Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box

[Steve Thomas via CnC-List]

One reason might be that PSS systems have a catastrophic failure mode 
that can result in flooding when the graphite shatters.


I second the Buck Algonquin recommendation. I used conventional packing 
with teflon grease.


Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII - 1978
C&C36 MKI - 1980
-- Original Message --
   From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
   To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: svrebeccal...@gmail.com
   Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 9:27 PM
   Subject: Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box


Why would you want to?





Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device


Doug Mountjoy
Port Orchard YC
Port Orchard,  WA
sv Rebecca Leah
1988 C&C LF39




 Original message 
From: Stephen Thorne via CnC-List 
Date: 7/12/21  5:43 PM  (GMT-08:00)
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Stephen Thorne 
Subject: Stus-List Stuffing Box


Folks my 1990 34+ has the PSS shaft seal system.  I want to swap it out 
for a traditional stuffing box and am looking for advise on which 
stuffing box manufacturers to look into.  My prop shaft is 1 &1/8” which 
may be a challenge finding a suitable match but hopefully not a big 
deal.


Thank you


Stephen Thorne
34+ Deja Vu’
770.722.2848
 Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - 
use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
   Thanks - Stu





Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

+1 on that; though I have mine for only 9 years.

Marek

1994 #122 ”Legato”
Ottawa, ON



From: ssjohnson via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 11:10 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: ssjohnson 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box

I've had a PSS shafted, and a DRY bilge for 10 years...think it is great.
Spencer Johnson
84 LF38
Racine, WI

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

I’ve had a PSS shaft seal for our long time on our LF38 with no problems except 
when a shaft key broke and allowed the shaft to slip.  However, the same thing 
could have happened with packing.  I would never consider going back to packing.

Bob

Bob Boyer
s/v Rainy Days
C&C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230)
(Spending winters in warm places, and summers on the Chesapeake Bay)
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
email: dainyr...@icloud.com

> On Jul 13, 2021, at 7:26 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> +1 on that; though I have mine for only 9 years.
>  
> Marek
>  
> 1994 #122 ”Legato”
> Ottawa, ON
>  
>  
>  
> From: ssjohnson via CnC-List 
> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 11:10 PM
> To: Stus-List 
> Cc: ssjohnson 
> Subject: Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box
>  
> I've had a PSS shafted, and a DRY bilge for 10 years...think it is great.
> Spencer Johnson 
> 84 LF38
> Racine, WI
>  
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box

[Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List]

Hello all,

From time to time this discussion of stuffing box vs PSS dripless comes up and 
catastrophic failure is typically mentioned.

Has anyone on this list experienced a PSS catastrophic failure (that is the 
fault of PSS) or have direct knowledge of someone who did?

Installed PSS 4 years ago. Maintenance free = more time sailing.

Jeff Laman
1981 C&C34
Harmony
Ludington, Mi

Get Outlook for Android


From: Robert Boyer via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 7:34:29 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Robert Boyer 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box

I’ve had a PSS shaft seal for our long time on our LF38 with no problems except 
when a shaft key broke and allowed the shaft to slip.  However, the same thing 
could have happened with packing.  I would never consider going back to packing.

Bob

Bob Boyer
s/v Rainy Days
C&C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230)
(Spending winters in warm places, and summers on the Chesapeake Bay)
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
email: dainyr...@icloud.com

On Jul 13, 2021, at 7:26 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
 wrote:



+1 on that; though I have mine for only 9 years.



Marek



1994 #122 ”Legato”

Ottawa, ON







From: ssjohnson via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 11:10 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: ssjohnson 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box



I've had a PSS shafted, and a DRY bilge for 10 years...think it is great.

Spencer Johnson

84 LF38

Racine, WI



Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

Steve,

You likely would want a Buck Algonquin packing box.  Model # B/A 00PB113 is for 
a 1-1/8” shaft and comes in 3 versions with the proper Buck Algonquin hose  
different tube sizes 1-3/4”, 2”, 2-1/4".  It uses 3/16” packing, and I highly 
recommend using GFO marine shaft packing.  See links below for reference.


Buck Algonquin stuffing box
https://www.deepblueyachtsupply.com/marine-complete-assembly-packing-boxes 



GFO packing:
https://www.emarineinc.com/categories/GFO-Marine-Shaft-Packing 



-
Paul E.
1981 C&C Landfall 38 
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

> On Jul 13, 2021, at 7:10 AM, Steve Thomas via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> From: Stephen Thorne via CnC-List  > 
> Date: 7/12/21 5:43 PM (GMT-08:00) 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Cc: Stephen Thorne  > 
> Subject: Stus-List Stuffing Box 
> 
> Folks my 1990 34+ has the PSS shaft seal system. I want to swap it out for a 
> traditional stuffing box and am looking for advise on which stuffing box 
> manufacturers to look into. My prop shaft is 1 &1/8” which may be a challenge 
> finding a suitable match but hopefully not a big deal.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Stephen Thorne
> 34+ Deja Vu’
> 770.722.2848

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Old Harken Roller II

[Matthew via CnC-List]

I think you mean halyard “restrainer.”  

 

From: ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List  
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 12:27 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: ALAN BERGEN 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Old Harken Roller II

 

The fitting you are referring to is called a retainer. It is required on many 
boats with furler, if the halyard exits the mast too high.

 

Alan Bergen

35 Mk III Thirsty

Rose City YC

Portland, OR

 

 

 

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 6:15 PM Todd Williams via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

I am a new C&C34 owner and initially had trouble with my Harken Furler. The 
wire halyard wraps around at the masthead when furling. It was clear from the 
fraying wire and twisted coil that this had been a problem. I switched over to 
a braided line jib halyard and it works fine now. I also watched a youtube 
video (pretty old footage) that specified a 7 degree angle between the furling 
foil and the halyard up at the masthead and that Harken makes a fitting to 
mount on the mast a bit down from the top in order to increase that angle. Now 
that it works, I will clean and lubricate it to make it even better!

 

Todd R. Williams

C&C 34

Sodus Bay, NY

 

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 3:46 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

I rigorously flush my Harken furler's drum and swivel assemblies with dock 
water every spring and sometimes in the fall.  Use a hard jet spray and be sure 
to spray each assembly from various angles.  Particularly spray the drum 
assembly from below and in the drum itself.  You'll need to pull all the 
furling line out to do that.   Tie a knot in the line at the first stanchion 
block and make a note of which way it winds.

 

Harken roller furlers really don't require any additional lubrication, just the 
periodic rigorous flushing with water.  However, I do spray mine with McLube 
for good measure.  

 

--

Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA

 

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 2:15 PM Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

What did you use for lube? (for the FURLER!!)

 

 

Joe Della Barba

Coquina C&C 35 MK I

Kent Island MD USA

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 

   Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.paypal.me/stumurray__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!6YlWYkO7NwsV_P0Y7oYP05Zn-nzFbyNOzAiFUroL8dhRQzqE2xjrTcJUPDzMq5KmNRs$
 

Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box

[Steve Thomas via CnC-List]

The power boat that was docked next to me at a marina in Florida 
experienced such a failure. I was there when it happened. The owner 
knocked on my boat and wanted a portable water pump if I had one. Long 
story short, water came in faster than the bilge pumps could get it out 
and he got an emergency tow $$$ to the travel lift for a haul out. There 
was another failure that I did not personally witness within a year or 
so of that event. This was at a 600 slip marina, not a scientific sample 
or experiment I concede, but enough to scare me off. I make no claim 
that the devices were properly maintained, just that bronze packing 
glands don't shatter. It may be that newer "dripless" designs exist that 
won't fail in this way, I don't know, but I know for a fact that some 
designs can and do under some circumstances.


Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII - Ontario
C&C36 MKI - Florida


   -- Original Message --
   From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
   To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: jlam...@outlook.com
   Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 7:47 AM
   Subject: Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box


 Hello all,



 From time to time this discussion of stuffing box vs PSS dripless 
comes up and catastrophic failure is typically mentioned.




 Has anyone on this list experienced a PSS catastrophic failure (that 
is the fault of PSS) or have direct knowledge of someone who did?




 Installed PSS 4 years ago. Maintenance free = more time sailing.



 Jeff Laman


 1981 C&C34


 Harmony


 Ludington, Mi




 Get Outlook for Android 



From: Robert Boyer via CnC-List 
 Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 7:34:29 AM
 To: Stus-List 
 Cc: Robert Boyer 
 Subject: Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box



I’ve had a PSS shaft seal for our long time on our LF38 with no problems 
except when a shaft key broke and allowed the shaft to slip.  However, 
the same thing could have happened with packing.  I would never consider 
going back to packing.



Bob


Bob Boyer
s/v Rainy Days

C&C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230)

(Spending winters in warm places, and summers on the Chesapeake Bay)

blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com

email: dainyr...@icloud.com


 On Jul 13, 2021, at 7:26 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
 wrote:






+1 on that; though I have mine for only 9 years.

Marek

1994 #122 ”Legato”
Ottawa, ON





From: ssjohnson via CnC-List
 Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 11:10 PM
 To: Stus-List 
 Cc: ssjohnson 
 Subject: Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box




I've had a PSS shafted, and a DRY bilge for 10 years...think it is 
great.



Spencer Johnson


84 LF38


Racine, WI




 Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - 
use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
Thanks - Stu



   Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to 
help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the 
list - use PayPal to send contribution -- 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  
Thanks - Stu





Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box

[WILLIAM WALKER via CnC-List]

 I have had PSS droplets on two boats for over 20 years with absolutely no 
issues.  I wonder if failure related to fact it was power boat with more hours 
of turning shaft at higher rpms and maybe not sufficient cooling?In the end, 
it's what let's you sleep at night that's important.Bill Walker 
On Tuesday, July 13, 2021, 08:34:58 AM EDT, Steve Thomas via CnC-List 
 wrote:  
 
 
The power boat that was docked next to me at a marina in Florida experienced 
such a failure. I was there when it happened. The owner knocked on my boat and 
wanted a portable water pump if I had one. Long story short, water came in 
faster than the bilge pumps could get it out and he got an emergency tow $$$ to 
the travel lift for a haul out. There was another failure that I did not 
personally witness within a year or so of that event. This was at a 600 slip 
marina, not a scientific sample or experiment I concede, but enough to scare me 
off. I make no claim that the devices were properly maintained, just that 
bronze packing glands don't shatter. It may be that newer "dripless" designs 
exist that won't fail in this way, I don't know, but I know for a fact that 
some designs can and do under some circumstances.

Steve Thomas

C&C27 MKIII - Ontario


C&C36 MKI - Florida



 
 -- Original Message --
 From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: jlam...@outlook.com
 Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 7:47 AM
 Subject: Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box
 
  Hello all, 
 
   From time to time this discussion of stuffing box vs PSS dripless comes up 
and catastrophic failure is typically mentioned.
 
   Has anyone on this list experienced a PSS catastrophic failure (that is the 
fault of PSS) or have direct knowledge of someone who did? 
 
   Installed PSS 4 years ago. Maintenance free = more time sailing.
 
   Jeff Laman
   1981 C&C34
   Harmony
   Ludington, Mi
 
 Get Outlook for Android 
   From: Robert Boyer via CnC-List 
 Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 7:34:29 AM
 To: Stus-List 
 Cc: Robert Boyer 
 Subject: Stus-List Re: Stuffing BoxI’ve had a PSS shaft seal for our long 
time on our LF38 with no problems except when a shaft key broke and allowed the 
shaft to slip. However, the same thing could have happened with packing. I 
would never consider going back to packing. 
  Bob 
 Bob Boyer s/v Rainy Days C&C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230) (Spending winters in 
warm places, and summers on the Chesapeake Bay) blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com 
email: dainyr...@icloud.com  
 
On Jul 13, 2021, at 7:26 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
 wrote:
 
 
  
   
+1 on that; though I have mine for only 9 years.
 
 
 
Marek
 
 
 
1994 #122 ”Legato”
 
Ottawa, ON
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
From: ssjohnson via CnC-List 
 Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 11:10 PM
 To: Stus-List 
 Cc: ssjohnson 
 Subject: Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box
   
 
  
I've had a PSS shafted, and a DRY bilge for 10 years...think it is great.
   
Spencer Johnson 
   
84 LF38
   
Racine, WI
   
 
   Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu 
   Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu


 

 
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu  Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box

[Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List]

Let's exclude power boats -- an entirely different environment and demand on 
the hardware.
Jeff L.


From: WILLIAM WALKER via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 8:49 AM
To: Steve Thomas via CnC-List 
Cc: WILLIAM WALKER 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box

I have had PSS droplets on two boats for over 20 years with absolutely no 
issues.  I wonder if failure related to fact it was power boat with more hours 
of turning shaft at higher rpms and maybe not sufficient cooling?
In the end, it's what let's you sleep at night that's important.
Bill Walker

On Tuesday, July 13, 2021, 08:34:58 AM EDT, Steve Thomas via CnC-List 
 wrote:



The power boat that was docked next to me at a marina in Florida experienced 
such a failure. I was there when it happened. The owner knocked on my boat and 
wanted a portable water pump if I had one. Long story short, water came in 
faster than the bilge pumps could get it out and he got an emergency tow $$$ to 
the travel lift for a haul out. There was another failure that I did not 
personally witness within a year or so of that event. This was at a 600 slip 
marina, not a scientific sample or experiment I concede, but enough to scare me 
off. I make no claim that the devices were properly maintained, just that 
bronze packing glands don't shatter. It may be that newer "dripless" designs 
exist that won't fail in this way, I don't know, but I know for a fact that 
some designs can and do under some circumstances.

Steve Thomas

C&C27 MKIII - Ontario

C&C36 MKI - Florida


-- Original Message --
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: jlam...@outlook.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 7:47 AM
Subject: Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box

Hello all,

From time to time this discussion of stuffing box vs PSS dripless comes up and 
catastrophic failure is typically mentioned.

Has anyone on this list experienced a PSS catastrophic failure (that is the 
fault of PSS) or have direct knowledge of someone who did?

Installed PSS 4 years ago. Maintenance free = more time sailing.

Jeff Laman
1981 C&C34
Harmony
Ludington, Mi

Get Outlook for 
Android


From: Robert Boyer via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 7:34:29 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Robert Boyer 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box
I’ve had a PSS shaft seal for our long time on our LF38 with no problems except 
when a shaft key broke and allowed the shaft to slip. However, the same thing 
could have happened with packing. I would never consider going back to packing.

Bob

Bob Boyer
s/v Rainy Days
C&C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230)
(Spending winters in warm places, and summers on the Chesapeake Bay)
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
email: dainyr...@icloud.com

On Jul 13, 2021, at 7:26 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
 wrote:



+1 on that; though I have mine for only 9 years.

Marek

1994 #122 ”Legato”

Ottawa, ON

From: ssjohnson via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 11:10 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: ssjohnson 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box

I've had a PSS shafted, and a DRY bilge for 10 years...think it is great.

Spencer Johnson

84 LF38

Racine, WI

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution -- 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
 Thanks - Stu




Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 

 Thanks - Stu
Thanks t

Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Jeff,

As you mentioned earlier, this topic shows up every so often.

As a PSS user, I am obviously biased.

The stuck graphite face was an issue in older designs (the unvented type). The 
Volvo version of the dripless seal still requires burping.

I can imagine that if I were to sail around the world, I might prefer the 
traditional stuffing box (the maintenance is easier and the spare parts can be 
fabricated by a skilled blacksmith (😉)), but if you sail in the area where 
spare parts are generally available, the dripless solution is completely 
reliable.

I am happy with my dry bilge.

Marek


1994 C270 Legato
Ottawa, ON



From: Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 9:25 AM
To: Steve Thomas via CnC-List 
Cc: Jeffrey A. Laman 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box

Let's exclude power boats -- an entirely different environment and demand on 
the hardware.
Jeff L.


Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box

[Stephen Thorne via CnC-List]

Because I’ll sleep better at night.  The PSS is a nice system .. used it
for years.  However .. a system failure would suck.


On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 9:27 PM Doug Mountjoy 
wrote:

> Why would you want to?
>
>
>
> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>
> Doug Mountjoy
> Port Orchard YC
> Port Orchard,  WA
> sv Rebecca Leah
> 1988 C&C LF39
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Stephen Thorne via CnC-List 
> Date: 7/12/21 5:43 PM (GMT-08:00)
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Stephen Thorne 
> Subject: Stus-List Stuffing Box
>
> Folks my 1990 34+ has the PSS shaft seal system.  I want to swap it out
> for a traditional stuffing box and am looking for advise on which stuffing
> box manufacturers to look into.  My prop shaft is 1 &1/8” which may be a
> challenge finding a suitable match but hopefully not a big deal.
>
> Thank you
>
> Stephen Thorne
> 34+ Deja Vu’
> 770.722.2848
>
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

A failure of the hose (or it’s clamps) that connects the stuffing box to the 
boat would suck too!

I think there are a lot more things on a boat to worry about…

Bob Boyer
s/v Rainy Days
C&C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230)
(Spending winters in warm places, and summers on the Chesapeake Bay)
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
email: dainyr...@icloud.com

> On Jul 13, 2021, at 11:09 AM, Stephen Thorne via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Because I’ll sleep better at night.  The PSS is a nice system .. used it for 
> years.  However .. a system failure would suck.  
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 9:27 PM Doug Mountjoy  
>> wrote:
>> Why would you want to? 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>> 
>> Doug Mountjoy
>> Port Orchard YC
>> Port Orchard,  WA
>> sv Rebecca Leah
>> 1988 C&C LF39 
>> 
>> 
>>  Original message 
>> From: Stephen Thorne via CnC-List 
>> Date: 7/12/21 5:43 PM (GMT-08:00)
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Cc: Stephen Thorne 
>> Subject: Stus-List Stuffing Box
>> 
>> Folks my 1990 34+ has the PSS shaft seal system.  I want to swap it out for 
>> a traditional stuffing box and am looking for advise on which stuffing box 
>> manufacturers to look into.  My prop shaft is 1 &1/8” which may be a 
>> challenge finding a suitable match but hopefully not a big deal.
>> 
>> Thank you
>> 
>> Stephen Thorne
>> 34+ Deja Vu’
>> 770.722.2848
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
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send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: PSS Stuffing Box

[Fred Hazzard via CnC-List]

Years ago a small piece of wood came up thru the shaft log into the bellows and 
wedged itself between the stainless and graphite rings. The boat sank 
overnight. 
The moral of this story is that you should periodically check the pressure of 
the bellows. 
My stainless ring had slipped. 

Fred Hazzard
S/V Fury 
C&C 44

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 13, 2021, at 6:41 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Jeff,
>  
> As you mentioned earlier, this topic shows up every so often.
>  
> As a PSS user, I am obviously biased.
>  
> The stuck graphite face was an issue in older designs (the unvented type). 
> The Volvo version of the dripless seal still requires burping.
>  
> I can imagine that if I were to sail around the world, I might prefer the 
> traditional stuffing box (the maintenance is easier and the spare parts can 
> be fabricated by a skilled blacksmith (😉)), but if you sail in the area where 
> spare parts are generally available, the dripless solution is completely 
> reliable.
>  
> I am happy with my dry bilge.
>  
> Marek
>  
>  
> 1994 C270 Legato
> Ottawa, ON
>  
>  
>  
> From: Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List  
> Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 9:25 AM
> To: Steve Thomas via CnC-List 
> Cc: Jeffrey A. Laman 
> Subject: Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box
>  
> Let's exclude power boats -- an entirely different environment and demand on 
> the hardware.
> Jeff L.
>  
>  
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: PSS Stuffing Box

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

Fred:

I’ve never heard or imagined anything so strange.  First, the shaft seal is a 
good foot or more below the waterline.  Pieces of wood generally float—so they 
would normally be near the surface of the water.  And then have a piece of wood 
lodge between the stainless and graphite seal on top of all that!  I would 
think the odds of that happening by natural occurrence would be astronomical.

Bob Boyer
s/v Rainy Days
C&C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230)
(Spending winters in warm places, and summers on the Chesapeake Bay)
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
email: dainyr...@icloud.com

> On Jul 13, 2021, at 11:45 AM, Fred Hazzard via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Years ago a small piece of wood came up thru the shaft log into the bellows 
> and wedged itself between the stainless and graphite rings. The boat sank 
> overnight. 
> The moral of this story is that you should periodically check the pressure of 
> the bellows. 
> My stainless ring had slipped. 
> 
> Fred Hazzard
> S/V Fury 
> C&C 44
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Jul 13, 2021, at 6:41 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> Jeff,
>>  
>> As you mentioned earlier, this topic shows up every so often.
>>  
>> As a PSS user, I am obviously biased.
>>  
>> The stuck graphite face was an issue in older designs (the unvented type). 
>> The Volvo version of the dripless seal still requires burping.
>>  
>> I can imagine that if I were to sail around the world, I might prefer the 
>> traditional stuffing box (the maintenance is easier and the spare parts can 
>> be fabricated by a skilled blacksmith (😉)), but if you sail in the area 
>> where spare parts are generally available, the dripless solution is 
>> completely reliable.
>>  
>> I am happy with my dry bilge.
>>  
>> Marek
>>  
>>  
>> 1994 C270 Legato
>> Ottawa, ON
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List  
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 9:25 AM
>> To: Steve Thomas via CnC-List 
>> Cc: Jeffrey A. Laman 
>> Subject: Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box
>>  
>> Let's exclude power boats -- an entirely different environment and demand on 
>> the hardware.
>> Jeff L.
>>  
>>  
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
>> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - 
>> Stu
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: PSS Stuffing Box

[Matthew via CnC-List]

Maybe that’s what the owner told the insurance company.

 

From: Robert Boyer via CnC-List  
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 11:56 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Robert Boyer 
Subject: Stus-List Re: PSS Stuffing Box

 

Fred:

 

I’ve never heard or imagined anything so strange.  First, the shaft seal is a 
good foot or more below the waterline.  Pieces of wood generally float—so they 
would normally be near the surface of the water.  And then have a piece of wood 
lodge between the stainless and graphite seal on top of all that!  I would 
think the odds of that happening by natural occurrence would be astronomical.

Bob Boyer

s/v Rainy Days

C&C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230)

(Spending winters in warm places, and summers on the Chesapeake Bay)

blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com

email: dainyr...@icloud.com  





On Jul 13, 2021, at 11:45 AM, Fred Hazzard via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Years ago a small piece of wood came up thru the shaft log into the bellows 
and wedged itself between the stainless and graphite rings. The boat sank 
overnight. 

The moral of this story is that you should periodically check the pressure of 
the bellows. 

My stainless ring had slipped. 

 

Fred Hazzard

S/V Fury 

C&C 44

Sent from my iPhone





On Jul 13, 2021, at 6:41 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

Jeff,

 

As you mentioned earlier, this topic shows up every so often.

 

As a PSS user, I am obviously biased.

 

The stuck graphite face was an issue in older designs (the unvented type). The 
Volvo version of the dripless seal still requires burping.

 

I can imagine that if I were to sail around the world, I might prefer the 
traditional stuffing box (the maintenance is easier and the spare parts can be 
fabricated by a skilled blacksmith (😉)), but if you sail in the area where 
spare parts are generally available, the dripless solution is completely 
reliable.

 

I am happy with my dry bilge.

 

Marek

 

 

1994 C270 Legato

Ottawa, ON

 

 

 

From: Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 9:25 AM
To: Steve Thomas via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: Jeffrey A. Laman mailto:jlam...@outlook.com> >
Subject: Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box

 

Let's exclude power boats -- an entirely different environment and demand on 
the hardware.

Jeff L.

 

 

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: PSS Stuffing Box

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Not to mention that this piece of wood had to drift through the shaft log and 
the bellows before reaching the seal.

Marek
From: Robert Boyer via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 11:56 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Robert Boyer 
Subject: Stus-List Re: PSS Stuffing Box

Fred:

I’ve never heard or imagined anything so strange.  First, the shaft seal is a 
good foot or more below the waterline.  Pieces of wood generally float—so they 
would normally be near the surface of the water.  And then have a piece of wood 
lodge between the stainless and graphite seal on top of all that!  I would 
think the odds of that happening by natural occurrence would be astronomical.
Bob Boyer
s/v Rainy Days
C&C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230)
(Spending winters in warm places, and summers on the Chesapeake Bay)
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
email: dainyr...@icloud.com



Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: PSS Stuffing Box

[Steve Thomas via CnC-List]

Bob,

  In the 20 years I've had my C&C27, little bits of wood or 
twigs have got sucked into the engine cooling water intake on several 
occasions and lodged in unobvious places. They caused partial blockages 
that were hard to diagnose and are memorable for that reason. Our 
sailing club is small river leading into Lake Erie so there is a lot of 
crap being driven down steam from time to time. Count yourself lucky if 
you don't have that problem.


Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII - Port Stanley, Ontario
C&C36 MKI -  Merritt Island, Florida


   -- Original Message --
   From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
   To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: dainyr...@icloud.com
   Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 11:55 AM
   Subject: Stus-List Re: PSS Stuffing Box

Fred:

I’ve never heard or imagined anything so strange.  First, the shaft seal 
is a good foot or more below the waterline.  Pieces of wood generally 
float—so they would normally be near the surface of the water.  And then 
have a piece of wood lodge between the stainless and graphite seal on 
top of all that!  I would think the odds of that happening by natural 
occurrence would be astronomical.


Bob Boyer
s/v Rainy Days
C&C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230)
(Spending winters in warm places, and summers on the Chesapeake Bay)
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
email: dainyr...@icloud.com

On Jul 13, 2021, at 11:45 AM, Fred Hazzard via CnC-List 
 wrote:


Years ago a small piece of wood came up thru the shaft log into the 
bellows and wedged itself between the stainless and graphite rings. The 
boat sank overnight.
The moral of this story is that you should periodically check the 
pressure of the bellows.

My stainless ring had slipped.


Fred Hazzard
S/V Fury
C&C 44

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 13, 2021, at 6:41 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
 wrote:




Jeff,

As you mentioned earlier, this topic shows up every so often.

As a PSS user, I am obviously biased.

The stuck graphite face was an issue in older designs (the unvented 
type). The Volvo version of the dripless seal still requires burping.


I can imagine that if I were to sail around the world, I might prefer 
the traditional stuffing box (the maintenance is easier and the spare 
parts can be fabricated by a skilled blacksmith (😉)),  but if you sail 
in the area where spare parts are generally available, the dripless 
solution is completely reliable.


I am happy with my dry bilge.

Marek


1994 C270 Legato
Ottawa, ON





From: Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List 
 Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 9:25 AM
 To: Steve Thomas via CnC-List 
 Cc: Jeffrey A. Laman 
 Subject: Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box




Let's exclude power boats -- an entirely different environment and 
demand on the hardware.



Jeff L.



















   Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to 
help with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the 
list - use PayPal to send contribution -- 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - 
use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - 
use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
   Thanks - Stu





Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: PSS Stuffing Box

[WILLIAM WALKER via CnC-List]

 Steve,   Raw water intake is drawing water in by means of a pump...no such 
mechanism is involved with a PSS seal.  Bill Walker CnC  36Pentwater, Mi.
On Tuesday, July 13, 2021, 12:45:23 PM EDT, Steve Thomas via CnC-List 
 wrote:  
 
 
Bob, 
 In the 20 years I've had my C&C27, little bits of wood or twigs have got 
sucked into the engine cooling water intake on several occasions and lodged in 
unobvious places. They caused partial blockages that were hard to diagnose and 
are memorable for that reason. Our sailing club is small river leading into 
Lake Erie so there is a lot of crap being driven down steam from time to time. 
Count yourself lucky if you don't have that problem. 

Steve Thomas

C&C27 MKIII - Port Stanley, Ontario

C&C36 MKI - Merritt Island, Florida



 
 -- Original Message --
 From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: dainyr...@icloud.com
 Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 11:55 AM
 Subject: Stus-List Re: PSS Stuffing Box
 
 Fred:
I’ve never heard or imagined anything so strange. First, the shaft seal is a 
good foot or more below the waterline. Pieces of wood generally float—so they 
would normally be near the surface of the water. And then have a piece of wood 
lodge between the stainless and graphite seal on top of all that! I would think 
the odds of that happening by natural occurrence would be astronomical.

Bob Boyers/v Rainy DaysC&C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230)(Spending winters in warm 
places, and summers on the Chesapeake Bay)blog: dainyrays.blogspot.comemail: 
dainyr...@icloud.com

On Jul 13, 2021, at 11:45 AM, Fred Hazzard via CnC-List  
wrote:



Years ago a small piece of wood came up thru the shaft log into the bellows 
and wedged itself between the stainless and graphite rings. The boat sank 
overnight. The moral of this story is that you should periodically check the 
pressure of the bellows. My stainless ring had slipped. 
Fred HazzardS/V Fury C&C 44

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 13, 2021, at 6:41 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
 wrote:



  
Jeff,
 
 
 
As you mentioned earlier, this topic shows up every so often.
 
 
 
As a PSS user, I am obviously biased.
 
 
 
The stuck graphite face was an issue in older designs (the unvented type). The 
Volvo version of the dripless seal still requires burping.
 
 
 
I can imagine that if I were to sail around the world, I might prefer the 
traditional stuffing box (the maintenance is easier and the spare parts can be 
fabricated by a skilled blacksmith (😉)), but if you sail in the area where 
spare parts are generally available, the dripless solution is completely 
reliable.
 
 
 
I am happy with my dry bilge.
 
 
 
Marek
 
 
 
 
 
1994 C270 Legato
 
Ottawa, ON
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
From: Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List  
 Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 9:25 AM
 To: Steve Thomas via CnC-List 
 Cc: Jeffrey A. Laman 
 Subject: Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box
   
 
  
Let's exclude power boats -- an entirely different environment and demand on 
the hardware.
   
Jeff L.

 

 
 Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help 
with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use 
PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu


 

 
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu  Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: PSS Stuffing Box

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

One of Touche' sisterships nearly sank when the engine compartment vent
hose dislodged and got wrapped around the prop shaft.  It damaged the
dripless seal bellows.  Fortunately, the owner was able to somehow seal the
bellows and save the boat.

I'm partial to traditional stuffing boxes myself.
-- 
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Stuffing Box

[Martin DeYoung via CnC-List]

I have owned 3 boats and completed 4 west coast to/from Hawaii crossings with 
PSS shaft seals installed. Calypso has had hers since 1999.

I read of a specific failure caused by lack of maintenance where a boat sat for 
many years allowing marine growth and corrosion to bond the SS and carbon 
together. Someone started the engine to move the boat without inspecting or 
burping the PSS Shaftseal.  The engine spun the shaft ripping the bellows.

I inspect the shaftseal and burp it after each significant length of 
inactivity. I replace the bellows every 7 to 10 years.

If a boat owner was unable or unwilling to inspect and maintain this type of 
shaftseal the more traditional stuffing box may be a better option.

Full disclosure; I know and have sailed with PYI’s owners and have toured the 
PYI shop. I have not and do not work for them nor sell their products and 
strongly recommend contacting PYI directly for the most accurate maintenance 
and installation info.

Martin DeYoung
Calypso
1971 C&C 43
Seattle/Port Townsend’s yard

On Jul 13, 2021, at 4:47 AM, Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List 
 wrote:


Hello all,

From time to time this discussion of stuffing box vs PSS dripless comes up and 
catastrophic failure is typically mentioned.

Has anyone on this list experienced a PSS catastrophic failure (that is the 
fault of PSS) or have direct knowledge of someone who did?

Installed PSS 4 years ago. Maintenance free = more time sailing.

Jeff Laman
1981 C&C34
Harmony
Ludington, Mi

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu
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costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: PSS Stuffing Box

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

I get a lot more water in the bilge from rain and swapping plug and paddlewheel 
than I do from the dripping shaft, so dripless is a non-issue for me.  I 
tightened up my stuffing box last year and since then dripping is almost 
non-existent and the stuffing box is still cool under motor power.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



> On Jul 13, 2021, at 3:13 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> One of Touche' sisterships nearly sank when the engine compartment vent hose 
> dislodged and got wrapped around the prop shaft.  It damaged the dripless 
> seal bellows.  Fortunately, the owner was able to somehow seal the bellows 
> and save the boat.
> 
> I'm partial to traditional stuffing boxes myself.
> -- 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List PSS Stuffing Box

[Robert Abbott via CnC-List]

David,
Could not have said it better...some years back I cleaned out the old 
stuffing and repacked and the stuffing box hardly drips...I have checked 
it after an hour or more under motor and it is cool to the touch.  Also 
get more bilge water from rainmy paddlewhell and plug water don't go 
to the bilge unless I screw up so I sponge it out.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - #277
Halifax, N.S.

On 2021-07-13 4:35 p.m., David Knecht via CnC-List wrote:
I get a lot more water in the bilge from rain and swapping plug and 
paddlewheel than I do from the dripping shaft, so dripless is a 
non-issue for me.  I tightened up my stuffing box last year and since 
then dripping is almost non-existent and the stuffing box is still 
cool under motor power.  Dave


S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT




Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List PSS Stuffing Box

[Robert Abbott via CnC-List]

 David,
Could not have said it better...some years back I cleaned out the old 
stuffing and repacked and the stuffing box hardly drips...I have 
checked it after an hour or more under motor and it is cool to the 
touch.  Also get more bilge water from rainmy paddlewhell and plug 
water don't go to the bilge unless I screw up so I sponge it out.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - #277
Halifax, N.S.

On 2021-07-13 4:35 p.m., David Knecht via CnC-List wrote:
I get a lot more water in the bilge from rain and swapping plug and 
paddlewheel than I do from the dripping shaft, so dripless is a 
non-issue for me.  I tightened up my stuffing box last year and since 
then dripping is almost non-existent and the stuffing box is still 
cool under motor power.  Dave


S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT






Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu