Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Mike Bird]

On Sun May 9 2010 23:22:47 Adrian von Bidder wrote:
> KDE 3.5 in Debian is dead unless you start working on it.   There is nobody
> (else) who is ready to do the work.

KDE upstream has run off the rails.  There are a lot of people
both here and elsewhere trying to discuss how best to proceed.

--Mike Bird


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Mike Bird]

On Mon May 10 2010 03:09:46 Michael Thaler wrote:
> > KDE upstream has run off the rails.  There are a lot of people
> > both here and elsewhere trying to discuss how best to proceed.
>
> Can you please stop this? There are a lot of people who see KDE 4 as an
> improvement compared to KDE 3 (including me). There are many people who
> like the direction KDE has taken (including me, again), KDE 4 is
> progressing very nicely and has lots of developers. KDE 3 is dead, it is
> not maintained anymore, nobody works on it and that will not going to
> change whether you like it or not. If KDE 4 does not fit your needs, use
> something else or help make KDE 4 fit your needs.

KDE 3.5 is not dead.  It has many active users and a few active
maintainers, such as Trinity.

You are free not to engage in discussions about rescuing KDE 3.5.

Please don't interfere with discussions about rescuing KDE 3.5.

--Mike Bird


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Monday 10 May 2010 12.57:18 Mike Bird wrote:
> Please don't interfere with discussions about rescuing KDE 3.5.

So far most of the "discussion" has been whining about where KDE 4 is 
perceived to be worse than KDE 3.5 and whining that "somebody should please 
do something".

If the discussion starts to get positive and deals with stuff like who will 
do what and where to host the new packages until they can be uploaded etc., 
this kind of whining about what discussions should or should not be held 
will probably stop quite soon.  (At least from my side.)

cheers
-- vbi

-- 
I think there's a world market for about five computers.
-- attr. Thomas J. Watson (Chairman of the Board, IBM), 1943


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Mike Bird]

On Mon May 10 2010 05:14:57 Adrian von Bidder wrote:
> So far most of the "discussion" has been whining about where KDE 4 is
> perceived to be worse than KDE 3.5 and whining that "somebody should please
> do something".

KDE 4 has far more problems - both conceptually and in
implementation - than KDE 3.5.  I wasn't aware that KDE 4
had received an exemption from discussion of problems.  Every
other package in Debian seems able to stand the heat.

Nevertheless the KDE 3.5 users are not trying to block KDE 4
in any way.  It is the KDE 4 true believers who are obstructing
KDE 3.5 at every opportunity.

Now if you have nothing useful to say about KDE 3.5, please
stop trolling this thread.

--Mike Bird


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Dotan Cohen]

On 10 May 2010 15:38, Mike Bird  wrote:
> On Mon May 10 2010 05:14:57 Adrian von Bidder wrote:
>> So far most of the "discussion" has been whining about where KDE 4 is
>> perceived to be worse than KDE 3.5 and whining that "somebody should please
>> do something".
>
> KDE 4 has far more problems - both conceptually and in
> implementation - than KDE 3.5.  I wasn't aware that KDE 4
> had received an exemption from discussion of problems.  Every
> other package in Debian seems able to stand the heat.
>
> Nevertheless the KDE 3.5 users are not trying to block KDE 4
> in any way.  It is the KDE 4 true believers who are obstructing
> KDE 3.5 at every opportunity.
>
> Now if you have nothing useful to say about KDE 3.5, please
> stop trolling this thread.
>

Just let them go, Adrian. When I to to fix KDE 4 for these two, I am
"obstructing KDE 3.5 at every opportunity". Let them troll themselves
into obscurity. At least they cannot complain that nobody tried to
help them get the features they need into KDE 4. Well, they will
complain about that because apparently I "ordered" them to tell me
what is wrong with KDE 4, instead of simply deducing that out of thin
air.


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Frederik Schwarzer]

[Mike Bird - Montag 10 Mai 2010 14:38:59] 
> On Mon May 10 2010 05:14:57 Adrian von Bidder wrote:
> > So far most of the "discussion" has been whining about where KDE 4 is
> > perceived to be worse than KDE 3.5 and whining that "somebody should please
> > do something".
> 
> KDE 4 has far more problems - both conceptually and in
> implementation - than KDE 3.5.

How is this measured?


> I wasn't aware that KDE 4
> had received an exemption from discussion of problems.

You do not dicuss problems. You just repeat and repeat
and repeat that KDE 4 is wrong and the devs are wrong
and that KDE 3 is better.


> Every
> other package in Debian seems able to stand the heat.

Oh, have you already been to the Apache folks telling them,
Apache 1.3 was better and they should package it instead of
the very very wrong Apache 2?

I think the reaction will be the same in almost every project.


> Nevertheless the KDE 3.5 users are not trying to block KDE 4
> in any way.  It is the KDE 4 true believers who are obstructing
> KDE 3.5 at every opportunity.

If you were able to convince the KDE packagers to re-package
KDE 3.5, it would be a bad day for KDE 4, so yes, we (as in
the ones who like to see KDE 4 grow up) care.


> Now if you have nothing useful to say about KDE 3.5, please
> stop trolling this thread.

Who decides what is "useful"?
It us udeful for KDE if everybody would just focus on improving
KDE 4 instead if digging up corpses.

Anyway, good luck. Maybe you should try contacting the ones that
are still working on KDE 3 (Trinity, vectorlinux, ...) and move
this discussion there.

Regards


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Mike Bird]

On Mon May 10 2010 05:46:21 Frederik Schwarzer wrote:
> You do not dicuss problems. You just repeat and repeat
> and repeat that KDE 4 is wrong and the devs are wrong
> and that KDE 3 is better.

If you have nothing to contribute to this thread please
stop trolling.  This thread is about how to rescue KDE 3.5.

> Oh, have you already been to the Apache folks telling them,
> Apache 1.3 was better and they should package it instead of
> the very very wrong Apache 2?

Apache 2 is excellent.  The situation is not comparable.

Nor are KDE 3.5 users saying that KDE 4 should not be
packaged.  The problem is KDE 4 true believers who are
trying to prevent people from using KDE 3.5.

--Mike Bird


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan]

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 8:38 PM, Mike Bird  wrote:

> On Mon May 10 2010 05:14:57 Adrian von Bidder wrote:
> > So far most of the "discussion" has been whining about where KDE 4 is
> > perceived to be worse than KDE 3.5 and whining that "somebody should
> please
> > do something".
>
> KDE 4 has far more problems - both conceptually and in
> implementation - than KDE 3.5.  I wasn't aware that KDE 4
> had received an exemption from discussion of problems.  Every
> other package in Debian seems able to stand the heat.
>
> Nevertheless the KDE 3.5 users are not trying to block KDE 4
> in any way.  It is the KDE 4 true believers who are obstructing
> KDE 3.5 at every opportunity.
>
> Now if you have nothing useful to say about KDE 3.5, please
> stop trolling this thread.
>
> --Mike Bird
>
>

Hi Mike,

If you really care about KDE 3.5, I would suggest that you follow the
footstep of Mr. Marillat of Debian-multimedia [
http://debian-multimedia.org/ ]

Feel free to host the KDE 3.5 source and build server, and provide the
opportunity for KDE3.5 users to install it to their Debian computer by just
adding a single configuration line on /etc/apt/sources.list

If you see in the Debian-multimedia site, there are a lot of packages that
overlaps with the official Debian repository, but it does helps users (like
me) to use packages that are not really up to their liking in the official
repository.

Thanks.

-- 
Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan

Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Mike Bird]

On Mon May 10 2010 05:47:08 Dotan Cohen wrote:
> Just let them go, Adrian. When I to to fix KDE 4 for these two, I am
> "obstructing KDE 3.5 at every opportunity". Let them troll themselves
> into obscurity. At least they cannot complain that nobody tried to
> help them get the features they need into KDE 4. Well, they will
> complain about that because apparently I "ordered" them to tell me
> what is wrong with KDE 4, instead of simply deducing that out of thin
> air.

Please note the subject of this thread.  This thread is about
how users can best continue using KDE 3.5, or alternatively
where to migrate when Lenny is EOL'd.

If you'd like to fix KDE 4, it would be more productive to
work upstream.  If you'd like to poll Debian users as to what
needs fixing in KDE 4, please start a new thread.

Meanwhile, please stop trolling this thread.

--Mike Bird


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Frederik Schwarzer]

[Mike Bird - Montag 10 Mai 2010 14:57:00] 
> On Mon May 10 2010 05:46:21 Frederik Schwarzer wrote:
> > You do not dicuss problems. You just repeat and repeat
> > and repeat that KDE 4 is wrong and the devs are wrong
> > and that KDE 3 is better.
> 
> If you have nothing to contribute to this thread please
> stop trolling.  This thread is about how to rescue KDE 3.5.

Yes, Thread-Master.


> > Oh, have you already been to the Apache folks telling them,
> > Apache 1.3 was better and they should package it instead of
> > the very very wrong Apache 2?
> 
> Apache 2 is excellent.  The situation is not comparable.

Not from the beginning. Same situation.


> Nor are KDE 3.5 users saying that KDE 4 should not be
> packaged.  The problem is KDE 4 true believers who are
> trying to prevent people from using KDE 3.5.

Bullshit, nobody prevents you from anything.
Nobody supports you; that's a difference.

Hovever, me troll withdraws.

Regards


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Dotan Cohen]

On 10 May 2010 16:02, Mike Bird  wrote:
> If you'd like to poll Debian users as to what
> needs fixing in KDE 4, please start a new thread.
>

I will give you the benefit of the doubt, Mike, and I am starting such
a thread. Please contribute to it in a productive manner, as your
input as a KDE 3 user is in fact very important. I hope that Lisi, who
I had previously written off as a troll, will contribute productively
there as well. I'd like to get this whole mess back on track, and get
back to helping one another. Let's forget that this horrible thread
ever happened.

Thanks.

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Dotan Cohen]

Please tell us what problems, bugs, or issues KDE 4 that make it
difficult to use. Please be very specific so that bugs can be filed
and the software can be fixed. General statements such as "KDE4 sux"
are not welcome, as they do not give any indication as to what can be
fixed.

Comparisons to KDE 3 are welcome, but please do not simply state
"should be like KDE 3". Rather, please state how KDE 4 behaves, and
how you would prefer it to behave (even if that means describing in
detail KDE 3 behaviour).

My intention is to file issues and get bugs fixed, not to fight.
Nobody is ordered to participate in this thread, but all are welcome.


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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Re: Problem with ALC662 Intel HDA

[Valerio Passini]

Alle lunedì 10 maggio 2010, Leonardo Meira ha scritto:
> Hello everybody,
> 
> I have a problem with my sound card (nVidia Corporation MCP67 High
> Definition Audio | ALC662 High Definition Audio) and I would like you
> to indicate the best location and the best way for me to report the
> bug that I will describe:
> 
> After a fresh installation and setup of alsa, I only have sound in
> one of two outputs and the microphone does not work. After reading a
> lot of documentation about the subject, I found that inserting the
> line "options snd-hda-intel model = 3stack 6ch-index = 0" in
> alsa-base.conf file I can make my sound card work better, but with
> some problems, which are:
> 
> a) If I select the 6-channel mode (in kmix or alsa-mixer), the two
> sound outputs work but the microphone do not work.
> b) If I select the 2-channel mode (in kmix or alsa-mixer), the
> microphone works but only one sound output works.
> 
> You do not agree with me that this is a bug? I've been experiencing
> it in different distributions and several versions of the Linux
> kernel. As in several versions of ALSA.
> 
> Before you ask me, yes, I've tried all the options associated with
> ALC662 codec (
> http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/sound/alsa/HD-Audio-Mode
> ls.txt) and the option mentioned above was that worked best.
> 
> 
>  I am a novice user of Linux. So I ask you for help. How could I help
> solve this problem? What is the right place to report this bug?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Motherboard: ASUS M2N68-AM SE
> Debian Lenny
> Squeeze Debian / Sid

Hi Leonard,

Once I had a similar problem with a different brand (realtek) of the 
same chipset managed by the very same driver. I tried to change the 
options as you did, but the perfect solution came only after a few 
months of work upstream. Maybe, that your chipset is not fully supported 
at the moment.
That said, the thread you started is off-topic here considering this is 
a KDE/Debian mailing list. In fact, from your description of the issue 
you got, probably it is alsa related (you told that the problem is the 
same with kmix and alsamixer) and for this reason hardly you will get 
any help for your problem here.
Bye

Valerio


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Michael Thaler]

Hi,

> KDE 3.5 is not dead.  It has many active users and a few active
> maintainers, such as Trinity.

In 2009 KDE was around 4.7 Million lines of code [1] and had about 450 
contributors [2]. KDE 3.5 had less lines of code and less developers, but the 
numbers are the same order of magnitude. Even if you find some people that are 
willing to maintain and improve KDE 3.5, how do you want to maintain and 
improve some of million lines of code which were developed by hundreds of 
people? And you have to maintain Qt3 as well. That is just totally unrealistic.

> Please don't interfere with discussions about rescuing KDE 3.5.

I don't think it is appropriate to spam the list with your request about 
keeping KDE 3.5 in Debian Squeeze, even though the Debian KDE team decided to 
not do that. There are lots of people who like KDE 4 and are happy that the 
Debian KDE team does a really good job providing KDE 4 for Debian. I understand 
thst you do not like KDE 4. People told you what your options are and keeping 
KDE 3.5 is, for several reasons already stated, not one of them. So please do 
accept that stop spamming the list with your "Rescue KDE 3.5" requests.

Best wishes,
Michael

[1] http://blog.cornelius-schumacher.de/2009/10/4273291-lines-of-code.html
[2] http://dot.kde.org/2009/07/14/growth-metrics-kde-contributors


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Kontack and akonadi: a "dirty" workaround

[Marco Valli]

Hi all, here is a little and dirty :) workaround to have kontact and akonadi 
work at first launch - i tried all methods without success.
1) put kaddressbook in automatic start minimized and with no icon on taskbar
2) change the menu and/or panel icon to launch kontact in this way:
killall kaddressbook && kontact
Now there is no more the akonadi error on kontact startup.

A very big THANKS to Ana, Suone, Modestas and the others Debian KDE Team guys 
for their work.

Regards

-- 
Marco Valli


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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Valentin Pavlyuchenko]

Well, I have an issue that remained on my Debian system from KDE 4.3
or even 4.2 (And I have it now in 4.4).
It's a krunner freeze when typing (usually I got it when I mistype something).
If I'm not alone, then it's definitely the bug that must be solved.

--
Best regards,
Valentin Pavlyuchenko



2010/5/10 Dotan Cohen :
> Please tell us what problems, bugs, or issues KDE 4 that make it
> difficult to use. Please be very specific so that bugs can be filed
> and the software can be fixed. General statements such as "KDE4 sux"
> are not welcome, as they do not give any indication as to what can be
> fixed.
>
> Comparisons to KDE 3 are welcome, but please do not simply state
> "should be like KDE 3". Rather, please state how KDE 4 behaves, and
> how you would prefer it to behave (even if that means describing in
> detail KDE 3 behaviour).
>
> My intention is to file issues and get bugs fixed, not to fight.
> Nobody is ordered to participate in this thread, but all are welcome.
>
>
> --
> Dotan Cohen
>
> http://bido.com
> http://what-is-what.com
>
>
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>
>


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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Valerio Passini]

Alle lunedì 10 maggio 2010, Dotan Cohen ha scritto:
> Please tell us what problems, bugs, or issues KDE 4 that make it
> difficult to use. Please be very specific so that bugs can be filed
> and the software can be fixed. General statements such as "KDE4 sux"
> are not welcome, as they do not give any indication as to what can be
> fixed.
> 
> Comparisons to KDE 3 are welcome, but please do not simply state
> "should be like KDE 3". Rather, please state how KDE 4 behaves, and
> how you would prefer it to behave (even if that means describing in
> detail KDE 3 behaviour).
> 
> My intention is to file issues and get bugs fixed, not to fight.
> Nobody is ordered to participate in this thread, but all are welcome.

Probably you expect those that complained about KDE4  to write here all 
their complaints. For me KDE is good enough, but needs to be improved a 
lot in these sections:
-knetworkmanager. It fails to activate the wifi card if something shut 
it, and you need to write in konsole: ifconfig wlan0 up to work around 
this problem.
-kprinter is missing completely
-Some grouping problems in the features: why to tweak the desktop should 
I go on system-settings, while to change the wallpaper I need to right 
click on the desktop and select: Activity?
I bet that almost all of my requests are already in the bugtracking 
system, but it's something you can start with. Ciao

Valerio


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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Dotan Cohen]

On 10 May 2010 18:39, Valentin Pavlyuchenko  wrote:
> Well, I have an issue that remained on my Debian system from KDE 4.3
> or even 4.2 (And I have it now in 4.4).
> It's a krunner freeze when typing (usually I got it when I mistype something).
> If I'm not alone, then it's definitely the bug that must be solved.
>

I also would experience Krunner freezes on backspace, KDE 4.2 - 4.3,
but I cannot reproduce now on 4.4. I started 4.4 on a new ~/.kde
folder, can you try in a new user profile and report back? Thanks.

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Noah Meyerhans]

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 05:57:00AM -0700, Mike Bird wrote:
> Nor are KDE 3.5 users saying that KDE 4 should not be
> packaged.  The problem is KDE 4 true believers who are
> trying to prevent people from using KDE 3.5.

Actually, the problem is that nobody cares enough about KDE 3.5 to
actually do anything about it.  Yes, fine, there's trinity, but as far
as anybody can tell, that's just one guy.  I'm sure you could find one
guy somewhere out there still hacking on Linux 2.2 or something equally
dead.  Doesn't make it any less dead.

YES, you can have KDE 3.5!  You can even have it as an official part of
Debian!  Nobody will stop you!  However,  you will need to do some work.
You will need to make sure that there is sufficient upstream developer
committment to keep it usable and current, and you will need to make
sure there is a sufficiently motivated packaging team to keep up with
upstream work, triage bugs, and cooridinate package updates with
upstream, the the release teams, the security team, etc etc.  Can you do
that?

noah



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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Dotan Cohen]

> Probably you expect those that complained about KDE4  to write here all
> their complaints. For me KDE is good enough, but needs to be improved a
> lot in these sections:
> -knetworkmanager. It fails to activate the wifi card if something shut
> it, and you need to write in konsole: ifconfig wlan0 up to work around
> this problem.

Thanks. I know that knetworkmanager has problems, I use wicd! I'm not
sure that knetworkmanager is meant to start the wifi card, though.
I'll ask the dev and if so, I'll file an issue. Thanks.


> -kprinter is missing completely

Yes, please comment here:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=196303

> -Some grouping problems in the features: why to tweak the desktop should
> I go on system-settings, while to change the wallpaper I need to right
> click on the desktop and select: Activity?

That is being redone for KDE 4.5. I'm not certain that it will be any
better, but it will be redone. To push for the right direction, please
add your input here:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=237125


> I bet that almost all of my requests are already in the bugtracking
> system, but it's something you can start with. Ciao
>

Only one was, the other I just filed. Please comment on them both. Thanks!


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Valentin Pavlyuchenko]

Ok. If it will not help, I'll write it.

Best regards,
Valentin Pavlyuchenko



2010/5/10 Dotan Cohen :
> On 10 May 2010 18:39, Valentin Pavlyuchenko  wrote:
>> Well, I have an issue that remained on my Debian system from KDE 4.3
>> or even 4.2 (And I have it now in 4.4).
>> It's a krunner freeze when typing (usually I got it when I mistype 
>> something).
>> If I'm not alone, then it's definitely the bug that must be solved.
>>
>
> I also would experience Krunner freezes on backspace, KDE 4.2 - 4.3,
> but I cannot reproduce now on 4.4. I started 4.4 on a new ~/.kde
> folder, can you try in a new user profile and report back? Thanks.
>
> --
> Dotan Cohen
>
> http://bido.com
> http://what-is-what.com
>


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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Nate Bargmann]

Dotan,

I think you may have already responded to these in another thread but
after upgrading to 4.4 a few days ago and with a "clean" slate (by
moving .kde and some other 'dot' directories out of the way) I'm down to
one daily annoyance as you've already addressed in the BTS--Konsole
beep.

The other involves the very clumsy way by which separate wall paper may
be placed on each desktop which currently involves activating "Separate 
Desktop activities", then zooming out via the cashew, selecting the wall
paper for each desktop, and then zooming back in which is a craps shoot
as to which desktop will be where.  There was a reply to that message
about an intent to redo that particular functionality for perhaps 4.6 or
so.  It's not a show stopper but it's far from intuitive.  On the flip
side, I do like each desktop having its own activity as I can have
different folder views or other widgets on a given desktop based on how
I use it.

for *my use* I have found KDE 4.4 quite pleasant over the past few days,
perhaps aided by moving the old config directories out of the way.
Device Notifier is now useful for me due to the tip provided by another
list member in that thread.

Thanks!

- Nate >>

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

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Re: Kontack and akonadi: a "dirty" workaround

[André Wöbbeking]

Hi Marco,

On Monday 10 May 2010, Marco Valli wrote:
> Hi all, here is a little and dirty :) workaround to have kontact and
> akonadi work at first launch - i tried all methods without success.
> 1) put kaddressbook in automatic start minimized and with no icon on
> taskbar 2) change the menu and/or panel icon to launch kontact in this
> way: killall kaddressbook && kontact
> Now there is no more the akonadi error on kontact startup.

if you want a workaround, could you try to put "akonadictl start" into 
autostart?


Cheers,
André


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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Dotan Cohen]

On 10 May 2010 19:33, Nate Bargmann  wrote:
> Dotan,
>
> I think you may have already responded to these in another thread but
> after upgrading to 4.4 a few days ago and with a "clean" slate (by
> moving .kde and some other 'dot' directories out of the way) I'm down to
> one daily annoyance as you've already addressed in the BTS--Konsole
> beep.
>

Yes, and I see that you've commented on the bug:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=177861

Others affected by the issue are encouraged to comment as well!


> The other involves the very clumsy way by which separate wall paper may
> be placed on each desktop which currently involves activating "Separate
> Desktop activities", then zooming out via the cashew, selecting the wall
> paper for each desktop, and then zooming back in which is a craps shoot
> as to which desktop will be where.  There was a reply to that message
> about an intent to redo that particular functionality for perhaps 4.6 or
> so.  It's not a show stopper but it's far from intuitive.  On the flip
> side, I do like each desktop having its own activity as I can have
> different folder views or other widgets on a given desktop based on how
> I use it.
>

Actually, separate activities and separate desktops are not the same
thing! I don't use this feature and I don't want to mislead you, but
you might want to check the k...@mail.kde.org archives as it's been
discussed there. As you mention, all that will change for 4.5


> for *my use* I have found KDE 4.4 quite pleasant over the past few days,
> perhaps aided by moving the old config directories out of the way.
> Device Notifier is now useful for me due to the tip provided by another
> list member in that thread.
>

Yes, 4.2 and now 4.4 seem to behave badly without a clean ~/.kde. I
find that very disturbing and unstable.


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2010 10 May 11:50 -0500, Dotan Cohen wrote:
 
> Yes, 4.2 and now 4.4 seem to behave badly without a clean ~/.kde. I
> find that very disturbing and unstable.

For the record, I had a clean ~/.kde for 4.2 when it hit Sid about a
year ago and upgraded the offered KDE packages through 4.3.4, IIRC, and
then started with a clean ~/.kde for Sid's new 4.4.3.

- Nate >>

-- 

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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Diederik de Haas]

On 2010-05-10 Dotan Cohen wrote:
> I also would experience Krunner freezes on backspace, KDE 4.2 - 4.3,
> but I cannot reproduce now on 4.4. I started 4.4 on a new ~/.kde
> folder, can you try in a new user profile and report back? Thanks.

I have a brand new, clean install of 4.4.3 and I experience 'freezes' as well.
I've put quotes around it since it appears to freeze, ie doesn't seem to do 
anything for > 10 
seconds.
For example: Alt+F2 to start Krunner, type "kwrite"  ... doesn't seem to 
do anything.
So I start kwrite from the ALI (Lancelot in my case) and kwrite starts and then 
starts another 
instance, probably from the Krunner (since Krunner window disappears).

Other times though, it works straight away, even with the same command. So it's 
not very consistent.

Diederik


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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Iker Salmón San Millán]

I was thinking about opening a new thread to talk about the device notifier,
but i found this message so i will do it here.

I think there is something wrong with this plasmoid, there is a bug report
talking about it but it's being ignored for now.
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=226710


As you see in this picture:
http://www.esdebian.org/files/esdebian.org/u26290/notificadorescritorio.jpeg
the text stands out together with the button to unmount the device, but when
it is on the panel this does not happen, making it imposible to unmount the
device as you see in this other picture:
http://www.esdebian.org/files/esdebian.org/u26290/notificadorbarra.jpeg

At the beginning, i thougth that the problem was only related with
localication languages, but after some tests, now i have another conclusion.

I think that the position of the button, depends not only on the size of the
plasmoid, because when the plasmoid is smaller than the lengh of the text of
the mainlabel, the button is alligned right and bellow  the last letter of
the text

This also happens even when it's in english  with  low resolutions and/or
too big font sizes.  I've been reading the code of the plasmoid trying to
underestand it in order to learn how to make some changes to make the button
appear always inside the plasmoid  no matter how long the length of the text
in the "m_mainlabel" is, however  i am a newbie in this matters.  The only
thing i found is this:

"category->setAlignment(Qt::AlignRight);"

 by the way why AlignRight? if you see the first picture  i think that the
label  with the description of the device "Volumen de almacenamiento"
aligned right is not the best option.

By now, i have solved "my" problem by changing the spanish translation but i
don't think that's an elegant solution:
http://www.esdebian.org/files/esdebian.org/u26290/notificadormodificad.jpeg

as you see, when the text is short enough this problem does not appear.

cheers!

Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Marc Haber]

Hi,

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 02:46:21PM +0200, Frederik Schwarzer wrote:
> Oh, have you already been to the Apache folks telling them,
> Apache 1.3 was better and they should package it instead of
> the very very wrong Apache 2?

Apache 1.3 was continued to be supported until Apache 2 was ready for
productive use. KDE 3.5 was ditched when KDE 4.0 was little more than
a rough construction site.

How many regressions did apache 2 have when apache 1.3's support was
discontinued, and how many regressions does _current_ KDE 4 have over
KDE 3.5?

Greetings
Marc

-- 
-
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Mannheim, Germany  |  lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Dotan Cohen]

On 10 May 2010 18:39, Valentin Pavlyuchenko  wrote:
> Well, I have an issue that remained on my Debian system from KDE 4.3
> or even 4.2 (And I have it now in 4.4).
> It's a krunner freeze when typing (usually I got it when I mistype something).
> If I'm not alone, then it's definitely the bug that must be solved.
>

Please give all the detail that you can here:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=205369


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Dotan Cohen]

On 10 May 2010 20:29, Diederik de Haas  wrote:
> On 2010-05-10 Dotan Cohen wrote:
>> I also would experience Krunner freezes on backspace, KDE 4.2 - 4.3,
>> but I cannot reproduce now on 4.4. I started 4.4 on a new ~/.kde
>> folder, can you try in a new user profile and report back? Thanks.
>
> I have a brand new, clean install of 4.4.3 and I experience 'freezes' as well.
> I've put quotes around it since it appears to freeze, ie doesn't seem to do 
> anything for > 10
> seconds.
> For example: Alt+F2 to start Krunner, type "kwrite"  ... doesn't seem 
> to do anything.
> So I start kwrite from the ALI (Lancelot in my case) and kwrite starts and 
> then starts another
> instance, probably from the Krunner (since Krunner window disappears).
>
> Other times though, it works straight away, even with the same command. So 
> it's not very consistent.
>

Diederik, please mention that here:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=205369

You input is important. Thanks.


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Dotan Cohen]

2010/5/10 Iker Salmón San Millán :
> I was thinking about opening a new thread to talk about the device notifier,
> but i found this message so i will do it here.
>
> I think there is something wrong with this plasmoid, there is a bug report
> talking about it but it's being ignored for now.
> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=226710
>
>
> As you see in this picture:
> http://www.esdebian.org/files/esdebian.org/u26290/notificadorescritorio.jpeg
> the text stands out together with the button to unmount the device, but when
> it is on the panel this does not happen, making it imposible to unmount the
> device as you see in this other picture:
> http://www.esdebian.org/files/esdebian.org/u26290/notificadorbarra.jpeg
>
> At the beginning, i thougth that the problem was only related with
> localication languages, but after some tests, now i have another conclusion.
>
> I think that the position of the button, depends not only on the size of the
> plasmoid, because when the plasmoid is smaller than the lengh of the text of
> the mainlabel, the button is alligned right and bellow  the last letter of
> the text
>
> This also happens even when it's in english  with  low resolutions and/or
> too big font sizes.  I've been reading the code of the plasmoid trying to
> underestand it in order to learn how to make some changes to make the button
> appear always inside the plasmoid  no matter how long the length of the text
> in the "m_mainlabel" is, however  i am a newbie in this matters.  The only
> thing i found is this:
>
> "category->setAlignment(Qt::AlignRight);"
>
>  by the way why AlignRight? if you see the first picture  i think that the
> label  with the description of the device "Volumen de almacenamiento"
> aligned right is not the best option.
>
> By now, i have solved "my" problem by changing the spanish translation but i
> don't think that's an elegant solution:
> http://www.esdebian.org/files/esdebian.org/u26290/notificadormodificad.jpeg
>
> as you see, when the text is short enough this problem does not appear.
>
> cheers!
>

Thanks, please mention that info on the bug. And you might want to
vote for this Device Notifier feature request:
http://forum.kde.org/brainstorm.php#idea87620_page1

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Mike Bird]

On Mon May 10 2010 05:04:52 Michael Thaler wrote:
> In 2009 KDE was around 4.7 Million lines of code [1] and had about 450
> contributors [2]. KDE 3.5 had less lines of code and less developers, but
> the numbers are the same order of magnitude. Even if you find some people
> that are willing to maintain and improve KDE 3.5, how do you want to
> maintain and improve some of million lines of code which were developed by
> hundreds of people? And you have to maintain Qt3 as well. That is just
> totally unrealistic.

It may well take 450 people to turn KDE 3.5 into KDE 4.  It takes
far fewer to maintain a pre-existing, excellent, stable code base.

> I don't think it is appropriate to spam the list with your request about
> keeping KDE 3.5 in Debian Squeeze, even though the Debian KDE team decided
> to not do that. There are lots of people who like KDE 4 and are happy that
> the Debian KDE team does a really good job providing KDE 4 for Debian. I
> understand thst you do not like KDE 4. People told you what your options
> are and keeping KDE 3.5 is, for several reasons already stated, not one of
> them. So please do accept that stop spamming the list with your "Rescue KDE
> 3.5" requests.

Please don't interfere with discussions about rescuing KDE 3.5.
We're not trying to stop you from running KDE 4.  Please don't
interfere with our work.

--Mike Bird


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Steven Crooks]

On Monday 10 May 2010 20:25:25 Marc Haber wrote:
> Hi,

> How many regressions did apache 2 have when apache 1.3's support was
> discontinued, and how many regressions does _current_ KDE 4 have over
> KDE 3.5?
> 
From my point of view: None! (ok, to be honest, two or three very minor 
glitches, but they will come in one of the next releases, i'm sure)

I had way more issues in "good ol' KDE3 days", then now on 4.4.3 and i don't 
miss KDE3 in any way. It would be wasted manpower to keep KDE3 alive, as not 
even the devs nor maintainers want to spend any time "beating a dead horse".

> Greetings
> Marc

dito
Steve


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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Iker Salmón San Millán]

El 10 de mayo de 2010 20:35, Dotan Cohen  escribió:

>
> >Thanks, please mention that info on the bug. And you might want to
> >vote for this Device Notifier feature request:
> >http://forum.kde.org/brainstorm.php#idea87620_page1
>
> --
> Dotan Cohen
>
> http://bido.com
> http://what-is-what.com
>


Done, thanks Dotan

Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Florian Kulzer]

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 12:15:02 -0400, Noah Meyerhans wrote:
> On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 05:57:00AM -0700, Mike Bird wrote:
> > Nor are KDE 3.5 users saying that KDE 4 should not be
> > packaged.  The problem is KDE 4 true believers who are
> > trying to prevent people from using KDE 3.5.
> 
> Actually, the problem is that nobody cares enough about KDE 3.5 to
> actually do anything about it.  Yes, fine, there's trinity, but as far
> as anybody can tell, that's just one guy.  I'm sure you could find one
> guy somewhere out there still hacking on Linux 2.2 or something equally
> dead.  Doesn't make it any less dead.

Apropos "dead":

links -dump http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~ebarnes/python/dead-parrot.htm | \
sed -e 's/\(parrot\|bird\)/Desktop Environment/i' -e 's/purchased/downloaded/' \
-e 's/boutique/server/' -e 's/norwegian blue/KDE version 3/i' \
-e 's/plumage/usability/' -e 's/slug/Gnome/' -e 's/talk?/work?/' \
-e 's/polly/Konqi/i' -e 's/cuttle fish/QT3 widget/' -e 
's/movement/development/' \
-e 's/metabolic/multi-threaded/' -e 's/Norwegian/KDE/' -e 's/Blues/version 3 
desktops/'

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  Florian   |


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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Richard Hartmann]

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 16:08, Dotan Cohen  wrote:

> Please tell us what problems, bugs, or issues KDE 4 that make it
> difficult to use.

Good idea. The recent messages in various threads motivated me
to do Yet Another Round Of KDE 4 Bug Filing.
After all, if you don't tell people about what annoys you, how are
they supposed to know and potentially fix them?
Starting with Amarok, which is not strictly KDE, I submitted two
issues & am pasting links in here to

a) motivate others to just go ahead and file things
b) give others a chance to comment on my specific suggestions


Here goes:

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=237151
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=237155


Richard


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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[David Baron]

I am generally happy with KDE4. A few issues, though:

1. Desktop startup speed. A user with few if any widgets around will be 
satisfied. Those of us who want to use a lot of these tools will sit and wait. 
ALL widgets and panel-applets must be asynchronous and background any lengthy 
process such a searches, indexing, testing network and ports and such. ALL 
those daemons and "resources" of akonadi and nepomuk must be nicely niced and 
ioniced out of the way. If recoll's indexing can run nicely and stall nothing, 
so can kde4's stuff.

2. Activity <--> desktop? Still confused? Think of use cases rather than 
concepts which though elegant may lay on the virtual shelf. Dotan's post is a 
welcome step off the ivory tower!

3. Kmail threading. Much much improved, will still crash out occasionally when 
deleting, moving messages.

4. Untoward pauses in the UI when typing this post.

5. Kaddressbook/Akonadi has too many duplicated "resources." Kaddressbook is 
too slow to be of much use if it has a lot of data. Needs some say of handling 
contact duplication (which I got by accident and am stuck with).

6. Very old issue: KDE should respect the "system administrator"s settings of 
file permissions. If I mess up, that's my fault.

To be continued ...

BTW, distasteful expressions such as "sucks" have gotten much too common on 
these lists, are offensive and not professional!


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kde spams .xsession-erros

[Achim Schaefer]

Hi,

I've got a problem with the size of the file .xsession-erros.
It seems the 4.4.3 Version of KDE likes to spam this file.
For me it looks like this is mainly kio_impa, as I got most of the messages 
from there, but other components write her as well.

As my system is 24H up, and usually 2 user with a open kde session I get quite 
a lot of these messages.
They look like this:
...
QPainter::setPen: Painter not active
QPainter::setPen: Painter not active
QPainter::setPen: Painter not active
QPainter::end: Painter not active, aborted
QPainter::begin: Paint device returned engine == 0, type: 2
...

or  
...
kwin(3677) KWin::Workspace::setupCompositing: Compositing is turned off in 
options or disabled
kdeinit4: preparing to launch /usr/bin/kglobalaccel
Connecting to deprecated signal 
QDBusConnectionInterface::serviceOwnerChanged(QString,QString,QString)
kglobalaccel(3679) GlobalShortcutsRegistry::loadSettings: Loading group  
"kmix"
kglobalaccel(3679) GlobalShortcutsRegistry::loadSettings: Loading group  
"kwin"
kglobalaccel(3679) GlobalShortcut::setKeys: "view_zoom_out" skipping because 
key "" is already taken
...
or 
...
kio_imap4(16010)/kio_imap IMAP4Protocol::dispatch: IMAP4::dispatch - command= 
80
kio_imap4(16010)/kio_imap IMAP4Protocol::dispatch: IMAP4::dispatch - command= 
77
kio_imap4(16010)/kio_imap IMAP4Protocol::special: IMAP4Protocol::special
...

As I have no single component which is doing so, I did not know against which 
component to write a bug report.
So I thought posting here would be a good idea.
Can you help me?

Thanks

Achim


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Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Dotan Cohen]

On 6 May 2010 13:10, Marc Haber  wrote:
> I still hope that 4.4.3 will fix the krunner instabilities that were
> introduced in 4.4.
>

Marc, please mention your issue on this bug:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=205369

Thanks.

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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Re: kde spams .xsession-erros

[Frederik Schwarzer]

[Achim Schaefer - Montag 10 Mai 2010 22:17:00] 

Hi,

> I've got a problem with the size of the file .xsession-erros.
> It seems the 4.4.3 Version of KDE likes to spam this file.
> For me it looks like this is mainly kio_impa, as I got most of the messages 
> from there, but other components write her as well.

You can disable these messages (or at least many of them) with
"kdebugdialog"

Hope it helps.

Regards


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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Dotan Cohen]

On 10 May 2010 22:28, Richard Hartmann  wrote:
> On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 16:08, Dotan Cohen  wrote:
>
>> Please tell us what problems, bugs, or issues KDE 4 that make it
>> difficult to use.
>
> Good idea. The recent messages in various threads motivated me
> to do Yet Another Round Of KDE 4 Bug Filing.
> After all, if you don't tell people about what annoys you, how are
> they supposed to know and potentially fix them?
> Starting with Amarok, which is not strictly KDE, I submitted two
> issues & am pasting links in here to
>
> a) motivate others to just go ahead and file things
> b) give others a chance to comment on my specific suggestions
>
>
> Here goes:
>
> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=237151
> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=237155
>
>

Thanks, Richard. I did not even know that KDE 4 did not have a music
player manager, as Amarok 1.4 did. Thanks for filing that!



-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Dotan Cohen]

On 10 May 2010 22:43, David Baron  wrote:
> I am generally happy with KDE4. A few issues, though:
>
> 1. Desktop startup speed. A user with few if any widgets around will be
> satisfied. Those of us who want to use a lot of these tools will sit and wait.
> ALL widgets and panel-applets must be asynchronous and background any lengthy
> process such a searches, indexing, testing network and ports and such. ALL
> those daemons and "resources" of akonadi and nepomuk must be nicely niced and
> ioniced out of the way. If recoll's indexing can run nicely and stall nothing,
> so can kde4's stuff.
>

Even Gnome starts in seconds now. I agree, startup time is absurd,
especially with Akonadi.


> 2. Activity <--> desktop? Still confused? Think of use cases rather than
> concepts which though elegant may lay on the virtual shelf. Dotan's post is a
> welcome step off the ivory tower!
>

It should improve for KDE 4.5. Aaron (the head Plasma dev) recently
discussed some changes to the Activities, and the possibility of
hiding the feature in 4.5 until it is mature in 4.6.


> 3. Kmail threading. Much much improved, will still crash out occasionally when
> deleting, moving messages.
>

Really? Please file those crashes! I though that all the serious Kmail
crashers were fixed!


> 4. Untoward pauses in the UI when typing this post.
>

Can you file a bug on that? I cannot reproduce, but I am not a Kmail
user, only occasionally test it.


> 5. Kaddressbook/Akonadi has too many duplicated "resources." Kaddressbook is
> too slow to be of much use if it has a lot of data. Needs some say of handling
> contact duplication (which I got by accident and am stuck with).
>

With Akonadi (4.4)? I don't find it slow at all, and I'm pushing 500 contacts.


> 6. Very old issue: KDE should respect the "system administrator"s settings of
> file permissions. If I mess up, that's my fault.
>

Please elaborate.


> To be continued ...
>

Yes, please!


> BTW, distasteful expressions such as "sucks" have gotten much too common on
> these lists, are offensive and not professional!
>

Agreed. As a non-native English speaker who knows where the term came
from, it does make me sick.


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Frederik Schwarzer]

[Dotan Cohen - Montag 10 Mai 2010 22:39:27] 
> On 10 May 2010 22:43, David Baron  wrote:

> > 3. Kmail threading. Much much improved, will still crash out occasionally 
> > when
> > deleting, moving messages.
> >
> 
> Really? Please file those crashes! I though that all the serious Kmail
> crashers were fixed!

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=186502

Maybe this one? It happens here only with fancy header and with encapsulated 
mails.
So switching to standard header is a good workaround for me.

Regards


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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Facundo Aguilera]

El Lunes 10 Mayo 2010 11:08:40 Dotan Cohen  escribió:
> Please tell us what problems, bugs, or issues KDE 4 that make it
> difficult to use. Please be very specific so that bugs can be filed
> and the software can be fixed. General statements such as "KDE4 sux"
> are not welcome, as they do not give any indication as to what can be
> fixed.



The old problem using proxies with kopete and kmail. They do not use the 
general settings in systemsettings and can't be configured in any other way. 

Facundo


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Re: kde spams .xsession-erros

[Achim Schaefer]

Am Montag, 10. Mai 2010, 22:23:46 schrieb Frederik Schwarzer:
> [Achim Schaefer - Montag 10 Mai 2010 22:17:00]
> 
> Hi,
> 
> > I've got a problem with the size of the file .xsession-erros.
> > It seems the 4.4.3 Version of KDE likes to spam this file.
> 
> You can disable these messages (or at least many of them) with
> "kdebugdialog"
> 
Any reason why they are on by default?
I think for a stable release of debian, the default should be "off"!
So maybe this could be changed before packages go to testing?

Achim


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Modestas Vainius]

Hello,

On pirmadienis 10 Gegužė 2010 15:57:00 Mike Bird wrote:
> On Mon May 10 2010 05:46:21 Frederik Schwarzer wrote:
> > You do not dicuss problems. You just repeat and repeat
> > and repeat that KDE 4 is wrong and the devs are wrong
> > and that KDE 3 is better.
> 
> If you have nothing to contribute to this thread please
> stop trolling.  This thread is about how to rescue KDE 3.5.

Mind you, you are actually trolling on users' mailing list and achieving 
exactly nothing. Existing Debian KDE maintainers are clearly not interested in 
your efforts as neither is majority of audience on this list. So please find 
another place to "discuss" your issues where audience is actually interested 
rather than getting annoyed or tired of your behaviour. Sigh, we want old 
debian-...@lists.d.o back!

You have been exploiting the fact that the list is not moderated for some time 
already. And yes, thanks to you, now I wish KMail "Ignore Thread" feature was 
not semi-broken even if I didn't know it existed a few days ago.

-- 
Modestas Vainius 


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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Martin Steigerwald]

Am Montag 10 Mai 2010 schrieb Valentin Pavlyuchenko:
> Well, I have an issue that remained on my Debian system from KDE 4.3
> or even 4.2 (And I have it now in 4.4).
> It's a krunner freeze when typing (usually I got it when I mistype
> something). If I'm not alone, then it's definitely the bug that must
> be solved.

I read in some KDE developer blog I do not remember anymore and a hang / 
freeze of krunner might be fixed in trunk.

I have seen such a hang while typing too.

-- 
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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Martin Steigerwald]

Am Montag 10 Mai 2010 schrieb Nate Bargmann:
> * On 2010 10 May 11:50 -0500, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> > Yes, 4.2 and now 4.4 seem to behave badly without a clean ~/.kde. I
> > find that very disturbing and unstable.
> 
> For the record, I had a clean ~/.kde for 4.2 when it hit Sid about a
> year ago and upgraded the offered KDE packages through 4.3.4, IIRC, and
> then started with a clean ~/.kde for Sid's new 4.4.3.
> 
> - Nate >>

IMHO when a config setting is not handled properly on upgrade of KDE its a 
bug.

I migrated configuration from KDE 3.5.10 and just pressed on "Reset to 
defaults" for quite some appearance related settings in order to switch 
them to Oxygen. There have been issues, but I mostly didn't file them as 
bugs.

Only one I triaged and filed: The separator "58" for colon for web 
shortcuts in kuriikwsrc or something like that it was is not recognized by 
KRunner, only by Konqueror. ":" instead works with both. Unfortunately 
Konqueror saved it as "58" not as ":".

Anyway I suggest to file those issues as concrete as possible as bugs as 
you manage to take time for it.

-- 
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Richard Hartmann]

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 22:39, Dotan Cohen  wrote:

> Really? Please file those crashes! I though that all the serious Kmail
> crashers were fixed!

Speaking of which... As you are a walking bug filofax:
Even though I have to say the d word.. What is the state of
disconnected IMAP? Still killing a few thousands emails
sometimes, as with KDE 3?


Richard


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Power Profile Actions

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

Is there any way as an adimistrator or user to customize the actions available 
in the "When ..." drop-downs under ksystemsettings -> "Advanced" -> "Power 
Management" -> "Edit Profiles" -> "Actions"?

I find that /usr/sbin/s2both works fine on my system and is my preferred way 
to shut the system down.  Unfortunately, none of the existing actions (appear 
to) "Suspend to both Disk and RAM".

Doing a s2both takes longer than a s2ram, but it comes back nearly as quickly.  
It also handles the case of me running out of batteries while the system is 
suspended quite well.

Perhaps this is covered on Techbase; I haven't looked yet.
-- 
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.   ,= ,-_-. =.
b...@iguanasuicide.net  ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Martin Steigerwald]

Hi Mike!

Am Montag 10 Mai 2010 schrieb Mike Bird:
> On Mon May 10 2010 05:47:08 Dotan Cohen wrote:
> > Just let them go, Adrian. When I to to fix KDE 4 for these two, I am
> > "obstructing KDE 3.5 at every opportunity". Let them troll themselves
> > into obscurity. At least they cannot complain that nobody tried to
> > help them get the features they need into KDE 4. Well, they will
> > complain about that because apparently I "ordered" them to tell me
> > what is wrong with KDE 4, instead of simply deducing that out of thin
> > air.
> 
> Please note the subject of this thread.  This thread is about
> how users can best continue using KDE 3.5, or alternatively
> where to migrate when Lenny is EOL'd.

What do you want to achieve in this thread on this debian-kde user support 
mailinglist?

Resurrecting KDE 3.5 for Debian?

Well did you?

If not, I suggest you to try it elsewhere.

Possible places are:

- debian-qt-...@lists.debian.org since that is where development of Debian 
KDE packages is coordinated

- Trinity Desktop Environment / Vector Linux

This is for KDE user support. KDE 3.5 in Lenny. KDE 4 in Squeeze unless 
someone - except the current Debian KDE / Qt developer team - does and 
maintains KDE 3.5 packages that are co-installable and meet Debians high 
packaging standards.

This list is not for development issues like developing / maintaining KDE 
3.5 packages for Squeeze.

So IMHO any further request for KDE 3.5 in Squeeze is off topic on this 
list as Debian KDE/Qt maintainers repeatedly said they won't.

You want KDE 3.5 for Squeeze? Spend your energy towards that goal. Here it 
apparently does not change the situation.

Ciao,
-- 
Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de
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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

On Monday 10 May 2010 17:02:35 Richard Hartmann wrote:
> On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 22:39, Dotan Cohen  wrote:
> > Really? Please file those crashes! I though that all the serious Kmail
> > crashers were fixed!
> 
> Speaking of which... As you are a walking bug filofax:
> Even though I have to say the d word.. What is the state of
> disconnected IMAP? Still killing a few thousands emails
> sometimes, as with KDE 3?

I didn't have it hit me in KDE 3.

I use multiple disconnected IMAP accounts and have without issue since 4.2 
entered Sid.
-- 
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b...@iguanasuicide.net  ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Mike Bird]

On Mon May 10 2010 14:41:26 Modestas Vainius wrote:
> Mind you, you are actually trolling on users' mailing list and achieving
> exactly nothing. Existing Debian KDE maintainers are clearly not interested
> in your efforts as neither is majority of audience on this list. So please
> find another place to "discuss" your issues where audience is actually
> interested rather than getting annoyed or tired of your behaviour. Sigh, we
> want old debian-...@lists.d.o back!

There is no requirement that any thread interest a majority of list
subscribers.  This thread, like most Debian threads, is of interest
to a substantial number of Debian users.

You are free to ignore this thread.

You are not free to disrupt this thread.

And please learn how not to CC people when replying to the list.
Why do KDE 4 acolytes keep doing that?

--Mike Bird


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Mike Bird]

On Mon May 10 2010 15:20:52 Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> This list is not for development issues like developing / maintaining KDE
> 3.5 packages for Squeeze.
>
> So IMHO any further request for KDE 3.5 in Squeeze is off topic on this
> list as Debian KDE/Qt maintainers repeatedly said they won't.

Please don't lie.  This list is for "Discussions related to KDE in Debian.
Those developing KDE-based packages are encouraged to use this to discuss
issues and share their experience."
http://lists.debian.org/debian-kde/

--Mike Bird


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Frederik Schwarzer]

[Mike Bird - Dienstag 11 Mai 2010 00:40:25] 
> On Mon May 10 2010 15:20:52 Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > This list is not for development issues like developing / maintaining KDE
> > 3.5 packages for Squeeze.
> >
> > So IMHO any further request for KDE 3.5 in Squeeze is off topic on this
> > list as Debian KDE/Qt maintainers repeatedly said they won't.
> 
> Please don't lie.

It is technically impossible to lie if stating an opinion.

Regards


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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Frederik Schwarzer]

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. - Dienstag 11 Mai 2010 00:25:54] 
> On Monday 10 May 2010 17:02:35 Richard Hartmann wrote:
> > On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 22:39, Dotan Cohen  wrote:
> > > Really? Please file those crashes! I though that all the serious Kmail
> > > crashers were fixed!
> > 
> > Speaking of which... As you are a walking bug filofax:
> > Even though I have to say the d word.. What is the state of
> > disconnected IMAP? Still killing a few thousands emails
> > sometimes, as with KDE 3?
> 
> I didn't have it hit me in KDE 3.
> 
> I use multiple disconnected IMAP accounts and have without issue since 4.2 
> entered Sid.

There were issues with data loss when using DIMAP.

However, there was some work done with that regard.
Read the last few comments here:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=140443

But I do not know if anyone really confirmed that those problems are gone.

Regards


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Richard Hartmann]

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 00:43, Frederik Schwarzer  wrote:

> It is technically impossible to lie if stating an opinion.

If I prefer vanilla and say "I prefer chocolate", I lie.

I hope I could light the whole situation up with that :)


Now, to be serious once again:
This whole thing is obviously loaded with emotions on both sides.
Having crossed the line of "KDE 4 is good enough for general
use" just recently, I think I can understand both sides.
Especially as I can see several reasons why each "side" would
be annoyed and tired because of the "other" side's recurring
arguments. Let's face it, neither "side" is contributing anything
new or interesting, at this point.

Tiredness leads to anger. Anger leads to agressiveness.
Agressiveness leads to ad hominem attacks.

There have been statements on both sides which were a
lot less than ideal, but as they can not be taken back there
is not much use crying over this specific spilt milk.

Long story short:

Stopping the fruitless back and forth which has developed
a life of its own is the first step in a positive direction.
Stop, breathe deeply, count to ten and just delete
whatever you might have sent.

I suggest that each "side" limits themselves solely to
constructive postings in their respective threads and
don't post in the other's threads.


And now, I sleep :)
Richard


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

[Modestas Vainius]

Hello,

On antradienis 11 Gegužė 2010 02:17:17 Richard Hartmann wrote:
> Now, to be serious once again:
> This whole thing is obviously loaded with emotions on both sides.
> Having crossed the line of "KDE 4 is good enough for general
> use" just recently, I think I can understand both sides.
> Especially as I can see several reasons why each "side" would
> be annoyed and tired because of the "other" side's recurring
> arguments. Let's face it, neither "side" is contributing anything
> new or interesting, at this point.

The difference is that one side is actually doing some work and giving it away 
for free in all possible senses to the other side while the latter is just 
whining and demanding more. This is a bit annoying but that's life.

I agree that the only solution is not to feed the troll.

-- 
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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[godo]

Few thing's that I really ned or miss me from KDE 3:

Konsole Profiles widget -there is only Shell. In 3 was Root Shell, 
Python Shell etc.


Info/Error Message -in 3 you can select and copy in 4 only in certain 
cases, and that is more than important if you have some big nasty line.


Konqueror -system:/ in 3 gives you list of all your hard disk's and 
external memory in 4 doesn't exist.
Storage media 
https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Kde3/Karmic?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=sm_kde3_5_karmic_livecd_konqueror.png
When you click it is system:/media/ 
http://dobosevic.com/Vijesti_i_Novosti/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/simply_mepis_02.png


KDE dragon pic in logout window :-) 
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/48/Kdelogout.png


Working knetworkmannager. Somebody sad something about that. In 3 almost 
never have any problem in 4 can't remember WiFi password, says for my 
connection that is insecure and it is WPA-PSK for other network says 
correctly WPA-PSK, can't connect to hidden SSID, doesn't scan hidden SSID.


--
Bye,
Goran Dobosevic
Hrvatski: www.dobosevic.com
 English: www.dobosevic.com/en/
Registered Linux User #503414


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disconnected IMAP and Task bug

[John Schmidt]

Hi,

I am experiencing this bug with kdepim 4:4.4.3-1 from unstable.

http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=232568

Has anyone else had this problem?

I have found that altering any task, whether it is checking the completed task 
check box, or altering the percent completed causes an endless loop of 
synchronizations.  

I started to compare the kdepim 4.3.1 and 4.4.3 code bases for the korganizer 
task but nothing was jumping out at me.  

Right now, using the Tasks feature (Todo list) is pretty harrowing with 
disconected imap.  I always have to restart kontact when the synchronization 
looping starts up.

Thanks,

John Schmidt


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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Adrian von Bidder]

Dotan,

On Monday 10 May 2010 18.12:46 Dotan Cohen wrote:
> I started 4.4 on a new ~/.kde
> folder, can you try in a new user profile and report back?

I hate it when this shows up.  Yes, it's probably easier to debug, but often 
bugs *do* show up that don't happen anymore when I remove my ~/.kde 
directory, but this doesn't really help the user who has the bug.  
Unfortunately, the end result is very often that removing ~/.kde and 
starting from scratch becomes the only solution that is "officially" 
recommended.

Fine.  Except that reconfiguring my desktop to how I want it takes ages.  I 
use offline IMAP and have 100s of MB of email in my ~/.kde that will need to 
be re-downloaded.  And stuff like the calendar etc. is in there, too.  And 
the nepomuk database etc.

So yes, KDE people may well want to know if a bug happens on old 
configurations only or if it happens on new configurations, but I think 
there's an attitude problem here: KDE needs to become MUCH better at dealing 
with unexpected input from its configuration.  (I don't have a precise 
example right now; I'll try to report this kind of issue when I see it next.  
Admittedly, KDE has improved in this area as well.)

cheers
-- vbi

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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[Adrian von Bidder]

On Monday 10 May 2010 16.08:40 Dotan Cohen wrote:
> Please tell us what problems, bugs, or issues KDE 4 that make it
> difficult to use.

Nepomuk / Strigi need to improve a *lot*.

* Strigi sucks up all disk bandwidth and, given enough time, all memory to 
the point where the oom kill kills my session.
* Strigi index uses all my disk.  Removing folders that were indexed (either 
removing these files, or removing them from the strigi configuration so 
they're not indexed anymore) didn't seem to have any effect on index size.
* Likewise when I completely disable file indexing: the database doesn't 
shrink / isn't removed.

I'd really like to use file indexing, but everytime I enable it, I quickly 
turn it off again :-(

cheers
-- vbi

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Re: What needs to improve in KDE 4?

[cobaco]

On Tuesday 11 May 2010, Adrian von Bidder wrote:
> Dotan,
> 
> On Monday 10 May 2010 18.12:46 Dotan Cohen wrote:
> > I started 4.4 on a new ~/.kde
> > folder, can you try in a new user profile and report back?
> 
> I hate it when this shows up.  Yes, it's probably easier to debug, but
> often bugs *do* show up that don't happen anymore when I remove my
> ~/.kde directory, but this doesn't really help the user who has the bug.
> Unfortunately, the end result is very often that removing ~/.kde and
> starting from scratch becomes the only solution that is "officially"
> recommended.

read remove as 'move temporarily out of the way', this is just the first 
step in localizing the problem: if it doesn't get rid of the problem then 
we've established conclusively that the bug is not triggered by something in 
your personal settings.

If the problem doesn't persist when removing kde then you either:
a) start afresh, and forget about it
b) start from last good backup (assuming you have one, most home users 
seemingly don't)
c) work on localizing the problem further by starting to move parts of your 
old .kde into your new empty .kde (in order to find which configuration file 
triggers the problem). Once you've localized the problem this way, you'll be 
able to give the devs enough info to reproduce your problem, thus enabling 
them to start looking for the underlying cause.

c is the way to help with improving kde, but ofc you need to have the time 
for it

> Fine.  Except that reconfiguring my desktop to how I want it takes ages. 
> I use offline IMAP and have 100s of MB of email in my ~/.kde that will
> need to be re-downloaded.  And stuff like the calendar etc. is in there,
> too.  And the nepomuk database etc.

take procedure b or c above to avoid this?
-- 
Cheers, Cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis)


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