Re: bug reports with urls in them

[Michael Welle]

Hello,

Russell Coker  writes:

> On Mon, 2 Apr 2012, Michael Welle  wrote:
>> I agree only partly with that. Losing a bug report or two is one
>> thing. Imagine a potential or actual customer sending an email to a
>> company and getting a response like: 'Well, we don't know on which data
>> we form our opinion, but we think you are a nigerian scammer or you eat
>> kitten babies. Either way, we don't like you, go away.'. That's what's
>> happening. 
>
> Actually companies do that all the time.  Some corporate web sites used to 
> reject browsers other than IE.  Lots of corporate web sites can't provide 
> full 
> functionality without Flash installed, for example the .au site of almost 
> every car company depended on Flash last time I checked.
>
> I have debated this issue with web developers in the past and had them tell 
> me 
> that non-IE browsers are only used by 5% of the users and they think it's 
> best 
> to provide a good experience for the 95% even if it means rejecting the other 
> 5%.
I won't comment other companies business models. But to some degree I
can understand that. If you have to pay more money to support some
customers than you can earn from them, well, then you might live happy
without that additional customers. On the other hand there are really
really stupid web sites, that look like they had burned lots of working
hours and they still don't deliver usubillity. We have dropped some
companies that got too annoying (f* up interaction with crappy web
sites, no efficient email communication possible, strange file formats
needed etc.) from our list of suppliers. Often there is a second
source. 


> So comparing Debian to a commercial organisation doesn't support your case at 
> all.  Commercial organisations are more than willing to reject some customers 
> if it makes things easy for them.
In life I tend to look for role models above me, not below me. Why
imitate people or companies that do a bad job? We can do better. And of
course, to come back to my initial email, I doubt that using the
blacklist service makes anything easier for Debian.


Regards
hmw

-- 
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Re: Bug#666790: ITP: python-regex -- alternative regular expression module

[Tollef Fog Heen]

]] Sandro Tosi 

>  For testing and comparison with the current 're' module the new 
> implementation
>  is in the form of a module called 'regex'.

This sounds like a bad name, since there used to be a regex module in
the standard distribution a few years back and there's therefore a fair
amount of documentation warning against using it.

-- 
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are


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Re: bug reports with urls in them

[Stefano Zacchiroli]

On Mon, Apr 02, 2012 at 09:35:53AM +0200, Michael Welle wrote:
> > So comparing Debian to a commercial organisation doesn't support your case 
> > at 
> > all.  Commercial organisations are more than willing to reject some 
> > customers 
> > if it makes things easy for them.
>
> In life I tend to look for role models above me, not below me. Why
> imitate people or companies that do a bad job? We can do better.

Very well said! A sort of role model we have in Debian is: "people who
report bugs and attach patches to them". Would you mind then taking this
discussion to a bug report against the "lists.debian.org" pseudo-package
and attaching a patch to it? That would be a way more appropriate place
for this discussion. (I suggest not to mention "foo.org" verbatim in
your bug report, though.)

Cheers.
-- 
Stefano Zacchiroli zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} . o .
Maître de conférences   ..   http://upsilon.cc/zack   ..   . . o
Debian Project Leader...   @zack on identi.ca   ...o o o
« the first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club »


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Re: Bug#666790: ITP: python-regex -- alternative regular expression module

[Sandro Tosi]

On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 09:58, Tollef Fog Heen  wrote:
> ]] Sandro Tosi
>
>>  For testing and comparison with the current 're' module the new 
>> implementation
>>  is in the form of a module called 'regex'.
>
> This sounds like a bad name, since there used to be a regex module in
> the standard distribution a few years back and there's therefore a fair
> amount of documentation warning against using it.

that's the upstream name, and infact I've renamed the also source to
python-regex (instead of keeping 'regex' as upsteram chose); also,
it's well known in the python community what regex module is. To make
it more clear, packages will be python{,3}-regex{,-dbg} but what
you'll import is regex, as per Python Policy.

Could you point to some references about why it's a bad name?

Regards,
-- 
Sandro Tosi (aka morph, morpheus, matrixhasu)
My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/
Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi


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Re: [OT] NM vs. wicd

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2012-03-31 05:42:41 +0200, Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez wrote:
> On 31/03/12 01:03, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > On 2012-03-30 19:43:48 +0200, Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez wrote:
> >> Check that you don't have GLAN/WLAN or something like that enabled on
> >> /proc/acpi/wakeup
> > 
> > xvii:~> cat /proc/acpi/wakeup
> > Device  S-state   Status   Sysfs node
> > PCI0  S4*disabled  no-bus:pci:00
> > PCIE  S4*disabled  pci::00:1e.0
> > USB1  S0*enabled   pci::00:1d.0
> > USB2  S0*enabled   pci::00:1d.1
> > USB3  S0*enabled   pci::00:1d.2
> > USB4  S0*enabled   pci::00:1a.0
> > USB5  S0*enabled   pci::00:1a.1
> > USB6  S0*enabled   pci::00:1a.2
> > EHC2  S0*enabled   pci::00:1a.7
> > EHCI  S0*enabled   pci::00:1d.7
> > AZAL  S3*disabled  pci::00:1b.0
> > RP01  S4*disabled  pci::00:1c.0
> > RP02  S4*disabled  pci::00:1c.1
> > RP03  S4*disabled  pci::00:1c.2
> > RP04  S3*disabled  
> > RP05  S3*disabled  
> > RP06  S5*disabled  
> > LID   S3*enabled   
> > PBTN  S4*enabled   
> > 
> > It seems OK.
> > 
> > BTW, if a GLAN/WLAN in /proc/acpi/wakeup were the cause, I suppose
> > something should be written in the logs, but there were no such
> > things.
> 
> Try to disable everything except PBTN (power button) and check if this
> solves your problem.
> 
> I had problems with my laptop also waking up mysteriously randomly on
> unknown events and I managed to solve it just disabling all wakeup
> events except PBTN

Note that the problem I have is not related to wake-up (everything
is fine once the laptop has suspended). The problem is that under
some conditions, it cannot suspend.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)


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Re: Bug#666790: ITP: python-regex -- alternative regular expression module

[Jakub Wilk]

* Sandro Tosi , 2012-04-02, 10:06:
This sounds like a bad name, since there used to be a regex module in 
the standard distribution a few years back and there's therefore a 
fair amount of documentation warning against using it.


that's the upstream name, and infact I've renamed the also source to 
python-regex (instead of keeping 'regex' as upsteram chose); also, it's 
well known in the python community what regex module is. To make it 
more clear, packages will be python{,3}-regex{,-dbg} but what you'll 
import is regex, as per Python Policy.


Could you point to some references about why it's a bad name?


http://docs.python.org/release/1.5.1/lib/module-regex.html
The module was removed in Python 2.5.

--
Jakub Wilk


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Re: Bug#666790: ITP: python-regex -- alternative regular expression module

[Sandro Tosi]

On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 10:33, Jakub Wilk  wrote:
> http://docs.python.org/release/1.5.1/lib/module-regex.html
> The module was removed in Python 2.5.

so for the supported python versions is a "safe" name. Sorry, but I'm
not going to change that name (if you install a third-party module,
you should know what you do) for just some possible confusion in the
doc.

Cheers,
-- 
Sandro Tosi (aka morph, morpheus, matrixhasu)
My website: http://matrixhasu.altervista.org/
Me at Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/SandroTosi


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Re: bug reports with urls in them

[Marco d'Itri]

On Apr 02, Michael Welle  wrote:

> In life I tend to look for role models above me, not below me. Why
> imitate people or companies that do a bad job? We can do better. And of
> course, to come back to my initial email, I doubt that using the
> blacklist service makes anything easier for Debian.
Not receiving spam on bugs *does* make the BTS easier for developers.
Rejecting mail by applying a reputation service to URLs in the body is 
a best practice.

-- 
ciao,
Marco


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Re: bug reports with urls in them

[Michael Welle]

Hello,

m...@linux.it (Marco d'Itri) writes:

> On Apr 02, Michael Welle  wrote:
>
>> In life I tend to look for role models above me, not below me. Why
>> imitate people or companies that do a bad job? We can do better. And of
>> course, to come back to my initial email, I doubt that using the
>> blacklist service makes anything easier for Debian.
> Not receiving spam on bugs *does* make the BTS easier for developers.
there's no doubt, I certainly agree with this.


> Rejecting mail by applying a reputation service to URLs in the body is 
> a best practice.
Well, 

Anyways, I think Stefano has summed it up perfectly ;). So, if you think
there is more discussion needed feel free to send me an email.

Regards
hmw 

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Bug#666902: ITP: irpe -- Icinga Remote Plugin Executor Server

[Alexander Wirt]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Alexander Wirt 

* Package name: irpe
  Version : 0.1
  Upstream Author : Icinga Team
* URL : https://dev.icinga.org/projects/irpe
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : Icinga Remote Plugin Executor Server

 Nagios/Icinga is a host/service/network monitoring and management system.
 .
 The purpose of this addon is to allow you to execute Nagios/Icinga plugins on a
 remote host in as transparent a manner as possible.
 .
 This program runs as a background process on the remote host and processes
 command execution requests from the check_irpe plugin on the Nagios/Icinga 
host.

irpe is a fork a nrpe which trys to fix several of the long outstanding bugs 
like improper SSL Support. Unfortunatly
these new features make irpe incompatible to nrpe, therefore I plan to support 
both - nrpe and irpe - in Debian. 



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Bug#666904: ITP: automatic-save-folder -- Open the File Browser at the right location, using simple filters on the downloaded file.

[Sascha Girrulat]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Sascha Girrulat 

* Package name: automatic-save-folder
  Version : 1.0.4
  Upstream Author : Cyan 
* URL : http://asf.mangaheart.org/
* License : GPL2
  Programming Lang: Java-Script
  Description : Open the File Browser at the right location, using simple
filters on the downloaded file.



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Bug#666905: ITP: xacml -- SAML 2.0 profile of XACML v2.0

[Dennis van Dok]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Dennis van Dok 

* Package name: xacml
  Version : 1.1.1-1
  Upstream Author : Nikhef Grid Security Middleware Team 

* URL : 
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=xacml
* License : Apache 2
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : SAML 2.0 profile of XACML v2.0

This API provides a basic implementation of the SAML 2.0 profile of
XACML v2.0, including support for obligations in XACML response
messages. It aids in writing XACML clients and servers.



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Re: On init in *Debian*

[Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez]

On 21/03/12 16:52, YunQiang Su wrote:
> It' said that the 2 main advantage of systemd are parallel and
> much simpler configuration file.
> 

And the third advantage of it, is that upstream people is starting to ship 
systemd unit files.

> Is it possible to implement an init system for kFreeBSD and Hurd,
> which init system support the configuration file format, while doesn't
> support parallel.
> 
> Then for maintainer of packages with service, she/he can maintain only
> one configuration file, and it works on both kFreeBSD/Hurd and Linux.
> 

I believe that a better solution is the GSoC project proposed by Tollef

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2012/03/msg00581.html

http://wiki.debian.org/SummerOfCode2012/Projects#SysV-init_file_creator_from_systemd_service_files


We can add a hook on dpkg to automatically convert systemd unit files to 
old-good sysvinit scripts when systemd is not installed on the system.


-- 
~~~
Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez   http://neutrino.es
Igalia - Free Software Engineeringhttp://www.igalia.com
~~~



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Re: On init in *Debian*

[David Weinehall]

On Mon, Apr 02, 2012 at 02:18:17PM +0200, Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez wrote:
> On 21/03/12 16:52, YunQiang Su wrote:
> > It' said that the 2 main advantage of systemd are parallel and
> > much simpler configuration file.
> > 
> 
> And the third advantage of it, is that upstream people is starting to ship 
> systemd unit files.
> 
> > Is it possible to implement an init system for kFreeBSD and Hurd,
> > which init system support the configuration file format, while doesn't
> > support parallel.
> > 
> > Then for maintainer of packages with service, she/he can maintain only
> > one configuration file, and it works on both kFreeBSD/Hurd and Linux.
> > 
> 
> I believe that a better solution is the GSoC project proposed by Tollef
> 
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2012/03/msg00581.html
> 
> http://wiki.debian.org/SummerOfCode2012/Projects#SysV-init_file_creator_from_systemd_service_files
> 
> 
> We can add a hook on dpkg to automatically convert systemd unit files to 
> old-good sysvinit scripts when systemd is not installed on the system.
 
It'd be safer to always run it, since the user might choose to
uninstall systemd, or temporarily disable it, or...  Well, you get the
idea.


Regards: David
-- 
 /) David Weinehall  /) Rime on my window   (\
//  ~   //  Diamond-white roses of fire //
\)  http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/(/   Beautiful hoar-frost   (/


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Bug#666910: ITP: lcmaps-plugins-scas-client -- SCAS client plugin for the LCMAPS authorization framework

[Dennis van Dok]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Dennis van Dok 

* Package name: lcmaps-plugins-scas-client
  Version : 0.3.4-1
  Upstream Author : Nikhef Grid Middleware Security Team 

* URL : https://wiki.nikhef.nl/grid/Site_Access_Control
* License : Apache 2
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : SCAS client plugin for the LCMAPS authorization framework

 The Local Centre MAPping Service (LCMAPS) is a security middleware
 component that processes the users Grid credentials (typically X.509
 proxy certificates and VOMS attributes) and maps the user to a local
 account based on the site local policy.

 This package contains the SCAS client plug-in, required to do authorization
 callouts to the SCAS server.



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Re: On init in *Debian*

[Игорь Пашев]

2012/4/2 Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez 

> And the third advantage of it, is that upstream people is starting to ship
> systemd unit files.


It is not advantage. it is crap. I believe no one can write and support
init/systemd/whatsoever scripts sutable for many distributions and their
versions.

All these scripts, specs and even ./debian dir is just annoying garbage.

Re: On init in *Debian*

[Andrey Rahmatullin]

On Mon, Apr 02, 2012 at 05:14:25PM +0400, Игорь Пашев wrote:
> > And the third advantage of it, is that upstream people is starting to ship
> > systemd unit files.
> It is not advantage. it is crap. I believe no one can write and support
> init/systemd/whatsoever scripts sutable for many distributions and their
> versions.
That's right, nobody can write initscripts for all distros because they
are incompatible. Isn't this problem solved by systemd?

-- 
WBR, wRAR


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Re: On init in *Debian*

[Samuel Thibault]

Andrey Rahmatullin, le Mon 02 Apr 2012 19:21:59 +0600, a écrit :
> On Mon, Apr 02, 2012 at 05:14:25PM +0400, Игорь Пашев wrote:
> > > And the third advantage of it, is that upstream people is starting to ship
> > > systemd unit files.
> > It is not advantage. it is crap. I believe no one can write and support
> > init/systemd/whatsoever scripts sutable for many distributions and their
> > versions.
> That's right, nobody can write initscripts for all distros because they
> are incompatible. Isn't this problem solved by systemd?

No, it was mentioned previously that systemd does not aim at being a
(linux distro) standard.

Samuel


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Non-copyrightable work with non-free license.

[Charles Plessy]

Dear all,

in at least two of my packages, bioperl and emboss, the test suite contains
protein sequence files from the UniProt database, which is distributed under
the non-free CC Attribution-NoDerivs license.  Through a private discussion I
had with their helpdesk, my understanding of their position is that they are
trying to enforce the equivalent of a trademark.

Nevertheless, facts such as protein sequences are not copyrightable.  This is
somewhat confirmed by the UniProt consortium itself on their website
(http://www.uniprot.org/help/license), and my conclusion is that, in isolation
from the rest of the UniProt database, the records in the test suites of
BioPerl and EMBOSS are not copyrightable.

I have asked the FTP team on that matter and did not got positive or negative
comments, so I think I will like to go ahead and simply dismiss the license of
these files, on the grounds that copyright does not apply to them.  But given
that this is a potentially sensitive issue, I prefer to send a last message to
a broader audience before considering the problem solved.

The UniProt consortium is non-profit and funded by public money.

  http://www.uniprot.org/help/about

Note that this is not related to my past proposal of keeping non-free files in
the source packages when we do not use them.  Here I state that these files are
free because they are not copyrightable, and moreover they are used at build
time, in the regression tests.  Actually, this is one of the resaons that I do
not want to remove them: if on my machine I test the pacakge with the full test
suites, I can not "unlearn" that the UniProt parsers are working correctly,
even if I remove the files and break the test suite before upload.

Have a nice day,

-- 
Charles Plessy
Debian Med packaging team,
http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-med
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan


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Re: Standard C Library complance test suite

[Lars Seipel]

On Saturday, March 31, 2012 05:19:02 PM John D. Hendrickson and Sara Darnell 
wrote:
> While cygwin may have a "suite" they are a private company I wouldn't bet to
> dl and use it without a lawyer reading any "corporate provided license"
> they've wrote, my personal preference that is.

Newlib is free software and not in any way restricted to Cygwin. In fact, it's 
mostly used on embedded systems where you don't have a system-provided libc 
implementation available. Its source code is packaged in Debian.

It incorporates code from different sources with different licenses so watch 
the 
per-file licensing information and the COPYING files.

Lars


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Re: Non-copyrightable work with non-free license.

[Ian Jackson]

Charles Plessy writes ("Non-copyrightable work with non-free license."):
> in at least two of my packages, bioperl and emboss, the test suite contains
> protein sequence files from the UniProt database, which is distributed under
> the non-free CC Attribution-NoDerivs license.  Through a private discussion I
> had with their helpdesk, my understanding of their position is that they are
> trying to enforce the equivalent of a trademark.

Can you get them to say something more public and would be a useful
clarification ?  It would be better to explicitly agree with them that
what we (and our users and derivatives) want to do is OK, than to
possibly get involved in some kind of dispute with them.

> Nevertheless, facts such as protein sequences are not copyrightable.  This is
> somewhat confirmed by the UniProt consortium itself on their website
> (http://www.uniprot.org/help/license), and my conclusion is that, in isolation
> from  the rest of the UniProt database, the records in the test suites of
> BioPerl and EMBOSS are not copyrightable.

But having said the above, I agree with your approach.

Ian.


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Re: Anyone in direct contact with Peter S. Galbraith (psg)?

[Luca Capello]

Hi there!

On Sun, 01 Apr 2012 19:14:50 +0200, Neil Williams wrote:
> Packages concerned:
> emacs-goodies-el

I am an heavy user of three of its binaries (devscripts-el, debian-el
and dpkg-dev-el) and I already contributed in the past, so in case it is
orphaned I will be glad to adopt it.

Thx, bye,
Gismo / Luca


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Re: On init in *Debian*

[Russ Allbery]

Samuel Thibault  writes:
> Andrey Rahmatullin, le Mon 02 Apr 2012 19:21:59 +0600, a écrit :

>> That's right, nobody can write initscripts for all distros because they
>> are incompatible. Isn't this problem solved by systemd?

> No, it was mentioned previously that systemd does not aim at being a
> (linux distro) standard.

It was mentioned previously by me that I wasn't sure that this was the
case, and someone who follows systemd development more closely than I do
said that they felt it was the case.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   


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Re: Non-copyrightable work with non-free license.

[Kurt Roeckx]

On Mon, Apr 02, 2012 at 11:00:11PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
> 
> Nevertheless, facts such as protein sequences are not copyrightable.  This is
> somewhat confirmed by the UniProt consortium itself on their website
> (http://www.uniprot.org/help/license), and my conclusion is that, in isolation
> from the rest of the UniProt database, the records in the test suites of
> BioPerl and EMBOSS are not copyrightable.

Some countries have something like database rights, and it's my
understanding that it can cover things that aren't otherwise
copyrightable.


Kurt


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Re: On init in *Debian*

[Andrey Rahmatullin]

On Mon, Apr 02, 2012 at 03:23:21PM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > > > And the third advantage of it, is that upstream people is starting to 
> > > > ship
> > > > systemd unit files.
> > > It is not advantage. it is crap. I believe no one can write and support
> > > init/systemd/whatsoever scripts sutable for many distributions and their
> > > versions.
> > That's right, nobody can write initscripts for all distros because they
> > are incompatible. Isn't this problem solved by systemd?
> 
> No, it was mentioned previously that systemd does not aim at being a
> (linux distro) standard.
Is being a (linux distro) standard the same as being the default
/sbin/init in all distros? If yes, I don't see how is it relevant here.
What I meant is: it is a common knowledge that you need to write an
initscript for each specific distro even though most of them use sysvinit,
but does this apply to systemd unit files too?

-- 
WBR, wRAR


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Description: Digital signature

Re: Non-copyrightable work with non-free license.

[Scott Kitterman]

On Monday, April 02, 2012 06:54:32 PM Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 02, 2012 at 11:00:11PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
> > Nevertheless, facts such as protein sequences are not copyrightable. 
> > This is somewhat confirmed by the UniProt consortium itself on their
> > website (http://www.uniprot.org/help/license), and my conclusion is
> > that, in isolation from the rest of the UniProt database, the records
> > in the test suites of BioPerl and EMBOSS are not copyrightable.
> 
> Some countries have something like database rights, and it's my
> understanding that it can cover things that aren't otherwise
> copyrightable.

In the US (AIUI, IANAL, etc.) structure and arrangement are copyrightable, but 
that doesn't mean that any non-copyrightable material included in that 
structure and arrangement is suddenly subject to copyright (See Groklaw's 
coverage of Oracle v Google for discussion of this).

Scott K


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Re: Anyone in direct contact with Peter S. Galbraith (psg)?

[Peter Galbraith]

I am alive and well.  Strange that the forwards to p...@debian.org are
bouncing... I'll have to see what to do about that.

Peter

On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Neil Williams  wrote:
> I was investigating #633893 and tried to contact the maintainer but the
> @debian.org email address bounced. I checked the MIA tools and found
> some extra email addresses which didn't bounce but to which I've had no
> reply since Sat, 17 Mar 2012 11:45:45. (Those email addresses
> added back to the BCC: of this email.) My second email also bounced
> from the @d.o address.
>
> The only other people listed as uploaders on these packages are also
> CC:'d.
>
> The RC bug was since shown to be fixed, so it's closed. However, having
> packages with a @d.o address which bounces isn't good. (Could easily
> generate 20 RC bugs as per Policy 3.3)
>
> Last seen:
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2012/01/msg00397.html
>
> As a first step to raising this with the MIA team, this is an attempt to
> find out about Peter, to elicit a response so that the packages can be
> updated or orphaned.
>
> http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=psg
>
> Packages concerned:
> emacs-goodies-el g3data gri imgsizer jazip libforms libtcd mh-book mh-e
> poster powstatd proj proj-ps-doc tcd-utils xcolmix xplot xtide
> xtide-coastline xtide-data xwatch xtide-data-nonfree
>
> Peter, if you are receiving email via these other email addresses but
> just busy, please reply. If there is any way that the @d.o email address
> forwarding can be fixed via db.debian.org, it would be very useful.
> There's no forwarding set in db.debian.org currently.
>
> --
>
>
> Neil Williams
> =
> http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/
>


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Re: Standard C Library complance test suite

[David Weinehall]

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 08:02:32PM +1100, Peter Miller wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> 
> I'm looking for a Standard C Library compliance test suite.  I'd prefer
> an open source one, preferably with a license more liberal than GPL,
> e.g. BSD or MIT, which is why I can't just use the tests in the glibc
> sources.
> 
> Can anyone suggest projects that I should look at?

So, I'm curious here: why would you need a non-copyleft license for a
*test suite*?  The test suite is, after all, meant to test for
compliance in a C library.  Just because the test suite is copyleft
doesn't mean that your C library has to be.  The only thing it means is
that you'd have to release modifications to that compliance test suite
*if* you distribute the compliance test suite it to others.


Regards: David
-- 
 /) David Weinehall  /) Rime on my window   (\
//  ~   //  Diamond-white roses of fire //
\)  http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/(/   Beautiful hoar-frost   (/


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Re: On init in *Debian*

[Simon McVittie]

On 02/04/12 18:03, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
> What I meant is: it is a common knowledge that you need to write
> an initscript for each specific distro even though most of them use
> sysvinit, but does this apply to systemd unit files too?

dbus has a different init script for each distro, but one
(upstream-supplied) systemd unit is shared between at least Fedora and
Debian. I believe this is typically true in other projects.

Most of the differences between Fedora and Debian init scripts aren't
visible in a systemd unit, because they're things like whether to use
daemon(1) or start-stop-daemon or something else, which systemd
sidesteps by not needing either.

S


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Re: Bug#666715: ITP: dedupdedup -- find duplicate programs for finding duplicate files

[Olaf Titz]

> > Though I guess we could support both, and define an interchange format
> > for exchanging data between our two systems.
>
> Is there not a risk that they would dedupe each other ?

Not to mention the risk which any program which finds programs with
generalized duplicate-finder function inflicts unto _itself_...

Olaf


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Re: Bug#666715: ITP: dedupdedup -- find duplicate programs for finding duplicate files

[Olaf Titz]

> > * Package name: dedupdedup
>
> Is it recommended to sing the name of this package in a Frank Sinatra
> impression?

In fact when I first read that I automatically read "dedupdedupdedup".
But apparently the last part has been deduplicated already ;-)

Olaf


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Re: On init in *Debian*

[Steve Langasek]

On Mon, Apr 02, 2012 at 06:49:24PM +0100, Simon McVittie wrote:
> On 02/04/12 18:03, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
> > What I meant is: it is a common knowledge that you need to write
> > an initscript for each specific distro even though most of them use
> > sysvinit, but does this apply to systemd unit files too?

> dbus has a different init script for each distro, but one
> (upstream-supplied) systemd unit is shared between at least Fedora and
> Debian. I believe this is typically true in other projects.

> Most of the differences between Fedora and Debian init scripts aren't
> visible in a systemd unit, because they're things like whether to use
> daemon(1) or start-stop-daemon or something else, which systemd
> sidesteps by not needing either.

But it's a real stretch to say that providing those systemd units upstream
makes a serious difference in maintenance overhead for distros.  Either
systemd units, like upstart jobs, are easy to write once and require minimal
ongoing maintenance; or they aren't and that's a pretty big strike against
systemd.

Furthermore, the kinds of things that *will* require changes to job/unit
files - such as dependency changes - are very likely to be driven by distros
in response to local integration needs.

So I don't buy the claims that systemd units upstream are somehow a
significant advantage of systemd over upstart.

-- 
Steve Langasek   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org


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Re: On init in *Debian*

[Tollef Fog Heen]

]] Samuel Thibault 

> Andrey Rahmatullin, le Mon 02 Apr 2012 19:21:59 +0600, a écrit :
> > On Mon, Apr 02, 2012 at 05:14:25PM +0400, Игорь Пашев wrote:
> > > > And the third advantage of it, is that upstream people is starting to 
> > > > ship
> > > > systemd unit files.
> > > It is not advantage. it is crap. I believe no one can write and support
> > > init/systemd/whatsoever scripts sutable for many distributions and their
> > > versions.
> > That's right, nobody can write initscripts for all distros because they
> > are incompatible. Isn't this problem solved by systemd?
> 
> No, it was mentioned previously that systemd does not aim at being a
> (linux distro) standard.

Depending on what you mean by «being a (linux distro) standard», I think
you're misunderstanding what at least I meant, and quite possibly what
Russ Allbery meant too.  (Russ, please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't
want to put words in your mouth.)

Russ Allbery wrote:
  The maintenance of systemd is actually quite the opposite of a
  standard. It's focused on being clean, supportable, and fully
  integrated with Linux capabilities, *not* to solving everyone's use
  case, even to the detriment of being universal.

This is about how systemd is maintained, not whether it is (or can be) a
standard tool.  systemd is not maintained by a standards committee.
It's not driven by people sitting down, discussing the problem it's
trying to solve, thinking about all the edge cases and then writing a
spec and documentation for what one has thought about.

systemd is not written to be interoperable with other init
implementations or a tool which you can easily switch to and away from
it. (You can do that if you don't use most of systemd's features, but if
you commit to using systemd units, there's no other init system that
currently understands them, for instance.)

This does not mean systemd can't be a standard tool, it just means it's
by itself not a standard in the sense the the FHS, the LSB or the XDG
specs are standards.  From talking with upstream, it's quite obvious
that they want systemd to be the standard init on Linux systems.

-- 
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are


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Re: On init in *Debian*

[Tollef Fog Heen]

]] Andrey Rahmatullin 

> What I meant is: it is a common knowledge that you need to write an
> initscript for each specific distro even though most of them use sysvinit,
> but does this apply to systemd unit files too?

It's an explicit goal from systemd upstream that it should be possible
to use the same unit files across distributions.

-- 
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are


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Bug#666961: ITP: milter-regex -- sendmail milter plugin for regular expression filtering

[Matt Zagrabelny]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Matt Zagrabelny 

* Package name: milter-regex
  Version : 1.9
  Upstream Author : Daniel Hartmeier 
* URL : http://www.benzedrine.cx/milter-regex.html
* License : BSD
  Programming Lang: C
  Description : sendmail milter plugin for regular expression filtering

The milter-regex plugin can be used with the milter API of sendmail(8)
to filter mails using regular expressions matching SMTP envelope
parameters and mail headers and body.



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Re: Standard C Library complance test suite

[Peter Miller]

On Mon, 2012-04-02 at 19:39 +0200, David Weinehall wrote: 
> So, I'm curious here: why would you need a non-copyleft license for a
> *test suite*?

Consider the case where a legal department was worried about the code
repository becoming "tainted" with uncontrolled or ill-considered GPL
obligations.



-- 
Peter Miller 


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