Re: Stus-List Shackle for Genoa sheets

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

On my 34, I rarely used the babystay, but did so occasionally for rough 
conditions so I did not want to get rid of it.  Because it was constantly in 
the way, I replaced the wire stay with a heavy-load, low-stretch line (much 
easier to deal with).  It seemed to work just as well. 

From: dwight veinot via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2018 7:03 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: dwight veinot 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Shackle for Genoa sheets

Baby stays are nothing but trouble more adjustments and totatly in the way of 
everything else some C&C designs dont have them and some older designs have 
single spreaders and no check stays. Keeps sailing simple and just as good and 
just as fast like my 35  mkII i dare you to keep with me around the course. KISS



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-- 

Sent from Gmail Mobile



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Stus-List Baby stay (bs) bs

[Rob Ball via CnC-List]

We supplied the boats with Baby Stays, knowing that the mast could be tuned 
with a bit of bend so that it was not needed.  However, when the boat was brand 
new, on the first sail, and not tuned yet, things could go south.  So, we kept 
them on the boats.
In a violent seaway they do stabilize a pumping mast . . . .

Rob BallC&C 34
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Re: Stus-List Baby stay (bs) bs

[Richard Bush via CnC-List]

 Wow! Thank you Rob; This is one of the most amazing things I have learned from 
this list; I have defended the babystay to jib trimmers ad nauseam over the 
years under the premise that "C&C put them on there...they must be required"; 
We sail on a river, so we do not get the heavy pumping situations.  so now I'll 
have to find another reason!
 
Richard
 s/v Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 596; 
Richard N. Bush 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine 
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255 
 
-Original Message-
From: Rob Ball via CnC-List 
To: cenel...@aol.com ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com 

Cc: Rob Ball 
Sent: Thu, Nov 8, 2018 8:29 am
Subject: Stus-List Baby stay (bs) bs

 We supplied the boats with Baby Stays, knowing that the mast could be 
tuned with a bit of bend so that it was not needed.  However, when the boat was 
brand new, on the first sail, and not tuned yet, things could go south.  So, we 
kept them on the boats. In a violent seaway they do stabilize a pumping mast . 
. . .    Rob Ball    C&C 34 ___

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Stus-List Halyard Knot - was Shackle for Genoa Sheets?

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Hi Neil

Can you send a link to where I can see how to tie “Halyard Knot”?  I would like 
to use that instead of bowline on my jib halyard

Mike
Persistence
Halifax

No snow here … yet!

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of schiller via 
CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2018 10:32 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: schiller
Subject: Re: Stus-List Shackle for Genoa Sheets?

After buying a sheet and halyard kit from Cajun Ropes that came with loose 
ends, I have attached them with halyard knots and never had a hang up on 
shrouds or baby stays.  The only thing that we get hung up on occasion is the 
forward hatch.  I have found the halyard knot to be much better than bowlines 
anduse them for the main outhaul and reefing line as well.  On our old Redwing 
35, we had a continuous jib sheet with a luggage tag knot.  Both boats have 
separate spinnaker sheets so all we have to do is collect them up and tie them 
up on the bow pulpit.

Neil Schiller
1983 C&C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC
All covered up and tucked in before the snow flies this week.
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Re: Stus-List Halyard Knot - was Shackle for Genoa Sheets?

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

https://www.animatedknots.com/halyard/index.php

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 8:33 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Neil
>
>
>
> Can you send a link to where I can see how to tie “Halyard Knot”?  I would
> like to use that instead of bowline on my jib halyard
>
>
>
> Mike
>
> Persistence
>
> Halifax
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Halyard Knot - was Shackle for Genoa Sheets?

[schiller via CnC-List]

Mike,

Here is a good visual link to several useful knots.  In all my years of 
sailing (and tying loads while working in a lumber yard) I had not 
discovered the halyard knot.


https://www.animatedknots.com/indexboating.php

Neil Schiller
1983 C&C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC

On 11/8/2018 9:32 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote:


Hi Neil

Can you send a link to where I can see how to tie “Halyard Knot”?  I 
would like to use that instead of bowline on my jib halyard


Mike

Persistence

Halifax

No snow here … yet!

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*schiller via CnC-List

*Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2018 10:32 PM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* schiller
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Shackle for Genoa Sheets?

After buying a sheet and halyard kit from Cajun Ropes that came with 
loose ends, I have attached them with halyard knots and never had a 
hang up on shrouds or baby stays.  The only thing that we get hung up 
on occasion is the forward hatch. I have found the halyard knot to be 
much better than bowlines anduse them for the main outhaul and reefing 
line as well.  On our old Redwing 35, we had a continuous jib sheet 
with a luggage tag knot.  Both boats have separate spinnaker sheets so 
all we have to do is collect them up and tie them up on the bow pulpit.


Neil Schiller
1983 C&C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC
All covered up and tucked in before the snow flies this week.



___

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to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



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Re: Stus-List Shackle for Genoa sheets

[Pete Shelquist via CnC-List]

  
  


Matthew-  what did you use for a mast fitting at the top of your 
babystay line?


Get Outlook for iOS

  From: CnC-List  on behalf of Matthew L. 
Wolford via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, November 8, 2018 7:17 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Matthew L. Wolford
Subject: Re: Stus-List Shackle for Genoa sheets On my 34, I rarely used the 
babystay, but did so occasionally for rough conditions so I did not want to get 
rid of it.  Because it was constantly in the way, I replaced the wire stay with 
a heavy-load, low-stretch line (much easier to deal with).  It seemed to work 
just as well.  



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Re: Stus-List Baby stay upgrade

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

That was a long time ago, but here’s my best recollection:

Looking on-line, I believe we used a high-load Wichard head thimble shackle -- 
the kind with the blue plastic to hold the spliced eye.  I had the eye 
professionally spliced by Rigging Only.  As I recall, the pin was undersized 
for the mast fitting, so I added a bronze bushing to take up the space.  In 
addition, even though we used low stretch line, Rigging Only did something 
additional to pre-stretch it.  As I recall we used a standard snap shackle at 
the deck, which was probably the weak link (as was the case with the original 
wire stay).  While I was at it, I also upgraded the baby stay track on the deck 
(which was beat) to a Schaefer mainsail traveler track and car – very robust.  
Schaefer sold me some undrilled track so I could match the holes.  You can 
probably get something similar (and less expensive) from Garhauer.

Although not used very often, the system worked well.  The line was easily 
capable of handling the load, and the babystay was taut about a third of the 
way down the track.  We had very solid tension at the half-way point.

I did this upgrade before non-steel standing rigging was readily available.  My 
guess is that there are a lot more options now.

From: Pete Shelquist via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2018 11:32 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Pete Shelquist 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Shackle for Genoa sheets

Matthew-  what did you use for a mast fitting at the top of your babystay line?

Get Outlook for iOS









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Re: Stus-List Baby stay (bs) bs

[Wade Glew via CnC-List]

Hi Rob,

are you speaking specifically of C&C 34's in this comment?  My boat is a 33
MKII and I wonder if I might be able to do without my baby stay?   I am 80%
cruiser, 20% racer on Lake of the Woods in Ontario so big seas are not
something I have to deal with.  What would I sacrifice without the baby
stay?

many thanks,
Wade
Oh Boy, C&C 33 MKII
Lake of the Woods

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 7:29 AM Rob Ball via CnC-List 
wrote:

> We supplied the boats with Baby Stays, knowing that the mast could be
> tuned with a bit of bend so that it was not needed.  However, when the boat
> was brand new, on the first sail, and not tuned yet, things could go
> south.  So, we kept them on the boats.
>
> In a violent seaway they do stabilize a pumping mast . . . .
>
>
>
> Rob BallC&C 34
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Halyard Knot - was Shackle for Genoa Sheets? Halyard knot

[John Conklin via CnC-List]

Yes, I was planning on asking about the Halyard Knot as well.  I too have never 
heard of it ? This is a great Link !!
I also thought there was only 1 proper cleat Hitch as shown for the Halyard 
Cleat Hitch.  The Cleat Hitch for deck I have also never seem. Now if I can get 
the best video for the Double Braid eye Splice. I would like to give it a go.
Thanks again.

John Conklin
S/V Halcyon


From: CnC-List  on behalf of schiller via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, November 8, 2018 10:25:10 AM
To: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List
Cc: schiller
Subject: Re: Stus-List Halyard Knot - was Shackle for Genoa Sheets?

Mike,

Here is a good visual link to several useful knots.  In all my years of sailing 
(and tying loads while working in a lumber yard) I had not discovered the 
halyard knot.

https://www.animatedknots.com/indexboating.php

Neil Schiller
1983 C&C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC

On 11/8/2018 9:32 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote:
Hi Neil

Can you send a link to where I can see how to tie “Halyard Knot”?  I would like 
to use that instead of bowline on my jib halyard

Mike
Persistence
Halifax

No snow here … yet!

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of schiller via 
CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2018 10:32 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: schiller
Subject: Re: Stus-List Shackle for Genoa Sheets?

After buying a sheet and halyard kit from Cajun Ropes that came with loose 
ends, I have attached them with halyard knots and never had a hang up on 
shrouds or baby stays.  The only thing that we get hung up on occasion is the 
forward hatch.  I have found the halyard knot to be much better than bowlines 
anduse them for the main outhaul and reefing line as well.  On our old Redwing 
35, we had a continuous jib sheet with a luggage tag knot.  Both boats have 
separate spinnaker sheets so all we have to do is collect them up and tie them 
up on the bow pulpit.

Neil Schiller
1983 C&C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC
All covered up and tucked in before the snow flies this week.



___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



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Stus-List Swimming Pool Cover Pump

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

Has anyone ever used one of these to suck out that last ¼” of water from the
bilge?

I am thinking specifically of removing Mast Water from the bilge during the
winter,  Altho it might be handy  during the season. My bilge now has a rule
1500 which works fine as long as you have at least 3” of water.

 

I ordered a couple cheapies, but wondered if anyone has actually gone
through this drill and has had success.

 

Bill Coleman

C&C 39 Erie, PAanimated_favicon1

 

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Re: Stus-List Swimming Pool Cover Pump

[Richard Bush via CnC-List]

Bill, can you send a link or the name of the pump? Thanks
 
 
Richard
 s/v Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 596

Richard N. Bush
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine 
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255 
 
-Original Message-
From: Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Bill Coleman 
Sent: Thu, Nov 8, 2018 2:21 pm
Subject: Stus-List Swimming Pool Cover Pump

 #yiv3560297573 #yiv3560297573 -- _filtered #yiv3560297573 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 
4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3560297573 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 
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4 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3560297573 {font-family:Consolas;panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 
3 2 4;} #yiv3560297573 #yiv3560297573 p.yiv3560297573MsoNormal, #yiv3560297573 
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{margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} #yiv3560297573 div.yiv3560297573Section1 {} 
#yiv3560297573 Has anyone ever used one of these to suck out that last ¼”of 
water from the bilge? I am thinking specifically of removing Mast Water from 
the bilgeduring the winter,  Altho it might be handy  during the season. My 
bilge nowhas a rule 1500 which works fine as long as you have at least 3” 
ofwater.    I ordered a couple cheapies, but wondered if anyone has 
actuallygone through this drill and has had success.    Bill Coleman C&C 39 
Erie, PA   ___

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Re: Stus-List Swimming Pool Cover Pump

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I use a small wet/dry shopvac when I need to empty wet areas.

Dennis C.

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 1:21 PM Bill Coleman via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Has anyone ever used one of these to suck out that last ¼” of water from
> the bilge?
>
> I am thinking specifically of removing Mast Water from the bilge during
> the winter,  Altho it might be handy  during the season. My bilge now has a
> rule 1500 which works fine as long as you have at least 3” of water.
>
>
>
> I ordered a couple cheapies, but wondered if anyone has actually gone
> through this drill and has had success.
>
>
>
> Bill Coleman
>
> C&C 39 Erie, PA[image: animated_favicon1]
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Swimming Pool Cover Pump

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

I also use a wet-dry vac for this purpose.  I do not want to use the bilge pump 
because: a) the winter cover plugs the hole in the transom; and b) I winterized 
the pump with anti-freeze.

From: Dennis C. via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2018 2:29 PM
To: CnClist 
Cc: Dennis C. 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Swimming Pool Cover Pump

I use a small wet/dry shopvac when I need to empty wet areas. 

Dennis C.

On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 1:21 PM Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
 wrote:

  Has anyone ever used one of these to suck out that last ¼” of water from the 
bilge?

  I am thinking specifically of removing Mast Water from the bilge during the 
winter,  Altho it might be handy  during the season. My bilge now has a rule 
1500 which works fine as long as you have at least 3” of water.



  I ordered a couple cheapies, but wondered if anyone has actually gone through 
this drill and has had success.



  Bill Coleman

  C&C 39 Erie, PA



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  Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray





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Re: Stus-List Baby stay (bs) bs

[Rob Ball via CnC-List]

Wade,

Once we went to In-Line shrouds as opposed to double lowers, the baby stay was 
introduced to tension the mast forward  . . .

With experience, most boats were able to eliminate the use of the baby stay if 
you had even a small amount of pre-bend aft.  We couldn’t rely on you setting 
the mast up that way, so it was standard across the board.

The only worry without one is a reverse bend, which is counteracted by initial 
prebend  . . . And when you are in really big waves and the mast is pumping . . 
.

So, the most common practice is/was to not use it, but have it still clipped to 
the mast so when the big waves come, you are ready . . .


Cheers,   Rob Ball  C&C 34
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Re: Stus-List Swimming Pool Cover Pump

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

I just ordered these, but there are dozens to pick from.  Most are kind of big 
for pumping a few quarts of water.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Wave-Dredger-Ground-Winter/dp/B00FWOHJFS?SubscriptionId=AKIAJ2WSQIQLDL22FHMA
 

 
&tag=swimunive-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00FWOHJFS

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ENTUEGE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01?ie=UTF8
 

 &psc=1

 

neither have particularly good reviews, and look cheap, but they looks small 
enough to fit, and low enough to get most of the water.

Bill Coleman

C&C 39 Erie, PAanimated_favicon1

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Richard Bush 
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2018 2:28 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Richard Bush
Subject: Re: Stus-List Swimming Pool Cover Pump

 

Bill, can you send a link or the name of the pump? Thanks

 

 

Richard

s/v Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 596

 

Richard N. Bush

2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine 

Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 

502-584-7255

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Bill Coleman 
Sent: Thu, Nov 8, 2018 2:21 pm
Subject: Stus-List Swimming Pool Cover Pump

Has anyone ever used one of these to suck out that last ¼” of water from the 
bilge?

I am thinking specifically of removing Mast Water from the bilge during the 
winter,  Altho it might be handy  during the season. My bilge now has a rule 
1500 which works fine as long as you have at least 3” of water.

 

I ordered a couple cheapies, but wondered if anyone has actually gone through 
this drill and has had success.

 

Bill Coleman

C&C 39 Erie, PAanimated_favicon1

 

___

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Re: Stus-List Halyard Knot - was Shackle for Genoa Sheets? Halyard knot

[Neil Gallagher via CnC-List]

Splicing double-braid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UghIS9xdiDw


Neil Gallagher
Weatherly, 35-1
Glen Cove, NY


On 11/8/2018 1:44 PM, John Conklin via CnC-List wrote:


Yes, I was planning on asking about the Halyard Knot as well.  I too 
have never heard of it ? This is a great Link !!


I also thought there was only 1 proper cleat Hitch as shown for the 
Halyard Cleat Hitch.  The Cleat Hitch for deck I have also never seem. 
Now if I can get the best video for the Double Braid eye Splice. I 
would like to give it a go.


Thanks again.

John Conklin

S/V Halcyon


*From:* CnC-List  on behalf of schiller 
via CnC-List 

*Sent:* Thursday, November 8, 2018 10:25:10 AM
*To:* Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List
*Cc:* schiller
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Halyard Knot - was Shackle for Genoa Sheets?
Mike,

Here is a good visual link to several useful knots.  In all my years 
of sailing (and tying loads while working in a lumber yard) I had not 
discovered the halyard knot.


https://www.animatedknots.com/indexboating.php

Neil Schiller
1983 C&C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC

On 11/8/2018 9:32 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote:


Hi Neil

Can you send a link to where I can see how to tie “Halyard Knot”?  I 
would like to use that instead of bowline on my jib halyard


Mike

Persistence

Halifax

No snow here … yet!

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*schiller via CnC-List

*Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2018 10:32 PM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Cc:* schiller
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Shackle for Genoa Sheets?

After buying a sheet and halyard kit from Cajun Ropes that came with 
loose ends, I have attached them with halyard knots and never had a 
hang up on shrouds or baby stays. The only thing that we get hung up 
on occasion is the forward hatch.  I have found the halyard knot to 
be much better than bowlines anduse them for the main outhaul and 
reefing line as well.  On our old Redwing 35, we had a continuous jib 
sheet with a luggage tag knot.  Both boats have separate spinnaker 
sheets so all we have to do is collect them up and tie them up on the 
bow pulpit.


Neil Schiller
1983 C&C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC
All covered up and tucked in before the snow flies this week.



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Re: Stus-List Swimming Pool Cover Pump

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

You may also want to check out small fountain pumps. I bought one at Lowe’s. I 
use it to pump out a low spot on my walk way where water somehow finds its way 
into the basement. Time to dig up the concrete, but this is a good interim.

 

Gary

St. Michaels MD

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Bill Coleman via 
CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, November 8, 2018 3:09 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bill Coleman 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Swimming Pool Cover Pump

 

I just ordered these, but there are dozens to pick from.  Most are kind of big 
for pumping a few quarts of water.

 

 

 
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Wave-Dredger-Ground-Winter/dp/B00FWOHJFS?SubscriptionId=AKIAJ2WSQIQLDL22FHMA&tag=swimunive-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00FWOHJFS

 

 

 

 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ENTUEGE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

neither have particularly good reviews, and look cheap, but they looks small 
enough to fit, and low enough to get most of the water.

Bill Coleman

C&C 39 Erie, PA

 

From: CnC-List [  
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Richard Bush via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2018 2:28 PM
To:   cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Richard Bush
Subject: Re: Stus-List Swimming Pool Cover Pump

 

Bill, can you send a link or the name of the pump? Thanks

 

 

Richard

s/v Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 596

 

Richard N. Bush

2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine 

Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 

502-584-7255

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Bill Coleman via CnC-List <  
cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cnc-list <  cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Bill Coleman <  colt...@verizon.net>
Sent: Thu, Nov 8, 2018 2:21 pm
Subject: Stus-List Swimming Pool Cover Pump

Has anyone ever used one of these to suck out that last ¼” of water from the 
bilge?

I am thinking specifically of removing Mast Water from the bilge during the 
winter,  Altho it might be handy  during the season. My bilge now has a rule 
1500 which works fine as long as you have at least 3” of water.

 

I ordered a couple cheapies, but wondered if anyone has actually gone through 
this drill and has had success.

 

Bill Coleman

C&C 39 Erie, PA

 

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Re: Stus-List Halyard Knot - was Shackle for Genoa Sheets? Halyard knot

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

This topic has been discussed before.  I'm an advocate of the "double
overhand on a itself" for halyard shackles.  Both the halyard knot and the
double overhand are likely to get jammed and you will likely find it
necessary to cut the knot if removal becomes necessary.  The reason I
advocate for a double overhand is that the tail comes out in line with the
loaded side as apposed to the halyard knot where the tail comes out
perpendicular.  This isn't too big of a deal but unless you work the
halyard knot or cut the tail short there is a chance of the tail fouling.
Knots are IMO superior to an eye splice for halyard attachment since the
line doesn't get fat and potentially jam in the sheave box.  I believe less
rope is lost cutting the knot vs cutting the eye should replacement be
needed.  Ultimately less cost and nearly the same performance.  A knot may
cause a very slightly reduced hoist...if space is limited at the top.

They call it a poachers knot.
https://www.animatedknots.com/poachers/index.php

Double Overhand on Itself. DOI
http://www.caves.org/section/vertical/nh/46/doitie.html

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Thu, Nov 8, 2018, 1:45 PM John Conklin via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:

> Yes, I was planning on asking about the Halyard Knot as well.  I too have
> never heard of it ? This is a great Link !!
>
> I also thought there was only 1 proper cleat Hitch as shown for the
> Halyard Cleat Hitch.  The Cleat Hitch for deck I have also never seem. Now
> if I can get the best video for the Double Braid eye Splice. I would like
> to give it a go.
>
> Thanks again.
>
>
>
> John Conklin
>
> S/V Halcyon
>
>
> --
> *From:* CnC-List  on behalf of schiller
> via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 8, 2018 10:25:10 AM
> *To:* Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List
> *Cc:* schiller
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Halyard Knot - was Shackle for Genoa Sheets?
>
> Mike,
>
> Here is a good visual link to several useful knots.  In all my years of
> sailing (and tying loads while working in a lumber yard) I had not
> discovered the halyard knot.
>
> https://www.animatedknots.com/indexboating.php
> 
>
> Neil Schiller
> 1983 C&C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
> Whitehall, Michigan
> WLYC
>
> On 11/8/2018 9:32 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote:
>
> Hi Neil
>
>
>
> Can you send a link to where I can see how to tie “Halyard Knot”?  I would
> like to use that instead of bowline on my jib halyard
>
>
>
> Mike
>
> Persistence
>
> Halifax
>
>
>
> No snow here … yet!
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *schiller via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2018 10:32 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* schiller
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Shackle for Genoa Sheets?
>
>
>
> After buying a sheet and halyard kit from Cajun Ropes that came with loose
> ends, I have attached them with halyard knots and never had a hang up on
> shrouds or baby stays.  The only thing that we get hung up on occasion is
> the forward hatch.  I have found the halyard knot to be much better than
> bowlines anduse them for the main outhaul and reefing line as well.  On our
> old Redwing 35, we had a continuous jib sheet with a luggage tag knot.
> Both boats have separate spinnaker sheets so all we have to do is collect
> them up and tie them up on the bow pulpit.
>
> Neil Schiller
> 1983 C&C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
> Whitehall, Michigan
> WLYC
> All covered up and tucked in before the snow flies this week.
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Rejected messages

[Jim Watts via CnC-List]

It would be easy enough to make a rule that any messages that contain "List
Digest" in the subject line automatically go into the circular file.

Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC


On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 at 06:45, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List 
wrote:

> How about rejecting messages that don't have, or don't change, the subject
> line?
>
> Alan Bergen
> 35 Mk III Thirsty
> Rose City YC
> Portland, OR
>
>
> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.paypal.me_stumurray&d=DwICAg&c=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI&r=9w3G7Cf8YfQnrjmtuNxwDJYr3JMv9f1pAfgAJ9xXYQQ&m=Nui5x3foUyvy1EW9tMgLGXs_PyxMrcAhd6Dk6dDekxA&s=EfujRZteQppqhg8olvk0opLHV4kL9J4Nt46B8dCrhEU&e=
>>
>>
>>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Baby stay

[Bailey White via CnC-List]

My experience in the 1990s when I first started racing keelboats in San
Francisco Bay was that everyone took off their baby stays for the reasons
people have already shared on this list.  I never saw a problem on Santa
Cruz, Olson, boats.

My 36-1 has the baby stay removed and has been fine, though sailing on Lake
Lanier in Georgia is not a hard core test of boat slamming waves.

Thank you to everyone who gave me great info on the rudder squeak. I'm
looking forward to visiting the boat this weekend to investigate exactly
what it has based on your recommendations.

Bailey
1979 C&C 36
Lake Lanier, GA
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Stus-List Minor leak in CB trunk/keel

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

My 1995 36XL/kcb was on the hard for the past several months for bottom work.


She had many layers of bottom paint sanded off to the gelcoat, barrier coats 
(x2) applied and then spray painted with 
Black Widow bottom paint which was then burnished/fine sanded to a very smooth 
finish.


Before she was splashed, she was in the travel lift for several days (over a 
weekend) for doing the same to the centerboard prior to splashing. 


While she was hanging from the lift, I noticed a small (~ 70 drops/minute) leak 
from the aft portion of the centerboard trunk/keel at the hull. 


According to the yard personnel who painted her, there was no leaking while she 
was on the hard with the centerboard trunk/keel supported by a 
an 8x8 board with the stands also in place. Further, I had never noticed any 
leak on any previous, yearly bottom painting although it might have gone 
unnoticed  for the few minutes it was suspended in the lift before splashing or 
replacing the centerboard pennant, etc. 


This leak is very likely why my bilge always needs pumped when I return to the 
boat from an absence--this leak may have been there for years but never noticed 
from the outside. Before I saw this, I figured that the bilge was being filled 
from rain water down the mast, etc.  


Following the KISS principle, I figure that at a minimum the keel/cb trunk 
bolts need tightened to specifications--particularly since to my knowledge 
these bolts have never been tightened since she left the factory.


I realize that this should be done on the hard and with the leak pretty minor I 
am not concerned about fixing it immediately. OTOH, I do want to at least bring 
the bolts to their specifications regarding torque. Now its time for my 
questions for this list:


1. I used a tape measure and the keel/cb bolts look to be 1" in diameter and 
the nuts require a 1.5" socket. Per the keel bolt specs from the photo album, 
this requires 350 ft lbs of torque. The torque wrenches I have located seem to 
either go to 150 ft-lbs or 250 ft-lbs so neither works out of the box. What 
little I remember of freshman physics says I need an extension on the 250 
ft-lbs wrench to meet the 350 ft-lbs specification. Depending on the length of 
the extension, I would need to 're-calibrate' the torque wrench values to 
include the additional length. For instance, if I lengthened the wrench by 
twice is nominal length, I should be able to reach 500 ft-lbs when the wrench 
gauge reads 250 ft-lbs, etc. Is this correct?


2. Most of the torque wrenches for 250 ft-lbs I have seen have a 1/2" drive. My 
thought is to use a 1.5" socket with a 1/2" drive to tighten the bolts. My 
concern is whether using a 1/2" drive on a 1.5" nut can get to 250 ft-lbs 
without destroying the wrench or the socket. Bigger torque wrenches come with 
3/4" drives and a much higher price. Should I be concerned? Since I will 
probably have to buy the wrench etc.  (~ $200), I don't want to destroy it by 
trying to tighten something that requires a larger wrench. (local wrench 
rentals top out at 150 ft-lbs although the yard may have a larger one 
available--have not checked yet.).


3. I will need to remove all the floorboards for this job to reach all the 
bolts--I am not sure any are under the mast. Either way, I need some pointers 
on how to proceed. Once she is on the hard and appropriately blocked so that 
the cb trunk/keel is supported what is the recommended procedure?


a. Should I loosen all the bolts first?

b. Should I apply any lubricants to the bolts?

c. Which bolts should be tightened first--center then forward, then aft, 
then forward, then aft, etc. or furtherest aft then furtherest forward, then 
aft then forward, etc.

d. Should I do this incrementally in torque--say go to 250 with all, then 
move to 300, then go to 350?



My hope is that this tightening will eliminate the small leak. However, I want 
to be sure to do it correctly so I don't make it worse! 


Dropping the keel/centerboard trunk would be a very big dollar item which I 
hope to avoid!


Thanks,


Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
1995 C&C XL/kcb
 








cenel...@aol.com

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Re: Stus-List Baby stay

[John and Maryann Read via CnC-List]

I find the baby stay is an essential part for controlling mast pumping and 
flattening the mainsail especially when racing.  I was amazed at how much the 
mast pumped without the baby stay when going to windward in 15 knots apparent 
and one to two foot seas.  Just lie on the deck and look up the mast and you 
can easily see how much it moves with corresponding impact on the main sail 
shape.  The baby stay eliminates all that movement so the main sail maintains 
its shape and flattens it as well.  We found it helped boat speed.  Yes it 
requires crew to get the genoa past it when tacking and one more thing to keep 
track of but isn’t sailing and racing a continuous process of adjustments?

 

2 cents American

 

 

John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C&C 34

Noank, CT

 

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Re: Stus-List Minor leak in CB trunk/keel

[schiller via CnC-List]

Charlie,

1.  Your torque wrench should be reading torque at the head.  For 250 
foot pounds with a 2.5 ft wrench you would need to apply 100 pounds of 
force, 200 pounds of force would achieve 500 foot pounds but the torque 
wrench would have already clicked or maxed out on the scale.


2.  Check with the yard.  I would not recommend overloading a torque 
wrench by 50%.


3a.  Yes, loosen the nuts prior to re-torquing.
3b.  The values listed are for "clean and dry threads".  If you 
lubricate them, reduce the torque by 10%.

3c.  If you are on the hard, I am not sure that it matters.
3d.  Yes.  Your progression is good.

I created the table on the list from a document that I had from the list 
many, many, many years ago.  We had a fairly long discussion a while 
back on the proper torque and I went back and reviewed the numbers.  
Based on 316/18-8 stainless numbers for a 1" diameter coarse thread 
bolt, 350 foot pounds will leave an 11% margin on yield strength on a 
"clean and dry" thread.  Reducing the torque to 250 foot pounds will 
leave a 9% margin on yield strength on a lubricated bolt.


This has never been an exact science and I have under torqued and over 
torqued many bolts in my career with no detrimental effects. I have also 
torqued bolts to the specified limit and had bolt failures (it is 
interesting to sit in a vibration control room and listen to screw heads 
bouncing off the window).  I guess my point is that if it doesn't feel 
right at 340 foot pounds, don't try for the last 10.


Neil Schiller
1983 C&C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC

1. I used a tape measure and the keel/cb bolts look to be 1" in diameter 
and the nuts require a 1.5" socket. Per the keel bolt specs from the 
photo album, this requires 350 ft lbs of torque. The torque wrenches I 
have located seem to either go to 150 ft-lbs or 250 ft-lbs so neither 
works out of the box. What little I remember of freshman physics says I 
need an extension on the 250 ft-lbs wrench to meet the 350 ft-lbs 
specification. Depending on the length of the extension, I would need to 
're-calibrate' the torque wrench values to include the additional 
length. For instance, if I lengthened the wrench by twice is nominal 
length, I should be able to reach 500 ft-lbs when the wrench gauge reads 
250 ft-lbs, etc. Is this correct?


2. Most of the torque wrenches for 250 ft-lbs I have seen have a 1/2" 
drive. My thought is to use a 1.5" socket with a 1/2" drive to tighten 
the bolts. My concern is whether using a 1/2" drive on a 1.5" nut can 
get to 250 ft-lbs without destroying the wrench or the socket. Bigger 
torque wrenches come with 3/4" drives and a much higher price. Should I 
be concerned? Since I will probably have to buy the wrench etc.  (~ 
$200), I don't want to destroy it by trying to tighten something that 
requires a larger wrench. (local wrench rentals top out at 150 ft-lbs 
although the yard may have a larger one available--have not checked yet.).


3. I will need to remove all the floorboards for this job to reach all 
the bolts--I am not sure any are under the mast. Either way, I need some 
pointers on how to proceed. Once she is on the hard and appropriately 
blocked so that the cb trunk/keel is supported what is the recommended 
procedure?


    a. Should I loosen all the bolts first?
    b. Should I apply any lubricants to the bolts?
    c. Which bolts should be tightened first--center then forward, then 
aft, then forward, then aft, etc. or furtherest aft then furtherest 
forward, then aft then          forward, etc.
    d. Should I do this incrementally in torque--say go to 250 with 
all, then move to 300, then go to 350?


My hope is that this tightening will eliminate the small leak. However, 
I want to be sure to do it correctly so I don't make it worse!


Dropping the keel/centerboard trunk would be a very big dollar item 
which I hope to avoid!


Thanks,

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
1995 C&C XL/kcb





cenel...@aol.com


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Re: Stus-List Minor leak in CB trunk/keel

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Here's my video
https://youtu.be/n6B0IPKQERc

See responses below

> 1. I used a tape measure and the keel/cb bolts look to be 1" in diameter
> and the nuts require a 1.5" socket. Per the keel bolt specs from the photo
> album, this requires 350 ft lbs of torque. The torque wrenches I have
> located seem to either go to 150 ft-lbs or 250 ft-lbs so neither works out
> of the box. What little I remember of freshman physics says I need an
> extension on the 250 ft-lbs wrench to meet the 350 ft-lbs specification.
> Depending on the length of the extension, I would need to 're-calibrate'
> the torque wrench values to include the additional length. For instance, if
> I lengthened the wrench by twice is nominal length, I should be able to
> reach 500 ft-lbs when the wrench gauge reads 250 ft-lbs, etc. Is this
> correct?
>

Use my advice is to use the specs from the description in my video.  Use a
torque multiplier... Don't monkey around with calibration of the torque
wrench or extensions.

>
> 2. Most of the torque wrenches for 250 ft-lbs I have seen have a 1/2"
> drive. My thought is to use a 1.5" socket with a 1/2" drive to tighten the
> bolts. My concern is whether using a 1/2" drive on a 1.5" nut can get to
> 250 ft-lbs without destroying the wrench or the socket. Bigger torque
> wrenches come with 3/4" drives and a much higher price. Should I be
> concerned? Since I will probably have to buy the wrench etc.  (~ $200), I
> don't want to destroy it by trying to tighten something that requires a
> larger wrench. (local wrench rentals top out at 150 ft-lbs although the
> yard may have a larger one available--have not checked yet.).
>

See above.  You'll need a 250 ft-lbs wrench and a 3:1 multiplier

>
> 3. I will need to remove all the floorboards for this job to reach all the
> bolts--I am not sure any are under the mast. Either way, I need some
> pointers on how to proceed. Once she is on the hard and appropriately
> blocked so that the cb trunk/keel is supported what is the recommended
> procedure?
>
> a. Should I loosen all the bolts first?
>
One at a time, loosen, clean, tef-gel

b. Should I apply any lubricants to the bolts?
>
Tef-gel won't wash off - ever

c. Which bolts should be tightened first--center then forward, then
> aft, then forward, then aft, etc. or furtherest aft then furtherest
> forward, then aft thenforward, etc.
>
I don't think it matters... But I would start with the largest ones first
so as to not inadvertently over load a small bolt... Or have a small bolt
loosen as you move to the larger one.

d. Should I do this incrementally in torque--say go to 250 with all,
> then move to 300, then go to 350?
>
I went incrementally on each bolt and the went back and checked then after
moving thru all of them.

>
You'll probably find a bolt or two under the mast.  You'll have to have the
mast lifted or removed in order to get them since I'm pretty sure a crows
foot won't fit - if one even exists... But you could try.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
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Re: Stus-List Baby stay

[schiller via CnC-List]

John,

I agree.  I sited up the mast on Glenn Gambel's C&C 36 during the Queens 
cup race and notice how much the mast was pumping.  I tightened the baby 
stay as much as I could without using a winch and it quieted down 
significantly.


I was not very familiar with a baby stay with our Redwing 35.  It had 
dual lowers and a tree trunk mast.


Our C&C 35-3 has a baby stay without a track and car.  It is one of the 
things that I have contemplated adding.  I have never felt that the mast 
was pumping an it.  Having been dis-masted, some of the people that I 
talked with during repair discussion said that they have dealt with mast 
pumping failures (not on C&C's).


Neil Schiller
1983 C&C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC

On 11/8/2018 9:09 PM, John and Maryann Read via CnC-List wrote:


I find the baby stay is an essential part for controlling mast pumping 
and flattening the mainsail especially when racing.  I was amazed at 
how much the mast pumped without the baby stay when going to windward 
in 15 knots apparent and one to two foot seas.  Just lie on the deck 
and look up the mast and you can easily see how much it moves with 
corresponding impact on the main sail shape.  The baby stay eliminates 
all that movement so the main sail maintains its shape and flattens it 
as well.  We found it helped boat speed.  Yes it requires crew to get 
the genoa past it when tacking and one more thing to keep track of but 
isn’t sailing and racing a continuous process of adjustments?


2 cents American

John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C&C 34

Noank, CT



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Re: Stus-List Baby stay

[ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List]

My boat came with a baby stay on a Schaeffer track. I replaced the track
with a Harken high profile track and a Harken traveler car. I can snug it
by hand, but I can also lead it to a spinnaker halyard winch through a
Lewmar clutch. In light air, I release the clutch, and push the BS back to
the mast. when racing in heavy air, and on the ocean, I tension the BS. It
prevents mast pumping, and it helps to flatten the main in heavy iar.

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR


On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 6:47 PM, schiller via CnC-List  wrote:

> John,
>
> I agree.  I sited up the mast on Glenn Gambel's C&C 36 during the Queens
> cup race and notice how much the mast was pumping.  I tightened the baby
> stay as much as I could without using a winch and it quieted down
> significantly.
>
> I was not very familiar with a baby stay with our Redwing 35.  It had dual
> lowers and a tree trunk mast.
>
> Our C&C 35-3 has a baby stay without a track and car.  It is one of the
> things that I have contemplated adding.  I have never felt that the mast
> was pumping an it.  Having been dis-masted, some of the people that I
> talked with during repair discussion said that they have dealt with mast
> pumping failures (not on C&C's).
>
> Neil Schiller
> 1983 C&C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
> Whitehall, Michigan
> WLYC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Shackle for Genoa sheets

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I would use this.
http://www.apsltd.com/t-ball-bail-5-32.html

Choose the right size for your rope selection.  I would choose something
like 5/32 or 3/16 amsteel.
http://www.apsltd.com/hardware/wire-and-wire-fittings/t-ball-fittings-and-plates-j-hooks.html

Use a locked brummel splice and luggage tag it on to the fitting.  A locked
brumell at the other end should work well too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theriggingco.com/2014/08/01/not-all-t-terminals-are-created-equal/amp/

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD


On Thu, Nov 8, 2018, 11:33 AM Pete Shelquist via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:

> Matthew-  what did you use for a mast fitting at the top of your babystay
> line?
>
> Get Outlook for iOS 
> --
> *From:* CnC-List  on behalf of Matthew L.
> Wolford via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 8, 2018 7:17 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Matthew L. Wolford
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Shackle for Genoa sheets
>
> On my 34, I rarely used the babystay, but did so occasionally for rough
> conditions so I did not want to get rid of it.  Because it was constantly
> in the way, I replaced the wire stay with a heavy-load, low-stretch line
> (much easier to deal with).  It seemed to work just as well.
>
>
>
>
>
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>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Stus-List Eye Splice a- was Halyard Knot - was Shackle for Genoa Sheets?

[Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List]

I did my sheets, even though hot hay had some use  but I think brand new lines 
are probably essential.  I used one of Brian Toss’ wands...it really made it 
simple, as did his related video... 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAbM539i4biXLeVK7Teo2fO0spp15Zo-R

Tom Buscaglia
S/V Alera 
1990 C&C 37+/40
Vashon WA
P 206.463.9200
C 305.409.3660


On Nov 8, 2018, at 6:39 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:

>> I also thought there was only 1 proper cleat Hitch as shown for the
>> Halyard Cleat Hitch.  The Cleat Hitch for deck I have also never seem. Now
>> if I can get the best video for the Double Braid eye Splice. I would like
>> to give it a go.
>> 
>> Thanks again.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> John Conklin
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