Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

[bushmark4--- via CnC-List]

 Hi all, I have a question about short handed sailing for short distances, like 
when you only have an hour or two and want to go out. On such occasions, I am 
typically by myself; I know many of us do that. So, when such an opportunity 
arises what sail combination would you typically use? We're in a generally 
light wind area, the Ohio River; and we seem to have weather patterns somewhat 
similar to the Chesapeake weather.  I frequently use headsail only, my boat 
having a 140%.  This is more than adequate for most weather and too much if the 
wind pipes up; however, the boat (1985 37 CB) tracks very well and I can sail 
reasonably close to the wind ( not racing, unless, of course, there's another 
boat in sight...).   The 140 can be a real bear in anything above 15

I am looking at replacing the headsail and the collective wisdom seems to be to 
reduce the size of the headsail to 125% or even down to 100%, for the purpose 
of easier handling and tacking.   My question is; does reducing the headsail 
size affect the ability to sail with the headsail only on these short sails?  
Or will I need to begin using the main all the time?   Will I suffer 
performance in those summer months, like July and August, when we are happy to 
get 5-10 mph winds? 



Many thanks


Richard
S/V Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB, Ohio River, mile 596

Richard N. Bush
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255

 



This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I assume you have a furler and intend to use it?

There are a lot of personal preferences and situational choices.  I had
similar questions for my sail maker when I had the headsail made.  I didn't
mind the 145 I had but wanted to know if something bigger would eek out a
little more performance.  He said that a 155 might get me an extra 0.5kts
on a light wind day and a 135 might cost me 0.5kts on that same day.  But
what is the max wind that I wanted to use the sail in?  And what is my
"normal" wind?  20kts?  Not normal.  5 to 10 with peaks of 15.  Yep pretty
normal.  Everybody wants to avoid buying more than one sail buy building
one that can do everything.  The problem is that it does everything
poorly.  The better choice is to build the sail for you purpose.  It might
not get the most out of the boat all the time but it will work well 75% of
the time.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Dec 2, 2016 6:21 AM, "bushmark4--- via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Hi all, I have a question about short handed sailing for short distances,
> like when you only have an hour or two and want to go out. On such
> occasions, I am typically by myself; I know many of us do that. So, when
> such an opportunity arises what sail combination would you typically use?
> We're in a generally light wind area, the Ohio River; and we seem to have
> weather patterns somewhat similar to the Chesapeake weather.  I frequently
> use headsail only, my boat having a 140%.  This is more than adequate for
> most weather and too much if the wind pipes up; however, the boat (1985 37
> CB) tracks very well and I can sail reasonably close to the wind ( not
> racing, unless, of course, there's another boat in sight...).   The 140 can
> be a real bear in anything above 15
>
> I am looking at replacing the headsail and the collective wisdom seems to
> be to reduce the size of the headsail to 125% or even down to 100%, for the
> purpose of easier handling and tacking.   My question is; does reducing the
> headsail size affect the ability to sail with the headsail only on these
> short sails?  Or will I need to begin using the main all the time?   Will I
> suffer performance in those summer months, like July and August, when we
> are happy to get 5-10 mph winds?
>
> Many thanks
>
>
> Richard
> S/V Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB, Ohio River, mile 596
>
> Richard N. Bush
> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
> 502-584-7255 <(502)%20584-7255>
>
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

[bushmark4--- via CnC-List]

Josh, thanks, in answer to your question, I do have a furler and will use it.   
Also, I fully agree with your assessments about wind strength and personal 
choices, and I am prepared to make such. My hesitancy is about whether the boat 
can sail reasonable well if I go to a smaller size, say a 125, 115, etc. Will I 
still be able to sail just using the headsail or will going smaller require use 
of the Main all the time?  
 

 


Richard
S/V Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB, Ohio River, mile 596
Richard N. Bush  
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
To: C&C List 
Cc: Josh Muckley 
Sent: Fri, Dec 2, 2016 8:18 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection



I assume you have a furler and intend to use it?


There are a lot of personal preferences and situational choices.  I had similar 
questions for my sail maker when I had the headsail made.  I didn't mind the 
145 I had but wanted to know if something bigger would eek out a little more 
performance.  He said that a 155 might get me an extra 0.5kts on a light wind 
day and a 135 might cost me 0.5kts on that same day.  But what is the max wind 
that I wanted to use the sail in?  And what is my "normal" wind?  20kts?  Not 
normal.  5 to 10 with peaks of 15.  Yep pretty normal.  Everybody wants to 
avoid buying more than one sail buy building one that can do everything.  The 
problem is that it does everything poorly.  The better choice is to build the 
sail for you purpose.  It might not get the most out of the boat all the time 
but it will work well 75% of the time.


Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD




This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

Richard,

To echo Josh’s statement, utilizing a roller furler for your jib will increase 
your options.  Have you ever tried to “reef” your existing 140% jib when the 
wind pipes up?  As in furling the jib to where the clew is athwartships of the 
mast to create a 100% jib?  While the sail shape may not be optimal for maximum 
performance (the foot and clew of the sail will be significantly higher than it 
should be), it may give you the flexibility you need.  And if you are buying a 
new headsail, tell your sailmaker that you would like to have the option of 
sailing with the jib partially furled.  They will cut the sail differently and 
install some foam in the luff to improve the sail shape when it is reefed.  I 
would also play around with jib car placement to get a better shape when you 
shorten sail.

Even if you’re considering the purchase of a newer small sail, try sailing with 
a partially reefed jib and see what sail dimension works best for the widest 
range of conditions.  THEN you can order the smaller sail with the knowledge 
that the boat will likely sail even better with the proper cut of the sail.

I know with my Landfall 35, if I sail with just the 135% jib and no mainsail, 
the center of effort moves significantly forward and the boat develops a bit of 
lee helm, which I can moderate somewhat by adding some twist to the leech.  
Creating a balanced sail plan to account for all conditions, but using only one 
sail is a challenge that will require a fair amount of experimentation to come 
up with the right set up.  

Go sail, take notes (wind speed, wind angles, jib car position, amount of 
weather or lee helm) and put marks on the furling line to various dimensions to 
help you decide where to furl the jib for various conditions.

You know your boat better than anyone and your empirical trial and error 
findings will be more valuable than anything that an outsider can suggest.

Good luck,

Chuck Gilchrest

S/V Half Magic

1983 35 Landfall

Padanaram, MA

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of bushmark4--- 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2016 7:20 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: bushma...@aol.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

 

Hi all, I have a question about short handed sailing for short distances, like 
when you only have an hour or two and want to go out. On such occasions, I am 
typically by myself; I know many of us do that. So, when such an opportunity 
arises what sail combination would you typically use? We're in a generally 
light wind area, the Ohio River; and we seem to have weather patterns somewhat 
similar to the Chesapeake weather.  I frequently use headsail only, my boat 
having a 140%.  This is more than adequate for most weather and too much if the 
wind pipes up; however, the boat (1985 37 CB) tracks very well and I can sail 
reasonably close to the wind ( not racing, unless, of course, there's another 
boat in sight...).   The 140 can be a real bear in anything above 15

I am looking at replacing the headsail and the collective wisdom seems to be to 
reduce the size of the headsail to 125% or even down to 100%, for the purpose 
of easier handling and tacking.   My question is; does reducing the headsail 
size affect the ability to sail with the headsail only on these short sails?  
Or will I need to begin using the main all the time?   Will I suffer 
performance in those summer months, like July and August, when we are happy to 
get 5-10 mph winds? 


Many thanks


Richard

S/V Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB, Ohio River, mile 596

Richard N. Bush
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255

 

 

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

I would not go below 130% or you will be going real slow a lot of the time.
You can furl in enough to handle heavier days.

Joe
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of bushmark4--- 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 8:32 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: bushma...@aol.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

Josh, thanks, in answer to your question, I do have a furler and will use it.   
Also, I fully agree with your assessments about wind strength and personal 
choices, and I am prepared to make such. My hesitancy is about whether the boat 
can sail reasonable well if I go to a smaller size, say a 125, 115, etc. Will I 
still be able to sail just using the headsail or will going smaller require use 
of the Main all the time?


Richard
S/V Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB, Ohio River, mile 596
Richard N. Bush
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
502-584-7255


-Original Message-
From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
To: C&C List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Josh Muckley mailto:muckl...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Fri, Dec 2, 2016 8:18 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection
I assume you have a furler and intend to use it?

There are a lot of personal preferences and situational choices.  I had similar 
questions for my sail maker when I had the headsail made.  I didn't mind the 
145 I had but wanted to know if something bigger would eek out a little more 
performance.  He said that a 155 might get me an extra 0.5kts on a light wind 
day and a 135 might cost me 0.5kts on that same day.  But what is the max wind 
that I wanted to use the sail in?  And what is my "normal" wind?  20kts?  Not 
normal.  5 to 10 with peaks of 15.  Yep pretty normal.  Everybody wants to 
avoid buying more than one sail buy building one that can do everything.  The 
problem is that it does everything poorly.  The better choice is to build the 
sail for you purpose.  It might not get the most out of the boat all the time 
but it will work well 75% of the time.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

[robert via CnC-List]

Richard:

I am one of those "short handed sailing for short distances"..have 
my boat out +100 days a season here. Got the boat in 2006it came 
with an inventory of head sails, e.g. 150% 3DL, 155% kevlar, 150% 
tri-radical dacron,  150% cross cut dacron, 100% dacron and others, but 
no 135%.


I started sailing with the 150% dacron (roller furler of course) but 
quickly found it to be too much sail many days here when the afternoon 
breeze is normally in the 12 to 15 knot range.  So I sold 3 sails and 
with the money had Doyle make me a 135% cross cut dacron.this is now 
my 'go to sail'.  The boat responds very well with it, most days it is 
all the sail I have up.


Over the past several years, I have begun to use my 100% in the early 
Spring and in the Fall beginning in September as the wind many days is 
in the +15 knot range.  By far the better sail all aroundthe boat 
stands up, speed is good, easy to handle.all around a much smarter 
way to sail.


Combine the 100% with the main, and this is the sail I would be using 
all season as I am not racing and not in any big hurry to get from one 
place to another.  On those days when I use my main (and am doing it 
more now than ever before) the 100% is quite adequate.


So to answer your question, will you suffer performance in those Summer 
months, July and August, with 5-10 mph winds, absolutely.   I estimate I 
would loose 0.5 to 1.0 knot with my 100% versus my 135% in those conditions.


You have to choose between speed or easier handling and tacking.or 
do what I do if the wind conditions are similar, use a 100% in the 
Spring and Fall and a 135% in the Summer.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C&C 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.

On 2016-12-02 8:20 AM, bushmark4--- via CnC-List wrote:
Hi all, I have a question about short handed sailing for short 
distances, like when you only have an hour or two and want to go out. 
On such occasions, I am typically by myself; I know many of us do 
that. So, when such an opportunity arises what sail combination would 
you typically use? We're in a generally light wind area, the Ohio 
River; and we seem to have weather patterns somewhat similar to the 
Chesapeake weather.  I frequently use headsail only, my boat having a 
140%.  This is more than adequate for most weather and too much if the 
wind pipes up; however, the boat (1985 37 CB) tracks very well and I 
can sail reasonably close to the wind ( not racing, unless, of course, 
there's another boat in sight...).   The 140 can be a real bear in 
anything above 15


I am looking at replacing the headsail and the collective wisdom seems 
to be to reduce the size of the headsail to 125% or even down to 100%, 
for the purpose of easier handling and tacking.   My question is; does 
reducing the headsail size affect the ability to sail with the 
headsail only on these short sails?  Or will I need to begin using the 
main all the time?   Will I suffer performance in those summer months, 
like July and August, when we are happy to get 5-10 mph winds?


Many thanks


Richard
S/V Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB, Ohio River, mile 596

Richard N. Bush
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
502-584-7255


This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If 
you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Hi, Richard — I’ve got a 135% for my sole furled headsail; that along with the 
main will cover most conditions I typically sail in on Lake Superior; I always 
reef the main first, usually skipping the first reef and going straight to the 
second reef.  If it’s heavier weather, I can use a storm jib I got with the 
boat, on which I had ATN do a “Gale Sail” conversion (I’ve never had occasion 
to do this…); if it’s lighter air, I’ve got a symmetrical spin I “inherited”, 
along with a sock, which I hoist like an asymmetrical cruising chute.  With the 
autopilot (I know you’ve got one…  :^), I can mange all this pretty much 
single-handed.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Dec 2, 2016, at 7:59 AM, robert via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
> Richard:
> 
> I am one of those  "short handed sailing for short distances"..have my 
> boat out +100 days a season here.  Got the boat in 2006it came with an 
> inventory of head sails, e.g. 150% 3DL, 155% kevlar, 150% tri-radical dacron, 
>  150% cross cut dacron, 100% dacron and others, but no 135%.
> 
> I started sailing with the 150% dacron (roller furler of course) but quickly 
> found it to be too much sail many days here when the afternoon breeze is 
> normally in the 12 to 15 knot range.  So I sold 3 sails and with the money 
> had Doyle make me a 135% cross cut dacron.this is now my 'go to sail'.  
> The boat responds very well with it, most days it is all the sail I have up.
> 
> Over the past several years, I have begun to use my 100% in the early Spring 
> and in the Fall beginning in September as the wind many days is in the +15 
> knot range.  By far the better sail all aroundthe boat stands up, speed 
> is good, easy to handle.all around a much smarter way to sail.  
> 
> Combine the 100% with the main, and this is the sail I would be using all 
> season as I am not racing and not in any big hurry to get from one place to 
> another.  On those days when I use my main (and am doing it more now than 
> ever before) the 100% is quite adequate.
> 
> So to answer your question, will you suffer performance in those Summer 
> months, July and August, with 5-10 mph winds, absolutely.   I estimate I 
> would loose 0.5 to 1.0 knot with my 100% versus my 135% in those conditions.
> 
> You have to choose between speed or easier handling and tacking.or do 
> what I do if the wind conditions are similar, use a 100% in the Spring and 
> Fall and a 135% in the Summer.
> 
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C&C 32 - 84
> Halifax, N.S.
> 
> On 2016-12-02 8:20 AM, bushmark4--- via CnC-List wrote:
>> Hi all, I have a question about short handed sailing for short distances, 
>> like when you only have an hour or two and want to go out. On such 
>> occasions, I am typically by myself; I know many of us do that. So, when 
>> such an opportunity arises what sail combination would you typically use? 
>> We're in a generally light wind area, the Ohio River; and we seem to have 
>> weather patterns somewhat similar to the Chesapeake weather.  I frequently 
>> use headsail only, my boat having a 140%.  This is more than adequate for 
>> most weather and too much if the wind pipes up; however, the boat (1985 37 
>> CB) tracks very well and I can sail reasonably close to the wind ( not 
>> racing, unless, of course, there's another boat in sight...).   The 140 can 
>> be a real bear in anything above 15
>> 
>> I am looking at replacing the headsail and the collective wisdom seems to be 
>> to reduce the size of the headsail to 125% or even down to 100%, for the 
>> purpose of easier handling and tacking.   My question is; does reducing the 
>> headsail size affect the ability to sail with the headsail only on these 
>> short sails?  Or will I need to begin using the main all the time?   Will I 
>> suffer performance in those summer months, like July and August, when we are 
>> happy to get 5-10 mph winds? 
>> 
>> Many thanks
>> 
>> 
>> Richard
>> S/V Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB, Ohio River, mile 596
>> 
>> Richard N. Bush
>> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
>> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
>> 502-584-7255
>> 
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
>> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: 
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>> 
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
>> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>> 
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.pay

Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

[BillBinaList via CnC-List]

A fresh sail the same general size as what you have will be flatter and 
better shaped. so it will behave better in higher winds than an old 
bagged sail that may have never had a really optimal shape, even when 
new. The difference in a new well designed sail compared to an old sail 
can be very dramatic.


I single hand frequently and solved all my problems with a truly 
reefable genoa from Kappa Sails in Westbrook, CT. They have patents on 
it. The sail is made in graduated weight cloth so when you roll out to a 
100%, it is just the heaviest cloth exposed, and as you roll out to a 
130 and a 150%, the clothe is thinner. The sausage that is on the 
forestay when partially rolled up, is the thinnest cloth and has 
structure that keeps the sail shape good at all stages of furling. There 
have been a few other companies that have tried, this idea, but none of 
them worked quite as well as this one. The founder of Kappa Sails, who 
designed many high performance sails, was Clarke Basset. He also 
designed and built sails for America's cup 12 meter boats. Clarke died 
recently, but one of his long time employees bought the business and is 
still producing sails under Clarke's many patents.


Bill Bina


On 12/2/2016 7:20 AM, bushmark4--- via CnC-List wrote:
Hi all, I have a question about short handed sailing for short 
distances, like when you only have an hour or two and want to go out. 
On such occasions, I am typically by myself; I know many of us do 
that. So, when such an opportunity arises what sail combination would 
you typically use? We're in a generally light wind area, the Ohio 
River; and we seem to have weather patterns somewhat similar to the 
Chesapeake weather.  I frequently use headsail only, my boat having a 
140%.  This is more than adequate for most weather and too much if the 
wind pipes up; however, the boat (1985 37 CB) tracks very well and I 
can sail reasonably close to the wind ( not racing, unless, of course, 
there's another boat in sight...).   The 140 can be a real bear in 
anything above 15


I am looking at replacing the headsail and the collective wisdom seems 
to be to reduce the size of the headsail to 125% or even down to 100%, 
for the purpose of easier handling and tacking.   My question is; does 
reducing the headsail size affect the ability to sail with the 
headsail only on these short sails?  Or will I need to begin using the 
main all the time?   Will I suffer performance in those summer months, 
like July and August, when we are happy to get 5-10 mph winds?


Many thanks


Richard
S/V Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB, Ohio River, mile 596

Richard N. Bush
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
502-584-7255


This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If 
you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Where are we buying solar panels?

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

No politics on this list, please.

From: RANDY via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 3:00 PM
To: cnc-list 
Cc: RANDY 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Where are we buying solar panels?

Too bad US voters don't live in that world :)

(now I'm ducking and running for cover :)

Cheers,
Randy




From: "Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List" 
To: "cnc-list" 
Cc: "Bill Bina - gmail" 
Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 8:32:10 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Where are we buying solar panels?


In the world of science and mathematics, anecdotes are not not considered data, 
and data is not knowledge. Believe what you like. :-)


Bill Bina


On 12/1/2016 9:57 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote:

  Not sure I agree. I have never seen solar panels sold at suboptimal power 
points. 

  I grabbed one random model from the Miami Electrical site someone mentioned 
and it is no different:

  http://www.suniva.com/documents/OPTXXX-60-4-100%2008%2009%2012.pdf

  Max power is 250 watts at 29.6 volts, and max current is 8.44 amps. 

  If you want 250 watts out of it, you need a MPPT controller to translate 29.6 
volts into whatever you need.

  The Renogy is the exact same, it  gets max power at 18.5 volts and you need a 
MPPT controller to translate into what you need.

  Are you implying the Suniva panel actually puts out MORE than 250 watts but 
they are not telling you that for some reason? Their own document states MAX 
POWER. It would be a bit odd to say the least if 250 watt panels were really 
300+ watt panels with the right controller.



  Joe

  Coquina



  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bina 
- gmail via CnC-List
  Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 09:28
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Cc: Bill Bina - gmail mailto:billbinal...@gmail.com
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Where are we buying solar panels?



  Ohms law supercedes marketing fluff and folklore. Renogy is not as 
forthcoming as many of it's competitors. No, all panels are not sold to the 
same standards as Renogy. Can a car manufacturer claim 30 miles per gallon, 
based on mileage attained without the car's interior installed, and tires 
inflated to 100 psi? 

  Bill Bina







___


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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!





___

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___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

[Andrew Burton via CnC-List]

As has been noted, it's all about personal preference. One thing we C&C owners 
have going for us is the fact that our boats perform better than most out 
there. With that in mind, I mostly fly my working jib, which looks like it's 
about 100%, maybe 110%. Even in light air I go better than most of the 
Benehuntecats. 
Three things make this one my choice: it's easy to tack around my babystay, 
easy to grind in, and when the breeze is up, it still looks good and I don't 
need to worry about it breaking in a big puff. 
I'm not racing, so I don't need to get every tenth of a knot out of the boat. 
When I do race, I have a 155 that comes way back to the back of the house and 
is a bear to tack...or so it seems from my perch behind the wheel.
Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine 

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

> 
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Hi Richard

Another thing you may consider for short handed sailing is some sort of a 
Dutchman system.  One that quickly comes to mind is Doyle’s Stack Pack although 
other sail makers have their own systems.  A friend has the Stack Pack and it 
makes using the main much less hassle.  Once up a main is far more friendly for 
single handing than a jib or genoa but many of us go with just a jib because we 
find flaking or stowing the main short handed a real pain.

With the genoa I don’t think you wish to reef by rolling more than a 135 down 
to a 100 or similar.  North makes a nice roller reefing solution with vertical 
foam sections at the luff.  This is supposed to allow you to roll up some of 
the headsail without losing too much sail shape.  Remember that with rolling a 
genoa it is not just about the large roll on the forestay but likely even more 
about the resulting sail shape of what is left rolled out.

Mike
Persistence
Halifax, NS

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of bushmark4--- 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 8:20 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: bushma...@aol.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

Hi all, I have a question about short handed sailing for short distances, like 
when you only have an hour or two and want to go out. On such occasions, I am 
typically by myself; I know many of us do that. So, when such an opportunity 
arises what sail combination would you typically use? We're in a generally 
light wind area, the Ohio River; and we seem to have weather patterns somewhat 
similar to the Chesapeake weather.  I frequently use headsail only, my boat 
having a 140%.  This is more than adequate for most weather and too much if the 
wind pipes up; however, the boat (1985 37 CB) tracks very well and I can sail 
reasonably close to the wind ( not racing, unless, of course, there's another 
boat in sight...).   The 140 can be a real bear in anything above 15

I am looking at replacing the headsail and the collective wisdom seems to be to 
reduce the size of the headsail to 125% or even down to 100%, for the purpose 
of easier handling and tacking.   My question is; does reducing the headsail 
size affect the ability to sail with the headsail only on these short sails?  
Or will I need to begin using the main all the time?   Will I suffer 
performance in those summer months, like July and August, when we are happy to 
get 5-10 mph winds?

Many thanks


Richard
S/V Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB, Ohio River, mile 596

Richard N. Bush
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
502-584-7255


This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Richard,

If the wind is 5-10 how likely are you to motor now?  Anything smaller than
a 125 will likely increase your motoring time/decrease your time under sail
unless you have a high tolerance for SOG under 2.5 knots.  When racing my
35, the difference between the 135 and 155 (main and jib) was about 1/2 a
knot in light air.  Never tried the 155 by itself.

I now have lazy jacks that clip to the eye straps on the boom.  Makes
lowering the main much easier, and we unclip them when racing distance.

Joel

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Richard
>
>
>
> Another thing you may consider for short handed sailing is some sort of a
> Dutchman system.  One that quickly comes to mind is Doyle’s Stack Pack
> although other sail makers have their own systems.  A friend has the Stack
> Pack and it makes using the main much less hassle.  Once up a main is far
> more friendly for single handing than a jib or genoa but many of us go with
> just a jib because we find flaking or stowing the main short handed a real
> pain.
>
>
>
> With the genoa I don’t think you wish to reef by rolling more than a 135
> down to a 100 or similar.  North makes a nice roller reefing solution with
> vertical foam sections at the luff.  This is supposed to allow you to roll
> up some of the headsail without losing too much sail shape.  Remember that
> with rolling a genoa it is not just about the large roll on the forestay
> but likely even more about the resulting sail shape of what is left rolled
> out.
>
>
>
> Mike
>
> Persistence
>
> Halifax, NS
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
> *bushmark4---
> via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, December 02, 2016 8:20 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* bushma...@aol.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection
>
>
>
> Hi all, I have a question about short handed sailing for short distances,
> like when you only have an hour or two and want to go out. On such
> occasions, I am typically by myself; I know many of us do that. So, when
> such an opportunity arises what sail combination would you typically use?
> We're in a generally light wind area, the Ohio River; and we seem to have
> weather patterns somewhat similar to the Chesapeake weather.  I frequently
> use headsail only, my boat having a 140%.  This is more than adequate for
> most weather and too much if the wind pipes up; however, the boat (1985 37
> CB) tracks very well and I can sail reasonably close to the wind ( not
> racing, unless, of course, there's another boat in sight...).   The 140 can
> be a real bear in anything above 15
>
>
> I am looking at replacing the headsail and the collective wisdom seems to
> be to reduce the size of the headsail to 125% or even down to 100%, for the
> purpose of easier handling and tacking.   My question is; does reducing the
> headsail size affect the ability to sail with the headsail only on these
> short sails?  Or will I need to begin using the main all the time?   Will I
> suffer performance in those summer months, like July and August, when we
> are happy to get 5-10 mph winds?
>
>
> Many thanks
>
>
> Richard
>
> S/V Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB, Ohio River, mile 596
>
> Richard N. Bush
> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
> 502-584-7255 <(502)%20584-7255>
>
>
>
>
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

[bushmark4--- via CnC-List]

 Thanks to everyone for the awesome replies: you have set out the parameters 
for each type of sail and backed it up with experience!  If anyone out there is 
thinking of writing a book or article about sail selection, you guys have 
collectively written a whole chapter on short handed sailing!I like the 135 
approach as a solo sail and the combination of a 100 and a 135 for spring and 
summer...   I am definitely looking at getting the stackpack for the main.   As 
an aside I was out a week or so ago and used the headsail only, and we had 
winds in the 12-18 range with gusts to 27...while it was great fun, the sail 
was really tough to get in.  I should have tried Chuck's reefing idea then!

thanks to everyone again; now I gotta see whats in the kitty!  
 


Richard
S/V Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 596.


Richard N. Bush
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Andrew Burton 
Sent: Fri, Dec 2, 2016 9:24 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection



As has been noted, it's all about personal preference. One thing we C&C owners 
have going for us is the fact that our boats perform better than most out 
there. With that in mind, I mostly fly my working jib, which looks like it's 
about 100%, maybe 110%. Even in light air I go better than most of the 
Benehuntecats. 
Three things make this one my choice: it's easy to tack around my babystay, 
easy to grind in, and when the breeze is up, it still looks good and I don't 
need to worry about it breaking in a big puff. 
I'm not racing, so I don't need to get every tenth of a knot out of the boat. 
When I do race, I have a 155 that comes way back to the back of the house and 
is a bear to tack...or so it seems from my perch behind the wheel.
Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine 

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840


http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260





___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

[Larry via CnC-List]

I have to second Andy 2 cents

I have been flying the 130/135 most of the time. I went out with an old sea-dog 
and he suggested putting up the 100/110 and leaving it up. I have found the 110 
is very easy to handle and meets my needs. I normally go out with me and a 
friend. The boat is easily handled in winds up to 22 knots. The 135 was more 
work to tack. In light air I raise the main and full out the headsail. If I 
need to reef, I reef early and bypass the first reef point.  But I am not into 
racing and never will be. I leave racing to by tow wheel rocket. I enjoy the 
calm of sailing.

 

I am impressed with you. Sailing a C&C 37 on the Ohio. You must be a sight. Not 
many large boats in your area.

I lived in Charleston, WV for 12 years.

 

Larry

38-ft MKIII

Puget Sound

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of bushmark4--- 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 8:13 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: bushma...@aol.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

 

Thanks to everyone for the awesome replies: you have set out the parameters for 
each type of sail and backed it up with experience!  If anyone out there is 
thinking of writing a book or article about sail selection, you guys have 
collectively written a whole chapter on short handed sailing!I like the 135 
approach as a solo sail and the combination of a 100 and a 135 for spring and 
summer...   I am definitely looking at getting the stackpack for the main.   As 
an aside I was out a week or so ago and used the headsail only, and we had 
winds in the 12-18 range with gusts to 27...while it was great fun, the sail 
was really tough to get in.  I should have tried Chuck's reefing idea then!

thanks to everyone again; now I gotta see whats in the kitty!  

 

Richard

S/V Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 596.


Richard N. Bush
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Andrew Burton via CnC-List <  
cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: cnc-list <  cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Andrew Burton <  
a.burton.sai...@gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Dec 2, 2016 9:24 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

As has been noted, it's all about personal preference. One thing we C&C owners 
have going for us is the fact that our boats perform better than most out 
there. With that in mind, I mostly fly my working jib, which looks like it's 
about 100%, maybe 110%. Even in light air I go better than most of the 
Benehuntecats. 

Three things make this one my choice: it's easy to tack around my babystay, 
easy to grind in, and when the breeze is up, it still looks good and I don't 
need to worry about it breaking in a big puff. 

I'm not racing, so I don't need to get every tenth of a knot out of the boat. 
When I do race, I have a 155 that comes way back to the back of the house and 
is a bear to tack...or so it seems from my perch behind the wheel.

Andy

C&C 40

Peregrine 

Andrew Burton 

61 W Narragansett

Newport, RI 

USA02840

 

  
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ 

+401 965-5260

 

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
 https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Landfall for sale

[detroito91]

That was my reaction at firstno canvas showing, plumbing problems, and 
so on.  Still lower than i would like to see for mine.Jim schwartzSEA YA!1981 
landfall 38Washington nc (in the water!)



-- Original message--From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List Date: Thu, 
Dec 1, 2016 8:44 PMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.com;Cc: Frederick G Street;Subject:Re: 
Stus-List Landfall for sale
Looks just like my boat — but with the original upholstery…    That was 
one of the first things I changed.
Depressing that the sell price is so low…
— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
On Dec 1, 2016, at 8:27 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List  
wrote:
Saw this on CL:
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/boa/5899418631.html
No affiliation with the owner.
-- 
Joel 
301 541 8551___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

[bushmark4--- via CnC-List]

 Larry, thanks...sailing on thew Ohio is still good sailing; I tell people, its 
about a mile wide and as long as you want it to be...of course, we tack a 
lot

 


Richard

S/V Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 596.


Richard N. Bush 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Larry via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Larry 
Sent: Fri, Dec 2, 2016 12:15 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection



I have to second Andy 2 cents
I have been flying the 130/135 most of the time. I went out with an old sea-dog 
and he suggested putting up the 100/110 and leaving it up. I have found the 110 
is very easy to handle and meets my needs. I normally go out with me and a 
friend. The boat is easily handled in winds up to 22 knots. The 135 was more 
work to tack. In light air I raise the main and full out the headsail. If I 
need to reef, I reef early and bypass the first reef point.  But I am not into 
racing and never will be. I leave racing to by tow wheel rocket. I enjoy the 
calm of sailing.
 
I am impressed with you. Sailing a C&C 37 on the Ohio. You must be a sight. Not 
many large boats in your area.
I lived in Charleston, WV for 12 years.
 
Larry
38-ft MKIII
Puget Sound
 



___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

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___

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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

I am not to try dissuading you about the stack pack; however, before you spring 
$$$ for that improvement, try a simple set of lazy jacks. The total cost of a 
set would be under $100 (especially, if you do it all yourself). I find them 
(lazy jacks) extremely useful, especially, if you single handle.

Some people don’t like the lazy jacks (but the stack pack would have the same 
issues). The problems arise from the lines getting entangled in battens. The 
solution for that is to move the lines from the mast to the spreaders (half way 
is enough) and making sure that when you set the main or drop it you are 
reasonably close to wind (right into the wind, preferably).

Marek
1994 C270 “Legato”
Ottawa, ON

From: bushmark4--- via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2016 11:14
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: bushma...@aol.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

Thanks to everyone for the awesome replies: you have set out the parameters for 
each type of sail and backed it up with experience!  If anyone out there is 
thinking of writing a book or article about sail selection, you guys have 
collectively written a whole chapter on short handed sailing!I like the 135 
approach as a solo sail and the combination of a 100 and a 135 for spring and 
summer...   I am definitely looking at getting the stackpack for the main.   As 
an aside I was out a week or so ago and used the headsail only, and we had 
winds in the 12-18 range with gusts to 27...while it was great fun, the sail 
was really tough to get in.  I should have tried Chuck's reefing idea then!

thanks to everyone again; now I gotta see whats in the kitty!

Richard
S/V Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 596.


Richard N. Bush
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
502-584-7255


-Original Message-
From: Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Andrew Burton 
Sent: Fri, Dec 2, 2016 9:24 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

As has been noted, it's all about personal preference. One thing we C&C owners 
have going for us is the fact that our boats perform better than most out 
there. With that in mind, I mostly fly my working jib, which looks like it's 
about 100%, maybe 110%. Even in light air I go better than most of the 
Benehuntecats.
Three things make this one my choice: it's easy to tack around my babystay, 
easy to grind in, and when the breeze is up, it still looks good and I don't 
need to worry about it breaking in a big puff.
I'm not racing, so I don't need to get every tenth of a knot out of the boat. 
When I do race, I have a 155 that comes way back to the back of the house and 
is a bear to tack...or so it seems from my perch behind the wheel.
Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

[Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List]

I concur with Marek. I have a stack pack and would personally prefer a
simple set of lazyjacks and a traditional mainsail cover.

On the 42' boat I race on, we keep the lazy jacks "away" forward by the
goose neck. Therefore, when raising the main they do not get in the way of
the battens. Before dropping, we deploy the lazy jacks "Up" drop the main,
and deal with flaking and sail ties back at the dock. The lazy jacks are
put "away" again before we put the sail cover on.

I follow roughly the same procedure on our boat with our stack pack. I
personally never understood people trying to raise their batten'd main with
the stack pack or lazy jacks deployed. 2 out of 3 times you are going to
catch at least one batten and potentially damage your main or at least
cause unnecessary chafe/wear.

It is possible to set up lazy jacks with bungee and lines led to the
cockpit for those with reduced mobility or the lazy among us. I wouldn't
find it necessary unless I were hoisting and dousing the main multiple
times in a day, say as in a charter situation where you were taking people
out every few hours.

Two cents.

Kevin
PDX

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 11:42 AM Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I am not to try dissuading you about the stack pack; however, before you
> spring $$$ for that improvement, try a simple set of lazy jacks. The total
> cost of a set would be under $100 (especially, if you do it all yourself).
> I find them (lazy jacks) extremely useful, especially, if you single handle.
>
> Some people don’t like the lazy jacks (but the stack pack would have the
> same issues). The problems arise from the lines getting entangled in
> battens. The solution for that is to move the lines from the mast to the
> spreaders (half way is enough) and making sure that when you set the main
> or drop it you are reasonably close to wind (right into the wind,
> preferably).
>
> Marek
> 1994 C270 “Legato”
> Ottawa, ON
>
> *From:* bushmark4--- via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, December 2, 2016 11:14
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* bushma...@aol.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection
> Thanks to everyone for the awesome replies: you have set out the
> parameters for each type of sail and backed it up with experience!  If
> anyone out there is thinking of writing a book or article about sail
> selection, you guys have collectively written a whole chapter on short
> handed sailing!I like the 135 approach as a solo sail and the
> combination of a 100 and a 135 for spring and summer...   I am definitely
> looking at getting the stackpack for the main.   As an aside I was out a
> week or so ago and used the headsail only, and we had winds in the 12-18
> range with gusts to 27...while it was great fun, the sail was really tough
> to get in.  I should have tried Chuck's reefing idea then!
>
> thanks to everyone again; now I gotta see whats in the kitty!
>
> Richard
> S/V Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 596.
>
>
> Richard N. Bush
> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
> 502-584-7255 <(502)%20584-7255>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
> To: cnc-list 
> Cc: Andrew Burton 
> Sent: Fri, Dec 2, 2016 9:24 am
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection
>
> As has been noted, it's all about personal preference. One thing we C&C
> owners have going for us is the fact that our boats perform better than
> most out there. With that in mind, I mostly fly my working jib, which looks
> like it's about 100%, maybe 110%. Even in light air I go better than most
> of the Benehuntecats.
> Three things make this one my choice: it's easy to tack around my
> babystay, easy to grind in, and when the breeze is up, it still looks good
> and I don't need to worry about it breaking in a big puff.
> I'm not racing, so I don't need to get every tenth of a knot out of the
> boat. When I do race, I have a 155 that comes way back to the back of the
> house and is a bear to tack...or so it seems from my perch behind the wheel.
> Andy
> C&C 40
> Peregrine
>
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett
> Newport, RI
> USA02840
>
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> +401 965-5260
>
>
> ___
>
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> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
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Stus-List Fwd: Short handed sailing; sail selection

[bushmark4--- via CnC-List]

 Marek; thanks for the advice...I sure like the idea of spending $1000 vs  many 
$100sss!

 


Richard
S/V Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 596.
Richard N. Bush
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Marek Dziedzic 
Sent: Fri, Dec 2, 2016 2:42 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection





I am not to try dissuading you about the stack pack; however, before you spring 
$$$ for that improvement, try a simple set of lazy jacks. The total cost of a 
set would be under $100 (especially, if you do it all yourself). I find them 
(lazy jacks) extremely useful, especially, if you single handle.
 
Some people don’t like the lazy jacks (but the stack pack would have the same 
issues). The problems arise from the lines getting entangled in battens. The 
solution for that is to move the lines from the mast to the spreaders (half way 
is enough) and making sure that when you set the main or drop it you are 
reasonably close to wind (right into the wind, preferably).
 
Marek
1994 C270 “Legato”
Ottawa, ON

 




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Re: Stus-List Fwd: Short handed sailing; sail selection

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

I have lazy jacks and I have sailed on a boat with Stack Pack.  Lazy Jacks are 
not at all the same.

Mike

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of bushmark4--- 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 4:09 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: bushma...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Fwd: Short handed sailing; sail selection

Marek; thanks for the advice...I sure like the idea of spending $1000 vs  many 
$100sss!

Richard
S/V Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 596.
Richard N. Bush
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
502-584-7255


-Original Message-
From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
To: cnc-list mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Marek Dziedzic mailto:dziedzi...@hotmail.com>>
Sent: Fri, Dec 2, 2016 2:42 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

I am not to try dissuading you about the stack pack; however, before you spring 
$$$ for that improvement, try a simple set of lazy jacks. The total cost of a 
set would be under $100 (especially, if you do it all yourself). I find them 
(lazy jacks) extremely useful, especially, if you single handle.

Some people don’t like the lazy jacks (but the stack pack would have the same 
issues). The problems arise from the lines getting entangled in battens. The 
solution for that is to move the lines from the mast to the spreaders (half way 
is enough) and making sure that when you set the main or drop it you are 
reasonably close to wind (right into the wind, preferably).

Marek
1994 C270 “Legato”
Ottawa, ON


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Re: Stus-List Fwd: Short handed sailing; sail selection

[bushmark4--- via CnC-List]

 Mike, could you elaborate a bit? Do you mean the lazy jacks are not as good as 
having a stackpack type arrangement? Thanks

 


Richard
S/V Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 596

Richard N. Bush  
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Hoyt, Mike 
Sent: Fri, Dec 2, 2016 3:37 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fwd:  Short handed sailing; sail selection



I have lazy jacks and I have sailed on a boat with Stack Pack.  Lazy Jacks are 
not at all the same. 
 
Mike
 



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Re: Stus-List Fwd: Short handed sailing; sail selection

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Richard,

if you ever go that route, I can help completing the list of materials.

One advice – I am using micro blocks (where the lazy jacks are turning); some 
people use steel (SS) rings. I found that rings increased friction and chafe on 
the lines. But they are smaller (flatter) and might be lighter.

Second advice – the line required for lazy jacks is about twice as long as you 
think (guess how I know) and that ratio increases directly proportionally to 
the distance to the nearest chandlery.

Marek

From: bushmark4--- via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2016 15:10
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: bushma...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Fwd: Short handed sailing; sail selection

Marek; thanks for the advice...I sure like the idea of spending $1000 vs  many 
$100sss!

Richard
S/V Bushmark4; 1985 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 596.
Richard N. Bush
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
502-584-7255


-Original Message-
From: Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Marek Dziedzic 
Sent: Fri, Dec 2, 2016 2:42 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection


I am not to try dissuading you about the stack pack; however, before you spring 
$$$ for that improvement, try a simple set of lazy jacks. The total cost of a 
set would be under $100 (especially, if you do it all yourself). I find them 
(lazy jacks) extremely useful, especially, if you single handle.

Some people don’t like the lazy jacks (but the stack pack would have the same 
issues). The problems arise from the lines getting entangled in battens. The 
solution for that is to move the lines from the mast to the spreaders (half way 
is enough) and making sure that when you set the main or drop it you are 
reasonably close to wind (right into the wind, preferably).

Marek
1994 C270 “Legato”
Ottawa, ON


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Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection - now lazy jacks

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

btw. it is enough to move “away” (to the mast) only one side of the lazy jacks 
for hoisting the main. If you move the starboard side, you steer a bit off the 
wind (wind from the port bow) and the sail does not touch them.

Marek

From: Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2016 15:10
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Kevin Driscoll
Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

I concur with Marek. I have a stack pack and would personally prefer a simple 
set of lazyjacks and a traditional mainsail cover.

On the 42' boat I race on, we keep the lazy jacks "away" forward by the goose 
neck. Therefore, when raising the main they do not get in the way of the 
battens. Before dropping, we deploy the lazy jacks "Up" drop the main, and deal 
with flaking and sail ties back at the dock. The lazy jacks are put "away" 
again before we put the sail cover on.

I follow roughly the same procedure on our boat with our stack pack. I 
personally never understood people trying to raise their batten'd main with the 
stack pack or lazy jacks deployed. 2 out of 3 times you are going to catch at 
least one batten and potentially damage your main or at least cause unnecessary 
chafe/wear.

It is possible to set up lazy jacks with bungee and lines led to the cockpit 
for those with reduced mobility or the lazy among us. I wouldn't find it 
necessary unless I were hoisting and dousing the main multiple times in a day, 
say as in a charter situation where you were taking people out every few hours.

Two cents.

Kevin
PDX

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Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection - now lazy jacks

[Graham Young via CnC-List]

I'll third the sentiments of Marek and Kevin.  I have a Stack Pack/Lazy Jack 
set-up and it is really nice equipment, but if I had it to do over again I 
would probably just get the lazy jacks and save the money for the pack.
My lazy jacks turn on blocks on the spreaders and the lines then run to turning 
blocks at the base of the mast and then run back to the cockpit.  So the jacks 
can be loosened from the cockpit and allowed to dangle near the mast when 
raising the main/sailing and then pulled tight when it is time to lower the 
main.  They also have the option for someone to go forward and clip them down.
Graham YoungS/V Spellbound1981 C&C 32
 

On Friday, December 2, 2016 3:47 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
 wrote:
 

  btw. it is enough to move “away” (to the mast) only one side of the lazy 
jacks for hoisting the main. If you move the starboard side, you steer a bit 
off the wind (wind from the port bow) and the sail does not touch them. Marek 
From: Kevin Driscoll via CnC-ListSent: Friday, December 2, 2016 15:10To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Kevin Driscoll Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed 
sailing; sail selection I concur with Marek. I have a stack pack and would 
personally prefer a simple set of lazyjacks and a traditional mainsail cover.  
On the 42' boat I race on, we keep the lazy jacks "away" forward by the goose 
neck. Therefore, when raising the main they do not get in the way of the 
battens. Before dropping, we deploy the lazy jacks "Up" drop the main, and deal 
with flaking and sail ties back at the dock. The lazy jacks are put "away" 
again before we put the sail cover on. I follow roughly the same procedure on 
our boat with our stack pack. I personally never understood people trying to 
raise their batten'd main with the stack pack or lazy jacks deployed. 2 out of 
3 times you are going to catch at least one batten and potentially damage your 
main or at least cause unnecessary chafe/wear.  It is possible to set up lazy 
jacks with bungee and lines led to the cockpit for those with reduced mobility 
or the lazy among us. I wouldn't find it necessary unless I were hoisting and 
dousing the main multiple times in a day, say as in a charter situation where 
you were taking people out every few hours.  Two cents. KevinPDX 
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


   ___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection - now lazy jacks

[Dave Godwin via CnC-List]

Richard,

I’ve never had lazy-jacks on any of my boats but have just given my new rigger 
a detailed set of drawings for a 3-leg lazy-jack system that allows me to pull 
on one line which will pull all the lazy-jacks tight to the mast while sailing. 
I really, really hate the idea of lazy-jacks and/or a topping lift rubbing 
against my mainsail. Just the way I roll I guess.

That said, these days, having the ability to drop a mainsail/ fake it and cover 
it fairly quickly makes my wife very happy…

If you’re interested, I can send you a copy of the design.

Best,
Dave Godwin
1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
Ronin’s Overdue Refit 
> On Dec 2, 2016, at 4:29 PM, Graham Young via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> I'll third the sentiments of Marek and Kevin.  I have a Stack Pack/Lazy Jack 
> set-up and it is really nice equipment, but if I had it to do over again I 
> would probably just get the lazy jacks and save the money for the pack.
> 
> My lazy jacks turn on blocks on the spreaders and the lines then run to 
> turning blocks at the base of the mast and then run back to the cockpit.  So 
> the jacks can be loosened from the cockpit and allowed to dangle near the 
> mast when raising the main/sailing and then pulled tight when it is time to 
> lower the main.  They also have the option for someone to go forward and clip 
> them down.
> 
> Graham Young
> S/V Spellbound
> 1981 C&C 32
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, December 2, 2016 3:47 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> btw. it is enough to move “away” (to the mast) only one side of the lazy 
> jacks for hoisting the main. If you move the starboard side, you steer a bit 
> off the wind (wind from the port bow) and the sail does not touch them.
>  
> Marek
>  
> From: Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List 
> 
> Sent: Friday, December 2, 2016 15:10
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> 
> Cc: Kevin Driscoll 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection
>  
> I concur with Marek. I have a stack pack and would personally prefer a simple 
> set of lazyjacks and a traditional mainsail cover. 
>  
> On the 42' boat I race on, we keep the lazy jacks "away" forward by the goose 
> neck. Therefore, when raising the main they do not get in the way of the 
> battens. Before dropping, we deploy the lazy jacks "Up" drop the main, and 
> deal with flaking and sail ties back at the dock. The lazy jacks are put 
> "away" again before we put the sail cover on.
>  
> I follow roughly the same procedure on our boat with our stack pack. I 
> personally never understood people trying to raise their batten'd main with 
> the stack pack or lazy jacks deployed. 2 out of 3 times you are going to 
> catch at least one batten and potentially damage your main or at least cause 
> unnecessary chafe/wear.
>  
> It is possible to set up lazy jacks with bungee and lines led to the cockpit 
> for those with reduced mobility or the lazy among us. I wouldn't find it 
> necessary unless I were hoisting and dousing the main multiple times in a 
> day, say as in a charter situation where you were taking people out every few 
> hours.
>  
> Two cents.
>  
> Kevin
> PDX
>  
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

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Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection - now lazy jacks

[Larry via CnC-List]

David

I have a system that is very similar to E Z  jack system and it is great. I 
store it when underway and only deploy it when I am ready to lower the sail.

I tried their website, but there seems to be a problem with their site.

I can send you a couple of pdf’s with the design and how to set it up. I just 
replaced all the line to mine. 

A real easy system to maintain and use.

Larry

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave Godwin 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 3:32 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Dave Godwin
Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection - now lazy jacks

 

Richard,

 

I’ve never had lazy-jacks on any of my boats but have just given my new rigger 
a detailed set of drawings for a 3-leg lazy-jack system that allows me to pull 
on one line which will pull all the lazy-jacks tight to the mast while sailing. 
I really, really hate the idea of lazy-jacks and/or a topping lift rubbing 
against my mainsail. Just the way I roll I guess.

 

That said, these days, having the ability to drop a mainsail/ fake it and cover 
it fairly quickly makes my wife very happy…

 

If you’re interested, I can send you a copy of the design.

 

Best,

Dave Godwin
1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay

Ronin’s Overdue Refit  

 

On Dec 2, 2016, at 4:29 PM, Graham Young via CnC-List  
wrote:

 

I'll third the sentiments of Marek and Kevin.  I have a Stack Pack/Lazy Jack 
set-up and it is really nice equipment, but if I had it to do over again I 
would probably just get the lazy jacks and save the money for the pack.

 

My lazy jacks turn on blocks on the spreaders and the lines then run to turning 
blocks at the base of the mast and then run back to the cockpit.  So the jacks 
can be loosened from the cockpit and allowed to dangle near the mast when 
raising the main/sailing and then pulled tight when it is time to lower the 
main.  They also have the option for someone to go forward and clip them down.

 

Graham Young

S/V Spellbound

1981 C&C 32

 

 

On Friday, December 2, 2016 3:47 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
 wrote:

 

btw. it is enough to move “away” (to the mast) only one side of the lazy jacks 
for hoisting the main. If you move the starboard side, you steer a bit off the 
wind (wind from the port bow) and the sail does not touch them.

 

Marek

 

From: Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List 

Sent: Friday, December 2, 2016 15:10

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 

Cc: Kevin Driscoll 

Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

 

I concur with Marek. I have a stack pack and would personally prefer a simple 
set of lazyjacks and a traditional mainsail cover.  

 

On the 42' boat I race on, we keep the lazy jacks "away" forward by the goose 
neck. Therefore, when raising the main they do not get in the way of the 
battens. Before dropping, we deploy the lazy jacks "Up" drop the main, and deal 
with flaking and sail ties back at the dock. The lazy jacks are put "away" 
again before we put the sail cover on. 

 

I follow roughly the same procedure on our boat with our stack pack. I 
personally never understood people trying to raise their batten'd main with the 
stack pack or lazy jacks deployed. 2 out of 3 times you are going to catch at 
least one batten and potentially damage your main or at least cause unnecessary 
chafe/wear. 

 

It is possible to set up lazy jacks with bungee and lines led to the cockpit 
for those with reduced mobility or the lazy among us. I wouldn't find it 
necessary unless I were hoisting and dousing the main multiple times in a day, 
say as in a charter situation where you were taking people out every few hours. 

 

Two cents.

 

Kevin

PDX

 


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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

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___

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Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection - now lazy jacks

[Richard via CnC-List]

Dave, thank, I would really like to see what your design looks like!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 2, 2016, at 6:31 PM, Dave Godwin via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Richard,
> 
> I’ve never had lazy-jacks on any of my boats but have just given my new 
> rigger a detailed set of drawings for a 3-leg lazy-jack system that allows me 
> to pull on one line which will pull all the lazy-jacks tight to the mast 
> while sailing. I really, really hate the idea of lazy-jacks and/or a topping 
> lift rubbing against my mainsail. Just the way I roll I guess.
> 
> That said, these days, having the ability to drop a mainsail/ fake it and 
> cover it fairly quickly makes my wife very happy…
> 
> If you’re interested, I can send you a copy of the design.
> 
> Best,
> Dave Godwin
> 1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
> Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
> Ronin’s Overdue Refit
> 
>> On Dec 2, 2016, at 4:29 PM, Graham Young via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I'll third the sentiments of Marek and Kevin.  I have a Stack Pack/Lazy Jack 
>> set-up and it is really nice equipment, but if I had it to do over again I 
>> would probably just get the lazy jacks and save the money for the pack.
>> 
>> My lazy jacks turn on blocks on the spreaders and the lines then run to 
>> turning blocks at the base of the mast and then run back to the cockpit.  So 
>> the jacks can be loosened from the cockpit and allowed to dangle near the 
>> mast when raising the main/sailing and then pulled tight when it is time to 
>> lower the main.  They also have the option for someone to go forward and 
>> clip them down.
>> 
>> Graham Young
>> S/V Spellbound
>> 1981 C&C 32
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, December 2, 2016 3:47 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> btw. it is enough to move “away” (to the mast) only one side of the lazy 
>> jacks for hoisting the main. If you move the starboard side, you steer a bit 
>> off the wind (wind from the port bow) and the sail does not touch them.
>>  
>> Marek
>>  
>> From: Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List
>> Sent: Friday, December 2, 2016 15:10
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Cc: Kevin Driscoll
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection
>>  
>> I concur with Marek. I have a stack pack and would personally prefer a 
>> simple set of lazyjacks and a traditional mainsail cover. 
>>  
>> On the 42' boat I race on, we keep the lazy jacks "away" forward by the 
>> goose neck. Therefore, when raising the main they do not get in the way of 
>> the battens. Before dropping, we deploy the lazy jacks "Up" drop the main, 
>> and deal with flaking and sail ties back at the dock. The lazy jacks are put 
>> "away" again before we put the sail cover on.
>>  
>> I follow roughly the same procedure on our boat with our stack pack. I 
>> personally never understood people trying to raise their batten'd main with 
>> the stack pack or lazy jacks deployed. 2 out of 3 times you are going to 
>> catch at least one batten and potentially damage your main or at least cause 
>> unnecessary chafe/wear.
>>  
>> It is possible to set up lazy jacks with bungee and lines led to the cockpit 
>> for those with reduced mobility or the lazy among us. I wouldn't find it 
>> necessary unless I were hoisting and dousing the main multiple times in a 
>> day, say as in a charter situation where you were taking people out every 
>> few hours.
>>  
>> Two cents.
>>  
>> Kevin
>> PDX
>>  
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
>> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
>> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
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Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection - now lazy jacks

[Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List]

In boom furling.  Mike drop!

Typoed from my iPhone

Tom Buscaglia
Alera 1990 C&C 37+/40
Vashon Island WA
O 206.463.9200
C 305.409.3660
Skype - thombusc



> On Dec 2, 2016, at 3:51 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 15:50:12 -0800
> From: "Larry" 
> To: 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection - now lazy
>jacks
> Message-ID:
>
> 
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> David
> 
> I have a system that is very similar to E Z  jack system and it is great. I 
> store it when underway and only deploy it when I am ready to lower the sail.
> 
> I tried their website, but there seems to be a problem with their site.
> 
> I can send you a couple of pdf?s with the design and how to set it up. I just 
> replaced all the line to mine. 
> 
> A real easy system to maintain and use.
> 
> Larry
> 
> 
> 
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave 
> Godwin via CnC-List
> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 3:32 PM


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Stus-List Lazy Jack System

[Stu via CnC-List]

http://mtrack.me/tracking/raWzMz50paMkCGZmZGx1BGt1BGHzMKWjqzA2pzSaqaR9ZwH2ZGDjBGp1Way2LKu2pG0kZGNlAQNkZGp0Z1x___

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Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection - now lazy jacks

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

You don’t necessarily need a cheek block at the mast; an eye strap is fine - 
you just attach the line and drop it; you can adjust the lines on the lower 
legs.

I have a small clam cleat at the end of the boom, where the control line for 
the jacks is attached. If you make the lines long enough, you can drop them all 
the way to the mast.

Depending on the length of the boom, you want at least three or four legs, so 
that the sail is kept between the lines and does not fall off/out.

Use the thinnest line you can get away with. One would hope that you don’t plan 
to hold the boom up with the jacks (a topping lift or a rigid vang (or a 
Boomkicker) should do that).

Marek

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Richard via 
CnC-List
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 18:53
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Richard 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection - now lazy jacks

Dave, thank, I would really like to see what your design looks like!

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 2, 2016, at 6:31 PM, Dave Godwin via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Richard,

I’ve never had lazy-jacks on any of my boats but have just given my new rigger 
a detailed set of drawings for a 3-leg lazy-jack system that allows me to pull 
on one line which will pull all the lazy-jacks tight to the mast while sailing. 
I really, really hate the idea of lazy-jacks and/or a topping lift rubbing 
against my mainsail. Just the way I roll I guess.

That said, these days, having the ability to drop a mainsail/ fake it and cover 
it fairly quickly makes my wife very happy…

If you’re interested, I can send you a copy of the design.

Best,
Dave Godwin
1982 C&C 37 - Ronin
Reedville - Chesapeake Bay
Ronin’s Overdue Refit

On Dec 2, 2016, at 4:29 PM, Graham Young via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

I'll third the sentiments of Marek and Kevin.  I have a Stack Pack/Lazy Jack 
set-up and it is really nice equipment, but if I had it to do over again I 
would probably just get the lazy jacks and save the money for the pack.

My lazy jacks turn on blocks on the spreaders and the lines then run to turning 
blocks at the base of the mast and then run back to the cockpit.  So the jacks 
can be loosened from the cockpit and allowed to dangle near the mast when 
raising the main/sailing and then pulled tight when it is time to lower the 
main.  They also have the option for someone to go forward and clip them down.

Graham Young
S/V Spellbound
1981 C&C 32


On Friday, December 2, 2016 3:47 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

btw. it is enough to move “away” (to the mast) only one side of the lazy jacks 
for hoisting the main. If you move the starboard side, you steer a bit off the 
wind (wind from the port bow) and the sail does not touch them.

Marek

From: Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2016 15:10
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Kevin Driscoll
Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection

I concur with Marek. I have a stack pack and would personally prefer a simple 
set of lazyjacks and a traditional mainsail cover.

On the 42' boat I race on, we keep the lazy jacks "away" forward by the goose 
neck. Therefore, when raising the main they do not get in the way of the 
battens. Before dropping, we deploy the lazy jacks "Up" drop the main, and deal 
with flaking and sail ties back at the dock. The lazy jacks are put "away" 
again before we put the sail cover on.

I follow roughly the same procedure on our boat with our stack pack. I 
personally never understood people trying to raise their batten'd main with the 
stack pack or lazy jacks deployed. 2 out of 3 times you are going to catch at 
least one batten and potentially damage your main or at least cause unnecessary 
chafe/wear.

It is possible to set up lazy jacks with bungee and lines led to the cockpit 
for those with reduced mobility or the lazy among us. I wouldn't find it 
necessary unless I were hoisting and dousing the main multiple times in a day, 
say as in a charter situation where you were taking people out every few hours.

Two cents.

Kevin
PDX


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Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection - now lazy jacks

[Tortuga via CnC-List]

Good Old Boat and Brion Toss both have good advice re lazy jacks

http://www.goodoldboat.com/reader_services/articles/tamers.php

http://threesheetsnw.com/blog/2011/12/brion-toss-putting-convience-into-lazy-jacks/

Derek Kennedy
SV Tortuga, 30 mk1
Ballantyne's Cove, NS
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Stus-List Sail Flaking

[Jim Eagon via CnC-List]

 in the way of 
>>> the battens. Before dropping, we deploy the lazy jacks "Up" drop the main, 
>>> and deal with flaking and sail ties back at the dock. The lazy jacks are 
>>> put "away" again before we put the sail cover on.
>>> 
>>> I follow roughly the same procedure on our boat with our stack pack. I 
>>> personally never understood people trying to raise their batten'd main with 
>>> the stack pack or lazy jacks deployed. 2 out of 3 times you are going to 
>>> catch at least one batten and potentially damage your main or at least 
>>> cause unnecessary chafe/wear.
>>> 
>>> It is possible to set up lazy jacks with bungee and lines led to the 
>>> cockpit for those with reduced mobility or the lazy among us. I wouldn't 
>>> find it necessary unless I were hoisting and dousing the main multiple 
>>> times in a day, say as in a charter situation where you were taking people 
>>> out every few hours.
>>> 
>>> Two cents.
>>> 
>>> Kevin
>>> PDX
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> 
>>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you 
>>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>> 
>>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> 
>>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you 
>>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>> 
>>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>> 
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>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
>> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
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> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 16:04:50 -0800
> From: Tom Buscaglia 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List  Short handed sailing; sail selection - now lazy
>jacks
> Message-ID: <8df3aebe-e46a-4669-abdb-8d9d34c0e...@sv-alera.com>
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> In boom furling.  Mike drop!
> 
> Typoed from my iPhone
> 
> Tom Buscaglia
> Alera 1990 C&C 37+/40
> Vashon Island WA
> O 206.463.9200
> C 305.409.3660
> Skype - thombusc
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 2, 2016, at 3:51 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
>> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 15:50:12 -0800
>> From: "Larry" 
>> To: 
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Short handed sailing; sail selection - now lazy
>>   jacks
>> Message-ID:
>>   
>> 
>> 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> David
>> 
>> I have a system that is very similar to E Z  jack system and it is great. I 
>> store it when underway and only deploy it when I am ready to lower the sail.
>> 
>> I tried their website, but there seems to be a problem with their site.
>> 
>> I can send you a couple of pdf?s with the design and how to set it up. I 
>> just replaced all the line to mine. 
>> 
>> A real easy system to maintain and use.
>> 
>> Larry
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dave 
>> Godwin via CnC-List
>> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2016 3:32 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 19:15:52 -0500
> From: "Stu" 
> To: "C&C Email List" 
> Subject: Stus-List Lazy Jack System
> Message-ID: <14D5FE43EFCE40CA9218E019D633A908@stusacer>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> http://mtrack.me/tracking/raWzMz50paMkCGZmZGx1BGt1BGHzMKWjqzA2pzSaqaR9ZwH2ZGDjBGp1Way2LKu2pG0kZGNlAQNkZGp0Z1x
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> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2016 01:08