Re: Stus-List AIS Transponder Info

[Steve Thomas]

And now for something completely different: a kit that will convert a spare VHF 
radio into an AIS receiver that will work with
your laptop and includes plotting software, all for under $100. Not exactly an 
off the shelf bullet proof solution, but it might
be interesting to experiment with if the thought of using a soldering iron to 
install it doesn't leave you faint. I have not tried
it, but for the price I am tempted. Most of the "black box" solutions for 
receive only are unjustifiably expensive for what they
actually contain, imho. So far in this discussion, no one has mentioned the 
possibility of using a radio with AIS already built in
by the manufacturer, which is another possible solution. Standard Horizon makes 
one, and there may be others.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AIS-receiver-plotting-navigation-package-/261288551125?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd602e2d5

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Frederick G 
Street
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 5:28 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List AIS Transponder Info


Alan -- I'd suggest the Digital Yacht AIT2000 Class B transceiver; list is 
$699.95.  Along with that, if you want to go NMEA2000
you'll need a Raymarine E55053 SeaTalk2 to NMEA2000 adapter cable, and all the 
other NMEA2000 backbone cabling (terminators, tees,
power tap, etc.); or you can just go NMEA0183 if you aren't already using your 
0183 ports on the C80.  If you need to interface
your VHF for DSC, it might be a good idea to save the 0183 ports for that and 
do NMEA2000; then you'll have at least part of the
backbone system in place for the future.


Or you could just feed the VHF from the NMEA0183 ports on the AIS transceiver; 
then you won't need to have the C80 on to get GPS
data to the VHF, just power to the AIS (which you'll want on most of the time 
anyway).


You'll also need a VHF whip for the AIS; or you can get a splitter and use your 
existing VHF antenna.  Digital Yacht makes a
splitter to go with the AIT2000; it's the SPL2000 and list is $369.95.  If 
that's the route you're going to take, I'd recommend
putting the VHF, AIS and splitter on the same breaker, so that one breaker will 
turn on everything you need to manage VHF/AIS.
Then the C80 (along with the power for the NMEA2000 bus) could live on its own 
breaker for when you want it.



I would have put the Raymarine AIS650 on the list, but you'd have to convert 
from SeaTalk2 to NMEA2000 to get to a backbone, then
convert to SeaTalkNG to get into the AIS650; and it's a couple hundred bucks 
more list than the Digital Yacht.


I can source gear for you at decent prices; let me know if you want to discuss 
further.


-- Fred




Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI


On Sep 27, 2013, at 3:31 PM, Alan Bergen  wrote:




  Fred:



  I have a C80 MFD, ST 60+ instrument displays, Autohelm depthsounder and ST50 
tridata at the nav station.  The C80 has NMEA 0183
and NMEA 2000 connections, as well as an AIS connection.



  Alan


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Re: Stus-List AIS Transponder Info

[David Knecht]

The boat I bought this spring came with a year old Standard Horizon GX2150 VHF radio with AIS that is connected to the Lowrance GPS at the helm station. I can see AIS signals on a tiny screen on the radio and on the GPS map.  DaveOn Sep 28, 2013, at 7:03 AM, Steve Thomas  wrote:






. So far in this discussion, no one has mentioned the possibility 
of using a radio with AIS already built in by the manufacturer, which is another 
possible solution. Standard Horizon makes one, and there may be others. 

 
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AIS-receiver-plotting-navigation-package-/261288551125?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd602e2d5
 
Steve 
Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

David KnechtAries1990 C&C 34+New London, CT

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Re: Stus-List Mor Child's Play

[Jonathan Boocock]

Richard,
Thanks for the kind words regarding the trip. Its great to hear of people
who read the blog.
For the type of sailing/cruising we were doing I feel as though the C&C 44
is nearly ideal.
We like to sail and sail fast where possible.
Most people enter the Caribbean from the US east coast in the BVI or St
Martin unless you island hop along the thorny path. In any case the other
islands are an upwind slog going east. I am shocked at how many people we
talked to motor sail for the majority of their eastern passages, clearly
because they have boats that don't sail upwind. Like all C&C's our boat is
a joy to sail upwind.
I have been very pleased with using an old racer/cruiser as a strong,
excellent sailing, cruising boat. Clearly we don't have the same interior
space as other boats in the same size range but we found the accommodations
adequate for the five of us (myself/wife/3 university aged kids).
The addition of solar panels over the large dodger (we have a significant
bridge deck) and the wind gen. meant we never had to run the engine for
power at sea or at anchor.

For really rough weather I had an inner forestay (tied into the 2 forward
bulkheads) and storm jib ready to go. We didn't need it for storm
conditions although I know Turicum (C&C 44 based in Vancouver) have used
the same configuration as their offshore sail arrangement for many (8?)
Vic-Maui offshore races/return passages.

As we are all aware the late IOR era hull shape can be a handfull in large
following seas although our Raymarine autopilot handled it well. If you
recall from the blogs we actually sheared the Edson aluminum autopilot
tiller arm in two in a nasty storm on a passage to St Kitts and Nevis.

Next time I need to find a way to remove some weight from the bow for
passages. Carrying a 25kg Rocna, 20kg Bruce and over 200 ft of chain in the
anchor locker of a boat with not enough buoyancy up front meant we had a
fairly significant bow down trim. It never really affected our sailing
significantly but it always bothered me. When we sail on the Great Lakes we
use 50' of chain on each anchor and that would be sufficient for any of the
places we anchored in the Caribbean/Bahamas/Bermuda.

Two (of many) hints I got from C&C 40 owner David Risch were to seal the
anchor locker from taking on water when the bow submerges and to have a
system to vent the water tank internally. I have some valves that allow us
to easily switch between venting internally or externally. It was
interesting to see not one but two "blue water" Island Packets with salt
water contaminated water tanks, the only good water being in jerry cans on
deck when we arrived in Bermuda. All three of our tanks were fine.

As for future plans, I want to go down south next year although my wife
doesn't like the long offshore passages so I will probably rely on a crew
to get the boat south.I would like to follow that up with a summer in the
Med and the following winter back in the Caribbean but we will have to
see.
Its starting to get cold in Canada now, I wish we were heading south right
now.

Wrt your starting problem. We always had an intermittent starting problem
that sometimes resulted in requiring up to 5 tries to get the engine to
start. We put up with it because the engine always started but it gradually
got worse. In Hampton on the way south I bought a spare starter motor
although the mechanic I talked to said that the wiring to the solenoid is
insufficient (ie high resistance) on many Yanmars and really requires a
relay.
We lived with the intermittent starting problem until we got back to
Annapolis on our way north when it stopped working completely. I installed
the new starter and it made no difference. The solution was to put a relay
in the starter circuit. The wiring is not sufficient to drive enough
current into the solenoid. Ever since the relay was installed we have had
no issues.
It sounds like this may be your problem, its at least worth checking

Jon
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Re: Stus-List Stus-Another engine starting problem?

[Gary Nylander]

I suspect corrosion. Clean the connections.

My lady friend's Jeep has similar problems. Drove it the other day without 
issue - let it sit a while - wouldn't start - gauges all were wacky - took off 
the (very tight) battery lugs, cleaned them and guess what? No problems. There 
must have been a fine film of corrosion between the battery and the 
connections. It has happened before so we now have a wrench, sandpaper (and 
will be adding a pair of pliers) in the glove compartment, just in case.

Gary
  - Original Message - 
  From: Richard N. Bush 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 5:41 PM
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus-Another engine starting problem?


  OK, here's my problem, please let me know the collective wisdom of the fleet! 
  I have a 1987 33-II; Yanmar 2GM; the engine has been running fine for the 
past two years (which is as long as I've owned it); standard routine 
maintenance and winterization (oil and filter replaced); batteries in good 
condition;

  Today we had to motor for about 2 hours, running at 2400 rpms, at 6.3 knots, 
with no issues. We docked at a restaurant for about 1/2 hour or so, and then 
when we went to restart the engine, the alarm whistle went on but nothing else, 
the engine would not turn over, or even "click"; after several tries, we tried 
tapping on the starter with the end of a screw driver while pushing the start 
switch, and presto, the engine started immediately!  So, is this the same issue 
as has been recently discussed, (insufficient wiring to the switch, poor 
grounding to the engine, etc) or something else?   If more info is needed, let 
me know, and I'll gladly provide...

  This has never happened before so we were surprised when it happened.  Many 
thanks for all your help.
  Richard
  1987 33-II; Ohio River, Mile 684;




  Richard N. Bush Law Offices 
  2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite 9
  Louisville, Kentucky 40220 
  502-584-7255

  CnC-List@cnc-list.c


--


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Re: Stus-List AIS Transponder Info

[Colin Kilgour]

Steve,

Looks like a cool project - for those who have time and ability for
that kind of stuff.

As for 'cost justifying' AIS, it really depends on the sailing you do.
 If you're mostly sailing away from major shipping areas, an AIS
receiver can feel more like a gadget than a tool - and therefore hard
to justify.

If you're sailing offshore or in shipping areas though, it's pretty
much the most cost effective safety tool you can have on the boat,
imo. You can get a receiver for about the same price as a fancy PFD
and you'll get a heluva lot more utility out of your AIS than your
Spinlock life vest.  (Btw - not saying you shouldn't wear a life vest,
just that cheaper ones float just as well as expensive ones)

(Disclosure: fwiw, I've done about 10,000 offshore miles with AIS
reception on board and it's been really helpful on many occasions)

Cheers
Colin


On 9/28/13, Steve Thomas  wrote:
> And now for something completely different: a kit that will convert a spare
> VHF radio into an AIS receiver that will work with
> your laptop and includes plotting software, all for under $100. Not exactly
> an off the shelf bullet proof solution, but it might
> be interesting to experiment with if the thought of using a soldering iron
> to install it doesn't leave you faint. I have not tried
> it, but for the price I am tempted. Most of the "black box" solutions for
> receive only are unjustifiably expensive for what they
> actually contain, imho. So far in this discussion, no one has mentioned the
> possibility of using a radio with AIS already built in
> by the manufacturer, which is another possible solution. Standard Horizon
> makes one, and there may be others.
>
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AIS-receiver-plotting-navigation-package-/261288551125?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd602e2d5
>
> Steve Thomas
> C&C27 MKIII
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Frederick
> G Street
> Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 5:28 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List AIS Transponder Info
>
>
> Alan -- I'd suggest the Digital Yacht AIT2000 Class B transceiver; list is
> $699.95.  Along with that, if you want to go NMEA2000
> you'll need a Raymarine E55053 SeaTalk2 to NMEA2000 adapter cable, and all
> the other NMEA2000 backbone cabling (terminators, tees,
> power tap, etc.); or you can just go NMEA0183 if you aren't already using
> your 0183 ports on the C80.  If you need to interface
> your VHF for DSC, it might be a good idea to save the 0183 ports for that
> and do NMEA2000; then you'll have at least part of the
> backbone system in place for the future.
>
>
> Or you could just feed the VHF from the NMEA0183 ports on the AIS
> transceiver; then you won't need to have the C80 on to get GPS
> data to the VHF, just power to the AIS (which you'll want on most of the
> time anyway).
>
>
> You'll also need a VHF whip for the AIS; or you can get a splitter and use
> your existing VHF antenna.  Digital Yacht makes a
> splitter to go with the AIT2000; it's the SPL2000 and list is $369.95.  If
> that's the route you're going to take, I'd recommend
> putting the VHF, AIS and splitter on the same breaker, so that one breaker
> will turn on everything you need to manage VHF/AIS.
> Then the C80 (along with the power for the NMEA2000 bus) could live on its
> own breaker for when you want it.
>
>
>
> I would have put the Raymarine AIS650 on the list, but you'd have to convert
> from SeaTalk2 to NMEA2000 to get to a backbone, then
> convert to SeaTalkNG to get into the AIS650; and it's a couple hundred bucks
> more list than the Digital Yacht.
>
>
> I can source gear for you at decent prices; let me know if you want to
> discuss further.
>
>
> -- Fred
>
>
>
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>
>
> On Sep 27, 2013, at 3:31 PM, Alan Bergen  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>   Fred:
>
>
>
>   I have a C80 MFD, ST 60+ instrument displays, Autohelm depthsounder and
> ST50 tridata at the nav station.  The C80 has NMEA 0183
> and NMEA 2000 connections, as well as an AIS connection.
>
>
>
>   Alan
>
>
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

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Re: Stus-List AIS Transponder Info

[Andrew Burton]

For offshore sailing, I find AIS more useful than radar. My mate who drives the 
fast ferry says in the fog, he wishes all boats transmitted on AIS. I'm not 
sure that wouldn't be overcrowding the screen, but he's pretty adamant.
Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Sep 28, 2013, at 9:26, Colin Kilgour  wrote:

> Steve,
> 
> Looks like a cool project - for those who have time and ability for
> that kind of stuff.
> 
> As for 'cost justifying' AIS, it really depends on the sailing you do.
> If you're mostly sailing away from major shipping areas, an AIS
> receiver can feel more like a gadget than a tool - and therefore hard
> to justify.
> 
> If you're sailing offshore or in shipping areas though, it's pretty
> much the most cost effective safety tool you can have on the boat,
> imo. You can get a receiver for about the same price as a fancy PFD
> and you'll get a heluva lot more utility out of your AIS than your
> Spinlock life vest.  (Btw - not saying you shouldn't wear a life vest,
> just that cheaper ones float just as well as expensive ones)
> 
> (Disclosure: fwiw, I've done about 10,000 offshore miles with AIS
> reception on board and it's been really helpful on many occasions)
> 
> Cheers
> Colin
> 
> 
> On 9/28/13, Steve Thomas  wrote:
>> And now for something completely different: a kit that will convert a spare
>> VHF radio into an AIS receiver that will work with
>> your laptop and includes plotting software, all for under $100. Not exactly
>> an off the shelf bullet proof solution, but it might
>> be interesting to experiment with if the thought of using a soldering iron
>> to install it doesn't leave you faint. I have not tried
>> it, but for the price I am tempted. Most of the "black box" solutions for
>> receive only are unjustifiably expensive for what they
>> actually contain, imho. So far in this discussion, no one has mentioned the
>> possibility of using a radio with AIS already built in
>> by the manufacturer, which is another possible solution. Standard Horizon
>> makes one, and there may be others.
>> 
>> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AIS-receiver-plotting-navigation-package-/261288551125?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd602e2d5
>> 
>> Steve Thomas
>> C&C27 MKIII
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Frederick
>> G Street
>> Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 5:28 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List AIS Transponder Info
>> 
>> 
>> Alan -- I'd suggest the Digital Yacht AIT2000 Class B transceiver; list is
>> $699.95.  Along with that, if you want to go NMEA2000
>> you'll need a Raymarine E55053 SeaTalk2 to NMEA2000 adapter cable, and all
>> the other NMEA2000 backbone cabling (terminators, tees,
>> power tap, etc.); or you can just go NMEA0183 if you aren't already using
>> your 0183 ports on the C80.  If you need to interface
>> your VHF for DSC, it might be a good idea to save the 0183 ports for that
>> and do NMEA2000; then you'll have at least part of the
>> backbone system in place for the future.
>> 
>> 
>> Or you could just feed the VHF from the NMEA0183 ports on the AIS
>> transceiver; then you won't need to have the C80 on to get GPS
>> data to the VHF, just power to the AIS (which you'll want on most of the
>> time anyway).
>> 
>> 
>> You'll also need a VHF whip for the AIS; or you can get a splitter and use
>> your existing VHF antenna.  Digital Yacht makes a
>> splitter to go with the AIT2000; it's the SPL2000 and list is $369.95.  If
>> that's the route you're going to take, I'd recommend
>> putting the VHF, AIS and splitter on the same breaker, so that one breaker
>> will turn on everything you need to manage VHF/AIS.
>> Then the C80 (along with the power for the NMEA2000 bus) could live on its
>> own breaker for when you want it.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I would have put the Raymarine AIS650 on the list, but you'd have to convert
>> from SeaTalk2 to NMEA2000 to get to a backbone, then
>> convert to SeaTalkNG to get into the AIS650; and it's a couple hundred bucks
>> more list than the Digital Yacht.
>> 
>> 
>> I can source gear for you at decent prices; let me know if you want to
>> discuss further.
>> 
>> 
>> -- Fred
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 27, 2013, at 3:31 PM, Alan Bergen  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  Fred:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  I have a C80 MFD, ST 60+ instrument displays, Autohelm depthsounder and
>> ST50 tridata at the nav station.  The C80 has NMEA 0183
>> and NMEA 2000 connections, as well as an AIS connection.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  Alan
> 
> -- 
> Sent from my mobile device
> 
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Re: Stus-List AIS Transponder Info

[Steve Thomas]

Colin,
   I agree with everything you say in your post, but my complaint about 
cost is not about value to the sailor. It is hard to
put a value on avoiding a collision at sea. If the only way to manufacture an 
AIS receiver was with some sort of unobtanium that
resulted in an unavoidable cost of thousands of dollars per unit, they would 
still be worth it to those who could pay for them.
   My complaint is that an AIS receiver is a pretty simple device, based on 
pre-existing technology, and the cost of manufacture
does not in my opinion justify the high prices being charged by some vendors. 
In their simplest form, AIS receivers consist of a 1
or 2 channel VHF receiver coupled with a modem to decode the sentences. True 
the market is somewhat limited in volume but I still
think that boaters are getting gouged when they pay some of the prices being 
asked.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Colin
Kilgour
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 9:27 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List AIS Transponder Info


Steve,

Looks like a cool project - for those who have time and ability for
that kind of stuff.

As for 'cost justifying' AIS, it really depends on the sailing you do.
 If you're mostly sailing away from major shipping areas, an AIS
receiver can feel more like a gadget than a tool - and therefore hard
to justify.

If you're sailing offshore or in shipping areas though, it's pretty
much the most cost effective safety tool you can have on the boat,
imo. You can get a receiver for about the same price as a fancy PFD
and you'll get a heluva lot more utility out of your AIS than your
Spinlock life vest.  (Btw - not saying you shouldn't wear a life vest,
just that cheaper ones float just as well as expensive ones)

(Disclosure: fwiw, I've done about 10,000 offshore miles with AIS
reception on board and it's been really helpful on many occasions)

Cheers
Colin


On 9/28/13, Steve Thomas  wrote:
> And now for something completely different: a kit that will convert a spare
> VHF radio into an AIS receiver that will work with
> your laptop and includes plotting software, all for under $100. Not exactly
> an off the shelf bullet proof solution, but it might
> be interesting to experiment with if the thought of using a soldering iron
> to install it doesn't leave you faint. I have not tried
> it, but for the price I am tempted. Most of the "black box" solutions for
> receive only are unjustifiably expensive for what they
> actually contain, imho. So far in this discussion, no one has mentioned the
> possibility of using a radio with AIS already built in
> by the manufacturer, which is another possible solution. Standard Horizon
> makes one, and there may be others.
>
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AIS-receiver-plotting-navigation-package-/261288551125?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd602e2d5
>
> Steve Thomas
> C&C27 MKIII
>
>
>


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Re: Stus-List Mor Child's Play

[Richard N. Bush]

Jon, thank you for the info; whenever and wherever you decide to go, please be 
sure to send blog updates; and for those of us on this list, include all the 
boat and technical info,  many thanks.


Richard
1987 33-II; Ohio River Mi. 584


Richard N. Bush Law Offices 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite 9
Louisville, Kentucky 40220 
502-584-7255



-Original Message-
From: Jonathan Boocock 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Sat, Sep 28, 2013 9:18 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mor Child's Play


Richard, 
Thanks for the kind words regarding the trip. Its great to hear of people who 
read the blog.
For the type of sailing/cruising we were doing I feel as though the C&C 44 is 
nearly ideal.
We like to sail and sail fast where possible.
Most people enter the Caribbean from the US east coast in the BVI or St Martin 
unless you island hop along the thorny path. In any case the other islands are 
an upwind slog going east. I am shocked at how many people we talked to motor 
sail for the majority of their eastern passages, clearly because they have 
boats that don't sail upwind. Like all C&C's our boat is a joy to sail upwind.
I have been very pleased with using an old racer/cruiser as a strong, excellent 
sailing, cruising boat. Clearly we don't have the same interior space as other 
boats in the same size range but we found the accommodations adequate for the 
five of us (myself/wife/3 university aged kids).
The addition of solar panels over the large dodger (we have a significant 
bridge deck) and the wind gen. meant we never had to run the engine for power 
at sea or at anchor.


For really rough weather I had an inner forestay (tied into the 2 forward 
bulkheads) and storm jib ready to go. We didn't need it for storm conditions 
although I know Turicum (C&C 44 based in Vancouver) have used the same 
configuration as their offshore sail arrangement for many (8?) Vic-Maui 
offshore races/return passages.


As we are all aware the late IOR era hull shape can be a handfull in large 
following seas although our Raymarine autopilot handled it well. If you recall 
from the blogs we actually sheared the Edson aluminum autopilot tiller arm in 
two in a nasty storm on a passage to St Kitts and Nevis.


Next time I need to find a way to remove some weight from the bow for passages. 
Carrying a 25kg Rocna, 20kg Bruce and over 200 ft of chain in the anchor locker 
of a boat with not enough buoyancy up front meant we had a fairly significant 
bow down trim. It never really affected our sailing significantly but it always 
bothered me. When we sail on the Great Lakes we use 50' of chain on each anchor 
and that would be sufficient for any of the places we anchored in the 
Caribbean/Bahamas/Bermuda. 


Two (of many) hints I got from C&C 40 owner David Risch were to seal the anchor 
locker from taking on water when the bow submerges and to have a system to vent 
the water tank internally. I have some valves that allow us to easily switch 
between venting internally or externally. It was interesting to see not one but 
two "blue water" Island Packets with salt water contaminated water tanks, the 
only good water being in jerry cans on deck when we arrived in Bermuda. All 
three of our tanks were fine. 


As for future plans, I want to go down south next year although my wife doesn't 
like the long offshore passages so I will probably rely on a crew to get the 
boat south.I would like to follow that up with a summer in the Med and the 
following winter back in the Caribbean but we will have to see.
Its starting to get cold in Canada now, I wish we were heading south right now.


Wrt your starting problem. We always had an intermittent starting problem that 
sometimes resulted in requiring up to 5 tries to get the engine to start. We 
put up with it because the engine always started but it gradually got worse. In 
Hampton on the way south I bought a spare starter motor although the mechanic I 
talked to said that the wiring to the solenoid is insufficient (ie high 
resistance) on many Yanmars and really requires a relay.
We lived with the intermittent starting problem until we got back to Annapolis 
on our way north when it stopped working completely. I installed the new 
starter and it made no difference. The solution was to put a relay in the 
starter circuit. The wiring is not sufficient to drive enough current into the 
solenoid. Ever since the relay was installed we have had no issues.
It sounds like this may be your problem, its at least worth checking


Jon










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Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Dr. Mark Bodnar]

  
  

  I keep a small cheap solar panel on my boat during the summer.
  My alternator on my outboard is not functioning - so that is the
  only charge for my batteries.  With only day sailing and the rare
  overnight it seems to keep battery in good shape - but obviously
  mine battery is not really challenged running a radio and VHF a
  few hrs per week.
  
  Regarding Marek's comment on MaineSail - I just stumbled across a
  post of his on Sailboat Owners forum.
  http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=156220
  He was testing a battery for winter discharge - found after 2
  months the battery did great with no extra charge in cold weather.
  He then forgot about it - didn't re-check until after a 9mo - hot
  Maine summer, but the battery was still in very good condition. 
  Sounds like fully charged but disconnected is a good option.
  
  Mark
  -
  Dr. Mark Bodnar
B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C)
Bedford Chiropractic
www.bedfordchiro.ca
-

There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana
  On 26/09/2013 10:10 PM, Marek Dziedzic wrote:


  

  Rich,
   
  I +1 the PowerFilm solar
  panels. I bought a 21W panel and a two-battery controller 
  (Morningstar) from Defender this spring and the system
  worked quite well over the summer. The panel was installed
  over a bimini (you can tie it or use snaps (like the ones
  for the dodger)).
   
  I believe that flexible ones
  are better (same thing as Edd says).
   
  Make sure that you buy a
  good controller; this is what makes or breaks the system.
  You may want to read Maine Sail’s musings on controllers
  and how they affect the charging time. 
   
  The Genasun is supposedly
  one of the better ones, though i am quite happy with the
  Morningstar.
   
  Good luck
   
  Marek (in Ottawa).
   
  ___
  Message: 2
  Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 12:42:56 -0400
  From: Edd Schillay     
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Solar
  panels
  Message-ID: <5773b53a-3b21-4af5-8589-cc51c5bdd...@schillay.com>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
  
  Rich,
  
  I've installed a PowerFilm solar panel on the Enterprise
  years ago along with a two-battery regulator. I think the
  flexible panels are best because the solid ones tend to
  crack and break. The panel sits on top of my companionway
  hatch during the warmer months but I move it to a southern
  exposure angle during the winter so snow won't pile up on
  it. 
  
  PowerFilm link: http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1%7C328%7C2290044%7C2290048&id=1206968
Controler / Regulator Link: http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C328%7C2290044%7C2290047&id=1802202 
  
  
  
  All the best,
  
  Edd
  
  
  Edd M. Schillay
  Starship Enterprise
  C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
  City Island, NY 
  Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Web

  
  
  
  
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Stus-List New boat - NOT

[Dr. Mark Bodnar]

So the new boat is a bust!

I was thinking I had a chance to get a great deal, a boat in fair 
condition for a good price, just in need of some cosmetic cleaning etc.


Unfortunately no.  Surveyor found the boat was full of mold, cushions 
wet and moldy, stove rusted beyond repair, bilge full of rain water, 
manual bilge pump not functional, anchors rusted to point of needing 
replacement,   Plus the usual minor issues - scrapes and scuffs in the 
gel coat etc.
With the bilge full of water the surveyor was unable to properly check 
the keel bolts or the mast step.
All told, just does not make sense.  And yes, I know, a few people on 
this list warned me of exactly these issues, but I couldn't help from 
trying to find that great deal where you catch a seller at just the 
right time.
Thanks for the advice and offers of assistance.  Rich had offered to 
help sail the boat back


Now I'm back looking at the CS 30 I posted.  More expensive, but boat 
looks in much better condition.  Bill, I appreciate the personal 
recommendation with the broker.  Discussed the boat with him, he says it 
has a few cosmetic issues but that the owner died last winter and the 
adult, non-sailing, children are selling the boat.  He feels they will 
likely be open to an offer given the boat will start costing them winter 
storage fees within a few weeks.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1988/Cs-30-2638685/Hingham/MA/United-States#.Ukb-NYasiM4

If it does go ahead I don't want to take that much time off work to sail 
the boat all the way home, but I have a local skipper who I was 
organizing to bring back the C&C29, and we should be able to organize 
getting the boat home in mid Oct if I go ahead with the CS.  I'm hoping 
if we time it right that I can drive down to Yarmouth and hop on the 
boat with him to bring it up the coast of NS.


We'll see how it goes.  I'm still willing to stick with my little Mirage 
24 if I can't find the right deal.


Mark

--

-
  Dr. Mark Bodnar
B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C)
Bedford Chiropractic
www.bedfordchiro.ca
-

There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana


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Re: Stus-List re solar panels

[Wally Bryant]

Speaking of echo chargers.  The Heart/Xantrex Freedom Marine 
charger/inverters have internal echo chargers.  If you replace one of 
those chargers, or see one in a marina dumpster, pull the cover off.  
The internal echo charger is just like the standalone units without the 
fancy cover, and is bolted to a heat sink, held on by only four screws.  
The wires are marked exactly the same as the standalone units.  Chances 
are the echo charger is fine, and is worth a hundred bucks or so.


Wal


Stevan Plavsa wrote:

Or you could get a Xantrex echo charger or blue sea ACR (auto charge
relay). (for charging two batteries)



--
s/v Stella Blue
www.wbryant.com


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Re: Stus-List New boat - NOT

[j...@svpaws.net]

Certainly a lot more boat that what you described of the "bargain" boat.  Good 
luck.  I would be a little cautious of the obvious DIY upgrades but overall a 
nice looking boat.

John


Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 28, 2013, at 12:05 PM, "Dr. Mark Bodnar"  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> So the new boat is a bust!
> 
> I was thinking I had a chance to get a great deal, a boat in fair condition 
> for a good price, just in need of some cosmetic cleaning etc.
> 
> Unfortunately no.  Surveyor found the boat was full of mold, cushions wet and 
> moldy, stove rusted beyond repair, bilge full of rain water, manual bilge 
> pump not functional, anchors rusted to point of needing replacement,   Plus 
> the usual minor issues - scrapes and scuffs in the gel coat etc.
> With the bilge full of water the surveyor was unable to properly check the 
> keel bolts or the mast step.
> All told, just does not make sense.  And yes, I know, a few people on this 
> list warned me of exactly these issues, but I couldn't help from trying to 
> find that great deal where you catch a seller at just the right time.
> Thanks for the advice and offers of assistance.  Rich had offered to help 
> sail the boat back
> 
> Now I'm back looking at the CS 30 I posted.  More expensive, but boat looks 
> in much better condition.  Bill, I appreciate the personal recommendation 
> with the broker.  Discussed the boat with him, he says it has a few cosmetic 
> issues but that the owner died last winter and the adult, non-sailing, 
> children are selling the boat.  He feels they will likely be open to an offer 
> given the boat will start costing them winter storage fees within a few weeks.
> http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1988/Cs-30-2638685/Hingham/MA/United-States#.Ukb-NYasiM4
> 
> If it does go ahead I don't want to take that much time off work to sail the 
> boat all the way home, but I have a local skipper who I was organizing to 
> bring back the C&C29, and we should be able to organize getting the boat home 
> in mid Oct if I go ahead with the CS.  I'm hoping if we time it right that I 
> can drive down to Yarmouth and hop on the boat with him to bring it up the 
> coast of NS.
> 
> We'll see how it goes.  I'm still willing to stick with my little Mirage 24 
> if I can't find the right deal.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -- 
> 
> -
>  Dr. Mark Bodnar
> B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C)
> Bedford Chiropractic
> www.bedfordchiro.ca
> -
> 
> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
>  - George Santayana
> 
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com

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Re: Stus-List AIS Info

[Russ & Melody]

Hi Steve,

Try this site for low cost solutions:
http://www.discriminator.nl/index-en.html
It might be worth your while to try it, considering all the older VHF 
radios that are kicking around now. One ends up on the yacht club's 
FREE table every month it seems.


I started a project on an old Motorola industrial radio (should have 
been simple as it is software configurable and the pin connections 
have the correct discriminator output) but I gave up because 
Binnacle.ca had a new ACR unit, 2 channel,  on sale for a hundred bucks.
I might try rejuvenating the old Motorola project in the dark days of 
winter just for fun.


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

At 07:06 AM 28/09/2013, you wrote:

Colin,
   I agree with everything you say in your post, but my 
complaint about cost is not about value to the sailor. It is hard to
put a value on avoiding a collision at sea. If the only way to 
manufacture an AIS receiver was with some sort of unobtanium that
resulted in an unavoidable cost of thousands of dollars per unit, 
they would still be worth it to those who could pay for them.
   My complaint is that an AIS receiver is a pretty simple device, 
based on pre-existing technology, and the cost of manufacture
does not in my opinion justify the high prices being charged by some 
vendors. In their simplest form, AIS receivers consist of a 1
or 2 channel VHF receiver coupled with a modem to decode the 
sentences. True the market is somewhat limited in volume but I still
think that boaters are getting gouged when they pay some of the 
prices being asked.


Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Colin
Kilgour
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 9:27 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List AIS Transponder Info


Steve,

Looks like a cool project - for those who have time and ability for
that kind of stuff.

As for 'cost justifying' AIS, it really depends on the sailing you do.
 If you're mostly sailing away from major shipping areas, an AIS
receiver can feel more like a gadget than a tool - and therefore hard
to justify.

If you're sailing offshore or in shipping areas though, it's pretty
much the most cost effective safety tool you can have on the boat,
imo. You can get a receiver for about the same price as a fancy PFD
and you'll get a heluva lot more utility out of your AIS than your
Spinlock life vest.  (Btw - not saying you shouldn't wear a life vest,
just that cheaper ones float just as well as expensive ones)

(Disclosure: fwiw, I've done about 10,000 offshore miles with AIS
reception on board and it's been really helpful on many occasions)

Cheers
Colin


On 9/28/13, Steve Thomas  wrote:
> And now for something completely different: a kit that will convert a spare
> VHF radio into an AIS receiver that will work with
> your laptop and includes plotting software, all for under $100. Not exactly
> an off the shelf bullet proof solution, but it might
> be interesting to experiment with if the thought of using a soldering iron
> to install it doesn't leave you faint. I have not tried
> it, but for the price I am tempted. Most of the "black box" solutions for
> receive only are unjustifiably expensive for what they
> actually contain, imho. So far in this discussion, no one has mentioned the
> possibility of using a radio with AIS already built in
> by the manufacturer, which is another possible solution. Standard Horizon
> makes one, and there may be others.
>
> 
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AIS-receiver-plotting-navigation-package-/261288551125?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd602e2d5

>
> Steve Thomas
> C&C27 MKIII
>
>
>


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Re: Stus-List Mor Child's Play

[Fred Hazzard]

Jonathan:

 

Interesting advice on sailing a 44 offshore.   I am leaving in 2 weeks to
sail to Mexico for the winter.   

 

Can you tell me more about the inside tank venting valves?   I found 2 caps
from the previous owner in a bag saying vent caps.   While I could use them
how would I vent the tanks?

 

I am also interested in the relay you put in the starter circuit.  I have
just experienced a starting problem.   Wouldn't start,  waited awhile and
started right up.   What relay did you use and how was it wired?

 

Any other wisdom you can pass along will be appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Fred Hazzard

S/V Fury

C&C 44

Portland, Or

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan
Boocock
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 6:17 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mor Child's Play

 

Richard, 

Thanks for the kind words regarding the trip. Its great to hear of people
who read the blog.

For the type of sailing/cruising we were doing I feel as though the C&C 44
is nearly ideal.

We like to sail and sail fast where possible.

Most people enter the Caribbean from the US east coast in the BVI or St
Martin unless you island hop along the thorny path. In any case the other
islands are an upwind slog going east. I am shocked at how many people we
talked to motor sail for the majority of their eastern passages, clearly
because they have boats that don't sail upwind. Like all C&C's our boat is a
joy to sail upwind.

I have been very pleased with using an old racer/cruiser as a strong,
excellent sailing, cruising boat. Clearly we don't have the same interior
space as other boats in the same size range but we found the accommodations
adequate for the five of us (myself/wife/3 university aged kids).

The addition of solar panels over the large dodger (we have a significant
bridge deck) and the wind gen. meant we never had to run the engine for
power at sea or at anchor.

 

For really rough weather I had an inner forestay (tied into the 2 forward
bulkheads) and storm jib ready to go. We didn't need it for storm conditions
although I know Turicum (C&C 44 based in Vancouver) have used the same
configuration as their offshore sail arrangement for many (8?) Vic-Maui
offshore races/return passages.

 

As we are all aware the late IOR era hull shape can be a handfull in large
following seas although our Raymarine autopilot handled it well. If you
recall from the blogs we actually sheared the Edson aluminum autopilot
tiller arm in two in a nasty storm on a passage to St Kitts and Nevis.

 

Next time I need to find a way to remove some weight from the bow for
passages. Carrying a 25kg Rocna, 20kg Bruce and over 200 ft of chain in the
anchor locker of a boat with not enough buoyancy up front meant we had a
fairly significant bow down trim. It never really affected our sailing
significantly but it always bothered me. When we sail on the Great Lakes we
use 50' of chain on each anchor and that would be sufficient for any of the
places we anchored in the Caribbean/Bahamas/Bermuda. 

 

Two (of many) hints I got from C&C 40 owner David Risch were to seal the
anchor locker from taking on water when the bow submerges and to have a
system to vent the water tank internally. I have some valves that allow us
to easily switch between venting internally or externally. It was
interesting to see not one but two "blue water" Island Packets with salt
water contaminated water tanks, the only good water being in jerry cans on
deck when we arrived in Bermuda. All three of our tanks were fine. 

 

As for future plans, I want to go down south next year although my wife
doesn't like the long offshore passages so I will probably rely on a crew to
get the boat south.I would like to follow that up with a summer in the Med
and the following winter back in the Caribbean but we will have to see.

Its starting to get cold in Canada now, I wish we were heading south right
now.

 

Wrt your starting problem. We always had an intermittent starting problem
that sometimes resulted in requiring up to 5 tries to get the engine to
start. We put up with it because the engine always started but it gradually
got worse. In Hampton on the way south I bought a spare starter motor
although the mechanic I talked to said that the wiring to the solenoid is
insufficient (ie high resistance) on many Yanmars and really requires a
relay.

We lived with the intermittent starting problem until we got back to
Annapolis on our way north when it stopped working completely. I installed
the new starter and it made no difference. The solution was to put a relay
in the starter circuit. The wiring is not sufficient to drive enough current
into the solenoid. Ever since the relay was installed we have had no issues.

It sounds like this may be your problem, its at least worth checking

 

Jon

 

 

 

 

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C

Re: Stus-List New boat - NOT

[Brent Driedger]

The photos of the CS don't raise my red flags like the 29 did. She looks like a 
nice boat. Good luck with her. 

Brent
27-5
Lake Winnipeg 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 28, 2013, at 11:16 AM, "j...@svpaws.net"  wrote:
> 
> Certainly a lot more boat that what you described of the "bargain" boat.  
> Good luck.  I would be a little cautious of the obvious DIY upgrades but 
> overall a nice looking boat.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Sep 28, 2013, at 12:05 PM, "Dr. Mark Bodnar"  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> So the new boat is a bust!
>> 
>> I was thinking I had a chance to get a great deal, a boat in fair condition 
>> for a good price, just in need of some cosmetic cleaning etc.
>> 
>> Unfortunately no.  Surveyor found the boat was full of mold, cushions wet 
>> and moldy, stove rusted beyond repair, bilge full of rain water, manual 
>> bilge pump not functional, anchors rusted to point of needing replacement,   
>> Plus the usual minor issues - scrapes and scuffs in the gel coat etc.
>> With the bilge full of water the surveyor was unable to properly check the 
>> keel bolts or the mast step.
>> All told, just does not make sense.  And yes, I know, a few people on this 
>> list warned me of exactly these issues, but I couldn't help from trying to 
>> find that great deal where you catch a seller at just the right time.
>> Thanks for the advice and offers of assistance.  Rich had offered to help 
>> sail the boat back
>> 
>> Now I'm back looking at the CS 30 I posted.  More expensive, but boat looks 
>> in much better condition.  Bill, I appreciate the personal recommendation 
>> with the broker.  Discussed the boat with him, he says it has a few cosmetic 
>> issues but that the owner died last winter and the adult, non-sailing, 
>> children are selling the boat.  He feels they will likely be open to an 
>> offer given the boat will start costing them winter storage fees within a 
>> few weeks.
>> http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1988/Cs-30-2638685/Hingham/MA/United-States#.Ukb-NYasiM4
>> 
>> If it does go ahead I don't want to take that much time off work to sail the 
>> boat all the way home, but I have a local skipper who I was organizing to 
>> bring back the C&C29, and we should be able to organize getting the boat 
>> home in mid Oct if I go ahead with the CS.  I'm hoping if we time it right 
>> that I can drive down to Yarmouth and hop on the boat with him to bring it 
>> up the coast of NS.
>> 
>> We'll see how it goes.  I'm still willing to stick with my little Mirage 24 
>> if I can't find the right deal.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> -
>> Dr. Mark Bodnar
>> B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C)
>> Bedford Chiropractic
>> www.bedfordchiro.ca
>> -
>> 
>> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
>> - George Santayana
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com

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Re: Stus-List Mor Child's Play

[Knowles Rich]

I'm not sure if I said this before, but if the solenoid firing problem can be 
traced to the wire from the switch to the solenoid, I suggest first looking at 
the connection plug in the engine harness. Eliminate the  connectors by making 
crimped connections for each wire in the harness. If the wire itself is bad, 
run a new wire. Putting in a relay is a band aid solution. 

Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax

On Sep 28, 2013, at 14:17, "Fred Hazzard"  wrote:

Jonathan:
 
Interesting advice on sailing a 44 offshore.   I am leaving in 2 weeks to sail 
to Mexico for the winter.  
 
Can you tell me more about the inside tank venting valves?   I found 2 caps 
from the previous owner in a bag saying vent caps.   While I could use them how 
would I vent the tanks?
 
I am also interested in the relay you put in the starter circuit.  I have just 
experienced a starting problem.   Wouldn’t start,  waited awhile and started 
right up.   What relay did you use and how was it wired?
 
Any other wisdom you can pass along will be appreciated.
 
Thanks
 
Fred Hazzard
S/V Fury
C&C 44
Portland, Or
 
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan 
Boocock
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 6:17 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mor Child's Play
 
Richard, 
Thanks for the kind words regarding the trip. Its great to hear of people who 
read the blog.
For the type of sailing/cruising we were doing I feel as though the C&C 44 is 
nearly ideal.
We like to sail and sail fast where possible.
Most people enter the Caribbean from the US east coast in the BVI or St Martin 
unless you island hop along the thorny path. In any case the other islands are 
an upwind slog going east. I am shocked at how many people we talked to motor 
sail for the majority of their eastern passages, clearly because they have 
boats that don't sail upwind. Like all C&C's our boat is a joy to sail upwind.
I have been very pleased with using an old racer/cruiser as a strong, excellent 
sailing, cruising boat. Clearly we don't have the same interior space as other 
boats in the same size range but we found the accommodations adequate for the 
five of us (myself/wife/3 university aged kids).
The addition of solar panels over the large dodger (we have a significant 
bridge deck) and the wind gen. meant we never had to run the engine for power 
at sea or at anchor.
 
For really rough weather I had an inner forestay (tied into the 2 forward 
bulkheads) and storm jib ready to go. We didn't need it for storm conditions 
although I know Turicum (C&C 44 based in Vancouver) have used the same 
configuration as their offshore sail arrangement for many (8?) Vic-Maui 
offshore races/return passages.
 
As we are all aware the late IOR era hull shape can be a handfull in large 
following seas although our Raymarine autopilot handled it well. If you recall 
from the blogs we actually sheared the Edson aluminum autopilot tiller arm in 
two in a nasty storm on a passage to St Kitts and Nevis.
 
Next time I need to find a way to remove some weight from the bow for passages. 
Carrying a 25kg Rocna, 20kg Bruce and over 200 ft of chain in the anchor locker 
of a boat with not enough buoyancy up front meant we had a fairly significant 
bow down trim. It never really affected our sailing significantly but it always 
bothered me. When we sail on the Great Lakes we use 50' of chain on each anchor 
and that would be sufficient for any of the places we anchored in the 
Caribbean/Bahamas/Bermuda. 
 
Two (of many) hints I got from C&C 40 owner David Risch were to seal the anchor 
locker from taking on water when the bow submerges and to have a system to vent 
the water tank internally. I have some valves that allow us to easily switch 
between venting internally or externally. It was interesting to see not one but 
two "blue water" Island Packets with salt water contaminated water tanks, the 
only good water being in jerry cans on deck when we arrived in Bermuda. All 
three of our tanks were fine. 
 
As for future plans, I want to go down south next year although my wife doesn't 
like the long offshore passages so I will probably rely on a crew to get the 
boat south.I would like to follow that up with a summer in the Med and the 
following winter back in the Caribbean but we will have to see.
Its starting to get cold in Canada now, I wish we were heading south right now.
 
Wrt your starting problem. We always had an intermittent starting problem that 
sometimes resulted in requiring up to 5 tries to get the engine to start. We 
put up with it because the engine always started but it gradually got worse. In 
Hampton on the way south I bought a spare starter motor although the mechanic I 
talked to said that the wiring to the solenoid is insufficient (ie high 
resistance) on many Yanmars and really requires a relay.
We lived with the intermittent starting problem until we got back to Annapolis 
on our way north when it stopped working com

Re: Stus-List New boat - NOT

[Dr. Mark Bodnar]

Yes.  I was ignoring the red flags that were trying to warn me.  I 
figured she would be a bit dirty and need some TLC.  Discussion with 
seller sounded good, thought it was worth a try, heck, if it had worked 
out I would have had the boat for 1/2 what they are asking locally even 
after transport.
Told seller I'm out - he seems surprised by the condition, I'm guessing 
nobody has touched the boat in 12-16mo, and he is remembering what it 
was like yrs before when it was actively sailed.


At least lesson was not too expensive.

Onward and upward!
Mark

-
  Dr. Mark Bodnar
B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C)
Bedford Chiropractic
www.bedfordchiro.ca
-

There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana

On 28/09/2013 4:09 PM, Brent Driedger wrote:

The photos of the CS don't raise my red flags like the 29 did. She looks like a 
nice boat. Good luck with her.

Brent
27-5
Lake Winnipeg

Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 28, 2013, at 11:16 AM, "j...@svpaws.net"  wrote:

Certainly a lot more boat that what you described of the "bargain" boat.  Good 
luck.  I would be a little cautious of the obvious DIY upgrades but overall a nice 
looking boat.

John


Sent from my iPad


On Sep 28, 2013, at 12:05 PM, "Dr. Mark Bodnar"  wrote:


So the new boat is a bust!

I was thinking I had a chance to get a great deal, a boat in fair condition for 
a good price, just in need of some cosmetic cleaning etc.

Unfortunately no.  Surveyor found the boat was full of mold, cushions wet and 
moldy, stove rusted beyond repair, bilge full of rain water, manual bilge pump 
not functional, anchors rusted to point of needing replacement,   Plus the 
usual minor issues - scrapes and scuffs in the gel coat etc.
With the bilge full of water the surveyor was unable to properly check the keel 
bolts or the mast step.
All told, just does not make sense.  And yes, I know, a few people on this list 
warned me of exactly these issues, but I couldn't help from trying to find that 
great deal where you catch a seller at just the right time.
Thanks for the advice and offers of assistance.  Rich had offered to help sail 
the boat back

Now I'm back looking at the CS 30 I posted.  More expensive, but boat looks in 
much better condition.  Bill, I appreciate the personal recommendation with the 
broker.  Discussed the boat with him, he says it has a few cosmetic issues but 
that the owner died last winter and the adult, non-sailing, children are 
selling the boat.  He feels they will likely be open to an offer given the boat 
will start costing them winter storage fees within a few weeks.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1988/Cs-30-2638685/Hingham/MA/United-States#.Ukb-NYasiM4

If it does go ahead I don't want to take that much time off work to sail the boat 
all the way home, but I have a local skipper who I was organizing to bring back the 
C&C29, and we should be able to organize getting the boat home in mid Oct if I 
go ahead with the CS.  I'm hoping if we time it right that I can drive down to 
Yarmouth and hop on the boat with him to bring it up the coast of NS.

We'll see how it goes.  I'm still willing to stick with my little Mirage 24 if 
I can't find the right deal.

Mark

--

-
Dr. Mark Bodnar
B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C)
Bedford Chiropractic
www.bedfordchiro.ca
-

There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
- George Santayana


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Stus-List Boat Bargains

[Chuck S]

Usually there is a reason a boat bargain is even available. 
Utimately you get what you pay for. The reason is usually lack of owner 
maintenance which sometimes translates to neglect. I bought a boat with mold 
issues. Seems it was shrink wrap covered for two years awaiting sale. Took a 
while to eradicate, but worth it. Otherwise, I got a lot of boat for the money 
and no regrets. She taught me a lot, and I'm definitely a better person, more 
knowledgeble and skilled because of it. 

Learn from this experience. You could have discovered a lot of the surveyor's 
list: wet cushions and water in the bilge, yourself, and saved the surveyor for 
a later visit to focus on wet core, and engine issues. 

Figure on a bargain boat: 
Anchors are cheap and easy to replace. Select your personal favorite, and buy 
one. Wet core is more difficult. 
Electronics will probably need replacing if over 5 years old. 
All hoses will need replacing if original or over 10 years old. 
Don't expect great sails, unless newer than 4 years. 
Upholstery may need replacement in any boat over 10 years? But again, thicker 
cushions than manufacturer's OEM is more comfortable, and will please your 
guests. 

If you don't want that much work, you're gonna have to step up the money offer. 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Atlantic City, NJ 
- Original Message -

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Re: Stus-List AIS Transponder Info

[Colin Kilgour]

Good points Steve

I've often said that it can't be too tough to build stuff like that.
(I hate to think what the unit cost on a $600 iphone is, too)

That said, other than guys like Dennis, Rich and Fred who install the
stuff, you don't see too many guys getting rich off marine
electronics.  ;-)

Look at Raymarine, one of the biggest players in the market who went
bankrupt.  If they can't make it, then it doesn't bode well for the
smaller guys, particularly those who tend to focus on the sailing
market rather than the much larger powerboat market.

Unfortunately, the price is what it is and we need to evaluate choices
based on what's available.  If I've got only $400 to spend - I'm going
to buy AIS before lots of other things.

Cheers
Colin



On 9/28/13, Steve Thomas  wrote:
> Colin,
>I agree with everything you say in your post, but my complaint about
> cost is not about value to the sailor. It is hard to
> put a value on avoiding a collision at sea. If the only way to manufacture
> an AIS receiver was with some sort of unobtanium that
> resulted in an unavoidable cost of thousands of dollars per unit, they would
> still be worth it to those who could pay for them.
>My complaint is that an AIS receiver is a pretty simple device, based on
> pre-existing technology, and the cost of manufacture
> does not in my opinion justify the high prices being charged by some
> vendors. In their simplest form, AIS receivers consist of a 1
> or 2 channel VHF receiver coupled with a modem to decode the sentences. True
> the market is somewhat limited in volume but I still
> think that boaters are getting gouged when they pay some of the prices being
> asked.
>
> Steve Thomas
> C&C27 MKIII
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Colin
> Kilgour
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 9:27 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List AIS Transponder Info
>
>
> Steve,
>
> Looks like a cool project - for those who have time and ability for
> that kind of stuff.
>
> As for 'cost justifying' AIS, it really depends on the sailing you do.
>  If you're mostly sailing away from major shipping areas, an AIS
> receiver can feel more like a gadget than a tool - and therefore hard
> to justify.
>
> If you're sailing offshore or in shipping areas though, it's pretty
> much the most cost effective safety tool you can have on the boat,
> imo. You can get a receiver for about the same price as a fancy PFD
> and you'll get a heluva lot more utility out of your AIS than your
> Spinlock life vest.  (Btw - not saying you shouldn't wear a life vest,
> just that cheaper ones float just as well as expensive ones)
>
> (Disclosure: fwiw, I've done about 10,000 offshore miles with AIS
> reception on board and it's been really helpful on many occasions)
>
> Cheers
> Colin
>
>
> On 9/28/13, Steve Thomas  wrote:
>> And now for something completely different: a kit that will convert a
>> spare
>> VHF radio into an AIS receiver that will work with
>> your laptop and includes plotting software, all for under $100. Not
>> exactly
>> an off the shelf bullet proof solution, but it might
>> be interesting to experiment with if the thought of using a soldering
>> iron
>> to install it doesn't leave you faint. I have not tried
>> it, but for the price I am tempted. Most of the "black box" solutions for
>> receive only are unjustifiably expensive for what they
>> actually contain, imho. So far in this discussion, no one has mentioned
>> the
>> possibility of using a radio with AIS already built in
>> by the manufacturer, which is another possible solution. Standard Horizon
>> makes one, and there may be others.
>>
>> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AIS-receiver-plotting-navigation-package-/261288551125?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd602e2d5
>>
>> Steve Thomas
>> C&C27 MKIII
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>

-- 
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Re: Stus-List New boat - NOT

[Dr. Mark Bodnar]

John,
What obvious DIY upgrades are you seeing?
I studied the photos pretty closely (as again it's not a boat I can pop 
over an see) - few wet spots (galley bulkhead), some worn wood work, bit 
of rust in one speaker (chainplate leak?)

But other wise I thought it looked good.
Mark

-
  Dr. Mark Bodnar
B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C)
Bedford Chiropractic
www.bedfordchiro.ca
-

There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana

On 28/09/2013 1:16 PM, j...@svpaws.net wrote:

Certainly a lot more boat that what you described of the "bargain" boat.  Good 
luck.  I would be a little cautious of the obvious DIY upgrades but overall a nice 
looking boat.

John


Sent from my iPad


On Sep 28, 2013, at 12:05 PM, "Dr. Mark Bodnar"  wrote:


So the new boat is a bust!

I was thinking I had a chance to get a great deal, a boat in fair condition for 
a good price, just in need of some cosmetic cleaning etc.

Unfortunately no.  Surveyor found the boat was full of mold, cushions wet and 
moldy, stove rusted beyond repair, bilge full of rain water, manual bilge pump 
not functional, anchors rusted to point of needing replacement,   Plus the 
usual minor issues - scrapes and scuffs in the gel coat etc.
With the bilge full of water the surveyor was unable to properly check the keel 
bolts or the mast step.
All told, just does not make sense.  And yes, I know, a few people on this list 
warned me of exactly these issues, but I couldn't help from trying to find that 
great deal where you catch a seller at just the right time.
Thanks for the advice and offers of assistance.  Rich had offered to help sail 
the boat back

Now I'm back looking at the CS 30 I posted.  More expensive, but boat looks in 
much better condition.  Bill, I appreciate the personal recommendation with the 
broker.  Discussed the boat with him, he says it has a few cosmetic issues but 
that the owner died last winter and the adult, non-sailing, children are 
selling the boat.  He feels they will likely be open to an offer given the boat 
will start costing them winter storage fees within a few weeks.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1988/Cs-30-2638685/Hingham/MA/United-States#.Ukb-NYasiM4

If it does go ahead I don't want to take that much time off work to sail the boat 
all the way home, but I have a local skipper who I was organizing to bring back the 
C&C29, and we should be able to organize getting the boat home in mid Oct if I 
go ahead with the CS.  I'm hoping if we time it right that I can drive down to 
Yarmouth and hop on the boat with him to bring it up the coast of NS.

We'll see how it goes.  I'm still willing to stick with my little Mirage 24 if 
I can't find the right deal.

Mark

--

-
  Dr. Mark Bodnar
B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C)
Bedford Chiropractic
www.bedfordchiro.ca
-

There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana


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Re: Stus-List AIS Transponder Info

[Graham Collins]

Well, I have to disagree with both of you.  Clearly you do not build 
electronics for a living, which is what I do.  An Apple iPhone has a 
bill of material cost of about $200 USD, based on building MILLIONS of 
the frickin things.   (isuppli teardown 
)  
Someone like Digital Yacht might have a production run of 1000, maybe 
more.  At those quantities they aren't getting the price breaks that 
Apple gets, and the parts manufacturers won't return their calls - all 
parts have to be bought through the distribution channels - which adds 
costs. Even Garmin or Ray are nowhere near that scale.  Their 
manufacturing process is more expensive since they do not have the 
option to engineer every last cent out of it and the volume to automate 
everything possible, and they can't spread the R&D costs across as huge 
a production run.  The quality requirements are higher - if your iPhone 
dies in 3 years you aren't too mad but my B&G wind instrument is 
probably 25 years old and still works fine.  The environment 
requirements are higher.


Do I like the price?  Hell no.  Do I think it is unreasonable? No.

Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C&C 35-III #11

On 2013-09-28 4:56 PM, Colin Kilgour wrote:

Good points Steve

I've often said that it can't be too tough to build stuff like that.
(I hate to think what the unit cost on a $600 iphone is, too)

That said, other than guys like Dennis, Rich and Fred who install the
stuff, you don't see too many guys getting rich off marine
electronics.  ;-)

Look at Raymarine, one of the biggest players in the market who went
bankrupt.  If they can't make it, then it doesn't bode well for the
smaller guys, particularly those who tend to focus on the sailing
market rather than the much larger powerboat market.

Unfortunately, the price is what it is and we need to evaluate choices
based on what's available.  If I've got only $400 to spend - I'm going
to buy AIS before lots of other things.

Cheers
Colin



On 9/28/13, Steve Thomas  wrote:

Colin,
I agree with everything you say in your post, but my complaint about
cost is not about value to the sailor. It is hard to
put a value on avoiding a collision at sea. If the only way to manufacture
an AIS receiver was with some sort of unobtanium that
resulted in an unavoidable cost of thousands of dollars per unit, they would
still be worth it to those who could pay for them.
My complaint is that an AIS receiver is a pretty simple device, based on
pre-existing technology, and the cost of manufacture
does not in my opinion justify the high prices being charged by some
vendors. In their simplest form, AIS receivers consist of a 1
or 2 channel VHF receiver coupled with a modem to decode the sentences. True
the market is somewhat limited in volume but I still
think that boaters are getting gouged when they pay some of the prices being
asked.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Colin
Kilgour
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 9:27 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List AIS Transponder Info


Steve,

Looks like a cool project - for those who have time and ability for
that kind of stuff.

As for 'cost justifying' AIS, it really depends on the sailing you do.
  If you're mostly sailing away from major shipping areas, an AIS
receiver can feel more like a gadget than a tool - and therefore hard
to justify.

If you're sailing offshore or in shipping areas though, it's pretty
much the most cost effective safety tool you can have on the boat,
imo. You can get a receiver for about the same price as a fancy PFD
and you'll get a heluva lot more utility out of your AIS than your
Spinlock life vest.  (Btw - not saying you shouldn't wear a life vest,
just that cheaper ones float just as well as expensive ones)

(Disclosure: fwiw, I've done about 10,000 offshore miles with AIS
reception on board and it's been really helpful on many occasions)

Cheers
Colin


On 9/28/13, Steve Thomas  wrote:

And now for something completely different: a kit that will convert a
spare
VHF radio into an AIS receiver that will work with
your laptop and includes plotting software, all for under $100. Not
exactly
an off the shelf bullet proof solution, but it might
be interesting to experiment with if the thought of using a soldering
iron
to install it doesn't leave you faint. I have not tried
it, but for the price I am tempted. Most of the "black box" solutions for
receive only are unjustifiably expensive for what they
actually contain, imho. So far in this discussion, no one has mentioned
the
possibility of using a radio with AIS already built in
by the manufacturer, which is another possible solution. Standard Horizon
makes one, and there may be others.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AIS-receiver-plotting-navigation-package-/261288551125?pt=LH_Defau

Re: Stus-List AIS Transponder Info

[Dennis C.]

I like my AIS capable VHF.  Linked to my chart plotter.  I can see them but, 
unfortunately, they can't see me.

I suspect that soon (if not already) you will be able to buy a VHF with both 
AIS and GPS.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Re: Stus-List New boat - NOT

[j...@svpaws.net]

Little stuff caught my eye - mismatched sheet stoppers, wiring in the nav 
station, screws in the hull liner forward, forward hatch, etc. Obviously 
nothing major.  The wood is crying for some oil but again that's minor.  As I 
said, it looked like a nice boat.

Good luck

John


Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 28, 2013, at 4:04 PM, "Dr. Mark Bodnar"  wrote:
> 
> John,
> What obvious DIY upgrades are you seeing?
> I studied the photos pretty closely (as again it's not a boat I can pop over 
> an see) - few wet spots (galley bulkhead), some worn wood work, bit of rust 
> in one speaker (chainplate leak?)
> But other wise I thought it looked good.
> Mark
> 
> -
>  Dr. Mark Bodnar
> B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C)
> Bedford Chiropractic
> www.bedfordchiro.ca
> -
> 
> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
>  - George Santayana
> 
>> On 28/09/2013 1:16 PM, j...@svpaws.net wrote:
>> Certainly a lot more boat that what you described of the "bargain" boat.  
>> Good luck.  I would be a little cautious of the obvious DIY upgrades but 
>> overall a nice looking boat.
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Sep 28, 2013, at 12:05 PM, "Dr. Mark Bodnar"  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> So the new boat is a bust!
>>> 
>>> I was thinking I had a chance to get a great deal, a boat in fair condition 
>>> for a good price, just in need of some cosmetic cleaning etc.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately no.  Surveyor found the boat was full of mold, cushions wet 
>>> and moldy, stove rusted beyond repair, bilge full of rain water, manual 
>>> bilge pump not functional, anchors rusted to point of needing replacement,  
>>>  Plus the usual minor issues - scrapes and scuffs in the gel coat etc.
>>> With the bilge full of water the surveyor was unable to properly check the 
>>> keel bolts or the mast step.
>>> All told, just does not make sense.  And yes, I know, a few people on this 
>>> list warned me of exactly these issues, but I couldn't help from trying to 
>>> find that great deal where you catch a seller at just the right time.
>>> Thanks for the advice and offers of assistance.  Rich had offered to help 
>>> sail the boat back
>>> 
>>> Now I'm back looking at the CS 30 I posted.  More expensive, but boat looks 
>>> in much better condition.  Bill, I appreciate the personal recommendation 
>>> with the broker.  Discussed the boat with him, he says it has a few 
>>> cosmetic issues but that the owner died last winter and the adult, 
>>> non-sailing, children are selling the boat.  He feels they will likely be 
>>> open to an offer given the boat will start costing them winter storage fees 
>>> within a few weeks.
>>> http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1988/Cs-30-2638685/Hingham/MA/United-States#.Ukb-NYasiM4
>>> 
>>> If it does go ahead I don't want to take that much time off work to sail 
>>> the boat all the way home, but I have a local skipper who I was organizing 
>>> to bring back the C&C29, and we should be able to organize getting the boat 
>>> home in mid Oct if I go ahead with the CS.  I'm hoping if we time it right 
>>> that I can drive down to Yarmouth and hop on the boat with him to bring it 
>>> up the coast of NS.
>>> 
>>> We'll see how it goes.  I'm still willing to stick with my little Mirage 24 
>>> if I can't find the right deal.
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> -
>>>  Dr. Mark Bodnar
>>> B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C)
>>> Bedford Chiropractic
>>> www.bedfordchiro.ca
>>> -
>>> 
>>> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
>>>  - George Santayana
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
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Re: Stus-List New boat - NOT

[Knowles Rich]

That galley bulkhead looked odd to me too, possibly wet, but I think it's a 
shadow. 

Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax

On Sep 28, 2013, at 17:04, "Dr. Mark Bodnar"  wrote:

John,
What obvious DIY upgrades are you seeing?
I studied the photos pretty closely (as again it's not a boat I can pop over an 
see) - few wet spots (galley bulkhead), some worn wood work, bit of rust in one 
speaker (chainplate leak?)
But other wise I thought it looked good.
Mark

-
 Dr. Mark Bodnar
B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C)
Bedford Chiropractic
www.bedfordchiro.ca
-

There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
 - George Santayana

> On 28/09/2013 1:16 PM, j...@svpaws.net wrote:
> Certainly a lot more boat that what you described of the "bargain" boat.  
> Good luck.  I would be a little cautious of the obvious DIY upgrades but 
> overall a nice looking boat.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Sep 28, 2013, at 12:05 PM, "Dr. Mark Bodnar"  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> So the new boat is a bust!
>> 
>> I was thinking I had a chance to get a great deal, a boat in fair condition 
>> for a good price, just in need of some cosmetic cleaning etc.
>> 
>> Unfortunately no.  Surveyor found the boat was full of mold, cushions wet 
>> and moldy, stove rusted beyond repair, bilge full of rain water, manual 
>> bilge pump not functional, anchors rusted to point of needing replacement,   
>> Plus the usual minor issues - scrapes and scuffs in the gel coat etc.
>> With the bilge full of water the surveyor was unable to properly check the 
>> keel bolts or the mast step.
>> All told, just does not make sense.  And yes, I know, a few people on this 
>> list warned me of exactly these issues, but I couldn't help from trying to 
>> find that great deal where you catch a seller at just the right time.
>> Thanks for the advice and offers of assistance.  Rich had offered to help 
>> sail the boat back
>> 
>> Now I'm back looking at the CS 30 I posted.  More expensive, but boat looks 
>> in much better condition.  Bill, I appreciate the personal recommendation 
>> with the broker.  Discussed the boat with him, he says it has a few cosmetic 
>> issues but that the owner died last winter and the adult, non-sailing, 
>> children are selling the boat.  He feels they will likely be open to an 
>> offer given the boat will start costing them winter storage fees within a 
>> few weeks.
>> http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1988/Cs-30-2638685/Hingham/MA/United-States#.Ukb-NYasiM4
>> 
>> If it does go ahead I don't want to take that much time off work to sail the 
>> boat all the way home, but I have a local skipper who I was organizing to 
>> bring back the C&C29, and we should be able to organize getting the boat 
>> home in mid Oct if I go ahead with the CS.  I'm hoping if we time it right 
>> that I can drive down to Yarmouth and hop on the boat with him to bring it 
>> up the coast of NS.
>> 
>> We'll see how it goes.  I'm still willing to stick with my little Mirage 24 
>> if I can't find the right deal.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> -
>>  Dr. Mark Bodnar
>> B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C)
>> Bedford Chiropractic
>> www.bedfordchiro.ca
>> -
>> 
>> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
>>  - George Santayana
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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Re: Stus-List AIS Transponder Info

[Knowles Rich]

Dennis and Fred must have my share!  Geez, guys. Not fair!

Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax

> On Sep 28, 2013, at 16:56, Colin Kilgour  wrote:
> 
> That said, other than guys like Dennis, Rich and Fred who install the
> stuff, you don't see too many guys getting rich off marine
> electronics.  ;-)

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