Re: Stus-List Autopilot Recommendations

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Doug — sorry for the delay; it’s haulout weekend.  Yes, on any Raymarine 
autopilot systems older than the current EVO systems, you really need to have 
the rudder reference transducer installed and calibrated to get decent 
performance out of the system.

You should have gotten a transducer along with the X10 system; I’ve got one 
around somewhere if you don’t find yours.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Oct 9, 2015, at 9:33 PM, svpegasu...@gmail.com via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I had to get auto pilot because my cat refuses to take the helm. So I got the 
> Raymarine X10 with linear drive and a St70 control head. Thinking I should 
> add a rudder transducer... am thinking this will lessen the constant 
> adjustments from the pilot. What is your opinion Fred? 
> 
> Doug Mountjoy
> svPegasus
> LF38 
> just west of Ballard, WA.

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Re: Stus-List Autopilot Recommendations

[William Walker via CnC-List]

Fred,
  I guess this goes for st4000 wheel pilots too?  Are there any available for 
these and how tough an install.  
Bill Walker
CnC 36
Pentwater, Mi



Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Sunday, October 11, 2015 Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Doug — sorry for the delay; it’s haulout weekend.  Yes, on any Raymarine 
autopilot systems older than the current EVO systems, you really need to have 
the rudder reference transducer installed and calibrated to get decent 
performance out of the system.


You should have gotten a transducer along with the X10 system; I’ve got one 
around somewhere if you don’t find yours.


— Fred


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(


On Oct 9, 2015, at 9:33 PM, svpegasu...@gmail.com via CnC-List 
 wrote:


I had to get auto pilot because my cat refuses to take the helm. So I got the 
Raymarine X10 with linear drive and a St70 control head. Thinking I should add 
a rudder transducer... am thinking this will lessen the constant adjustments 
from the pilot. What is your opinion Fred? 


Doug Mountjoy

svPegasus

LF38 

just west of Ballard, WA.


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Re: Stus-List Autopilot Recommendations

[svpegasus38]

Fred, I never got the transducer with my system. If you have one I would be 
more than happy to buy it off you. 
Doug MountjoysvPegasusLF38 just west of Ballard, WA.




-- Original message--From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List Date: Sun, 
Oct 11, 2015 06:11To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com;Cc: Frederick G Street;Subject:Re: 
Stus-List Autopilot Recommendations
Doug — sorry for the delay; it’s haulout weekend.  Yes, on any Raymarine 
autopilot systems older than the current EVO systems, you really need to have 
the rudder reference transducer installed and calibrated to get decent 
performance out of the system.
You should have gotten a transducer along with the X10 system; I’ve got one 
around somewhere if you don’t find yours.
— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
On Oct 9, 2015, at 9:33 PM, svpegasu...@gmail.com via CnC-List 
 wrote:
I had to get auto pilot because my cat refuses to take the helm. So I got the 
Raymarine X10 with linear drive and a St70 control head. Thinking I should add 
a rudder transducer... am thinking this will lessen the constant adjustments 
from the pilot. What is your opinion Fred? 
Doug MountjoysvPegasusLF38 just west of Ballard, WA.


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Re: Stus-List Autopilot Recommendations

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

>From all the comments over the past few years I know that David's comment is
true. But I have always wondered "WHY?". What changed to make the rudder
position sensor essential?

 

Over the years I've had an Autohelm tillerpilot (800 I think) on a 27 and a
Raymarine 1000 tillerpilot on my 25 with tiller steering. A Raymarine 3000
belt driven wheel pilot. And there is a Navico 5000 wheel pilot on my 38
(I'm sure it isn't older than dirt, but it is almost older than plastic).
None of these has a wheel sensor - relying only on heading information from
the fluxgate compass built into them to steer the boat. All of them worked
well. 

 

The Navico took a bit of adjustment to the settings to optimize performance
(I suspect the PO had never set it up since the wheel lock to lock setting
was the default and not the proper number for the boat), but once set up the
wheelpilot will steer the boat for miles and miles without a variance from
the desired heading of over a degree or two.

 

So what has changed with the newer autopilots to make the rudder position
sensor so important?

 

Rick Brass

Imzadi  C&C 38 mk 2

la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David via
CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 6:52 PM
To: CNC CNC 
Cc: David 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Autopilot Recommendations

 

Without the rudder position indicator the auto pilot is flying blind.  It
does not have a key component that allows them to do their job well.

David F. Risch
1981 40-2
(401) 419-4650 (cell)



  _  

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 19:33:10 -0700
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Autopilot Recommendations
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
CC: svpegasu...@gmail.com  

I had to get auto pilot because my cat refuses to take the helm. So I got
the Raymarine X10 with linear drive and a St70 control head. Thinking I
should add a rudder transducer... am thinking this will lessen the constant
adjustments from the pilot. What is your opinion Fred? 

 

Doug Mountjoy

svPegasus

LF38 

just west of Ballard, WA. 

 


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Stus-List Rebuilding Atomic 4

[Barbara Hickson Fellers via CnC-List]

Look up and subscribe to the Moyer Marine forum for A4 owners. Unbelievably helpful, as  is Ken at Moyer Marine parts. The forum is easy to navigate and your specific questions are answered, debated and researched quicker than you'd expect. The Atomic 4 is as legendary as our C&Cs. 😄Barbara Hickson"Flight Risk" C&C 33-1 Charleston. SC

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Re: Stus-List Autopilot Recommendations

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

To Rick's question, I have no idea why the old ones worked, they may have been 
designed to simply follow a compass course, but I think that from the four 
thousand on they were designed to have feedback from the runner position 
sensor. I know mine was worthless until I put it in. A salesman at defender 
told me I didn't need it. He was wrong. It was a royal Pia to install. The 
smaller the quarters, the more pain. I think I still have a drawing of how I 
mounted it on the quadrant and pictures. Don't know how similar they are but 
probably not too far off if you are interested.


Bill Coleman C&C39

 Original message 
From: William Walker via CnC-List  
Date: 10/11/2015  9:37 AM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: wwadjo...@aol.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Autopilot Recommendations 

Fred,

  I guess this goes for st4000 wheel pilots too?  Are there any available for 
these and how tough an install.  

Bill Walker

CnC 36

Pentwater, Mi




Sent from AOL Mobile Mail


On Sunday, October 11, 2015 Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Doug — sorry for the delay; it’s haulout weekend.  Yes, on any Raymarine 
autopilot systems older than the current EVO systems, you really need to have 
the rudder reference transducer installed and calibrated to get decent 
performance out of the system.
You should have gotten a transducer along with the X10 system; I’ve got one 
around somewhere if you don’t find yours.
— Fred


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(



On Oct 9, 2015, at 9:33 PM, svpegasu...@gmail.com via CnC-List 
 wrote:
I had to get auto pilot because my cat refuses to take the helm. So I got the 
Raymarine X10 with linear drive and a St70 control head. Thinking I should add 
a rudder transducer... am thinking this will lessen the constant adjustments 
from the pilot. What is your opinion Fred? 
Doug MountjoysvPegasusLF38 just west of Ballard, WA.
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Stus-List Roller Reefing Boom

[schiller via CnC-List]

So, Corsair is out for the season and I brought home the Spinnaker Pole 
and the Boom to clean up for the winter and it got me wondering how many 
still have the original roller reefing boom?  I have used the roller 
reefing feature once with the old main (no slab reefing).  We now have a 
North Main that has two reef points.  We don't reef all that often.  We 
just don't go out that often in 15+ TWS.


Once I got the end fitting off I figured out why the outhaul was always 
such a tough adjustment.  The outhaul sheave has a half inch ID and the 
pin is 5/16.  There was no bushing in the sheave. I think that I'll just 
order a new sheave from Rig Rite.


I am having the mast stepped this winter so that I can give it a good 
look over this winter.  I am going to replace all of the bulbs with LEDs 
and finally fix my spreader lights (they came disconnected a few years 
ago and I just haven't wanted to go up the mast that bad to reconnect them.


We are doing all of this work because we are finally leaving South Haven 
and taking the boat north to White Lake (Michigan).  It is a difficult 
decision.  We have been in South Haven (short one year that we didn't 
even go in the water and one year in Saugatuck/Douglas due to low water 
levels in South Haven) since we came up to Michigan with our South Coast 
23 in 1992.  We find that there is no social life for the old sailors in 
South Haven.  We are hoping to find a little more activity in Whitehall 
and we will join White Lake Yacht Club to help.  The up side to moving 
up the lake is that the cost is less (we can pay for the slip and the 
WLYC dues for less than slip in SH) and we can sail White Lake when the 
big lake is not hospitable.  We already know more people on White Lake 
than we do in South Haven.


We are also replacing the 45 year old cushions since we will be spending 
more weekends on the boat.  Whitehall is a 2 hour drive, South Haven was 
a twenty minute drive.


This is a pretty big move for us but we are excited to maybe get more 
usage out of the boat.  Wish us luck.


Neil Schiller
1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
(C&C 35, Mark I)
"Corsair"
on the hard in South Haven fo probably the last time


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Stus-List (no subject)

[William Walker via CnC-List]

Neil,
  White Lake is great place and you will enjoy.  Plan an overnight in Pentwater 
during the summer and give me a shout.  
Glad to have you visit Pentwater Yacht Club.
Bill Walker
CnC 36
Pentwater, Mi


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Stus-List Dave Syer shared an album with you.

[Dave Syer via CnC-List]

33mkii "windstar" mast step revisited - photos.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir?uname=113820107769936378062&target=ALBUM&id=6204484620508637473&authkey=Gv1sRgCJOCl9DE4eOBGA&invite=CIednp0J&feat=email
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Stus-List C&C33ii mast step revisited - Windstar photos

[Dave Syer via CnC-List]

Hi all, I may have double posted, if so, my apologies.   See the slink
below for photos of my mast step/keel explorations.   I would welcome any
commentary and recommendations. Thanks as always, Dave





https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir?uname=113820107769936378062&target=ALBUM&id=6204484620508637473&authkey=Gv1sRgCJOCl9DE4eOBGA&feat=email
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Re: Stus-List Roller Reefing Boom

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Touche' still has the original roller boom.  It can't roll anymore because
of the rigid boom vang.

I've replaced the old screw type outhaul with a car and 4:1 purchase.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
On Oct 11, 2015 4:44 PM, "schiller via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> So, Corsair is out for the season and I brought home the Spinnaker Pole
> and the Boom to clean up for the winter and it got me wondering how many
> still have the original roller reefing boom?  I have used the roller
> reefing feature once with the old main (no slab reefing).  We now have a
> North Main that has two reef points.  We don't reef all that often.  We
> just don't go out that often in 15+ TWS.
>
> Once I got the end fitting off I figured out why the outhaul was always
> such a tough adjustment.  The outhaul sheave has a half inch ID and the pin
> is 5/16.  There was no bushing in the sheave.  I think that I'll just order
> a new sheave from Rig Rite.
>
> I am having the mast stepped this winter so that I can give it a good look
> over this winter.  I am going to replace all of the bulbs with LEDs and
> finally fix my spreader lights (they came disconnected a few years ago and
> I just haven't wanted to go up the mast that bad to reconnect them.
>
> We are doing all of this work because we are finally leaving South Haven
> and taking the boat north to White Lake (Michigan).  It is a difficult
> decision.  We have been in South Haven (short one year that we didn't even
> go in the water and one year in Saugatuck/Douglas due to low water levels
> in South Haven) since we came up to Michigan with our South Coast 23 in
> 1992.  We find that there is no social life for the old sailors in South
> Haven.  We are hoping to find a little more activity in Whitehall and we
> will join White Lake Yacht Club to help.  The up side to moving up the lake
> is that the cost is less (we can pay for the slip and the WLYC dues for
> less than slip in SH) and we can sail White Lake when the big lake is not
> hospitable.  We already know more people on White Lake than we do in South
> Haven.
>
> We are also replacing the 45 year old cushions since we will be spending
> more weekends on the boat.  Whitehall is a 2 hour drive, South Haven was a
> twenty minute drive.
>
> This is a pretty big move for us but we are excited to maybe get more
> usage out of the boat.  Wish us luck.
>
> Neil Schiller
> 1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
> (C&C 35, Mark I)
> "Corsair"
> on the hard in South Haven fo probably the last time
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Roller Reefing Boom

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

La Belle Aurore, 25 mk1 hull number 225, still has the roller furling boom – 
and I even still have the crank that came with the boat for furling. Like 
Touche, the roller boom is disabled by the Garhauer Vang. Bell has end boom 
sheeting with the traveler on the transom. And though I have done away with the 
topping lift, I still use the little rotating plate on the end of the boom as 
the attachment point for the mainsheet block.

 

I don’t really think this was the pinnacle of sailboat technology. But if it 
works, why change it.

 

Rick Brass

Imzadi  C&C 38 mk 2

la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ken Heaton 
via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 8:19 PM
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Ken Heaton 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Roller Reefing Boom

 

I still occasionally sail on a C&C 35 Mk.1 that still has the roller furling 
main and the screw type outhaul.  It still has the pin stop traveler too.  The 
owner has has had her since 1980 or so.

 

He is always trying to convince us "this is the pinnacle of sailboat 
technology, why change anything?"

 

It works for him.

 

Ken H.

 

On 11 October 2015 at 21:03, Dennis C. via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Touche' still has the original roller boom.  It can't roll anymore because of 
the rigid boom vang.

I've replaced the old screw type outhaul with a car and 4:1 purchase.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Oct 11, 2015 4:44 PM, "schiller via CnC-List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

So, Corsair is out for the season and I brought home the Spinnaker Pole and the 
Boom to clean up for the winter and it got me wondering how many still have the 
original roller reefing boom?  I have used the roller reefing feature once with 
the old main (no slab reefing).  We now have a North Main that has two reef 
points.  We don't reef all that often.  We just don't go out that often in 15+ 
TWS.

Once I got the end fitting off I figured out why the outhaul was always such a 
tough adjustment.  The outhaul sheave has a half inch ID and the pin is 5/16.  
There was no bushing in the sheave.  I think that I'll just order a new sheave 
from Rig Rite.

I am having the mast stepped this winter so that I can give it a good look over 
this winter.  I am going to replace all of the bulbs with LEDs and finally fix 
my spreader lights (they came disconnected a few years ago and I just haven't 
wanted to go up the mast that bad to reconnect them.

We are doing all of this work because we are finally leaving South Haven and 
taking the boat north to White Lake (Michigan).  It is a difficult decision.  
We have been in South Haven (short one year that we didn't even go in the water 
and one year in Saugatuck/Douglas due to low water levels in South Haven) since 
we came up to Michigan with our South Coast 23 in 1992.  We find that there is 
no social life for the old sailors in South Haven.  We are hoping to find a 
little more activity in Whitehall and we will join White Lake Yacht Club to 
help.  The up side to moving up the lake is that the cost is less (we can pay 
for the slip and the WLYC dues for less than slip in SH) and we can sail White 
Lake when the big lake is not hospitable.  We already know more people on White 
Lake than we do in South Haven. 

We are also replacing the 45 year old cushions since we will be spending more 
weekends on the boat.  Whitehall is a 2 hour drive, South Haven was a twenty 
minute drive.

This is a pretty big move for us but we are excited to maybe get more usage out 
of the boat.  Wish us luck.

Neil Schiller
1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
(C&C 35, Mark I)
"Corsair"
on the hard in South Haven fo probably the last time



 

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Re: Stus-List Roller Reefing Boom

[Ken Heaton via CnC-List]

I still occasionally sail on a C&C 35 Mk.1 that still has the roller
furling main and the screw type outhaul.  It still has the pin stop
traveler too.  The owner has has had her since 1980 or so.

He is always trying to convince us "this is the pinnacle of sailboat
technology, why change anything?"

It works for him.

Ken H.

On 11 October 2015 at 21:03, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Touche' still has the original roller boom.  It can't roll anymore because
> of the rigid boom vang.
>
> I've replaced the old screw type outhaul with a car and 4:1 purchase.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> On Oct 11, 2015 4:44 PM, "schiller via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
>> So, Corsair is out for the season and I brought home the Spinnaker Pole
>> and the Boom to clean up for the winter and it got me wondering how many
>> still have the original roller reefing boom?  I have used the roller
>> reefing feature once with the old main (no slab reefing).  We now have a
>> North Main that has two reef points.  We don't reef all that often.  We
>> just don't go out that often in 15+ TWS.
>>
>> Once I got the end fitting off I figured out why the outhaul was always
>> such a tough adjustment.  The outhaul sheave has a half inch ID and the pin
>> is 5/16.  There was no bushing in the sheave.  I think that I'll just order
>> a new sheave from Rig Rite.
>>
>> I am having the mast stepped this winter so that I can give it a good
>> look over this winter.  I am going to replace all of the bulbs with LEDs
>> and finally fix my spreader lights (they came disconnected a few years ago
>> and I just haven't wanted to go up the mast that bad to reconnect them.
>>
>> We are doing all of this work because we are finally leaving South Haven
>> and taking the boat north to White Lake (Michigan).  It is a difficult
>> decision.  We have been in South Haven (short one year that we didn't even
>> go in the water and one year in Saugatuck/Douglas due to low water levels
>> in South Haven) since we came up to Michigan with our South Coast 23 in
>> 1992.  We find that there is no social life for the old sailors in South
>> Haven.  We are hoping to find a little more activity in Whitehall and we
>> will join White Lake Yacht Club to help.  The up side to moving up the lake
>> is that the cost is less (we can pay for the slip and the WLYC dues for
>> less than slip in SH) and we can sail White Lake when the big lake is not
>> hospitable.  We already know more people on White Lake than we do in South
>> Haven.
>>
>> We are also replacing the 45 year old cushions since we will be spending
>> more weekends on the boat.  Whitehall is a 2 hour drive, South Haven was a
>> twenty minute drive.
>>
>> This is a pretty big move for us but we are excited to maybe get more
>> usage out of the boat.  Wish us luck.
>>
>> Neil Schiller
>> 1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
>> (C&C 35, Mark I)
>> "Corsair"
>> on the hard in South Haven fo probably the last time
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
>> bottom of page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>>
>>
>>
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Re: Stus-List Autopilot Recommendations

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Bill — the older ST4000 wheelpilot does not use a rudder reference transducer; 
but the newer ST4000+ does.  It should have shipped with one.  They are 
available as a standalone part, for about $250 plus shipping.  As I mentioned 
before, I have a spare here somewhere; if anyone is interested, the first $150 
plus $15 to ship takes it.  This is brand new in the box.

As far as installation goes, that’s definitely the hardest part.  As each boat 
may be a bit different, and I’m not familiar with the 36’s steering system and 
accessibility, I can’t give you an exact idea.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Oct 11, 2015, at 8:37 AM, William Walker via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Fred,
>   I guess this goes for st4000 wheel pilots too?  Are there any available for 
> these and how tough an install.  
> Bill Walker
> CnC 36
> Pentwater, Mi
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Re: Stus-List Autopilot Recommendations

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

See my reply to Bill.


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Oct 11, 2015, at 10:36 AM, svpegasu...@gmail.com via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Fred, I never got the transducer with my system. If you have one I would be 
> more than happy to buy it off you. 
> 
> Doug Mountjoy
> svPegasus
> LF38
> just west of Ballard, WA
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Re: Stus-List Roller Reefing Boom

[schiller via CnC-List]

I just replaced the pin stop traveler this year. Replaced with a 
Garhauer adjustable traveler and a 3:1/6:1 Mainsheeting system.


Thinking about rigid vang as well.

Neil Schiller
1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
(C&C 35, Mark I)
"Corsair"


On 10/11/2015 8:19 PM, Ken Heaton via CnC-List wrote:
I still occasionally sail on a C&C 35 Mk.1 that still has the roller 
furling main and the screw type outhaul. It still has the pin stop 
traveler too.  The owner has has had her since 1980 or so.


He is always trying to convince us "this is the pinnacle of sailboat 
technology, why change anything?"


It works for him.

Ken H.

On 11 October 2015 at 21:03, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Touche' still has the original roller boom.  It can't roll anymore
because of the rigid boom vang.

I've replaced the old screw type outhaul with a car and 4:1 purchase.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Oct 11, 2015 4:44 PM, "schiller via CnC-List"
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

So, Corsair is out for the season and I brought home the
Spinnaker Pole and the Boom to clean up for the winter and it
got me wondering how many still have the original roller
reefing boom?  I have used the roller reefing feature once
with the old main (no slab reefing).  We now have a North Main
that has two reef points.  We don't reef all that often.  We
just don't go out that often in 15+ TWS.

Once I got the end fitting off I figured out why the outhaul
was always such a tough adjustment. The outhaul sheave has a
half inch ID and the pin is 5/16.  There was no bushing in the
sheave.  I think that I'll just order a new sheave from Rig Rite.

I am having the mast stepped this winter so that I can give it
a good look over this winter.  I am going to replace all of
the bulbs with LEDs and finally fix my spreader lights (they
came disconnected a few years ago and I just haven't wanted to
go up the mast that bad to reconnect them.

We are doing all of this work because we are finally leaving
South Haven and taking the boat north to White Lake
(Michigan).  It is a difficult decision.  We have been in
South Haven (short one year that we didn't even go in the
water and one year in Saugatuck/Douglas due to low water
levels in South Haven) since we came up to Michigan with our
South Coast 23 in 1992. We find that there is no social life
for the old sailors in South Haven.  We are hoping to find a
little more activity in Whitehall and we will join White Lake
Yacht Club to help.  The up side to moving up the lake is that
the cost is less (we can pay for the slip and the WLYC dues
for less than slip in SH) and we can sail White Lake when the
big lake is not hospitable.  We already know more people on
White Lake than we do in South Haven.

We are also replacing the 45 year old cushions since we will
be spending more weekends on the boat.  Whitehall is a 2 hour
drive, South Haven was a twenty minute drive.

This is a pretty big move for us but we are excited to maybe
get more usage out of the boat.  Wish us luck.

Neil Schiller
1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
(C&C 35, Mark I)
"Corsair"
on the hard in South Haven fo probably the last time



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Re: Stus-List Autopilot Recommendations

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Typically the tiller pilots never had them; if you think about it, if you have 
tiller steering, you don’t have a quadrant to attach the transducer to.  And 
the older wheelpilots just used a fluxgate compass to steer to.  But the 
results weren’t always as good as they could be, so the ST4000+ added the 
transducer (which has pretty much always been a part of the below-deck pilot 
installations) to improve its performance, particularly downwind (which is 
problematic for many pilots).

The new Raymarine EVO pilot systems still use the transducer; but Raymarine 
says it’s “recommended”, not necessary.  According to the EV install manual:

> The connection of a rudder reference unit is highly recommended, to help 
> ensure optimum autopilot performance...
> 
> Certain environmental conditions such as a cross-current can cause the 
> autopilot system to steer persistently to port or starboard, even when the 
> rudder is centered.  With a rudder reference unit connected to your autopilot 
> system, you can use an autopilot control head to specify an offset angle in 
> +/– degrees to compensate for inaccurate rudder angle information caused by 
> such conditions.
> 
> The more accurate the rudder angle information, the more accurately the 
> autopilot system can keep to a correct course.

And for Pete Shelquist, even Garmin offers it as an option:

> Add Even More Peace of Mind
> Add an optional GRF 10 rudder feedback sensor and you can further enhance the 
> performance of your GHP Reactor autopilot with SmartPump.

:^)

— Fred


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(



> On Oct 11, 2015, at 11:06 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> From all the comments over the past few years I know that David’s comment is 
> true. But I have always wondered “WHY?”. What changed to make the rudder 
> position sensor essential?
>  
> Over the years I’ve had an Autohelm tillerpilot (800 I think) on a 27 and a 
> Raymarine 1000 tillerpilot on my 25 with tiller steering. A Raymarine 3000 
> belt driven wheel pilot. And there is a Navico 5000 wheel pilot on my 38 (I’m 
> sure it isn’t older than dirt, but it is almost older than plastic). None of 
> these has a wheel sensor – relying only on heading information from the 
> fluxgate compass built into them to steer the boat. All of them worked well. 
>  
> The Navico took a bit of adjustment to the settings to optimize performance 
> (I suspect the PO had never set it up since the wheel lock to lock setting 
> was the default and not the proper number for the boat), but once set up the 
> wheelpilot will steer the boat for miles and miles without a variance from 
> the desired heading of over a degree or two.
>  
> So what has changed with the newer autopilots to make the rudder position 
> sensor so important?
>  
> Rick Brass
> Imzadi  C&C 38 mk 2
> la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1
> Washington, NC

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Re: Stus-List Autopilot Recommendations

[Douglas Mountjoy via CnC-List]

Fred I will definitely take that transducer off of your hands. Can you
contact me off list. Technology is not my strong suit.

Thanks,



Doug Mountjoy
sv Pegasus
LF38
just west of Ballard, WA

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 6:41 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Bill — the older ST4000 wheelpilot does not use a rudder reference
> transducer; but the newer ST4000+ does.  It should have shipped with one.
> They are available as a standalone part, for about $250 plus shipping.  As
> I mentioned before, I have a spare here somewhere; if anyone is interested,
> the first $150 plus $15 to ship takes it.  This is brand new in the box.
>
> As far as installation goes, that’s definitely the hardest part.  As each
> boat may be a bit different, and I’m not familiar with the 36’s steering
> system and accessibility, I can’t give you an exact idea.
>
> — Fred
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>
> On Oct 11, 2015, at 8:37 AM, William Walker via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Fred,
>   I guess this goes for st4000 wheel pilots too?  Are there any available
> for these and how tough an install.
> Bill Walker
> CnC 36
> Pentwater, Mi
>
>
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>
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Re: Stus-List Autopilot Recommendations

[Knowles Rich via CnC-List]

Unfortunate you had problems with Raymarine support.

RK


Rich Knowles
Nanaimo, BC
Boatless!





On Oct 9, 2015, at 09:30, Pete Shelquist via CnC-List  
wrote:

Rich –
The SPX-30.  Ray tech support has it - Not repairable, but is replaceable.   
It’s not worth going into detail on dealing with tech support to get to this 
conclusion, but it wasn’t great.  However, congratulations on your whack of 
systems with few problems.
 
I don’t have any hydraulics – AP ram or other, so it doesn’t apply to me and I 
didn’t intend to infer it would work with all systems, if that’s your point.  
Because it doesn’t apply doesn’t mean it should be discounted either.  It is 
clever engineering.  
 
 
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
] On Behalf Of Knowles Rich via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2015 9:58 AM
To: cnc-list Cnc-List
Cc: Knowles Rich
Subject: Re: Stus-List Autopilot Recommendations
 
Pete:
 
Out of curiosity, what “died” in your Raymarine system? I have owned and 
installed a whack of these systems and have had very few problems over the 
years. 
 
Also, unless I’m suffering more than usual today, the Garmin Shadow Drive will 
only work when installed in the line from a helm pump in a fully hydraulic 
steering system. It will not work on a cable driven system such as that found 
in most C&C sail boats. Nice idea, but….
 
Rich Knowles
Nanaimo, BC
Boatless!




 
On Oct 9, 2015, at 06:56, Pete Shelquist via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
 
Cruising World  has a article summarizing different autopilot manufacturers in 
the Oct issue.  Not a lot of detail, but another source of input.
 
I installed Raymarine SPX-30 in ’08 and it died on me this summer.  I’ll 
replace with Garmin over the winter.   Next summer I’ll be able to give a more 
thorough review of difference, but the Shadow Drive function in Garmin is very 
clever.
 
#friendsdon’tletfriendsbuyraymarine
 
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
To: C&C List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Edd Schillay mailto:e...@schillay.com>>
Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2015 5:56 pm
Subject: Stus-List Autopilot Recommendations

Listers, 
 
My wife is considering buying me an autopilot system for my 50th (YIKES!) 
birthday next year to replace our failing Robertson unit. She saw the video 
from the 2015 Northeast Rendezvous of Nader sitting in his cockpit eating lunch 
while the boat drove itself to Clinton and said “Oh you gotta have that!” 
 
The Octopus hydraulic drive is already installed and I’m somewhat partial to 
the Raymarine EV-200 system (and Fred Street has pretty good pricing), but 
wanted to see if anyone else has recommendations on units I should look at. 
 

All the best,
 
Edd
 
 
Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
 








 



 
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Stus-List VC17

[Brent Driedger via CnC-List]

Hi everyone and to my fellow Canadians, happy Thanksgiving. 
I pulled Wild Rover out of the lake last weekend and found not to my surprise 
that once again I have lost the majority of the VC17 I painted onto the hull 
within 6 inches of the waterline. 
I originally brought the hull back to bare gel coat with a random orbital 
sander and sealed with 6 coats of Interprotect 2000. This was sanded flat and 
roughed up prior to the VC application. The Vc goes on as per the instructions 
but every year I loose that 6" or so. More where the water is turbulent. It's 
frustrating watching others pull boats with intact bottom paint, even those who 
clean their hulls every couple of weeks. 
Any idea what I'm doing wrong? This is all the more important as the zebra 
mussel infestation in Lake Winnipeg requires a good paint job. There were about 
a thousand of them on the little keel in front of my rudder which like the top 
6" had lost its VC17 from the lower horizontal surface. 

Brent Driedger
27-5
Lake Winnipeg. 

Sent from my iPhone
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