Re: Stus-List New foredeck hatch

[D.J. Platt via CnC-List]

Use the smallest diameter bit you can - less resistance on the router motor.

david

Wanderer
C&C 32


From: O'Keeffe Thomas via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 8:33 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List New foredeck hatch


Wal and JIm


I'll try the router first.  Template taped underneath the hole to guide the 
trim bit, frame of 1x4s on top of the deck to provide a flat surface for the 
router base. That should keep it under control.



Did the very rough cut with the jig saw already.  Very solid deck with a glass 
core between the skins.  Hopefully the router will clean that up nicely.


Thanks. 



Tom














On Tuesday, March 31, 2015 7:30 PM, Wally Bryant via CnC-List 
 wrote:




Maybe some scrap wood and clamps would help the router stay under 
control.  Else I'd use a sabre saw to trace the outline.  Carbonite bits 
cut through fiberglass well. Good caulk fixes many minor errors.

Sorry if someone else already said this...  I'm about 145 emails behind.

Wal

On 3/27/2015 12:45 PM, O'Keeffe Thomas via CnC-List wrote:
> I decided to use a router and made a template.  Tried that yesterday  and 
> found the deck is tough, with solid epoxy between the skins.  The router 
> basically bounced off.  I did it from underneath because the hatch sits in a 
> recess topside.  I probably won't try that again as I couldn't the router.
>
> Before I hack up my deck and any body parts, checking with this group for 
> comments or ideas?


-- 
s/v Stella Blue
www.wbryant.com 



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Stus-List Corrosion in winch drum

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

All,

Finally got the drum off the winch with lots of PB Blaster, force, heat,
and finally, my gear/prop puller.

There is a lot of corrosion inside the aluminum drum where the bearing
rides (went too light on the grease?).  Should I use 600 grit sandpaper to
smooth it?  Other suggestions?

I'll be buying the big tub of winch grease this weekend!

-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Corrosion in winch drum

[Robert Boyer via CnC-List]

Joel:  I had the same type of winch problem last year on my port jib sheet 
winch.  Once I got it apart I just thoroughly cleaned it, greased it up good, 
and put it back together and its been working fine since.  Sanding is probably 
not necessary...

Bob

Bob Boyer
S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
email: dainyr...@icloud.com 
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com

"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply 
messing about in boats."  --Kenneth Grahame

> On Apr 1, 2015, at 9:13 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> All,
> 
> Finally got the drum off the winch with lots of PB Blaster, force, heat, and 
> finally, my gear/prop puller. 
> 
> There is a lot of corrosion inside the aluminum drum where the bearing rides 
> (went too light on the grease?).  Should I use 600 grit sandpaper to smooth 
> it?  Other suggestions?
> 
> I'll be buying the big tub of winch grease this weekend!
> 
> -- 
> Joel 
> 301 541 8551
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
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Stus-List Any hope for this battery?

[OldSteveH via CnC-List]

In October when DG came out of the water, after winterizing I carelessly
left the 12v power on - my cranking battery - a 1 year old Motomaster Marine
AGM, group 24, 75 ah.
When I came back a few weeks later it was flat. I took it out of the boat
and brought it home. It would not take a charge.
Over the winter I tried now and again with no luck but as of a few days ago
it is now charging on both the charger auto positon and at 10 amps (this
portable charger is for deep cycle batteries)
Previously the charger would show error.  However the battery gets hot. Not
being versed in batteries can anyone advise if it can be resuscitated? 

Thanks,

Steve Hood
S/V Diamond Girl
C&C 34
Lions Head ON





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Re: Stus-List Any hope for this battery?

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Steve,

IMHO — http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/list/000/715/142/f6c.jpg 
 

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 













> On Apr 1, 2015, at 10:19 AM, OldSteveH via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> In October when DG came out of the water, after winterizing I carelessly
> left the 12v power on - my cranking battery - a 1 year old Motomaster Marine
> AGM, group 24, 75 ah.
> When I came back a few weeks later it was flat. I took it out of the boat
> and brought it home. It would not take a charge.
> Over the winter I tried now and again with no luck but as of a few days ago
> it is now charging on both the charger auto positon and at 10 amps (this
> portable charger is for deep cycle batteries)
> Previously the charger would show error.  However the battery gets hot. Not
> being versed in batteries can anyone advise if it can be resuscitated? 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Steve Hood
> S/V Diamond Girl
> C&C 34
> Lions Head ON
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
> of page at:
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Re: Stus-List Corrosion in winch drum

[ed vanderkruk via CnC-List]

Too much grease might actually contribute to winch problems - especially in
salt water environments. You have to make sure that at least the pawls are
clear excess of grease.  I've had good experience with a finger-dab or two
on the drum, similar or less on the gears and some machine oil on the
pawls. I will take apart and soak/clean the winches in Varsol every other
year or so ...

ed

1982 LF38
Toronto, Canada

On 4/1/2015 9:30 AM, Robert Boyer via CnC-List wrote:

>
> Joel:  I had the same type of winch problem last year on my port jib
sheet winch.  Once I got it apart I just thoroughly cleaned it, greased it
up good, and put it back together and its been working fine since.  Sanding
is probably not necessary...
>
> Bob
>
> Bob Boyer
> S/V Rainy Days / Annapolis MD
> 1983 C&C Landfall 38 - Hull #230
>
> On Apr 1, 2015, at 9:13 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>

>> All,
>>
>> Finally got the drum off the winch with lots of PB Blaster, force, heat,
and finally, my gear/prop puller.
>>
>> There is a lot of corrosion inside the aluminum drum where the bearing
rides (went too light on the grease?).  Should I use 600 grit sandpaper to
smooth it?  Other suggestions?
>>
>> I'll be buying the big tub of winch grease this weekend!
>>
>> --
>> Joel
>> 301 541 8551 <301%20541%208551>


>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
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bottom of page at:
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>
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Re: Stus-List Any hope for this battery?

[Brent Driedger via CnC-List]

Those new Motomaster commercials showing AGM batteries surviving cold, 
splitting, etc are missing one thing, the ever present flat frozen. 
By the way Edd, that was awesome!

Brent
27-5
Lake Winnipeg (still frozen) 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 1, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Steve,
> 
> IMHO — http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/list/000/715/142/f6c.jpg 
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Edd
> 
> 
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY 
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 1, 2015, at 10:19 AM, OldSteveH via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> In October when DG came out of the water, after winterizing I carelessly
>> left the 12v power on - my cranking battery - a 1 year old Motomaster Marine
>> AGM, group 24, 75 ah.
>> When I came back a few weeks later it was flat. I took it out of the boat
>> and brought it home. It would not take a charge.
>> Over the winter I tried now and again with no luck but as of a few days ago
>> it is now charging on both the charger auto positon and at 10 amps (this
>> portable charger is for deep cycle batteries)
>> Previously the charger would show error.  However the battery gets hot. Not
>> being versed in batteries can anyone advise if it can be resuscitated? 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Steve Hood
>> S/V Diamond Girl
>> C&C 34
>> Lions Head ON
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
>> of page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> 
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Re: Stus-List Any hope for this battery?

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

Might be better to see if the warranty works.RonWild CheriC&C 30-1STL

  From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
 To: OldSteveH ; C&C List  
 Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2015 8:24 AM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Any hope for this battery?
   
Steve,
IMHO — http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/list/000/715/142/f6c.jpg 

All the best,
Edd

Edd M. SchillayStarship EnterpriseC&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-BCity Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log






 






On Apr 1, 2015, at 10:19 AM, OldSteveH via CnC-List  
wrote:
In October when DG came out of the water, after winterizing I carelessly
left the 12v power on - my cranking battery - a 1 year old Motomaster Marine
AGM, group 24, 75 ah.
When I came back a few weeks later it was flat. I took it out of the boat
and brought it home. It would not take a charge.
Over the winter I tried now and again with no luck but as of a few days ago
it is now charging on both the charger auto positon and at 10 amps (this
portable charger is for deep cycle batteries)
Previously the charger would show error.  However the battery gets hot. Not
being versed in batteries can anyone advise if it can be resuscitated? 

Thanks,

Steve Hood
S/V Diamond Girl
C&C 34
Lions Head ON





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Re: Stus-List Corrosion in winch drum

[Martin DeYoung via CnC-List]

I recommend a quick clean up to remove any trace of the aluminum/SS oxide.  I 
used diesel as a solvent any bronze wool as the abrasive.  I cleaned all 
Calypso’s winch innards with diesel (it has a bit of lubricity along with the 
solvent in case traces are left behind).

For grease I use the Lubriplate 130AA, same as for a MAX prop.  On the pawls I 
use a light oil to avoid slowing them down with grease.

If racing and not as worried about longevity (“nothing performs like a 
loaner”), spray the cleaned winch down with LPS or a similar light lube.  It 
will spin fast with low resistance but have very little corrosion protection.  
I was part of a 1981 Transpac charter of an older IOR boat with gummed up 
winches (including grinder sized Barients).  We cleaned the winches in diesel, 
sprayed them down with a light spray lube and took off for Hawaii.  Winches 
still worked great when we sailed her back to San Francisco.

Martin DeYoung
Calypso
1971 C&C 43
Seattle

[Description: Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F]

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 6:14 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Corrosion in winch drum

All,

Finally got the drum off the winch with lots of PB Blaster, force, heat, and 
finally, my gear/prop puller.

There is a lot of corrosion inside the aluminum drum where the bearing rides 
(went too light on the grease?).  Should I use 600 grit sandpaper to smooth it? 
 Other suggestions?

I'll be buying the big tub of winch grease this weekend!

--
Joel
301 541 8551
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Stus-List KVH Quadro

[Eric Baumes via CnC-List]

Fellow KVH hangers on,

A bunch of display items were put on ebay today.

Worst ads ever, but they are there.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=kvh&_sop=10&_sacat=0&_nkw=kvh+quadro&_from=R40&_trksid=m194&_osacat=0

Eric B.
34/36

Still running KVH quadro.
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Re: Stus-List KVH Quadro

[William Walker via CnC-List]

I have been looking for years and just made down payment on new Garmin system.  
I will be selling used but working parts in Late May or June.
Bill Walker
CnC 36
Pentwater, Mi 



Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 Eric Baumes via CnC-List  
wrote:

Fellow KVH hangers on, 


A bunch of display items were put on ebay today. 


Worst ads ever, but they are there. 


http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=kvh&_sop=10&_sacat=0&_nkw=kvh+quadro&_from=R40&_trksid=m194&_osacat=0
 


Eric B. 

34/36 


Still running KVH quadro. 

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Re: Stus-List KVH Quadro

[Chuck Borge via CnC-List]

I'll be in the same position once I (eventually) pull the trigger on some
new goodies, too.

Chuck B
C&C 34 Elusive
Somerset, MA


On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 7:26 PM, William Walker via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I have been looking for years and just made down payment on new Garmin
> system.  I will be selling used but working parts in Late May or June.
> Bill Walker
> CnC 36
> Pentwater, Mi
>
>
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> --
> On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 Eric Baumes via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>  Fellow KVH hangers on,
>
>  A bunch of display items were put on ebay today.
>
>  Worst ads ever, but they are there.
>
>
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=kvh&_sop=10&_sacat=0&_nkw=kvh+quadro&_from=R40&_trksid=m194&_osacat=0
>
>  Eric B.
>  34/36
>
>  Still running KVH quadro.
>  ___ Email address:
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>
>
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Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

If you are primarily on a mooring (or more specifically disconnected from
shore power) then you are fine.  The galvanic isolators prevent galvanic
currents from being conducted along the common ground wire of mutiple boats
at a marina.  Since the zincs are usually electically on the ground wire of
each boat then your zincs will be sacrificed to other boats at a lower
galvanic potential (less/no zincs).  Periodic plugging in will not
significantly deplete your zincs.  Always on shorepower charge or rather
simply always keeping the shore power cable plugged in.  Even turning the
breaker off is not enough because the ground doesn't get disconnected.  No
your promariner charger does not provide any protection.  The problem comes
from the AC ground being tied to the boat's common ground/bonding sysyem
(as required).

Forward biased diodes normally have a breakover voltage of about 0.7v.
Galvanic currents run about 1.0v...IIRC.  so taking 2 diodes and placing
them in a forward and reversed bias orientation will result in a circuit
which cunducts freely in both directions at greater than 0.7v but will not
conduct at all less than 0.7v.  If you had a lightning strike or a fault
which depended on the ground then the diodes would properly conduct and
transmit the energy to the ground on the marina's electrical system.
During all other times, the diodes are not reaching thier breakover
potential so they are not conducting the galvanic potential to (or from)
other people's boats.

But wait didn't I say the galvanic potential could reach 1.0v and the
breakover was only 0.7v?  Wouldn't that be enough to forward bias the
diode?  Yes it would be so most GIs are made with 2 forward biased diodes
in series and 2 reverse biased diodes in series.  This brings the breakover
voltage close to 1.4v which is above the 0.7v galvanic potential.  The
other thing to consider is that the diodes have to be rated at a minimum
for the forward bias current and voltage which you could expect from a
fault.  So a 30a 120v shore power connection would be diodes of equal or
greater size.

Normal diodes will fail open when their ratings are exceeded.  There are
reports of lightning strikes taking out GIs and then the boat has no ground
protection.  Modern commercial GIs are desined to fail closed and are
marketed as fail safe.  So if you have an older model or don't know what
type you have it is a good idea to test it regularly to ensure that it
still has continuity.

Again without a frequent connection via a shore power cable, there is no
reason to even have a GI.

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/galvanic_isolator

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Mar 29, 2015 4:22 PM, "David Knecht via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Hi Joe- Please educate me.  If I have a galvanic isolator, I don't know
> it.  I am on a mooring most of the time, so probably don't need one, but I
> periodically am plugged in at a dock, so is this important to have?  Am I
> correct that my Promariner charger or inverter does not include this
> function as well?  Thanks- Dave
>
> On Mar 29, 2015, at 1:22 PM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> You also left a galvanic isolator out of the diagram.
>
> See http://promariner.com/products/galvanic-isolation/prosafefs-series/
>
> These keep you from sharing your zinc out to the entire marina ;)
>
>
>
> Joe Della Barba
>
> j...@dellabarba.com
>
> Coquina
>
>
> Dr. David Knecht
> Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology
> Core Microscopy Facility Director
> University of Connecticut
> 91 N. Eagleville Rd.
> Storrs, CT 06269
> 860-486-2200
>
>
> ___
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Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Excellent summary, Josh. 

 

I recall the breakover voltage as .6 not .7, but the effect is the same. 1.2
or 1.4 volts of breakover from two diodes in series will stop the galvanic
current.

 

And for the frugal among us, and I think that covers most all sailors with
boats under about 50 feet, the price of a 1000 volt, 50 amp diode at Radio
Shack is about $2.99. Add a small project box, some wire, and a couple of
stud terminals, and you've got a homemade galvanic isolator for about
$20-25.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh
Muckley via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2015 8:23 PM
To: C&C List; David Knecht
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft

 

If you are primarily on a mooring (or more specifically disconnected from
shore power) then you are fine.  The galvanic isolators prevent galvanic
currents from being conducted along the common ground wire of mutiple boats
at a marina.  Since the zincs are usually electically on the ground wire of
each boat then your zincs will be sacrificed to other boats at a lower
galvanic potential (less/no zincs).  Periodic plugging in will not
significantly deplete your zincs.  Always on shorepower charge or rather
simply always keeping the shore power cable plugged in.  Even turning the
breaker off is not enough because the ground doesn't get disconnected.  No
your promariner charger does not provide any protection.  The problem comes
from the AC ground being tied to the boat's common ground/bonding sysyem (as
required).

Forward biased diodes normally have a breakover voltage of about 0.7v.
Galvanic currents run about 1.0v...IIRC.  so taking 2 diodes and placing
them in a forward and reversed bias orientation will result in a circuit
which cunducts freely in both directions at greater than 0.7v but will not
conduct at all less than 0.7v.  If you had a lightning strike or a fault
which depended on the ground then the diodes would properly conduct and
transmit the energy to the ground on the marina's electrical system.  During
all other times, the diodes are not reaching thier breakover potential so
they are not conducting the galvanic potential to (or from) other people's
boats.

But wait didn't I say the galvanic potential could reach 1.0v and the
breakover was only 0.7v?  Wouldn't that be enough to forward bias the diode?
Yes it would be so most GIs are made with 2 forward biased diodes in series
and 2 reverse biased diodes in series.  This brings the breakover voltage
close to 1.4v which is above the 0.7v galvanic potential.  The other thing
to consider is that the diodes have to be rated at a minimum for the forward
bias current and voltage which you could expect from a fault.  So a 30a 120v
shore power connection would be diodes of equal or greater size.  

Normal diodes will fail open when their ratings are exceeded.  There are
reports of lightning strikes taking out GIs and then the boat has no ground
protection.  Modern commercial GIs are desined to fail closed and are
marketed as fail safe.  So if you have an older model or don't know what
type you have it is a good idea to test it regularly to ensure that it still
has continuity.

Again without a frequent connection via a shore power cable, there is no
reason to even have a GI.

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/galvanic_isolator

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD 

On Mar 29, 2015 4:22 PM, "David Knecht via CnC-List" mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Hi Joe- Please educate me.  If I have a galvanic isolator, I don't know it.
I am on a mooring most of the time, so probably don't need one, but I
periodically am plugged in at a dock, so is this important to have?  Am I
correct that my Promariner charger or inverter does not include this
function as well?  Thanks- Dave

 

On Mar 29, 2015, at 1:22 PM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:





You also left a galvanic isolator out of the diagram. 

See http://promariner.com/products/galvanic-isolation/prosafefs-series/

These keep you from sharing your zinc out to the entire marina ;)

 

Joe Della Barba

j...@dellabarba.com  

Coquina

 

Dr. David Knecht

Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology

Core Microscopy Facility Director

University of Connecticut 

91 N. Eagleville Rd.

Storrs, CT 06269

860-486-2200  

 


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Re: Stus-List New Wiring Diagram Draft (Now GIs and anodes)

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Rick,

I bought welding machine rectifier diodes from mouser.  I don't remember
the price.  The wire and connectors and box cost more than the diodes.

As an alternative to GIs you can just turn off all the DC loads and
disconnect the shore power.  Plug in periodically to charge if needed or
get a small solar panel.

The only zincs I have are on the prop and shaft.  I have a "shaft saver"
from PYI which mechanically cushions the shaft and transmission.
Coincidentally it also electically isolates the shaft from the engine.  I
am mixed as to whether this is a good or bad practice but I do believe it
is enough to save my zincs.

Another zinc I forgot about is the anode in the water heater.  It cannot be
isolated so it is probably being eaten away as we speak.  I also wonder if
the metals in the engine heat exchanger would benefit from the overall
galvanic protection of the shaft zincs.  It is a 3HM35F "F" for fresh water
cooled and thus not built with any zincs.  The metals exposed to saltwater
are copper nickle to minimize corrosion but I still kinda feel like more
protection wouldn't hurt.

Thoughts?

Josh
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