Re: Problems Upgrading To Woody

[Anthony Towns]

On Tue, May 29, 2001 at 12:43:28PM -0500, Robert Tilley wrote:
> This morning I decided to ask for help from the group.  Where are some 
> instructions on safely and cleanly upgrading to Woody?  I know I can play 
> around with my sources.list and apt-get but I would like to read some 
> documentation that tells where to point apt-get and what procedure to follow.

It's quite easy: point apt at testing, type apt-get dist-upgrade, wait,
find all the problems that got caused, and fix them.

See? Piece of cake. :)

There are a couple of things to note: testing (woody) isn't a
stable released version of Debian. It'll have lots and lots of bugs,
installation and upgrading will be difficult, and something that works
one day mightn't work the next day. In short: it's not you; upgrading to
testing or unstable can and does require information that's not obvious
and mightn't even be readily available. If you're not pretty clued up,
and willing and able to recover from weird and confusing bugs on your own,
using anything other than stable mightn't be for you.

If you figure it is, OTOH, you should be able to get X4 and KDE working
(to some extent) without *too* much hassle. The main problems with X4
is that the packages have been reorganised and many of their names have
changed, and that the configuration file's changed. Playing around in
dselect or with apt-get to make sure you've got all the packages you need
(particularly xserver-xfree86, I'd guess), and trying various things
to make sure you end up with an X configuration file ("dpkg-reconfigure
xserver-common" might do it), should get you most of the way. Once you've
got X4 working, I think KDE should be a piece of cake.

It's not necessarily for the faint of heart though. If you want to wait
'til its fixed and clean and documented, you'll need to wait 'til woody's
released, or at least, nearly so.

Cheers,
aj

-- 
Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred.

``_Any_ increase in interface difficulty, in exchange for a benefit you
  do not understand, cannot perceive, or don't care about, is too much.''
  -- John S. Novak, III (The Humblest Man on the Net)


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Re: Testing and KDE

[Anthony Towns]

On Sat, May 19, 2001 at 11:07:19AM +0200, Martin Juhlin wrote:
> It's more or less one only kdelibs and kdebase. Packages like  kdeadmin, 
> kdesdk, kdemultimedia, koffice, kdegraphics, kdeutils, kdetoys, kdegames and 
> task-kde is not in testing yet. 

kdeadmin, kdegraphics, kdeutils, kdetoys should be in as of tomorrow too.

kdesdk is broken: kdesdk.deb is arch: all and depends on kbabel and
such, which are arch: any, but aren't built for alpha, arm, m68k or
powerpc. kdesdk.deb is thus uninstallable on those architectures, and
testing rejects it for that reason.

kdemultimedia is mysterious. :-/

koffice is too recent at the moment.

kdegames is waiting on an arm rebuild, which was waiting on a kdelibs
rebuild, but should now be ready to go.

Cheers,
aj

-- 
Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred.

``_Any_ increase in interface difficulty, in exchange for a benefit you
  do not understand, cannot perceive, or don't care about, is too much.''
  -- John S. Novak, III (The Humblest Man on the Net)

Re: WM (KDE) themes - current plan

[Ben Burton]

> However, "is looking similar to one" a big problem ? If so, sawmill
> seems to contain a theme that resembles QNX, for example.

The only response so far I've had from debian-legal on this issue:

[ begin quote ]

This was a large issue several years ago, when a number companies
sued each other for infringement of copyright on the "look and feel"
of their products.  The FSF organized a boycott of (at least?) one
of the companies involved, and it was a hot issue for a while.
The FSF might still have material about it on their web site.

I think the suits were dropped and there was no real resolution in
a legal sense, but the general conclusion in the industry was that
the "look and feel" of a product was not bound by copyright -- at
least, I haven't heard of anyone even trying to sue over that since.

Note that building a theme that "looks similar" is different from
actually copying graphics and icons.  The graphics have their own
copyright, and if they're complex (such as in a Star Wars theme),
it might be difficult to make new ones that look similar without
in the process creating derived works.

In some cases, if the theme contains logos or product names, you
might also run into trademark law.

Richard Braakman
(Occasionally has lunch with a lawyer)

[ end quote ]

Ben.

-- 

Ben Burton
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://baasil.humbug.org.au/bab/
Public Key: finger [EMAIL PROTECTED]

As long as war is regarded as wicked it will always have its fascinations.
When it is looked upon as vulgar, it will cease to be popular.
- Oscar Wilde

Re: Testing and KDE

[Ben Burton]

> kdesdk is broken: kdesdk.deb is arch: all and depends on kbabel and
> such, which are arch: any, but aren't built for alpha, arm, m68k or
> powerpc. kdesdk.deb is thus uninstallable on those architectures, and
> testing rejects it for that reason.

Hi.. to ask a stupid question, is this something I (kdesdk maintainer) need 
to address?  Currently the kdesdk source produces a number of Architecture: 
all packages (including kdesdk) and a number of Architecture: any packages 
(including kbabel, etc).  Everything the binary kdesdk depends on is other 
binaries from the kdesdk source.

Or is it something the autobuilders need to address?

Thanks,
Ben.

-- 

Ben Burton
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://baasil.humbug.org.au/bab/
Public Key: finger [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Each time that one loves is the only time one has ever loved. Difference
of object does not alter singleness of passion. It merely intensifies it.
We can have but one great experience at best, and the secret of life is
to reproduce that experience as often as possible.
- Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray

Re: Testing and KDE

[Martin Juhlin]

onsdagen den 30 maj 2001 18:00 skrev Anthony Towns:
> On Sat, May 19, 2001 at 11:07:19AM +0200, Martin Juhlin wrote:
> > It's more or less one only kdelibs and kdebase. Packages like  kdeadmin,
> > kdesdk, kdemultimedia, koffice, kdegraphics, kdeutils, kdetoys, kdegames
> > and task-kde is not in testing yet.
>
> kdeadmin, kdegraphics, kdeutils, kdetoys should be in as of tomorrow too.

Great :-)

> kdesdk is broken: kdesdk.deb is arch: all and depends on kbabel and
> such, which are arch: any, but aren't built for alpha, arm, m68k or
> powerpc. kdesdk.deb is thus uninstallable on those architectures, and
> testing rejects it for that reason.
>
> kdemultimedia is mysterious. :-/

Maybe it's depends on newer package? Noatun seams to depend on kdelibs3 >= 
4:2.1.2-0 (4:2.1.1-7 is in testing) and libqt2 >= 2:2.3.0-final-2 (currently 
2:2.3.0-final-1). see http://packages.debian.org/unstable/sound/noatun.html

There is probably more ... :-/

Martin

Re: To: John Gay

[Scott E. Graves]

Robert Tilley wrote:
Regarding upgrading a Potato Debian to Woody, I beseech you for aid!
 

Given your hints that there is a point in the installation process 
where you can choose to install Woody instead of Potato, I wiped my 
disk for the third time and proceeded with a reinstall.

 

Failure.  I noticed no point which was an opportunity to install Woody 
and ended up with a Potato box again.  I quickly fixed LILO to let me 
get back to Windows 2000 so I could e-mail this message.

 

I read over the installation manual included on the Debian CD in both 
HTML and PDF format with no enlightenment occurring.

 

Mommy, make Debian give me Woody!  Bahahaha -- Yes, I'm almost at the 
point of tears, at least metaphorically speaking.

 

Robert
 

P.S.  Nor can I find a document entitled "How To Select Potato / Woody 
/ Sid" on GNU/Debian.

 

P.P.S.  Could you please send me your e-mail address again as the 
previous mail is on my Linux partition.

First of all, 90% of the time woody is broken. If it's a leading-edge 
dist you're looking for, use sid. Your system coulkd be rendered useless 
ussing the woody tree.

kde2.2 alpha2

[Maximilian Reiss]

since it is out, is there any source to get the debs?

Max

artsd + esd + xmms CAN work at the same time =)

[Chris Boyle]

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I would suggest the problem is that some programs are using artsd (the KDE 
sound server) and others are not. XMMS might be, depending on whether you're 
using the aRts output plugin. If all programs use artsd, they can play sounds 
at the same time and artsd will mix them. This is the method I use.

Applications not written with artsd in mind can be made to use it with 
artsdsp, which intercepts the audio, see the man page. A similar thing can be 
achieved with esd and esddsp. AFAIK all kde2 apps will use artsd and all 
gnome apps will use esd. Actually you can have _everything_ working by 
wrapping esd in artsd as follows (it works the other way around too):

* Make sure artsd is running (i.e. check "start sound server" in the KDE 
control panel). Check with "ps auxww |grep artsd".

* Use the xmms aRts output plugin (available from xmms.org).

* Wrap esd in artsd by renaming /usr/bin/esd to /usr/bin/esd.real (debian 
users can use dpkg-divert to make any upgrades use esd.real), and putting the 
following in /usr/bin/esd (don't forget to chmod 755):

#!/bin/bash
exec /usr/bin/artsdsp /usr/bin/esd.real "$@"

I've done this, and now xmms, everybuddy, and kde2 apps like konsole can all 
play sounds at the same time! The only thing that doesn't work is quake. I've 
so far had no luck wrapping it in anything. You just have to wait for artsd 
to release the device or do killall artsd and restart it when you're done.

Hope this helps someone... =)

- -- 
Chris Boyle - Winchester College - http://archives.wincoll.ac.uk/
For my PGP key visit: http://archives.wincoll.ac.uk/finger.php?q=chrisb
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Re: To: John Gay

[Chris Boyle]

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On Wednesday 30 May 2001  9:02 pm, Scott E. Graves wrote:
> First of all, 90% of the time woody is broken. If it's a leading-edge
> dist you're looking for, use sid. Your system coulkd be rendered useless
> ussing the woody tree.

Huh? I've had two systems on woody for _AGES_. They both started from potato, 
then I just added the woody line and picked my way through the mess with 
dselect. (aside: I've since switched to aptitude. What's the recommended 
console front-end to apt atm? Deity? Is that at all stable / usable?)

Every so often I find I have to hold a group of packages while dependent 
packages get uploaded, e.g. all apache-related stuff at the moment as php4 
and friends still want an old version (and all apt stuff for aptitude 
similarly), but for the most part it seems to work. Am I missing something 
here?

- -- 
Chris Boyle - Winchester College - http://archives.wincoll.ac.uk/
For my PGP key visit: http://archives.wincoll.ac.uk/finger.php?q=chrisb
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Re: To: John Gay

[csj]

On Thursday 31 May 2001 04:02, Scott E. Graves wrote:

> First of all, 90% of the time woody is broken. If it's a
> leading-edge dist you're looking for, use sid. Your system coulkd
> be rendered useless ussing the woody tree.

But woody is sid + a couple of of (critical?) bug-free days. Woody 
should in principle be more stable than sid. Only problem I see is 
the security updates.

autoconf2.13 vs. autoconf

[Debian User]

What's the difference between autoconf2.13 and plain autoconf? The 
former is mentioned in the Build-Depends for kdelibs. My version of 
plain autoconf is already 2.13.

Re: autoconf2.13 vs. autoconf

[Gordon Sadler]

On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 07:09:56AM +0800, Debian User wrote:
> What's the difference between autoconf2.13 and plain autoconf? The 
> former is mentioned in the Build-Depends for kdelibs. My version of 
> plain autoconf is already 2.13.
> 
It's a sid thing. If you are running unstable, autoconf 2.50 recently
was released. Due to some changes/compatibility with previous
configure.in scripts written for 2.13 there are now two packages for
autoconf.

If you have autoconf at version 2.13 from potato/woody it should work
fine. However, if you have autoconf 2.13 from sid you should upgrade.
You'll end up with :
autoconf 2.50-6
autoconf2.13 2.13-33

There is a wrapper script so any calls to auto programs invoke the
correct version.

-- 
Gordon Sadler

Re: Testing and KDE

[Anthony Towns]

On Wed, May 30, 2001 at 09:49:24PM +0200, Martin Juhlin wrote:
> > kdemultimedia is mysterious. :-/
> Maybe it's depends on newer package? Noatun seams to depend on kdelibs3 >= 
> 4:2.1.2-0 (4:2.1.1-7 is in testing) and libqt2 >= 2:2.3.0-final-2 (currently 
> 2:2.3.0-final-1). see http://packages.debian.org/unstable/sound/noatun.html

Nope, it actually depends on older packages on powerpc; the obsolete "arts"
package, in particular. Powerpc needs to do a rebuild, and looks like it
probably will fairly shortly.

Cheers,
aj

-- 
Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred.

``_Any_ increase in interface difficulty, in exchange for a benefit you
  do not understand, cannot perceive, or don't care about, is too much.''
  -- John S. Novak, III (The Humblest Man on the Net)


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