Re: Is there a maintainer for the install doc?

[Sven Rudolph]

Igor Grobman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> > Is anyone maintaining the Debian installation manual?
> > I know that Sven is no longer doing it. If not,
> > we will need a volunteer.
> 
> I'd like to maintain it.  I plan to  be active on the 
> testing front, so I should be aware of all the quirks with the installation 
> and upgrading.  
> 
> BTW, are the .txt and .html files generated from sgml source?

Yes.

>  If so, where is the sgml version located?

It is part of the boot-floppies source.

Sven
-- 
Sven Rudolph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://www.sax.de/~sr1/


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Re: Debian 2.0 release requirements

[Joey Hess]

Dale Scheetz wrote:
> This one is new to me...I have been waiting for the menu system to
> stabalize. I guess this means that it has?

There have been no changes to the menu package since Oct 1997. There are
several open bug reports, but these will hopefully be fixed now that Joost
is less busy. It's very stable, featureful, and ready.

> Is there a description in the Policy Manual?

See section 3.7 of the policy manual.

> More important is there a
> good example of how to impliment this and will it make it into the
> Programmers Manual?

/usr/doc/menu/html/ describes everything you need to know. I think it's too
long (800 lines) to go into the programmer's manual.

-- 
see shy jo


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Emacsen intermediate step proposal.

[Rob Browning]

I'd like to propose the following changes as an intermediate step
toward a more unified handling of the various emacs flavors.  Feedback
would be appreciated, especially from the other affected emacs
maintainers.

1) Have all emacs flavors add "Provides: emacsen" to their control
file.  It would be nice to just use emacs as the virtual package name
rather than emacsen, but I don't think we can do that and maintain
automatic upgrades.  I'm no expert on dpkg upgrade behavior, so I'd be
happy to be corrected.  Ideally we'd like to move emacs to be emacs19,
and let emacs be the virtual package name.  Perhaps some clever
control files in emacs19 and the new helper package propsed in (4)
could work around this problem.  Ideas?

2) Modify all emacsen so that they automatically execute
(debian-run-directory) before sourcing /etc/emacs/site-start.el.  A
patch to startup.el for emacs 20 is posted below.  A similar hack
should work for emacs 19 and xemacs.  This, combined with (4) will let
us remove the run-directory call from site-start.el and then make it a
conffile.

4) Create a new package which all flavors of emacs depend on called
emacsen-common.  This package will contain common files and
pre/postinst code that all emacsen need.  It will conflict with older
versions of emacs.

This would be a small package, but it will solve some annoying emacsen
package overlap issues.  For now, it would become responsible for
/etc/emacs/site-start.{el,d}, debian-rundir.el, 00debian-vars.el, and
in the long run, it would contain the code implementing any
auto-byte-compile scheme we come up with.  For now all the elisp code
in emacsen-common would be mandated to be flavor independent.


--- lisp/startup.el~Fri Sep 19 13:13:44 1997
+++ lisp/startup.el Tue Jan  6 16:11:49 1998
@@ -580,6 +580,10 @@

   (run-hooks 'before-init-hook)

+  ;; Load all the debian package snippets.
+  (load "debian-rundir")
+  (debian-run-directory)
+
   ;; Run the site-start library if it exists.  The point of this file is
   ;; that it is run before .emacs.  There is no point in doing this after
   ;; .emacs; that is useless.

-- 
Rob Browning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
PGP fingerprint = E8 0E 0D 04 F5 21 A0 94  53 2B 97 F5 D6 4E 39 30


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Re: Debian 2.0 release requirements

[Christian Schwarz]

On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Dale Scheetz wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Christian Schwarz wrote:
> 
> > All applications registered to menus
> > 
> >  The menu package included in the Debian distribution stores
> >  information about which applications are installed on the system
> >  and provides this data for X11 window managers or text-based menu
> >  programs like pdmenu. With that, the user always has up-to-date
> >  application menus, no matter which packages are installed or which
> >  menu program is used.
> > 
> This one is new to me...I have been waiting for the menu system to
> stabalize. I guess this means that it has?
> 
> Is there a description in the Policy Manual? More important is there a
> good example of how to impliment this and will it make it into the
> Programmers Manual?

It's already policy. Check out section 3.7 of policy 2.3.0.1.


Thanks,

Chris

--  Christian Schwarz
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Linux

[Dauer]

I e-mailed a question to this address a while back and you answered. So I
have a question...I can not put Linux on my hard drive and I can't put it on
my Syquest for some reason. So where could I find a boot disk like the kind
I use to access DOS?? Just something to give me a shell like the one that is
on the rescue disk. Sorry if you are the wrong person to ask.


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Re: Debian 2.0 release requirements

[bhmit1]

Attention all package maintainers:

Just a note that the testing group would like to have an idea of how to
test the individual packages (before we were only seeing if it would
install).  All we are asking for is a checklist (and a script if you
want), which in the most general sense says: "this program should do this,
that program should do that".  Please send them to my email, with the
subject "Checklist request" (so I can sort them out).  If you've missed
the previous messages about this, just drop me a line and I'll give you
the full details and an example.

Thanks,
Brandon

-
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PGP: finger -l [EMAIL PROTECTED]  does infinite loops in 5 seconds"
Phone: (757) 221-4847  --Linus Torvalds


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Re: Debian 2.0 release requirements

[Gergely Madarasz]

On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Alex Yukhimets wrote:

> 
> it is nice property of "less" (as opposed to "more") that it filters
> out all non-ascii charachters (changes them to some ^... printable
> sequencies). As a result, it is not possible to trash the console by
> doing "less " or, more important - if something
> bad happened and you created a file(s) with some non-ascii charachters,
> "ls" will trash the console while "ls | less" will show you everything
> and let you delete it.

I think that LESSCHARSET=latin1 as default wouldn't trash your console and
it would show most of what it should show ... 

--
Madarasz Gergely   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  It's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry.
  Egy pingvinre gyakorlatilag lehetetlen haragosan nezni.
  HuLUG: http://www.cab.u-szeged.hu/local/linux/



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Re: libc5 to libc6 auto-upgrade script

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Thu, Jan 08, 1998 at 09:52:00AM +1100, Craig Sanders wrote:
> # development because libc5 can't be upgraded to latest without removal
> # of libc5-dev which also necessitates removal of other -dev packages
> # like libdb1-dev and libdl1-dev if they are installed.
> 
> DEVPACKAGES=`dpkg --get-selections | 
>   grep -- -dev | 
>   grep -v deinstall | 
>   cut -f1`

Is there any way you could mark these dev packages to be installed
at the end, by dselect when next run? That would be a nice touch I think.

hamish
-- 
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Latest Debian packages at ftp://ftp.rising.com.au/pub/hamish. PGP#EFA6B9D5
CCs of replies from mailing lists are welcome.   http://hamish.home.ml.org


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Re: Debian 2.0 release requirements

[Hamish Moffatt]

On Thu, Jan 08, 1998 at 01:21:41AM +0100, Christian Schwarz wrote:
> > On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Christian Schwarz wrote:
> > > All applications registered to menus

> It's already policy. Check out section 3.7 of policy 2.3.0.1.

Could "applications" be spelt out a bit more? Clearly menu entries are only
useful for interactive tools.


Hamish
-- 
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Latest Debian packages at ftp://ftp.rising.com.au/pub/hamish. PGP#EFA6B9D5
CCs of replies from mailing lists are welcome.   http://hamish.home.ml.org


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Re: Debian 2.0 release requirements

[Vincent Renardias]

On Wed, 7 Jan 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Just a note that the testing group would like to have an idea of how to
> test the individual packages (before we were only seeing if it would
> install).  All we are asking for is a checklist (and a script if you
> want), which in the most general sense says: "this program should do this,
> that program should do that".  Please send them to my email, with the
> subject "Checklist request" (so I can sort them out).  If you've missed
> the previous messages about this, just drop me a line and I'll give you
> the full details and an example.


If such scripts are written, I suggest they are run from debian/rules at
package build time. (some packages already do this (some perl modules for
example)) This way, testers will be able to focus their attention on
things that can NOT be done automatically...

--
- Vincent RENARDIAS [EMAIL PROTECTED],pipo.com,debian.org} -
- Debian/GNU Linux:   Pipo:WAW:   -
- http://www.fr.debian.orghttp://www.pipo.com  http://www.waw.com -
---
- "La fonctionnalite Son Visuel vous delivre des avertissements visuels." -
-  [Message durant l'installation de Windows95] :wq


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Re: Bug#16727: project: xload is no longer available.

[Mark W. Eichin]

Yeah, it was specifically left out of xcontrib, because the procps one
was a lot better: from dpkg --status,
>  xfontsel, xgc, xman, and xmessage. (xload is in xproc now.)

Did the procps upstream give any *reason* they don't include xload
anymore?  Could the current procps maintainer keep it in as a diff anyway?


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Re: perl5.004 for bo

[David Morton]

On 07-Jan-98 Martin Schulze wrote:
> Please file a bug report against the perl package.

I might do that, If I have time... but it really should have been taken care of
already...

> I the meantime you can try the packages I have compiled for
> a much simplier reason:

I appreciate the offer, but it is too late.  I re-formatted, and installed
RedHat.   The bottom line:  I needed something that works, and fast.


> Why not just grab the perl 5.004 source and just compile it?
> That's what I've done iirc.

yeah yeah...  I don't mind that one bit when living on the bleeding edge, 
but when in a production environment,  it just doesn't cut it.   The
perl install process had too many question to which I didn't know for sure
what the answer was.  Maybe the defaults were ok...  but I just don't have the 
time to fuss with it. 

> 
>> I wasted 5 hours yesterday trying to get 5.004 installed, but to no
>> avail.  If Debian is interested in keeping commercial use
>> of Linux, this kind of issue needs to be fixed ASAP.
> 
> This sounds quite unfriendly for me.  Who pays us that we
> *have to* update the packages?  I'd appreciate any hint for
> security fixes or things that we had forgotton (we're only
> humans, you know?) but I get offended if people are telling
> me what I _have to_ do in my spare time.

I'm not attacking any one person.  I'm not attacking anyone.  Here's the scoop:
I hung around on IRC for a while, and the only suggestions were to try the
5.003 patch on 5.004 (impossible task)  or upgrade to hamm.  Both are very 
frustrating when the whole thing needed to be installed and running hours 
before.

I found on the website that the security bug in perl was indeed found.  I'm just
 wondering why it wasn't applied to bo.  I guess to sum it all up, I'm trying to
 say to the debian organization as a whole:  don't focus on hamm so much that
bo gets out of date!   The business world will never run hamm until it is 
declared stable (and maybe not even then)  Sure, RedHat 5.0 may be a big hit,
but I'll bet that very few business have upgraded yet.  (Hopefully, as it's 
still buggy)

> Again: Please file a bugreport against perl so that a new
> perl will be installed in bo alias stable.

Thanks Joey, I will indeed do that.  I may not use it anytime in the near 
future, but I will contribute nonetheless.  I mean no offense to you or anyone.
I just can't use a system that is "so close, yet so far". 

My apologies if I came across rude, I am upset that I lost 5 hours of 
work due to such a silly problem, which IMHO should not have existed in the 
first place.

I just wonder how something this big slipped past so many people for this long.


David Morton 
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   
Date: 07-Jan-98 Time: 19:08:43  CST -600 GMT


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Re: Debian 2.0 release requirements

[Richard Braakman]

> Shared libraries are linked dynamically against other libraries
> 
>  Linking shared libraries dynamically against other libraries
>  simplifies the upgrading process and saves disk and memory space.
>  All shared libraries included in the Debian distribution will be
>  compiled that way.
> 
>  See H.J. Lu's `ELF: From The Programmer's Perspective' for
>  details.

I don't think the rationale is correct.  H.J. Lu's paper makes it
clear that the point of linking a library this way is to tell the
dynamic linker which other libraries are used by this library.
It does not change the way the library is compiled.

Linking shared libraries against the libraries they use has
three advantages:

  - It allows the dynamic linker to give warnings when incompatible
libraries are mixed.
  - When compiling a program, the linker can automatically link in
the extra libraries that are used by the libraries that were
specified on the command line.  (Thus, you can link with
tk without explicitly adding -ldl and -lm).
  - It gives dpkg-shlibdeps enough information to generate the
correct dependency information for a package that contains
shared libraries.

As far as I can tell, it does not save disk and memory space.
However, I am rather new at this.  Feel free to correct me.

> All binaries in ELF format (no a.out binaries)
> 
>  Though, ELF has been Debian's default binary format for few
>  releases now, a.out development packages have still been provided.
>  As a.out binaries have become rare lately, the development tools
>  for this binary format has been dropped.
> 
>  However, run-time support for a.out binaries is still available.

If we have no a.out development tools, how will we compile the
runtime support for a.out?  The runtime support packages would
have to go into contrib.

Richard Braakman


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Re: perl5.004 for bo

[Martin Schulze]

On Wed, Jan 07, 1998 at 09:32:20PM -0600, David Morton wrote:

> I just wonder how something this big slipped past so many people for this 
> long.

If all people who have noticed the lack are behaving like you did, no
wonder why there isn't such a perl update.

Regards

Joey

-- 
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 /  Whenever you meet yourself you're in a time loop /
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Re: Debian 2.0 release requirements

[bhmit1]

On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Vincent Renardias wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Jan 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > Just a note that the testing group would like to have an idea of how to
> > test the individual packages (before we were only seeing if it would
> > install).  All we are asking for is a checklist (and a script if you
> > want), which in the most general sense says: "this program should do this,
> > that program should do that".  Please send them to my email, with the
> > subject "Checklist request" (so I can sort them out).  If you've missed
> > the previous messages about this, just drop me a line and I'll give you
> > the full details and an example.
> 
> If such scripts are written, I suggest they are run from debian/rules at
> package build time. (some packages already do this (some perl modules for
> example)) This way, testers will be able to focus their attention on
> things that can NOT be done automatically...

A request similar to this was already made, and decided against.  I don't
expect the maintainer the build the package on multiple setups, which is
what we are testing. Also, if there is not easy access to the scripts,
they will not be used by the testers (we don't have the time to download
the sources and binaries for all these packages).  The testers are urged,
but not required, to consider the scripts as templates, or rough ideas, of
how to set up their own scripts (therefore we get some individual test).  

Final note, the scripts are _optional_.  It took a bit of convincing to
get me to agree with that part of the idea.  But I think there can be
benifits over the checklist only aproach.

I'm hoping this will be easier to understand once I get things organized
and start posting periodic updates and put up the web site.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask,
Brandon

-
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PGP: finger -l [EMAIL PROTECTED]  does infinite loops in 5 seconds"
Phone: (757) 221-4847  --Linus Torvalds



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Re: perl5.004 for bo

[David Morton]

On 08-Jan-98 Martin Schulze wrote:
> If all people who have noticed the lack are behaving like you did, no
> wonder why there isn't such a perl update.


EXCUSE ME??   Ok, I already said I was not attacking anyone, but stating
that I was upset.  Maybe it's not common for ppl to share feelings.  sheesh.

Now I will attack you personally... *YOUR* response is why the business world
shuns Linux.  I have to put up with a lot of people giving me crap about
the "poor support" that comes with linux.  *USUALLY* that attitude has been
way off base.  Too bad people notice the bad much more than the good.  I see
now what they mean.   

I love linux, will continue to use it.  Thanks for opening my eyes to the MIS
point of view.


David Morton See my webpage for my public pgp key 
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   
WWW: http://thinker.emporia.edu/~mortonda/home.html
Date: 07-Jan-98 Time: 22:24:19  CST -600 GMT


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Re: Is there a maintainer for the install doc?

[James A . Treacy]

> > Is anyone maintaining the Debian installation manual?
> > I know that Sven is no longer doing it. If not,
> > we will need a volunteer.
> 
> I'd like to maintain it.  I plan to  be active on the 
[snip]
Great!

One change that is needed is to change lines such as
rawrite2.exe
to
rawrite2.exe

This will allow the same pages to be used on an ftp site or
on a web site.

A few shortcomings of the current install docs:

They don't even mention fips anywhere, let alone how to use it to avoid
having to reinstall windoze (The developer who creates the tools to safely
,i.e. non-destructively, modify existing partitions during the installation
should get the Most Valuable Developer of the year award). 

Newbies could really use some guidance on deciding how big to make partitions.

Divide into more pages so it doesn't seem so intimidating.

We already have the easiest to maintain distribution. We could really get some
converts if it was the easiest to install. Good clear instructions
really make a difference.

- Jay


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Re: perl5.004 for bo

[James A . Treacy]

David Morton wrote:
> On 08-Jan-98 Martin Schulze wrote:
> > If all people who have noticed the lack are behaving like you did, no
> > wonder why there isn't such a perl update.
> 
> 
> EXCUSE ME??   Ok, I already said I was not attacking anyone, but stating
> that I was upset.  Maybe it's not common for ppl to share feelings.  sheesh.
> 
> Now I will attack you personally... *YOUR* response is why the business world
> shuns Linux.  I have to put up with a lot of people giving me crap about
> the "poor support" that comes with linux.  *USUALLY* that attitude has been
> way off base.  Too bad people notice the bad much more than the good.  I see
> now what they mean.   
> 
> I love linux, will continue to use it.  Thanks for opening my eyes to the MIS
> point of view.
> 
I think everyone agrees that there should have been a new package prepared for 
bo.
So we made a mistake. I'll never understand why free software gets
held to higher standards than commercial software. If this were a
Microsoft product everyone would just shrug their shoulders and get
on with life because they know nothing will be done within a year
(if at all).

Everyone in Debian is a volunteer. We're working just as many hours (or
more) as you and are doing this in our free time. And still, we manage to
put out a high quality product with support that most companies can only
dream about.

Please cut us a little slack or become a developer and help us do things
even better.

- Jay


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we need a Package Checker

[James A . Treacy]

Suggestion: package checker

It is currently possible to have packages installed which do not comply with
Debian policy.  A lot of these could be avoided if we simply did some kind of
check on every package before we allowed it into the distribution.

Here is the framework for a simple, flexible way to check for a lot of packaging
mistakes.

The idea is to use dpkg to unpack the .deb into /tmp
and then to use run-parts to run all the checking scripts that
have been written.

 begin package_checker ---
#!/bin/sh

# USAGE: package_checker .deb
# Just an example. This should be done in perl
if [ -f $1 ]; then
   mkdir /tmp/$1.check
   mkdir /tmp/$1.check/DEBIAN
   dpkg -e $1 /tmp/DEBIAN
   dpkg -x $1 /tmp/
   cd /tmp/$1.check
   run-parts /usr/lib/package_checker/
; fi
 end package_checker -

Instead of one monstrous convoluted program this allows different
checks to be written by different people. When changes are made
to policy, it should be easy to modify an existing check or create a new check
and just throw it into the package_checker directory.

A template program would be written which would create variables for the
package name and version so they can be used in the check and make writing
a check easier.

Off the top of my head, we could check for
 - scripts that need it contain 'set -e' ({post,pre}{inst}{rm} and files in
   /etc/inti.d for example)
 - permissions on all files
 anything in a bin dir is 755. Give warning for other perms - especially 
suid
 anything in a lib dir is 644 (except for soft links)
 - existance of all required files in /usr/doc/
 - existance of man pages for every executable in /usr/bin /usr/sbin /bin /sbin
 - man pages compressed
 - libraries and executables are stripped

Anyway, the point here is not to create an exhaustive list, but just to give
an idea of what would be done. Even the few things I've listed would avoid
a lot of bugs. It would also allow us to force acceptance of changes in policy.

I'd do this if I had the time (it would be a perfect opportunity to finally 
learn perl).
The few I've listed above would be extremely easy to code.
Someone want to volunteer to do this? Once one person develops a good base, 
others
will create more checks over time.

- Jay


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Re: netpbm status?

[Chris Lawrence]

On Jan 07, Wichert Akkerman wrote:
> Is anyone maintaining netpbm? AFAIK the current version is still
> libc5 based. I've recompiled it for libc6 here and cold upload
> it if noone objects.

I spoke to the previous (current?) maintainer about netpbm about a year
ago... here's what I dug out of my mail archives:

>From quango Mon Mar 17 17:50:24 1997
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 17:50:24 -0600
From: Chris Lawrence 
To: "Susan G. Kleinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Debian netpbm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Mailer: Mutt 0.65
Organization: Kathie Lee's Sweatshops
X-Operating-System: Linux/m68k 2.1.26
Status: RO
Content-Length: 855
Lines: 18

Susan:

For the next release of netpbm, you might want to integrate the PNM <-> PNG
translators (pngtopnm and pnmtopng) available from the PNG developers.  They
are available via that group's WWW page 

Alternatively they could be made a separate package with Suggests: netpbm.


Chris
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|  |   |
|  Amiga A4000/040 and |Join the party that opposes the CDA|
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>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Mar 17 22:01:19 1997
Received: from popd.ix.netcom.com ([EMAIL PROTECTED] [127.0.0.1])
by quango.ix.netcom.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00111
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Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Chris Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Debian netpbm 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 17 Mar 1997 17:50:24 CST."
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 21:03:49 -0500
From: "Susan G. Kleinmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Status: RO
Content-Length: 607
Lines: 18

Hi Chris --
I actually saw a couple of files that I thought I might add to netpbm, 
i.e., some that were tag-alongs that were developed after the 1994 release.
I'm planning on 
a) putting them all into netpbm, and
b) separating netpbm into a free and non-free part.

Right now, I'm waiting on Frank Neumann to get back from South America
so he can tell me if he's willing to release the 7 programs he wrote
under the GPL.

(Plus, I'm plugging away at the FAQ.)

I'll let you know when I get back to nepbm -- it'll probably be toward
the end of April, since Frank won't be back til mid-April.

Cheers,
Susan

***

I also have a hacked debian/rules for netpbm (which appeared in the .1
non-maintainer release I did for m68k):

#!/usr/bin/make -f
# Sample debian.rules file - for GNU Hello (1.3). -*- makefile -*-
# Copyright 1994,1995 by Ian Jackson.
# I hereby give you perpetual unlimited permission to copy,
# modify and relicense this file, provided that you do not remove
# my name from the file itself.  (I assert my moral right of
# paternity under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988.)
# This file may have to be extensively modified
#
# Modified to be a prototype for debmake by Christoph Lameter <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>

package=netpbm

build:
$(checkdir)
rm -f build
cp debian.Pbmplus.tmpl Pbmplus.tmpl
xmkmf -a
make
touch build

clean:
$(checkdir)
-rm -f build
-make clean
-rm -f `find . -name "*~"`
-rm -rf debian/tmp `find debian/* -type d` debian/files* core
-rm -f Pbmplus.tmpl
-rm -rf store

binary-indep:   checkroot build
$(checkdir)
# There are no architecture-independent files to be uploaded
# generated by this package.  If there were any they would be
# made here.

binary-arch:checkroot build progs dev hack

progs:
$(checkdir)
-rm -rf debian/tmp `find debian/* -type d`
install -d -g root -m 755 debian/tmp
install -d -g root -m 755 store
cd debian/tmp;install -d `cat ../dirs`
make install prefix=`pwd`/debian/tmp
make install.man prefix=`pwd`/debian/tmp
(cd debian/tmp/usr/man/man1; \
for i in *.1;\
do \
sed -e 's/\.TH \(.*\) \+1 /\.TH \1 1netpbm /' $$i > "$$i"netpbm; \
rm $$i; \
done)
# Unfortunately, make install.man also installs the library pages,
# so we have to deal with them in this section, then move them to
# a te

Re: FTP Archive cleanup

[Guy Maor]

"Meskes, Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Are you sure nothing depends on the older tcl an tk versions?

If so, they need to be updated.  We're only going to have 7.6/4.2 and
8.

I'll start running pkg-order on the archive on a regular basis and
file bugs on unmet dependencies.


Guy


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Re: cron jobs more often than daily

[Guy Maor]

Christian Schwarz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On 6 Jan 1998, Kai Henningsen wrote:
> > Disadvantage: needs a patch for cron, to scan this directory as well as  
> > the usual user crontab directory, and to execute those cronjobs as root,  
> > not as a user.
> 
> It's a small "disadvantage", after all.

I like this option too.  A more general patch to cron would be an
include mechanism:

include "path/to/file"  - include a file
include "path/to/directory" - include every file in a directory

We'd use the second form here.


Guy


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lyx warning

[Michael Meskes]

I just noticed that I uploaded lyx without finishing the postinst. If you
install 0.12pre6-0.1 it will delete your old system wide configuration file
without asking! Since this file is not usable with the new version this
won't be a big loss for most if not all of you. But in case you made some
changes their yourself be careful. I will upload a new version later on
today.

In case your wondering, I was called out of my office after just entering
the deletion code and when I came back I uploaded the package forgetting
that I had some work left to be done.

Michael
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Re: libc5 to libc6 auto-upgrade script

[Lindsay Allen]

I did a new licb5 install and ran your script.  Here are some suggested
changes.  There may be more, but I wanted to get this out the door
to save everyone from covering the same ground.

I put a " || exit" after the bash upgrade and suggest that more use
be made of this to bring the script to a halt after an error.
 
Is it OK to do the reboot asked for by the libc5 upgrade at the completion
of the script?


--- cut here ---
#! /bin/sh

# some corrections by Lindsay Allen

# upgrade a libc5 (bo) machine to libc6 (hamm).

# based on Scott Ellis' excellent "Debian libc5 to libc6 Mini-HOWTO"
# document.

# first, build up a list of installed -dev packages so that we can
# remove them.
#
# this is necessary even on machines which aren't doing libc6
# development because libc5 can't be upgraded to latest without removal
# of libc5-dev which also necessitates removal of other -dev packages
# like libdb1-dev and libdl1-dev if they are installed.

DEVPACKAGES=`dpkg --get-selections | 
grep -- -dev | 
grep -v deinstall | 
cut -f1`

dpkg --purge $DEVPACKAGES

# now install the new versions of things.  Just the bare minimum to let
# the user safely run dselect for the rest of the upgrade.

# change this to prompt the user for the location of the debian archive.

cd /debian/dists/unstable/main/binary-$(dpkg --print-installation-architecture)

# libc
#
dpkg -r wg15-locale && dpkg -iB */ldso_*.deb */libc5_*.deb */libc6_*.deb

# bash
#
dpkg -iB */ncurses3.0_*.deb */ncurses3.4_*.deb 
dpkg -iB */libreadline2_*.deb */libreadlineg2_*.deb
# paranoia says run ldconfig NOW. don't laugh, i've needed to do this on
# some libc5-libc6 upgrades. i know that the postinst scripts for the
# libs are supposed to do it but 
ldconfig
dpkg -iB */bash_*.deb || exit

# new dpkg
#
dpkg -iB */libg++272_*.deb
dpkg -iB */dpkg_*.deb */dpkg-dev_*.deb */dpkg-ftp_*.deb

# perl
#
dpkg -iB */libgdbm1_*.deb */libgdbmg1_*.deb
# paranoia says "run ldconfig now".
ldconfig
# perl-base must be configured before installing perl
dpkg -iB */perl-base_*.deb && dpkg -iB */perl_*.deb

# the user can now run dselect and select any -dev packages they want
# (and other packages too, of course :-)

--- cut here ---

HTH
Lindsay
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Lindsay Allen   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  Perth, Western Australia
voice +61 8 9316 248632.0125S 115.8445Evk6lj  Debian Unix
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Craig Sanders wrote:

> 
> i think we're going to need some sort of auto-upgrade script to include on
> the hamm release CD rom, because dselect just can't do the libc6 upgrade
> safely (AFAIK).  The CD will also Need a top-level README.NOW file saying
> run this script first or suffer the consequences...would be nice if we
> could have a note printed on the "Oficial" :-) CD-ROMS produces by various
> manufacturers too.
> 
> Anyway, I wrote a primitive one based on Scott Ellis' HOWTO.
> 
> Here it is.  This script is untested.  I've never actually run it.  It
> is, however, an accurate duplicate of what I've done by hand over a
> dozen times by now.  It will probably need some tweaking, in particular,
> the command line options for dpkg may need some --force- options.
> 
> Also, all the "*/foo_*.deb" filenames should probably be replaced with
> the correct section directories.
> 
> Anyone got a bo machine they want to test this on?  I haven't got any left,
> they're all upgraded now :-)
> 
> --- cut here --- 
> #! /bin/sh
> 
> # upgrade a libc5 (bo) machine to libc6 (hamm).
> 
> # based on Scott Ellis' excellent "Debian libc5 to libc6 Mini-HOWTO"
> # document.
> 
> # first, build up a list of installed -dev packages so that we can
> # remove them.
> #
> # this is necessary even on machines which aren't doing libc6
> # development because libc5 can't be upgraded to latest without removal
> # of libc5-dev which also necessitates removal of other -dev packages
> # like libdb1-dev and libdl1-dev if they are installed.
> 
> DEVPACKAGES=`dpkg --get-selections | 
>   grep -- -dev | 
>   grep -v deinstall | 
>   cut -f1`
> 
> dpkg --purge $DEVPACKAGES
> 
> # now install the new versions of things.  Just the bare minimum to let
> # the user safely run dselect for the rest of the upgrade.
> 
> # change this to prompt the user for the location of the debian archive.
> 
> cd /debian/dists/unstable/main/binary-i386
> 
> # libc
> #
> dpkg -iB */ldso_*.deb */libc5_*.deb */libc6_*.deb
> 
> # bash
> #
> dpkg -iB */ncurses3.0_*.deb */ncurses3.4_*.deb 
> dpkg -iB */libreadline2_*.deb */libreadlineg2_*.deb
> # paranoia says run ldconfig NOW. don't laugh, i've needed to do this on
> # some libc5-libc6 upgrades. i know that the postinst scripts for the
> # libs are supposed to do it but 
> ldconfig
> dpkg -iB */bash_*.deb
> 
> # new dpkg
> #
> dpkg -iB */libg++272_*.deb
> dpkg -iB */dpkg_*.deb */dpkg-dev_*.deb */dpkg-ftp_*.deb
> 

Re: cron jobs more often than daily

[Guy Maor]

"Meskes, Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Couldn't we find a common way for packages to adjust other packages
> conffiles?

The service registration mechanism I proposed earlier takes care of
this easily.

Netbase does this in the postinst:
   provide-service --install-hook services netbase /usr/lib/installservice

And has /usr/lib/installservice:
   #!/bin/sh
   if [ $1 = "--install" ] ; then
 p=$2
 shift 2
 echo "$@" "# $p" > /etc/services
   elsif [ $1 = "--remove" ] ; then
 p=$2
 t=$(tempfile)
 sed -e '/# $p/d' /etc/services > $t
 mv t /etc/services
   done

A quake-server package would do this for example:
   register-service --install quake-server quake 26000/udp
And in prerm:
   register-service --remove quake-server

I should go implement it.  It solves lots of configuration issues.


Guy


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Re: libc5 to libc6 auto-upgrade script

[Craig Sanders]

On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Hamish Moffatt wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 08, 1998 at 09:52:00AM +1100, Craig Sanders wrote:
> > # development because libc5 can't be upgraded to latest without removal
> > # of libc5-dev which also necessitates removal of other -dev packages
> > # like libdb1-dev and libdl1-dev if they are installed.
> > 
> > DEVPACKAGES=`dpkg --get-selections | 
> > grep -- -dev | 
> > grep -v deinstall | 
> > cut -f1`
> 
> Is there any way you could mark these dev packages to be installed
> at the end, by dselect when next run? That would be a nice touch I think.

not really.  they're obsolete libc5 versions which may or may not have libc6
and/or -altdev replacement packages.

otherwise it would be trivial to pipe into dpkg --set-selections:

( for i in $DEVPACKAGES ; do echo "$i install" ; done ) | \
dpkg --set-selections

craig

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Re: Question/request concerning master

[Guy Maor]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ben Pfaff) writes:

> 530-Sorry, there are too many anonymous users using the system at this
> 530-time.  Please try again later.  There is currently a limit of 10
> 530-anonymous users for your domain group.

Sometimes the ftpd on master gets hung.  Whenever I get hit with this
message, I just log in, use ftpwho, and kill the daemons which are
obviously hung.  Of course you need to be root to do this.  Raising
the limit over 10 is probably reasonable too, especially as there is
no anonymous ftp.

Next time it happens, I'll SIGQUIT one of them to get a core and file
a bug report.

If you get hit with this in the future and ftpwho reveals hung
daemons, find somebody that has root to help you.


Guy


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Re: Question/request concerning master

[Guy Maor]

Turbo Fredriksson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I have been looking al over for this trick... Tried this one to, which did
> not work...

In the beginning of your .xsession:

eval $(ssh-agent)
ssh-add 

Re: What's Debian's /usr/src policy

[Guy Maor]

Fabrizio Polacco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I recently managed to add some sources in my -dbg shared lib packages,
> to make them easily debuggable. (See bug#16038 on 30 Dec)

I rather liked your solution to the problem of debuggable shared libs,
but you need to figure out a way to not need to be root to build
it. (maybe you already did?)  Maybe we could start a thread on
debian-policy about the best way to do -dbg packages?


Guy


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Bug#16727: project: xload is no longer available.

[Meskes, Michael]

Yes, they say the X version is working so well under Linux now that they
don't need to support it anymore. They did include the old diffs though
(as far as I remember one ifdef LINUX and more additional function). 

Could we please find a solution for this problem pretty soon as I (and I
suppose lots of others) use xload all of the time.

Michael

--
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]| Europark A2, Adenauerstr. 20
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Use Debian GNU/Linux!  | Fax: (+49) 2405/4670-10

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 1998 3:46 AM
> To:   Meskes, Michael
> Subject:  Re: Bug#16727: project: xload is no longer available.
> 
> Yeah, it was specifically left out of xcontrib, because the procps one
> was a lot better: from dpkg --status,
> >  xfontsel, xgc, xman, and xmessage. (xload is in xproc now.)
> 
> Did the procps upstream give any *reason* they don't include xload
> anymore?  Could the current procps maintainer keep it in as a diff
> anyway?
> 
> 
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Re: please upgrade your packages to current standards

[Guy Maor]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Braakman) writes:

> However, I don't know the history behind this.  What is the reason for
> not including Section and Priority by default?

Ian and I discussed it when I first started maintaining the archive.

dselect always takes the section and priority from the Packages file.
If it's not there, it tries to take it from the package itself.  It's
nice, but not crucial, if the data is in the package so that the
package shows up in the right place even without a current Packages
file.

Accordingly, we decided that including the info in the package was
optional, but if it was included, it had to match what was in the
Packages file.  Kai's strategy is reasonable in this case.

BTW, dpkg-scanpackages(1) explains the format of the override files
used to put things in the right place in the Packages files.


Guy


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Re: cron jobs more often than daily

[Martin Schulze]

On Wed, Jan 07, 1998 at 11:30:42PM -0800, Guy Maor wrote:

> > > Disadvantage: needs a patch for cron, to scan this directory as well as  
> > > the usual user crontab directory, and to execute those cronjobs as root,  
> > > not as a user.

> I like this option too.  A more general patch to cron would be an
> include mechanism:
> 
> include "path/to/file"  - include a file
> include "path/to/directory" - include every file in a directory

For my feeling this would complicate things alot more than needed.
Both the user and the cron program have to take care of alot of more
stuff.  I don't see the need for this compicated mechanism as there
are only very few packages that contain scripts/programs that need
to be run more often than daily.

It doesn't make sense to split very small configuration files into
more files and directories.  This is useful for configuration files
that contain a lot of entries and where many packages use to install
services.

Regards

Joey

-- 
  / Martin Schulze  *  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  *  26129 Oldenburg /
 /  Whenever you meet yourself you're in a time loop /
/ http://home.pages.de/~joey/   or in front of a mirror /


pgpmS6rk7lnQs.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: [Fwd: Bug#16660: metro-motif-aout: depends on xcompat which is in project/orphaned]

[Guy Maor]

Hamish Moffatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I think Guy intended to move all packages that don't have source
> to project/orphaned. So libc4 and xcompat, among others, moved.
> If libc4 and xcompat are to remain in project/orphaned,

I moved all old source packages to orphaned, and flat out removed
binaries without source (like xcompat for example).

You can still find those a.out debs in bo, but they won't be in hamm
unless someone uploads them with new source packages.


Guy


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Re: Debian 2.0 release requirements

[Enrique Zanardi]

On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Gergely Madarasz wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Alex Yukhimets wrote:
> 
> > 
> > it is nice property of "less" (as opposed to "more") that it filters
> > out all non-ascii charachters (changes them to some ^... printable
> > sequencies). As a result, it is not possible to trash the console by
> > doing "less " or, more important - if something
> > bad happened and you created a file(s) with some non-ascii charachters,
> > "ls" will trash the console while "ls | less" will show you everything
> > and let you delete it.
> 
> I think that LESSCHARSET=latin1 as default wouldn't trash your console and
> it would show most of what it should show ... 

AFAIK, less already is 8-bit aware, no changes needed. So Alex, don't worry
about that.


-- 
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Dpto. Fisica Fundamental y Experimental Univ. de La Laguna


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Re: we need a Package Checker

[Christian Schwarz]

On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, James A.Treacy wrote:

[snip]
> Someone want to volunteer to do this? Once one person develops a good
> base, others will create more checks over time. 

Funny, that you bring up this topic now, since I have discussed this in
great detail with Richard Braakman in the last days. We two decided to
work on a framework to do such tests. 

If more people are intrested in joining the discussion we should probably 
move it to a public list.

Anyone intrested?


Thanks,

Chris

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   / o \__   [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
   !   ___;   [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: intent to package quake2, qwcl, qwsv and unixded

[Guy Maor]

Roderick Schertler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I've got an expect script I use for my Quake servers which reboots them
> if they become stuck.  Would it be appropriate to ship that and use it
> by default with the server packages?

Go ahead and include it, but don't run it by default so that you don't
have to relate the package to expect.


Guy


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Re: Libc6 progress: 1998-01-07

[Gregor Hoffleit]

Neil A. Rubin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
wmaker-0.6.3-1   (Mixed dependencies)

Marcelo E. Magallon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> is working on  
WindowMaker packages based on wmaker-0.12.3.

Gregor


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new axe upload

[Michael Meskes]

Just to let you know, I will upload a libc6 version of axe (without rpath)
in a while.

Michael
-- 
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]| Europark A2, Adenauerstr. 20
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  | 52146 Wuerselen
Go SF49ers! Go Rhein Fire! | Tel: (+49) 2405/4670-44
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Re: libc5 to libc6 auto-upgrade script

[Guy Maor]

I still have a not-quite-finished upgrade of the experimental dpkg-ftp
done.  I fixed some bugs and added immediate configuration of
pre-depended on targets and essential packages.  I also improved the
backend logic so that it will only use later backends if the version
is newer.  For example, you can point it at a mounted CD,
ftp.debian.org, and nonus.debian.org, and it will do the smart thing
about where to get a particular package from.  This is really great
for keeping stable systems up-to-date.

I'll finish it and upload it (along with a new dpkg-scriptlib) soon.
I'd like it to replace all the dselect backends in hamm with it.

Anyway, I bring it up because the immediate configuration of
pre-depended on and essential packages goes a long way toward making
the bo->hamm upgrade simpler.


Guy


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Re: Debian 2.0 release requirements

[Santiago Vila]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Alex Yukhimets wrote:

> it is nice property of "less" (as opposed to "more") that it filters
> out all non-ascii charachters (changes them to some ^... printable
> sequencies). As a result, it is not possible to trash the console by
> doing "less " or, more important - if something
> bad happened and you created a file(s) with some non-ascii charachters,
> "ls" will trash the console while "ls | less" will show you everything
> and let you delete it.

I think there is a misunderstanding here:

"non-ascii" is not the same as "non-printable".

At least in iso-8859-1, characters from 160 to 255 *are* printable, and
should *not* be "escaped" in any way, or else nobody will be able to see

\begin{TeX}
Espa\~na
\end{TeX}

properly (i.e. "España" in iso-8859-1).

These characters are also printable with the default font, but obviously
you will not see the letter (TeX \~n) or accented letters, but IBM-PC
graphics instead.

You may trash the console by printing characters from 128 to 159, but in
general these are *not* printable, so I don't think anything bad will
happen if we are 8-bit clean at least *for characters between 160 and 255*.

Thanks.

p.s. I don't remember ever having trashed the console by using less.

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Re: libc5 to libc6 auto-upgrade script

[Craig Sanders]

On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Lindsay Allen wrote:

> I did a new licb5 install and ran your script.  Here are some
> suggested changes.  There may be more, but I wanted to get this out
> the door to save everyone from covering the same ground.
>
> I put a " || exit" after the bash upgrade and suggest that more use be
> made of this to bring the script to a halt after an error.

done.

> Is it OK to do the reboot asked for by the libc5 upgrade at the
> completion of the script?

yes, it's ok to type 'shutdown -r now'.  no, i wont make the script do it.

imo, you may as well run dselect and upgrade everything to hamm before
rebooting so that you get a nice clean hamm system with only one reboot.


here's an updated version of the script which includes suggestions from
a few people, including yourself and a few improvements of my own.

This is still mostly untested software.  It probably wont completely
destroy your system but I am making no guarrantees at all: USE AT YOUR
OWN RISK.


---cut here---
#! /bin/sh

# safely upgrade a libc5 (bo) machine to libc6 (hamm).

# based on Scott Ellis' excellent "Debian libc5 to libc6 Mini-HOWTO"
# document.

# Author: Craig Sanders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
#
# Copyright Status: This script is hereby placed in the public domain
#
# Revision History:
# v0.0: 19980801 (morning)
#   - a rough transcript of scott's doc and my own experiences
# v0.1: 19980801 (night)
#   - a few bugfixes
#   - i got unlazy and put in the right subdirectories for each package. 
# should run a lot faster.
#   - now checks for failure at critical points and exits with a different
# exit code for each failure.
#   - now uses 'binary-$(dpkg --print-installation-architecture)' instead 
# of 'binary-i386'.
#
# TODO: (probably by somebody else.  this script is mostly good enough imo)
#   - error checking
#   - be smarter about locating the hamm rootdir (or just assume we're in
# the right directory to start with.  look for ./base/libc6_*.deb as a
# sanity check).

# first, build up a list of installed -dev packages so that we can
# remove them.  remove wg-15-locale too.
#
# this is necessary even on machines which aren't doing libc6
# development because libc5 can't be upgraded to latest version without
# removal of libc5-dev which also necessitates removal of other -dev
# packages like libdb1-dev and libdl1-dev if they are installed.

DEVPACKAGES=`dpkg --get-selections | 
grep -- -dev | 
grep -v deinstall | 
cut -f1`

dpkg --remove -B $DEVPACKAGES wg-15-locale || exit 1

# now install the new versions of things.  Just the bare minimum to let
# the user safely run dselect for the rest of the upgrade.

# change this to prompt the user for the location of the debian archive.
cd /debian/dists/unstable/main/binary-$(dpkg --print-installation-architecture)

# libc
#
dpkg -iB base/ldso_*.deb base/libc5_*.deb base/libc6_*.deb \
base/timezones_*.deb admin/locales_*.deb || exit 2

# libreadline, ncurses, and bash
#
dpkg -iB base/ncurses3.0_*.deb libs/ncurses3.4_*.deb  || exit 3
dpkg -iB oldlibs/libreadline2_*.deb  || exit 4
dpkg -iB base/libreadlineg2_*.deb || exit 5

# paranoia says run ldconfig NOW. don't laugh, i've needed to do this on
# some libc5-libc6 upgrades. i know that the postinst scripts for the
# libs are supposed to do it but 
ldconfig
dpkg -iB base/bash_*.deb || exit 6

# new dpkg
#
dpkg -iB devel/libg++272_*.deb || exit 7
dpkg -iB base/dpkg_*.deb base/dpkg-dev_*.deb

# strictly speaking, dpkg-ftp and dpkg-mountable are not essential to upgrade
# right now but they're both very useful.
dpkg -iB utils/dpkg-ftp_*.deb admin/admin/dpkg-mountable_*.deb

# perl
#
dpkg -iB base/libgdbm1_*.deb devel/libgdbmg1_*.deb || exit 8
# paranoia says "run ldconfig now".
ldconfig
dpkg -iB base/perl-base_*.deb interpreters/perl_*.deb

# the user can now run dselect and select any -dev packages they want
# (and other packages too, of course :-)

cat <<__EOF__

libc6 is now installed.  Now run dselect to upgrade the rest of your
system.  Reboot for the utmp/wtmp wrapper functions in the upgraded
libc5 to take effect.

Also remember to fix up wtmp and utmp, otherwise last and who and sac
etc wont work. here's what Miquel van Smoorenburg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
had to say about this recently in debian-user mailing list:

> 1. You need to update ALL your packages to hamm
> 2. Reboot if you haven't done that already
> 3. You need to move the wtmp file and truncate the utmp file:
>cd /var/log
>mv wtmp wtmp.libc5
>touch wtmp
>cd /var/run
>cp /dev/null utmp
> 4. You might want to reboot again to make sure
> 
> This is because the "struct utmp" and thus the utmp and wtmp
> "databases" are different between libc5 and libc6

__EOF__
---cut here---

--
craig sanders


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Re: AucTeX

[Britton]

On 7 Jan 1998, Davide G. M. Salvetti wrote:

> AucTeX is listed as orphaned in wnpp; I'm willing to take over its
> maintenance if nobody objects.

I think this might be because teTeX has now replaced AucTeX as the Debian
TeX/LaTeX distribution of choice.  Of course TeX/LaTeX is so darn
complicated I'm not really sure about this.  Btw, if you have ever managed
to make dvi files with ps images print right through magicfilter, I would
love to hear how you did it.

> 
> I'll be able to ship release 9.8i --- the latest one, I think --- in a few
> days; I guess I'm able to fix all outstanding bugs I am aware of.
> 
> I've a bunch of questions about this package which may well be just
> newbie's questions, so I'm carbon copying to debian-mentors as well:
> please, let's talk there about this if it isn't appropriate to
> debian-devel.
> 
> Questions:
> --
> 
> 1) AucTeX has many .el's which should be shipped byte-compiled: should I
> compile them with some specific Emacs flavor or doesn't it matter which
> Emacs I'll use?  (Please consider that, AFAIK, XEmacs comes with its own
> AucTeX, so AucTeX should probably care only about GNU/Emacs; I'm not sure,
> about that, though, mainly 'cause I don't use XEmacs :-).)
> 
> 2) Should I remove byte-compiled source files in the binary package in
> order to minimize its size?  (It's a matter of some 600k; current AucTeX
> package behaves this way.)
> 
> 3) Current AucTeX package puts its data (.elc's) in /usr/lib/emacs/common;
> should I put them in /usr/share/emacs/whatever_is_more_appropriate or
> something else instead?  (Please, consider FHS and FSSTND, and the fact
> many packages already put stuff in /usr/share.)
> 
> 4) AucTeX needs to periodically scan (La)TeX style files to keep itself in
> touch with what one has installed on his machine;  it does this by
> cron.weekly.  Current AucTeX package puts resulting files under /usr
> (precisely just where it puts its data: /usr/lib/emacs/common);  I believe
> I should put things under /var, instead: any comments, please?
> 
> 5) Current AucTeX package puts its configuration files directly under
> /etc/elisp: is this still good behavior?
> 
> 6) Current AucTeX package asks specific questions to the user in preinst
> (stead of postinst) under certain conditions (namely if the user has
> already installed some custom AucTeX version, or if he's upgrading from
> really old package versions): I think its really the right place to ask
> that and it does not go against policy (not all user are asked these
> questions, just the ones who have conflicting software installed), but I'd
> like to have some feedback from someone more experienced than me.
> (Obviously all of the other general questions that are necessary to ask are
> asked in postinst.)
> 
> Waiting for comments,
> 
> 


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Re: AucTeX

[Anselm Lingnau]

> I think this might be because teTeX has now replaced AucTeX as the Debian
> TeX/LaTeX distribution of choice.  Of course TeX/LaTeX is so darn
> complicated I'm not really sure about this.

AucTeX is not a TeX distribution but a set of Emacs macros for easier
editing of (La)TeX documents.

Anselm
-- 
Anselm Lingnau . [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PL/I and Ada started out with all the bloat, were very daunting languages, and
got bad reputations (deservedly). C++ has shown that if you slowly bloat up a
language over a period of years, people don't seem to mind as much.
--- James Hague


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xaw incompatibilities

[Meskes, Michael]

I just filed bug reports against nextaw and xaw95 because they don't
list axe as incompatible. However, afterwards Ray told me that I could
as well include the incompatibility list with axe. So I wonder which way
is to prefer?

Comments?

Michael

--
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]| Europark A2, Adenauerstr. 20
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  | 52146 Wuerselen
Go SF49ers! Go Rhein Fire! | Tel: (+49) 2405/4670-44
Use Debian GNU/Linux!  | Fax: (+49) 2405/4670-10


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procps

[Ulf Jaenicke-Roessler]

Hi,

 where should 'ps' reside, according to the standard?
 In the latest version it moved from /bin/ps to /usr/bin/ps.

 Thanks,

  Ulf

--

 #include 


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Re: xaw incompatibilities

[jdassen]

On Thu, Jan 08, 1998 at 01:49:31PM +0100, Meskes, Michael wrote:
> I just filed bug reports against nextaw and xaw95 because they don't list
> axe as incompatible. However, afterwards Ray told me that I could as well
> include the incompatibility list with axe. So I wonder which way is to
> prefer?

My preference is for including it with the program, rather than the xaw
replacement library, because that is faster (no need to file a bug report)
and keeps the incompatibility information in one place.

Ray
-- 
PATRIOTISM  A great British writer once said that if he had to choose 
between betraying his country and betraying a friend he hoped he would
have the decency to betray his country.  
- The Hipcrime Vocab by Chad C. Mulligan 


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RE: xaw incompatibilities

[Meskes, Michael]

As I already said in our private mail, Ray, I agree with you. Unless
someone objects I will change axe once again (but I won't take over
maintaining it). Due to my real work this won't be before next week
though.

Michael

--
Dr. Michael Meskes, Project-Manager| topsystem Systemhaus GmbH
[EMAIL PROTECTED]| Europark A2, Adenauerstr. 20
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  | 52146 Wuerselen
Go SF49ers! Go Rhein Fire! | Tel: (+49) 2405/4670-44
Use Debian GNU/Linux!  | Fax: (+49) 2405/4670-10

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 1998 2:07 PM
> To:   debian-devel@lists.debian.org
> Subject:  Re: xaw incompatibilities
> 
> On Thu, Jan 08, 1998 at 01:49:31PM +0100, Meskes, Michael wrote:
> > I just filed bug reports against nextaw and xaw95 because they don't
> list
> > axe as incompatible. However, afterwards Ray told me that I could as
> well
> > include the incompatibility list with axe. So I wonder which way is
> to
> > prefer?
> 
> My preference is for including it with the program, rather than the
> xaw
> replacement library, because that is faster (no need to file a bug
> report)
> and keeps the incompatibility information in one place.
> 
> Ray
> -- 
> PATRIOTISM  A great British writer once said that if he had to choose 
> between betraying his country and betraying a friend he hoped he would
> have the decency to betray his country.
> 
> - The Hipcrime Vocab by Chad C. Mulligan 
> 
> 
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Re: libc5 to libc6 auto-upgrade script

[Lindsay Allen]

On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Craig Sanders wrote:

[snip]

> dpkg -iB base/libgdbm1_*.deb devel/libgdbmg1_*.deb || exit 8
> # paranoia says "run ldconfig now".
> ldconfig
> dpkg -iB base/perl-base_*.deb interpreters/perl_*.deb


Did you miss the change re perl?

# perl-base must be configured before installing perl
dpkg -iB */perl-base_*.deb && dpkg -iB */perl_*.deb
 
On my test run perl would not configure without perl-base installed.

elm# dpkg -s perl
Package: perl
Status: install ok installed
Priority: important
Section: interpreters
Installed-Size: 6658
Maintainer: Darren Stalder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Version: 5.004.04-3
Replaces: io
Provides: io
Depends: perl-base (= 5.004.04-3)
Pre-Depends: perl-base (>= 5.004.04-2)
Suggests: perl-suid, perl-debug
Conflicts: io



You have done a fine job, Craig.  I will build another bo system in the
morning and run the script again.

Lindsay

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Lindsay Allen   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  Perth, Western Australia
voice +61 8 9316 248632.0125S 115.8445Evk6lj  Debian Unix
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=



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Re: procps

[Santiago Vila]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Ulf Jaenicke-Roessler wrote:

>  where should 'ps' reside, according to the standard?
>  In the latest version it moved from /bin/ps to /usr/bin/ps.

According to the maintainer, it will be moved back to /bin.
This is bug #16705. Thanks.

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Version: 2.6.3ia
Charset: latin1

iQCVAgUBNLTXryqK7IlOjMLFAQEsfwQAg/Q9yeZTsMwgZoB1mtGyA0sVVC/9ez5A
fUtBFy/jMZRIlYznZHCGS12q23zUvAJCa6vkXNYMjKMcbiCI6p9Pm/nXZjxGUNvw
4fLt+n8gXkpsAw9XbaHo4+j9n7od9mpixQOjzR18ht2HNKXkkpMaX7NJT8BEy48B
FVYC1E1PBh8=
=6PS5
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Re: perl5.004 for bo

[David Morton]

On 08-Jan-98 "James A. Treacy" wrote:
> I think everyone agrees that there should have been a new package prepared
> for bo.
> So we made a mistake. I'll never understand why free software gets
> held to higher standards than commercial software. If this were a
> Microsoft product everyone would just shrug their shoulders and get
> on with life because they know nothing will be done within a year
> (if at all).

Heheh, how true.  In fact, *do* hold Linux to a higher standard.  Why?
Because it has earned it!  This is really the first time in my three years
of use that Linux has really let me down when I needed it.  I been on the 
bleeding edge before, and pulled my hair out trying to get things to work, but 
that's the price to pay for bleeding edge technology.  OTOH, I'm not using
the bleeding edge any more, as I don't have the time to fuss with it.

> Everyone in Debian is a volunteer. We're working just as many hours (or
> more) as you and are doing this in our free time. And still, we manage to
> put out a high quality product with support that most companies can only
> dream about.

Indeed!  This is one reason I continue to promote Linux.  While I haven't used 
debian for very long, I have seen a very good product.   There are some ideas
in debian that just seem to make more sense.  

Indeed, again, thank you for the polite reply, written in the manner I am used
to seeing from Linux developers and other venues of support.  My intentions for
my communications is to spur on the project, and to speed up the patch.

To the group, let me say:  
Those of you who saw my first message as an attack or a flame, what nice little
utpoia of the planet do you come from?   sheesh!  If that's all it takes
to ruffle your feathers, then you had better learn how to deal with it before
you have to deal with giving support in a job situation. (I'm not trying to say 
you're jobless or don't deal with support).  What I mean is,  customers calling
me on the phone are almost never as nice as that message.  Granted, I'm not 
paying you for support.  Why should that change your attitude?

The flames that came back at me only underscore the reason MIS refuses to 
accept Linux.  I guess you guys don't want business to start using debian, 
because believe me, there are people out there that can write much more
scorching flames than I can.   heck, I thought my message was more along
the line of a gripe or whine, not a flame!


David Morton See my webpage for my public pgp key 
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   
WWW: http://thinker.emporia.edu/~mortonda/home.html
Date: 08-Jan-98 Time: 07:21:51  CST -600 GMT


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Re: procps

[Bart Schuller]

BTW,

Does anyone know where killall went? procps_1.2.2-1 doesn't seem to
include it. "killall" is used in quite a lot of scripts, which are now
starting to break.

-- 
Bart Schuller  [EMAIL PROTECTED] At Lunalabs, where the
Lunatech Research  http://www.lunatech.com/  future is made today..
Partner of The Perl Institute  http://www.perl.org/Linux http://www.li.org/


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Re: procps

[Martin Mitchell]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ulf Jaenicke-Roessler) writes:

>  where should 'ps' reside, according to the standard?
>  In the latest version it moved from /bin/ps to /usr/bin/ps.

I noticed this too, and filed a bug. The maintainer says it will return to
/bin in the next release.

Martin.


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Re: procps

[Scott Ellis]

On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Bart Schuller wrote:

> BTW,
> 
> Does anyone know where killall went? procps_1.2.2-1 doesn't seem to
> include it. "killall" is used in quite a lot of scripts, which are now
> starting to break.

Yes, it got broken out upstream into a seperate psmisc package.  Which is
now stuck in incoming.  You can find an incoming mirror at
ftp://ftp1.us.debian.org/pub/debian/Incoming

-- 
Scott K. Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.gate.net/~storm/


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Re: procps

[Bart Schuller]

On Jan 8, Scott Ellis wrote
> On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Bart Schuller wrote:
> > Does anyone know where killall went? procps_1.2.2-1 doesn't seem to
> > include it. "killall" is used in quite a lot of scripts, which are now
> > starting to break.
> 
> Yes, it got broken out upstream into a seperate psmisc package.  Which is
> now stuck in incoming.  You can find an incoming mirror at
> ftp://ftp1.us.debian.org/pub/debian/Incoming

Thanks.

I mut say I find the policy with respect to split or renamed packages
getting stuck in Incoming suboptimal. First e2fsprogsg, now killall.

It is a bit too easy to end up with a broken system, something which the
policy for new packages is supposed to prevent.

-- 
Bart Schuller  [EMAIL PROTECTED] At Lunalabs, where the
Lunatech Research  http://www.lunatech.com/  future is made today..
Partner of The Perl Institute  http://www.perl.org/Linux http://www.li.org/


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Re: procps

[Martin Schulze]

On Thu, Jan 08, 1998 at 03:10:19PM +0100, Bart Schuller wrote:

> > > Does anyone know where killall went? procps_1.2.2-1 doesn't seem to
> > > include it. "killall" is used in quite a lot of scripts, which are now
> > > starting to break.
> > 
> > Yes, it got broken out upstream into a seperate psmisc package.  Which is
> > now stuck in incoming.  You can find an incoming mirror at
> > ftp://ftp1.us.debian.org/pub/debian/Incoming
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> I mut say I find the policy with respect to split or renamed packages
> getting stuck in Incoming suboptimal. First e2fsprogsg, now killall.

Seconded.

Please file a bugreport against ftp.debian.org so Guy remembers this.

Regards

Joey

-- 
  / Martin Schulze  *  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  *  26129 Oldenburg /
 /  Whenever you meet yourself you're in a time loop /
/ http://home.pages.de/~joey/   or in front of a mirror /


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Re: procps

[jdassen]

On Thu, Jan 08, 1998 at 03:13:05PM +0100, Martin Schulze wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 08, 1998 at 03:10:19PM +0100, Bart Schuller wrote:
> > I mut say I find the policy with respect to split or renamed packages
> > getting stuck in Incoming suboptimal. First e2fsprogsg, now killall.
> 
> Please file a bugreport against ftp.debian.org so Guy remembers this.

Note that this is probably already covered:
#4378: Dependencies should be checked automatically
#9857: ftp 'dinstall' needs to check dependancies

Ray
-- 
UNFAIR  Term applied to advantages enjoyed by other people which we tried 
to cheat them out of and didn't manage. See also DISHONESTY, SNEAKY, 
UNDERHAND and JUST LUCKY I GUESS. 
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Re: Libc6 progress: 1998-01-07

[Marcelo E. Magallon]

On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Gregor Hoffleit wrote:

> Neil A. Rubin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> wmaker-0.6.3-1   (Mixed dependencies)
> 
> Marcelo E. Magallon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> is working on  
> WindowMaker packages based on wmaker-0.12.3.

Yes. I have them ready, and some ppl have tested them. (I haven't been
able to test the upgrade from 0.6.3-1 -> 0.12.3, yet). I'm just waiting
for my PGP key to be incorporated into the key-ring.

Marcelo


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Re: procps

[Bart Schuller]

On Jan 8, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
> > Please file a bugreport against ftp.debian.org so Guy remembers this.
> 
> Note that this is probably already covered:
> #4378: Dependencies should be checked automatically
> #9857: ftp 'dinstall' needs to check dependancies

Now you're really scaring me: out of curiosity, I browsed the first bug
report, which contains this beauty of a message:

Hi!

I'm on vacation for one month, so I'm not reading any email.  I'll be
back on July 14, and I'll respond to all my email by July 16.

You will only receive this email once.


Guy

To me this illustrates the severity of the situation. (Note, btw, that
this is nothing personal against the current ftp site maintainer, it's
the whole procedure I have a problem with).

-- 
Bart Schuller  [EMAIL PROTECTED] At Lunalabs, where the
Lunatech Research  http://www.lunatech.com/  future is made today..
Partner of The Perl Institute  http://www.perl.org/Linux http://www.li.org/


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interactive sound configuration utility

[Hamish Moffatt]

I understand that the modularized sound drivers are now standard
on Linux 2.0.32 and above. Given that, I think it would be good
if we had a setup utility for sound, like the one provided
with OSS/Linux.

Redhat have a sndconfig to go with the modularization patches
(which they sponsored according to their web site). The latest
sources were only in RPM format, the tar.gz was old, but I managed
to battle with rpm long enough to extract them. (Conspiracy
theories anyone?)

Anyway it seems that sndconfig just probes for PnP cards with
isapnptools' pnpdump and configures them, and only supports SB
cards anyway. It'd be nice to have (I may work on a package(*))
but it isn't exactly what I want. Does anyone know of anything
like this somebody is working on, or are there people interested
in working on it?

(*) Their manual page says that sndconfig configures sound on
the Red Hat Linux system. Is it ok to change this if the software
is GPL? Otherwise it would look strange.


hamish
-- 
Hamish Moffatt, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Latest Debian packages at ftp://ftp.rising.com.au/pub/hamish. PGP#EFA6B9D5
CCs of replies from mailing lists are welcome.   http://hamish.home.ml.org


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Re: AucTeX

[Davide G. M. Salvetti]

> "APH" == Adam P Harris.

I've uploaded auctex_9.8i-1 to master: maybe someone could look at it to
see if I've done things the right way.

I put a note in Description telling XEmacs people they don't need to
install it and compiled things with GNU/Emacs.

 >> 3) Current AucTeX package puts its data (.elc's) in
 >> /usr/lib/emacs/common; should I put them in
 >> /usr/share/emacs/whatever_is_more_appropriate or something else
 >> instead?  (Please, consider FHS and FSSTND, and the fact many
 >> packages already put stuff in /usr/share.)

 APH> I'd leave it where it is.  Or else put it in share and symlink
 APH> from /usr/ lib/emacs/common.  We'll embrace FHS in 2.1 or so;
 APH> right now it's FSSTD which is stipulated by policy.

I leaved things under /usr/lib/emacs/common.

 >> 4) AucTeX needs to periodically scan (La)TeX style files to keep
 >> itself in touch with what one has installed on his machine; it
 >> does this by cron.weekly.  Current AucTeX package puts resulting
 >> files under /usr (precisely just where it puts its data:
 >> /usr/lib/emacs/common); I believe I should put things under /var,
 >> instead: any comments, please?

 APH> Yes, /var/lib/emacs/auctex perhaps?

I think it's the right place as well, so I put auto generated stuff
there.

Thank you,

Davide G. M. Salvetti - IW5DZC [JN53fr]
Take a look at Debian GNU/Linux: .
Debian is the free operating system with open development model.

Same diversions problem again

[Richard Braakman]

>From a recent installation run:

Unpacking ppp-pam (from .../net/ppp-pam_2.3.2-2.deb) ...
Adding `diversion of /usr/sbin/pppd to /usr/sbin/pppd.ppp-pam by ppp-pam'
Preparing to replace ppp 2.3.2-1 (using .../net/ppp_2.3.2-2.deb) ...
Unpacking replacement ppp ...
(Noting disappearance of ppp-pam, which has been completely replaced.)

This looks like the same problem that gnuchess and gnuchess-book had.
Note that both ppp-pam and gnuchess-book contain *only* the file
they divert.

My guess is that the diversion does not update the file-list cached by
the currently-running dpkg, and that causes dpkg to think that ppp
has overwritten all of ppp-pam.

Richard Braakman


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Re: interactive sound configuration utility

[Marcelo E. Magallon]

On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Hamish Moffatt wrote:

> Redhat have a sndconfig to go with the modularization patches
> (which they sponsored according to their web site). The latest
> sources were only in RPM format, the tar.gz was old, but I managed
> to battle with rpm long enough to extract them. (Conspiracy
> theories anyone?)

rpm2cpio something.src.rpm | cpio -i works for me.

The sources are compiled with a newt version that is NOT 0.10; there are
tons of functions not present in 0.10, I don't know if their's newer,
older or plain different.

Their sound configuration thing is not that amazing. The patches that
modulize sound are there, and seem to be a good thing, but documentation
is lacking. 

Marcelo


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Re: netpbm status?

[Frank Neumann]

Hi,
Chris Lawrence wrote:

[actually, this is what Susan wrote a while back]

> Hi Chris --
> I actually saw a couple of files that I thought I might add to netpbm, 
> i.e., some that were tag-alongs that were developed after the 1994 release.
> I'm planning on 
> a) putting them all into netpbm, and
> b) separating netpbm into a free and non-free part.
> 
> Right now, I'm waiting on Frank Neumann to get back from South America
> so he can tell me if he's willing to release the 7 programs he wrote
> under the GPL.

Wow, I was to South America? Interesting to know. :-)

> (Plus, I'm plugging away at the FAQ.)
> 
> I'll let you know when I get back to nepbm -- it'll probably be toward
> the end of April, since Frank won't be back til mid-April.

I in fact answered Susan's mail very delayed, and when I did, I allowed her
to use my little programs for Debian (they could have been GPLed all the
time, but I really didn't know better when I hacked them up). 

I also pointed Susan to a collegue of mine, Ingo Wilken, who is sort-of trying
to maintain netpbm since it was abandoned by this swedish guy whose names
escapes me at the moment..anyway, Ingo wants to release a new netpbm some
day, and I believe it will help quite a lot if people push him a bit..
that's at least what I have been doing for the last 8 weeks, without much
success so far. :-}

Frank


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Re: Debian 2.0 release requirements

[Yann Dirson]

Alex Yukhimets writes:
 > if something
 > bad happened and you created a file(s) with some non-ascii charachters,
 > "ls" will trash the console while "ls | less" will show you everything
 > and let you delete it.

?? Why on earth do you need less for that ?  
Doesn't "LANG=C /bin/ls -b" do the right job for that ?

-- 
Yann Dirson  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  | Stop making M$-Bill richer & richer,
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debian-email:   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  | more powerful, more stable !
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Uncompress /usr/doc/copyright/GPL.gz please

[John Goerzen]

Hi,

One of the programs I'm maintaining (filerunner) has, on its help
menu, options to display some of its documentation (which I
conveniently stick in /usr/doc/filerunner).  This is how it does its
online help.  One of the things it wants to display is the COPYING
file (the normal name for the GPL).  It will not display gzipped
files.  So at the moment, I am left in the unfortunate position of
having to install an uncompressed COPYING in /usr/doc/filerunner.

I would like to set a symlink from COPYING in /usr/doc/filerunner to
GPL in /usr/doc/copyright.  But -- that file is gzipped, so it won't
work.

Can this file be uncompressed in the future?

-- 
John Goerzen  | Developing for Debian GNU/Linux (www.debian.org)
Custom Programming| Debian GNU/Linux is a free replacement for
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | DOS/Windows -- check it out at www.debian.org.
--+--
Find out how to avoid all those pesky crashes, lockups, application errors,
and slow applications at http://www.debian.org -- Debian can replace Windows
95 with a much more stable operating system.


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Re: interactive sound configuration utility

[Steve Dunham]

Hamish Moffatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I understand that the modularized sound drivers are now standard
> on Linux 2.0.32 and above. Given that, I think it would be good
> if we had a setup utility for sound, like the one provided
> with OSS/Linux.

Hmm, I didn't know this was in 2.0.32.  I'll have to look again.

I don't seen it in 2.0.33.  It is in the later 2.1.7x series, but they
break dhcpcd.  I'd like to get my sound chip working properly (I have
a hack that makes it work), but I'm waiting for modular sound drivers.

> Redhat have a sndconfig to go with the modularization patches
> (which they sponsored according to their web site). The latest
> sources were only in RPM format, the tar.gz was old, but I managed
> to battle with rpm long enough to extract them. (Conspiracy
> theories anyone?)

It's not that hard.  You "install" the source package with "rpm", and
pick up the pieces in /usr/src/redhat.

> Anyway it seems that sndconfig just probes for PnP cards with
> isapnptools' pnpdump and configures them, and only supports SB
> cards anyway. It'd be nice to have (I may work on a package(*))
> but it isn't exactly what I want. Does anyone know of anything
> like this somebody is working on, or are there people interested
> in working on it?

I'm interested in working on getting the YM715 chip working well.  It
is the one that comes on the Intel AL440LX "Atlanta" motherboard. It
needs better driver support because of IRQ sharing and weird names
for mixer device, and it needs isapnp (or a kernel-space equivalent)
to configure it.

> (*) Their manual page says that sndconfig configures sound on
> the Red Hat Linux system. Is it ok to change this if the software
> is GPL? Otherwise it would look strange.

If it's GPL.  And Red Hat says any software they write themselves will
be GPL'd.  Aside from this, we should try to keep ours as close to
theirs as possible so we can pass improvements back to them.


Steve
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Anybody tried to compile COAS ?

[Michael Sobolev]

I did.

What I have: home brewed python 1.5b2 (I did not try to package it, so I just
run ./configure ..., make install to get it on my computer).  Since almost
everything else is installed from hamm on ftp.debian.org, I do not have
appropriate libpthreads for libc6.  As result, my python is compiled without
threading support.

Results: everything in tests works fine for me, except for `tests/persist',
which I found a point of crash (and a simple fix) for, and qt ui interface.
Specifically, when a table should appear on screen, the program shows the
empty window, then pauses for a while, and core dumps.

As for python programs in `tests' tree, all of them work fine, except for UI
stuff.

Having issued `make install' in root of coas distribution, I got a lot of good
and different files on my disk.  But I was unable to get anything meaningful
from it.  So, I am trying to understand the underlying ideology. :)

--Mike


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intent to package gmemusage

[Adrian Bridgett]

gmemusage is a rather neat memory monitor which displays a bar chart of
memory usage divided by process. It displays the number of each process name
(e.g. (4) bash means there are four copies running) and is periodically
updated.

Main site:   http://reality.sgi.com/raju/software

Adrian

email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   | Debian Linux - www.debian.org
http://www.poboxes.com/adrian.bridgett   | Because bloated, unstable 
PGP key available on public key servers  | operating systems are from MS


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Re: Self Referencing depends

[Adrian Bridgett]

On Wed, Jan 07, 1998 at 11:49:46AM +0100, Christian Schwarz wrote:
> 
> Why has "unzip" to "Provide" itself? As "unzip" is a _real_ package, there
> should be no need for a "virtual" package. (Of course, "unzip-crypt" would
> have to Provide: unzip.)

Even if this is uneccessary, I think it would be nice to allow it (or even
encourage it?). It makes script writing easier (egrep "^Provides:.* unzip").

Adrian

email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   | Debian Linux - www.debian.org
http://www.poboxes.com/adrian.bridgett   | Because bloated, unstable 
PGP key available on public key servers  | operating systems are from MS


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Re: xaw incompatibilities

[Joey Hess]

Meskes, Michael wrote:
> I just filed bug reports against nextaw and xaw95 because they don't
> list axe as incompatible. However, afterwards Ray told me that I could
> as well include the incompatibility list with axe. So I wonder which way
> is to prefer?

It's much better if you include it with axe.

-- 
see shy jo


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Re: Debian 2.0 release requirements

[Miquel van Smoorenburg]

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Yann Dirson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Alex Yukhimets writes:
> > if something
> > bad happened and you created a file(s) with some non-ascii charachters,
> > "ls" will trash the console while "ls | less" will show you everything
> > and let you delete it.
>
>?? Why on earth do you need less for that ?  
>Doesn't "LANG=C /bin/ls -b" do the right job for that ?

Besides, you can configure less so that it uses the latin-1 character set
which is a superset of ASCII. Almost all terminals (certainly the Linux
console, xterm and rxvt) support that by default. Characters not in that
set will be shown as escaped control characters.

It's nice to be able to see Á Å Ï ïáî etc by default.

Mike.
-- 
 Miquel van Smoorenburg |  The dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac lay in his bed
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |  awake all night wondering if there is a doG


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Re: Uncompress /usr/doc/copyright/GPL.gz please

[Santiago Vila]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

On 8 Jan 1998, John Goerzen wrote:
> Can /usr/doc/copyright/GPL.gz be uncompressed in the future?

It will be uncompressed in the future. See Bug #15025.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: 2.6.3ia
Charset: latin1

iQCVAgUBNLUoSCqK7IlOjMLFAQErLAQAmKQSIHqXKSujDuSTdvGiYtzRE3D5ieq7
EwxUNEUGXNvduLdqMmO1e2e8xVUQ1cHmUejrFMqk7ePvHbqKmut+2Ei+clkwvhgy
K6OkVyjxjg/huWHVt68ZfSYcJR/i++zLXV8OQ6E1/ghLmRe0OxSahR49ba3JFu7j
WObts7Sm498=
=of10
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Bug system changed

[Ian Jackson]

I've just changed the bug system on master to use my new parameterised
version.  I hope all is still working well - I've done some cursory
tests, and it doesn't seem _completely_ broken.

Please report all problems ASAP.

Guy: if it all goes apeshit then just get one of the
[EMAIL PROTECTED] people (if you're not one) to disable my
crontab.  The bug mail will pile up in the bug system's queue and I'll
fix it tomorrow.

Ian.


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Bug#16727: project: xload is no longer available.

[Mark W. Eichin]

sigh.  Alright, if you can forward those diffs to this bug report,
I'll look into it; xcontrib doesn't take all that long to build so I
can probably try to send it off this weekend.


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Re: Is there a maintainer for the install doc?

[Igor Grobman]

> Thanks for using NetForward!
> http://www.netforward.com
> v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
> 
> > > Is anyone maintaining the Debian installation manual?
> > > I know that Sven is no longer doing it. If not,
> > > we will need a volunteer.
> > 
> > I'd like to maintain it.  I plan to  be active on the 
> [snip]
> Great!
> 
> One change that is needed is to change lines such as
> rawrite2.exe
> to
> rawrite2.exe

I am afraid this is the shortcoming of debiandoc-sgml which generates the text 
and html versions.  Should I manually (using a script) change the URLs after 
generating the html version?


> 
> This will allow the same pages to be used on an ftp site or
> on a web site.
> 
> A few shortcomings of the current install docs:
> 
> They don't even mention fips anywhere, let alone how to use it to avoid
> having to reinstall windoze (The developer who creates the tools to safely
> ,i.e. non-destructively, modify existing partitions during the installation
> should get the Most Valuable Developer of the year award). 

Partition Magic does it just fine with FAT/FAT32 partitions, but it costs 
money...
> 
> Newbies could really use some guidance on deciding how big to make partitions.
> 
> Divide into more pages so it doesn't seem so intimidating.
> 
> We already have the easiest to maintain distribution. We could really get some
> converts if it was the easiest to install. Good clear instructions
> really make a difference.

Ok, suggestions recorded.  I also plan to heavily modify the bootdisk install 
instructions.  From my experience with helping people on #debian and 
debian-user, the instructions are not clear enough.  Another thing I want to 
add is a section describing PPP setup (or maybe at least point to relevant 
docs) since it seems to be the most frequently asked newbie question.


Any more suggestions?


Thanks.
-- 
Proudly running Debian Linux! Linux vs. Windows is a no-Win situation
Igor Grobman   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



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Locked out of Root after attemting to change shells

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

To whom it may concern:

  I recently installed Debian Linux 1.3 on my computer, and while I 
was trying to change my login shell for root the other day with chsh, 
I accidently typed in an incorrect path to the shell I wanted.  Being 
root, I was not restricted in the path choice that I made, so now 
every time I log on as root, I get an error message that says 
'shell not found' and I am promptly logged off the system.  Is there 
any way to correct this problem short of reinstalling everything 
again?  I would greatly appreciate any help you could provide.

Sincerely,

Steve Beitzel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Locked out of Root after attemting to change shells

[Will Lowe]

On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> was trying to change my login shell for root the other day with chsh, 
> I accidently typed in an incorrect path to the shell I wanted.  Being 
Learn to use sudo,  when you need to work as root.  It helps eliminate
some "oops"es that can really fuggle things up. :)

> every time I log on as root, I get an error message that says 'shell not
> found' and I am promptly logged off the system.  Is there 
edit  /etc/passwd and change the shell entry (last one on the line for
root)  to whatever you wanted it to be.  You'll probably need to boot from
the rescue disk and mount the filesystem,  then edit the file,
because you can't edit /etc/passwd without root priveledges.

For example,  

root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash

is the line that concerns root,  and you want to change /bin/bash to
/bin/tcsh or whatever.  Make a backup copy of the passwd file 'fore you
play with it,  though.

Will


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Re: Is there a maintainer for the install doc?

[jdassen]

> > A few shortcomings of the current install docs:
> > 
> > They don't even mention fips anywhere, let alone how to use it to avoid
> > having to reinstall windoze (The developer who creates the tools to
> > safely ,i.e. non-destructively, modify existing partitions during the
> > installation should get the Most Valuable Developer of the year award). 
> 
> Partition Magic does it just fine with FAT/FAT32 partitions, but it costs
> money...

There's a FIPS1.5b on the Linux FAT32 page that can at least partially deal
with FAT32. It's possibly not very reliable yet; check dejanews for
"FIPS1.5b".

Ray
-- 
UNFAIR  Term applied to advantages enjoyed by other people which we tried 
to cheat them out of and didn't manage. See also DISHONESTY, SNEAKY, 
UNDERHAND and JUST LUCKY I GUESS. 
- The Hipcrime Vocab by Chad C. Mulligan  


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Re: Locked out of Root after attemting to change shells

[Brandon Mitchell]

On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> To whom it may concern:
> 
>   I recently installed Debian Linux 1.3 on my computer, and while I 
> was trying to change my login shell for root the other day with chsh, 
> I accidently typed in an incorrect path to the shell I wanted.  Being 
> root, I was not restricted in the path choice that I made, so now 
> every time I log on as root, I get an error message that says 
> 'shell not found' and I am promptly logged off the system.  Is there 
> any way to correct this problem short of reinstalling everything 
> again?  I would greatly appreciate any help you could provide.

I think you can get su to work, but you may have to tell it what program
to run instead of the login shell.

HTH,
Brandon


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Re: Is there a maintainer for the install doc?

[James A . Treacy]

> > One change that is needed is to change lines such as
> > rawrite2.exe
> > to
> > rawrite2.exe
> 
> I am afraid this is the shortcoming of debiandoc-sgml which generates the 
> text 
> and html versions.  Should I manually (using a script) change the URLs after 
> generating the html version?
> 
I'd really appreciate it. I am currently just linking the ftp version
as I have to make changes every time the doc is updated.

[snip]
> Ok, suggestions recorded.  I also plan to heavily modify the bootdisk install 
> instructions.  From my experience with helping people on #debian and 
> debian-user, the instructions are not clear enough.  Another thing I want to 
> add is a section describing PPP setup (or maybe at least point to relevant 
> docs) since it seems to be the most frequently asked newbie question.
> 
Greeeat.
> 
> Any more suggestions?
> 
Yeah. Make the install auto-detect and configure all known and future hardware
automatically. After that there are a few small wars I'd like you to end.

- Jay


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Information

[Edmund P. Morgan]

Hi developers,

I would like to ask the following questions?

1. Does Debian 1.3.1 support the 3Com 3c905 NIC in 100 Mbps mode?
2. Does Debian support the above NIC without any kernel patches (native)?
3. When will the new version (2.0) of Debian be released?
4. Will Debian v2.0 support the above questions #1 and #2?
5. Will I be able to do a in place update of Debian from 1.3.1 to 2.0 without a 
fresh install?  (currently I'm running Slackware, but I would like to move to 
Debian)

Thanks,

Edmund P. Morgan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Information

[Jean Pierre LeJacq]

On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Edmund P. Morgan wrote:

> 1. Does Debian 1.3.1 support the 3Com 3c905 NIC in 100 Mbps mode?

Yes, I've been running it without any problems for over a year.

> 2. Does Debian support the above NIC without any kernel patches (native)?

Yes.  I'm not sure if the precompiled kernels have support for it so
you may need to compile it your self.  I use the modules facility for
the 3c905.

-- 
Jean Pierre



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Re: What's Debian's /usr/src policy

[Fabrizio Polacco]

On  8 Jan, Guy Maor wrote:
> Fabrizio Polacco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
>> I recently managed to add some sources in my -dbg shared lib packages,
>> to make them easily debuggable. (See bug#16038 on 30 Dec)
> 
> I rather liked your solution to the problem of debuggable shared libs,
> but you need to figure out a way to not need to be root to build
> it. (maybe you already did?)  Maybe we could start a thread on
> debian-policy about the best way to do -dbg packages?
> 

Good idea.
I posted a long summary to debian-policy.

Fabrizio
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Re: Is there a maintainer for the install doc?

[Fabrizio Polacco]

On  7 Jan, Igor Grobman wrote:
>> Is anyone maintaining the Debian installation manual?
>> I know that Sven is no longer doing it. If not,
>> we will need a volunteer.
> 
> I'd like to maintain it.  I plan to  be active on the 
> testing front, so I should be aware of all the quirks with the installation 
> and upgrading.

Igor, are you planning to take only the installation manual or all the
docs in boot-floppies?
Now that we are going to add translations to the installation disks, we
need to add also the translated manual; this needs coordination.

Fabrizio
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Re: Locked out of Root after attemting to change shells

[Nils Rennebarth]

On Thu, Jan 08, 1998 at 04:09:02PM -0500, Brandon Mitchell wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >   I recently installed Debian Linux 1.3 on my computer, and while I 
> > was trying to change my login shell for root the other day with chsh, 
> > I accidently typed in an incorrect path to the shell I wanted.  Being 
> > root, I was not restricted in the path choice that I made, so now 
> > every time I log on as root, I get an error message that says 
> > 'shell not found' and I am promptly logged off the system.  Is there 
> > any way to correct this problem short of reinstalling everything 
> > again?  I would greatly appreciate any help you could provide.
> 
> I think you can get su to work, but you may have to tell it what program
> to run instead of the login shell.
su --shell=/bin/bash

Nils

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| L>this is the special easter release of linux, more mundanely called 1.3.84 |
| W>Umh, oh. What do you mean by "special easter release"?. Will it quit  |
* W>working today and rise on easter? *


pgp2ixQO7y2iV.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: libc5 to libc6 auto-upgrade script

[Craig Sanders]

On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Lindsay Allen wrote:

> On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Craig Sanders wrote:
> 
> > dpkg -iB base/perl-base_*.deb interpreters/perl_*.deb
> 
> Did you miss the change re perl?
> 
> # perl-base must be configured before installing perl
> dpkg -iB */perl-base_*.deb && dpkg -iB */perl_*.deb

missed it entirely.

ok, here's the next revision:

---cut here---
#! /bin/sh

# safely upgrade a libc5 (bo) machine to libc6 (hamm).

# based on Scott Ellis' excellent "Debian libc5 to libc6 Mini-HOWTO"
# document at http://www.gate.net/~storm/FAQ/libc5-libc6-Mini-HOWTO.html

# Author: Craig Sanders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
#
# Copyright Status: This script is hereby placed in the public domain
#
# Revision History:
# v0.0: 1998-01-08 (morning)
#   - a rough transcript of scott's doc and my own experiences
# v0.1: 1998-01-08 (night)
#   - a few bugfixes
#   - i got unlazy and put in the right subdirectories for each package. 
# should run a lot faster.
#   - now checks for failure at critical points and exits with a different
# exit code for each failure.
#   - now uses 'binary-$(dpkg --print-installation-architecture)' instead 
# of 'binary-i386'.
# v0.2: 1998-01-09 
#   - fixed the perl-base/perl install (thanks Lindsay!)
#   - improved the DEVPACKAGES=$(dpkg --get-selections...) and added -dbg
# packages.
#
# TODO: (probably by somebody else.  this script is mostly good enough imo)
#   - error checking
#   - be smarter about locating the hamm rootdir (or just assume we're in
# the right directory to start with.  look for ./base/libc6_*.deb as a
# sanity check).

# first, build up a list of installed -dev packages so that we can
# remove them.  remove wg-15-locale too.
#
# this is necessary even on machines which aren't doing libc6
# development because libc5 can't be upgraded to latest version without
# removal of libc5-dev which also necessitates removal of other -dev
# packages like libdb1-dev and libdl1-dev if they are installed.

DEVPACKAGES=$( dpkg --get-selections | 
grep -v deinstall | 
cut -f1 |
grep -- "-dev$\|-dbg$" )

dpkg --remove -B $DEVPACKAGES wg-15-locale || exit 1

# now install the new versions of things.  Just the bare minimum to let
# the user safely run dselect for the rest of the upgrade.

# change this to prompt the user for the location of the debian archive.
cd /debian/dists/unstable/main/binary-$(dpkg --print-installation-architecture)

# libc
#
dpkg -iB base/ldso_*.deb base/libc5_*.deb base/libc6_*.deb \
base/timezones_*.deb admin/locales_*.deb || exit 2

# libreadline, ncurses, and bash
#
dpkg -iB base/ncurses3.0_*.deb libs/ncurses3.4_*.deb  || exit 3
dpkg -iB oldlibs/libreadline2_*.deb  || exit 4
dpkg -iB base/libreadlineg2_*.deb || exit 5

# paranoia says run ldconfig NOW. don't laugh, i've needed to do this on
# some libc5-libc6 upgrades. i know that the postinst scripts for the
# libs are supposed to do it but 
ldconfig
dpkg -iB base/bash_*.deb || exit 6

# new dpkg
#
dpkg -iB devel/libg++272_*.deb || exit 7
dpkg -iB base/dpkg_*.deb base/dpkg-dev_*.deb

# strictly speaking, dpkg-ftp and dpkg-mountable are not essential to
# upgrade right now but they're both very useful.
dpkg -iB utils/dpkg-ftp_*.deb admin/admin/dpkg-mountable_*.deb

# perl
#
dpkg -iB base/libgdbm1_*.deb devel/libgdbmg1_*.deb || exit 8
# paranoia says "run ldconfig now".
ldconfig
dpkg -iB base/perl-base_*.deb || exit 9
dpkg -iB interpreters/perl_*.deb

# paranoia says: "run sync", so lets do it :-)
sync ; sync ; sync 

# the user can now run dselect and select any -dev packages they want
# (and other packages too, of course :-)

more <<__EOF__

libc6 is now installed.  Now run dselect to upgrade the rest of your
system.  When that's done, reboot with "shutdown -r now" for the
utmp/wtmp wrapper functions in the upgraded libc5 to take effect.

BTW, if you aren't using it already, check out dselect's "mountable"
access method.  It's much faster than the standard "mounted" method, and
it logs everything that happens in /var/log/dpkg-mountable.  You'll want
to set "Allow overwriting repeated files?" to yes, and for extra speed
set "Enable MD5 checksumming?" to no.

Finally, remember to fix up wtmp and utmp, otherwise last and
who and sac etc wont work. here's what Miquel van Smoorenburg
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> had to say about this recently in debian-user
mailing list:

> 1. You need to update ALL your packages to hamm
> 2. Reboot if you haven't done that already
> 3. You need to move the wtmp file and truncate the utmp file:
>cd /var/log
>mv wtmp wtmp.libc5
>touch wtmp
>cd /var/run
>cp /dev/null utmp
> 4. You might want to reboot again to make sure
> 
> This is because the "struct utmp" and thus the utmp and wtmp
> "databases" are different between libc5 and libc6

__EOF__
---cut here---

> You have done a fine job, Craig.  I will build another bo system in the
> morning and run the script again.

thanks. i