Re: QT-GPL

[Marcelo E. Magallon]

>> Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 > Anyone checked the temperature in Hell lately?

 Not really, but I hope Therese enjoyed it...


   Marcelo,
   making obscure references to an endothermic hell


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Re: RFC: GUI tools for common Debian admin tasks

[Marco d'Itri]

On Sep 06, "T.Pospisek's MailLists" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

 >So why not linuxconf? AFAIK it's the most powerful conftool around and
Because it sucks, is insecure and is buggy as hell.
Looks like three good reasons, to me.

-- 
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Marco



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Re: debhelper or fakeroot problem?

[Atsuhito Kohda]

From: Jules Bean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: debhelper or fakeroot problem?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:25:43 +0100

> But it will be fixed in dpkg 1.7.0 which will use objdump not ldd.

From: Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: debhelper or fakeroot problem?
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 14:40:54 +0200

> That's a result of fakeroot messing around with libraries. If I remember
> correctly it was fixed in a NMU at some point but seems to have resurfaced.
> 
> At any rate, dpkg 1.7.0 will have a dpkg-shlibdeps that does not use
> ldd to look for dependencies and that will fix this problem as well.

I see, thanks for your information.

Best Regards, 2000.9.7

--
 Debian JP Developer - much more I18N of Debian
 Atsuhito Kohda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 Department of Math., Tokushima Univ.


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Re: RFC: GUI tools for common Debian admin tasks

[Frederic Peters]

Seth Cohn wrote :
> >So, yes, why reinvent the wheel, if there are allready n^x conftools
> >around with a new one popping up monthly (webmin, COAS, linuxconf,
> >debconf, yast, ..., ..., ...) ? It's not going to make anything
> >easier.
> Agreed.  If you want to do something USEFUL, write a better webmin, debconf
> or linuxconf module.
 - webmin: I think it is useful (and nice) not to have to launch mozilla
   to add an user or change a password.
 - debconf: dpkg-reconfigure users ? debconf is there to configure
   applications and I don't want to replace it at all. It is just not
   suited for some tasks
 - linuxconf: Marco d'Itri sent a comment I agree with (excepted for
   the insecure part where I don't have enough knowledge to judge)

-- 
Frederic Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>« Le travail a été ce que l'homme
Debian GNU/Linux : http://www.debian.org a trouvé de mieux pour ne rien
Gaby : http://gaby.netpedia.net  faire de sa vie. »  R. Vaneigem


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FWD: Re: [slug-chat] RSA is FREE!!!

[Joey Hess]

Figured everyone should see this, just in case...

- Forwarded message from Keith Stevenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -

Delivery-date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 13:02:09 -0700
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 16:00:58 -0400
From: Keith Stevenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [slug-chat] RSA is FREE!!!
User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-Mailman-Version: 1.1
List-Id: For slug members, and friends of the organization. (Moderate Traffic) 

X-BeenThere: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 12:07:43PM -0700, Michael Jennings wrote:
>
> Note the very careful wording:
> 
>This means that RSA Security has waived its rights to enforce the
>patent for any development activities that include the RSA algorithm
>occurring after September 6, 2000.
>^
> 
> So the question remains, are OpenSSL and friends safe, or not?

Good observation.  Take the following excerpt from a FreeBSD crypto list.

Quoting Jeroen C. van Gelderen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

The press release talk about RSADSI "waiving its
rights to enforce the RSA patent for any development
activities"

This is very cunning as the patent never actually
covered development. Instead it covers usage and
sales of products incorporating RSA, both of which
are not explicitly allowed for in the press release.
Better be careful, better get written approval!


Shakespeare was right about lawyers.

--KTS--


-- 
Keith Stevenson
Sysadmin and BOFH
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: RFC: GUI tools for common Debian admin tasks

[Jacob Kuntz]

Frederic Peters ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>  - debconf: dpkg-reconfigure users ? debconf is there to configure
>applications and I don't want to replace it at all. It is just not
>suited for some tasks

agreed, but effort should be made to keep the interface consistent between
GUI admin tools and the gtk interface to debconf.

>  - linuxconf: Marco d'Itri sent a comment I agree with (excepted for
>the insecure part where I don't have enough knowledge to judge)

someone also pointed out that linuxconf is geared to redhat systems, and
would make use on a debian system ugly.

-- 
Jacob Kuntz
underworld.net/~jake
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Debian, daemons and runlevels (was: Re: X and runlevels)

[Craig Sanders]

On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 10:28:20AM -0300, Henrique M Holschuh wrote:
> I was going to tack this sooner or later (the "trust us, we KNOW you
> want the daemons to start always" current state of almost all daemon
> packages annoys me to no end, and from past flamewars I know I'm not
> the only one), I think I even warned a few newbies in -user two days
> ago about this :-)

it is a reasonable assumption to make - if someone installs a package
then it is almost certain that they want it to run, not just sit there
and take up disk space.

the tiny minority who want to install but not run a package can take
whatever special steps are needed to achieve their non-standard
configuration.

> The solution is to *force* all daemon packages to never start a daemon
> out of its intended runlevel, be it during first install or upgrades
> (I think this probably requires a policy change). I'd even say this
> should be a goal for woody, unless we're going to try to get woody out
> of the door very fast.

this sounds bloody annoying.

if you don't want a service to start, then don't install the package.
simple, really.

if for some reason (e.g. transitional dependancies like netbase &
portmap) you have the package installed, and still don't want the
service to start then use update-rc.d to modify the run-level symlinks
(or modify them by hand).

and, as ever, after an upgrade you should thoroughly check your system
to make sure that everying is running (or not running as the case may
be) exactly as you intend it. take appropriate action when you encounter
any divergence from your desires.

no package manager can read your mind.   you're still going to have to do
some of the work yourself.

craig

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Re: Python 1.6 released and GPL incompatible

[Craig Sanders]

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:37:17AM -0700, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
> > 1) Ignore Python 1.6 and up, as long as the license is not compatible
> >with the GPL. That's probably the easiest way to go, but is it
> >justified ? Looks like a deliberate discrimination against a
> >DFSG-free license, only because it's not GPL compatible.

i'd say it's justified because to do otherwise would cause significant
disruption to the debian project - we aren't under any obligation to
package free software just because it exists. the selection criterion
are, and always have been: a) is it DFSG free?, b) are we allowed to
distribute it?, and c) could someone be bothered doing the work to
package it?

in other words, python is Gregor's package - if he doesn't want to
package 1.6 then he doesn't have to.

if that's what he decides, then any other debian developer can choose to
make python 1.6 packages (as long as they don't bugger up his packages).

if nobody chooses to package python 1.6, then it's not in our
distribution. no problem.


if it was up to me, i'd just ignore the new versions of python until
they have a license which is compatible with the GPL. anything else
is going to be too much trouble. but it's not my package, and not my
decision.


> > 2) Include both Python 1.5.2 and 1.6 in woody/main. The 1.6 packages
> >would not satisfy the dependencies of existing packages; any maintainer
> >who'd make a package depend on Python 1.6 would have to make sure that
> >its license is compatible with the Python 1.6 license.
>
> I think that we are going to see more and more cases of GPL
> "incompatibilities" as time goes on.  

we have perfectly good free software licenses already - we have the
GPL for those who believe "once free, always free", and we have the
no-advertising-clause BSD and X11 licenses for those who don't care if
their free software is made proprietary.

there really is no need for any other free software licenses.

there certainly is no need, indeed a compelling anti-need, for new
licenses which are incompatible with any or all of these standard free
software licenses.

this proliferation of new free software licenses (mostly by
companies who want the significant PR benefits of jumping on the
open-source/free-software bandwagon, but without actually seriously
committing to it) is causing significant damage. this practice has to be
resisted at every turn.


> I am disappointed that RMS is fighting over something as trivial as
> a company asking that legal issues be settled in their home state
> (country).  This is common practice.

it's far from trivial. it's an extra restriction in the license, and ANY
extra restriction is incompatible with the GPL, regardless of what it
is. additional permissions are fine, additional restrictions are not.

another significant issue is that the US state of Virginia has adopted
the DMCA, so accepting that jurisdiction means accepting all of the
onerous terms allowed (and enforced) by the DCMA.

craig

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Re: WTF does zsh 3.1.9 does in potato-proposed-updates ?

[Philippe Troin]

Package: zsh
Version: 3.1.9.dev6-1

Clint Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> > Why a new zsh was introduced in potato-proposed-updates ? It's not
> > compatible with thw previous version...
> 
> What do you mean, it's not compatible?

"zmodload complist" does not work for example (it says it cannot find
the module).

  [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~% zmodload complist
  zsh: failed to load module: complist
  zsh: exit 1
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~% zmodload /usr/lib/zsh/3.1.9-dev-6/zsh/complist.so 
  zsh: invalid module name `/usr/lib/zsh/3.1.9-dev-6/zsh/complist.so'
  zsh: exit 1
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~% strings =zsh | grep /usr/lib
  /usr/lib/zsh/3.1.9-dev-6
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~% 

I notice that in the previous zsh version, there were some .so files
in both /usr/lib/zsh/3.1.6-dev-21 and /usr/lib/zsh/3.1.6-dev-21/zsh but
the new zsh only has .so files in /usr/lib/zsh/3.1.9-dev-6.

My point was why was zsh 3.1.9-dev-6 was introduced into
potato-proposed-updates while the previous version was 3.1.6-dev-21 ?


We freeze potato for 3 months and get a working system, and as soon as
it is released we add some packages that break it along with the
security fixes (proposed-updates).


I've opened a bug against zsh for the aforementioned behavior.

Phil.



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Re: Debian, daemons and runlevels (was: Re: X and runlevels)

[Henrique M Holschuh]

On Thu, 07 Sep 2000, Craig Sanders wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 10:28:20AM -0300, Henrique M Holschuh wrote:
> > I was going to tack this sooner or later (the "trust us, we KNOW you
> > want the daemons to start always" current state of almost all daemon
> > packages annoys me to no end, and from past flamewars I know I'm not
> > the only one), I think I even warned a few newbies in -user two days
> > ago about this :-)
> 
> it is a reasonable assumption to make - if someone installs a package

Yes, it is. But it is just that: an assumption. That's all we can do right
now for package installs, and it CAN be argued that it's all we should ever
do in package installs.  My current issue is with package upgrades.

So, please, let's not even get into the 'start daemons at package install'
issue right now. Let me tack the upgrade problem first, and when that's done
and ready (please note I didn't say "accepted"), we can move to the install
problem and we can argue all you want about it.

Here is what I'm trying to fix: Upgrading a daemon while the system is in
runlevel 4 and the init script system is set up to stop that daemon in
runlevel 4 is a *bug*.

If you call the script which addresses the upgrade issue during installs as
well, it won't malfunction (this is a design requirement), and you can share
the same code for upgrades and installs. It *could* be used to avoid
starting a daemon during installs if extended to do so, but it doesn't
_have_ to.

> > The solution is to *force* all daemon packages to never start a daemon
> > out of its intended runlevel, be it during first install or upgrades
> > (I think this probably requires a policy change). I'd even say this
> > should be a goal for woody, unless we're going to try to get woody out
> > of the door very fast.
> 
> this sounds bloody annoying.

If everyone had to write a lot of complicated code to get this to work, I'd
agree with you.  As it stands, I'm writing all the code needed for sysvinit,
and I could even try to do the same for file-rc after the sysvinit code is
ready, tested, published to -devel and ripped to shreds.

A *design* goal in this stuff is that: If you do nothing to the defaults,
the system will act just like it does today. In *all* cases, even the highly
unlikely ones such as no init system at all being installed.

You as a maintainer will have to add something that boils down to:

 ...

 update-rc.d foo bar foobar barfoo
+if canIstartTheDaemonPlease daemonname; then
+   /etc/init.d/daemoname start
+fi

 ...

After all error checking is stripped off.

> if you don't want a service to start, then don't install the package.
> simple, really.

As I said, let's leave that issue alone for now, please.

[...]
> no package manager can read your mind.   you're still going to have to do

It doesn't need to, I consider the start on upgrade as it stands a bug
because the system can detect what it should do, unless I am overlooking
something... which is why I'm trying to get the code done and working before
posting anything else to -devel.

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh


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Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

[Timshel Knoll]

Hi,

Oliver Schulze is an upstream maintainer of one of my prospective packages,
and he's had problems sending mail to my @debian.org address. I believe that
this is something to do with master's IPv6 configuration - the SMTP error
message from master is:

<<< 550 mail from :::216.250.196.10 rejected: administrative prohibition 
(failed to find host name from IP address)

Is there any way to get this fixed?

A copy of the transcript is included below.

Thanks,

Timshel

- Forwarded message from "Oliver Schulze L." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -

Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 00:22:33 -0400
From: "Oliver Schulze L." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16 i586)
X-Accept-Language: en, es-PY, es
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]


-- 
Oliver Schulze L.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Asuncion-Paraguay
http://www.pla.net.py/home/oliver/
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 14:04:44 +0400
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure)
X-Mozilla-Status2: 

The original message was received at Tue, 5 Sep 2000 14:03:08 +0400
from [EMAIL PROTECTED]

   - The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

   - Transcript of session follows -
... while talking to master.debian.org.:
>>> RCPT To:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<<< 550-
<<< 550 mail from :::216.250.196.10 rejected: administrative prohibition 
(failed to find host name from IP address)
550 [EMAIL PROTECTED] User unknown

Reporting-MTA: dns; Polaris.Pla.net.PY
Arrival-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 14:03:08 +0400

Final-Recipient: rfc822; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: dns; master.debian.org
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550-
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 14:04:40 +0400

Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 13:43:12 -0400
From: "Oliver Schulze L." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16 i586)
X-Accept-Language: en, es-PY, es
To: Timshel Knoll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: GPPPKill in Debian ...





- End forwarded message -

-- 
   Timshel Knoll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  for Debian email: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Second year Computer Science, RMIT   |   CS108 Tutor (Semester 2, 2000)
Debian GNU/Linux developer, see http://www.debian.org/~timshel/
   For GnuPG public key: finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Debian, daemons and runlevels (was: Re: X and runlevels)

[Craig Sanders]

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 10:01:31PM -0300, Henrique M Holschuh wrote:
> Here is what I'm trying to fix: Upgrading a daemon while the system is
> in runlevel 4 and the init script system is set up to stop that daemon
> in runlevel 4 is a *bug*.

ok, this makes sense.

i must have misunderstood what you were saying. i agree with the above.

> You as a maintainer will have to add something that boils down to:
> 
>  ...
> 
>  update-rc.d foo bar foobar barfoo
> +if canIstartTheDaemonPlease daemonname; then
> +   /etc/init.d/daemoname start
> +fi
> 
>  ...
> 
> After all error checking is stripped off.

fine, sounds good. i have no problem at all with that. quite the
opposite, in fact.

craig

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Re: Debian, daemons and runlevels (was: Re: X and runlevels)

[Henrique M Holschuh]

On Wed, 06 Sep 2000, Henrique M Holschuh wrote:
> Here is what I'm trying to fix: Upgrading a daemon while the system is in
> runlevel 4 and the init script system is set up to stop that daemon in
> runlevel 4 is a *bug*.

Damn, I should have said "Starting a daemon in a upgrade while the
system..."

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh


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Re: WTF does zsh 3.1.9 does in potato-proposed-updates ?

[Clint Adams]

> I've opened a bug against zsh for the aforementioned behavior.

Fine.  We can move the discussion there then.


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Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

[Jason Gunthorpe]

On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Timshel Knoll wrote:

> Oliver Schulze is an upstream maintainer of one of my prospective packages,
> and he's had problems sending mail to my @debian.org address. I believe that
> this is something to do with master's IPv6 configuration - the SMTP error
> message from master is:
> 
> <<< 550 mail from :::216.250.196.10 rejected: administrative prohibition 
> (failed to find host name from IP address)

This is just your standard lack of reverse DNS.. Part of the anti-spam
bit. The sender needs to get working reverse DNS I suppose..

Jason


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Webmin works... was Re: RFC: GUI tools for common Debian admin tasks

[Seth Cohn]

On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Frederic Peters wrote:

> > Agreed.  If you want to do something USEFUL, write a better webmin, debconf
> > or linuxconf module.
>  - webmin: I think it is useful (and nice) not to have to launch mozilla
>to add an user or change a password.

Excuse me?  if you don't want to launch a browser (and NOT mozilla thank
you... ANY browser, even lynx will (mostly) work), then you should use a
command line tool:  adduser and passwd are fine for any user who is smart
enough to know how.  For the rest, a web pointandclick is one of the only
interfaces they not only _should_ know how to use, but is also remote
controlable easily (yes, true sysadmins can telnet/ssh/remoteX, but we are
talking newbies here), so Windows/Mac/whatever users with a Linux server
to admin can fix things from a remote machine.

Webmin is _really_ well done, and VERY customizable.  I have given users
access to only certain sections, because that is all I have had time to
train them on, and I don't want them messing with other settings.

It's secure... it uses ssl if you want.

It's supported by a strong mailing list, developers, and outside vendors

it's been _packaged_ already.  It requires NO httpd, just perl (so it will
run on a base-floppies system, without X or anything else)

Daniel suggested this list:

  (a) set up a printer. 
  (b) Add/delete users
  (c) Install and configure hardware devices and modules 
  (d) Manage fstab and partitions?
  (e) package management stuff
  (f) Set up a PPP connection.
  (g) See available documentation
  (h) Display network configuration (IP address) as well as modifying it.

Every one of these can be done right _now_ by webmin, I believe, with the
possible exception of (e), because I think there is an RPM but not a
dpkg/apt module.  I bet coding an apt-get module would be trivial.
The nice thing is that if you want to write a module for it, it's easy.
If you do anything Debian specific, great, webmin is smart enough to know
the OS it runs on, and will use that module.

If you haven't tried webmin, please do.  http://www.webmin.com
Last time I looked, webmin packages were sitting in incoming, but rejected
due to the ssl option (Jaldhar wanted it in main, and James bounced it
over the ssl linking).  The deb installed fine for me from 
http://incoming.debian.org/REJECT/

If you want to create a new tool, please _don't_. After trying all of the
horrible ones like yast & linuxconf, and installing hundreds of systems
for people at LUG meetings, I'm convinced that if you want something that
makes sense to new users, just spend your energy improving webmin.  

Mandrake did.  They wanted something that looked nicer, so they created
new icons for it and contributed to development (wrote a postfix module
among others). Caldera is sponsoring it at this point, also.

Instead of creating yet another rift, let's add true Debian support to it.  
A single frontend makes much more sense than tons of incompatible,
non-similar frontends.  A non-power user who switches from Mandrake or
Caldera or RedHat or whatever to Debian (and I have many at our local LUG
who are doing just that...) shouldn't have to learn a whole new frontend,
when something like webmin can handle the cross distributional
differences, which it can and does well right now.







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Re: Python 1.6 released and GPL incompatible

[Branden Robinson]

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:37:17AM -0700, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
> I think that we are going to see more and more cases of GPL 
> "incompatibilities"
> as time goes on.

Agreed; although market forces are driving many software development houses
towards "Open Source", they're still trying to squirm out of making things
free software.

> I am disappointed that RMS is fighting over something as trivial as a
> company asking that legal issues be settled in their home state
> (country).  This is common practice.

I don't think it's trivial at all.  Consider that UCITA is the law of the
land in Virginia, which is where CNRI are trying to corral all
interpretation of the Python license.  If contracts are to be interpreted
only by adjudicators that have already been bought by (or otherwise have
some bias in favor of) one of the parties, then what you have is a letter
of extortion, not a contract.

On a far more pragmatic level, it may be impossible for citizens of the
state of Iowa to become Python licensees under the terms CNRI and BeOpen
have in mind, depending on the details of UCITA and the anti-UCITA measures
passed by the Iowa state legislature.



-- 
G. Branden Robinson |Murphy's Guide to Science:
Debian GNU/Linux|If it's green or squirms, it's biology.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |If it stinks, it's chemistry.
http://www.debian.org/~branden/ |If it doesn't work, it's physics.


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Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

[Branden Robinson]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 01:08:17PM +1100, Timshel Knoll wrote:
> <<< 550 mail from :::216.250.196.10 rejected: administrative prohibition 
> (failed to find host name from IP address)
> 
> Is there any way to get this fixed?

No.  The MTA at the destination host is trying to tell you that dialup
trash like yourself isn't welcome on *THEIR* Internet, under the reasoning
that they're stopping spammers by refusing connections from machines with
characteristics like yours (dynamically assigned IP, perhaps, or simply no
reverse DNS record), and that any legitimate non-spam traffic is too
inconvenient to deal with.

A similar sort of logic holds that if we had executed enough queers (and IV
drug users, but the important part is the queers[*]) in 1983, there
wouldn't be an AIDS epidemic today.

[*] Because if you're fine, upstanding, Church-going member of the Knights
of Columbus, Kiwanis Club, etc., it is far more psychologically devastating
to you if your son is getting poked with pork instead of syringes, even if
the syringes contain smack that's been cut with Drano.

-- 
G. Branden Robinson |   Optimists believe we live in the best of
Debian GNU/Linux|   all possible worlds.  Pessimists are
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |   afraid the optimists are right.
http://www.debian.org/~branden/ |


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Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

[Adam McKenna]

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 09:58:49PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 01:08:17PM +1100, Timshel Knoll wrote:
> > <<< 550 mail from :::216.250.196.10 rejected: administrative 
> > prohibition (failed to find host name from IP address)
> > 
> > Is there any way to get this fixed?
> 
> No.  The MTA at the destination host is trying to tell you that dialup
> trash like yourself isn't welcome on *THEIR* Internet, under the reasoning
> that they're stopping spammers by refusing connections from machines with
> characteristics like yours (dynamically assigned IP, perhaps, or simply no
> reverse DNS record), and that any legitimate non-spam traffic is too
> inconvenient to deal with.

We know your opinions on the DUL, Branden, but that's not what the error
says.

It says, in plain English, "failed to find host name from IP address".

--Adam


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Re: why apt/dpkg not using bzip2

[Nicolás Lichtmaier]

> >  That kind of packaging is a hack, and a very user unfriendly one. I'd like
> > to have native bzip support, to have a lftp.orig.bz2.
> lol, whoever said our source package format was user friendly to begin
> with?

 Because a *normal* user can't easily unpack a debian source package any
longer.


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Re: Webmin works... was Re: RFC: GUI tools for common Debian admin tasks

[Jaldhar H. Vyas]

On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Seth Cohn wrote:

> If you haven't tried webmin, please do.  http://www.webmin.com
> Last time I looked, webmin packages were sitting in incoming, but rejected
> due to the ssl option (Jaldhar wanted it in main, and James bounced it
> over the ssl linking).  The deb installed fine for me from 
> http://incoming.debian.org/REJECT/
> 

Since then I've packaged 0.80, made a seperate ssl package to satisfy the
ftpmasters, split out each module into its own package and made other
improvements suggested by various people.

If I weren't up to my armpits in imap stuff, I might actually get around
to uploading all this. :-)

-- 
Jaldhar H. Vyas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

[Buddha Buck]

> On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 09:58:49PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 01:08:17PM +1100, Timshel Knoll wrote:
> > > <<< 550 mail from :::216.250.196.10 rejected: administrative 
> > > prohibition (failed to find host name from IP address)
> > > 
> > > Is there any way to get this fixed?
> > 
> > No.  The MTA at the destination host is trying to tell you that dialup
> > trash like yourself isn't welcome on *THEIR* Internet, under the reasoning
> > that they're stopping spammers by refusing connections from machines with
> > characteristics like yours (dynamically assigned IP, perhaps, or simply no
> > reverse DNS record), and that any legitimate non-spam traffic is too
> > inconvenient to deal with.
> 
> We know your opinions on the DUL, Branden, but that's not what the error
> says.
> 
> It says, in plain English, "failed to find host name from IP address".

It says in plain English, "administrative prohibition (failed to fine 
host name from IP address)"

Perhaps it's from being too geeky myself, but Branden's explanation 
(the recipient of the error message is not welcome on *THEIR* Internet 
under the reasoning that they're ... refusing connections from machines 
with characteristics like [his] (...simply no reverse DNS record)) 
sounds like a fairly direct and accurate translation of "admisitrative 
prohibition (failed to find host name from IP address)".

> --Adam
> 
> 
> -- 
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> 

-- 
 Buddha Buck [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Just as the strength of the Internet is chaos, so the strength of our
liberty depends upon the chaos and cacophony of the unfettered speech
the First Amendment protects."  -- A.L.A. v. U.S. Dept. of Justice



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Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

[cfm]

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:33:21PM -0400, Buddha Buck wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 09:58:49PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> > > On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 01:08:17PM +1100, Timshel Knoll wrote:
> > > > <<< 550 mail from :::216.250.196.10 rejected: administrative 
> > > > prohibition (failed to find host name from IP address)
> > > > 
> > > > Is there any way to get this fixed?

yes.  get an ISP that can do reverse DNS.  YEESHHH!  I'll happily bounce
their mail until then.

> > > 
> > > No.  The MTA at the destination host is trying to tell you that dialup
> > > trash like yourself isn't welcome on *THEIR* Internet, under the reasoning
> > > that they're stopping spammers by refusing connections from machines with
> > > characteristics like yours (dynamically assigned IP, perhaps, or simply no
> > > reverse DNS record), and that any legitimate non-spam traffic is too
> > > inconvenient to deal with.
> > 
> > We know your opinions on the DUL, Branden, but that's not what the error
> > says.
> > 
> > It says, in plain English, "failed to find host name from IP address".
> 
> It says in plain English, "administrative prohibition (failed to fine 
> host name from IP address)"
> 
> Perhaps it's from being too geeky myself, but Branden's explanation 
> (the recipient of the error message is not welcome on *THEIR* Internet 
> under the reasoning that they're ... refusing connections from machines 
> with characteristics like [his] (...simply no reverse DNS record)) 
> sounds like a fairly direct and accurate translation of "admisitrative 
> prohibition (failed to find host name from IP address)".
> 
> > --Adam
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> 
> -- 
>  Buddha Buck [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "Just as the strength of the Internet is chaos, so the strength of our
> liberty depends upon the chaos and cacophony of the unfettered speech
> the First Amendment protects."  -- A.L.A. v. U.S. Dept. of Justice
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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-- 

Christopher F. Miller, Publisher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MaineStreet Communications, Inc 208 Portland Road, Gray, ME  04039
1.207.657.5078   http://www.maine.com/
Database publishing, e-commerce, office/internet integration, Debian linux.


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Automated network installs?

[Niall Young]

I'm about to start work on a tool to automate network Debian installs,
possibly using a library of images (and eventually tools to create and
maintain those images), or by using a profile of packages to install.

I've been looking at mondo and replicator, but they're not quite what I
need.  Is there anything similar being worked on already, or any
recommendations on what the ideal method would be?

I'd prefer the Packages/config profile, and use a central repository,
but security will be an issue (may use readonly filesystem, would prefer
to look into verifying checksums and comparing to a trusted source).
Mondo's CDR method is nice from the security perspective, but I want a bit
more control over the config of individual machines.

Does this need a new tool, or should I add this functionality to the
install process (load a profile before dselect, not sure what tool suggests
the current profiles when installing?).  Pre-defining configs is vital
though - I want to automate everything, basically create hundreds of identical
machines with maybe a dozen local changes such as IP.  Will debconf help
out here?

I'm new to Debian, any advice or comments appreciated.  No point reinventing
the wheel.

--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

[Adam McKenna]

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:33:21PM -0400, Buddha Buck wrote:
> Perhaps it's from being too geeky myself, but Branden's explanation 
> (the recipient of the error message is not welcome on *THEIR* Internet 
> under the reasoning that they're ... refusing connections from machines 
> with characteristics like [his] (...simply no reverse DNS record)) 
> sounds like a fairly direct and accurate translation of "admisitrative 
> prohibition (failed to find host name from IP address)".

Yes, that's what he said, but what he meant was that people shouldn't have 
the right to decide who they accept mail from, and under what conditions.  I
guess it's been too long since we had that particular flamewar on
debian-devel.

--Adam


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Re: Automated network installs?

[Andreas Tille]

On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Niall Young wrote:

> I've been looking at mondo and replicator, but they're not quite what I
> need.  Is there anything similar being worked on already, or any
> recommendations on what the ideal method would be?
I havn't checked it, but the URL resides on a save place in my Mail-Folder :):

 "fai: full automatic installation"  http://www.informatik.uni-koeln.de/fai

Kind regards

  Andreas.


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new experimental ISDNUTILS packages available

[Paul Slootman]

I've been promising this for a while, but now it's happened:
The latest version of isdn4k-utils has been packaged.

I'm calling this experimental, because things probably WILL go wrong
here and there. However, I'm using it (at least parts of it), and it
works for me.  Be sure to backup your configuration files first!


  ***   Only use these packages if you can live  ***
  ***   with things perhaps breaking, and if you ***
  ***   can fix things yourself when they do break!  ***


In this version, the isdnutils package has been split into smaller
parts. By popular demand there is a separate isdnutils-xtools package
so that those without X don't need to install any X libraries. These
are the packages:

 - isdnutilsbase system e.g. isdnctrl, imon, isdn_cause
manpage. Enough to run rawIP interface and
X.75 with.
 - isdnutils-docFAQ and MiniFAQ
 - isdnutils-xtools xmonisdn, xisdnload
 - ipppdStuff for syncPPP connections (e.g. ISP access)
 - isdnlog  Latest isdnlog binaries
 - isdnlog-data rate, zone, etc. data files for isdnlog
 - isdnvbox vbox ISDN answering machine
 - isdnactivecards  stuff for active ISDN cards including firmware
and capi.  Large and not needed by most people.
 - isdneurofile The eurofileftransfer protocol software.

These packages have been uploaded to the "experimental" distribution
(but not yet installed at this moment, maybe today?),
but are also available by using the following line in /etc/apt/sources.list:

deb http://www.murphy.nl/~paul/debian isdnutils/

After this, "apt-get update; apt-get install ipppd isdnlog-data"
should install isdnutils, ipppd, isdnlog, and isdnlog-data.
You should install any of the other packages that you need.

Isdnlog should ask you a couple of questions via debconf (e.g. what
country you're in, what your areacode is), and create an isdn.conf
file (if not there already).  I recommend MOVING your old isdn.conf
out of the way before installation, the new isdnlog NEEDS a couple of
parameters not in the old version.  In a later version I'll try to
convert any old isdn.conf automatically. After configuration there
should also be a /etc/isdn/rate.conf file, please check this.

While testing it may be useful to know that /etc/init.d/isdnutils
now accepts command like:
/etc/init.d/isdnutils reload isdnlog
to reload only isdnlog; this works for {start,stop,reload} {isdnlog,ipppd}.



Please let me know if you use this version, and keep me informed of
ANYTHING, good or bad. I *do* mean anything, like spelling errors
or a complete destruction of your /etc directory (I hope not :-)

(I already know that the text of the first isdnlog debconf message is
wordwrapped here and there, despite extra whitespace in addition to
the mandatory first space, which should be enough according to the
debconf docs. Anyone know what to do about it?)


Enjoy,
Paul Slootman


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Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

[Joseph Carter]

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:37:55PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> yes.  get an ISP that can do reverse DNS.  YEESHHH!  I'll happily bounce
> their mail until then.

Are you willing to pay the difference between the cost of that user's
current ISP and one which meets your standard?  Until then, you have
absolutely no right to tell someone what ISP they should use.

For some, the option of getting another ISP is unaffordable or even
impossible in some regions of the world.  This is sometimes true even in
the US, especially if you require more than a modem connection.

-- 
Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3
Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC
The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/)   44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3

 Damn, every time I spawn, qf-client-x11 locks hard
 Don't die?
 good incentive.


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Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

[Joseph Carter]

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:57:05PM -0400, Adam McKenna wrote:
> > Perhaps it's from being too geeky myself, but Branden's explanation 
> > (the recipient of the error message is not welcome on *THEIR* Internet 
> > under the reasoning that they're ... refusing connections from machines 
> > with characteristics like [his] (...simply no reverse DNS record)) 
> > sounds like a fairly direct and accurate translation of "admisitrative 
> > prohibition (failed to find host name from IP address)".
> 
> Yes, that's what he said, but what he meant was that people shouldn't have 
> the right to decide who they accept mail from, and under what conditions.  I
> guess it's been too long since we had that particular flamewar on
> debian-devel.

They have every right.

They have no right to demand that those from whom they reject legitimate
mail find another way to deliver mail to them, however.

-- 
Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3
Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC
The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/)   44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3

 heh, I never took a coding class
 or a graphics class
 or a software design class
 and it shows :P


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XFree86 4.x Phase 2 is ready

[Branden Robinson]

[followups to debian-x, please]

   [7 September] Phase 2 .debs of XFree86 4.0 are now available. These
   are retrievable with apt, and should upgrade smoothly from version
   3.3.6 of XFree86, but please note that they are for testing, not
   general-purpose use, and the library packages should definitely should
   not be used to compile packages for upload to Debian.. The xfonts-cjk
   package may have to be removed (e.g., with apt-get remove xfonts-cjk)
   before you can dist-upgrade to these packages. I seem to have the
   dependencies right, so I'm not sure why this is happening. Also note
   that any packages compiled against an old version of the XPM library
   will be removed by this upgrade. Bugs were filed against every package
   with this problem weeks ago, but there are still quite a few
   stragglers. I've done NMU's for a couple and they are available along
   with the Phase 2 packages. (Note that all that is required for these
   XPM-dependent packages is a simple recompile on an up-to-date system;
   nothing having to do with XFree86 4 is necessary, and in fact building
   against XFree86 4 libraries would be a very bad idea before official
   Debian packages exist for them.) Phase 3, a.k.a. upload of official
   packages to woody, will happen when 1) I've fought any fires that
   testers find in Phase 2; 2) these packages compile on all
   architectures Debian supports (or at least the ones with 3.3.6
   packages); and 3) when I have ported forward all necessary patches we
   applied to 3.3.6. I appreciate the patience and assistance I have
   received to date, just a little more and we'll be there!



-- 
G. Branden Robinson| If a man ate a pound of pasta and a
Debian GNU/Linux   | pound of antipasto, would they cancel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  | out, leaving him still hungry?
http://deadbeast.net/~branden/ | -- Scott Adams


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Debian banner ad outdated

[Florian Hinzmann]

Hello!

I just browsed freshmeat and a Debian banner appeared at the 
top of that page. Unfortunately it reads "version 2.1".

Who might be able to fix this?


   bye
Florian

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Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

[Craig Sanders]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 12:55:07AM -0500, Joseph Carter wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:37:55PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > yes. get an ISP that can do reverse DNS.  YEESHHH!  I'll happily
> > bounce their mail until then.
>
> Are you willing to pay the difference between the cost of that user's
> current ISP and one which meets your standard?  Until then, you have
> absolutely no right to tell someone what ISP they should use.

nobody's telling anyone to get any particular ISP or that they have to
pay for a premium quality service.

it's simple - if you want a service that's worth having, you pay
whatever it costs. if you don't want that, then pay for a cheap/crappy
service and put up with it without whining.

if you pay peanuts for a crap service from incompetent bumbling fools
who can't even get reverse DNS working, then don't be surprised when
what you get actually IS a crap service. and don't be surprised when
your connectivity and your ability to communicate suffers as a result.
caveat emptor.

(that said, i don't believe that missing reverse DNS is a good reason
for bouncing mail. a "450 try again later" response is more appropriate,
to cope with temporary dns outages. bouncing mail from nonexistant
domains, however, is a different story - it's almost certainly spam and
there's no point in accepting a message which doesn't have a valid reply
address so just bounce it)


> For some, the option of getting another ISP is unaffordable or even
> impossible in some regions of the world.  This is sometimes true even in
> the US, especially if you require more than a modem connection.

there are numerous ways around the problem if you are stuck with a
crappy dialup ISP, one of which is to pay for decent mail service from
someone who has a clue and run uucp over tcp or an ssh tunnel to port
25, or any of the other methods which have been mentioned every time
this and similar issues (e.g. the recurring DUL thread) comes up.

there ARE sites that offer reasonably priced (between $5 and $20 per
month) uucp mail services. 

there are even sites that will offer the same or similar services for
free - e.g. i have an open standing offer to provide ssh or uucp access
for mail for any debian or other free software developer - although i
reserve the right to refuse service to one particular loser (can you
guess who, joseph?) and make sure that everyone who takes me up on the
offer accepts the fact that the service is not guaranteed, you get at
least what you pay for (i.e. nothing), and it may die with no warning or
recompense for any number of reasons.

if i've got the time i'd even be willing to experiment with the
certificate based relay control in postfix-tls (so far i only use it for
smtp encryption, not relay control)

craig

--
craig sanders


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Re: RFC: GUI tools for common Debian admin tasks

[Nate Duehr]

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 12:40:19PM +0200, T.Pospisek's MailLists wrote:
> So why not linuxconf? AFAIK it's the most powerful conftool around and
> there's *even* a .deb version of it. Further on it's pretty trivial to
> write modules for it and once done you can interface to the conftool
> through the command line, the web, textinterface, x-interface, ...

Linuxconf is very broken (and it's documented in the Readme's provided
with the .deb) on Debian, and it mangles perfectly good config files
into nasty-looking ones that sysadmins who prefer vi usually dislike
reading.  It also has various security issues.

(Look at what it does to DNS configuration files sometime.  Ugh!)

-- 
Nate Duehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

GPG Key fingerprint = DCAF 2B9D CC9B 96FA 7A6D AAF4 2D61 77C5 7ECE C1D2
Public Key available upon request, or at wwwkeys.pgp.net and others.


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ITP: Obsequiem, a networked MP3 jukebox

[Florian Hinzmann]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist

I will package Obsequiem 0.3.0, an networked MP3 jukebox with
a web interface and streaming support.

Homepage is http://obs.freeamp.org/ , licence is GPL.


  bye
   Florian


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Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

[Branden Robinson]

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:57:05PM -0400, Adam McKenna wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:33:21PM -0400, Buddha Buck wrote:
> > Perhaps it's from being too geeky myself, but Branden's explanation 
> > (the recipient of the error message is not welcome on *THEIR* Internet 
> > under the reasoning that they're ... refusing connections from machines 
> > with characteristics like [his] (...simply no reverse DNS record)) 
> > sounds like a fairly direct and accurate translation of "admisitrative 
> > prohibition (failed to find host name from IP address)".
> 
> Yes, that's what he said, but what he meant was that people shouldn't have 
> the right to decide who they accept mail from, and under what conditions.  I
> guess it's been too long since we had that particular flamewar on
> debian-devel.

I said no such thing.  You are failing to distinguish between rights and
policies.  Every individual has a right to maintain whatever "policies" they
like in life as long as they don't violate the rights of others.  However,
not all policies promote the common weal equally.  In fact, some work to
the deteriment of society in general.  It is difficult to read much in
social and political, or even legal, theory, without noting that
indiscriminate policies that affect as many innocent bystanders as targets
are ineffecient and possibly even detrimental.

Extreme political and economic conservatives perceive every human decision
in a microcosm, reducing every issue to Smith and Jones, ignoring aggregate
effects when it is convenient do so (see, for instance, Rothbard, Murray:
_Man, Economy, and State_).  As a pedagogical tool this is useful tool; but
if one wants to make real decisions or do real work, one has to consider
the real world.

Sure, Mr. Jones at ISP A has every right to shitcan mail from me at ISP B.
An individual analysis is merited by an individual decision.  Maybe Mr.
Jones doesn't want to read my rants.  But if Mr. Jones has a policy of
shitcanning all mail from all hosts whose IP's don't have reverse DNS
records, he has abandoned the pretext of basing his decision on individual
analysis, instead choosing to adopt a policy based on aggregates.  If Mr.
Jones is responsible to Messrs. Smith, Franklin, and Johnson for their
email as well, he needs to consider the impact of his policy on lines of
communication between all the people he is screening out due to his policy,
and his customers.  (Of course, he may be screening some of his *own*
correspondents with such a policy, but to the extent that he is aware of
this, he typically assigns responsibility for the problem on their
shoulders.  After all, he is unequivocally justified in his own mind.)

People like Mr. Jones don't like to consider impacts.  They like easy rules
and easy policies.  They don't like to do analysis.  And they especially
don't like to be inconvenienced by considerations of the impact of their
actions on a larger system.  Because that's Hard.  Nobody likes Hard work.

Nobody said fairness or intelligence were easily come by, either.  Does it
follow that we should not encourage their cultivation?

-- 
G. Branden Robinson |Communism is just one step on the long
Debian GNU/Linux|road from capitalism to capitalism.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |-- Russian saying
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Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 12:55:07AM -0500, Joseph Carter wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:37:55PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > yes.  get an ISP that can do reverse DNS.  YEESHHH!  I'll happily bounce
> > their mail until then.
> 
> Are you willing to pay the difference between the cost of that user's
> current ISP and one which meets your standard?  Until then, you have
> absolutely no right to tell someone what ISP they should use.

Sigh. Not again. I just can't be bothered arguing this with a bunch
of half-wits again.

In any case, reverse DNS lookup is reasonable, no matter what you think
of DUL.


Hamish
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Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

[Raul Miller]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 06:09:31PM +1100, Craig Sanders wrote:
> nobody's telling anyone to get any particular ISP or that they have to
> pay for a premium quality service.

True.

> it's simple - if you want a service that's worth having, you pay
> whatever it costs. if you don't want that, then pay for a cheap/crappy
> service and put up with it without whining.

Eh?

> (that said, i don't believe that missing reverse DNS is a good
> reason for bouncing mail. a "450 try again later" response is more
> appropriate, to cope with temporary dns outages. bouncing mail from
> nonexistant domains, however, is a different story - it's almost
> certainly spam and there's no point in accepting a message which
> doesn't have a valid reply address so just bounce it)

Ouch.  I think debian developers should have a better understanding
of DNS.

[1] A mail domain does not have to have a valid IP address.

As a default, if you use a mail domain for which there's no mail exchange,
the default is to look for a host address with that name.  But that's
just the default.

[2] A PTR record does not have to contain *any* information whatsoever.

Imagine the mail client at 1.2.3.4 initiates an smtp session with
your system.  Your mail server performs a PTR lookup and gets back
4.3.2.1.in-addr.arpa.  It then performs an A lookup and finds that
4.3.2.1.in-addr.arpa has the address 1.2.3.4.  What have you learned?

-- 
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Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

[Paul Slootman]

On Thu 07 Sep 2000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 12:55:07AM -0500, Joseph Carter wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:37:55PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > yes.  get an ISP that can do reverse DNS.  YEESHHH!  I'll happily bounce
> > > their mail until then.
> > 
> > Are you willing to pay the difference between the cost of that user's
> > current ISP and one which meets your standard?  Until then, you have
> > absolutely no right to tell someone what ISP they should use.

> In any case, reverse DNS lookup is reasonable, no matter what you think
> of DUL.

I have to agree with this. The previous time, the discussion was
using DUL to block email. This is about reverse DNS lookups
failing, which is a completely different this. If the reverse
DBS lookup fails, you either have a grossly incompetent ISP(*) or
a malicious one.

(*) Try this for size:

   $ nslookup
   Default Server:  localhost
   Address:  127.0.0.1

   > set type=mx
   > deanmoor.nl
   Server:  localhost
   Address:  127.0.0.1

   Non-authoritative answer:
   deanmoor.nl preference = 10, mail exchanger = mail.deanmoor.nl

   Authoritative answers can be found from:
   deanmoor.nl nameserver = ns01.deanmoor.nl
   deanmoor.nl nameserver = ns02.deanmoor.nl
   mail.deanmoor.nlinternet address = 193.203.225.35
   ns01.deanmoor.nlinternet address = 193.203.225.35
   ns02.deanmoor.nlinternet address = 193.203.225.36
   > set type=a
   > 193.203.225.35
   Server:  localhost
   Address:  127.0.0.1

   *** localhost can't find 193.203.225.35: Non-existent host/domain
   > 193.203.225.36
   Server:  localhost
   Address:  127.0.0.1

   *** localhost can't find 193.203.225.36: Non-existent host/domain
   > www.deanmoor.nl
   Server:  localhost
   Address:  127.0.0.1

   Non-authoritative answer:
   Name:www.deanmoor.nl
   Address:  193.203.225.10

   > 193.203.225.10
   Server:  localhost
   Address:  127.0.0.1

   *** localhost can't find 193.203.225.10: Non-existent host/domain

It used to be a different scenario:
   mail.deanmoor.nl -> 193.203.225.35 -> www.deanmoor.nl ->
193.203.225.10 -> unknown

I contacted them about this (a couple of times), but they were convinced
that their setup was correct. They also tried to convince me that I
misunderstood the problem. Yeah, right.

I recommended my client to go elsewhere for internet connectivity.
He did, and now knows that it is possible to have a reliable internet
connection. He now also pays in excess of US$1000 a year _less_ for it.


Paul Slootman
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Re: RFC: GUI tools for common Debian admin tasks

[Ricardo Javier Cardenes Medina]

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 06:59:57PM +0200, Frederic Peters wrote:
> 
> Ricardo Javier Cardenes Medina wrote :
> > We can fill automagically some of these values. If a user types in
> > "192.168.1.15" as IP, and the interface is eth*, we can figure out that
> > the gateway will be 192.168.1.1, and class C (255.255.255.0).
> > 
> > The user will be able to modify those values as he/she is going through
> > the options, if they are wrong.
> Actually the boot floppies already does that nicely.
> (and yes, it is nice)

Yes, I know this :) But we have to provide some way to the user to
re-configure it without having to type:

dpkg-reconfigure netbase

Why? Well... Maybe some users are "blind", or simply they have not
experience enough with Debian to know that this is one (of multiple)
way... O:)


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Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

[Craig Sanders]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 05:48:17AM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 06:09:31PM +1100, Craig Sanders wrote:
> > it's simple - if you want a service that's worth having, you
> > pay whatever it costs. if you don't want that, then pay for a
> > cheap/crappy service and put up with it without whining.
>
> Eh?

it means exactly what it says. if you pay for garbage, don't be
surprised when you get garbage. which is not to say that a good service
always costs more - it means that if you subscribe to a crappy service
solely because it's cheap then you've only got yourself to blame when
that crappy service causes you problems.

> > (that said, i don't believe that missing reverse DNS is a good
> > reason for bouncing mail. a "450 try again later" response is more
> > appropriate, to cope with temporary dns outages. bouncing mail from
> > nonexistant domains, however, is a different story - it's almost
> > certainly spam and there's no point in accepting a message which
> > doesn't have a valid reply address so just bounce it)
>
> Ouch.  I think debian developers should have a better understanding of
> DNS.
>
> [1] A mail domain does not have to have a valid IP address.

yes, i know.

i said NON-EXISTANT domain - i.e. no NS record, no MX record, no A records,
no records of any kind.

actually, i distinguish between domains which have no existence at all,
and those where an NS record exists but none of the nameservers are
responding.

for the former, my MTA bounces the message (with a 550 reject code).
an example is [EMAIL PROTECTED] - i.e. spam from a nonexistant
randomly-generated address.

for the latter, my MTA uses a 450 "temporary failure, try again later"
code. if they fix their DNS problem before their queue expiry time, then
my system will eventually accept it. if not, then their system will
bounce it after 5 days (or however long they've got it configured for).

still, this is something to watch for in the logs because some broken
NT mailers don't do exponential back-off (or any kind of back off at
all). instead of increasing the delay between subsequent attempts, they
will immediately attempt another delivery. when i see this happen, i
put in an explicit rule to either reject or bounce the incoming message
(depending on what the logs say - really obvious spam gets bounced,
anything else gets accepted).

most (if not all) unix MTAs are capable of doing this kind of domain
check these days.

> As a default, if you use a mail domain for which there's no mail
> exchange, the default is to look for a host address with that name.
> But that's just the default.

yes, i know.

i've been working with internet mail systems and dns for over 7 years.

> [2] A PTR record does not have to contain *any* information whatsoever.
> 
> Imagine the mail client at 1.2.3.4 initiates an smtp session with
> your system.  Your mail server performs a PTR lookup and gets back
> 4.3.2.1.in-addr.arpa.  It then performs an A lookup and finds that
> 4.3.2.1.in-addr.arpa has the address 1.2.3.4.  What have you learned?

nothing, of course.

i think you misread what i said. i said that missing or incorrect
reverse DNS is *NOT* a good reason for bouncing mail.

craig

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Re: Python 1.6 released and GPL incompatible

[Christian Surchi]

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 10:49:20PM +0400, Alexey Vyskubov wrote:

> Pyhton 2.0 is released already. And it doesn't seems that 2.0 solve the
> license incompatibility...

It's not a stable release.

bye
Christian

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Re: Key signing in Munich/Germany or Berlin/Germany?

[Torsten Landschoff]

Hi Adrian, 

On Fri, Aug 25, 2000 at 01:06:05PM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> I need a developer to sign my GPG-key. Is anyone in or near Munich/Germany
> (where I live) or Berlin/Germany (where I'll be for a week in the near
> future)?

I am in Berlin for the September so if you are around just write me a mail.

Greetings

Torsten


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Old PPP Bug

[Torsten Landschoff]

On Sun, Aug 27, 2000 at 03:19:58PM +0200, Josip Rodin wrote:
> >Package: ppp
> >Maintainer: Michael Beattie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >20007 ppp reconnects after poff ...
> 
> Submitter not responding; close?

Close it, it has been dealt with upstream a long time ago.

cu

Torsten


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RFC: removal of libqt1g from woody

[Ivan E. Moore II]

Hey,

I'd like to remove qt1 from woody.  I only seem to find 1 package that
depends on it currently (tuxeyes) and due to the fact that it's non-free
and qt2 is out with a gpl'd license and all, I think we should discourage it's
use just as Troll is.

Ivan

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Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

[Raul Miller]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 09:06:55PM +1100, Craig Sanders wrote:
> i think you misread what i said. i said that missing or incorrect
> reverse DNS is *NOT* a good reason for bouncing mail.

I guess I did.

Thanks,

-- 
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Re: RFC: removal of libqt1g from woody

[Brian Almeida]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 04:16:03AM -0700, Ivan E. Moore II wrote:
> Hey,
> 
> I'd like to remove qt1 from woody.  I only seem to find 1 package that
> depends on it currently (tuxeyes) and due to the fact that it's non-free
> and qt2 is out with a gpl'd license and all, I think we should discourage it's
> use just as Troll is.
'explorer' also depends on it (using the old qt1g package name):
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [~]: grep-dctrl -F Depends qt1g /var/lib/dpkg/available|grep
^Package  
Package: explorer
Package: tuxeyes
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [~]: 



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Debian Developer   |  http://www.debian.org  | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: why apt/dpkg not using bzip2

[Alisdair McDiarmid]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 12:09:58AM -0300, Nicolás Lichtmaier wrote:
> > >  That kind of packaging is a hack, and a very user unfriendly one. I'd 
> > > like
> > > to have native bzip support, to have a lftp.orig.bz2.
> > lol, whoever said our source package format was user friendly to begin
> > with?
> 
>  Because a *normal* user can't easily unpack a debian source package any
> longer.

Um, sorry if I'm missing something, but I can do apt-get source 
as any user, and it downloads and unpacks the source for me nicely.
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please help updating calendar

[Marco d'Itri]

A calendar.hindu file is needed for 2000/2001 and the yearly
calendar.christian needs to be updated to the new syntax.
Duplicated events needs to be removed from the yearly calendar.judaic
files.

I'll also be happy to add the events of your religion of choice.

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Marco



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Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

[Marco d'Itri]

On Sep 07, Jason Gunthorpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

 >This is just your standard lack of reverse DNS.. Part of the anti-spam
 >bit. The sender needs to get working reverse DNS I suppose..
Looks like a stupid check, to me.
Some very big ISP here have mailservers with no reverse mapping...

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Re: RFC: removal of libqt1g from woody

[Ivan E. Moore II]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 07:35:44AM -0400, Brian Almeida wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 04:16:03AM -0700, Ivan E. Moore II wrote:
> > Hey,
> > 
> > I'd like to remove qt1 from woody.  I only seem to find 1 package that
> > depends on it currently (tuxeyes) and due to the fact that it's non-free
> > and qt2 is out with a gpl'd license and all, I think we should discourage 
> > it's
> > use just as Troll is.
> 'explorer' also depends on it (using the old qt1g package name):

missed one..thanks.

Ivan

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Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

[Jules Bean]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 12:33:21PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Sep 07, Jason Gunthorpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>  >This is just your standard lack of reverse DNS.. Part of the anti-spam
>  >bit. The sender needs to get working reverse DNS I suppose..
> Looks like a stupid check, to me.

It is.

> Some very big ISP here have mailservers with no reverse mapping...

Well, they are badly broken, you know?

The IANA mandate is that /all/ machines on public IP address have
reverse mappings.  No exceptions. I won't rehash the old debate over
whether it's better to tolerate broken behaviour (better resilience)
or force broken behaviour to break worse (often the only way to force
incompetent idiots to fix things).

Jules


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Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

[Craig Sanders]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 11:58:33AM +0200, Paul Slootman wrote:
> > In any case, reverse DNS lookup is reasonable, no matter what you
> > think of DUL.
>
> I have to agree with this. The previous time, the discussion was using
> DUL to block email. This is about reverse DNS lookups failing, which
> is a completely different this. If the reverse DBS lookup fails, you
> either have a grossly incompetent ISP(*) or a malicious one.

i'd have to disagree with this. screwed up the DNS isn't a good reason
for bouncing mail (because there's no particular reason to believe it's
spam)the fact that the ISP is clueless doesn't mean that they're
spammers or a spam haven.

the only thing that reverse DNS really tells you is that the remote
site isn't pretending to be someone else (i.e. tcpd style PARANOID
checks)and that check is satisfied whether there's a PTR record or
not.


OTOH, DUL is good because their is bugger-all legitimate reason for
anyone to be sending direct from a dialup dynamic IP address - there are
many cheap & reasonable alternatives to doing that.

more importantly, given that the number of die-hard DIYers with linux
boxes who insist on delivering their mail from a dynamic IP address (and
wont consider any alternative for any reason) is insignificant compared
to the number of spammers who try to do the same, there is excellent
reason to believe that the incoming mail is probably spam.


> I recommended my client to go elsewhere for internet connectivity.  He
> did, and now knows that it is possible to have a reliable internet
> connection. He now also pays in excess of US$1000 a year _less_ for
> it.

buggered DNS is, however, a damn good reason to look for a better ISP.
one with a clue. if your current ISP can't even get something simple
like DNS working properly then it's unlikely that they can get anything
workingthey don't deserve your money.


craig

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Re: new experimental ISDNUTILS packages available

[Michael Beattie]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 07:40:02AM +0200, Paul Slootman wrote:
> These packages have been uploaded to the "experimental" distribution
> (but not yet installed at this moment, maybe today?),
> but are also available by using the following line in /etc/apt/sources.list:

I added the override entries last night I think...
I dont see them installed.. - not sure why..

...but your new upload will be rejected :)

isdnutils_3.1pre1b-1_i386.changes
REJECT
Rejected: md5sum failed
md5sum: MD5 check failed for 'isdnutils_3.1pre1b-1.dsc'

(not me, dinstall)

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Re: Python 1.6 released and GPL incompatible

[Mark Brown]

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 09:50:07PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:37:17AM -0700, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:

> > I am disappointed that RMS is fighting over something as trivial as a
> > company asking that legal issues be settled in their home state
> > (country).  This is common practice.

> I don't think it's trivial at all.  Consider that UCITA is the law of the
> land in Virginia, which is where CNRI are trying to corral all
> interpretation of the Python license.  If contracts are to be interpreted

There's also the fact that IP rights work much better if you make an
effort to enforce them.  (IANAL, of course)

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Re: RFC: moving packages to project/orphaned

[Torsten Landschoff]

On Sun, Sep 03, 2000 at 10:18:45PM +0200, Wichert Akkerman wrote:
 
> How do you plan to handle packages that are used by others? For example
> your list contains dpkg-scriptlibs in the list of packages that should
> be moved to orphanded, but that will have the nice side effect of breaking
> all tetex packages since they use dpkg-perl.

Not to mention that a lot of packages inherited by debian-qa are still
maintained by the QA group (while not as intensive as by a "real" 
maintainer).

cu
Torsten


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Re: bug database not updated?

[Mark Brown]

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 08:23:40PM +0200, Santiago Vila wrote:

> Static pages are known to be outdated.

I'm sure I asked this previously, but could we not add a note to that
effect on at least the front page?

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Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

[Mark Brown]

On Wed, Sep 06, 2000 at 11:33:21PM -0400, Buddha Buck wrote:

> > It says, in plain English, "failed to find host name from IP address".

> It says in plain English, "administrative prohibition (failed to fine 
> host name from IP address)"

> Perhaps it's from being too geeky myself, but Branden's explanation 
> (the recipient of the error message is not welcome on *THEIR* Internet 
> under the reasoning that they're ... refusing connections from machines 

It was the bit about "dialup trash" - inability to get reverse DNS
working is a different issue.

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Re: new experimental ISDNUTILS packages available

[Paul Slootman]

On Fri 08 Sep 2000, Michael Beattie wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 07:40:02AM +0200, Paul Slootman wrote:
> > These packages have been uploaded to the "experimental" distribution
> > (but not yet installed at this moment, maybe today?),
> > but are also available by using the following line in /etc/apt/sources.list:
> 
> I added the override entries last night I think...
> I dont see them installed.. - not sure why..
> 
> ...but your new upload will be rejected :)
> 
> isdnutils_3.1pre1b-1_i386.changes
> REJECT
> Rejected: md5sum failed
> md5sum: MD5 check failed for 'isdnutils_3.1pre1b-1.dsc'

[puzzled]

For some reason the .dsc file was the old one. I've uploaded the correct
one, so everything should be OK now. Thanks for the warning.


Paul Slootman
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Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

[Paul Slootman]

On Thu 07 Sep 2000, Craig Sanders wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 11:58:33AM +0200, Paul Slootman wrote:
> > > In any case, reverse DNS lookup is reasonable, no matter what you
> > > think of DUL.
> >
> > I have to agree with this. The previous time, the discussion was using
> > DUL to block email. This is about reverse DNS lookups failing, which
> > is a completely different this. If the reverse DBS lookup fails, you
> > either have a grossly incompetent ISP(*) or a malicious one.
> 
> i'd have to disagree with this. screwed up the DNS isn't a good reason
> for bouncing mail (because there's no particular reason to believe it's

I've seen lots of spam where the originating IP address doesn't resolve.
OTOH, I've hardly ever received legitimate mail with the same problem.

> OTOH, DUL is good because their is bugger-all legitimate reason for
> anyone to be sending direct from a dialup dynamic IP address - there are
> many cheap & reasonable alternatives to doing that.

The name is badly chosen, it should be DDUL (dynamic dial up list).
I have a dialup line, but it has a fixed IP address.

> more importantly, given that the number of die-hard DIYers with linux
> boxes who insist on delivering their mail from a dynamic IP address (and

If the alternative was a "smarthost" with an ISP that can't get its
DNS straight, I'm with the die-hard DIYers.

> wont consider any alternative for any reason) is insignificant compared
> to the number of spammers who try to do the same, there is excellent
> reason to believe that the incoming mail is probably spam.

Sounds remarkably similar to my argument above about non-resolving
IP addresses and spam.


Paul Slootman
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Re: ITP: Obsequiem, a networked MP3 jukebox

[michael d. ivey]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 09:26:43AM +0200, Florian Hinzmann wrote:
> I will package Obsequiem 0.3.0, an networked MP3 jukebox with
> a web interface and streaming support.
> 
> Homepage is http://obs.freeamp.org/ , licence is GPL.

Does the default kernel have multicast support?  If not, how do you
plan to handle that?  Or, where you planning to go the icecast/libshout
route?

Looks like a very nice program...I'm looking forward to it.

-- 
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   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : to hide your sources."
http://gweezlebur.com/~ivey/ :   -- Albert Einstein
 encrypted email preferred   :


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Re: please help updating calendar

[Jaldhar H. Vyas]

On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Marco d'Itri wrote:

> A calendar.hindu file is needed for 2000/2001

I'll do it.  Give me a day or two.

-- 
Jaldhar H. Vyas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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ITP: pdnsd

[Takuo KITAME]

I've just packaged `pdnsd'.
So, I intent to upload this.

pdnsd is a proxy dns server with permanent caching 
(the cache contents are written to hard disk on exit)
 that is designed to cope with unreacheable or down dns servers
 (for example in dial-in networking). 

LICENSE is GPL2

about more, http://home.t-online.de/home/Moestl/index.html

Regards.
-- 
Takuo KITAME / [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: alternatives for MUA and NUA?

[Junichi Uekawa]

In Wed, 6 Sep 2000 23:10:32 +1100 Hamish Moffatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cum 
veritate scripsit :

> I looked at that configuration file. It appeared to me that
> there was enough info in there for reportbug just to use
> /usr/sbin/sendmail to deliver it, rather than using an MUA at all.

Some people do not have sendmail. I use "imput" for internet mail, 
and sendmail only reaches my local network. 

Maybe I'm weird.

regards,
junichi

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... Long Live Free Software, LIBERTAS OMNI VINCIT.


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Re: new experimental ISDNUTILS packages available

[Andreas Fuchs]

Today, Paul Slootman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've been promising this for a while, but now it's happened:
> The latest version of isdn4k-utils has been packaged.

Yippie!

[...]

> deb http://www.murphy.nl/~paul/debian isdnutils/
> After this, "apt-get update; apt-get install ipppd isdnlog-data"
> should install isdnutils, ipppd, isdnlog, and isdnlog-data.
> You should install any of the other packages that you need.

Nope, doesn't.
* ipppd is not there - 404 not found
* isdnutils won't be fetched by apt-get if there is an isdnutils
  already installed

I haven't tested the rest, like installing or configuring, but I will
post my results as replies to this article (ooh, bad form! (-:).

[nice features -- snip]

> Please let me know if you use this version, and keep me informed of
> ANYTHING, good or bad. I *do* mean anything, like spelling errors
> or a complete destruction of your /etc directory (I hope not :-)

Ah, yes. Where? Here, on -devel, privately, as BTS bugs, on a secret
and mystical mailing list? (-8*

For the moment, I'll settle down with -devel.

> Enjoy,
> Paul Slootman

Thanks,
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Alternatives to ftp.debian.org

[Dale Scheetz]

With all that is going on with ftp.debian.org, I just tried to check there
for alternative mirror sites and it's gone bye-bye.

So, I checked the web page, but the only primary site listed is
ftp.debian.org. The secondary sites are said to have restrictions, but
just what those are for any given server aren't clear.

I've reset sources.list on my sparc to point to http://us.debian.org, on
the assumption that I can probably use that site effectively.

Is there any better way to pick a useful ftp site for upgrading?

Thanks,

Dwarf
--
_-_-_-_-_-   Author of "The Debian Linux User's Guide"  _-_-_-_-_-_-

aka   Dale Scheetz   Phone:   1 (850) 656-9769
  Flexible Software  11000 McCrackin Road
  e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tallahassee, FL  32308

_-_-_-_-_-_- See www.linuxpress.com for more details  _-_-_-_-_-_-_-


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Re: Alternatives to ftp.debian.org

[Christian Surchi]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 05:39:24AM -0400, Dale Scheetz wrote:

> Is there any better way to pick a useful ftp site for upgrading?

Do you need a mirror to upgrade you system? What about using http?
http.us.debian.org points to many mirrors.

bye
Christian

-- 
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FLUG: http://www.firenze.linux.it | Debian GNU/Linux: http://www.debian.org 
-> http://www.firenze.linux.it/~csurchi <--
There is nothing wrong with abstinence, in moderation.


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apt-move problem

[Andreas Tille]

Hello,

I wanted to give apt-move a try:

~# dpkg --status apt-move
Package: apt-move
Status: install ok installed
Priority: optional
Section: admin
Installed-Size: 160
Maintainer: Herbert Xu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Version: 4.1.9

Unfortunately I get only syntax errors:

~# apt-move
/usr/bin/apt-move: line 122: syntax error near unexpected token `('
~# apt-move move
/usr/bin/apt-move: line 122: syntax error near unexpected token `('
~# apt-move get
/usr/bin/apt-move: line 122: syntax error near unexpected token `('

What am I doing wrong?

Kind regards

   Andreas.


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Re: new experimental ISDNUTILS packages available

[Paul Slootman]

On Thu 07 Sep 2000, Andreas Fuchs wrote:
> Today, Paul Slootman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I've been promising this for a while, but now it's happened:
> > The latest version of isdn4k-utils has been packaged.
> 
> Yippie!

:-)

> > deb http://www.murphy.nl/~paul/debian isdnutils/
> > After this, "apt-get update; apt-get install ipppd isdnlog-data"
> > should install isdnutils, ipppd, isdnlog, and isdnlog-data.
> > You should install any of the other packages that you need.
> 
> Nope, doesn't.
> * ipppd is not there - 404 not found

Bugger, I copied isdn*deb. I should have called it isdnpppd? :-/

> * isdnutils won't be fetched by apt-get if there is an isdnutils
>   already installed

Bugger, I forgot the fscking epoch in the depends.

> > Please let me know if you use this version, and keep me informed of

> Ah, yes. Where? Here, on -devel, privately, as BTS bugs, on a secret
> and mystical mailing list? (-8*

I think if it isn't too much, -devel will be fine (at least it'll also
be archived then). If necessary I can set up a mailing list at murphy.nl.

BTW: I'll be unavailable electronically this weekend (starting Friday
afternoon until Monday morning), so don't feel ignored if I don't reply
during that time.


Paul Slootman
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Re: apt-move problem

[Mika Fischer]

On Thu, 07 Sep at 16:59 +0200, Andreas Tille wrote:
> I wanted to give apt-move a try:
> 
> Unfortunately I get only syntax errors:
> 
> ~# apt-move
> /usr/bin/apt-move: line 122: syntax error near unexpected token `('
>
> What am I doing wrong?

I guess nothing. I had the same problem a few weeks ago and "solved" it by
editing the file manually.

I don´t know what went wrong in the first place, though. The syntax errors
were so obvious that it can´t possibly be typos.

Regards,
 Mika


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Re: alternatives for MUA and NUA?

[Paul Slootman]

On Thu 07 Sep 2000, Junichi Uekawa wrote:
> In Wed, 6 Sep 2000 23:10:32 +1100 Hamish Moffatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cum 
> veritate scripsit :

> > I looked at that configuration file. It appeared to me that
> > there was enough info in there for reportbug just to use
> > /usr/sbin/sendmail to deliver it, rather than using an MUA at all.
> 
> Some people do not have sendmail. I use "imput" for internet mail, 
> and sendmail only reaches my local network. 

I don't have sendmail; I have exim.
However, I *do* have /usr/sbin/sendmail.

Perhaps "imput" should have a /usr/sbin/sendmail - compatible wrapper?
Perhaps it already does?

> Maybe I'm weird.

No comment :-)


Paul Slootman
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Re: apt-move problem

[Paul Slootman]

On Thu 07 Sep 2000, Mika Fischer wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Sep at 16:59 +0200, Andreas Tille wrote:

> > I wanted to give apt-move a try:
> > 
> > Unfortunately I get only syntax errors:
> > 
> > ~# apt-move
> > /usr/bin/apt-move: line 122: syntax error near unexpected token `('
> >
> > What am I doing wrong?
> 
> I guess nothing. I had the same problem a few weeks ago and "solved" it by
> editing the file manually.
> 
> I don´t know what went wrong in the first place, though. The syntax errors
> were so obvious that it can´t possibly be typos.

Please check the BTS for apt-move, this is discussed externsively.
Apparently it's a (for me non-obvious) bug in bash.


Paul Slootman
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Re: RFC: GUI tools for common Debian admin tasks

[Steve Robbins]

Frederic,

I think that easier config is a worthy goal.  I have long mused about how
to teach a single tool about the myriad config files.  But I'm too lazy to
actually write one.

On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Frederic Peters wrote:

> Seth Cohn wrote :
> > >So, yes, why reinvent the wheel, if there are allready n^x conftools
> > >around with a new one popping up monthly (webmin, COAS, linuxconf,
> > >debconf, yast, ..., ..., ...) ? It's not going to make anything
> > >easier.
>
> > Agreed.  If you want to do something USEFUL, write a better webmin, debconf
> > or linuxconf module.
>
>  - webmin: I think it is useful (and nice) not to have to launch mozilla
>to add an user or change a password.
>  - debconf: dpkg-reconfigure users ? debconf is there to configure
>applications and I don't want to replace it at all. It is just not
>suited for some tasks
>  - linuxconf: Marco d'Itri sent a comment I agree with (excepted for
>the insecure part where I don't have enough knowledge to judge)

"why reinvent the wheel" was one of my first reactions, too.

I'm glad to see some discussion of alternatives.  I hope that someone
(Frederic?) will take notes and write a summary on a web page somewhere.
I'm reminded of the document that someone (Joey Hess?) wrote comparing
packaging tools.

I'd like to see a little more in depth comparison, though.  For example,
someone says that linuxconf "sucks, is buggy, and insecure"; but does that
make it harder to fix than to reinvent?  Why?  It is said to be "tainted
by redhat", but how about fixing it to allow customization for different
distribution flavours?  

I used linuxconf as an example, but the same questions apply to all other
config tools.  Gnome, for instance, has a config tool.  I'm sure kde does
too.  Presumably you want a tool independent of these desktops, but it
would be great if it interacted with Gnome's tool.  Maybe one could even
separate the back-end from the GNOME front-end, and re-use it?

Even if you can't use a single line of code from any of the existing
projects, studying them allows you to steal worthwhile ideas and learn
from their mistakes.

-S




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Re: Alternatives to ftp.debian.org

[dwarf]

> On Thu, Sept 07, 2000 Christian Surchi wrote:
>
> Do you need a mirror to upgrade you system? What about using http?
> http.us.debian.org point to many mirrors.

Funny you should mention this, as this is exactly the one I picked.

My question was more about how to pick one. The documentation on the
web pages indicates that these "secondary" mirrors have some
restrictions, but don't detail them. This makes it hard to decide
which ones might be suitable for my purposes, short of trying them
out. This seems to be working ok, although I was a bit disapointed
that the Packages files needed to be re-fetched. I guess the date
time stamp didn't match?

BTW, I'm sending this message without a mailer, so I appologize 
if I didn't get the headers right...

Thanks for the feedback,

Dwarf
--
no sig on sparc


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Re: new experimental ISDNUTILS packages available

[Andreas Fuchs]

Today, Paul Slootman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu 07 Sep 2000, Andreas Fuchs wrote:
>> Today, Paul Slootman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> deb http://www.murphy.nl/~paul/debian isdnutils/
>>> After this, "apt-get update; apt-get install ipppd isdnlog-data"
>>> should install isdnutils, ipppd, isdnlog, and isdnlog-data.
>>> You should install any of the other packages that you need.
>> Nope, doesn't.
>> * ipppd is not there - 404 not found

> Bugger, I copied isdn*deb. I should have called it isdnpppd? :-/

No, calling it ipppd is the Right Thing. I just finished downloading
it now. Installing...

delay time=10min />

Ah, yes.

I was upgrading from the last version in unstable (too lazy to look
right now) setting it up worked fine. The first screen in the postinst
of isdnlog looks a little ... bogus to me. Why does it tell me it is
going to ask me things that are ignored later?

Dialing out works fine, my ISP's webserver is pingable, so it should
work later, too.

Calling isdnrep is not working well: it's looking for the zone files
in /usr/lib/isdn/zone, but they are in /usr/lib/isdn/:
/usr/lib/isdn/rate-at.dat:@0 Defaultnumber not set, did you configure 
'mycountry'?
/usr/lib/isdn/rate-at.dat:@87 Zone V1.24: Error: gdbm_open 
'/usr/lib/isdn/zone-at-pta.dat': 'unknown'
/usr/lib/isdn/rate-at.dat:@326 Zone V1.24: Error: gdbm_open 
'/usr/lib/isdn/zone-at-pta.dat': 'unknown'
/usr/lib/isdn/rate-at.dat:@565 Zone V1.24: Error: gdbm_open 
'/usr/lib/isdn/zone-at-pta.dat': 'unknown'
/usr/lib/isdn/rate-at.dat:@804 Zone V1.24: Error: gdbm_open 
'/usr/lib/isdn/zone-at-pta.dat': 'unknown'
/usr/lib/isdn/rate-at.dat:@1045 Zone V1.24: Error: gdbm_open 
'/usr/lib/isdn/zone-at-1001.dat': 'unknown'
/usr/lib/isdn/rate-at.dat:@1252 Zone V1.24: Error: gdbm_open 
'/usr/lib/isdn/zone-at-1001.dat': 'unknown'
/usr/lib/isdn/rate-at.dat:@1459 Zone V1.24: Error: gdbm_open 
'/usr/lib/isdn/zone-at-1001.dat': 'unknown'
/usr/lib/isdn/rate-at.dat:@1666 Zone V1.24: Error: gdbm_open 
'/usr/lib/isdn/zone-at-1001.dat': 'unknown'
/usr/lib/isdn/rate-at.dat:@1873 Zone V1.24: Error: gdbm_open 
'/usr/lib/isdn/zone-at-1001.dat': 'unknown'
/usr/lib/isdn/rate-at.dat:@2204 Zone V1.24: Error: gdbm_open 
'/usr/lib/isdn/zone-at-pta.dat': 'unknown'
/usr/lib/isdn/rate-at.dat:@2319 Zone V1.24: Error: gdbm_open 
'/usr/lib/isdn/zone-at-1004.dat': 'unknown'
/usr/lib/isdn/rate-at.dat:@2351 Zone V1.24: Error: gdbm_open 
'/usr/lib/isdn/zone-at-1004.dat': 'unknown'
/usr/lib/isdn/rate-at.dat:@2434 Zone V1.24: Error: gdbm_open 
'/usr/lib/isdn/zone-at-1012.dat': 'unknown'
/usr/lib/isdn/rate-at.dat:@2598 Zone V1.24: Error: gdbm_open 
'/usr/lib/isdn/zone-at-pta.dat': 'unknown'
/usr/lib/isdn/rate-at.dat:@2806 Zone V1.24: Error: gdbm_open 
'/usr/lib/isdn/zone-at-1012.dat': 'unknown'
/usr/lib/isdn/rate-at.dat:@3056 Zone V1.24: Error: gdbm_open 
'/usr/lib/isdn/zone-at-pta.dat': 'unknown'
/usr/lib/isdn/rate-at.dat:@3091 Zone V1.24: Error: gdbm_open 
'/usr/lib/isdn/zone-at-1024.dat': 'unknown'
/usr/lib/isdn/rate-at.dat:@3176 Zone V1.24: Error: gdbm_open 
'/usr/lib/isdn/zone-at-pta.dat': 'unknown'
/usr/lib/isdn/rate-at.dat:@4209 Zone V1.24: Error: gdbm_open 
'/usr/lib/isdn/zone-at-1001.dat': 'unknown'
/usr/lib/isdn/rate-at.dat:@4487 Zone V1.24: Error: gdbm_open 
'/usr/lib/isdn/zone-at-1066.dat': 'unknown'

I haven't encountered any Big Evil Space Mutants, so I guess I will
try setting it up from scratch later, this evening perhaps.

>> * isdnutils won't be fetched by apt-get if there is an isdnutils
>> already installed

> Bugger, I forgot the fscking epoch in the depends.

Heh. Downloading it per wget and putting it into apt's archives dir
worked fine for now. Later, you should fix it, of course (-:

>> Ah, yes. Where? Here, on -devel, privately, as BTS bugs, on a secret
>> and mystical mailing list? (-8*

> I think if it isn't too much, -devel will be fine (at least it'll also
> be archived then). If necessary I can set up a mailing list at murphy.nl.

Ok. -devel it is, then.

> BTW: I'll be unavailable electronically this weekend (starting Friday
> afternoon until Monday morning), so don't feel ignored if I don't reply
> during that time.

Alright. I think I won't touch my computer then, either. They say it's
going to be a sunny weekend. Paintball! Paintball! {-:

> Paul Slootman

regards,
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SMTP,
antifuchsin IRCNet and
Relf Herbstfresser, Male 1/2 Elf Priest  in AD&D

Re: apt-move problem

[Peter S Galbraith]

Andreas Tille wrote:

> I wanted to give apt-move a try:
> Unfortunately I get only syntax errors:
> 
> ~# apt-move
> /usr/bin/apt-move: line 122: syntax error near unexpected token `('

It's a bug in bash.  You may work around it by setting ash as
your /bin/sh shell instead of bash.

My current problem with apt-move is that it wants to delete every
single deb file I have (instead of only those that have never
versions on hand).  Also, it makes completely empty Packages.gz
files for me.  Now that I have made Packages.gz file by hand, I'm
affraid to use `apt-move packages' and overwrite them to test
anything.  :-(

Peter



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Debian and KDE

[Ben Woodhead]

>From the article I have read about debian Stand On KDE, which said that
debian would like to help kde get there license issues resolved so kde could
be put into debian. Perhaps, that was not the case, and debian just wanted
to kick kde because you guys don't like it and the license issue was just a
reason for the kicking. 
If I was wrong, I would have expected to see some news on the homepage
saying "Yeah, KDEs is completely GPLed and will be included in debian", or
at least something like that. After all the reading I did where debian was
saying that they would love to have kde but its not free. Well its FREE know
and I still don't see any of the people that where complaining about the
license saying something about it. 
>From my guess, I would say all the people that where talking about the
licensing issues are know just trying to think of something else to bitch
about.
Debian stands for something and I am proud of that, after all everybody else
jumped on the bandwagon for making money but Linux did not get this far from
money, they got here for the opposite reason. But I also think its about
time to say, great TrollTech caved and fixed the license, so you won and
that is GREAT, but its time to be real winners and say KDE is now free and
has the debian approval. After all that was (supposedly) the only problem.

Cheers Ben


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Re: new experimental ISDNUTILS packages available

[Andreas Fuchs]

Today, I <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Calling isdnrep is not working well: it's looking for the zone files
> in /usr/lib/isdn/zone, but they are in /usr/lib/isdn/:

Oh, silly me. I had configured isdnrep to look specifically there, in
/etc/isdn/isdn.conf. Fixed this now, let's see if it works...



No. Misconfigured before and I am too lazy to tidy it up. Seems like I
will configure-from-scratch it now (-:


> regards,


again, (-:
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SMTP,
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Relf Herbstfresser, Male 1/2 Elf Priest  in AD&D


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Re: RFC: GUI tools for common Debian admin tasks

[Seth Cohn]

On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Nate Duehr wrote:

> Linuxconf is very broken (and it's documented in the Readme's provided
> with the .deb) on Debian, and it mangles perfectly good config files
> into nasty-looking ones that sysadmins who prefer vi usually dislike
> reading. 

Another point in webmin's favor.  I was pleasantly surprised when I
discovered that editing mail aliases in webmin _didn't_ blow up my heavily
commented /etc/aliases file.  In fact, it respected the # signs,
understood that they were disabled entries, and left everything intact.  
I personally use an line editor on it, but this way, someone can, if need
be, add an alias and NOT screw my systems up.

Another thing in webmin's favor: it currently supports BSD and Solaris
and more:

  Operating system  Supported versions

  Sun Solaris   2.5 , 2.5.1 , 2.6 , 7 , 8
  Caldera OpenLinux eServer 2.3
  Caldera OpenLinux 2.3 , 2.4
  Redhat Linux  4.0 , 4.1 , 4.2 , 5.0 , 5.1 , 5.2 , 6.0 , 6.1 , 6.2
  Slackware Linux   3.2 , 3.3 , 3.4 , 3.5 , 3.6 , 4.0 , 7.0
  Debian Linux  1.3 , 2.0 , 2.1 , 2.2
  SuSE Linux5.1 , 5.2 , 5.3 , 6.0 , 6.1 , 6.2 , 6.3 , 6.4
  Corel Linux   1.0 , 1.1
  TurboLinux4.0 , 6.0
  Cobalt Linux  2.2 , 5.0
  Mandrake Linux5.3 , 6.0 , 6.1 , 7.0 , 7.1
  Delix DLD Linux   5.2 , 5.3 , 6.0
  MkLinux   DR2.1 , DR3
  XLinux1.0
  LinuxPL   1.0
  Linux From Scratch2.2
  FreeBSD   2.1 , 2.2 , 3.0 , 3.1 , 3.2 , 3.3 , 3.4 , 4.0 , 5.0
  OpenBSD   2.5 , 2.6 , 2.7
  BSDI  3.0 , 3.1 , 4.0
  HP/UX 10.01 , 10.10 , 10.20 , 10.30 , 11
  SGI Irix  6.0 , 6.1 , 6.2
  DEC/Compaq OSF/1  4.0
  IBM AIX   4.3
  SCO UnixWare  7 , 2
  SCO OpenServer5
  MacOS Server X1.0 , 1.2
   
This is good for Debian, since we want something cross-platform, and
possibly even cross-kernel (Hurd, anyone?).  Adding a network config for
Debian, a dpkg/apt module, and a debconf module, I think we'd be all
set...

Jaldhar, can you pry yourself away from imap for a few minutes and get the
webmin stuff uploaded to incoming? :)  I'd like to see what's you've
changed...


















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Re: Debian and KDE

[Daniel Burrows]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 12:51:23PM -0300, Ben Woodhead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was 
heard to say:
> If I was wrong, I would have expected to see some news on the homepage
> saying "Yeah, KDEs is completely GPLed and will be included in debian", or
> at least something like that. After all the reading I did where debian was
> saying that they would love to have kde but its not free. Well its FREE know
> and I still don't see any of the people that where complaining about the
> license saying something about it. 

  Why?  We've said in the past that we would include KDE when the license
changed, and are now in the process of doing that.  See
http://incoming.debian.org if you don't believe me.

  Actions speak louder than words (IMO), or should.

  Daniel

-- 
/- Daniel Burrows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -\
|  CCs of list  |  Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the   |
|  replies are  |  process he does not become a monster.  And when you look   |
|welcome.   |  into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you.  |
|   |   -- Friedrich Nietzsche|
\--- (if (not (understand-this)) (go-to http://www.schemers.org)) /


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Re: Debian and KDE

[Jules Bean]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 12:51:23PM -0300, Ben Woodhead wrote:
> >From the article I have read about debian Stand On KDE, which said that
> debian would like to help kde get there license issues resolved so kde could
> be put into debian. Perhaps, that was not the case, and debian just wanted
> to kick kde because you guys don't like it and the license issue was just a
> reason for the kicking. 

You should be careful making allegations like that. It makes you sound
like a... no, I won't use words like that on a public mailing list ;-)

> If I was wrong, I would have expected to see some news on the homepage
> saying "Yeah, KDEs is completely GPLed and will be included in debian", or
> at least something like that. After all the reading I did where debian was
> saying that they would love to have kde but its not free. Well its FREE know
> and I still don't see any of the people that where complaining about the
> license saying something about it. 

Don't you?  Maybe you've been looking in the wrong place.  It was
discussed three time on this mailing list, which is public, and the
KDE debian maintainer has been openly discussing his plans to upload
Qt and KDE to main shortly.

> >From my guess, I would say all the people that where talking about the
> licensing issues are know just trying to think of something else to bitch
> about.

Well, maybe you should your guesses to yourself if you're just going
to be rude.

> Debian stands for something and I am proud of that, after all everybody else
> jumped on the bandwagon for making money but Linux did not get this far from
> money, they got here for the opposite reason. But I also think its about
> time to say, great TrollTech caved and fixed the license, so you won and
> that is GREAT, but its time to be real winners and say KDE is now free and
> has the debian approval. After all that was (supposedly) the only problem.

It indeed was the only problem, and KDE is going to be installed in
debian.

One of the several threads on debian-devel which made it quite clear
that this is going to happen is archived starting at

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-0009/msg00329.html

So lets stop mudslinging, no?

Jules


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Re: Debian and KDE

[Colin Watson]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 12:51:23PM -0300, Ben Woodhead wrote:
> If I was wrong, I would have expected to see some news on the homepage
> saying "Yeah, KDEs is completely GPLed and will be included in debian", or
> at least something like that. After all the reading I did where debian was
> saying that they would love to have kde but its not free. Well its FREE know
> and I still don't see any of the people that where complaining about the
> license saying something about it. 

Before I post to a widely-read mailing list, I usually try to check the
archives first to find out whether it's already been discussed, because
I don't really like making a fool of myself in front of hundreds or
thousands of people. From just two days ago, see:

  http://www.debian.org/Lists-Archives/debian-devel-0009/msg00329.html

-- 
Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: RFC: GUI tools for common Debian admin tasks

[Seth Cohn]

> This is good for Debian, since we want something cross-platform, and
> possibly even cross-kernel (Hurd, anyone?).  Adding a network config for
> Debian,

Rene Mayrhofer said he was making a start on this.  He's away for a few
weeks, when he gets back, I'll find out how far he's come.

> a dpkg/apt module,

Someone pointed out to me that dpkg is already part of the standard
software package module.  No apt module though.

Seth



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QT on alpha potato does not compile

[Ullrich Martini]

I am trying to compile qt 2.2 on a alpha with potato, g++ 2.95.2-13
using  rkrustys patches from the
intel qt 2.2 diffs. I get lots of internal compiler errors on the files
generated by moc (moc_*.cpp), and
uic segfaults when compiling  tools/designer/designer/listboxeditor.ui

It looks like a alpha-gcc problem. The internal compiler errors go away
if the files
are compiled without optimization. I will file a bug against gcc because
of that.

The uic problem occurred when building the designer.  I think the Qt
designer should go into
a separate package anyway.

The kde people had similiar bugs against kde2 betas in their bugtracking
system, but they closed them because they had a modified version of qt
which appearently fixed the problems. It looks like those patches didn't
find their way back to the trolls.
Anyway, did someone succeed in building qt-2.2 on a alpha/potato?

thanks, Ullrich


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Debian and KDE: Appology

[Ben Woodhead]

Hello everybody

First I would like to give my appologies, I was not aware of the incomming
directory and I have been told that kde will be included. I would also like
to say that I personally do not use kde nor am a developer for them, my
consern was with the conflicts between linux. Competition is a good thing,
unless its taken to far and as of yet I have not seen anybody that was
talking about the lisence tell the community that the problem has been
resolved and we are glad to hear it.

Cheers, Ben
ps I did not mean it in a flaming sort of way, although re-reading the
letter gave me that feeling, please make a statement to the community, you
are a very important part of it, and as of yet debian has not made a
comment, FSF made a condesending comment (I don't know if it was afficial or
not but its been on the top of every news site).



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Re: apt-move problem

[Steve Robbins]

On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Peter S Galbraith wrote:

> My current problem with apt-move is that it wants to delete every
> single deb file I have (instead of only those that have never
> versions on hand).  Also, it makes completely empty Packages.gz
> files for me.

I dunno about the first, but I have seen the second problem.  In my case,
it was caused by a bug in dpk-scanpackages (from dpkg-dev); see bug #51479
in BTS.

-S




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Re: new experimental ISDNUTILS packages available

[Andreas Fuchs]

(I already replied to this, but I figured that would be "better style"
than replying to my own mails three times in a row.)

Today, Paul Slootman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Please let me know if you use this version, and keep me informed of
> ANYTHING, good or bad. I *do* mean anything, like spelling errors
> or a complete destruction of your /etc directory (I hope not :-)

OK. I just set up the isdnutils from scratch. I had to fiddle with
them a bit:

ls -lid ipppd isdnutils isdnlog isdnlog-data
  22500 drwxr-xr-x3 root root 1.0k Sep  7 18:05 ipppd/
  22523 drwxr-xr-x3 root root 1.0k Sep  7 18:05 isdnlog/
  22559 drwxr-xr-x2 root root 1.0k Sep  7 18:05 isdnlog-data/
  22449 drwxr-xr-x3 root root 1.0k Sep  7 18:05 isdnutils/
ls -l isdn*/examples/default ipppd/examples/default
ipppd/examples/default:
total 4.0k
-rw-r--r--1 root root  316 Sep  6 12:07 auth-down
-rw-r--r--1 root root  317 Sep  6 12:07 auth-up
-rw-r--r--1 root root 1.7k Sep  6 12:07 ipppd.DEVICE.gz

isdnlog/examples/default:
total 5.0k
-rw-r--r--1 root root 1.1k Sep  6 12:07 callerid.conf
-rw-r--r--1 root root  857 Sep  6 12:07 isdn.conf
-rw-r--r--1 root root 1.2k Sep  6 12:07 isdnlog.DEVICE

isdnutils/examples/default:
total 5.0k
-rw-r--r--1 root root 4.3k Sep  6 12:07 device.DEVICE.gz

You see, isdnconfig tries to copy from
/usr/share/doc/isdnutils/examples/defaults/ipppd.DEVICE to
/etc/isdn/ipppd.$device.

Now, ipppd.DEVICE is named ipppd.DEVICE.gz (arghl, automatic gzipping
in docs dir?). And it resides in /usr/share/doc/ipppd/...!

So, would you mind making a symbolic link to the doc dir? Removing
.../ipppd.DEVICE from the documentation list should work, also.

regards,
-- 
Andreas Stefan Fuchs in Real Life aka
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] in NNTP and 
SMTP,
antifuchsin IRCNet and
Relf Herbstfresser, Male 1/2 Elf Priest  in AD&D

Re: apt-move problem

[Arthur Korn]

Peter S Galbraith schrieb:
> My current problem with apt-move is that it wants to delete every
> single deb file I have

For my archive it was to late:

19M /home/pub/debian

That was ~250M before ... oops. Time to use http and squid
instead ...

ciao, 2ri
-- 
Note that there are two possible orientations of the log. If the end with the
larger diameter is facing downstream, the log is said to be big-endian;
otherwise, it is little-endian.
-- Philip Willoughby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Segfault.org


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Re: ITP: Source-Navigator

[Eray Ozkural]

Yep, I ITP'ed sourcenav and insight.. a _minor_ problem with
the tcl/tk stuff, but I think I'll just wrap it up soon.

Thanks,

-- 
Eray (exa) Ozkural
Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo


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Re: ITP: Source-Navigator

[Eray Ozkural]

I ITP'd this before, hands off :) Why don't you check the list BTW?
And the wnpp? That's why the BTS is being used, right?

Here are the bug report numbers for your reference

#68583: ITP: Insight
#68584: ITP: sourcenav

These are the ITP's I made some time ago, still working on them.
I've had a machine crash, etc, but I still intend to do it.


Thanks,

-- 
Eray (exa) Ozkural
Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo


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Re: QT on alpha potato does not compile

[Christopher C. Chimelis]

On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Ullrich Martini wrote:

> I am trying to compile qt 2.2 on a alpha with potato, g++ 2.95.2-13
> using  rkrustys patches from the
> intel qt 2.2 diffs. I get lots of internal compiler errors on the files
> generated by moc (moc_*.cpp), and
> uic segfaults when compiling  tools/designer/designer/listboxeditor.ui
> 
> It looks like a alpha-gcc problem. The internal compiler errors go away
> if the files
> are compiled without optimization. I will file a bug against gcc because
> of that.

Good idea...make sure that the bug submission has complete info for
forwarding to the gcc list (see their submission guidelines).  I only ask
because I'll probably be the one reproducing it when someone asks :-)

> The uic problem occurred when building the designer.  I think the Qt
> designer should go into
> a separate package anyway.

Agreed, but I'm not the maintainer, so my opinions matter little :-P

> The kde people had similiar bugs against kde2 betas in their bugtracking
> system, but they closed them because they had a modified version of qt
> which appearently fixed the problems. It looks like those patches didn't
> find their way back to the trolls.
> Anyway, did someone succeed in building qt-2.2 on a alpha/potato?

I removed optimisation for the woody builds of the beta Qt
versions.  We run into quite a few optimiser bugs on Alpha, so we're used
to working around them if they're easily defeatable.  FYI, though, most of
the ICEs that I ran into were because of problems in the code that I'm
compiling.  Either way, they shouldn't have come up (since the code was
technically correct, albeit loosely), but it may be worth looking at the
offending code to see what it might be choking on.  I've also found that
it helps to try compiling the offending files with '-save-temps -v' so
that I can see what's going on in the generated assembly (if any) and from
a command point of view.  I then play with the optimisation switches (the
individual ones, not just -O2/-O1/etc) to see which is causing the
problem and hopefully why.  Don't think I got around to it yet on the Qt
code, though.

C


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Re: ITP: Source-Navigator

[Christopher C. Chimelis]

On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Eray Ozkural wrote:

> Yep, I ITP'ed sourcenav and insight.. a _minor_ problem with
> the tcl/tk stuff, but I think I'll just wrap it up soon.

Fantastic.  I emailed you off-list about some ideas on how to handle that,
in case you needed the tips (doubt you will, but just in case).  I'm
looking forward to playing with insight more ;-)

C


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Re: Debian and KDE

[Ivan E. Moore II]

Hi,

as Maintainer of KDE for Debian I'd like to chime in.  kdelibs, kdesupport,
and kdoc all are sitting in incoming.  We had to wait till yesterday for qt2.2
to come out so that I could build it, then compile kde against it since
the GPL'd status doesn't mean squat if you build against the old libs which
aren't GPL'd. :)

This was all discussed on debian-devel and I was interviewed by a few online
magswhether any of that went anywhere is not my problem.


On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 12:51:23PM -0300, Ben Woodhead wrote:
> >From the article I have read about debian Stand On KDE, which said that
> debian would like to help kde get there license issues resolved so kde could
> be put into debian. Perhaps, that was not the case, and debian just wanted
> to kick kde because you guys don't like it and the license issue was just a
> reason for the kicking. 
> If I was wrong, I would have expected to see some news on the homepage
> saying "Yeah, KDEs is completely GPLed and will be included in debian", or
> at least something like that. After all the reading I did where debian was
> saying that they would love to have kde but its not free. Well its FREE know
> and I still don't see any of the people that where complaining about the
> license saying something about it. 

Ivan

-- 

Ivan E. Moore II
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://snowcrash.tdyc.com
GPG KeyID=90BCE0DD
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Re: QT on alpha potato does not compile

[Ivan E. Moore II]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 06:16:12PM +0200, Ullrich Martini wrote:
> I am trying to compile qt 2.2 on a alpha with potato, g++ 2.95.2-13
> using  rkrustys patches from the
> intel qt 2.2 diffs. I get lots of internal compiler errors on the files
> generated by moc (moc_*.cpp), and
> uic segfaults when compiling  tools/designer/designer/listboxeditor.ui
> 
> It looks like a alpha-gcc problem. The internal compiler errors go away
> if the files
> are compiled without optimization. I will file a bug against gcc because
> of that.

I had a similar problem on my alpha but chose to deal with it later. :)

> The uic problem occurred when building the designer.  I think the Qt
> designer should go into
> a separate package anyway.
> 

it will since I want to turn on the KDE extensions which means that qt needs
to be built first, then kde, then designer

> The kde people had similiar bugs against kde2 betas in their bugtracking
> system, but they closed them because they had a modified version of qt
> which appearently fixed the problems. It looks like those patches didn't
> find their way back to the trolls.
> Anyway, did someone succeed in building qt-2.2 on a alpha/potato?

I'll see if I can find more infoz on it.

Ivan

-- 

Ivan E. Moore II
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://snowcrash.tdyc.com
GPG KeyID=90BCE0DD
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Re: Python 1.6 released and GPL incompatible

[Joey Hess]

Gregor Hoffleit wrote:
> Still, if 1.6 were to replace 1.5.2, we had to check all packages that 
> depend on Python, if we think their license is still compatible with the 
> new Python license, and remove them if it's not. I'd opt against this.

Hm, I'm confused. Are you saying that you think that code written in
pthon must have a license that is compatable with python's license?

I don't see us making this kind of check for code written in perl, or
code wirtten in C, or any other language.

Or are you really only talking about packages that dymanically or
statically link with python?


BTW, welcome to slashdot and linuxtoday. :-P

-- 
see shy jo


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Re: Problems with mail system? [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]

[Adam McKenna]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 03:19:06AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> People like Mr. Jones don't like to consider impacts.  They like easy rules
> and easy policies.  They don't like to do analysis.  And they especially
> don't like to be inconvenienced by considerations of the impact of their
> actions on a larger system.  Because that's Hard.  Nobody likes Hard work.

People sending mail from dialups and IP's without reverse DNS have several
choices:

1) Use their ISP's mail server to send mail and/or get their ISP to fix the
problem.
2) Ask a friend for an SSH account on a box that mail can be routed through.
3) Come up with a better way to block spam, so that everyone can stop using
RBL/RSS/DUL.
4) Do nothing except whine and cry every time the issue comes up in a public
conversation.

It seems that #4 is the preferred choice for some of the poeple on this list.

> Nobody said fairness or intelligence were easily come by, either.  Does it
> follow that we should not encourage their cultivation?

I hereby dub thee "Duke of False Analogies".

--Adam


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Re: Debian and KDE

[Peter S Galbraith]

"Ivan E. Moore II" wrote:

> as Maintainer of KDE for Debian I'd like to chime in.
[clip]
> I was interviewed by a few online
> magswhether any of that went anywhere is not my problem.

http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/opinions/2281/1/

Editor's Note: KDE to be Part of Debian GNU/Linux
KDE to End Up in Woody


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Re: new experimental ISDNUTILS packages available

[Paul Slootman]

On Thu 07 Sep 2000, Andreas Fuchs wrote:

> Today, I <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Calling isdnrep is not working well: it's looking for the zone files
> > in /usr/lib/isdn/zone, but they are in /usr/lib/isdn/:

In /usr/share/isdn/ actually.

> Oh, silly me. I had configured isdnrep to look specifically there, in
> /etc/isdn/isdn.conf. Fixed this now, let's see if it works...
> 
> 
> 
> No. Misconfigured before and I am too lazy to tidy it up. Seems like I
> will configure-from-scratch it now (-:

You can also copy an example isdn.conf for .de from
/usr/share/doc/isdnlog/examples/isdn.conf.de.gz which should have the
correct settings. Or throw away your /etc/isdn/isdn.conf and run
dpkg-reconfigure isdnlog :-)


Paul Slootman
-- 
home:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wurtel.demon.nl/
work:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.murphy.nl/
debian: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.debian.org/
isdn4linux: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.isdn4linux.de/


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Re: new experimental ISDNUTILS packages available

[Paul Slootman]

On Thu 07 Sep 2000, Andreas Fuchs wrote:

> You see, isdnconfig tries to copy from
> /usr/share/doc/isdnutils/examples/defaults/ipppd.DEVICE to
> /etc/isdn/ipppd.$device.
> 
> Now, ipppd.DEVICE is named ipppd.DEVICE.gz (arghl, automatic gzipping
> in docs dir?). And it resides in /usr/share/doc/ipppd/...!

Actually, that's not the problem, it's always been like that,
also in the old version. The problem is that the new config
script doesn't rename it properly (I had started to make a
debconf script to configure an ipppd interface, but then ran
out of inspiration :-/  and thought that it would be better
to release what I had first, so that adventurous people could
test the basics (thanks!)

> So, would you mind making a symbolic link to the doc dir? Removing
> .../ipppd.DEVICE from the documentation list should work, also.

I just need to fix the script... Maybe tomorrow, otherwise early
next week.

Thanks,
Paul Slootman
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Re: new experimental ISDNUTILS packages available

[Andreas Fuchs]

Today, Paul Slootman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu 07 Sep 2000, Andreas Fuchs wrote:
>> Today, I <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > Calling isdnrep is not working well: it's looking for the zone files
>> > in /usr/lib/isdn/zone, but they are in /usr/lib/isdn/:

> In /usr/share/isdn/ actually.

Jep. Local configuration error (-:

regards,
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End of the line for Epic?

[David N. Welton]

I'm wondering if anyone still uses this package anymore.  It has been
superceded by epic4 for hrmmm it must be several years.

Is it time for it to go?  It's not like it's broken or it has any
hideous bugs, but it's not going anyplace, either.

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