michael Marsh]

On Jan 14, 2008 11:21 AM, Ebanutiy Ebanatik Ebanatovich
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sorry for offtopic but I'm wondering if the cause of avoiding of top
> posting is in something technical (e.g. to help forum software to
> create weekly digests correctly) or is it a question of etiquette?

The 5100 hits from
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Alists.debian.org+%22top+posting%22&btnG=Search&lr=
should answer your question.

-- 
Michael A. Marsh
http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~mmarsh
http://mamarsh.blogspot.com
http://36pints.blogspot.com


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No volume in my Etch box!

[Rodolfo Medina]

On my laptop I installed x-window-system-core and gnome-core and the volume
control small icon top right on Gnome desktop looks all right.  Instead, on my
desktop PC the same icon is not active, and when I left-click it the following
message appears:

---
The volume control did not find any elements and/or devices to control. This 
means either that you don't have the right GStreamer plugins installed, or that 
you don't have a sound card configured.

You can remove the volume control from the panel by right-clicking the speaker 
icon on the panel and selecting "Remove From Panel" from the menu.
---


.  When I right-click, the following message appears:


---
Failed to start Volume Control: Failed to execute child process 
"gnome-volume-control" (No such file or directory)
---


.  Do you think that the sound card is not recognized by Etch?  I hope not.
Does anyone please have any suggestion?  I don't know what to do.

Thanks
Rodolfo


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[OT] top posting

[Ebanutiy Ebanatik Ebanatovich]

Sorry for offtopic but I'm wondering if the cause of avoiding of top
posting is in something technical (e.g. to help forum software to
create weekly digests correctly) or is it a question of etiquette?
Thanks


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Re: ifconfig don't list interfaces

[Andrew Sackville-West]

> 2008/1/13, Osamu Aoki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

Osamu gave a suggestion about how to get more useable output by
changing the language to english. This would make it easier for this
list to help.

He(she?) also asked a couple of relevant questions that could point to
a solution to the problem

On Sun, Jan 13, 2008 at 07:23:15PM +0100, Paul Csanyi wrote:

> 
> I removed /etc/udev/rules.d/z25_persistent-net.rules and rebooted
> the system, but not help.

which is not what was asked abuot this file at all

and


> 
> I reinstall the system.
> 

which means that 1) we have no way of knowing what caused the problem
and how to possibly resolve it properly and prevent it from happening
in the future; and 2) the time of the person who tried to help, and
those of us who read the thread has been completely wasted. 

If you are going to ask for help, please don't just run off and
reinstall at the first sign of trouble. 

A


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Re: [OT]FF beta2: not so good...

[Kelly Clowers]

On Jan 14, 2008 4:40 AM, Hugo Vanwoerkom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Александър Л. Димитров wrote:
> > Hello Hugo,
> >
> > Quoth Hugo Vanwoerkom:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> With FF beta2 my use of FF instead of Iceweasel ends.
> >
> > You may want to try beta3 then.
> >
>
> 
>
> I could. Part of the problem is my setup: I have HOME on a separate
> partition, so beta's can mess up a working setup.

I don't understand. I use the Mozilla nightlies as my main browser,
and my /home is on a separate partition. I have no trouble using
Iceape or Iceweasel when I want to.


Cheers,
Kelly Clowers

Re: [OT] top posting

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 01/14/08 10:21, Ebanutiy Ebanatik Ebanatovich wrote:
> Sorry for offtopic but I'm wondering if the cause of avoiding of top
> posting is in something technical (e.g. to help forum software to
> create weekly digests correctly) or is it a question of etiquette?

Rationality, because while some cultures read left->right, and
others read right->left, all read top->bottom.  None read bottom->top.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

"I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian
because I hate vegetables!"
unknown
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFHi461S9HxQb37XmcRAnH2AJ93YsG62XHJBZ2uuKOKSVY4vQLBSgCfbKiQ
dp0eLQolOwZmM5dEvhZ4oWA=
=loz5
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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named server question

[chloe K]

Hi all

What is the rescurive client?

where can I add it in the bind named.conf or named.conf.option in debian?

thank you

   
-
Instant message from any web browser! Try the new  Yahoo! Canada Messenger for 
the Web BETA

Re: links in icedove/thunderbird stopped working

[Joe]

Reid Priedhorsky wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:40:11 +0100, Kent West wrote:


Ron Johnson wrote:

On 01/12/08 00:18, Reid Priedhorsky wrote:

I run testing - I read email in icedove/thunderbird and browse the web
with iceweasel/firefox. Lately (past few days) links have stopped 
working

in icedove. Before, I'd click a web link and the page would come up in
firefox. Now, nothing. I haven't changed any preferences recently.

Anyone else have this problem?


Kent and Ron,

Thanks for your help. It turns out that it's a known bug, though it
doesn't seem to have been noticed in testing before? Also perplexing is
the fact that icedove hasn't been upgraded since October 27, but this
problem appeared in the last few days.

Anyway, the workaround from Ryder Dain in this bug report fixed the
problem:

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=425790



It's also in Sid, on icedove 2.0.0.9-3, and the fixes in that bug report 
don't work. I've added a note to the report.



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Re: flock, fcntl, lockf?

[Ken Irving]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 03:34:27PM +, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> What's the right way these days to lock a file (or possibly a part of a
> file) to prevent damage from simultaneous writing?

My impression is that file locking is based on all participants following
the same convention, whatever it is, so the right way would be whatever
other programs that might be operating on the same files are doing.

-- 
Ken Irving, [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: .bash_profile and .bashrc not executing

[Bob McGowan]

John Salmon wrote:

Martin Marcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: 


On Saturday 12 January 2008 20:50 John Salmon wrote:


I'm a new user to Debian Linux. I have the latest version loaded on a
dedicated PC with all the default settings. I have added a ~/bin
directory to my system. My .bash_profile and .bashrc files were the
default files loaded during the install. However, my PATH remains
unchanged when I log on even though the .bash_profile file has the
lines to add my ~/bin directory. I can make the change manually after
I've logged on and can execute files that are in that directory.
Also, the aliases set in my .bashrc file don't work. As a check, I've
set environment variables in both files and they return null with
echo after logging on. I haven't tried re-installing the system from
scratch. 


Any suggestions?

you did re-login after the changes did you? (i think "bash -l" also
behaves like a full re-llogin)

hth
martin



Yes, I did. In fact, I also tried re-booting the system.

Another thing, I tried to run ~/.bash_profile and got "\bash: 
/home/johns/.bash_profile: Permission denied" (johns is me). ls -al shows 
.bash_prfile access has no execute permission set.




John,

I recently posted a rather long description of how the shell deals with 
files, whether executable (binary or scripts) or "sourced".


Bottom line, if the shell knows the name of the file and that the file 
is a script, it needs then to be able to read it.


You did not post the ls -l output, so I can't say if permissions might 
be the issue or not.  The first field of ls -l should be at least a dash 
followed by the letter 'r', followed by either a dash or 'w', etc.


You also didn't say whether you're login is from the GUI (xdm, kdm, gdm) 
or from a console in text mode.


If you logged in using the GUI, you should switch to a console and do a 
text mode login to see if you get any error messages from the shell. 
Or, from a shell window after the GUI login, you can use 'bash -l' at 
the command prompt, as suggested above, to start a new shell that acts 
like a login shell.


If any errors are reported, that is the likely cause of your problem, 
since the shell will abort processing the startup files when an error is 
found.


--
Bob McGowan


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Re: ifconfig don't list interfaces

[César]

try use software 'lshw', may be if you see more detail information
about the hardware you can fixed the software error

bye
___
http://www.sindominio.net/ayuda/preguntas-inteligentes.html
http://cronopios.net/Traducciones/trolls.es.html

Mi blog:
http://cesarediaz.blogspot.com

:-{þ

ip forwarding; was Re: /etc/resolv.conf, /etc/ppp/resolv.conf, dhcp3-server and dnsmasq

[peasthope]

Doug & others,

dat> DNS and IP forwarding are two separate issues. 

OK; with ipmasq installed, a Debian client  
communicates through the router system just as if 
directly connected.  One more small problem 
solved.  Thanks.

dat> You need to enable IP forwarding as well 
as: see /etc/sysctl.conf.

Prior to installing ipmasq, there was no forwarding
even with net.ipv4.conf.default.forwarding=1 .

ipmasq continues to work just as well with 
net.ipv4.conf.default.forwarding commented out;
which I assume is equivalent to 
net.ipv4.conf.default.forwarding=0 .  (Ever 
wish that configuration texts were less ambiguous?)

The Windows 98 client system is not so cooperative.
If it is connected to the Debian router with the 
crossover cable which works for the Debian client, 
the link lights are on but no communication 
is evident.  This is the pertinent stanza from 
/etc/network/interfaces in the router.

# Interface to LAN 192.168.8.0.  
iface eth3 inet static
address   192.168.8.1
netmask   255.255.255.0
up  route add   -host all-ones dev eth3
downroute delete-host all-ones dev eth3

A hub and two patch cables produce the same 
result as the crossover cable.

Any tips on how to get a Windows client connected?

Thanks,  ... Peter E.




Desktops.OpenDoc  http://carnot.yi.org/


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Re: segmentation fault but why?

[Florian Kulzer]

On Sat, Jan 12, 2008 at 13:39:12 -0500, chris dunn wrote:
> Running scanimage -L as root (su) yields the correct answer and identifies my 
> scanner.
> 
> Running scanimage -L as user yields "Segmentation fault" only.
> 
> Does anyone have a suggestion as to why this might be, and how I can identify 
> the reason for the problem?

Install the "strace" package if you do not have it already.

Run as the normal user:

strace -f scanimage -L 2>scanimage.strace

Then you can check the end of the file scanimage.strace for clues. If
you cannot make sense of it then you can send the output of

tail -n50 scanimage.strace

to this list. (Please do NOT post the entire strace file!)

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  Florian   |


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Re: packages broken

[Florian Kulzer]

On Sun, Jan 13, 2008 at 17:51:29 -0500, Zach wrote:
> Florian wrote:

[...]

> >I saw that you filed a bug report (#460532). There seem to be two
> >related older reports (#406709, #396439). In one case the submitter
> >states in a follow-up that a corrupted .desktop file was to blame, but
> >the general problem still seems unresolved to me. (Even if you also have
> >a corrupt data file, the tool should deal more gracefully with such a
> >situation.)
> 
> I checked in my normal user account's $HOME and in root's $HOME and
> there is no ~/.desktop file. Could that be the problem? I run Gnome.

I think that bug submitter meant files ending in ".desktop", e.g.
/usr/share/applications/services.desktop. There are many such files on
your system (see the output you posted in your own bug report).

> >I have two more suggestions for you to improve the chances of this
> >bug getting fixed:
> >
> >1) Just to be sure, check if there are any other stray libraries in
> >   /usr/local/lib. Run "ldconfig -pNX | grep /local/" as a normal user.
> >   If this comes up empty then your system is OK in that respect.
> 
> It found some:
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ /sbin/ldconfig -pNX | grep /local/
>   libXm.so.2 (libc6) => /usr/local/lib/libXm.so.2
>   libXm.so (libc6) => /usr/local/lib/libXm.so
>   libUil.so.2 (libc6) => /usr/local/lib/libUil.so.2
>   libUil.so (libc6) => /usr/local/lib/libUil.so
>   libMrm.so.2 (libc6) => /usr/local/lib/libMrm.so.2
>   libMrm.so (libc6) => /usr/local/lib/libMrm.so

You seem to have a non-Debian version of lesstif2 on your system. Where
does it come from?

>   libDtPrint.so.1 (libc6) => /usr/local/lib/libDtPrint.so.1
>   libDtPrint.so (libc6) => /usr/local/lib/libDtPrint.so

I have no idea what those last two files are. I cannot find
libDtPrint.so anywhere in Debian. (I searched Sarge - Sid.)

> What should I do about this?

Find out if the libraries in /usr/local/lib/ are known to dpkg at all.
You can search like this:

dpkg -S /usr/local/lib

I would get rid of these files and whatever package put them there (if
any). You can install the Debian lesstif2 package if necessary. Then you
can run "ldconfig" (without any arguments) as root and see if the bug is
gone afterwards.

I don't think that update-desktop-database is influenced by the lesstif2
libraries, therefore I am not too optimistic about your chances of
success. However, outdated libraries in /usr/local/lib/ are always a
potential source of bugs and furthermore a security risk, so I would get
rid of them unless you have a compelling reason to keep them.

[...]

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how to change /media/disk to /media/usbdisk

[Bernard Fay]

Hello,

I use Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon with Gnome.

When I insert a USB stick it is automatically mounted on /media/disk. I need
to have it mounted as /media/usbdisk. How can I change this behavior?
As far as I know gnome-volume-manager is responsible to mount it but I can't
find a relation to /media/disk.

Thanks in advance for your help,
Bernard

-- 
Bernard

Re: playing a midi

[joseph lockhart]

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Folk,
> 
> timidity is installed.  Yet when iceweasel opens
> http://www.contemplator.com/ and when VLC opens 
> a local midi file, there is silence.
> 
> Is there a way for VLC to recognize and play a 
> midi?
> 
> How should iceweasel play a midi?  iceweasel>
> Edit>Preferences>Content>File Types>Manage has 
> buttons for Remove Action and for Change Action
> but nothing for Add Action.
> 
> Should I be using another midi package?
> 
> Thanks,  ... Peter E.
> 
try running

apt-cache search midi | more 

in a terminal screen

kmid, midge, and playmidi seem like good choices

jwlockhart

Registered Linux User #458799
Registered Kubuntu User #19678
this user is penguin powered


  

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Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  
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[solved?] No volume in my Etch box!

[Rodolfo Medina]

Rodolfo Medina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On my laptop I installed x-window-system-core and gnome-core and the volume
> control small icon top right on Gnome desktop looks all right.  Instead, on
> my desktop PC the same icon is not active, and when I left-click it the
> following message appears:
>
> -
> The volume control did not find any elements and/or devices to control. This
> means either that you don't have the right GStreamer plugins installed, or
> that you don't have a sound card configured.
>
> You can remove the volume control from the panel by right-clicking the
> speaker icon on the panel and selecting "Remove From Panel" from the menu.
> -
>
>
> .  When I right-click, the following message appears:
>
>
> -
> Failed to start Volume Control: Failed to execute child process
> "gnome-volume-control" (No such file or directory)
> -
>
>
> .  Do you think that the sound card is not recognized by Etch?  I hope not.
> Does anyone please have any suggestion?  I don't know what to do.



The problem disappeared since I installed the gnome-media package.  But on my
laptop this package is not installed and the problem does not exist.  One more
strange thing is that even with this problem, without installing gnome-media,
the volume is heared fine!  But you can't control it, of course.

Rodolfo


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Re: No volume in my Etch box!

[Max Hyre]

Rodolfo Medina wrote:

.  When I right-click, the following message appears:
---
Failed to start Volume Control: Failed to execute child process 
"gnome-volume-control" (No such file or directory)
---



[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ dpkg -S gnome-volume-control
[...]
gnome-media: /usr/bin/gnome-volume-control
[...]

   Does /usr/bin/gnome-volume-control exist?

   If not, check whether the gnome-media package is 
installed (I expect it should have been sucked in with  the 
whole Gnome conglomerate).  If it isn't, either install ork 
reinstall it (apt-get install --reinstall gnome-media).


   If so, there may be a problem with the PATH setting, or 
some other part of the how-to-find-an-executable process.  I 
can't help you there, but ry reinstalling gnome-media on GP. 
 It can't hurt...


--

Best wishes,

Max Hyre


Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is an 
absurd one.

-- Voltaire


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Re: How to get hardware info

[joseph lockhart]

--- abdelkader belahcene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi,
> I want to know the name of my network card, it is
> detected by the
> system, I just want name of the driver used and
> other info?
> 
> Is there a program which gives the info of hardware?
> ( included network card)
> thanks bela
> 
hardinfo 

jwlockhart

Registered Linux User #458799
Registered Kubuntu User #19678
this user is penguin powered


  

Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


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Corrupted Gnome terminal ( reposted from debian-amd64)

[Jack Schneider]

Hi, all

I screwed up my Gnome Terminal setup some how... on my workstation
desktop.

My system:
Debian "Lenny"
Kernel: 2.6.22-3-amd64
Video:  Nvidia 8600 GT
Video Drv. NVIDIA 169.07

My Problems:
Gnome terminal has unreadable fonts..TOO small. The terminal will not
close, when clicking on X, and cntrl++ will not work. 

Xterm seems to work. OK  /var/log/Xorg.0.log has one failure:
(EE) Failed to load module "type1" (module does not exist, 0)

I created a new user, and the Gnome terminal on that Desktop works
normally..OK  So it seems I have a hidden file screwed up on my
desktop...

Anyone have a idea what folder i should replace???  or what/where I
should look or go from here???  I have been struggling for several days
and come up blank from Archive and Google.

Thanks, in advance..
Jack 




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Re: My favorite radio stations

[Peter Smerdon]

"Jamiil Abduqadir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On my windows xp I listen to this radio stations, but for some reason,
> debian, laterst and stable version, does not play any music whe I log ing
> using iceweasel or any of the other browser included in debian. Can any one
> pls, tell if there is something else I need to install to have my favorite
> radio stations on the net working under debian?
> http://www.am740.ca/
> http://www.studio92.com/musica/audioenvivo/
> http://www.1010wins.com/pages/272297.php

I *think* you might need some non-free codecs to play these sites, am740
works fine for me, I have installed flashplugin-nonfree, w32codecs among
others, try those first, assuming they are available for stable (I am
using sid)
 
-- 

Peter.


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Transparent proxy - forwarding does not work

[Eduardo M KALINOWSKI]

   I'm trying to setup a transparent caching proxy with Squid. I've 
installed Squid, configured it, in particular using the line

http_port 3128 transparent

   The proxy is working fine. If I specify the proxy manually, I can 
see it being used from access.log, and note the results of caching.


   However, the automatic forwarding is not working. First, I've 
enabled forwarding with

echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward

   Then, following instructions found in the internet, I've run
iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p tcp --dport 80 -j REDIRECT 
--to-port 3128
to setup automatic forwarding of http requests. The command runs fine, 
and the rule is added:

# iptables -t nat -L
Chain PREROUTING (policy ACCEPT)
target prot opt source   destination
REDIRECT   tcp  --  anywhere anywheretcp dpt:www 
redir ports 3128


Chain POSTROUTING (policy ACCEPT)
target prot opt source   destination

Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT)
target prot opt source   destination

   However, the forwarding simply does not happen. Requests do not pass 
through the proxy, everything works as before.


   Is there anything that is missing?

   Kernel is linux-image-2.6.22-2-amd64, version 2.6.22-4 . Now I'm 
using squid3 version 3.0.STABLE1-1, but I've also tried with squid 
2.6.17-1, and the results are the same.


Thanks in advance,

--
History repeats itself.  That's one thing wrong with history.

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://move.to/hpkb


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Re: how to change /media/disk to /media/usbdisk

[Bernard Fay]

Thanks Brian for your reply,

But my next question now is :  Right click in what?

Bernard

On Jan 14, 2008 1:57 PM, Brian McKee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
> On 14-Jan-08, at 12:56 PM, Bernard Fay wrote:
> > When I insert a USB stick it is automatically mounted on /media/
> > disk. I need to have it mounted as /media/usbdisk. How can I change
> > this behavior?
> > As far as I know gnome-volume-manager is responsible to mount it
> > but I can't find a relation to /media/disk.
>
> Right click - Properties - poke around in there...  If you change the
> name of the device it should remount it as that name.
> Sorry I don't have an Ubuntu box in front of me at the second but
> hopefully that's enough to get you going.
>
> Brian
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin)
> Comment: Verify this email or encrypt your email for free - see gnupg.org
>
> iD8DBQFHi7CnGnOmb9xIQHQRAm33AKDLpw3bHTsSSCDVB9V1d8dcPzocMACfS87U
> qb9bHaUsL5V3cOsEaRXjSas=
> =2meg
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>



-- 
Bernard Fay

Il est bien agréable d'être important, mais il plus important d'être
agréable.

Re: My favorite radio stations

[Peter Smerdon]

Peter Smerdon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> "Jamiil Abduqadir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> On my windows xp I listen to this radio stations, but for some reason,
>> debian, laterst and stable version, does not play any music whe I log ing
>> using iceweasel or any of the other browser included in debian. Can any one
>> pls, tell if there is something else I need to install to have my favorite
>> radio stations on the net working under debian?
>> http://www.am740.ca/
>> http://www.studio92.com/musica/audioenvivo/
>> http://www.1010wins.com/pages/272297.php
>
> I *think* you might need some non-free codecs to play these sites, am740
> works fine for me, I have installed flashplugin-nonfree, w32codecs among
> others, try those first, assuming they are available for stable (I am
> using sid)

I forgot mozilla-mplayer might be needed also.

-- 

Peter.


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My favorite radio stations

[Jamiil Abduqadir]

On my windows xp I listen to this radio stations, but for some reason,
debian, laterst and stable version, does not play any music whe I log ing
using iceweasel or any of the other browser included in debian. Can any one
pls, tell if there is something else I need to install to have my favorite
radio stations on the net working under debian?
http://www.am740.ca/
http://www.studio92.com/musica/audioenvivo/
http://www.1010wins.com/pages/272297.php
-- 
Happiness has many doors, and when one of them closes another opens, yet we
spent so much time looking at the one that is shut that we don't  see the
one that just  opened.

Re: Movies, household network and 54g limits... (maybe...)

[Peter Teunissen]

On 14-jan-2008, at 10:33, johnny wrote:


- Only one doubt: in a wireless network, if the router and the nics
are N except one G card, I'd expect the last one drag all back (my
usual idea about CSMA/CD signal-caching collisions: MAC level
saturation), am I right?

That's right. I'm by no means a network expert, but every wireless  
bridge/router manual will tell you that they are backwards  
compatible, but at the price of speed. When one of the 802.11g  
devices is active on my network, speed goes down somewhat.


Little test:

Copying a 1GB file from lan server to laptop en back over 802.11n b/g  
compatibility mode, 2.4ghz., **only n-devices active** and using  
netatalk I get allmost 10MB/S average throughput


Copying a 1GB file from lan server to laptop en back over 802.11n in  
b/g compatibility mode, 2.4ghz., **with one other g-device active**  
and using netatalk I get about 7MB/S average throughput.


That's less than pure n, but still much better than a g-only network.  
So the network doesn't completely switch to g-mode. If it has to do  
with MAC level saturation I really don't know.



Peter







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Re: My favorite radio stations

[César]

if you don't listen any music or radio in your Debian check this software:

dpkg -l|grep alsa

if have not any software list install 'alsa-base'

apt-get install alsa-base

then as root execute from console this

alsaconf

I can listen your list radio
http://www.am740.ca/ -> optimized for Explorer and Windows Media 9
http://www.studio92.com/musica/audioenvivo/ -> OK, I listen
http://www.1010wins.com/pages/272297.php -> OK, I listen

bye

___
http://www.sindominio.net/ayuda/preguntas-inteligentes.html
http://cronopios.net/Traducciones/trolls.es.html

Mi blog:
http://cesarediaz.blogspot.com

:-{þ

Re: new user question: debian on a Thinkpad T61

[Mike Bird]

On Mon January 14 2008 03:47:32 Chris Bannister wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 04:51:21PM -0500, Jimmy Wu wrote:
> > am not a big gamer.  The only reason I would have Windows is because
> > there might be unforeseeable circumstances when I may run into Windows
> > only software.  I am sure if I needed to, I could always shrink by
> > Debian partition later and install XP, right?
>
> As far as I know, M$ doesn't play friendly with other OS's. XP will want
> all the HD. You are best to install XP, then Debian. There may be ways
> around it but I'm guessing they would be very unpleasant.

Lenny installer had no problem shrinking the Vista partition and
setting up grub dual boot - actually triple boot on the T61 if you
keep the diag partition (recommended).

--Mike Bird


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Re: [OT] top posting

[Dotan Cohen]

On 14/01/2008, Ebanutiy Ebanatik Ebanatovich
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sorry for offtopic but I'm wondering if the cause of avoiding of top
> posting is in something technical (e.g. to help forum software to
> create weekly digests correctly) or is it a question of etiquette?
> Thanks
>

You should read this:
http://what-is-what.com/what_is/top_posting.html

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

Re: [OT] top posting

[Alex Samad]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 10:32:53AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 01/14/08 10:21, Ebanutiy Ebanatik Ebanatovich wrote:
> > Sorry for offtopic but I'm wondering if the cause of avoiding of top
> > posting is in something technical (e.g. to help forum software to
> > create weekly digests correctly) or is it a question of etiquette?
> 
> Rationality, because while some cultures read left->right, and
> others read right->left, all read top->bottom.  None read bottom->top.
[flame on]
but we do read chronologically (in date order) and I for one hate having to go 
3 pages down to read the answer to the previous email (in a threaded news 
reader!).

Although I do admit that if you start in the last email of a thread it easier 
to read top to bottom 

[flame off]

> 
> - --
> Ron Johnson, Jr.
> Jefferson LA  USA
> 
> "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian
> because I hate vegetables!"
> unknown
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iD8DBQFHi461S9HxQb37XmcRAnH2AJ93YsG62XHJBZ2uuKOKSVY4vQLBSgCfbKiQ
> dp0eLQolOwZmM5dEvhZ4oWA=
> =loz5
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> 
> 
> -- 
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> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 

-- 
"We have enough coal to last for 250 years, yet coal also prevents an 
environmental challenge."

- George W. Bush
04/20/2005
Washington, DC


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Re: Trusted computing [WAS new user question: debian on a Thinkpad T61]

[David Brodbeck]

On Jan 13, 2008, at 1:47 PM, Hal Finney wrote:

I am actively involved with
some open-source TPM projects and see this technology as having
tremendous potential. It pains me to see so much uninformed FUD being
cast about whenever the topic comes up.


We're a twitchy bunch, aren't we?

I remember when Intel started shipping processors with unique ID  
numbers.  There was much weeping and gnashing of teeth as open-source  
proponents and privacy advocates declared that this would lead to the  
end of civilization as we know it.  In reality, it was a huge non- 
event; no software I know of uses it, and every system I've ever seen  
has shipped with the processor ID disabled.  Even companies that make  
corporate software, who tend to be more into copy protection than  
most, seem to have mostly ignored it and stuck with using MAC  
addresses or external dongles as identifiers.



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Re: [OT] top posting

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 01/14/08 15:57, Alex Samad wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 10:32:53AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 01/14/08 10:21, Ebanutiy Ebanatik Ebanatovich wrote:
>>> Sorry for offtopic but I'm wondering if the cause of avoiding of top
>>> posting is in something technical (e.g. to help forum software to
>>> create weekly digests correctly) or is it a question of etiquette?
> Rationality, because while some cultures read left->right, and
> others read right->left, all read top->bottom.  None read bottom->top.
>> [flame on]
>> but we do read chronologically (in date order) and I for one hate having to 
>> go 

Thanks for making my point, since when does time "move" from bottom
to top?

>> 3 pages down to read the answer to the previous email (in a threaded news 
>> reader!).
>  
>> Although I do admit that if you start in the last email of a thread it 
>> easier 
>> to read top to bottom 
> 
>> [flame off]

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

"I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian
because I hate vegetables!"
unknown
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

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Qim4g+dBfGnqQm97FdXLyGo=
=+5xv
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: [OT] top posting

[David]

Alex Samad wrote:

On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 10:32:53AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 01/14/08 10:21, Ebanutiy Ebanatik Ebanatovich wrote:

Sorry for offtopic but I'm wondering if the cause of avoiding of top
posting is in something technical (e.g. to help forum software to
create weekly digests correctly) or is it a question of etiquette?

Rationality, because while some cultures read left->right, and
others read right->left, all read top->bottom.  None read bottom->top.

[flame on]
but we do read chronologically (in date order) and I for one hate having to go 
3 pages down to read the answer to the previous email (in a threaded news 
reader!).


Although I do admit that if you start in the last email of a thread it easier 
to read top to bottom 


I think that different date formats are employed even in different 
English speaking countries.


As far as top-posting is concerned, in order to assist the OP - two 
words - 'Logical Progression'.
Especially within a problem resolving format, such as this list, 
top-posting supplies a complete, step by step history of the situation 
from initial problem to final solution.


Of course, the lazy way is just to read the top of the exchange and grab 
the solution, but: this means that no level of understanding is achieved 
by the reader; the reader doesn't have the opportunity to contribute to 
the situation; bottom-up posting doesn't contribute to efficient 
archiving; and Debian, at least from my experience, isn't in the market 
of catering to laziness.

Regards,

--
David Palmer
Linux User - #352034


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Re: Transparent proxy - forwarding does not work

[Alex Samad]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 05:26:17PM -0200, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
>
>I'm trying to setup a transparent caching proxy with Squid. I've 
> installed Squid, configured it, in particular using the line
> http_port 3128 transparent
>
>The proxy is working fine. If I specify the proxy manually, I can see it 
> being used from access.log, and note the results of caching.
>
>However, the automatic forwarding is not working. First, I've enabled 
> forwarding with
> echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
are you only trying to capture http request from this machine ? if so you don't 
need this

>
>Then, following instructions found in the internet, I've run
> iptables -t nat -A PREROUTING -i eth0 -p tcp --dport 80 -j REDIRECT 
> --to-port 3128

if you are only trying to capture http request from this machine (the same as 
the proxy) then you need to use the output chain 

> to setup automatic forwarding of http requests. The command runs fine, and 
> the rule is added:
> # iptables -t nat -L
> Chain PREROUTING (policy ACCEPT)
> target prot opt source   destination
> REDIRECT   tcp  --  anywhere anywheretcp dpt:www 
> redir ports 3128
>
> Chain POSTROUTING (policy ACCEPT)
> target prot opt source   destination
>
> Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT)
> target prot opt source   destination
>
>However, the forwarding simply does not happen. Requests do not pass 
> through the proxy, everything works as before.
>
>Is there anything that is missing?
>
>Kernel is linux-image-2.6.22-2-amd64, version 2.6.22-4 . Now I'm using 
> squid3 version 3.0.STABLE1-1, but I've also tried with squid 2.6.17-1, and 
> the results are the same.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> -- 
> History repeats itself.  That's one thing wrong with history.
>
> Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://move.to/hpkb
>
>
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a 
> subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>

-- 
"Perhaps one way will be, if we use military force, in the post-Saddam Iraq the 
U.N. will definitely need to have a role. And that way it can begin to get its 
legs, legs of responsibility back."

- George W. Bush
03/16/2003
the Azores, Portugal


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Re: [OT] top posting

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 01/14/08 16:07, David wrote:
> Alex Samad wrote:
>> On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 10:32:53AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
>>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>> On 01/14/08 10:21, Ebanutiy Ebanatik Ebanatovich wrote:
 Sorry for offtopic but I'm wondering if the cause of avoiding of top
 posting is in something technical (e.g. to help forum software to
 create weekly digests correctly) or is it a question of etiquette?
>>> Rationality, because while some cultures read left->right, and
>>> others read right->left, all read top->bottom.  None read bottom->top.
>> [flame on]
>> but we do read chronologically (in date order) and I for one hate
>> having to go 3 pages down to read the answer to the previous email (in
>> a threaded news reader!).
>>
>> Although I do admit that if you start in the last email of a thread it
>> easier to read top to bottom 
> 
> I think that different date formats are employed even in different
> English speaking countries.
> 
> As far as top-posting is concerned, in order to assist the OP - two
> words - 'Logical Progression'.

Sure.  -MM-DD; DD-AAA-; MM/DD/YY; DD/MM/YY, etc.

But no one counts down unless they know what the top number is.

> Especially within a problem resolving format, such as this list,
> top-posting supplies a complete, step by step history of the situation
> from initial problem to final solution.
> 
> Of course, the lazy way is just to read the top of the exchange and grab
> the solution, but: this means that no level of understanding is achieved
> by the reader; the reader doesn't have the opportunity to contribute to
> the situation; bottom-up posting doesn't contribute to efficient
> archiving; and Debian, at least from my experience, isn't in the market
> of catering to laziness.
> Regards,
> 


- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

"I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian
because I hate vegetables!"
unknown
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=w2K4
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: new user question: debian on a Thinkpad T61

[Jimmy Wu]

On Jan 14, 2008 2:26 PM, Mike Bird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon January 14 2008 03:47:32 Chris Bannister wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 09, 2008 at 04:51:21PM -0500, Jimmy Wu wrote:
> > > am not a big gamer.  The only reason I would have Windows is because
> > > there might be unforeseeable circumstances when I may run into Windows
> > > only software.  I am sure if I needed to, I could always shrink by
> > > Debian partition later and install XP, right?
> >
> > As far as I know, M$ doesn't play friendly with other OS's. XP will want
> > all the HD. You are best to install XP, then Debian. There may be ways
> > around it but I'm guessing they would be very unpleasant.
>
> Lenny installer had no problem shrinking the Vista partition and
> setting up grub dual boot - actually triple boot on the T61 if you
> keep the diag partition (recommended).
>

Thanks again for all the input.  Given the large amount of HD space I
have, I think I will go with keeping Vista and dual booting, although
I have a bit of work to do before I can even get into installation:

The computer was a gift, and has been preloaded with a bunch of stuff
by the person who gave it to me.  Included in this bunch of stuff are,
among other things, 20 GB of uncompressed audio and lots of software,
including Office 2007, Nero 7 Ultra (or something like that, I have
never used nero and don't know what it's supposed to be called), and
an install of Tomb Raider.  Obviously, it would be rather sad to
irrevocably wipe all of this away, so I am trying to back up and
salvage as much of it as possible.  The isos will be relatively easy
to back up (I'll just burn them), but I'll have to go in and find the
registration / product keys that were used somehow.

What makes my job harder is the weird partition scheme, which makes it
so I can't just resize a partition or two and move everything that
needs to be backed up to some excess space out of the way.
I don't really trust what Windows' disk utility tells me, as IIRC it
hides the Rescue & Recovery partition, but what it does tell me is as
follows:
Disk 0 (149 GB):
Partition 1: 39 GB (Windows Vista install)
Partition 2: 55 GB (all the music, misc .iso's for Vista, Office 2007
and other software installation executables)
Partition 3: 55 GB (Tomb Raider-Legend files)

Disk 1 (513 MB):
Partition 1: 511 MB (I guess this is the recovery partition, but am
not sure; it contains one file: ReadyBoost.sfcache (409 MB) )

All partitions are NTFS
The Windows Device Manager lists two hard drives:
Fujitsu MHW2160BH PL
IMD-0

I tried to boot from my Ubuntu 7.04 liveCD to use gParted to get
another look at the partition, but the CD wouldn't boot.  So I tried a
really old (several years old) Knoppix CD I had (Knoppix 4.0), and
that booted, but I couldn't figure out how to get Qtparted to show me
the partitions (it showed one disk: UNIONFS/dev/hda or something like
that, but no partitions)

Now that I've given all the background info, I have two main things
I'm trying to do:

(1)
I'm trying to decide if Tomb Raider is worth keeping, especially
because I've never played it before and probably won't, and I don't
know where the installation .exe is, nor do I have a CD.  All that's
there is a bunch of cryptic bigfiles (all over 100 MB in size), more
cryptic files, two exe's to run the game, an uninstall exe, readme's,
and I am guessing hidden in there somewhere save data.  I do not know
if this mess is salvageable, ie if it will work by just copying
everything to another Windows Vista computer.  Any
ideas/suggestions/opinions on what to do with this?

(2)
I definitely want to save the music.  For the most part, they're split
up by CD, with the whole CD audio saved as one file in APE format with
a CUE file to go along.  There are also a few wav and flac files.  But
20 GB is a lot to move, and since it's on the second partition, I'm
not quite sure what I'm going to do with it yet.  Again, suggestions
would be appreciated.  What I want to do, eventually, is to split up
the CD audio into individual tracks, and convert everything to FLAC
(going with the open source format).  If there any good Linux audio
converters that would accomplish that, then I might move everything
somewhere else temporarily and sort through it later, after I get
Debian installed.  If not, I might be stuck with converting all these
files on Windows before I can even get started installing Debian.

Wow that was a long post.  Sorry.

Thanks again for your help,

Jimmy
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Re: new user question: debian on a Thinkpad T61

[David]

Mike Bird wrote:




Lenny installer had no problem shrinking the Vista partition and
setting up grub dual boot - actually triple boot on the T61 if you
keep the diag partition (recommended).


Sorry for butting in, but assuming this is the Lenovo T61, what do you 
think of it?

It's one of a number I'm considering at the moment.

Did you get the pre-installed SUSE option or do you have Debian 
installed, and if so, any config problems?

Regards,

--
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Linux User - #352034


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Re: [OT] top posting

[Alex Samad]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 04:28:53PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 01/14/08 16:07, David wrote:
> > Alex Samad wrote:
> >> On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 10:32:53AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> >>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> >>> Hash: SHA1
> >>>
> >>> On 01/14/08 10:21, Ebanutiy Ebanatik Ebanatovich wrote:
>  Sorry for offtopic but I'm wondering if the cause of avoiding of top
>  posting is in something technical (e.g. to help forum software to
>  create weekly digests correctly) or is it a question of etiquette?
> >>> Rationality, because while some cultures read left->right, and
> >>> others read right->left, all read top->bottom.  None read bottom->top.
> >> [flame on]
> >> but we do read chronologically (in date order) and I for one hate
> >> having to go 3 pages down to read the answer to the previous email (in
> >> a threaded news reader!).
> >>
> >> Although I do admit that if you start in the last email of a thread it
> >> easier to read top to bottom 
> > 
> > I think that different date formats are employed even in different
> > English speaking countries.
> > 
> > As far as top-posting is concerned, in order to assist the OP - two
> > words - 'Logical Progression'.
> 
> Sure.  -MM-DD; DD-AAA-; MM/DD/YY; DD/MM/YY, etc.

my mail reader sort my mail in date order and links together all the threaded 
emails.  I read them in date/time  order, if I follow a thread from begging to 
end, then all i should have to do is read the top posts, but if they bottom 
posted, then as the thread grows I find I have to scroll further down, re 
reading the same information I have read in the previous email.

> 
> But no one counts down unless they know what the top number is.
> 
> > Especially within a problem resolving format, such as this list,
> > top-posting supplies a complete, step by step history of the situation
> > from initial problem to final solution.
> > 
> > Of course, the lazy way is just to read the top of the exchange and grab
> > the solution, but: this means that no level of understanding is achieved
> > by the reader; the reader doesn't have the opportunity to contribute to
> > the situation; bottom-up posting doesn't contribute to efficient
> > archiving; and Debian, at least from my experience, isn't in the market
> > of catering to laziness.
> > Regards,
> > 
> 
> 
> - --
> Ron Johnson, Jr.
> Jefferson LA  USA
> 
> "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian
> because I hate vegetables!"
> unknown
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iD8DBQFHi+IlS9HxQb37XmcRArY9AKDZhQ+ZIWswVcYWbfiLwNDtavkeRgCgtrc9
> +hDlVGSjZvPw19bMg9EXnHg=
> =w2K4
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> 
> 
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> 
> 

-- 
"That's just the nature of democracy. Sometimes pure politics enters into the 
rhetoric."

- George W. Bush
08/08/2003
Crawford, TX


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Re: [OT] top posting

[Alex Samad]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 04:13:22PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 01/14/08 15:57, Alex Samad wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 10:32:53AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > On 01/14/08 10:21, Ebanutiy Ebanatik Ebanatovich wrote:
> >>> Sorry for offtopic but I'm wondering if the cause of avoiding of top
> >>> posting is in something technical (e.g. to help forum software to
> >>> create weekly digests correctly) or is it a question of etiquette?
> > Rationality, because while some cultures read left->right, and
> > others read right->left, all read top->bottom.  None read bottom->top.
> >> [flame on]
> >> but we do read chronologically (in date order) and I for one hate having 
> >> to go 
> 
> Thanks for making my point, since when does time "move" from bottom
> to top?
so you are advocating top posting ?
> 
> >> 3 pages down to read the answer to the previous email (in a threaded news 
> >> reader!).
> >  
> >> Although I do admit that if you start in the last email of a thread it 
> >> easier 
> >> to read top to bottom 
> > 
> >> [flame off]
> 
> - --
> Ron Johnson, Jr.
> Jefferson LA  USA
> 
> "I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian
> because I hate vegetables!"
> unknown
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iD8DBQFHi96CS9HxQb37XmcRAiAtAJ9KImzuh8R29832G16YqN+nCMC0GACg6cRX
> Qim4g+dBfGnqQm97FdXLyGo=
> =+5xv
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> 
> 
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> 

-- 
* Knghtbrd pelts wichert with NERF darts
* wichert notes there are no ICBM nerfs yet and ignores kngtbrd
 wichert - just wait, after seeing the NERF gatling guns, ICBMs
   are not far off (just pump the damned thing for an hour or two
   is all...)


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Re: OT: dying disk - data recovery recommendations

[KS]

Dominique Dumont wrote:
> "Douglas A. Tutty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
>> Find a way to attach that drive to a functional system.  One way would
>> be to use a 2.5" portable USB enclosure. 
> 
> No. from my experience USB will hang if the drive hit a wrong sector.
> 

I had inserted the disk in an enclosure and connected to the G4 (with
new hard disk and new OS X 10.4) via Firewire cable. As there was lots
of space on the new HDD, I thought why not compile ddrescue and get the
image on the G4's new hard disk straight away! So I left the G4 running
with ddrescue trying to read the old hard disk over the weekend. On
Monday, it showed 149kB of successfully transfered data along with 30MB
of erroneous data!

Just as a last ditch effort before calling some data recovery service
company, I thought why not give it a try on the Linux box (which was
able to mount it read-only, the G4 didn't even do that!). The Linux box
is reading the disk connected via USB and had finished about 9GB by the
time I left without any errors. Now the only problem is that the disk is
38GB whereas I had only 32GB free on the Linux box! Need to take my
external 500GB disk along tomorrow.

> You should:
> - attach the disk to an internal IDE (or sata) cable
> - use dd_rescue to copy the image to a file (can be long) (or
>   gddrescue)
> - fsck the copied image.
> 
> Do not run fsck on a failing disk, it will make thing worse.
> 
> HTH
> 

The .img image(38GB) that ddrescue is creating, do I use fsck.hfsplus on
it or just fsck?

Thanks
KS.


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Re: [OT] top posting

[Raquel]

On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:52:04 +1100
Alex Samad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> my mail reader sort my mail in date order and links together all
> the threaded emails.  I read them in date/time  order, if I follow
> a thread from begging to end, then all i should have to do is read
> the top posts, but if they bottom posted, then as the thread grows
> I find I have to scroll further down, re reading the same
> information I have read in the previous email.

Then the people posting are not trimming their posts as they should.

-- 
Raquel

To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards out of men.
  --Abraham Lincoln


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Re: new user question: debian on a Thinkpad T61

[Mike Bird]

On Mon January 14 2008 13:54:21 David wrote:
> > Lenny installer had no problem shrinking the Vista partition and
> > setting up grub dual boot - actually triple boot on the T61 if you
> > keep the diag partition (recommended).
>
> Sorry for butting in, but assuming this is the Lenovo T61, what do you
> think of it?
> It's one of a number I'm considering at the moment.
>
> Did you get the pre-installed SUSE option or do you have Debian
> installed, and if so, any config problems?

We're running Lenny with a little bit of Sid for the NVidia support.
Graphics are really fast.  HD, ether, KBD, USB, bluetooth, and various
pointing devices are fine.  Have not yet tried Wifi or fingerprint or
card reader.  There are patches available to make sound work in
2.6.22 but I'm not in a hurry so I'm waiting for 2.6.23 which doesn't
need patching.  I mostly use the T61 on wall current so I haven't
tried suspend, hibernate, etc.

The packages from Sid for NVidia are nvidia*, xserver-xorg*, and
x11-common.  You'll also need to build the non-free driver using
module assistant.

We chose Thinkpads for reliability.  For much more useful info,
check out thinkwiki.org.

--Mike Bird


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Re: [OT] top posting

[Dotan Cohen]

On 15/01/2008, Alex Samad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> my mail reader sort my mail in date order and links together all the threaded
> emails.  I read them in date/time  order, if I follow a thread from begging to
> end, then all i should have to do is read the top posts, but if they bottom
> posted, then as the thread grows I find I have to scroll further down, re
> reading the same information I have read in the previous email.
>

Too bad the whole world doesn't use your mail reader. The whole world
should be forced to use the same mail reader, and the same office suit
and web browser while we're at it. On the same OS. Oh, wait, Microsoft
_is_ trying to accomplish that.

Also, your mail was _middle_posted_ and quoted every message before it
in full. You really are aiming for the worse of all worlds, aren't
you?

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

Re: new user question: debian on a Thinkpad T61

[David]

Mike Bird wrote:

On Mon January 14 2008 13:54:21 David wrote:





Sorry for butting in, but assuming this is the Lenovo T61, what do you
think of it?
It's one of a number I'm considering at the moment.

Did you get the pre-installed SUSE option or do you have Debian
installed, and if so, any config problems?


We're running Lenny with a little bit of Sid for the NVidia support.
Graphics are really fast.  HD, ether, KBD, USB, bluetooth, and various
pointing devices are fine.  Have not yet tried Wifi or fingerprint or
card reader.  There are patches available to make sound work in
2.6.22 but I'm not in a hurry so I'm waiting for 2.6.23 which doesn't
need patching.  I mostly use the T61 on wall current so I haven't
tried suspend, hibernate, etc.

The packages from Sid for NVidia are nvidia*, xserver-xorg*, and
x11-common.  You'll also need to build the non-free driver using
module assistant.

We chose Thinkpads for reliability.  For much more useful info,
check out thinkwiki.org.


Thanks for that.
Regards,
--
David Palmer
Linux User - #352034


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Compiz: Blacklisted PCIID '8086:29a2' found

[Magnus Therning]

I had shiny, bling on my desktop until a recent update of compiz-fusion
packages (I get them from
http://download.tuxfamily.org/shames/debian-sid/desktopfx/unstable/).

Now I'm greeted by the following when running compiz-manager:

  Checking for Xgl: not present.
  Blacklisted PCIID '8086:29a2' found
  aborting and using fallback: /usr/bin/metacity

I've done some searching online, but haven't found anything really
helpful.  Any ideas of how I can get my wobbly windows back again?

/M

-- 
Magnus Therning (OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4)
magnus＠therning．org Jabber: magnus．therning＠gmail．com
http://therning.org/magnus

What if I don't want to obey the laws? Do they throw me in jail with
the other bad monads?
 -- Daveman



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Re: flock, fcntl, lockf?

[Hendrik Boom]

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:57:12 -0600, Michael Shuler wrote:

> On 01/14/2008 09:34 AM, Hendrik Boom wrote:
>> What's the right way these days to lock a file (or possibly a part of a
>> file) to prevent damage from simultaneous writing?
> 
> I suppose the answer could be, "depends on what you want to do.."  I 
> think that flock() does not work on NFS mounts, if that is any 
> consideration.
>
Yes.  That's a big consideration.

-- hendrik


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Re: flock, fcntl, lockf?

[Hendrik Boom]

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:17:53 -0900, Ken Irving wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 03:34:27PM +, Hendrik Boom wrote:
>> What's the right way these days to lock a file (or possibly a part of a
>> file) to prevent damage from simultaneous writing?
> 
> My impression is that file locking is based on all participants following
> the same convention, whatever it is, so the right way would be whatever
> other programs that might be operating on the same files are doing.
>

Yes.  Exactly.  I'm writing new software, so I have a bit of a choice.  My
question involves both technical issues and the latest fashion trends in
the file locking community.

-- hendrik


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Re: [OT] top posting

[Ken Irving]

On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 09:52:59AM +1100, Alex Samad wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 04:13:22PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > On 01/14/08 15:57, Alex Samad wrote:
> > > On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 10:32:53AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > > On 01/14/08 10:21, Ebanutiy Ebanatik Ebanatovich wrote:
> > >>> Sorry for offtopic but I'm wondering if the cause of avoiding of top
> > >>> posting is in something technical (e.g. to help forum software to
> > >>> create weekly digests correctly) or is it a question of etiquette?

The latter.

> > > Rationality, because while some cultures read left->right, and
> > > others read right->left, all read top->bottom.  None read bottom->top.
> > >> [flame on]
> > >> but we do read chronologically (in date order) and I for one hate having 
> > >> to go 
> > 
> > Thanks for making my point, since when does time "move" from bottom
> > to top?
> so you are advocating top posting ?

IMHO, trying to argue this point based on "rational" or objective
reasoning, that one way is truly, obviously, and naturally "better"
than another, is fraught with hazard, since someone *will* argue with
equal validity (to them at least) that their way is better.

In fact, it's a social convention, a matter of etiquette.  The practice
varies, and some lists work the other way, but on this and many lists
the convention is to top post, trim heartily, try to get the attributions
right(1), and have a good day!

Ken

(1) the attribution from the OP is missing in this message, I think.
-- 
Ken Irving, [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [OT] top posting

[Wayne Topa]

Raquel([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:52:04 +1100
> Alex Samad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > my mail reader sort my mail in date order and links together all
> > the threaded emails.  I read them in date/time  order, if I follow
> > a thread from begging to end, then all i should have to do is read
> > the top posts, but if they bottom posted, then as the thread grows
> > I find I have to scroll further down, re reading the same
> > information I have read in the previous email.
> 
> Then the people posting are not trimming their posts as they should.

Amen!

WT

-- 
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___


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Re: [OT] top posting

[Alex Samad]

On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 01:10:00AM +0200, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> On 15/01/2008, Alex Samad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > my mail reader sort my mail in date order and links together all the 
> > threaded
> > emails.  I read them in date/time  order, if I follow a thread from begging 
> > to
> > end, then all i should have to do is read the top posts, but if they bottom
> > posted, then as the thread grows I find I have to scroll further down, re
> > reading the same information I have read in the previous email.
> >
> 
> Too bad the whole world doesn't use your mail reader. The whole world
> should be forced to use the same mail reader, and the same office suit
> and web browser while we're at it. On the same OS. Oh, wait, Microsoft
> _is_ trying to accomplish that.
I am using mutt, but I believe most mail readers thread emails for you.

All I am trying to point out is for a normal user ( ie somebody who is 
subscribed to the list), when a thread starts, you read them in date/time order 
as them come in, why seems illogical to have to scroll through stuff that you 
have just read.  The exception is of course when you start a thread in the 
middle.


> 
> Also, your mail was _middle_posted_ and quoted every message before it
> in full. You really are aiming for the worse of all worlds, aren't
> you?
I believe (maybe wrongly ) that this mailing list is a non top-posting list, I 
try and conform.

if I have offended my appologies


> 
> Dotan Cohen
> 
> http://what-is-what.com
> http://gibberish.co.il
> א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת
> 
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

-- 
"The recession started upon my arrival. It could have been -- some say 
February, some say March, some speculate maybe earlier it started -- but 
nevertheless, it happened as we showed up here. The attacks on our country 
affected our economy. Corporate scandals affected the confidence of people and 
therefore affected the economy. My decision on Iraq, this kind of march to war, 
affected the economy."

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02/08/2004
on Meet the Press


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Re: Sound problem on Lenny PPC: fixed

[J.T. Chittleborough]

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:15:19 pm Florian Kulzer wrote:
> modprobe snd_pcm_oss

> If that works then you can add snd_pcm_oss to /etc/modules to make sure
> that it is loaded at every boot.

Thanks very much. Between this and a similar suggestion I stumbled across, 
on the Fedora forums of all places, I've got it working again. The exact 
command used was:

# modprobe snd-powermac

Cheers,
Jim Chittleborough


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Re: [OT] top posting

[Ken Irving]

On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 12:00:28PM +1100, Alex Samad wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 03:49:52PM -0900, Ken Irving wrote:
> > In fact, it's a social convention, a matter of etiquette.  The practice
> > varies, and some lists work the other way, but on this and many lists
> > the convention is to top post, trim heartily, try to get the attributions

Arghh... that should've been "bottom post", or at least "to not top post"...
  
> It the convention is to top post then we don't seem to be following the 
> convention. ( I thought it was to not top post ?)

Yup, I screwed that up pretty well. ;-) 

-- 
Ken Irving, [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [OT] top posting

[Alex Samad]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 03:25:14PM -0800, Raquel wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:52:04 +1100
> Alex Samad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > my mail reader sort my mail in date order and links together all
> > the threaded emails.  I read them in date/time  order, if I follow
> > a thread from begging to end, then all i should have to do is read
> > the top posts, but if they bottom posted, then as the thread grows
> > I find I have to scroll further down, re reading the same
> > information I have read in the previous email.
> 
> Then the people posting are not trimming their posts as they should.
or taken to the extreme, why not remove all the original post!
> 
> -- 
> Raquel
> 
> To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards out of men.
>   --Abraham Lincoln
> 
> 
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> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 

-- 
I'll pretend to trust you if you'll pretend to trust me.


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Re: [OT] top posting

[Alex Samad]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 03:49:52PM -0900, Ken Irving wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 09:52:59AM +1100, Alex Samad wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 04:13:22PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > > On 01/14/08 15:57, Alex Samad wrote:
> > > > On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 10:32:53AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > > > On 01/14/08 10:21, Ebanutiy Ebanatik Ebanatovich wrote:
> > > >>> Sorry for offtopic but I'm wondering if the cause of avoiding of top
> > > >>> posting is in something technical (e.g. to help forum software to
> > > >>> create weekly digests correctly) or is it a question of etiquette?
> 
> The latter.
> 
> > > > Rationality, because while some cultures read left->right, and
> > > > others read right->left, all read top->bottom.  None read bottom->top.
> > > >> [flame on]
> > > >> but we do read chronologically (in date order) and I for one hate 
> > > >> having to go 
> > > 
> > > Thanks for making my point, since when does time "move" from bottom
> > > to top?
> > so you are advocating top posting ?
> 
> IMHO, trying to argue this point based on "rational" or objective
> reasoning, that one way is truly, obviously, and naturally "better"
> than another, is fraught with hazard, since someone *will* argue with
> equal validity (to them at least) that their way is better.
> 
> In fact, it's a social convention, a matter of etiquette.  The practice
> varies, and some lists work the other way, but on this and many lists
> the convention is to top post, trim heartily, try to get the attributions
It the convention is to top post then we don't seem to be following the 
convention. ( I thought it was to not top post ?)

> right(1), and have a good day!
> 
> Ken
> 
> (1) the attribution from the OP is missing in this message, I think.
> -- 
> Ken Irving, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
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> 
> 

-- 
Thus mathematics may be defined as the subject in which we never know
what we are talking about, nor whether what we are saying is true.
-- Bertrand Russell


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Re: [OT] top posting

[Dotan Cohen]

On 15/01/2008, Alex Samad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am using mutt, but I believe most mail readers thread emails for you.

Actually, mutt is a pretty decent mail reader!

> All I am trying to point out is for a normal user ( ie somebody who is
> subscribed to the list), when a thread starts, you read them in date/time 
> order
> as them come in, why seems illogical to have to scroll through stuff that you
> have just read.  The exception is of course when you start a thread in the
> middle.

No, I read them hours after they have come in, when I get to my mail.
And there are those who will read them for many months or years in
TFA.

> > Also, your mail was _middle_posted_ and quoted every message before it
> > in full. You really are aiming for the worse of all worlds, aren't
> > you?
> I believe (maybe wrongly ) that this mailing list is a non top-posting list, I
> try and conform.

This is a bottom-posting list, like every other list that has such a
rule. I've never heard of a list that specifically _prefers_ top
posting. If there is such a list, I doubt that it would be of a very
technical nature.

> if I have offended my appologies

No, you haven't offended. But you should have dug through the archive
before dragging this one up from the dead again. It's been discussed
on this list alone over 5000 times (as Michael has pointed out).

Dotan Cohen

http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

Re: [OT] Re: Burn CD

[s. keeling]

Ron Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>  On 01/13/08 14:09, s. keeling wrote:
> > 
> > This is a waste of time.
> 
>  Am I the only one who's noticed that Schilling's mail/news reader 
>  doesn't thread?

I thought that was just yet another of his quirky habits.  It explains
why he loses attributions too.  "nail" is "feature-rich BSD mail(1)".
How many people do you know who would be content with mailx (which is
about what I assume nail is).  Ooooh, nail can even do MIME and UTF-8,
and even handles SSL!

And you laugh at me for being a CLI dinosaur?  :-)


[No offense intended to nail's author/maintainer, honest.  I'm sure
it's fine for its purpose, but mail/mailx/nail is a niche tool, not
something you'd suggest for Lookout! users to migrate to, ie. your
average MUA.]
-- 
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Re: [OT] top posting

[Ron Johnson]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 01/14/08 17:10, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> On 15/01/2008, Alex Samad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> my mail reader sort my mail in date order and links together all the threaded
>> emails.  I read them in date/time  order, if I follow a thread from begging 
>> to
>> end, then all i should have to do is read the top posts, but if they bottom
>> posted, then as the thread grows I find I have to scroll further down, re
>> reading the same information I have read in the previous email.
>>
> 
> Too bad the whole world doesn't use your mail reader. The whole world
> should be forced to use the same mail reader, and the same office suit
> and web browser while we're at it. On the same OS. Oh, wait, Microsoft
> _is_ trying to accomplish that.

The scary thing is that he uses Mutt.

> Also, your mail was _middle_posted_ and quoted every message before it
> in full. You really are aiming for the worse of all worlds, aren't
> you?

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

"I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian
because I hate vegetables!"
unknown
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Re: [OT] top posting

[Ron Johnson]

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On 01/14/08 16:52, Alex Samad wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 04:13:22PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 01/14/08 15:57, Alex Samad wrote:
 On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 10:32:53AM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote:
 On 01/14/08 10:21, Ebanutiy Ebanatik Ebanatovich wrote:
>> Sorry for offtopic but I'm wondering if the cause of avoiding of top
>> posting is in something technical (e.g. to help forum software to
>> create weekly digests correctly) or is it a question of etiquette?
 Rationality, because while some cultures read left->right, and
 others read right->left, all read top->bottom.  None read bottom->top.
> [flame on]
> but we do read chronologically (in date order) and I for one hate having 
> to go 
> Thanks for making my point, since when does time "move" from bottom
> to top?
>> so you are advocating top posting ?

When you're writing a journal or diary, do you start at page 1 or
page "last"?

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

"I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian
because I hate vegetables!"
unknown
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Re: [OT] top posting

[Wayne Topa]

Alex Samad([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said:
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 03:49:52PM -0900, Ken Irving wrote:
> > IMHO, trying to argue this point based on "rational" or objective
> > reasoning, that one way is truly, obviously, and naturally "better"
> > than another, is fraught with hazard, since someone *will* argue with
> > equal validity (to them at least) that their way is better.
> > 
> > In fact, it's a social convention, a matter of etiquette.  The practice
> > varies, and some lists work the other way, but on this and many lists
> > the convention is to top post, trim heartily, try to get the attributions
> It the convention is to top post then we don't seem to be following the 

> convention. ( I thought it was to not top post ?)

Alex, are you trolling?  If not, you sure are making a 'name' for
yourself.  No only are you not trimming the text we all have in the
thread, you don't even trim the end of the posts.  

Keep it up, my whitelist is full but my blacklist has a lot of space
left.

Wt

-- 
"As part of the conversion, computer specialists rewrote 1,500
programs; a process that traditionally requires some debugging.
-- USA Today, referring to the IRS switchover to a new computer system.  
___


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Re: [OT] top posting

[Alex Samad]

On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 03:40:18AM +0200, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> On 15/01/2008, Alex Samad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I am using mutt, but I believe most mail readers thread emails for you.
[snip]
> 
> No, you haven't offended. But you should have dug through the archive

I didn't believe i commented at that time

> before dragging this one up from the dead again. It's been discussed
> on this list alone over 5000 times (as Michael has pointed out).
> 
> Dotan Cohen
> 
> http://what-is-what.com
> http://gibberish.co.il
> א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת
> 
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

-- 
The first 90% of a project takes 90% of the time, the last 10% takes the
other 90% of the time.


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Re: [OT] top posting

[Alex Samad]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 04:17:42PM -0900, Ken Irving wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 12:00:28PM +1100, Alex Samad wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 03:49:52PM -0900, Ken Irving wrote:
> > > In fact, it's a social convention, a matter of etiquette.  The practice
> > > varies, and some lists work the other way, but on this and many lists
> > > the convention is to top post, trim heartily, try to get the attributions
> 
> Arghh... that should've been "bottom post", or at least "to not top post"...
>   
> > It the convention is to top post then we don't seem to be following the 
> > convention. ( I thought it was to not top post ?)
> 
> Yup, I screwed that up pretty well. ;-) 
> 

I find in situations like this its best to laugh a little, i have been spending 
a bit of time laughing at myself recently 

> -- 
> Ken Irving, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 

-- 
"It is not Reaganesque to support a tax plan that is Clinton in nature."

- George W. Bush
02/23/2000
Los Angeles, CA


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Etch ipw2200 dropping packets

[Bill Thompson]

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Has anybody had issues with the default kernel ipw2200 drivers that
come with Etch dropping packets? Pinging different sites show a 20%-50%
packet loss over different WiFi networks. Using a wired connection on
the same Internet gateway show 0% packet loss.

I would think that this was a hardware problem, but booting the same
machine with an Ubuntu live-CD allows me to log onto the WiFi networks
I used for testing with no trouble and no packet loss. 

The one difference I have found is that Etch has the driver version
listed as 1.2.0mq and Ubuntu 7.10 lists the version as 1.2.0kmprq.
The Intel Sourceforge site for the driver does not show "mq" and
"kmprq" as version numbers, so I'm not sure where the real difference
lies.

Thanks,
- -- 
Bill Thompson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [OT] top posting

[Ron Johnson]

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On 01/14/08 18:58, Alex Samad wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 03:25:14PM -0800, Raquel wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:52:04 +1100
>> Alex Samad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> my mail reader sort my mail in date order and links together all
>>> the threaded emails.  I read them in date/time  order, if I follow
>>> a thread from begging to end, then all i should have to do is read
>>> the top posts, but if they bottom posted, then as the thread grows
>>> I find I have to scroll further down, re reading the same
>>> information I have read in the previous email.
>> Then the people posting are not trimming their posts as they should.
> or taken to the extreme, why not remove all the original post!

Extremism is the hallmark of the non-thinker.

- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA  USA

"I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian
because I hate vegetables!"
unknown
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Re: [OT] top posting

[s. keeling]

Alex Samad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
>  All I am trying to point out is for a normal user ( ie somebody who
>  is subscribed to the list), when a thread starts, you read them in
>  date/time order as them come in, why seems illogical to have to
>  scroll through stuff that you have just read.  The exception is of
>  course when you start a thread in the middle.

And another is when you land on the same post in the archives, or
groups.google.com and you have to try to make sense of a mish-mash of
reply styles.

>  I believe (maybe wrongly ) that this mailing list is a non
>  top-posting list, I try and conform.

You're correct.  List policy prefers "snip irrelevancies and bottom
post."

>  if I have offended my appologies

Not here.  Have fun.


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Re: [OT] top posting

[s. keeling]

Alex Samad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
>  my mail reader sort my mail in date order and links together all
>  the threaded emails.  I read them in date/time order, if I follow a
>  thread from begging to end, then all i should have to do is read
>  the top posts, but if they bottom posted, then as the thread grows
>  I find I have to scroll further down, rereading the same
>  information I have read in the previous email.

They didn't trim.  Bottom-posting without trimming is no better than
top-posting.


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Re: [OT] top posting

[s. keeling]

Ken Irving <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>  On Tue, Jan 15, 2008 at 12:00:28PM +1100, Alex Samad wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 03:49:52PM -0900, Ken Irving wrote:
> > > In fact, it's a social convention, a matter of etiquette.  The practice
> > > varies, and some lists work the other way, but on this and many lists
> > > the convention is to top post, trim heartily, try to get the attributions
> 
>  Arghh... that should've been "bottom post", or at least "to not top post"...
>
> > It the convention is to top post then we don't seem to be following the 
> > convention. ( I thought it was to not top post ?)
> 
>  Yup, I screwed that up pretty well. ;-) 

Good follow-through, though.  :-)  I knew what you meant, and I knew
you weren't advocating top-posting.

I prefer "bottom post, and trim heartily."  Attributions are good too
(Joerg S.y). 


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