Re: Bug#697868: network manager is installed when cd2 is also used
2013/1/13 Steven Chamberlain : > Hi, > > On 12/01/13 20:07, Praveen A wrote: >> I think it is an important enough program to be on cd 1. > > Yes probably. A user with only CD1 may need this before they are able > to download more packages or CDs. (I would have thought maybe synaptic > as well for novice users?). Yes, synaptic would be good too. Currently it installs gnome-packagekit (gpk-application), so it is not that essential. If we can swap it with synaptic in case of space constrains, that would be good I think. > I can think of a few ways this could be achieved: > > 1. add network-manager-gnome to debian-cd's tasks/wheezy/forcd1 - this > is no good though, because forcd1 is used for other desktops and not > just the (GNOME) CD1 (apt-offline was added to CD1 for similar reasons > to this, see #630805; also #231583: bpalogin, a long time ago); just > adding network-manager would not bring in the necessary GUI I think mobile-broadband-provider-info would also be required but I think it is a dependency already for network-manager-gnome. usb-modeswitch would also be required to get the modem working. Not sure if this is already in cd 1. > 2. add network-manager-gnome specially to debian-cd's > tasks/wheezy/Debian-gnome, after the forcd1 include - after all, we are > just trying to manipulate what goes onto CD1. > > 3. add network-manager-gnome to gnome-core (seems inappropriate) yes, there was big debate on it http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=681834 > 4. add network-manager-gnome to tasksel's task-gnome-desktop as a > required package - would this be sensible? Should a task 'require' > something maybe needed by a novice user to set up networking? > > > Out of curiosity, I did some other analysis: based on the > popularity-contest file in debian-cd/3.1.10, current wheezy amd64 CD1 > only has complete coverage down to rank #148 (libgpm2). And it has an > assortment of odd packages all the way down to rank #34291 (caribou-antler). Probably a good idea to replace all low ranked packages with libre office. But that would be a too difficult, I guess. > network-manager has rank #869. There are 278 packages with higher > popcon than network-manager that are not on CD1. network-manager itself > is quite big; it also has a lot of dependencies, but fortunately all > are on CD1 already. Another could be wicd, but as its dependencies are already on CD1, it would not be an issue. > The unanswered question is still - what would be displaced by placing > network-manager-gnome on CD1 Currently CD 1 has only 634M, so I guess some more additional package could be sneaked in. > > The xfce CD has network-manager(-gnome). So if you are limited by > bandwidth, this desktop could be a better choice anyway due to lower > install size and presumably smaller size of updates during its lifetime. > If a machine can only read CD-ROM but not DVD-ROM then it is probably > quite resource-constrained, and xfce should be better than gnome3 in > this regard also. I figured that already as it has both network manager and Libre Office. And most people may not like gnome 3. > The (GNOME) CD1 becomes less useful as the distribution grows in size. > On download pages and in documentation, I would think it best to promote > the various DVD and USB images primarily, followed by either a GNOME CD > *set* (suggesting CD1+2 minimum) or a single XFCE/LXDE CD, followed by > the mini images for netinst/netboot/console-only etc. Yes, the documentation needs update and people should be told about it early on or they will end up disappointing. -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് You have to keep reminding your government that you don't get your rights from them; you give them permission to rule, only so long as they follow the rules: laws and constitution. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-cd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOo+eVrVKt29eHO9w=MJ=Rya905Rzw_WPSt2r5P=bgCebOO=e...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Bug#697868: network manager is installed when cd2 is also used
On 16/01/13 15:36, Praveen A wrote: > 2013/1/13 Steven Chamberlain : >> 3. add network-manager-gnome to gnome-core (seems inappropriate) > > yes, there was big debate on it > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=681834 Ah I see, that's already been decided. A consequence of downgrading it to Recommends:, though, is that it is no longer prioritised for inclusion on CD-1. I think that was probably unintentional; that the intent was to make network-manager optional, rather than remove it altogether from a CD-1 default install. >>> 2. add network-manager-gnome specially to debian-cd's >>> tasks/wheezy/Debian-gnome, after the forcd1 include - after all, we are >>> just trying to manipulate what goes onto CD1. That may be the only sensible suggestion now. Perhaps mobile-broadband-provider-info, modemmanager and usb-modeswitch are all desirable as well. (These are recommends of network-manager[-gnome] and not already on CD-1). I'm not sure yet what packages these would displace, and hence if any of this is technically feasible. If not, users must be strongly warned of the limitations of GNOME CD-1, to avoid disappointment. The ultimate aim would be to offer GNOME CD-1 users the easiest possible, and comprehensive, means to set up networking and be able to install additional software. The rationale is similar to #630805 and #231583, whereby packages were prioritised for inclusion on CD-1 (but those were much smaller, and unintrusive...). Regards, -- Steven Chamberlain ste...@pyro.eu.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-cd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/50f72855.8090...@pyro.eu.org
Re: Bug#697868: network manager is installed when cd2 is also used
2013/1/17 Steven Chamberlain : > On 16/01/13 15:36, Praveen A wrote: >> 2013/1/13 Steven Chamberlain : >>> 3. add network-manager-gnome to gnome-core (seems inappropriate) >> >> yes, there was big debate on it >> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=681834 > > Ah I see, that's already been decided. A consequence of downgrading it > to Recommends:, though, is that it is no longer prioritised for > inclusion on CD-1. > > I think that was probably unintentional; that the intent was to make > network-manager optional, rather than remove it altogether from a CD-1 > default install. I agree. It was more for people who chose another program like wicd, I think. 2. add network-manager-gnome specially to debian-cd's tasks/wheezy/Debian-gnome, after the forcd1 include - after all, we are just trying to manipulate what goes onto CD1. > > That may be the only sensible suggestion now. > > Perhaps mobile-broadband-provider-info, modemmanager and usb-modeswitch > are all desirable as well. (These are recommends of > network-manager[-gnome] and not already on CD-1). yes. > I'm not sure yet what packages these would displace, and hence if any of > this is technically feasible. If not, users must be strongly warned of > the limitations of GNOME CD-1, to avoid disappointment. Yes. I think the debian installer should show this warning when it asks for new cds to scan, if we can't get this fixed in CD 1. > The ultimate aim would be to offer GNOME CD-1 users the easiest > possible, and comprehensive, means to set up networking and be able to > install additional software. Though easy installation of additional software would need a bit more polish I guess. A start here http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=698336 I will open a wishlist bug against synaptic as well for easy addition of mirrors. > The rationale is similar to #630805 and #231583, whereby packages were > prioritised for inclusion on CD-1 (but those were much smaller, and > unintrusive...). thanks for these references. apt-offline would be really useful. -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് You have to keep reminding your government that you don't get your rights from them; you give them permission to rule, only so long as they follow the rules: laws and constitution. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-cd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/caoo+evqiqefnlbgdh+agttswyv41re17gqjcfj3cyas5b0t...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Bug#697868: network manager is installed when cd2 is also used
2013/1/17 Praveen A : > Though easy installation of additional software would need a bit more > polish I guess. A start here > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=698336 I will open a > wishlist bug against synaptic as well for easy addition of mirrors. opened it for synaptic http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=698337 -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് You have to keep reminding your government that you don't get your rights from them; you give them permission to rule, only so long as they follow the rules: laws and constitution. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-cd-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAOo+eVr3P6Hgx_bV97UfAzg8dVePXQT3yh2R0OqYhXCh-k=a...@mail.gmail.com
