Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Some notes on the C&C 30 rating history at PHRF Lake Ontario.


1985 FS:168 NFS:168


Record created in the current database


1996 FS:162 NFS:162


Handicap adjustment by Central Council based on performance history


2000 FS:162 NFS:180


+18 Disconnect of NFS-SP from FS-SP rating


2006 FS:168 NFS:186


PHRF-LO did a blanket +6 sec/mile adjustment to all classes, more inline
with other PHRF regions


2010 FS:174 NFS:186


Performance based review by Central Council


2012 FS:174 NFS:195


A VPP analysis of "NFS-Delta" using a formula from Jim Teeters
changed the delta from 12 sec/mile to 21 sec/mile. All classes
were reviewed ( that fly spinnaker )




Michael Brown

Windburn
C&C 30-1







 From:   Randy Stafford  
 To:   cnc-list  
 Sent:   6/11/2019 3:13 PM 
 Subject:   Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating 



Thanks y’all for your interesting comments on this.


I got my new rating yesterday and it came back 180.  The handicapper wrote in 
the “notes and clarifications” section of my RSA’s PHRF certificate form the 
following: "There are no comparables listed in US Sailing for this model of 
boat in the Rocky Mountain Region. This is a compromise between lake sailing 
ratings of 174 at Lake Norman, Oklahoma and Texoma, TX; and the previous rating 
for this boat of 186/198. Mitigating factors are: 1. +10% above base weight, 
even when empty; 2. The lighter air pressure at altitude which makes it even 
more difficult to move a heavy boat.”


The 10% over base weight remark was from a discussion she and I had on 
“brochure weight” (8000 lbs for a 30 MK I as on sailboatdata.com) versus actual 
weight.  I’ve actually weighed my boat on a truck scale, and weighed all her 
gear.  I calculate she weighs about 8682 pounds with empty tanks and no gear 
aboard.  So with full fuel tank, anchor & rode, sails, etc., her as-raced 
weight is closer to 9000 pounds before crew weight.  According to the Schell 
regression formula, that 1000-pound difference in brochure versus actual weight 
translates to at least six seconds difference in rating, so the handicapper 
gave that to me.


In my RSA we don’t really have the local politics as badly as in some other 
areas apparently.  The handicapping committee is one volunteer, and the 
position turns over every few years.  I think most of our handicappers have 
tried to do a reasonably fair job with the information they have available.  
And none of them have been from the sailing industry.


That said, there are a couple boats in my fleet in my club that seem to have 
gift ratings.  There’s a Catalina 25 to which I give 43 sec/nm, and a Cal 22 to 
which I give 48 sec/nm.  In light air with everybody executing well, I might 
not beat them uncorrected, let alone corrected.  Both boats seem to be rated at 
least 12 seconds slower in my RSA than in most others RSAs in the US, and I’m 
sure their owners would strongly resist lowering their ratings, because they 
win a lot on corrected time.  I had a half-dozen races last year where I took 
line honors and they corrected over me.


My main competition is a pair of Catalina 27s and a Ranger 26, all well-sailed. 
 In heavy air the Ranger 26 can’t stay in control; he has to depower way before 
I do.  A couple times a season when the wind is really up, I’ll have the joy of 
beating the fleet by three minutes in a half-hour race.  But that’s the 
exception to the rule where I sail.  And unfortunately for me the Ranger 26’s 
rating didn’t change this year, whereas mine did - six seconds faster.


I accept that PHRF is an imperfect system.  At the end of the day, I’m out 
there on Wednesday nights to have fun.  That said, I like the competition, and 
I’d like it to be as fair as possible.


Cheers,
Randy
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO



On Jun 11, 2019, at 6:27 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List  
wrote:

 
 

Hi Randy
 
When comparing boats across different areas make sure you look at other boats 
in those areas as well.  Pacific NW tends to rate most of their fleet 9 – 12 
sec/mile  slower than most other areas … not just the C&C 30.
 
Also look at the prevailing wind conditions in the areas.  Northern California 
is known to be windy whereas LI Sound is known for fairly light winds.  A C&C  
30-1 would perform much better in the windier areas and should have a faster 
rating in Northern California than in LIS for example.
 
Yes PHRF sucks.  However all of the systems suck.  Some suck worse than others. 
 ORR, IMS, IRC, etc …require measurements of each boat.  It is difficult to  
find a measurer and quite expensive to get a boat measured.  However a 
measurement rule seems to be a lot fairer for point to point distance racing 
than a single number system.  You can have a race like Marblehead to Halifax 
that is hundreds of miles of mostly  reaching.  In that sort of race a big long 
waterline boat that is horrible at W/L short leg races will tend to do very 
well as it would be on its best point of sail most of the race and ther

Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Thanks Michael, that very interesting.

Cheers,
Randy

> On Jun 12, 2019, at 5:02 AM, Michael Brown via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Some notes on the C&C 30 rating history at PHRF Lake Ontario.
> 
> 1985 FS:168 NFS:168
> 
> Record created in the current database
> 
> 1996 FS:162 NFS:162
> 
> Handicap adjustment by Central Council based on performance history
> 
> 2000 FS:162 NFS:180
> 
> +18 Disconnect of NFS-SP from FS-SP rating
> 
> 2006 FS:168 NFS:186
> 
> PHRF-LO did a blanket +6 sec/mile adjustment to all classes, more inline
> with other PHRF regions
> 
> 2010 FS:174 NFS:186
> 
> Performance based review by Central Council
> 
> 2012 FS:174 NFS:195
> 
> A VPP analysis of "NFS-Delta" using a formula from Jim Teeters
> changed the delta from 12 sec/mile to 21 sec/mile. All classes
> were reviewed ( that fly spinnaker )
> 
> 
> 
> Michael Brown
> Windburn
> C&C 30-1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Randy Stafford  > 
> To: cnc-list mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> 
> Sent: 6/11/2019 3:13 PM 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MK I PHRF Rating 
> 
> Thanks y’all for your interesting comments on this.
> 
> I got my new rating yesterday and it came back 180.  The handicapper wrote in 
> the “notes and clarifications” section of my RSA’s PHRF certificate form the 
> following: "There are no comparables listed in US Sailing for this model of 
> boat in the Rocky Mountain Region. This is a compromise between lake sailing 
> ratings of 174 at Lake Norman, Oklahoma and Texoma, TX; and the previous 
> rating for this boat of 186/198. Mitigating factors are: 1. +10% above base 
> weight, even when empty; 2. The lighter air pressure at altitude which makes 
> it even more difficult to move a heavy boat.”
> 
> The 10% over base weight remark was from a discussion she and I had on 
> “brochure weight” (8000 lbs for a 30 MK I as on sailboatdata.com 
> ) versus actual weight.  I’ve actually weighed my 
> boat on a truck scale, and weighed all her gear.  I calculate she weighs 
> about 8682 pounds with empty tanks and no gear aboard.  So with full fuel 
> tank, anchor & rode, sails, etc., her as-raced weight is closer to 9000 
> pounds before crew weight.  According to the Schell regression formula, that 
> 1000-pound difference in brochure versus actual weight translates to at least 
> six seconds difference in rating, so the handicapper gave that to me.
> 
> In my RSA we don’t really have the local politics as badly as in some other 
> areas apparently.  The handicapping committee is one volunteer, and the 
> position turns over every few years.  I think most of our handicappers have 
> tried to do a reasonably fair job with the information they have available.  
> And none of them have been from the sailing industry.
> 
> That said, there are a couple boats in my fleet in my club that seem to have 
> gift ratings.  There’s a Catalina 25 to which I give 43 sec/nm, and a Cal 22 
> to which I give 48 sec/nm.  In light air with everybody executing well, I 
> might not beat them uncorrected, let alone corrected.  Both boats seem to be 
> rated at least 12 seconds slower in my RSA than in most others RSAs in the 
> US, and I’m sure their owners would strongly resist lowering their ratings, 
> because they win a lot on corrected time.  I had a half-dozen races last year 
> where I took line honors and they corrected over me.
> 
> My main competition is a pair of Catalina 27s and a Ranger 26, all 
> well-sailed.  In heavy air the Ranger 26 can’t stay in control; he has to 
> depower way before I do.  A couple times a season when the wind is really up, 
> I’ll have the joy of beating the fleet by three minutes in a half-hour race.  
> But that’s the exception to the rule where I sail.  And unfortunately for me 
> the Ranger 26’s rating didn’t change this year, whereas mine did - six 
> seconds faster.
> 
> I accept that PHRF is an imperfect system.  At the end of the day, I’m out 
> there on Wednesday nights to have fun.  That said, I like the competition, 
> and I’d like it to be as fair as possible.
> 
> Cheers,
> Randy
> S/V Grenadine
> C&C 30-1 #7
> Ken Caryl, CO
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2019, at 6:27 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Randy
>>  
>> When comparing boats across different areas make sure you look at other 
>> boats in those areas as well.  Pacific NW tends to rate most of their fleet 
>> 9 – 12 sec/mile slower than most other areas … not just the C&C 30.
>>  
>> Also look at the prevailing wind conditions in the areas.  Northern 
>> California is known to be windy whereas LI Sound is known for fairly light 
>> winds.  A C&C 30-1 would perform much better in the windier areas and should 
>> have a faster rating in Northern California than in LIS for example.
>>  
>> Yes PHRF sucks.  However all of the systems suck.  Some suck worse than 
>> others.  ORR, IMS, IRC, etc …require measurements of each boat.  It is 
>> difficult to find

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: compost toilet?

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

I am not sure that is an issue. I never did think it was going to make literal 
garden compost that could go right from the boat to my yard.
What I do worry about is how user friendly it will be and if it ends up being a 
stinking mess.
Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 4:24 PM
To: C&C List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: compost toilet?

This isn't the original articles but one that echos the fact that composting 
toilets don't actually compost.  I'm still looking for the original.

https://www.livesmallridefree.com/blog/why-your-composting-toilet-doesnt-actually-compost-poop

Josh

On Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 2:06 PM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Any link to that article?
Joe

ions.  Each and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the 
list - use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
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Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: compost toilet?

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

A composting toilet has MUCH less odor than any marine head.  The only reason 
for "not completely composting" is that it would take too long.  We change our 
solids container every 3 weeks (2 of us) while we're cruising and it looks like 
a very dark soil except for the most recent additions.

I would never go back to a marine toilet with a holding tank!

Bob

Bob Boyer
S/V Rainy Days (1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230)
Blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
Email: dainyr...@icloud.com
Annapolis, MD 
(Presently in Baltimore MD for the summer)

> On Jun 12, 2019, at 12:39 PM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am not sure that is an issue. I never did think it was going to make 
> literal garden compost that could go right from the boat to my yard.
> What I do worry about is how user friendly it will be and if it ends up being 
> a stinking mess.
> Joe
> Coquina
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh 
> Muckley via CnC-List
> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 4:24 PM
> To: C&C List 
> Cc: Josh Muckley 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: compost toilet?
>  
> This isn't the original articles but one that echos the fact that composting 
> toilets don't actually compost.  I'm still looking for the original.
>  
> https://www.livesmallridefree.com/blog/why-your-composting-toilet-doesnt-actually-compost-poop
>  
> Josh
>  
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 2:06 PM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> Any link to that article?
> Joe
>  
> ions.  Each and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the 
> list - use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
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Stus-List Spinnaker

[Tom Lynch via CnC-List]

Hi all,

I’m looking advice/recommendations on symmetrical spinnaker jibing on my 33
MK II

I’ve got a single set of spinnaker sheets

Should a deploy and add lazy sheets and guys?
Or use a twinning line barber hauling system

How to handle the baby stay?  Should I disconnect it and To facilitate a
Pole dip or do pole end for end jibing.

Appreciate anyone’s thoughts and opinions on this subject.

Tom Lynch
IndoIrish
C&C 33 MK II
Bayfield Wisconsin.
___

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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I believe that regardless of method (end-for-end or dip jibe) the consensus
is that the baby stay is best disconnected and stowed at/on the mast collar.

I've always been an end-for-end foredeck crew but that was on someone
else's boat.  With just 2 spin-lines (1 guy and 1 sheet) it kept the setup
simple.  We had twing blocks but only set them as an after though and most
of the time not even then.  The downhaul was usually effective enough
unless we were forced to be on really deep down wind runs for a long time.
The helmsman and tactician knew this was a slow point of sail so they
avoided that point of sail.

I've learned from this list that the end-for-end is typically good for
boats up to 35-ish feet.  Much over that and the pressures involved with
such a large pole and kite become difficult for even the biggest of crew to
manage.

On Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 3:23 PM Tom Lynch via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I’m looking advice/recommendations on symmetrical spinnaker jibing on my
> 33 MK II
>
> I’ve got a single set of spinnaker sheets
>
> Should a deploy and add lazy sheets and guys?
> Or use a twinning line barber hauling system
>
> How to handle the baby stay?  Should I disconnect it and To facilitate a
> Pole dip or do pole end for end jibing.
>
> Appreciate anyone’s thoughts and opinions on this subject.
>
> Tom Lynch
> IndoIrish
> C&C 33 MK II
> Bayfield Wisconsin.
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: compost toilet?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Bob,

I've been on boats with marine heads that absolutely stunk.

I've been on yours and can attest that I was not offended by any
discernable odor.

That being said, I believe you were on board my boat?  Did you recall
noticing any offending odors?  I may be nose blind to it but I would
typically say that my boat does not stink... I certainly hope it doesn't
because we have guests all the time.  I'll follow that up with the fact
that we don't hold back from using the head in the same way I use a septic
system toilet.  When the tank is getting full and ripe in the summer sun
the tank vent will release a foul odor *outside* for a moment while the
vac-flush is doing it's thing.  The odor lasts for about 30 second and only
if the wind isn't strong enough to carry it away.  It's a friendly reminder
that we need to pump the tank.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 2:00 PM Robert Boyer via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> A composting toilet has MUCH less odor than any marine head.  The only
> reason for "not completely composting" is that it would take too long.  We
> change our solids container every 3 weeks (2 of us) while we're cruising
> and it looks like a very dark soil except for the most recent additions.
>
> I would never go back to a marine toilet with a holding tank!
>
> Bob
>
> Bob Boyer
> S/V Rainy Days (1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230)
> Blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
> Email: dainyr...@icloud.com
> Annapolis, MD
> (Presently in Baltimore MD for the summer)
>
> On Jun 12, 2019, at 12:39 PM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> I am not sure that is an issue. I never did think it was going to make
> literal garden compost that could go right from the boat to my yard.
>
> What I do worry about is how user friendly it will be and if it ends up
> being a stinking mess.
>
> Joe
>
> Coquina
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Josh Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Monday, June 10, 2019 4:24 PM
> *To:* C&C List 
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: compost toilet?
>
>
>
> This isn't the original articles but one that echos the fact that
> composting toilets don't actually compost.  I'm still looking for the
> original.
>
>
>
>
> https://www.livesmallridefree.com/blog/why-your-composting-toilet-doesnt-actually-compost-poop
> 
>
>
>
> Josh
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 2:06 PM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Any link to that article?
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> ions.  Each and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support
> the list - use PayPal to send contribution --
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

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Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: compost toilet?

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

If your traditional boat sanitation system is stinking it usually means 
one of a few things,


it isn't vented properly and it essentially anaerobic

your hoses are so old they are emitting odor

you're flushing raw water and the dead organisms caught in your supply 
water hose are decomposing and stinking up the place.


As Josh said, if you have a properly designed system you shouldn't 
really get more than a hint every once in a while and that should be 
from the vents outside the boat.


Get Peggie Hall's book.  you'll learn loads (pun intended)

Danny
Rum Runner IV
Tartan 40 (Former Viking 33 owner)
Mattapoisett, Massachusetts



Meghan Markle Confirms Unfortunate News
track.volutrk.com
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5d0162f19d92262e03e47st02vuc

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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

Your spinnaker is just a small bit larger than mine – less than a foot longer 
in the foot and a few feet taller. That is possible to handle with two folks on 
the foredeck – end for end jibing and a 13 foot pole. On the 30-1, our pole is 
13 ½ feet and our hoist is 39 whereas yours is 44. We have been doing 
end-for-end and using a single set of sheets for over 25 years with success.

 

We do have a set of twings – the lines are run through blocks on the rail at 
the widest point and run back to cam cleats/blocks near the cockpit. We use 
them all the time, pull them tight when jibing, letting the ‘sheet’ end loose 
and keeping the pole end tight. We are not very brave and do not do serious 
reaching with the chute because it is full and high shouldered – would like to 
have a smaller, flatter, chute for reaching, but that just adds complexity for 
our short races. The 30-1 is very stout, I don’t know how tender the 33 is.

 

I have crewed on a number of boats with sheets/guys and dipping and I find our 
way is much simpler – and not so prone to mistakes. But I’ve crewed on J-80’s 
and find a sprit and asym easiest of all. The 115 I will be on tonight with an 
extra long pole is most difficult to get right.

 

Keep it simple and you will find it enjoyable.

Gary Nylander

St. Michaels MD 

30-1 Penniless

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via 
CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 4:17 PM
To: C&C List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker

 

 

I believe that regardless of method (end-for-end or dip jibe) the consensus is 
that the baby stay is best disconnected and stowed at/on the mast collar.

 

I've always been an end-for-end foredeck crew but that was on someone else's 
boat.  With just 2 spin-lines (1 guy and 1 sheet) it kept the setup simple.  We 
had twing blocks but only set them as an after though and most of the time not 
even then.  The downhaul was usually effective enough unless we were forced to 
be on really deep down wind runs for a long time.  The helmsman and tactician 
knew this was a slow point of sail so they avoided that point of sail.

 

I've learned from this list that the end-for-end is typically good for boats up 
to 35-ish feet.  Much over that and the pressures involved with such a large 
pole and kite become difficult for even the biggest of crew to manage.

 

On Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 3:23 PM Tom Lynch via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Tom,

The Enterprise-A was a C&C 34, which was very similar to yours. While I can say 
universally that you should disconnect the babystay when using the chute, I’ll 
state that the answer to your other questions, at least for me, depends on 
conditions. 

A single sheet and single guy, going end to end, is the simple way in light 
air, however, I would suggest the flexibility of changing how you do things 
when wind conditions increase. In moderate air I would add lazies. In heavy 
air, you and your foredeck ape will probably prefer to dip the pole, so that 
one end is always attached giving you better control. 

Skills-wise, your crew will also appreciate knowing how to handle various 
setups. 

As I said, no matter what, you’re going to want that babystay off, especially 
since your pole uphaul will help keep the pole up during those jibe maneuvers, 
and it will get caught up in the babystay if it’s fully attached doing an 
end-to-end jibe. It will be impossible to do a dip-pole jibe with a babystay in 
place. 

All the best, 

Edd

---—---
Edd M. Schillay
Captain of the “Starship Enterprise”
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island Yacht Club | City Island, NY
Venice Yacht Club | Venice, FL
www.StarshipSailing.com
-
914.774.9767   | Mobile
-
Sent via iPhone X
iPhone. iTypos. iApologize


On Jun 12, 2019, at 3:22 PM, Tom Lynch via CnC-List  
wrote:

Hi all,

I’m looking advice/recommendations on symmetrical spinnaker jibing on my 33 MK 
II

I’ve got a single set of spinnaker sheets

Should a deploy and add lazy sheets and guys?
Or use a twinning line barber hauling system 

How to handle the baby stay?  Should I disconnect it and To facilitate a Pole 
dip or do pole end for end jibing. 

Appreciate anyone’s thoughts and opinions on this subject. 

Tom Lynch
IndoIrish
C&C 33 MK II
Bayfield Wisconsin. 

___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Tom,

Good advice so far.  <35 feet end for end.

My most important advice = train your crew, and especially your
helmsperson, to visualize the boat turning under the chute.  NOT the chute
coming across the boat.  Have your crew visualize the chute going dead
downwind without changing aspect.  The boat just turns back and forth at an
angle to the chute.

Practice with your crew in light air.  Have the helmperson make slow,
smooth turns.  Let the bowman make the pole on the mast.  The bowman stands
just to leeward of the mast with the new sheet in one hand and the trip
line in the other hand.  The downhaul and twings (tweakers) get released.
On the command "gybing", he releases the pole jaw from the ring, slaps the
new sheet in the jaw, swings the pole across while releasing the old sheet
(new guy) and makes the other jaw on the ring.  "Mast - sheet - sheet
-mast".  At the last "Mast", the main is gybed.  The boat should be about
halfway through the turn.  Slow turn.  Slow.

If the bowman is having trouble, slow or even stop the turn until the pole
is made on the mast.

I'm not a big guy.  I've been doing foredeck for many years.  It's a
choreography between bowman and helmsperson.  The helmsperson has to LET
the bowman do the gybe.  The bowman should dictate the speed of the turn.
Too often, the helmsperson wants to complete the turn before the bow work
is finished.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 2:23 PM Tom Lynch via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I’m looking advice/recommendations on symmetrical spinnaker jibing on my
> 33 MK II
>
> I’ve got a single set of spinnaker sheets
>
> Should a deploy and add lazy sheets and guys?
> Or use a twinning line barber hauling system
>
> How to handle the baby stay?  Should I disconnect it and To facilitate a
> Pole dip or do pole end for end jibing.
>
> Appreciate anyone’s thoughts and opinions on this subject.
>
> Tom Lynch
> IndoIrish
> C&C 33 MK II
> Bayfield Wisconsin.
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker

[John and Maryann Read via CnC-List]

Ditto to what Edd advises except for:

1)  Really light air –we have an extra set of sheets ready to go of light 
sheets and shackles – reduces weight of the chute so it still can fly and makes 
a HUGE difference

2)  Heavy air – the 34 is rather tender so the chute overpowers everything 
and we find going with the 135 set wing on wing works much better as no 
roundups or excitement.  We are doing hull speed anyway so why push things??   
Your boat may be different

 

Cheers

 

John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C&C 34

Noank, CT

 

 

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Edd Schillay 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 5:05 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Edd Schillay
Subject: Re: Stus-List Spinnaker

 

Tom,

 

The Enterprise-A was a C&C 34, which was very similar to yours. While I can say 
universally that you should disconnect the babystay when using the chute, I’ll 
state that the answer to your other questions, at least for me, depends on 
conditions. 

 

A single sheet and single guy, going end to end, is the simple way in light 
air, however, I would suggest the flexibility of changing how you do things 
when wind conditions increase. In moderate air I would add lazies. In heavy 
air, you and your foredeck ape will probably prefer to dip the pole, so that 
one end is always attached giving you better control. 

 

Skills-wise, your crew will also appreciate knowing how to handle various 
setups. 

 

As I said, no matter what, you’re going to want that babystay off, especially 
since your pole uphaul will help keep the pole up during those jibe maneuvers, 
and it will get caught up in the babystay if it’s fully attached doing an 
end-to-end jibe. It will be impossible to do a dip-pole jibe with a babystay in 
place. 

 

All the best, 

 

Edd





---—---

Edd M. Schillay

Captain of the “Starship Enterprise”

C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

City Island Yacht Club | City Island, NY

Venice Yacht Club | Venice, FL

www.StarshipSailing.com

-

914.774.9767   | Mobile

-

Sent via iPhone X

iPhone. iTypos. iApologize






On Jun 12, 2019, at 3:22 PM, Tom Lynch via CnC-List  
wrote:

Hi all,

 

I’m looking advice/recommendations on symmetrical spinnaker jibing on my 33 MK 
II

 

I’ve got a single set of spinnaker sheets

 

Should a deploy and add lazy sheets and guys?

Or use a twinning line barber hauling system 

 

How to handle the baby stay?  Should I disconnect it and To facilitate a Pole 
dip or do pole end for end jibing. 

 

Appreciate anyone’s thoughts and opinions on this subject. 

 

Tom Lynch

IndoIrish

C&C 33 MK II

Bayfield Wisconsin. 

 

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Re: Stus-List Spinnaker

[John Irvin via CnC-List]

Good advice well put.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 12, 2019, at 6:10 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Tom,

Good advice so far.  <35 feet end for end.

My most important advice = train your crew, and especially your helmsperson, to 
visualize the boat turning under the chute.  NOT the chute coming across the 
boat.  Have your crew visualize the chute going dead downwind without changing 
aspect.  The boat just turns back and forth at an angle to the chute.

Practice with your crew in light air.  Have the helmperson make slow, smooth 
turns.  Let the bowman make the pole on the mast.  The bowman stands just to 
leeward of the mast with the new sheet in one hand and the trip line in the 
other hand.  The downhaul and twings (tweakers) get released.  On the command 
"gybing", he releases the pole jaw from the ring, slaps the new sheet in the 
jaw, swings the pole across while releasing the old sheet (new guy) and makes 
the other jaw on the ring.  "Mast - sheet - sheet -mast".  At the last "Mast", 
the main is gybed.  The boat should be about halfway through the turn.  Slow 
turn.  Slow.

If the bowman is having trouble, slow or even stop the turn until the pole is 
made on the mast.

I'm not a big guy.  I've been doing foredeck for many years.  It's a 
choreography between bowman and helmsperson.  The helmsperson has to LET the 
bowman do the gybe.  The bowman should dictate the speed of the turn.  Too 
often, the helmsperson wants to complete the turn before the bow work is 
finished.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 2:23 PM Tom Lynch via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Hi all,

I’m looking advice/recommendations on symmetrical spinnaker jibing on my 33 MK 
II

I’ve got a single set of spinnaker sheets

Should a deploy and add lazy sheets and guys?
Or use a twinning line barber hauling system

How to handle the baby stay?  Should I disconnect it and To facilitate a Pole 
dip or do pole end for end jibing.

Appreciate anyone’s thoughts and opinions on this subject.

Tom Lynch
IndoIrish
C&C 33 MK II
Bayfield Wisconsin.

___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

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Stus-List Nexus classic displays on eBay

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Boaters Resale of Texas has 2 Nexus Classic multicontrol displays on eBay
for $144.  Says they have NOT been tested.  They have 30 day return policy.

They had 3 but I just bought one.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Re: Stus-List Fwd: Offshore Trip to South Puget Sound

[Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List]

Hi Dave et al.
The wind was out of the north though I was able to sail up the coast, but
was quite close hauled and used the Yanmar to push through the waves. I did
not see wind below 15 knots, but not above 20 either.
I follow the commercial tow lanes. Info can be found here:
https://wsg.washington.edu/community-outreach/outreach-detail-pages/crabbertowboat-lane-agreements-download-charts-data-and-meetings/
It
is roughly the 50 fathom line. I know others that use this strategy
successfully, but it is not a guarantee some clown will not set his pot out
in the lane.

As you probably know, there are few bail out points except for La Push  and
Grey's Harbor. Some do not consider La Push a bail out point given the
narrow entrance etc, but there is no river bar there like Grey's and the
Columbia and it appears relatively protected from a North wind. Someone I
know that his been up and down the coast countless times said it really is
not a big deal to enter. I have not been in to LaPush myself fwiw. I have
been into Grey's harbor once and I would definitely consult the tide tables
before going over that bar.

KD

On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 5:39 PM David Castor via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Kevin,
>
> Were you able to (or choose to) sail while headed up WA coast?  Wind is
> generally out of the north.
>
> Also how far off the coast did you go and any issues with crab pots?
> Recommendation that we got was to follow the 50 fathom line.  But still saw
> pot floats.
>
> Congrats on your voyage.
>
> Dave Castor
> Port Angeles, WA
>
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 11:21 AM Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> C&C Owners,
>> Below is an email I sent to friends and sailors about my recent single
>> handed trip from Hood River, Oregon to Olympia, Washington. As the crow
>> flies it is less than 200 miles, but on the water it is up around 550
>> nautical miles. Read below and see the link to my custom lee clothes on the
>> starboard settee.
>> Cheers,
>> Kevin
>>
>> Sailors and Friends,
>> Last week I successfully delivered our boat from Hood River, Oregon to
>> Olympia, Washington. And as Lisa said, "The only thing that got hurt was
>> your lip." (It split from sunburn and salt spray.)
>> The 550 or so single handed miles by myself on 'Osprey' was quite a bit
>> work, but went very well. The leg from the Columbia Bar to Neah Bay was my
>> first solo offshore sail and was completed with no drama. Here were the
>> legs:
>>
>> 0. Hood River to Ilwaco, Washington - ~165miles, done Memorial Day Weekend
>>
>>
>>1. Ilwaco, Wa(Columbia River Bar) to Neah Bay, Wa - 187 nautical
>>miles / ~36hrs, June 2nd,3rd
>>2. Neah Bay to Sequim, Wa - 75 miles / ~11 hrs.  June 4th (very quick
>>with tail wind and flood tide)
>>3. Sequim, Wa to Bainbridge/Blake Island - 70 nautical miles / 12hrs
>>June 5th
>>4. Blake Island to Olymipia, Wa - 45 nautical miles, 10hrs June 6th
>>
>>
>>- Bus / Uber to home at 11pm June 6th and at work Friday 6/7.
>>
>>
>> Here's what worked or otherwise:
>>
>>- *My wife*- Lisa took care of the boys without complaint during last
>>weekend and the better part of last week. Getting permission to sail 
>> alone,
>>15-20 miles offshore into the Pacific, on a small sailboat, for round the
>>clock sailing for the better part of two days, is not something most 
>> people
>>do every day. She has faith in my skills as a sailor, the safety of our
>>boat, and a reasonable tolerance for risk. Nothing is possible without 
>> her.
>>- *My project team- *Filled in for me when I was gone for 4 days last
>>week. Given the stage in construction on our building and project 
>> dynamics,
>>it was important someone or multiple people be on site while I was gone.
>>Allen and Michael pitched in and it was appreciated.
>>- *Columbia River Bar -* I crossed at slack tide at the start of an
>>ebb. I actually began my crossing early so to be sure I was safely over 
>> the
>>bar before the ebb gained momentum. It was a little bumpy, but not
>>dramatic.
>>- *Tow Lanes - *A somewhat common strategy, when not racing and
>>heading up to Cape Flattery, is to take the commercial tow lanes. This in
>>order to reduce the risk of snagging a crab pot. I followed this strategy
>>and went out from the bar to the summer tow lanes, ~15 miles offshore. I
>>saw very few crab pots the whole trip, but did see ~4 and they made me
>>nervous each time.
>>- *'Osprey' C&C 30-2 *Though our boat is tender, she has great
>>qualities otherwise and is an extremely well designed boat. She carries
>>generous sail for her vintage, is relatively light, and has somewhat
>>efficient foils. Despite the constant 15-20 knots of wind close hauled, 
>> she
>>does not creak or flex audibly like other boats I have been on. The molded
>>head liner is silent. Our little Yanmar Diesel operated flawlessly at a
>>