Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Danny — the e Series has what Raymarine calls Hybrid Touch, where you have a 
touchscreen along with hard controls to manage the MFD.  The a Series is 
touchscreen ONLY; there are no hard controls with the exception of the on/off 
switch.

All the Raymarine MFDs should work with the same set of tablets/smartphones, as 
they all use the same firmware/OS.  Then the Raymarine app for the mobile 
device does the work locally.  The compatibility list for the e Series probably 
hasn’t been updated as recently as the a Series, as the a Series is newer.

CHIRP may be an advantage if you’re planning on fishing a lot…   :^)

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Dec 28, 2015, at 11:41 AM, Danny Haughey via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello again,  
> 
> I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on this package but I notice a similar 
> package with the A78 for $110 more. 
> 
> Can anyone help with the differences and benefits of one over the other fur a 
> sail boat! 
> 
> I see the a78 has that chirp technology and seems compatible with more 
> tablets and smart phones than just the apple reference of the e7D.
> 
> Thanks for any insights
> Danny

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Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

FWIW, the touchscreen does not work with full finger gloves and is not as
good as an IPad touchscreen. Also, it is hard to touch the right spot in a
sea. I have the e7.  I did not buy a Garmin due to the lack of a joystick.

Joel

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Danny — the e Series has what Raymarine calls Hybrid Touch, where you have
> a touchscreen along with hard controls to manage the MFD.  The a Series is
> touchscreen ONLY; there are no hard controls with the exception of the
> on/off switch.
>
> All the Raymarine MFDs should work with the same set of
> tablets/smartphones, as they all use the same firmware/OS.  Then the
> Raymarine app for the mobile device does the work locally.  The
> compatibility list for the e Series probably hasn’t been updated as
> recently as the a Series, as the a Series is newer.
>
> CHIRP may be an advantage if you’re planning on fishing a lot…   :^)
>
> — Fred
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>
> On Dec 28, 2015, at 11:41 AM, Danny Haughey via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Hello again,
>
> I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on this package but I notice a
> similar package with the A78 for $110 more.
>
> Can anyone help with the differences and benefits of one over the other
> fur a sail boat!
>
> I see the a78 has that chirp technology and seems compatible with more
> tablets and smart phones than just the apple reference of the e7D.
>
> Thanks for any insights
> Danny
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
___

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Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

[Tim Goodyear via CnC-List]

Fred, thank you for that summary - I've been trying to work out what the
differences between the Raymarine models amount to in the real world.
Would you care to expand your descriptions to include the "c" and "es"
ranges too?

Thanks!

Tim

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Danny — the e Series has what Raymarine calls Hybrid Touch, where you have
> a touchscreen along with hard controls to manage the MFD.  The a Series is
> touchscreen ONLY; there are no hard controls with the exception of the
> on/off switch.
>
> All the Raymarine MFDs should work with the same set of
> tablets/smartphones, as they all use the same firmware/OS.  Then the
> Raymarine app for the mobile device does the work locally.  The
> compatibility list for the e Series probably hasn’t been updated as
> recently as the a Series, as the a Series is newer.
>
> CHIRP may be an advantage if you’re planning on fishing a lot…   :^)
>
> — Fred
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>
> On Dec 28, 2015, at 11:41 AM, Danny Haughey via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Hello again,
>
> I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on this package but I notice a
> similar package with the A78 for $110 more.
>
> Can anyone help with the differences and benefits of one over the other
> fur a sail boat!
>
> I see the a78 has that chirp technology and seems compatible with more
> tablets and smart phones than just the apple reference of the e7D.
>
> Thanks for any insights
> Danny
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
___

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Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOW FUEL CHARACTERISTICS

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

The geek in me just has to jump in here with some technical information. So 
here goes:

 

Yes, Rick, vaporized diesel will blow up like vaporized gasoline.

 

And Yes, Patrick, diesel does not vaporize easily. And is a lot less likely to 
support a flame than Gasoline as well.

 

The flash point (lowest temperature at which a liquid starts to evaporate) of 
Gasoline is -45 to -50 degrees F (-60 C, I think). The flash point of #2 diesel 
is 126 F (52 C). Biodiesel, BTW, is about 225 F so if you use B10 or B15 in 
your boat the flash point of the fuel would be higher.

 

The ignition concentration of a fuel vapor is the percent of fuel vs air that 
will support ignition. Too low a concentration or too high a concentration and 
you get no fire. That is why (if you are very lucky and not too bright, you can 
throw a lit match into a bowl of gasoline and nothing happens. For gasoline the 
range is 1.4% to 7.6%.  Diesel is pretty similar at 0.6% to 7.5%.

 

The ignition point (temperature at which it will start burning) of gas and 
diesel are also very similar. Gas is 475 F, and diesel is 494 F.

 

But gasoline is much more volatile, and at much lower temperatures. So you are 
likely to find gasoline vapor vs. diesel vapor.  Any fuel leak at above -45 F 
will result in gasoline vapor. A diesel leak will just make a  puddle unless 
the temperature is above 126 F. Yes, it would be a smelly puddle, but your nose 
can sense vapor concentrations far below the concentration that would support 
ignition.

 

Since the density of the gasoline vapor is about 2.0 (air is by definition 1.0) 
at standard temperature and pressure (70 F and sea level), the combustible 
vapor sinks to the bottom of your bilge. Diesel vapor would do the same thing, 
except a measurable concentration of diesel vapor could not exist at STP. Even 
high pressure diesel forced out of a pinhole leak in one of your injector lines 
is more likely to result in a smelly mist (too high a concentration to support 
ignition) than in a combustible fuel vapor.

 

The flash point indicates when a liquid starts to evaporate. But there is 
another specification called the fire point that is probably a better 
illustration of the relative risk from gasoline vs. diesel. The fire point is 
the temperature at which a liquid fuel will generate a vapor concentration high 
enough to support a flame for 5 seconds – which is enough time to cause 
significant evaporation of the liquid and start a real  fire (as opposed to a 
momentary flash). Liquid gasoline has a fire point of 30 F (-1 C), while liquid 
diesel is 154 F (68 C).

 

So unless you are boating in some really ridiculous heat, you are unlikely to 
get a fire from diesel fuel. Lots of smell – which may make a blower to 
ventilate the engine spaces very desirable – but a fire is not a high 
probablility event.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Patrick 
Davin via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 10:43 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Patrick Davin 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki

 

Diesel doesn't vaporize easily, unlike gasoline. That's one of its big 
advantages on boats, that it's non-volatile. It's good practice to shut down 
the engine at the fuel dock anyway, but they're probably asking that more as a 
general policy due to the gasoline boats they fill (or in case some gasoline 
vapors wafted over to your boat). 

 

The flash point (vaporization temp) of diesel is 126 F: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_point#Examples

 

There's a good writeup on engine blowers here: 
http://www.unitedmarine.net/blog/index.php/2013/01/30/who-needs-engine-room-blowers/

 

On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 6:09 AM, mailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

-- Forwarded message --
From: Rick Rohwer mailto:rickroh...@gmail.com> >
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
Cc: 
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 22:16:22 -0800
Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki

I am pretty sure vaporized diesel will blow up like gasoline vapor.  I know 
vaporized cooking fat will.  Don’t most of the fuel docks ask you to shut down 
the engine and run the fan while fueling? 

 

I had never thought of it as an air supply for the engine.  

 

Rick

Paikea 37+

Poulsbo, WA

 

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Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Sure!  The eS Series is the newest MFD from Raymarine, and is basically an 
updated, more powerful version of the e Series, with both touchscreen and hard 
controls.  I would definitely recommend the eS over the e if you’re looking to 
buy today, particularly at the 7” size where there’s not much difference at all 
in price.

The Raymarine c Series has NO touchscreen capability whatsoever; just buttons.  
I’d put it at the bottom of the heap in terms of power and functionality.

How’s that?   :^)

Happy New Year, all!

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Dec 29, 2015, at 11:22 AM, Tim Goodyear  > wrote:
> 
> Fred, thank you for that summary - I've been trying to work out what the 
> differences between the Raymarine models amount to in the real world.  Would 
> you care to expand your descriptions to include the "c" and "es" ranges too?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Tim

___

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Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOW FUEL CHARACTERISTICS

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Rick

Nothing about that sounds like a geek to me, just some very good
information based on sound knowledge, especially this part:

Lots of smell – which may make a blower to ventilate the engine spaces very
desirable

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, *Alianna*
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net


On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> The geek in me just has to jump in here with some technical information.
> So here goes:
>
>
>
> Yes, Rick, vaporized diesel will blow up like vaporized gasoline.
>
>
>
> And Yes, Patrick, diesel does not vaporize easily. And is a lot less
> likely to support a flame than Gasoline as well.
>
>
>
> The flash point (lowest temperature at which a liquid starts to evaporate)
> of Gasoline is -45 to -50 degrees F (-60 C, I think). The flash point of #2
> diesel is 126 F (52 C). Biodiesel, BTW, is about 225 F so if you use B10 or
> B15 in your boat the flash point of the fuel would be higher.
>
>
>
> The ignition concentration of a fuel vapor is the percent of fuel vs air
> that will support ignition. Too low a concentration or too high a
> concentration and you get no fire. That is why (if you are very lucky and
> not too bright, you can throw a lit match into a bowl of gasoline and
> nothing happens. For gasoline the range is 1.4% to 7.6%.  Diesel is pretty
> similar at 0.6% to 7.5%.
>
>
>
> The ignition point (temperature at which it will start burning) of gas and
> diesel are also very similar. Gas is 475 F, and diesel is 494 F.
>
>
>
> But gasoline is much more volatile, and at much lower temperatures. So you
> are likely to find gasoline vapor vs. diesel vapor.  Any fuel leak at above
> -45 F will result in gasoline vapor. A diesel leak will just make a  puddle
> unless the temperature is above 126 F. Yes, it would be a smelly puddle,
> but your nose can sense vapor concentrations far below the concentration
> that would support ignition.
>
>
>
> Since the density of the gasoline vapor is about 2.0 (air is by definition
> 1.0) at standard temperature and pressure (70 F and sea level), the
> combustible vapor sinks to the bottom of your bilge. Diesel vapor would do
> the same thing, except a measurable concentration of diesel vapor could not
> exist at STP. Even high pressure diesel forced out of a pinhole leak in one
> of your injector lines is more likely to result in a smelly mist (too high
> a concentration to support ignition) than in a combustible fuel vapor.
>
>
>
> The flash point indicates when a liquid starts to evaporate. But there is
> another specification called the fire point that is probably a better
> illustration of the relative risk from gasoline vs. diesel. The fire point
> is the temperature at which a liquid fuel will generate a vapor
> concentration high enough to support a flame for 5 seconds – which is
> enough time to cause significant evaporation of the liquid and start a
> real  fire (as opposed to a momentary flash). Liquid gasoline has a fire
> point of 30 F (-1 C), while liquid diesel is 154 F (68 C).
>
>
>
> So unless you are boating in some really ridiculous heat, you are unlikely
> to get a fire from diesel fuel. Lots of smell – which may make a blower to
> ventilate the engine spaces very desirable – but a fire is not a high
> probablility event.
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick
> Davin via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Monday, December 28, 2015 10:43 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Patrick Davin 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki
>
>
>
> Diesel doesn't vaporize easily, unlike gasoline. That's one of its big
> advantages on boats, that it's non-volatile. It's good practice to shut
> down the engine at the fuel dock anyway, but they're probably asking that
> more as a general policy due to the gasoline boats they fill (or in case
> some gasoline vapors wafted over to your boat).
>
>
>
> The flash point (vaporization temp) of diesel is 126 F:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_point#Examples
>
>
>
> There's a good writeup on engine blowers here:
> http://www.unitedmarine.net/blog/index.php/2013/01/30/who-needs-engine-room-blowers/
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 6:09 AM,  wrote:
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Rick Rohwer 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc:
> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 22:16:22 -0800
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki
>
> I am pretty sure vaporized diesel will blow up like gasoline vapor.  I
> know vaporized cooking fat will.  Don’t most of the fuel docks ask you to
> shut down the engine and run the fan while fueling?
>
>
>
> I had never thought of it as an air supply for the engine.
>
>
>
> Rick
>
> Paikea 37+
>
> Poulsbo, WA
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go

Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOW FUEL CHARACTERISTICS

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

The typical diesel fire scenario is a high pressure fuel leak spraying on a red 
hot exhaust or turbo component.

Joe
Coquina


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight 
veinot via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:12 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: dwight veinot
Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOW FUEL 
CHARACTERISTICS

Rick
Nothing about that sounds like a geek to me, just some very good information 
based on sound knowledge, especially this part:

Lots of smell – which may make a blower to ventilate the engine spaces very 
desirable

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net


On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
The geek in me just has to jump in here with some technical information. So 
here goes:

Yes, Rick, vaporized diesel will blow up like vaporized gasoline.

And Yes, Patrick, diesel does not vaporize easily. And is a lot less likely to 
support a flame than Gasoline as well.

The flash point (lowest temperature at which a liquid starts to evaporate) of 
Gasoline is -45 to -50 degrees F (-60 C, I think). The flash point of #2 diesel 
is 126 F (52 C). Biodiesel, BTW, is about 225 F so if you use B10 or B15 in 
your boat the flash point of the fuel would be higher.

The ignition concentration of a fuel vapor is the percent of fuel vs air that 
will support ignition. Too low a concentration or too high a concentration and 
you get no fire. That is why (if you are very lucky and not too bright, you can 
throw a lit match into a bowl of gasoline and nothing happens. For gasoline the 
range is 1.4% to 7.6%.  Diesel is pretty similar at 0.6% to 7.5%.

The ignition point (temperature at which it will start burning) of gas and 
diesel are also very similar. Gas is 475 F, and diesel is 494 F.

But gasoline is much more volatile, and at much lower temperatures. So you are 
likely to find gasoline vapor vs. diesel vapor.  Any fuel leak at above -45 F 
will result in gasoline vapor. A diesel leak will just make a  puddle unless 
the temperature is above 126 F. Yes, it would be a smelly puddle, but your nose 
can sense vapor concentrations far below the concentration that would support 
ignition.

Since the density of the gasoline vapor is about 2.0 (air is by definition 1.0) 
at standard temperature and pressure (70 F and sea level), the combustible 
vapor sinks to the bottom of your bilge. Diesel vapor would do the same thing, 
except a measurable concentration of diesel vapor could not exist at STP. Even 
high pressure diesel forced out of a pinhole leak in one of your injector lines 
is more likely to result in a smelly mist (too high a concentration to support 
ignition) than in a combustible fuel vapor.

The flash point indicates when a liquid starts to evaporate. But there is 
another specification called the fire point that is probably a better 
illustration of the relative risk from gasoline vs. diesel. The fire point is 
the temperature at which a liquid fuel will generate a vapor concentration high 
enough to support a flame for 5 seconds – which is enough time to cause 
significant evaporation of the liquid and start a real  fire (as opposed to a 
momentary flash). Liquid gasoline has a fire point of 30 F (-1 C), while liquid 
diesel is 154 F (68 C).

So unless you are boating in some really ridiculous heat, you are unlikely to 
get a fire from diesel fuel. Lots of smell – which may make a blower to 
ventilate the engine spaces very desirable – but a fire is not a high 
probablility event.

Rick Brass
Washington, NC




From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On 
Behalf Of Patrick Davin via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 10:43 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Patrick Davin mailto:jda...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki

Diesel doesn't vaporize easily, unlike gasoline. That's one of its big 
advantages on boats, that it's non-volatile. It's good practice to shut down 
the engine at the fuel dock anyway, but they're probably asking that more as a 
general policy due to the gasoline boats they fill (or in case some gasoline 
vapors wafted over to your boat).

The flash point (vaporization temp) of diesel is 126 F:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_point#Examples

There's a good writeup on engine blowers here: 
http://www.unitedmarine.net/blog/index.php/2013/01/30/who-needs-engine-room-blowers/

On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 6:09 AM, 
mailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
-- Forwarded message --
From: Rick Rohwer mailto:rickroh...@gmail.com>>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc:
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 22:16:22 -0800
Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki
I am pretty sure vaporized diesel will blow up like ga

Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

I believe the C series units also rely on NMEA 0183 networking language where 
A, E series and newer will be NMEA 2000 and can network more readily with 
peripherals such as wind, speed, depth, and autopilot.  I’d check to see what’s 
on your boat with regards to the peripherals and that may make a difference in 
your decision making process.  Don’t try to mix and match instrument brands or 
operating language otherwise you will spend all your sailing time trying to 
make the instruments talk to each other and at best, functionality will be 
limited.

Chuck Gilchrest

S/V Half Magic

1975 25 Mk 1

 

S/V Orion

1983 35 Landfall

Padanaram, MA

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick G 
Street via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:03 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Frederick G Street 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

 

Sure!  The eS Series is the newest MFD from Raymarine, and is basically an 
updated, more powerful version of the e Series, with both touchscreen and hard 
controls.  I would definitely recommend the eS over the e if you’re looking to 
buy today, particularly at the 7” size where there’s not much difference at all 
in price.

 

The Raymarine c Series has NO touchscreen capability whatsoever; just buttons.  
I’d put it at the bottom of the heap in terms of power and functionality.

 

How’s that?   :^)

 

Happy New Year, all!

 

— Fred


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

 

On Dec 29, 2015, at 11:22 AM, Tim Goodyear mailto:timg...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Fred, thank you for that summary - I've been trying to work out what the 
differences between the Raymarine models amount to in the real world.  Would 
you care to expand your descriptions to include the "c" and "es" ranges too?

 

Thanks!

 

Tim

 

___

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Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

[Headgorilla via CnC-List]

Thanks for discussing the Raymarine equipment, I am going into the NY boat show 
next week to see my electronics people and probably but a package due to all 
the rebates and discounts they offer, so I appreciate your experience on this 
subjectI am listening.
 
One Question: where the best spot to mount the Radar antenna, on the Mast? or 
off a pole on the stern?
 
Mike Dolan
1979 34' C&C "Skywalker"
Southold, NY
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Chuck Gilchrest 
Sent: Tue, Dec 29, 2015 2:15 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again



I believe the C series units also rely on NMEA 0183 networking language where 
A, E series and newer will be NMEA 2000 and can network more readily with 
peripherals such as wind, speed, depth, and autopilot.  I’d check to see what’s 
on your boat with regards to the peripherals and that may make a difference in 
your decision making process.  Don’t try to mix and match instrument brands or 
operating language otherwise you will spend all your sailing time trying to 
make the instruments talk to each other and at best, functionality will be 
limited.
Chuck Gilchrest
S/V Half Magic
1975 25 Mk 1
 
S/V Orion
1983 35 Landfall
Padanaram, MA
 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick G 
Street via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:03 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Frederick G Street 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

 
Sure!  The eS Series is the newest MFD from Raymarine, and is basically an 
updated, more powerful version of the e Series, with both touchscreen and hard 
controls.  I would definitely recommend the eS over the e if you’re looking to 
buy today, particularly at the 7” size where there’s not much difference at all 
in price.

 

The Raymarine c Series has NO touchscreen capability whatsoever; just buttons.  
I’d put it at the bottom of the heap in terms of power and functionality.

 

How’s that?   :^)

 

Happy New Year, all!

 

— Fred


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

 


On Dec 29, 2015, at 11:22 AM, Tim Goodyear  wrote:

 

Fred, thank you for that summary - I've been trying to work out what the 
differences between the Raymarine models amount to in the real world.  Would 
you care to expand your descriptions to include the "c" and "es" ranges too?

 

Thanks!

 

Tim


 


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Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

[Tim Goodyear via CnC-List]

And to add another question - how different are the HD vs regular and 24"
vs 18" versions in real-world use (assuming you're not fishing and don't
need the 'bird view' function)?  This is great information - thank you!

Tim

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Headgorilla via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Thanks for discussing the Raymarine equipment, I am going into the NY boat
> show next week to see my electronics people and probably but a package due
> to all the rebates and discounts they offer, so I appreciate your
> experience on this subjectI am listening.
>
> One Question: where the best spot to mount the Radar antenna, on the Mast?
> or off a pole on the stern?
>
> Mike Dolan
> 1979 34' C&C "Skywalker"
> Southold, NY
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
> To: cnc-list 
> Cc: Chuck Gilchrest 
> Sent: Tue, Dec 29, 2015 2:15 pm
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again
>
> I believe the C series units also rely on NMEA 0183 networking language
> where A, E series and newer will be NMEA 2000 and can network more readily
> with peripherals such as wind, speed, depth, and autopilot.  I’d check to
> see what’s on your boat with regards to the peripherals and that may make a
> difference in your decision making process.  Don’t try to mix and match
> instrument brands or operating language otherwise you will spend all your
> sailing time trying to make the instruments talk to each other and at best,
> functionality will be limited.
> Chuck Gilchrest
> S/V Half Magic
> 1975 25 Mk 1
>
> S/V Orion
> 1983 35 Landfall
> Padanaram, MA
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Frederick G Street via
> CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:03 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Frederick G Street 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again
>
> Sure!  The eS Series is the newest MFD from Raymarine, and is basically an
> updated, more powerful version of the e Series, with both touchscreen and
> hard controls.  I would definitely recommend the eS over the e if you’re
> looking to buy today, particularly at the 7” size where there’s not much
> difference at all in price.
>
> The Raymarine c Series has NO touchscreen capability whatsoever; just
> buttons.  I’d put it at the bottom of the heap in terms of power and
> functionality.
>
> How’s that?   :^)
>
> Happy New Year, all!
>
> — Fred
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V *Oceanis* (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>
>
> On Dec 29, 2015, at 11:22 AM, Tim Goodyear  wrote:
>
> Fred, thank you for that summary - I've been trying to work out what the
> differences between the Raymarine models amount to in the real world.
> Would you care to expand your descriptions to include the "c" and "es"
> ranges too?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Tim
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
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> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Mike,

As I understand it, that’s one of those “what’s more important to you” choices. 
The radar will “see” more at the top of the mast, but having that much weight 
aloft will affect sailing performance. 

Personally, I’d go with the stern pole. That way, if you need to fix anything, 
it doesn’t involve a mast climb. 

Going to the NY show as well on the Sunday. Hope to run into you and other 
C&C’ers. 

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 









> On Dec 29, 2015, at 2:23 PM, Headgorilla via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for discussing the Raymarine equipment, I am going into the NY boat 
> show next week to see my electronics people and probably but a package due to 
> all the rebates and discounts they offer, so I appreciate your experience on 
> this subjectI am listening.
>  
> One Question: where the best spot to mount the Radar antenna, on the Mast? or 
> off a pole on the stern?
>  
> Mike Dolan
> 1979 34' C&C "Skywalker"
> Southold, NY
>  
>  
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Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

Mike,
My experience with mast mounted radar is not favorable.  Close in targets tend 
to drop off (such as small boats and channel markers in the fog) as the radar 
tends to see above those objects.  The mast mount is also hell on an 
overlapping jib..
Chuck Gilchrest

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2015, at 2:23 PM, Headgorilla via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for discussing the Raymarine equipment, I am going into the NY boat 
> show next week to see my electronics people and probably but a package due to 
> all the rebates and discounts they offer, so I appreciate your experience on 
> this subjectI am listening.
>  
> One Question: where the best spot to mount the Radar antenna, on the Mast? or 
> off a pole on the stern?
>  
> Mike Dolan
> 1979 34' C&C "Skywalker"
> Southold, NY
>  
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
> To: cnc-list 
> Cc: Chuck Gilchrest 
> Sent: Tue, Dec 29, 2015 2:15 pm
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again
> 
> I believe the C series units also rely on NMEA 0183 networking language where 
> A, E series and newer will be NMEA 2000 and can network more readily with 
> peripherals such as wind, speed, depth, and autopilot.  I’d check to see 
> what’s on your boat with regards to the peripherals and that may make a 
> difference in your decision making process.  Don’t try to mix and match 
> instrument brands or operating language otherwise you will spend all your 
> sailing time trying to make the instruments talk to each other and at best, 
> functionality will be limited.
> Chuck Gilchrest
> S/V Half Magic
> 1975 25 Mk 1
>  
> S/V Orion
> 1983 35 Landfall
> Padanaram, MA
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick 
> G Street via CnC-List
> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:03 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Frederick G Street 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again
>  
> Sure!  The eS Series is the newest MFD from Raymarine, and is basically an 
> updated, more powerful version of the e Series, with both touchscreen and 
> hard controls.  I would definitely recommend the eS over the e if you’re 
> looking to buy today, particularly at the 7” size where there’s not much 
> difference at all in price.
>  
> The Raymarine c Series has NO touchscreen capability whatsoever; just 
> buttons.  I’d put it at the bottom of the heap in terms of power and 
> functionality.
>  
> How’s that?   :^)
>  
> Happy New Year, all!
>  
> — Fred
> 
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>  
> On Dec 29, 2015, at 11:22 AM, Tim Goodyear  wrote:
>  
> Fred, thank you for that summary - I've been trying to work out what the 
> differences between the Raymarine models amount to in the real world.  Would 
> you care to expand your descriptions to include the "c" and "es" ranges too?
>  
> Thanks!
>  
> Tim
>  
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> 
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> 
___

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Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

A couple of comments on radar: a mast-mounted radar will “see” vessels further 
away, including over the horizon compared to deck-level.  But as Chuck 
mentioned, it will not see things in the water closer to the boat, as there’s 
about a 12.5° vertical beam width above/below horizontal on most marine radars; 
so as a target gets within several dozen yards of the radar, it’ll be too low 
to be picked up.  Using a stern pole can help with this close-in imaging of 
targets; but you lose the distant ability of having the dome up high.

There is also a danger with stern pole mounting of having the radar beam hit 
deck crew; stand too close to a high-power radar beam, and you can develop some 
nasty medical issues like vision loss.  This is an issue I have with power 
boaters who mount the dome right on their hard top (usually a large open 
array…), then come into the dock on a clear sunny day with the radar merrily 
turning away.  The beam is pretty much at head-height for anyone standing on 
the dock, and it’s pretty easy to get a nice face full of microwave radiation 
at close range.

Chuck — as far as NME0183 vs NMEA2000 on the Raymarine a, c, e, and eS Series 
MFDs, ALL of them support NMEA2000.  See page 51 of the a-c-e Installation 
Manual.  The smallest versions of the a and c Series DO NOT have NMEA0183 
connections on them at all.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Dec 29, 2015, at 1:51 PM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Mike,
> My experience with mast mounted radar is not favorable.  Close in targets 
> tend to drop off (such as small boats and channel markers in the fog) as the 
> radar tends to see above those objects.  The mast mount is also hell on an 
> overlapping jib..
> Chuck Gilchrest
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 29, 2015, at 2:23 PM, Headgorilla via CnC-List  > wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for discussing the Raymarine equipment, I am going into the NY boat 
>> show next week to see my electronics people and probably but a package due 
>> to all the rebates and discounts they offer, so I appreciate your experience 
>> on this subjectI am listening.
>>  
>> One Question: where the best spot to mount the Radar antenna, on the Mast? 
>> or off a pole on the stern?
>>  
>> Mike Dolan
>> 1979 34' C&C "Skywalker"
>> Southold, NY
>>  
>>  
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List > >
>> To: cnc-list mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
>> Cc: Chuck Gilchrest > >
>> Sent: Tue, Dec 29, 2015 2:15 pm
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again
>> 
>> I believe the C series units also rely on NMEA 0183 networking language 
>> where A, E series and newer will be NMEA 2000 and can network more readily 
>> with peripherals such as wind, speed, depth, and autopilot.  I’d check to 
>> see what’s on your boat with regards to the peripherals and that may make a 
>> difference in your decision making process.  Don’t try to mix and match 
>> instrument brands or operating language otherwise you will spend all your 
>> sailing time trying to make the instruments talk to each other and at best, 
>> functionality will be limited.
>> Chuck Gilchrest
>> S/V Half Magic
>> 1975 25 Mk 1
>>  
>> S/V Orion
>> 1983 35 Landfall
>> Padanaram, MA
>>   <>
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
>> ] On Behalf Of Frederick G Street via 
>> CnC-List
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:03 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
>> Cc: Frederick G Street mailto:f...@postaudio.net>>
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again
>>  
>> Sure!  The eS Series is the newest MFD from Raymarine, and is basically an 
>> updated, more powerful version of the e Series, with both touchscreen and 
>> hard controls.  I would definitely recommend the eS over the e if you’re 
>> looking to buy today, particularly at the 7” size where there’s not much 
>> difference at all in price.
>>  
>> The Raymarine c Series has NO touchscreen capability whatsoever; just 
>> buttons.  I’d put it at the bottom of the heap in terms of power and 
>> functionality.
>>  
>> How’s that?   :^)
>>  
>> Happy New Year, all!
>>  
>> — Fred
>> 
>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>>  
>> On Dec 29, 2015, at 11:22 AM, Tim Goodyear > > wrote:
>>  
>> Fred, thank you for that summary - I've been trying to work out what the 
>> differences between the Raymarine models amount to in the real world.  Would 
>> you care to expand your descriptions to include the "c" and "es" ranges too?
>>  
>> Thanks!
>>  
>> Tim
>>  
>> ___
>> 
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com 
>> To ch

Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Tim — for most recreational boaters, you’re not going to be spending enough 
time on the radar to learn how to best use the return info on the HD radars.  I 
think that’s much more helpful in commercial and fishing situations, where 
you’re really diving much further into the radar data.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Dec 29, 2015, at 1:27 PM, Tim Goodyear via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> And to add another question - how different are the HD vs regular and 24" vs 
> 18" versions in real-world use (assuming you're not fishing and don't need 
> the 'bird view' function)?  This is great information - thank you!
> 
> Tim

___

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Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

[Headgorilla via CnC-List]

Thanks Guys,
 
I was thinking mast mount mostly to keep it away from passengers and crew, 
however I can see it as a possible pest on the mast as well.
 
I still have some time since we are wrapped up and on landI really 
appreciate the input
 
Mike
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Frederick G Street 
Sent: Tue, Dec 29, 2015 3:32 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again


A couple of comments on radar: a mast-mounted radar will “see” vessels further 
away, including over the horizon compared to deck-level.  But as Chuck 
mentioned, it will not see things in the water closer to the boat, as there’s 
about a 12.5° vertical beam width above/below horizontal on most marine radars; 
so as a target gets within several dozen yards of the radar, it’ll be too low 
to be picked up.  Using a stern pole can help with this close-in imaging of 
targets; but you lose the distant ability of having the dome up high.


There is also a danger with stern pole mounting of having the radar beam hit 
deck crew; stand too close to a high-power radar beam, and you can develop some 
nasty medical issues like vision loss.  This is an issue I have with power 
boaters who mount the dome right on their hard top (usually a large open 
array…), then come into the dock on a clear sunny day with the radar merrily 
turning away.  The beam is pretty much at head-height for anyone standing on 
the dock, and it’s pretty easy to get a nice face full of microwave radiation 
at close range.


Chuck — as far as NME0183 vs NMEA2000 on the Raymarine a, c, e, and eS Series 
MFDs, ALL of them support NMEA2000.  See page 51 of the a-c-e Installation 
Manual.  The smallest versions of the a and c Series DO NOT have NMEA0183 
connections on them at all.


— Fred


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(



On Dec 29, 2015, at 1:51 PM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
 wrote:


Mike,
My experience with mast mounted radar is not favorable.  Close in targets tend 
to drop off (such as small boats and channel markers in the fog) as the radar 
tends to see above those objects.  The mast mount is also hell on an 
overlapping jib..
Chuck Gilchrest

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 29, 2015, at 2:23 PM, Headgorilla via CnC-List  
wrote:



Thanks for discussing the Raymarine equipment, I am going into the NY boat show 
next week to see my electronics people and probably but a package due to all 
the rebates and discounts they offer, so I appreciate your experience on this 
subjectI am listening.
 
One Question: where the best spot to mount the Radar antenna, on the Mast? or 
off a pole on the stern?
 
Mike Dolan
1979 34' C&C "Skywalker"
Southold, NY
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Chuck Gilchrest 
Sent: Tue, Dec 29, 2015 2:15 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again



I believe the C series units also rely on NMEA 0183 networking language where 
A, E series and newer will be NMEA 2000 and can network more readily with 
peripherals such as wind, speed, depth, and autopilot.  I’d check to see what’s 
on your boat with regards to the peripherals and that may make a difference in 
your decision making process.  Don’t try to mix and match instrument brands or 
operating language otherwise you will spend all your sailing time trying to 
make the instruments talk to each other and at best, functionality will be 
limited.
Chuck Gilchrest
S/V Half Magic
1975 25 Mk 1
 
S/V Orion
1983 35 Landfall
Padanaram, MA
 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick G 
Street via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:03 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Frederick G Street 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

 
Sure!  The eS Series is the newest MFD from Raymarine, and is basically an 
updated, more powerful version of the e Series, with both touchscreen and hard 
controls.  I would definitely recommend the eS over the e if you’re looking to 
buy today, particularly at the 7” size where there’s not much difference at all 
in price.

 

The Raymarine c Series has NO touchscreen capability whatsoever; just buttons.  
I’d put it at the bottom of the heap in terms of power and functionality.

 

How’s that?   :^)

 

Happy New Year, all!

 

— Fred


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

 


On Dec 29, 2015, at 11:22 AM, Tim Goodyear  wrote:

 

Fred, thank you for that summary - I've been trying to work out what the 
differences between the Raymarine models amount to in the real world.  Would 
you care to expand your descriptions to include the "c" and "es" ranges too?

 

Thanks!

 

Tim


 


___

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To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -

Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

Mike,

One other option for mounting the radar is to utilize a  gimbaled backstay 
mount , which allows the mount to be sufficiently high above head height and 
has the advantage of self levelling the dome to orient with the horizon.  It is 
a less invasive mount that doesn’t require additional holes to be drilled in 
the mast and is far simpler than installing a separate mast to be supported at 
the stern of the boat.  If you unstep your mast in the winter, a back stay 
mount would require the radar dome be reset on the mount each time you 
re-commission the boat and the gimballed mounts tend to be pricey.  Another 
issue of mounting your dome behind the mast, either on the backstay or on a 
separate mast, is that the sailboat mast will be viewed as a target on the 
readout and can cause a blind spot in the center of your direction of travel.  
Not ideal..

 

  I’d say that here on the East Coast, the majority of radar use occurs when 
motoring in fog or during nighttime when visibility is low.  Those that sail in 
heavily travelled shipping lanes tend to want to know what is on the horizon as 
well as what is in close.  If you use the radar while sailing in breeze,  
keeping the dome level creates fewer blind spots due to a tilted dome looking 
down at the water on the leeward side of the boat and the windward side 
pointing up into the sky.

 

I’ve also heard that the 3G and 4G domes by Simrad/B&G/Lowrance use a different 
band of radar waves that are supposedly less harmful if mounted at head level 
on the boat.  But perhaps I shouldn’t believe everything I read in the glossy 
magazines…

So again I’ve created more questions than answers…

Chuck Gilchrest

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Headgorilla 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 3:43 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Headgorilla 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

 

Thanks Guys,

 

I was thinking mast mount mostly to keep it away from passengers and crew, 
however I can see it as a possible pest on the mast as well.

 

I still have some time since we are wrapped up and on landI really 
appreciate the input

 

Mike

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
To: cnc-list mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: Frederick G Street mailto:f...@postaudio.net> >
Sent: Tue, Dec 29, 2015 3:32 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

A couple of comments on radar: a mast-mounted radar will “see” vessels further 
away, including over the horizon compared to deck-level.  But as Chuck 
mentioned, it will not see things in the water closer to the boat, as there’s 
about a 12.5° vertical beam width above/below horizontal on most marine radars; 
so as a target gets within several dozen yards of the radar, it’ll be too low 
to be picked up.  Using a stern pole can help with this close-in imaging of 
targets; but you lose the distant ability of having the dome up high. 

 

There is also a danger with stern pole mounting of having the radar beam hit 
deck crew; stand too close to a high-power radar beam, and you can develop some 
nasty medical issues like vision loss.  This is an issue I have with power 
boaters who mount the dome right on their hard top (usually a large open 
array…), then come into the dock on a clear sunny day with the radar merrily 
turning away.  The beam is pretty much at head-height for anyone standing on 
the dock, and it’s pretty easy to get a nice face full of microwave radiation 
at close range.

 

Chuck — as far as NME0183 vs NMEA2000 on the Raymarine a, c, e, and eS Series 
MFDs, ALL of them support NMEA2000.  See page 51 of the a-c-e Installation 
Manual.  The smallest versions of the a and c Series DO NOT have NMEA0183 
connections on them at all.

 

— Fred


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

 

On Dec 29, 2015, at 1:51 PM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

Mike,

My experience with mast mounted radar is not favorable.  Close in targets tend 
to drop off (such as small boats and channel markers in the fog) as the radar 
tends to see above those objects.  The mast mount is also hell on an 
overlapping jib..

Chuck Gilchrest

Sent from my iPhone


On Dec 29, 2015, at 2:23 PM, Headgorilla via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Thanks for discussing the Raymarine equipment, I am going into the NY boat show 
next week to see my electronics people and probably but a package due to all 
the rebates and discounts they offer, so I appreciate your experience on this 
subjectI am listening.

 

One Question: where the best spot to mount the Radar antenna, on the Mast? or 
off a pole on the stern?

 

Mike Dolan

1979 34' C&C "Skywalker"

Southold, NY

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

[Ahmet via CnC-List]

I have a mast mount because that is how my boat came, but would prefer a
high (12+ft) stern pole.
I had twice problems with my stern pole radar on my previous boat which I
was easily able to fix (broken belt, and water in the unit) which would
have been a major issue on the mast mount (at least for me).

For coastal cruising, I don't think I ever cared for anything farther that
5 miles.
For me, the main purpose for radar is other boats in the dark and fog, and
unlighted cans at night, which are all within a few miles. That is
 assuming that one has GPS and AIS.
Sometimes I use it to verify the GPS.
If one is sailing in areas where GPS charts are not as reliable, that may
be a different issue,
Ahmet
Boston, MA


On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Headgorilla via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Thanks Guys,
>
> I was thinking mast mount mostly to keep it away from passengers and crew,
> however I can see it as a possible pest on the mast as well.
>
> I still have some time since we are wrapped up and on landI really
> appreciate the input
>
> Mike
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
> To: cnc-list 
> Cc: Frederick G Street 
> Sent: Tue, Dec 29, 2015 3:32 pm
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again
>
> A couple of comments on radar: a mast-mounted radar will “see” vessels
> further away, including over the horizon compared to deck-level.  But as
> Chuck mentioned, it will not see things in the water closer to the boat, as
> there’s about a 12.5° vertical beam width above/below horizontal on most
> marine radars; so as a target gets within several dozen yards of the radar,
> it’ll be too low to be picked up.  Using a stern pole can help with this
> close-in imaging of targets; but you lose the distant ability of having the
> dome up high.
>
> There is also a danger with stern pole mounting of having the radar beam
> hit deck crew; stand too close to a high-power radar beam, and you can
> develop some nasty medical issues like vision loss.  This is an issue I
> have with power boaters who mount the dome right on their hard top (usually
> a large open array…), then come into the dock on a clear sunny day with the
> radar merrily turning away.  The beam is pretty much at head-height for
> anyone standing on the dock, and it’s pretty easy to get a nice face full
> of microwave radiation at close range.
>
> Chuck — as far as NME0183 vs NMEA2000 on the Raymarine a, c, e, and eS
> Series MFDs, ALL of them support NMEA2000.  See page 51 of the a-c-e
> Installation Manual.  The smallest versions of the a and c Series DO NOT
> have NMEA0183 connections on them at all.
>
> — Fred
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>
> On Dec 29, 2015, at 1:51 PM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Mike,
> My experience with mast mounted radar is not favorable.  Close in targets
> tend to drop off (such as small boats and channel markers in the fog) as
> the radar tends to see above those objects.  The mast mount is also hell on
> an overlapping jib..
> Chuck Gilchrest
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 29, 2015, at 2:23 PM, Headgorilla via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for discussing the Raymarine equipment, I am going into the NY boat
> show next week to see my electronics people and probably but a package due
> to all the rebates and discounts they offer, so I appreciate your
> experience on this subjectI am listening.
>
> One Question: where the best spot to mount the Radar antenna, on the Mast?
> or off a pole on the stern?
>
> Mike Dolan
> 1979 34' C&C "Skywalker"
> Southold, NY
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
> To: cnc-list 
> Cc: Chuck Gilchrest 
> Sent: Tue, Dec 29, 2015 2:15 pm
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again
>
> I believe the C series units also rely on NMEA 0183 networking language
> where A, E series and newer will be NMEA 2000 and can network more readily
> with peripherals such as wind, speed, depth, and autopilot.  I’d check to
> see what’s on your boat with regards to the peripherals and that may make a
> difference in your decision making process.  Don’t try to mix and match
> instrument brands or operating language otherwise you will spend all your
> sailing time trying to make the instruments talk to each other and at best,
> functionality will be limited.
> Chuck Gilchrest
> S/V Half Magic
> 1975 25 Mk 1
>
> S/V Orion
> 1983 35 Landfall
> Padanaram, MA
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *Frederick G Street via
> CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:03 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Frederick G Street 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again
>
> Sure!  The eS Series is the newest MFD from Raymarine, and is basically an
> updated, more powerful vers

Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

[David via CnC-List]

Mike,

Had the pole and it was ungainly looking.  Replaced it with a Questus gimball 
mount and love it.

David F. Risch
1981 40-2
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:51:04 -0500
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: csgilchr...@comcast.net

Mike,My experience with mast mounted radar is not favorable.  Close in targets 
tend to drop off (such as small boats and channel markers in the fog) as the 
radar tends to see above those objects.  The mast mount is also hell on an 
overlapping jib..Chuck Gilchrest

Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 29, 2015, at 2:23 PM, Headgorilla via CnC-List  
wrote:


Thanks for discussing the Raymarine equipment, I am going into the NY boat show 
next week to see my electronics people and probably but a package due to all 
the rebates and discounts they offer, so I appreciate your experience on this 
subjectI am listening.

 

One Question: where the best spot to mount the Radar antenna, on the Mast? or 
off a pole on the stern?

 

Mike Dolan

1979 34' C&C "Skywalker"

Southold, NY

 

 

-Original Message-

From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 

To: cnc-list 

Cc: Chuck Gilchrest 

Sent: Tue, Dec 29, 2015 2:15 pm

Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again









I believe the C series units also rely on NMEA 0183 networking language where 
A, E series and newer will be NMEA 2000 and can network more readily with 
peripherals such as wind, speed, depth, and autopilot.  I’d check to see what’s 
on your boat with regards to the peripherals and that may make a difference in 
your decision making process.  Don’t try to mix and match instrument brands or 
operating language otherwise you will spend all your sailing time trying to 
make the instruments talk to each other and at best, functionality will be 
limited.

Chuck Gilchrest

S/V Half Magic

1975 25 Mk 1

 

S/V Orion

1983 35 Landfall

Padanaram, MA

 



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick G 
Street via CnC-List

Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:03 PM

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com

Cc: Frederick G Street 

Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again



 

Sure!  The eS Series is the newest MFD from Raymarine, and is basically an 
updated, more powerful version of the e Series, with both touchscreen and hard 
controls.  I would definitely recommend the eS over the e if you’re looking to 
buy today, particularly at the 7” size where there’s not much difference at all 
in price.


 



The Raymarine c Series has NO touchscreen capability whatsoever; just buttons.  
I’d put it at the bottom of the heap in terms of power and functionality.



 



How’s that?   :^)



 



Happy New Year, all!



 



— Fred





Fred Street -- Minneapolis

S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(



 



On Dec 29, 2015, at 11:22 AM, Tim Goodyear  wrote:


 


Fred, thank you for that summary - I've been trying to work out what the 
differences between the Raymarine models amount to in the real world.  Would 
you care to expand your descriptions to include the "c" and "es" ranges too?


 



Thanks!



 



Tim




 






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Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL CHARACTERISTICS

[jtsails via CnC-List]

since no one else has brought it up what about all the other things we have 
on our boats that potentially dangerous. Like the gas tank for the dinghy, the 
propane for the stove, the odd can of mineral spirits or the admirals 
hairspray? We are surrounded by everyday things that could go boom! Every boat 
needs a blower that is properly installed and used!
James
Delaney
C&C 38 Mk11
Oriental, NC

From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 2:11 PM
To: mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL 
CHARACTERISTICS

The typical diesel fire scenario is a high pressure fuel leak spraying on a red 
hot exhaust or turbo component.

 

Joe

Coquina

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight 
veinot via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:12 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: dwight veinot
Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOW FUEL 
CHARACTERISTICS

 

Rick

Nothing about that sounds like a geek to me, just some very good information 
based on sound knowledge, especially this part:

Lots of smell – which may make a blower to ventilate the engine spaces very 
desirable




Dwight Veinot

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

d.ve...@bellaliant.net

 

 

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List 
 wrote:

The geek in me just has to jump in here with some technical information. So 
here goes:

 

Yes, Rick, vaporized diesel will blow up like vaporized gasoline.

 

And Yes, Patrick, diesel does not vaporize easily. And is a lot less likely to 
support a flame than Gasoline as well.

 

The flash point (lowest temperature at which a liquid starts to evaporate) of 
Gasoline is -45 to -50 degrees F (-60 C, I think). The flash point of #2 diesel 
is 126 F (52 C). Biodiesel, BTW, is about 225 F so if you use B10 or B15 in 
your boat the flash point of the fuel would be higher.

 

The ignition concentration of a fuel vapor is the percent of fuel vs air that 
will support ignition. Too low a concentration or too high a concentration and 
you get no fire. That is why (if you are very lucky and not too bright, you can 
throw a lit match into a bowl of gasoline and nothing happens. For gasoline the 
range is 1.4% to 7.6%.  Diesel is pretty similar at 0.6% to 7.5%.

 

The ignition point (temperature at which it will start burning) of gas and 
diesel are also very similar. Gas is 475 F, and diesel is 494 F.

 

But gasoline is much more volatile, and at much lower temperatures. So you are 
likely to find gasoline vapor vs. diesel vapor.  Any fuel leak at above -45 F 
will result in gasoline vapor. A diesel leak will just make a  puddle unless 
the temperature is above 126 F. Yes, it would be a smelly puddle, but your nose 
can sense vapor concentrations far below the concentration that would support 
ignition.

 

Since the density of the gasoline vapor is about 2.0 (air is by definition 1.0) 
at standard temperature and pressure (70 F and sea level), the combustible 
vapor sinks to the bottom of your bilge. Diesel vapor would do the same thing, 
except a measurable concentration of diesel vapor could not exist at STP. Even 
high pressure diesel forced out of a pinhole leak in one of your injector lines 
is more likely to result in a smelly mist (too high a concentration to support 
ignition) than in a combustible fuel vapor.

 

The flash point indicates when a liquid starts to evaporate. But there is 
another specification called the fire point that is probably a better 
illustration of the relative risk from gasoline vs. diesel. The fire point is 
the temperature at which a liquid fuel will generate a vapor concentration high 
enough to support a flame for 5 seconds – which is enough time to cause 
significant evaporation of the liquid and start a real  fire (as opposed to a 
momentary flash). Liquid gasoline has a fire point of 30 F (-1 C), while liquid 
diesel is 154 F (68 C).

 

So unless you are boating in some really ridiculous heat, you are unlikely to 
get a fire from diesel fuel. Lots of smell – which may make a blower to 
ventilate the engine spaces very desirable – but a fire is not a high 
probablility event.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Patrick 
Davin via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 10:43 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Patrick Davin 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki

 

Diesel doesn't vaporize easily, unlike gasoline. That's one of its big 
advantages on boats, that it's non-volatile. It's good practice to shut down 
the engine at the fuel dock anyway, but they're probably asking that more as a 
general policy due to the gasoline boats they fill (or in case some gasoline 
vapors wafted over to your boat). 

 

The flash point (vaporization temp) of diesel is 126 F: 

https://en.wikipedia.or

Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

Ok,  I just pulled the trigger on the e7D combo.   I have a bracket on the mast 
and I'll be using that.  From what I can tell the holes may just match up!  
I've never had radar before.  We do get fog though.  
ALL the rest of the instruments are raymarine so that's my choice here


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device Original message From: 
Ahmet via CnC-List  Date: 12/29/2015  4:59 PM  
(GMT-05:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Ahmet  Subject: 
Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again 
I have a mast mount because that is how my boat came, but would prefer a high 
(12+ft) stern pole.I had twice problems with my stern pole radar on my previous 
boat which I was easily able to fix (broken belt, and water in the unit) which 
would have been a major issue on the mast mount (at least for me).
For coastal cruising, I don't think I ever cared for anything farther that 5 
miles.For me, the main purpose for radar is other boats in the dark and fog, 
and unlighted cans at night, which are all within a few miles. That is  
assuming that one has GPS and AIS.Sometimes I use it to verify the GPS.If one 
is sailing in areas where GPS charts are not as reliable, that may be a 
different issue, AhmetBoston, MA

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Headgorilla via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Thanks Guys,

 

I was thinking mast mount mostly to keep it away from passengers and crew, 
however I can see it as a possible pest on the mast as well.

 

I still have some time since we are wrapped up and on landI really 
appreciate the input

 

Mike

 

 

-Original Message-

From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List 

To: cnc-list 

Cc: Frederick G Street 

Sent: Tue, Dec 29, 2015 3:32 pm

Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again







A couple of comments on radar: a mast-mounted radar will “see” vessels further 
away, including over the horizon compared to deck-level.  But as Chuck 
mentioned, it will not see things in the water closer to the boat, as there’s 
about a 12.5° vertical beam width above/below horizontal on most marine radars; 
so as a target gets within several dozen yards of the radar, it’ll be too low 
to be picked up.  Using a stern pole can help with this close-in imaging of 
targets; but you lose the distant ability of having the dome up high.




There is also a danger with stern pole mounting of having the radar beam hit 
deck crew; stand too close to a high-power radar beam, and you can develop some 
nasty medical issues like vision loss.  This is an issue I have with power 
boaters who mount the dome right on their hard top (usually a large open 
array…), then come into the dock on a clear sunny day with the radar merrily 
turning away.  The beam is pretty much at head-height for anyone standing on 
the dock, and it’s pretty easy to get a nice face full of microwave radiation 
at close range.





Chuck — as far as NME0183 vs NMEA2000 on the Raymarine a, c, e, and eS Series 
MFDs, ALL of them support NMEA2000.  See page 51 of the a-c-e Installation 
Manual.  The smallest versions of the a and c Series DO NOT have NMEA0183 
connections on them at all.





— Fred





Fred Street -- Minneapolis

S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(







On Dec 29, 2015, at 1:51 PM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
 wrote:



Mike,

My experience with mast mounted radar is not favorable.  Close in targets tend 
to drop off (such as small boats and channel markers in the fog) as the radar 
tends to see above those objects.  The mast mount is also hell on an 
overlapping jib..

Chuck Gilchrest



Sent from my iPhone



On Dec 29, 2015, at 2:23 PM, Headgorilla via CnC-List  
wrote:






Thanks for discussing the Raymarine equipment, I am going into the NY boat show 
next week to see my electronics people and probably but a package due to all 
the rebates and discounts they offer, so I appreciate your experience on this 
subjectI am listening.

 

One Question: where the best spot to mount the Radar antenna, on the Mast? or 
off a pole on the stern?

 

Mike Dolan

1979 34' C&C "Skywalker"

Southold, NY

 

 

-Original Message-

From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 

To: cnc-list 

Cc: Chuck Gilchrest 

Sent: Tue, Dec 29, 2015 2:15 pm

Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again







I believe the C series units also rely on NMEA 0183 networking language where 
A, E series and newer will be NMEA 2000 and can network more readily with 
peripherals such as wind, speed, depth, and autopilot.  I’d check to see what’s 
on your boat with regards to the peripherals and that may make a difference in 
your decision making process.  Don’t try to mix and match instrument brands or 
operating language otherwise you will spend all your sailing time trying to 
make the instruments talk to each other and at best, functionality will be 
limited.

Chuck Gilchrest

S/V Half Magic

1975 25 Mk 1

 

S/V Orion

1983 35 Landfa

Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

It is a bit misleading to say vaporized diesel can explode.  "Atomized"
diesel can explode.  Atomized motor oil can explode too.  The difference
being that a puddle of gasoline is volatile and will vaporize at room
temperature.  Diesel will not and would need to be atomized by pressuring
it through a nozzle.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD


On Mon, Dec 28, 2015, 1:17 AM Rick Rohwer via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I am pretty sure vaporized diesel will blow up like gasoline vapor.  I
> know vaporized cooking fat will.  Don’t most of the fuel docks ask you to
> shut down the engine and run the fan while fueling?
>
> I had never thought of it as an air supply for the engine.
>
> Rick
> Paikea 37+
> Poulsbo, WA
>
>
>
> On Dec 27, 2015, at 9:13 PM, Patrick Davin via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Since we were talking blowers last week, I wonder why C&C installed marine
> blowers even on boats that didn't have gas engines?
>
> I just today removed the rusted out ignition-protected blower in the stern
> of my boat, which looked original. It had been disabled a while ago by a
> prior owner (had no hoses attached, and the electrical wires aren't live)
> but never completely removed.
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxfHpwssU_6NdlFtMXJRRTdIZzg/view?usp=sharing
>
> West Marine has a page saying blowers are a must for gasoline, less so for
> diesel but sometimes still advisable for air supply to the engine. But our
> engine compartments are so huge and leaky (compared to many more modern
> boat designs - like a Jeanneau with an insulated below-companionway-stairs
> engine installation) that it seems quite unnecessary. Maybe that was the
> thinking of the times in the 80's?
>
> -Patrick
> 1984 C&C LF38
> Seattle, WA
>
> On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 8:27 AM,  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: Nate Flesness 
>> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
>> Cc:
>> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2015 16:59:18 -0600
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki
>> My 1980 30-1 has two hoses connected to the stern vents. One hose is
>> blower exhaust, the other runs forward to just aft of the engine and
>> sits there - air intake. I turn the tops accordingly. Very likely this is
>> original. The hose diameter fits tightly on the vent base, so 3" I.D.?
>>
>> Nate
>> "Sarah Jean"
>> Siskiwit Bay Marina
>> Lake Superior
>>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
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>
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Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

[Headgorilla via CnC-List]

Chuck,
 
I grew up in a boat yard and wound up in the commercial fishing industry from 
82-94 while alternating seasons at my fathers boat yard (winter-offshore< 
summer-boatyard). however my experience was always powerboats or big 
commercial.the marina was on Shinnecock bay and mostly shallow water so we 
did not have a ton of sailboats...mostly day sail so I never gravitated to 
them...now that I am trying to learn the ways of sailing I am in awe of 
what I need to figure out :)
 
Having only graduated to sailboats in the last couple of years from 22' to now 
34 I "think" I am most interested in looking for land-mass and buoys at least 
that was what I always used them for offshoreof course other boats but on 
poor visibility days I am thinking not too many will be out..

I think I prefer the idea of being on the mast, I just don't want to be cursing 
myself when I get all tangled up in it :)

I did see the stay mounted version..not too crazy about thatfor the 
blind spot and for vibration.

kind of leaning to a gimble mount on the mast.

I appreciate the input,

Mike


 
 
-Original Message-
From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Chuck Gilchrest 
Sent: Tue, Dec 29, 2015 4:56 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again



Mike,
One other option for mounting the radar is to utilize a  gimbaled backstay 
mount , which allows the mount to be sufficiently high above head height and 
has the advantage of self levelling the dome to orient with the horizon.  It is 
a less invasive mount that doesn’t require additional holes to be drilled in 
the mast and is far simpler than installing a separate mast to be supported at 
the stern of the boat.  If you unstep your mast in the winter, a back stay 
mount would require the radar dome be reset on the mount each time you 
re-commission the boat and the gimballed mounts tend to be pricey.  Another 
issue of mounting your dome behind the mast, either on the backstay or on a 
separate mast, is that the sailboat mast will be viewed as a target on the 
readout and can cause a blind spot in the center of your direction of travel.  
Not ideal..
 
  I’d say that here on the East Coast, the majority of radar use occurs when 
motoring in fog or during nighttime when visibility is low.  Those that sail in 
heavily travelled shipping lanes tend to want to know what is on the horizon as 
well as what is in close.  If you use the radar while sailing in breeze,  
keeping the dome level creates fewer blind spots due to a tilted dome looking 
down at the water on the leeward side of the boat and the windward side 
pointing up into the sky.
 
I’ve also heard that the 3G and 4G domes by Simrad/B&G/Lowrance use a different 
band of radar waves that are supposedly less harmful if mounted at head level 
on the boat.  But perhaps I shouldn’t believe everything I read in the glossy 
magazines…
So again I’ve created more questions than answers…
Chuck Gilchrest
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Headgorilla 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 3:43 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Headgorilla 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again
 

Thanks Guys,

 

I was thinking mast mount mostly to keep it away from passengers and crew, 
however I can see it as a possible pest on the mast as well.

 

I still have some time since we are wrapped up and on landI really 
appreciate the input

 

Mike

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Frederick G Street 
Sent: Tue, Dec 29, 2015 3:32 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

A couple of comments on radar: a mast-mounted radar will “see” vessels further 
away, including over the horizon compared to deck-level.  But as Chuck 
mentioned, it will not see things in the water closer to the boat, as there’s 
about a 12.5° vertical beam width above/below horizontal on most marine radars; 
so as a target gets within several dozen yards of the radar, it’ll be too low 
to be picked up.  Using a stern pole can help with this close-in imaging of 
targets; but you lose the distant ability of having the dome up high. 

 

There is also a danger with stern pole mounting of having the radar beam hit 
deck crew; stand too close to a high-power radar beam, and you can develop some 
nasty medical issues like vision loss.  This is an issue I have with power 
boaters who mount the dome right on their hard top (usually a large open 
array…), then come into the dock on a clear sunny day with the radar merrily 
turning away.  The beam is pretty much at head-height for anyone standing on 
the dock, and it’s pretty easy to get a nice face full of microwave radiation 
at close range.

 

Chuck — as far as NME0183 vs NMEA2000 on the Raymarine a, c, e, and eS Series 
MFDs, ALL of them support NMEA2000.  See page 51 of the a-c-e Installation 
Manual.  The 

Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

[Headgorilla via CnC-List]

I'm thinking the same Dave, I have been looking a the poles and am not crazy 
about the look.
 
thanks
 
mike
 
 
-Original Message-
From: David via CnC-List 
To: CNC CNC 
Cc: David 
Sent: Tue, Dec 29, 2015 5:03 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again



Mike,

Had the pole and it was ungainly looking.  Replaced it with a Questus gimball 
mount and love it.

David F. Risch
1981 40-2
(401) 419-4650 (cell)




Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:51:04 -0500
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: csgilchr...@comcast.net


Mike,
My experience with mast mounted radar is not favorable.  Close in targets tend 
to drop off (such as small boats and channel markers in the fog) as the radar 
tends to see above those objects.  The mast mount is also hell on an 
overlapping jib..
Chuck Gilchrest

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 29, 2015, at 2:23 PM, Headgorilla via CnC-List  
wrote:



Thanks for discussing the Raymarine equipment, I am going into the NY boat show 
next week to see my electronics people and probably but a package due to all 
the rebates and discounts they offer, so I appreciate your experience on this 
subjectI am listening.
 
One Question: where the best spot to mount the Radar antenna, on the Mast? or 
off a pole on the stern?
 
Mike Dolan
1979 34' C&C "Skywalker"
Southold, NY
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Chuck Gilchrest 
Sent: Tue, Dec 29, 2015 2:15 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again



I believe the C series units also rely on NMEA 0183 networking language where 
A, E series and newer will be NMEA 2000 and can network more readily with 
peripherals such as wind, speed, depth, and autopilot.  I’d check to see what’s 
on your boat with regards to the peripherals and that may make a difference in 
your decision making process.  Don’t try to mix and match instrument brands or 
operating language otherwise you will spend all your sailing time trying to 
make the instruments talk to each other and at best, functionality will be 
limited.
Chuck Gilchrest
S/V Half Magic
1975 25 Mk 1
 
S/V Orion
1983 35 Landfall
Padanaram, MA
 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Frederick G 
Street via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:03 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Frederick G Street 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

 
Sure!  The eS Series is the newest MFD from Raymarine, and is basically an 
updated, more powerful version of the e Series, with both touchscreen and hard 
controls.  I would definitely recommend the eS over the e if you’re looking to 
buy today, particularly at the 7” size where there’s not much difference at all 
in price.

 

The Raymarine c Series has NO touchscreen capability whatsoever; just buttons.  
I’d put it at the bottom of the heap in terms of power and functionality.

 

How’s that?   :^)

 

Happy New Year, all!

 

— Fred


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

 


On Dec 29, 2015, at 11:22 AM, Tim Goodyear  wrote:

 

Fred, thank you for that summary - I've been trying to work out what the 
differences between the Raymarine models amount to in the real world.  Would 
you care to expand your descriptions to include the "c" and "es" ranges too?

 

Thanks!

 

Tim


 


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Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL CHARACTERISTICS

[Ahmet via CnC-List]

Well, it is a combination. A good example here:
The C&C 25 has an aft compartment under the tiller, where the gas tank
sits. It is practically on the cockpit, and any fumes just drain out from a
little drain hole.
Now some industrious owners (like a previous owner of "Tabasco") decided to
open up that area and have more space in the cockpit. Which is wonderful,
but now, the fule tank is in a lazarette locker, hence any fumes or fuel
leaks from an expansion, will leak into the bilge.
So I am paranoid, and open up and smell the lazarettes every time. When I
get a chance, I will rebuild a new fuel tank compartment in the aft section
of the cockpit.
So dinghy fuel tanks, propane or what not are very safe as long as there is
room for the accidentally escaped gas to get away from the inside of the
boat.
I once had a bad junction in my propane tank. 10 lbs of propane leaked
within a day out thtough the went hole into the the ocean/air, and nobody
was ever in danger.
Ahmet
S/V Waterdancer Irwin 43 CC
Tabasco (C&C 25)


*(just for kicks .. previous boats:)Tapalonong 1995 Whaler Dountless 13 *


*S/V Nomad 1984 Catalina 36S/V Harmony 1972 Bristol 26Second Wind 1987 Sea
Ray 30 Sundancer*
*Kismet 2002 MacGregor 26X*



On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 5:09 PM, jtsails via CnC-List  wrote:

> since no one else has brought it up what about all the other things we
> have on our boats that potentially dangerous. Like the gas tank for the
> dinghy, the propane for the stove, the odd can of mineral spirits or the
> admirals hairspray? We are surrounded by everyday things that could go
> boom! Every boat needs a blower that is properly installed and used!
> James
> Delaney
> C&C 38 Mk11
> Oriental, NC
>
> *From:* Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 29, 2015 2:11 PM
> *To:* mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> *Cc:* Della Barba, Joe 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOWFUEL
> CHARACTERISTICS
>
>
> The typical diesel fire scenario is a high pressure fuel leak spraying on
> a red hot exhaust or turbo component.
>
>
>
> Joe
>
> Coquina
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *dwight
> veinot via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:12 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* dwight veinot
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOW FUEL
> CHARACTERISTICS
>
>
>
> Rick
>
> Nothing about that sounds like a geek to me, just some very good
> information based on sound knowledge, especially this part:
>
> Lots of smell – which may make a blower to ventilate the engine spaces
> very desirable
>
>
> Dwight Veinot
>
> C&C 35 MKII, *Alianna*
>
> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>
> d.ve...@bellaliant.net
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> The geek in me just has to jump in here with some technical information.
> So here goes:
>
>
>
> Yes, Rick, vaporized diesel will blow up like vaporized gasoline.
>
>
>
> And Yes, Patrick, diesel does not vaporize easily. And is a lot less
> likely to support a flame than Gasoline as well.
>
>
>
> The flash point (lowest temperature at which a liquid starts to evaporate)
> of Gasoline is -45 to -50 degrees F (-60 C, I think). The flash point of #2
> diesel is 126 F (52 C). Biodiesel, BTW, is about 225 F so if you use B10 or
> B15 in your boat the flash point of the fuel would be higher.
>
>
>
> The ignition concentration of a fuel vapor is the percent of fuel vs air
> that will support ignition. Too low a concentration or too high a
> concentration and you get no fire. That is why (if you are very lucky and
> not too bright, you can throw a lit match into a bowl of gasoline and
> nothing happens. For gasoline the range is 1.4% to 7.6%.  Diesel is pretty
> similar at 0.6% to 7.5%.
>
>
>
> The ignition point (temperature at which it will start burning) of gas and
> diesel are also very similar. Gas is 475 F, and diesel is 494 F.
>
>
>
> But gasoline is much more volatile, and at much lower temperatures. So you
> are likely to find gasoline vapor vs. diesel vapor.  Any fuel leak at above
> -45 F will result in gasoline vapor. A diesel leak will just make a  puddle
> unless the temperature is above 126 F. Yes, it would be a smelly puddle,
> but your nose can sense vapor concentrations far below the concentration
> that would support ignition.
>
>
>
> Since the density of the gasoline vapor is about 2.0 (air is by definition
> 1.0) at standard temperature and pressure (70 F and sea level), the
> combustible vapor sinks to the bottom of your bilge. Diesel vapor would do
> the same thing, except a measurable concentration of diesel vapor could not
> exist at STP. Even high pressure diesel forced out of a pinhole leak in one
> of your injector lines is more likely to result in a smelly mist (too high
> a concentration to support ignition) than in a combustible fuel vapor.
>
>
>
> The flash point indicates when a liquid starts 

Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Yes, again you’re correct, the 3G/4G radars use quite a bit less energy, so the 
potential for injury is significantly lower.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Dec 29, 2015, at 3:55 PM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I’ve also heard that the 3G and 4G domes by Simrad/B&G/Lowrance use a 
> different band of radar waves that are supposedly less harmful if mounted at 
> head level on the boat.  But perhaps I shouldn’t believe everything I read in 
> the glossy magazines…
> So again I’ve created more questions than answers…

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Stus-List FAO: Owner of Mithrandir II

[Paul Baker via CnC-List]

I seem to recall that there was a local C&C 33/35 called Mithrandir II, if so, 
is this your dinghy?
http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/found_26589081
Cheers,
Paul
Orange Crush
C&C27 MkII, Sidney, BC.
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Re: Stus-List FAO: Owner of Mithrandir II

[Bill Hoyne via CnC-List]

Hi Paul
My boat is a C&C 35 and it is Mithrandir. I think the previous owner bought 
another boat and called it Mithrandir II.  I think they kept the boat up in 
Sidney at Van Isle. I personally don't know them. 
Cheers
Bill

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2015, at 8:08 PM, Paul Baker via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> I seem to recall that there was a local C&C 33/35 called Mithrandir II, if 
> so, is this your dinghy?
> http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/found_26589081
> Cheers,
> Paul
> Orange Crush
> C&C27 MkII, Sidney, BC.
> ___
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Re: Stus-List FAO: Owner of Mithrandir II

[Paul Baker via CnC-List]

Hey Bill,
Yours is the dark red hull right?
Cheers,
Paul.

Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 20:15:08 -0700
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List FAO: Owner of Mithrandir II
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: ho...@telus.net

Hi PaulMy boat is a C&C 35 and it is Mithrandir. I think the previous owner 
bought another boat and called it Mithrandir II.  I think they kept the boat up 
in Sidney at Van Isle. I personally don't know them. CheersBill

Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 29, 2015, at 8:08 PM, Paul Baker via CnC-List  
wrote:




I seem to recall that there was a local C&C 33/35 called Mithrandir II, if so, 
is this your dinghy?
http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/found_26589081
Cheers,
Paul
Orange Crush
C&C27 MkII, Sidney, BC.
  
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Re: Stus-List FAO: Owner of Mithrandir II

[Bill Hoyne via CnC-List]

Yes it is😀

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2015, at 8:38 PM, Paul Baker via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Hey Bill,
> Yours is the dark red hull right?
> Cheers,
> Paul.
> 
> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 20:15:08 -0700
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List FAO: Owner of Mithrandir II
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> CC: ho...@telus.net
> 
> Hi Paul
> My boat is a C&C 35 and it is Mithrandir. I think the previous owner bought 
> another boat and called it Mithrandir II.  I think they kept the boat up in 
> Sidney at Van Isle. I personally don't know them. 
> Cheers
> Bill
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 29, 2015, at 8:08 PM, Paul Baker via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> I seem to recall that there was a local C&C 33/35 called Mithrandir II, if 
> so, is this your dinghy?
> http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/found_26589081
> Cheers,
> Paul
> Orange Crush
> C&C27 MkII, Sidney, BC.
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOW FUEL CHARACTERISTICS

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

You’re right, Joe. 

 

That isn’t an example of an explosive vapor ignited by a spark, but rather a 
liquid mist being heated above the 494 F ignition point of the liquid. And 
that’s not a situation that a blower would help avoid.

 

Rick

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Della Barba, 
Joe via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 2:11 PM
To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com' 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Proper Blower Installation - 30 mki NOW FUEL 
CHARACTERISTICS

 

The typical diesel fire scenario is a high pressure fuel leak spraying on a red 
hot exhaust or turbo component.

 

Joe

Coquina

 

 

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Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

I agree that it is a “what’s important to you” issue, but for me the weight 
aloft isn’t a real concern. The antenna weighs 10-15 pounds and up near the 
second spreader would be 35 feet off the deck. I don’t see that as all that 
significant because I don’t race any more.

 

For me the tradeoff is maximum range (having the antenna high gets you out over 
the horizon so you can get 16, 24, or more miles of range) vs the ability to 
see things close by (like channel markers less than ¼ mile away) when entering 
a harbor or negotiating a fog bank. The high mounted antenna looks over the top 
of the smaller targets that are close in. The low mount antenna sees the close 
in targets better, but at the expense of limiting the range at which you see 
shorter targets like small boats or low lying shores.

 

I have a 16 mile radar, with the antenna mounted on a pole supported by a radar 
arch, and the antenna is about 14 feet above the water. From that height the 
horizon is only about 4.5 NM, and I can see a medium sized fishing boat at 
about 7 or 8 miles. A freighter is taller so I can pick it up farther away.  
But more important for me, I can see channel markers inside of ¼ mile away.

 

If the antenna were 30 or 35 feet above the water, I’d probably pick up the 
fishing boat at near 16 miles, but the radar beam would just pass over the top 
of the channel markers and not return an echo.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Edd Schillay 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 2:29 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Edd Schillay 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus List - Raymarine Combo on sale again

 

Mike,

 

As I understand it, that’s one of those “what’s more important to you” choices. 
The radar will “see” more at the top of the mast, but having that much weight 
aloft will affect sailing performance. 

 

Personally, I’d go with the stern pole. That way, if you need to fix anything, 
it doesn’t involve a mast climb. 

 

Going to the NY show as well on the Sunday. Hope to run into you and other 
C&C’ers. 


All the best,

 

Edd

 

 

Edd M. Schillay

Starship Enterprise

C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

City Island, NY 

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log  

 






 






 

On Dec 29, 2015, at 2:23 PM, Headgorilla via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

Thanks for discussing the Raymarine equipment, I am going into the NY boat show 
next week to see my electronics people and probably but a package due to all 
the rebates and discounts they offer, so I appreciate your experience on this 
subjectI am listening.

 

One Question: where the best spot to mount the Radar antenna, on the Mast? or 
off a pole on the stern?

 

Mike Dolan

1979 34' C&C "Skywalker"

Southold, NY

 

 

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Re: Stus-List FAO: Owner of Mithrandir II

[Rick Rohwer via CnC-List]

i’d be willing to kick in for a reward to this fella for making the effort to 
get the dinghy back to the owner.  i’ll buy him a pint in Sidney on the next 
trip up! Give me his contact info!
Cheers back
Rick
Paikea 37+


> On Dec 29, 2015, at 7:08 PM, Paul Baker via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> I seem to recall that there was a local C&C 33/35 called Mithrandir II, if 
> so, is this your dinghy?
> http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/found_26589081 
> 
> Cheers,
> Paul
> Orange Crush
> C&C27 MkII, Sidney, BC.
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com 
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> of page at:
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> 
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