Re: debian-edu-doc: reworking content of binary packages
hi, On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 12:45:24AM +0200, Wolfgang Schweer wrote: > starting a separate thread for this topic. appreciated! > After looking at the latest progress regarding translations done on > Weblate (thanks to Frans keeping those in sync) and checking the > translation status of all translations, these binary packages could be > built (contained manuals in brackets): > > debian-edu-doc-da(bullseye, buster) > debian-edu-doc-de(bullseye, buster) > debian-edu-doc-en(bullseye, buster) > debian-edu-doc-es(bullseye, buster) > debian-edu-doc-fr(bullseye, buster) > debian-edu-doc-it(bullseye, buster) > debian-edu-doc-ja(bullseye, buster) > debian-edu-doc-nb(bullseye, buster) > debian-edu-doc-nl(bullseye, buster) > debian-edu-doc-pl(bullseye, buster) ¹) > debian-edu-doc-ro(bullseye, buster) ¹) > debian-edu-doc-sv(bullseye, buster) ¹) > debian-edu-doc-zh-cn (bullseye, buster) ¹) ²) are these translations all meaningfully complete? as in at least 80 or 90% of the strings translated? > New packages containing legacy manuals: same question as above :) > Any objections to proceed like this? Other proposals? sounds great, modulo the question above. thanks for working on this! -- cheers, Holger --- holger@(debian|reproducible-builds|layer-acht).org PGP fingerprint: B8BF 5413 7B09 D35C F026 FE9D 091A B856 069A AA1C Dance like no one's watching. Encrypt like everyone is. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: debian-edu-doc: reworking content of binary packages
[ Holger Levsen, 2020-08-11 ] > On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 12:45:24AM +0200, Wolfgang Schweer wrote: > > After looking at the latest progress regarding translations done on > > Weblate (thanks to Frans keeping those in sync) and checking the > > translation status of all translations, these binary packages could > > be built (contained manuals in brackets): > > > > debian-edu-doc-da(bullseye, buster) > > debian-edu-doc-de(bullseye, buster) > > debian-edu-doc-en(bullseye, buster) > > debian-edu-doc-es(bullseye, buster) > > debian-edu-doc-fr(bullseye, buster) > > debian-edu-doc-it(bullseye, buster) > > debian-edu-doc-ja(bullseye, buster) > > debian-edu-doc-nb(bullseye, buster) > > debian-edu-doc-nl(bullseye, buster) > > debian-edu-doc-pl(bullseye, buster) ¹) > > debian-edu-doc-ro(bullseye, buster) ¹) > > debian-edu-doc-sv(bullseye, buster) ¹) > > debian-edu-doc-zh-cn (bullseye, buster) ¹) ²) > are these translations all meaningfully complete? as in at least 80 or > 90% of the strings translated? No. Even debian-edu-doc-zh (added about three years ago) is now at only 71% (bullseye) resp. 82% (buster); iirc about 50% of the strings had been translated at the time the zh binary package has been added. See also, back then: https://lists.debian.org/debian-edu/2017/09/msg9.html See the translation status overview on weblate: https://hosted.weblate.org/projects/debian-edu-documentation/debian-edu-bullseye/ https://hosted.weblate.org/projects/debian-edu-documentation/debian-edu-buster/ > > New packages containing legacy manuals: > > same question as above :) See: https://hosted.weblate.org/projects/debian-edu-documentation/audacity/ https://hosted.weblate.org/projects/debian-edu-documentation/debian-edu-itil/ https://hosted.weblate.org/projects/debian-edu-documentation/rosegarden/ These percentages seem to be string related, I figure. So they might be comparable to the information obtained running 'make status' (with the percentages to be calculated manually). That said, with a string translation limit of at least 80%, only these translations would be qualified for shipping: debian-edu-bullseye-manual.da.po: 994 translated messages, 176 fuzzy translations, 40 untranslated messages. debian-edu-bullseye-manual.de.po: 1210 translated messages. debian-edu-bullseye-manual.fr.po: 1031 translated messages, 159 fuzzy translations, 20 untranslated messages. debian-edu-bullseye-manual.it.po: 1016 translated messages, 174 fuzzy translations, 20 untranslated messages. debian-edu-bullseye-manual.ja.po: 1016 translated messages, 174 fuzzy translations, 20 untranslated messages. debian-edu-bullseye-manual.nb.po: 1005 translated messages, 205 fuzzy translations. debian-edu-bullseye-manual.nl.po: 1210 translated messages. debian-edu-buster-manual.da.po: 1334 translated messages, 37 fuzzy translations, 21 untranslated messages. debian-edu-buster-manual.de.po: 1392 translated messages. debian-edu-buster-manual.fr.po: 1390 translated messages, 1 fuzzy translation, 1 untranslated message. debian-edu-buster-manual.it.po: 1390 translated messages, 1 fuzzy translation, 1 untranslated message. debian-edu-buster-manual.ja.po: 1330 translated messages, 61 fuzzy translations, 1 untranslated message. debian-edu-buster-manual.nb.po: 1296 translated messages, 95 fuzzy translations, 1 untranslated message. debian-edu-buster-manual.nl.po: 1392 translated messages. debian-edu-buster-manual.zh-cn.po: 1143 translated messages, 1 fuzzy translation, 248 untranslated messages. rosegarden-manual.fr.po: 684 translated messages. rosegarden-manual.nb.po: 684 translated messages. rosegarden-manual.nl.po: 684 translated messages. audacity-manual.fr.po: 124 translated messages, 8 fuzzy translations, 9 untranslated messages. audacity-manual.nb.po: 141 translated messages. audacity-manual.nl.po: 141 translated messages. audacity-manual.pt-br.po: 141 translated messages. debian-edu-itil-manual.nb.po: 1535 translated messages. debian-edu-itil-manual.nl.po: 1535 translated messages. IMO this would de-motivate translators to some extent... Wolfgang signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Filtering out some untranslatable strings
Hi Wolfgang Frans Spiesschaert schreef op ma 10-08-2020 om 20:44 [+0200]: > Hi Wolfgang, > > Wolfgang Schweer schreef op ma 10-08-2020 om 00:51 [+0200]: > > I've just tested the snippet that Frans has provided (slightly > > modified > > version copied to the end of scripts/get_manual). > > > > The script produces the stripped XML file like expected and also > > generates > > the POT and all PO files, if 'make update' is run in a manual > > directory > > including po4a.cfg containing a manual specific pot_in line. > > > > So far, so good. > > > > But then, nothing seems to be gained: running 'make status' shows a > > lot > > of fuzzy and even a few untranslated strings for PO files that before > > had been fully translated. > > What a pity. It would have been too good to be true, I guess :( Fortunately, the problem turned out not to be that difficult to solve. The po4a configuration needs one additional adjustment. Since we only strip the image names and not the entire inline media objects, we still need to tell po4a that the inlinemediaobject tag is untranslated. I add an updated po4a.cfg, suitable for debian-edu-bullseye. -- Kind regards, Frans Spiesschaert [po_directory] . [type: docbook] debian-edu-bullseye-manual.xml \ pot_in:debian-edu-bullseye-manual-stripped.xml \ $lang:$lang.xml \ add_$lang:?./$lang.add \ opt:"-o nodefault='' -o untranslated='' -M UTF-8 -k 15"
Re: debian-edu-doc: reworking content of binary packages
Wolfgang Schweer schreef op di 11-08-2020 om 11:48 [+0200]: > [ Holger Levsen, 2020-08-11 ] > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 12:45:24AM +0200, Wolfgang Schweer wrote: > > > After looking at the latest progress regarding translations done on > > > Weblate (thanks to Frans keeping those in sync) and checking the > > > translation status of all translations, these binary packages could > > > be built (contained manuals in brackets): > > > > > > debian-edu-doc-da(bullseye, buster) > > > debian-edu-doc-de(bullseye, buster) > > > debian-edu-doc-en(bullseye, buster) > > > debian-edu-doc-es(bullseye, buster) > > > debian-edu-doc-fr(bullseye, buster) > > > debian-edu-doc-it(bullseye, buster) > > > debian-edu-doc-ja(bullseye, buster) > > > debian-edu-doc-nb(bullseye, buster) > > > debian-edu-doc-nl(bullseye, buster) > > > debian-edu-doc-pl(bullseye, buster) ¹) > > > debian-edu-doc-ro(bullseye, buster) ¹) > > > debian-edu-doc-sv(bullseye, buster) ¹) > > > debian-edu-doc-zh-cn (bullseye, buster) ¹) ²) > > are these translations all meaningfully complete? as in at least 80 or > > 90% of the strings translated? In my opinion it is hard to tell when a translation is meaningfully complete. We have an informal internal point of reference, in that we agreed upon a threshold of 15% of translated strings before a new translation at weblate is allowed to enter the master branch. An external point of reference could be the default po4a threshold of 80% translated strings, although it is advised to lower this threshold a bit when oen uses the untranslated feature of po4a, as we are planning to do in the future. In favour of a high translation level is the fact that when someone is in need of a translation, a poor translation level would turn out to be very disappointing to that person, because it would be opposite to his/hers expectations. Therefore I would be inclined to opt for a high translation level when it comes to packages that are meant to be released, also given the high standards that Debian sets for packages in a stable release. On the other hand, I would be inclined to be much more sloppy when it comes to more volatile media, such as debian-edu-doc at jenkins.debian.net, because users there could easily understand that this is work in progress. Therefore their expectations would be less high, I guess. Here we could for instance stick to the threshold of 15%, i.e. all translations that have entered the master branch. > > No. Even debian-edu-doc-zh (added about three years ago) is now at only > 71% (bullseye) resp. 82% (buster); iirc about 50% of the strings had > been translated at the time the zh binary package has been added. > > See also, back then: > https://lists.debian.org/debian-edu/2017/09/msg9.html > > See the translation status overview on weblate: > https://hosted.weblate.org/projects/debian-edu-documentation/debian-edu-bullseye/ > https://hosted.weblate.org/projects/debian-edu-documentation/debian-edu-buster/ > > > > New packages containing legacy manuals: > > > > same question as above :) > > See: > https://hosted.weblate.org/projects/debian-edu-documentation/audacity/ > https://hosted.weblate.org/projects/debian-edu-documentation/debian-edu-itil/ > https://hosted.weblate.org/projects/debian-edu-documentation/rosegarden/ > > These percentages seem to be string related, I figure. So they might be > comparable to the information obtained running 'make status' (with the > percentages to be calculated manually). That's correct. > > That said, with a string translation limit of at least 80%, only these > translations would be qualified for shipping: > > > debian-edu-bullseye-manual.da.po: 994 translated messages, 176 fuzzy > translations, 40 untranslated messages. > debian-edu-bullseye-manual.de.po: 1210 translated messages. > debian-edu-bullseye-manual.fr.po: 1031 translated messages, 159 fuzzy > translations, 20 untranslated messages. > debian-edu-bullseye-manual.it.po: 1016 translated messages, 174 fuzzy > translations, 20 untranslated messages. > debian-edu-bullseye-manual.ja.po: 1016 translated messages, 174 fuzzy > translations, 20 untranslated messages. > debian-edu-bullseye-manual.nb.po: 1005 translated messages, 205 fuzzy > translations. > debian-edu-bullseye-manual.nl.po: 1210 translated messages. > > debian-edu-buster-manual.da.po: 1334 translated messages, 37 fuzzy > translations, 21 untranslated messages. > debian-edu-buster-manual.de.po: 1392 translated messages. > debian-edu-buster-manual.fr.po: 1390 translated messages, 1 fuzzy > translation, 1 untranslated message. > debian-edu-buster-manual.it.po: 1390 translated messages, 1 fuzzy > translation, 1 untranslated message. > debian-edu-buster-manual.ja.po: 1330 translated messages, 61 fuzzy > translations, 1 untranslated message. > debian-edu-buster-manual.nb.po: 1296 translated messages, 95 fuzzy > translations, 1 untranslated message. > debian-edu-buster-manual.nl.p
Re: Filtering out some untranslatable strings
Hi Frans, [ Frans Spiesschaert, 2020-08-11 ] > Fortunately, the problem turned out not to be that difficult to solve. > The po4a configuration needs one additional adjustment. Since we only > strip the image names and not the entire inline media objects, we > still need to tell po4a that the inlinemediaobject tag is > untranslated. I add an updated po4a.cfg, suitable for > debian-edu-bullseye. I've tested it for all five manuals (with po4a.cfg files matching the related manual): success! Things work like expected, you've done a great job :) And translators would be very thankful if they knew about it... Wolfgang signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Filtering out some untranslatable strings
Hi Wolfgang, Wolfgang Schweer schreef op di 11-08-2020 om 23:13 [+0200]: > Hi Frans, > > [ Frans Spiesschaert, 2020-08-11 ] > > Fortunately, the problem turned out not to be that difficult to solve. > > The po4a configuration needs one additional adjustment. Since we only > > strip the image names and not the entire inline media objects, we > > still need to tell po4a that the inlinemediaobject tag is > > untranslated. I add an updated po4a.cfg, suitable for > > debian-edu-bullseye. > > I've tested it for all five manuals (with po4a.cfg files matching the > related manual): success! Yes! > > Things work like expected, you've done a great job :) > And translators would be very thankful if they knew about it... Thank you for this nice compliment. You too contributed a lot to this success. It was a pleasure to work together with you on this. Frans
