Stus-List Question on best fuel filter setup

[Damian Greene via CnC-List]

I have some questions for your collective wisdom: what is the best fuel filter setup?First of all, I have to admit I just bought a Sabre 38 (1986). We are en route home from Essex CT to Bass Harbor ME. We were going through fairly rough seas yesterday entering Buzzards Bay and the engine died - backed off on revs over a minute or so, then stopped. Restart would not go to high revs,  and died. I figured it was the fuel filter, but we took a TowBoat US tow into New Bedford rather than mess around. I changed the filter and all seems fine.The filter is a Racor 2010. Engine is a Westerbeke 33. Diesel tank was half full.It turns out the PO had installed a 2 micron primary (there is no secondary). It looked fine - so no major crud. I have a 10 micron installed now, as I had a couple of these as spares. The local yard recommend 30  micron.I could not figure out how to bleed the air, so I filled the housing to the top with diesel, and poured more in the top before inserting and tightening the top screw. I would not fancy doing that in rough seas.So questions:1) What micron rating filter?2) Are there better new designs? I see Racor have spin-off models. Are these easier to change and bleed on the fly?3) Should I have primary and secondary filters?4) How best to bleed the air?5) The Westerbeke W33 manual says it's self bleeding and essentially not to mess with the pump. What do you know of this?Thanks,Damian Damian Greene1982 C&C 34 Ghost (for sale)1986 Sabre 38 Serenity (new name TBD)Bass Harbor ME___

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Re: Stus-List Question on best fuel filter setup

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

Hi Damian!

Congrats on the new boat!!   I don't have an answer for you but very 
interested in the conversation!!


You should think about joining the Sabre list serve too.  Its pretty 
active.  Not as much as this but, still active.  I joined them during my 
boat shopping because The Sabre 38MKII was on my short list.  I just 
stayed on because there is some great info and conversations over 
there!  they're on a yahoo group


Danny



On 6/30/2017 7:53 AM, Damian Greene via CnC-List wrote:
I have some questions for your collective wisdom: what is the best 
fuel filter setup?


First of all, I have to admit I just bought a Sabre 38 (1986). We are 
en route home from Essex CT to Bass Harbor ME. We were going through 
fairly rough seas yesterday entering Buzzards Bay and the engine died 
- backed off on revs over a minute or so, then stopped. Restart would 
not go to high revs,  and died. I figured it was the fuel filter, but 
we took a TowBoat US tow into New Bedford rather than mess around. I 
changed the filter and all seems fine.


The filter is a Racor 2010. Engine is a Westerbeke 33. Diesel tank was 
half full.


It turns out the PO had installed a 2 micron primary (there is no 
secondary). It looked fine - so no major crud. I have a 10 micron 
installed now, as I had a couple of these as spares. The local yard 
recommend 30  micron.


I could not figure out how to bleed the air, so I filled the housing 
to the top with diesel, and poured more in the top before inserting 
and tightening the top screw. I would not fancy doing that in rough seas.


So questions:

1) What micron rating filter?

2) Are there better new designs? I see Racor have spin-off models. Are 
these easier to change and bleed on the fly?


3) Should I have primary and secondary filters?

4) How best to bleed the air?

5) The Westerbeke W33 manual says it's self bleeding and essentially 
not to mess with the pump. What do you know of this?


Thanks,

Damian

Damian Greene
1982 C&C 34 Ghost (for sale)
1986 Sabre 38 Serenity (new name TBD)
Bass Harbor ME



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This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Question on best fuel filter setup

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

Per instruction from the best diesel mechanics I know, I run a 30 micron
filter in my Racor and a 5 or 10 in my engine filter. I don't wonder that
your 2 micron filter clogged as soon as your roiled the fuel in your tank.
I'm surprised it took that long to stop the engine.
A useful addition to ease changing filters is a small electric fuel pump
between the tank and the Racor, but I keep a quart or two of diesel in a
bottle and top up the filter exactly as you did. Now that I've cleaned my
tank, I only change filters once a season so it's hard to justify
installing the pump.
I do make sure to keep my tank full as much as possible to avoid
condensation forming inside it.

Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 8:48 AM, Danny Haughey via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Damian!
>
> Congrats on the new boat!!   I don't have an answer for you but very
> interested in the conversation!!
>
> You should think about joining the Sabre list serve too.  Its pretty
> active.  Not as much as this but, still active.  I joined them during my
> boat shopping because The Sabre 38MKII was on my short list.  I just stayed
> on because there is some great info and conversations over there!  they're
> on a yahoo group
>
> Danny
>
>
>
> On 6/30/2017 7:53 AM, Damian Greene via CnC-List wrote:
>
> I have some questions for your collective wisdom: what is the best fuel
> filter setup?
>
> First of all, I have to admit I just bought a Sabre 38 (1986). We are en
> route home from Essex CT to Bass Harbor ME. We were going through fairly
> rough seas yesterday entering Buzzards Bay and the engine died - backed off
> on revs over a minute or so, then stopped. Restart would not go to high
> revs,  and died. I figured it was the fuel filter, but we took a TowBoat US
> tow into New Bedford rather than mess around. I changed the filter and all
> seems fine.
>
> The filter is a Racor 2010. Engine is a Westerbeke 33. Diesel tank was
> half full.
>
> It turns out the PO had installed a 2 micron primary (there is no
> secondary). It looked fine - so no major crud. I have a 10 micron installed
> now, as I had a couple of these as spares. The local yard recommend 30
>  micron.
>
> I could not figure out how to bleed the air, so I filled the housing to
> the top with diesel, and poured more in the top before inserting and
> tightening the top screw. I would not fancy doing that in rough seas.
>
> So questions:
>
> 1) What micron rating filter?
>
> 2) Are there better new designs? I see Racor have spin-off models. Are
> these easier to change and bleed on the fly?
>
> 3) Should I have primary and secondary filters?
>
> 4) How best to bleed the air?
>
> 5) The Westerbeke W33 manual says it's self bleeding and essentially not
> to mess with the pump. What do you know of this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Damian
>
> Damian Greene
> 1982 C&C 34 Ghost (for sale)
> 1986 Sabre 38 Serenity (new name TBD)
> Bass Harbor ME
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>


-- 
Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett Ave
Newport, RI
USA 02840
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
phone  +401 965 5260
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Question on best fuel filter setup

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Andy,

If you calculate how much water can condense in the fuel tank you would find 
that the amount is miniscule. The main source of water in the fuel tank is the 
crumbled O ring at the fuel cap.

If you keep a full tank on a hot day, the fuel may expand and leak through the 
vent. Many marinas forbid filling up tanks to the top, especially before the 
winter storage (and this is when most people think that having a full tank is 
beneficial).

Marek
1994 C270 “Legato”
Ottawa, ON

From: Andrew Burton via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2017 10:04
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Andrew Burton
Subject: Re: Stus-List Question on best fuel filter setup

Per instruction from the best diesel mechanics I know, I run a 30 micron filter 
in my Racor and a 5 or 10 in my engine filter. I don't wonder that your 2 
micron filter clogged as soon as your roiled the fuel in your tank. I'm 
surprised it took that long to stop the engine.
A useful addition to ease changing filters is a small electric fuel pump 
between the tank and the Racor, but I keep a quart or two of diesel in a bottle 
and top up the filter exactly as you did. Now that I've cleaned my tank, I only 
change filters once a season so it's hard to justify installing the pump.
I do make sure to keep my tank full as much as possible to avoid condensation 
forming inside it.

Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Question on best fuel filter setup

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I haven't actually re-checked my engine manual but IIRC the stock engine
filter (primary? ) for a Yanmar 3HM35F is 2 micron.  The boat came with a
Racor 200FG installed between the tank and the engine which I believe makes
this the (secondary?).  Recent discussions on this list have led me to
reconsider running a 2 micron in the Racor but aside from needing to
occasionally vent air from the Racor I have had no other adverse effects
and haven't changed either of the filters in about 4 years.

After closing on the boat I chased what I thought was an air leak in the
fuel system for months.  I got pretty good at venting the system and
learned what worked and what didn't.  What was needed and what wasn't.  The
mechanic advised me to avoid operating the vent screw on the filter housing
since he had seen his share of stripped vent screws.  Heeding his advice, I
resorted to primarily venting from the vent port on the outlet of the Racor
and the vent screw built into the banjo fitting on the high pressure fuel
pump.  I soon learned that the vent screw on the HP pump was prone to
stripping too!  Ugh!  In my time of need I simply JB Welded the screw in
place.  Now I was forced to vent from nothing but the outlet of the racor.
I noticed quite quickly that the vent port was poorly located and provided
ineffective removal of the air since it wasn't close enough to the high
point.  The only other places to vent wer actually loosening banjo fittings
along the fuel circuit but unfortunately they use copper gaskets which are
really designed to be a one time use item otherwise they leak.  Another
problem that I encountered was that bleeding the engine required a
considerable amount of fuel - upwards of a gallon to flush out all the
air.  None of the bleed screws or banjo fittings were designed to catch the
spilt fuel.  Finally I installed a bleed system which you can see in my
video.  Maybe I'm just lucky but since having installed this system I have
had the engine shut down due to air but have NEVER had to vent from
anywhere except through this system.  If/when I change the engine filter I
will simply keep the bowl slightly loose and then prime until fuel leaks
out of the threads.

https://youtu.be/H-GI38vE4hQ?t=2m13s

Now to answer your questions:
1) What micron rating filter?
  - I'd refer you to the owners manual.  The majority of bearing were comes
from particals smaller than 5 microns and those parts don't have exacting
tolerances like the HP pump and Injectors.  As stated above, IIRC the
yanmar primary filter part is 2 micron.

2) Are there better new designs? I see Racor have spin-off models. Are
these easier to change and bleed on the fly?
  - I don't know any of the marketing reasons but I like the Racor 200 or
500 series that have a clear bowl.  This allows tou to see if
air/water/dirt is accumulating.

3) Should I have primary and secondary filters?
  - IMO yes.  If you have room you can go one step further and have a
standby filter in parallel.  If it looks like a clogged filter is the
problem for your shutdown then you simply shift filters.  You can change
the dirty one later, at the dock, in calw seas.

4) How best to bleed the air?
  - Do what you can to fill the filter media and bowl most of the way even
if that is just simply pouring fuel in the bowl and then attaching the
bowl.

5) The Westerbeke W33 manual says it's self bleeding and essentially not to
mess with the pump. What do you know of this?
  - It would seem that while I have manufacturers recommended vent points,
they are not needed.  In my case, more vents and better venting just means
less cranking.  To that end, if you simply placed a dry filter in the
housing and hoped that the engine would self vent you'd probably find
yourself cranking for a considerable amount of time.  Besides just because
the engine is self venting doesn't mean that the filter is.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD


On Jun 30, 2017 7:54 AM, "Damian Greene via CnC-List" 
wrote:

I have some questions for your collective wisdom: what is the best fuel
filter setup?

First of all, I have to admit I just bought a Sabre 38 (1986). We are en
route home from Essex CT to Bass Harbor ME. We were going through fairly
rough seas yesterday entering Buzzards Bay and the engine died - backed off
on revs over a minute or so, then stopped. Restart would not go to high
revs,  and died. I figured it was the fuel filter, but we took a TowBoat US
tow into New Bedford rather than mess around. I changed the filter and all
seems fine.

The filter is a Racor 2010. Engine is a Westerbeke 33. Diesel tank was half
full.

It turns out the PO had installed a 2 micron primary (there is no
secondary). It looked fine - so no major crud. I have a 10 micron installed
now, as I had a couple of these as spares. The local yard recommend 30
 micron.

I could not figure out how to bleed the air, so I filled the housing to the
top with diesel, and poured more in the top before inserting and ti

Re: Stus-List Question on best fuel filter setup

[PETER OCAMPO via CnC-List]

Hi Damian

I have the w33 and this just happens to me on a sail to jewel island after 
delivery of 35 hours no issues. But let my fuel drop to 1/3 and it clogged 
with. A 2 micron. 

I just filled the racor w fuel and it self primed no issues getting back to 
mooring but I am pulling he tank and cleaning it  saw sludge in bottom of tank 
when I pulled the sending unit   

Peter

Goonie island  C&c 40 1983 aft 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 30, 2017, at 11:03 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I haven't actually re-checked my engine manual but IIRC the stock engine 
> filter (primary? ) for a Yanmar 3HM35F is 2 micron.  The boat came with a 
> Racor 200FG installed between the tank and the engine which I believe makes 
> this the (secondary?).  Recent discussions on this list have led me to 
> reconsider running a 2 micron in the Racor but aside from needing to 
> occasionally vent air from the Racor I have had no other adverse effects and 
> haven't changed either of the filters in about 4 years.
> 
> After closing on the boat I chased what I thought was an air leak in the fuel 
> system for months.  I got pretty good at venting the system and learned what 
> worked and what didn't.  What was needed and what wasn't.  The mechanic 
> advised me to avoid operating the vent screw on the filter housing since he 
> had seen his share of stripped vent screws.  Heeding his advice, I resorted 
> to primarily venting from the vent port on the outlet of the Racor and the 
> vent screw built into the banjo fitting on the high pressure fuel pump.  I 
> soon learned that the vent screw on the HP pump was prone to stripping too!  
> Ugh!  In my time of need I simply JB Welded the screw in place.  Now I was 
> forced to vent from nothing but the outlet of the racor.  I noticed quite 
> quickly that the vent port was poorly located and provided ineffective 
> removal of the air since it wasn't close enough to the high point.  The only 
> other places to vent wer actually loosening banjo fittings along the fuel 
> circuit but unfortunately they use copper gaskets which are really designed 
> to be a one time use item otherwise they leak.  Another problem that I 
> encountered was that bleeding the engine required a considerable amount of 
> fuel - upwards of a gallon to flush out all the air.  None of the bleed 
> screws or banjo fittings were designed to catch the spilt fuel.  Finally I 
> installed a bleed system which you can see in my video.  Maybe I'm just lucky 
> but since having installed this system I have had the engine shut down due to 
> air but have NEVER had to vent from anywhere except through this system.  
> If/when I change the engine filter I will simply keep the bowl slightly loose 
> and then prime until fuel leaks out of the threads.
> 
> https://youtu.be/H-GI38vE4hQ?t=2m13s
> 
> Now to answer your questions:
> 1) What micron rating filter?
>   - I'd refer you to the owners manual.  The majority of bearing were comes 
> from particals smaller than 5 microns and those parts don't have exacting 
> tolerances like the HP pump and Injectors.  As stated above, IIRC the yanmar 
> primary filter part is 2 micron.
>  
> 2) Are there better new designs? I see Racor have spin-off models. Are these 
> easier to change and bleed on the fly?
>   - I don't know any of the marketing reasons but I like the Racor 200 or 500 
> series that have a clear bowl.  This allows tou to see if air/water/dirt is 
> accumulating.
> 
> 3) Should I have primary and secondary filters?
>   - IMO yes.  If you have room you can go one step further and have a standby 
> filter in parallel.  If it looks like a clogged filter is the problem for 
> your shutdown then you simply shift filters.  You can change the dirty one 
> later, at the dock, in calw seas.
> 
> 4) How best to bleed the air?
>   - Do what you can to fill the filter media and bowl most of the way even if 
> that is just simply pouring fuel in the bowl and then attaching the bowl. 
> 
> 5) The Westerbeke W33 manual says it's self bleeding and essentially not to 
> mess with the pump. What do you know of this?
>   - It would seem that while I have manufacturers recommended vent points, 
> they are not needed.  In my case, more vents and better venting just means 
> less cranking.  To that end, if you simply placed a dry filter in the housing 
> and hoped that the engine would self vent you'd probably find yourself 
> cranking for a considerable amount of time.  Besides just because the engine 
> is self venting doesn't mean that the filter is.
> 
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> 
> 
> On Jun 30, 2017 7:54 AM, "Damian Greene via CnC-List"  
> wrote:
> I have some questions for your collective wisdom: what is the best fuel 
> filter setup?
> 
> First of all, I have to admit I just bought a Sabre 38 (1986). We are en 
> route home from Essex CT to Bass Harbor ME. We were going through fairly 
> rough seas yesterday entering Buzzards Bay

Re: Stus-List engine shut-off t-handle repair or replacement

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Dave,

Thanks for the suggestion. I did look at Lee Valley, but I did not find what 
you did. I bought the handle and installed. The total cost $2.50 (CAD). 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8w4rk7hjs29j66r/20170628_202718.jpg?dl=0

Thanks

Marek

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dave S via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 06:47
To: C&c Stus List
Cc: Dave S
Subject: Re: Stus-List engine shut-off t-handle repair or replacement

Marek - 4 thoughts:


repair the handle with epoxy, with a heavily waxed 1/4-20 bolt or threaded rod 
inserted.   do it on your workbench at home.  Once it kicks, clamp the bolt in 
a vise, if necessary gently it heat with a torch, and remove the handle.
or
Drill and tap something cool to make a new handle.
or
Check busybee, lee valley or McMaster Carr for a replacement handle.  its a 
common thread size.


http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=61652&cat=1,43455,61994&ap=1
or
Drill and tap (if necessary)  a line terminal ball and secure with a nut, or 
devise a lanyard.

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/sea-sure--line-stopper-balls--P002_065_006_026?recordNum=12


Howzat?


Dave



-- Forwarded message --
From: Josh Muckley mailto:muckl...@gmail.com>>
To: "C&C List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 21:02:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Stus-List engine shut-off t-handle repair or replacement
To prevent epoxy from adhering to anything, you can use fiberglass mold 
release.  You can also use a fiberglass or automotive paste wax.  Or don't and 
just have the handle permanently attached.  Maybe some JB Weld?  JB Weld Putty?

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Jun 19, 2017 7:42 PM, "Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List" 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Hello,

My t-handle on the engine shut-off has some broken threads. When I pulled the 
handle to turn off the engine, it stayed in my hand. It is a simple 
replacement, but I could not find a source anywhere in Canada. I found it on 
SBO and Catalina Direct, but with shipping, taxes, and after the exchange it 
comes to about $60.

I considered a proper thread insert, but a kit with a dozen inserts costs about 
$40.

I am thinking that there should be a way to restore the threads in a cheaper 
way. I was wondering if anyone has a reasonable way to do that. I am thinking 
about spreading some grease on a bolt with the correct size thread, putting 
some epoxy into the hole, and threading the bolt into the handle. The idea is 
that the epoxy should attach to the handle and not to the greased bolt. The 
thread is 1/4 - 20.

Am I completely out to lunch? Any ideas how to prepare he bolt, so that the 
epoxy won’t adhere to it?


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This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Northstar Explorer S310 Paddlewheel Axle

[Thomas Delaney via CnC-List]

Hi Listers,

A well intentioned crew member tried to remove my speed transducer from the
hull this evening and managed to lose the pin that holds the paddlewheel in
the transducer. It is a Northstar Explorer S310. I have the paddlewheel,
and just need that axle. Does anyone know where to source something like
that?

Thanks,
Tom


-- 
---
Thomas C. Delaney
917-337-5524
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!