Re: Stus-List 2013 Northeast Rendezvous

[djhaug...@juno.com]

Well done Rob!  I'm sorry I couldn't be there...

Safe journey home to all

Danny

T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network

- Reply message -
From: "Robert Gallagher" 
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
Subject: Stus-List 2013 Northeast Rendezvous
Date: Sun, Sep 8, 2013 12:13 am
As I walk the docks with beer in one hand, cigar in the other, all the sailors 
nestled in their berths, i gaze at each transom and say thanks to everyone who 
made this year's event a smashing success.


C&C yachts, Good Old Boat Magazine, Mohegan Sun, Rob Ball, David Risch, those 
who came by boat, plane and ferry, happy sailing to all and to all a good night

Till next year...

Rob___
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Stus-List scoring

[Mike]

Hi Gang

I have a scoring question.  In Our club we have a skipper that has changed 
boats partway through the season.  He has done very well in both boats.  At our 
club we score each series and an overall that goes on the club Trophy.  Do we 
score him separate for both boats or as one boat?  What do other clubs do.

Thanks Mike ___
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Re: Stus-List scoring

[Jeff Nelson]

Depends somewhat...Did he change boats to one of the same design?  If 
so, I could see argument for allowing it to be scored as one boat.
If it is a different make, model and design then scored separately.  
Usually the SI's for your race would spell out equipment change
parameters.  Our's for instance do not allow for changing of sails 
unless there is a catestrophic failure during a series.  No one as yet
has taken a knife to their sails to get around the ruling. Changing a 
boat is a significant equipment change.


--
Cheers,
   Jeff Nelson
   Armdale Yacht Club

On 08/09/2013 8:50 AM, Mike wrote:

Hi Gang
I have a scoring question.  In Our club we have a skipper that has 
changed boats partway through the season.  He has done very well in 
both boats.  At our club we score each series and an overall that goes 
on the club Trophy.  Do we score him separate for both boats or as one 
boat? What do other clubs do.

Thanks Mike


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--
Boat_Sig Cheers,
Jeff Nelson
Muir Caileag
C&C 30
Armdale Y.C.
Halifax
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Re: Stus-List scoring

[Edd Schillay]

Mike,

Always separate. Different hull is a different entry. Even in one design 
racing. 

In PHRF racing, I've never ever seen anyone change hulls and continue their 
series scores. 

There's an element of fairness there too. Boat damage is a risk every entrant 
makes. It would not be fair for a common-make boat skipper to be able to change 
hulls just because his boat's make and model is more popular than others. 

Plus, as we saw at this year's NE C&C Rendezvous with a few C&C 40s, not all 
make/models are the same. 

I've been involved in race management for over 20 years, and was Commodore of 
EBYRA for the past 13. 

All the best,

Edd

---
Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
NCC-1701-B
C&C 37+ | City Island, NY
www.StarshipSailing.com
---
914.332.4400  | Office
914.332.1671  | Fax
914.774.9767  | Mobile
---
Sent via iPhone 5

On Sep 8, 2013, at 7:50 AM, "Mike"  wrote:

 
 
Hi Gang
 
I have a scoring question.  In Our club we have a skipper that has changed 
boats partway through the season.  He has done very well in both boats.  At our 
club we score each series and an overall that goes on the club Trophy.  Do we 
score him separate for both boats or as one boat?  What do other clubs do.
 
Thanks Mike 
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Re: Stus-List scoring

[Edd Schillay]

Jeff,

What argument is that? 

Two entrants: one a Beneteau 36.7, the other a 1970s Mason 33. Is it fair to 
the Mason owner that the owner of the Ben can easily find other 36.7 hulls to 
replace his? 


All the best,

Edd

---
Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
NCC-1701-B
C&C 37+ | City Island, NY
www.StarshipSailing.com
---
914.332.4400  | Office
914.332.1671  | Fax
914.774.9767  | Mobile
---
Sent via iPhone 5

On Sep 8, 2013, at 8:01 AM, Jeff Nelson  wrote:

Depends somewhat...Did he change boats to one of the same design?  If so, I 
could see argument for allowing it to be scored as one boat.
If it is a different make, model and design then scored separately.  Usually 
the SI's for your race would spell out equipment change
parameters.  Our's for instance do not allow for changing of sails unless there 
is a catestrophic failure during a series.  No one as yet
has taken a knife to their sails to get around the ruling.  Changing a boat is 
a significant equipment change.
-- 
Cheers,
   Jeff Nelson
   Armdale Yacht Club
On 08/09/2013 8:50 AM, Mike wrote:
>  
>  
> Hi Gang
>  
> I have a scoring question.  In Our club we have a skipper that has changed 
> boats partway through the season.  He has done very well in both boats.  At 
> our club we score each series and an overall that goes on the club Trophy.  
> Do we score him separate for both boats or as one boat?  What do other clubs 
> do.
>  
> Thanks Mike 
> 
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com


-- 
Cheers,
Jeff Nelson
Muir Caileag
C&C 30
Armdale Y.C.
Halifax
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Re: Stus-List scoring

[BRETT L. ARRON, MD]

Racing under PHRF ratings, it should not make a difference if he changed boats 
every race.  I would think it would be a disadvantage to have to learn the 
intricacies and peccadillos of a new boat.

Sent from my iPad
Brett Arron
Serenity 
C&C 33 Mk-1

brett.ar...@gmail.com
401-338-1961

On Sep 8, 2013, at 7:50, Mike  wrote:

>  
>  
> Hi Gang
>  
> I have a scoring question.  In Our club we have a skipper that has changed 
> boats partway through the season.  He has done very well in both boats.  At 
> our club we score each series and an overall that goes on the club Trophy.  
> Do we score him separate for both boats or as one boat?  What do other clubs 
> do.
>  
> Thanks Mike 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
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Re: Stus-List scoring

[Mike]

I should add both boats have solid PHRF numbers.  So it was not the skipper 
getting a PHRF beater.  He is an active member and supports the club.  

Mike

Mike

From: BRETT L. ARRON, MD 
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 8:15 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List scoring

Racing under PHRF ratings, it should not make a difference if he changed boats 
every race.  I would think it would be a disadvantage to have to learn the 
intricacies and peccadillos of a new boat.

Sent from my iPad 
Brett Arron
Serenity 
C&C 33 Mk-1

brett.ar...@gmail.com
401-338-1961

On Sep 8, 2013, at 7:50, Mike  wrote:




  Hi Gang

  I have a scoring question.  In Our club we have a skipper that has changed 
boats partway through the season.  He has done very well in both boats.  At our 
club we score each series and an overall that goes on the club Trophy.  Do we 
score him separate for both boats or as one boat?  What do other clubs do.

  Thanks Mike 
  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com




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No virus found in this message.
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Re: Stus-List scoring

[Andrew Burton]

The boat enters the series, not the skipper. At least, the boat is still scored 
for the series even if the skipper misses a race and gets one of his guys to 
sail it.
 So if a skipper changes boats, each boat should be scored separately and 
indivdually.
Andy
Peregrine 
C&C 40

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Sep 8, 2013, at 8:36, "Mike"  wrote:

> I should add both boats have solid PHRF numbers.  So it was not the skipper 
> getting a PHRF beater.  He is an active member and supports the club. 
>  
> Mike
>  
> Mike
>  
> From: BRETT L. ARRON, MD
> Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 8:15 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List scoring
>  
> Racing under PHRF ratings, it should not make a difference if he changed 
> boats every race.  I would think it would be a disadvantage to have to learn 
> the intricacies and peccadillos of a new boat.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> Brett Arron
> Serenity
> C&C 33 Mk-1
>  
> brett.ar...@gmail.com
> 401-338-1961
> 
> On Sep 8, 2013, at 7:50, Mike  wrote:
> 
>>  
>>  
>> Hi Gang
>>  
>> I have a scoring question.  In Our club we have a skipper that has changed 
>> boats partway through the season.  He has done very well in both boats.  At 
>> our club we score each series and an overall that goes on the club Trophy.  
>> Do we score him separate for both boats or as one boat?  What do other clubs 
>> do.
>>  
>> Thanks Mike 
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> ___
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> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3222/6646 - Release Date: 09/07/13
> 
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Re: Stus-List scoring

[Edd Schillay]

Brett,

But PHRF is subjective and, to be brutally honest, corrupt. 

Look at the J/105 ratings across the country. They range from 93 in some areas 
to 108 in others. Same boats, all supposedly based on 5-10 wind speed, so why 
the differences? 

Sailmakers on PHRF boards. 

The overall system is bad. Humans (or even Vulcans) need to be taken out of the 
process. 

Take this scenario. Owner has big bucks. He buys a heavy 40 footer that rates 
90 and races in a bay where the winds never go above 6. He's getting killed out 
there, so he buys a 27 footer that also rates 90. 

A 27 foot planing hull 90 rater does not sail like a 19,000 pound displacement 
40 footer with a 90 rating. 

New boat. New scores. 

It's unfortunate that Americap never took off. IRC has promise though. 



All the best,

Edd

---
Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
NCC-1701-B
C&C 37+ | City Island, NY
www.StarshipSailing.com
---
914.332.4400  | Office
914.332.1671  | Fax
914.774.9767  | Mobile
---
Sent via iPhone 5

On Sep 8, 2013, at 8:15 AM, "BRETT L. ARRON, MD"  wrote:

Racing under PHRF ratings, it should not make a difference if he changed boats 
every race.  I would think it would be a disadvantage to have to learn the 
intricacies and peccadillos of a new boat.

Sent from my iPad
Brett Arron
Serenity 
C&C 33 Mk-1

brett.ar...@gmail.com
401-338-1961

On Sep 8, 2013, at 7:50, Mike  wrote:

>  
>  
> Hi Gang
>  
> I have a scoring question.  In Our club we have a skipper that has changed 
> boats partway through the season.  He has done very well in both boats.  At 
> our club we score each series and an overall that goes on the club Trophy.  
> Do we score him separate for both boats or as one boat?  What do other clubs 
> do.
>  
> Thanks Mike 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com

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Re: Stus-List scoring

[Edd Schillay]

Mike,

From a race administration perspective, no entry fee is worth more than 
another's, no matter how active and supportive one member is. 

New people will never get into this sport if others are given preferential 
treatment. 

You know, like PHRF boards give. ...


All the best,

Edd

---
Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
NCC-1701-B
C&C 37+ | City Island, NY
www.StarshipSailing.com
---
914.332.4400  | Office
914.332.1671  | Fax
914.774.9767  | Mobile
---
Sent via iPhone 5

On Sep 8, 2013, at 9:01 AM, Andrew Burton  wrote:

The boat enters the series, not the skipper. At least, the boat is still scored 
for the series even if the skipper misses a race and gets one of his guys to 
sail it.
 So if a skipper changes boats, each boat should be scored separately and 
indivdually.
Andy
Peregrine 
C&C 40

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Sep 8, 2013, at 8:36, "Mike"  wrote:

> I should add both boats have solid PHRF numbers.  So it was not the skipper 
> getting a PHRF beater.  He is an active member and supports the club. 
>  
> Mike
>  
> Mike
>  
> From: BRETT L. ARRON, MD
> Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 8:15 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List scoring
>  
> Racing under PHRF ratings, it should not make a difference if he changed 
> boats every race.  I would think it would be a disadvantage to have to learn 
> the intricacies and peccadillos of a new boat.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> Brett Arron
> Serenity
> C&C 33 Mk-1
>  
> brett.ar...@gmail.com
> 401-338-1961
> 
> On Sep 8, 2013, at 7:50, Mike  wrote:
> 
>>  
>>  
>> Hi Gang
>>  
>> I have a scoring question.  In Our club we have a skipper that has changed 
>> boats partway through the season.  He has done very well in both boats.  At 
>> our club we score each series and an overall that goes on the club Trophy.  
>> Do we score him separate for both boats or as one boat?  What do other clubs 
>> do.
>>  
>> Thanks Mike 
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3222/6646 - Release Date: 09/07/13
> 
> ___
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> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com

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Re: Stus-List scoring

[BRETT L. ARRON, MD]

I see both sides.  If it is within one club, it is the member who pays the 
membership dues and entry fee, not the boat.  If the club has chosen to race 
under PHRF rules then the rating rules are known and apply to all.
Is it fair to wipe out a skippers record because he decides to sell an old boat 
and buy a new one?  Should the new skipper get to keep the points earned on the 
old boat, which he was not on when they were earned by the old skipper?
It could be left to the club to make an exception.   That exception should not 
unreasonably be withheld.

Sent from my iPad
Brett Arron

brett.ar...@gmail.com
401-338-1961

On Sep 8, 2013, at 9:05, Edd Schillay  wrote:

> Mike,
> 
> From a race administration perspective, no entry fee is worth more than 
> another's, no matter how active and supportive one member is. 
> 
> New people will never get into this sport if others are given preferential 
> treatment. 
> 
> You know, like PHRF boards give. ...
> 
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Edd
> 
> ---
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> NCC-1701-B
> C&C 37+ | City Island, NY
> www.StarshipSailing.com
> ---
> 914.332.4400  | Office
> 914.332.1671  | Fax
> 914.774.9767  | Mobile
> ---
> Sent via iPhone 5
> 
> On Sep 8, 2013, at 9:01 AM, Andrew Burton  wrote:
> 
> The boat enters the series, not the skipper. At least, the boat is still 
> scored for the series even if the skipper misses a race and gets one of his 
> guys to sail it.
>  So if a skipper changes boats, each boat should be scored separately and 
> indivdually.
> Andy
> Peregrine 
> C&C 40
> 
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett
> Newport, RI 
> USA02840
> 
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> +401 965-5260
> 
> On Sep 8, 2013, at 8:36, "Mike"  wrote:
> 
>> I should add both boats have solid PHRF numbers.  So it was not the skipper 
>> getting a PHRF beater.  He is an active member and supports the club. 
>>  
>> Mike
>>  
>> Mike
>>  
>> From: BRETT L. ARRON, MD
>> Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 8:15 AM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List scoring
>>  
>> Racing under PHRF ratings, it should not make a difference if he changed 
>> boats every race.  I would think it would be a disadvantage to have to learn 
>> the intricacies and peccadillos of a new boat.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> Brett Arron
>> Serenity
>> C&C 33 Mk-1
>>  
>> brett.ar...@gmail.com
>> 401-338-1961
>> 
>> On Sep 8, 2013, at 7:50, Mike  wrote:
>> 
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Hi Gang
>>>  
>>> I have a scoring question.  In Our club we have a skipper that has changed 
>>> boats partway through the season.  He has done very well in both boats.  At 
>>> our club we score each series and an overall that goes on the club Trophy.  
>>> Do we score him separate for both boats or as one boat?  What do other 
>>> clubs do.
>>>  
>>> Thanks Mike 
>>> ___
>>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3222/6646 - Release Date: 09/07/13
>> 
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
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Re: Stus-List scoring

[wwadjo...@aol.com]

Different boat, different score. No brainer.  
Bill Walker
C n C 36
Pentwater, Mi.


Sent from my HTC

- Reply message -
From: "Mike" 
To: 
Subject: Stus-List scoring
Date: Sun, Sep 8, 2013 7:50 AM

Hi Gang

I have a scoring question.  In Our club we have a skipper that has changed 
boats partway through the season.  He has done very well in both boats.  At our 
club we score each series and an overall that goes on the club Trophy.  Do we 
score him separate for both boats or as one boat?  What do other clubs do.

Thanks Mike___
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Re: Stus-List 2013 Northeast Rendezvous

[John and Maryann Read]

Well done to Rob and crew.  Wish we could have been with you but raised a
glass last night  J

 

 

John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C&C 34

Noank, CT

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Gallagher
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 12:14 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List 2013 Northeast Rendezvous

 

As I walk the docks with beer in one hand, cigar in the other, all the
sailors nestled in their berths, i gaze at each transom and say thanks to
everyone who made this year's event a smashing success.

 

C&C yachts, Good Old Boat Magazine, Mohegan Sun, Rob Ball, David Risch,
those who came by boat, plane and ferry, happy sailing to all and to all a
good night

 

Till next year...

 

Rob

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Re: Stus-List scoring

[Knowles Rich]

Check out http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performance_Handicap_Racing_Fleet

If the premise is correct, and giving the process of assigning ratings a wide 
berth, a crew should be able to swap boats without affecting their standings in 
a series.

Now that I've said that, I fully understand my folly:)

Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax

On 2013-09-08, at 10:01, Edd Schillay  wrote:

Brett,

But PHRF is subjective and, to be brutally honest, corrupt. 

Look at the J/105 ratings across the country. They range from 93 in some areas 
to 108 in others. Same boats, all supposedly based on 5-10 wind speed, so why 
the differences? 

Sailmakers on PHRF boards. 

The overall system is bad. Humans (or even Vulcans) need to be taken out of the 
process. 

Take this scenario. Owner has big bucks. He buys a heavy 40 footer that rates 
90 and races in a bay where the winds never go above 6. He's getting killed out 
there, so he buys a 27 footer that also rates 90. 

A 27 foot planing hull 90 rater does not sail like a 19,000 pound displacement 
40 footer with a 90 rating. 

New boat. New scores. 

It's unfortunate that Americap never took off. IRC has promise though. 



All the best,

Edd

---
Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
NCC-1701-B
C&C 37+ | City Island, NY
www.StarshipSailing.com
---
914.332.4400  | Office
914.332.1671  | Fax
914.774.9767  | Mobile
---
Sent via iPhone 5

On Sep 8, 2013, at 8:15 AM, "BRETT L. ARRON, MD"  wrote:

Racing under PHRF ratings, it should not make a difference if he changed boats 
every race.  I would think it would be a disadvantage to have to learn the 
intricacies and peccadillos of a new boat.

Sent from my iPad
Brett Arron
Serenity 
C&C 33 Mk-1

brett.ar...@gmail.com
401-338-1961

On Sep 8, 2013, at 7:50, Mike  wrote:

>  
>  
> Hi Gang
>  
> I have a scoring question.  In Our club we have a skipper that has changed 
> boats partway through the season.  He has done very well in both boats.  At 
> our club we score each series and an overall that goes on the club Trophy.  
> Do we score him separate for both boats or as one boat?  What do other clubs 
> do.
>  
> Thanks Mike 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com

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Re: Stus-List Airmar speed transducers

[Ed Levert]

As close as I can measure, it is 1 1/2 in diameter.


From: CnC-List on behalf of Terry
Sent: Saturday, September 7, 2013 6:19 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Airmar speed transducers

Ed, do you know what the diameter of the transducer is?  1-5/8 or 1- 1/4?

Thanks,  from Terry on behalf of Fred...

From: Ed Levert
Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 3:53 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Airmar speed transducers

Fred:

Spent the PM changing fuel filters. Hope the transducer works. I will put it in 
the mail on Monday.

The transducer came from a C&C 30 Mk 1 I bought in 2006. A prior owner had 
installed the speed and depth transducers with a piece of  plywood on the 
outside of the hull. On the next haulout, the plywood was too spongy. 5200 had 
been used to seal the installation and the boatyard broke the through hull 
trying to remove it. So I ended up owning a new transducer and new through 
hull. The one I am sending was working when last in use. It has the 5 pin plug. 
If it works, I am happy to get it off my shelf as I have too many boat parts 
"in stock." I hope it will work for you.

Ed





From: CnC-List on behalf of Fred Hazzard
Sent: Saturday, September 7, 2013 1:36 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Airmar speed transducers

Ed:   Great.  Thank you very much.  My address is:

Fred Hazzard
3232 SE Raymond St.
Portland, Or 97202

Fred

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ed Levert
Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 7:43 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Airmar speed transducers

Fred:

I have an Airmar transducer but as near as my eyes can see, it looks to be 1 
1/2" in diameter. If you can use it or even want to try, its yours. Send me 
your mailing address.

Ed Levert
Briar Patch C&C 34
New Orleans
elev...@grayinsco.com

From: CnC-List on behalf of Fred Hazzard
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 11:12 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Airmar speed transducers

I am in need of an Airmar speed transducer.  It needs to be the older 800 
series that reads boat speed and temp.  Further it needs to be an older unit 
that is 1 5/8" in diameter.

Anybody have an older working unit in your surplus boat gear?

Fred Hazzard
S/V Fury
Portland, OR


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Re: Stus-List scoring

[Rick Taillieu]

Mike, do your club trophies have “trophy deeds”?

If so, then it should be spelled out in them if the trophies are awarded to the 
boat or the skipper.

 

 

Rick Taillieu

Nemesis

'75 C&C 25  #371

Shearwater Yacht Club

Halifax, NS.

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Sent: September-08-13 8:51 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List scoring

 

 

 

Hi Gang

 

I have a scoring question.  In Our club we have a skipper that has changed 
boats partway through the season.  He has done very well in both boats.  At our 
club we score each series and an overall that goes on the club Trophy.  Do we 
score him separate for both boats or as one boat?  What do other clubs do.

 

Thanks Mike 

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Re: Stus-List scoring

[Jeff Nelson]

One design boats are all the same, by design, and allowed sail 
inventory, so I could see that would be a more acceptable swap than 
going from
a Mason 33 to say a Viper for instance, and in some races/ one design 
fleets (Martin 16's for instance) swapping crews to different boats

is required within the series.

Another possibility for swapping Benn hulls is if someone made an 
attempted crossing and missed by 10 feet or so, totalling the boat.
So, buy a new Benn hull and continue racings...does that necissarily 
mean a new entry should be started in the series.


In the end, what equipment that is allowed to be swapped out in a series 
should be spelled out in the SI's.


I'd still lean towards 2 entries, unless something catestrophic happened 
and the boat is being replaced with a same design hull.


--
Cheers,
   Jeff Nelson
   Armdale Y.C.

On 08/09/2013 9:15 AM, Edd Schillay wrote:

Jeff,

What argument is that?

Two entrants: one a Beneteau 36.7, the other a 1970s Mason 33. Is it 
fair to the Mason owner that the owner of the Ben can easily find 
other 36.7 hulls to replace his?



All the best,

Edd

---
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Starship Enterprise
NCC-1701-B
C&C 37+ | City Island, NY
www.StarshipSailing.com 
---
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914.332.1671  | Fax
914.774.9767  | Mobile
---
Sent via iPhone 5

On Sep 8, 2013, at 8:01 AM, Jeff Nelson > wrote:


Depends somewhat...Did he change boats to one of the same design?  If 
so, I could see argument for allowing it to be scored as one boat.
If it is a different make, model and design then scored separately.  
Usually the SI's for your race would spell out equipment change
parameters.  Our's for instance do not allow for changing of sails 
unless there is a catestrophic failure during a series. No one as yet
has taken a knife to their sails to get around the ruling. Changing a 
boat is a significant equipment change.

--
Cheers,
Jeff Nelson
Armdale Yacht Club
On 08/09/2013 8:50 AM, Mike wrote:

Hi Gang
I have a scoring question.  In Our club we have a skipper that has 
changed boats partway through the season.  He has done very well in 
both boats.  At our club we score each series and an overall that 
goes on the club Trophy.  Do we score him separate for both boats or 
as one boat?  What do other clubs do.

Thanks Mike


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Boat_Sig Cheers,
Jeff Nelson
Muir Caileag
C&C 30
Armdale Y.C.
Halifax
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Muir Caileag
C&C 30
Armdale Y.C.
Halifax
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Re: Stus-List scoring

[Gary Nylander]

We score the boat, not the skipper. We have folks who use multiple boats. I 
would love to be able to jump boats... let's see - a Viper for those light or 
very heavy (planing) days, a Cal 40 for downwind, a Bermuda 40 for the days 
when the waves are up..

Gary
  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 7:50 AM
  Subject: Stus-List scoring




  Hi Gang

  I have a scoring question.  In Our club we have a skipper that has changed 
boats partway through the season.  He has done very well in both boats.  At our 
club we score each series and an overall that goes on the club Trophy.  Do we 
score him separate for both boats or as one boat?  What do other clubs do.

  Thanks Mike 


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Re: Stus-List scoring

[Dennis C.]

No question about it, always score the boat, not the skipper, unless it is a 
one design regatta where skippers rotate through different boats.

Go back to the Notice of Race/Regatta.  It probably reads "boats" not 
"skippers" under the entry, eligibility, class and division sections.  If not, 
next time, make sure it does.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Re: Stus-List scoring

[Mike]

Just one more note.  He raced the spring series on one boat.  the summer on 
another. So he did not change for wind , weather conditions.  It is a new club 
so we are trying to sent a president. This is just for overall.

Mike

From: Dennis C. 
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 11:06 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List scoring

No question about it, always score the boat, not the skipper, unless it is a 
one design regatta where skippers rotate through different boats.

Go back to the Notice of Race/Regatta.  It probably reads "boats" not 
"skippers" under the entry, eligibility, class and division sections.  If not, 
next time, make sure it does.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA




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Re: Stus-List scoring

[Gary Nylander]

Set up a special "skippers" trophy, for the best overall performance. Still 
score the boat for overall. If you set up a precedent of scoring the skipper, 
you could lead to boat shifting.

For example, we have a trophy for the boat which finishes first (on the water) 
the most time regardless of handicap just to reward the fast boats, but it is 
not for the overall multi-series winner. And another for the boat which 
finishes first on handicap the most times, regardless of her overall scores 
(may miss races, for example). Things like this are useful when you have a 
small club with a wide range of handicaps - ours goes from a C&C 115 (78) to a 
Triton (252). The Triton can finish tomorrow and still beat you.

Gary
  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike 
  To: Dennis C. ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 11:34 AM
  Subject: Re: Stus-List scoring


  Just one more note.  He raced the spring series on one boat.  the summer on 
another. So he did not change for wind , weather conditions.  It is a new club 
so we are trying to sent a president. This is just for overall.

  Mike

  From: Dennis C. 
  Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 11:06 AM
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Subject: Re: Stus-List scoring

  No question about it, always score the boat, not the skipper, unless it is a 
one design regatta where skippers rotate through different boats.

  Go back to the Notice of Race/Regatta.  It probably reads "boats" not 
"skippers" under the entry, eligibility, class and division sections.  If not, 
next time, make sure it does.

  Dennis C.
  Touche' 35-1 #83
  Mandeville, LA



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Re: Stus-List scoring

[Dennis C.]

Agree. Our club has "Sailor of the Year" trophy. Not necessarily for best 
overall performance but recognizes achievement be it performance, 
participation, crew, sportsmanship, etc.  Very versatile tool for recognition. 

Dennis C.
Touché 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 8, 2013, at 11:00 AM, "Gary Nylander"  wrote:

> Set up a special "skippers" trophy, for the best overall performance. Still 
> score the boat for overall. If you set up a precedent of scoring the skipper, 
> you could lead to boat shifting.
>  
> For example, we have a trophy for the boat which finishes first (on the 
> water) the most time regardless of handicap just to reward the fast boats, 
> but it is not for the overall multi-series winner. And another for the boat 
> which finishes first on handicap the most times, regardless of her overall 
> scores (may miss races, for example). Things like this are useful when you 
> have a small club with a wide range of handicaps - ours goes from a C&C 115 
> (78) to a Triton (252). The Triton can finish tomorrow and still beat you.
>  
> Gary
> - Original Message -
> From: Mike
> To: Dennis C. ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 11:34 AM
> Subject: Re: Stus-List scoring
> 
> Just one more note.  He raced the spring series on one boat.  the summer on 
> another. So he did not change for wind , weather conditions.  It is a new 
> club so we are trying to sent a president. This is just for overall.
>  
> Mike
>  
> From: Dennis C.
> Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 11:06 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List scoring
>  
> No question about it, always score the boat, not the skipper, unless it is a 
> one design regatta where skippers rotate through different boats.
> 
> Go back to the Notice of Race/Regatta.  It probably reads "boats" not 
> "skippers" under the entry, eligibility, class and division sections.  If 
> not, next time, make sure it does.
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
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Re: Stus-List 2013 Northeast Rendezvous

[Edd Schillay]

Thanks again to Rob for putting together a great event. Wish we could have come 
by starship, but are already looking forward to next year. 

We just got back home after my wife decided to stop at, not one, but two, 
outlet malls. 

The odds of an Enterprise-C in the next decade are now slim at best. 

Great seeing everyone. 


All the best,

Edd

---
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Starship Enterprise
NCC-1701-B
C&C 37+ | City Island, NY
www.StarshipSailing.com
---
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914.332.1671  | Fax
914.774.9767  | Mobile
---
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On Sep 8, 2013, at 12:13 AM, Robert Gallagher  wrote:

As I walk the docks with beer in one hand, cigar in the other, all the sailors 
nestled in their berths, i gaze at each transom and say thanks to everyone who 
made this year's event a smashing success.

C&C yachts, Good Old Boat Magazine, Mohegan Sun, Rob Ball, David Risch, those 
who came by boat, plane and ferry, happy sailing to all and to all a good night

Till next year...

Rob
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Re: Stus-List replacing steaming old light

[rick bushie]

Paul,

The mounting pad on my 30-1 is welded on the front of the mast.

Rick
Anchovy
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Re: Stus-List scoring

[Mike]

Thanks for your input.. I do like the sailor of the year.  
Mike

From: Dennis C. 
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 2:12 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List scoring

Agree. Our club has "Sailor of the Year" trophy. Not necessarily for best 
overall performance but recognizes achievement be it performance, 
participation, crew, sportsmanship, etc.  Very versatile tool for recognition. 

Dennis C.
Touché 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 8, 2013, at 11:00 AM, "Gary Nylander"  wrote:


  Set up a special "skippers" trophy, for the best overall performance. Still 
score the boat for overall. If you set up a precedent of scoring the skipper, 
you could lead to boat shifting.

  For example, we have a trophy for the boat which finishes first (on the 
water) the most time regardless of handicap just to reward the fast boats, but 
it is not for the overall multi-series winner. And another for the boat which 
finishes first on handicap the most times, regardless of her overall scores 
(may miss races, for example). Things like this are useful when you have a 
small club with a wide range of handicaps - ours goes from a C&C 115 (78) to a 
Triton (252). The Triton can finish tomorrow and still beat you.

  Gary
- Original Message - 
From: Mike 
To: Dennis C. ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List scoring

Just one more note.  He raced the spring series on one boat.  the summer on 
another. So he did not change for wind , weather conditions.  It is a new club 
so we are trying to sent a president. This is just for overall.

Mike

From: Dennis C. 
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 11:06 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List scoring

No question about it, always score the boat, not the skipper, unless it is 
a one design regatta where skippers rotate through different boats.

Go back to the Notice of Race/Regatta.  It probably reads "boats" not 
"skippers" under the entry, eligibility, class and division sections.  If not, 
next time, make sure it does.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA



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Re: Stus-List scoring

[Colin Kilgour]

Like others, I'm in the "score the boat" camp.

If a guy changes boats mid-season, he has to accept the possibility
that his race results may suffer.

You could still have individual awards he's be eligible for: most
improved, best dressed, skipper of the year, etc.
Cheers
Colin


On 9/8/13, Mike  wrote:
> Thanks for your input.. I do like the sailor of the year.
> Mike
>
> From: Dennis C.
> Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 2:12 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List scoring
>
> Agree. Our club has "Sailor of the Year" trophy. Not necessarily for best
> overall performance but recognizes achievement be it performance,
> participation, crew, sportsmanship, etc.  Very versatile tool for
> recognition.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touché 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 8, 2013, at 11:00 AM, "Gary Nylander" 
> wrote:
>
>
>   Set up a special "skippers" trophy, for the best overall performance.
> Still score the boat for overall. If you set up a precedent of scoring the
> skipper, you could lead to boat shifting.
>
>   For example, we have a trophy for the boat which finishes first (on the
> water) the most time regardless of handicap just to reward the fast boats,
> but it is not for the overall multi-series winner. And another for the boat
> which finishes first on handicap the most times, regardless of her overall
> scores (may miss races, for example). Things like this are useful when you
> have a small club with a wide range of handicaps - ours goes from a C&C 115
> (78) to a Triton (252). The Triton can finish tomorrow and still beat you.
>
>   Gary
> - Original Message -
> From: Mike
> To: Dennis C. ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 11:34 AM
> Subject: Re: Stus-List scoring
>
> Just one more note.  He raced the spring series on one boat.  the summer
> on another. So he did not change for wind , weather conditions.  It is a new
> club so we are trying to sent a president. This is just for overall.
>
> Mike
>
> From: Dennis C.
> Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 11:06 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List scoring
>
> No question about it, always score the boat, not the skipper, unless it
> is a one design regatta where skippers rotate through different boats.
>
> Go back to the Notice of Race/Regatta.  It probably reads "boats" not
> "skippers" under the entry, eligibility, class and division sections.  If
> not, next time, make sure it does.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
>
> 
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> 
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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>
> 
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Stus-List Americas Cup

[Dennis C.]

Things ain't looking good for Oracle.  Need to find a way to get back in court 
where the lawyers can decide it.


Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Re: Stus-List scoring

[wwadjo...@aol.com]

Different boat, different score. No brainer.  
Bill Walker
C n C 36
Pentwater, Mi.


Sent from my HTC

- Reply message -
From: "Mike" 
To: 
Subject: Stus-List scoring
Date: Sun, Sep 8, 2013 7:50 AM

Hi Gang

I have a scoring question.  In Our club we have a skipper that has changed 
boats partway through the season.  He has done very well in both boats.  At our 
club we score each series and an overall that goes on the club Trophy.  Do we 
score him separate for both boats or as one boat?  What do other clubs do.

Thanks Mike___
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