Re: Stus-List ; Chesapeake Rendezvous?

[Richard N. Bush]

I thought there was some planning in progress for a Chesapeake Rendezvous for 
this fall, I cannot find any mention of it on the photo album site; it it still 
a go? If so, are there any dates or other details available? Thanks


Richard
1987 33-II Ohio River, Mile 584;

Richard N. Bush Law Offices 
235 South Fifth Street, Fourth Floor 
Louisville, Kentucky 40202 
502-584-7255



-Original Message-
From: Chuck S 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Sat, May 18, 2013 8:07 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Season Has Begun!



Edd,
The new boot stripe look great!
We're not launched yet.  Soon.


Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ


From: "Edd Schillay" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 8:39:30 AM
Subject: Stus-List Season Has Begun!


Listers,


I am proud to announce that the Starship Enterprise launched yesterday 
afternoon with the tide!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5s15hzgwx3mh6v1/2013-05-17%2015.34.23.jpg

We will continue the voyages we have begun, exploring strange new worlds and 
new civilizations, boldly going where no man has gone before. 


(And yes, we saw the new film the night before -- great movie!)




All the best,


Edd


---
Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
NCC-1701-B
C&C 37+ | City Island, NY
---
914.332.4400  | Office
914.332.1671  | Fax
914.774.9767  | Mobile
---
Sent via iPhone 5

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Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

[Bill Coleman]

Well Rick, I respect your opinion and believe this to be true.  However, I'm
guessing you are like most of us on this list, & also older than dirt. And
from what I can garner, like Joe says, over time  WD-40 has had its
propellant changed from propane to carbon dioxide. You can spray it into a
flame and it will put the flame out.
I don't think it works for engine starting anymmore. However, I could be
wrong.  I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

Bill Coleman
C&C 39 


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Brass
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:27 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

WD-40 was the diesel starting fluid of choice among the diesel mechanics I
knew. It is more combustible than diesel and much less explosive than ether.
Apparently it helps the first cold squirts of diesel to ignite and burn more
fully, which heats up the cylinder walls and promotes ignition. Most would
not use ether because of the potential for the ether to ignite too soon and
cause piston, pin, or connecting rod failures.

No diesel engine will start with fuel, pump, etc turned off. Cough maybe,
but not start.

Diesel starting was about the only thing my mechanic friends used wd-40 for,
actually. The penetrating oil of choice was PB-Blaster.


Rick Brass
Washington, NC



-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Coleman
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 5:54 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

I have heard this remedy many times as well, and I always kept a can of
WD-40 on the boat for an emergency.
Then one time I actually tried it , several ways with fuel off, pump off,
etc, couldn't even get a dry fart out of my 107 Perkins. That was it, the
can came off the boat and up the hill. 
I don't know anyone who has actually gotten this "Miracle Juice" to work for
engine starting, I would be curious to hear if anyone else has? I believe it
is mostly Stoddard Solvent - 

Bill Coleman
C&C 39 




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Stus-List Singlehanded Troubleshooting

[Bob Moriarty]

This may be obvious to some but did not occur to me until I woke up this
morning.

Earlier in the week I was unable to perform the ultimate ignition test,
that of observing a spark at the tip of the plug while the starter was
turning.There was nobody at the dock to press the starter button and I
didn't want to try wiring some sort of bypass. All of the other ignition
troubleshooting could be done singlehanded.

I should've used my cellphone to video the plug tip while I was in the
cockpit pushing the starter button.  D'uh

Bob M
Ox 33-1
Jax, FL
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Stus-List Diesels and WD-40

[Chuck S]

Hi Bill, 


Wikipedia confirms your comment. 


"WD-40 has had its propellant changed from propane to carbon dioxide." 





Many listers have been emailing, suggesting WD-40 be used to start diesels. I 
remember someone years ago suggested using WD-40 to stop a runaway Diesel. I 
heaven't tried either method but think there may be truth in both points of 
view. 




Maybe a short (1/2 second) burst can improve combustion for starting? 

while a long fogging spray displaces enough oxygen to end combustion? 







Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Atlantic City, NJ 
- Original Message -






Wiki: 


". . . A propellant (originally a low-molecular weight hydrocarbon, now carbon 
dioxide) provides gas pressure in the can to force the liquid through the spray 
nozzle, then evaporates away. 
Formulation 


WD-40's formula is a trade secret . The product is not patented to avoid 
completely disclosing its ingredients. [ 3 ] [ 6 ] WD-40's main ingredients, 
according to U.S. Material Safety Data Sheet information, are: 

• 51% Stoddard solvent 
• 25% liquefied petroleum gas (presumably as a propellant; carbon dioxide 
is now used instead to reduce WD-40's considerable flammability) 
• 15+% mineral oil (light lubricating oil) 
• 10-% inert ingredients" 

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Stus-List WD-40 substitutes

[Chuck S]

WD-40 stands for Water Displacement formula 40 and first sold in 1958. 

PB-Blaster 
A penetrating oil used to free stuck parts 

T-9 
is better for lubricating hardware, lifeline turnbuckles, metal to metal 
surfaces, leaves a waxing film. 

MacLube SailKote 
is best on mainsail slides, mainsail luff tracks, furler sail tracks 

Lanacote 
waxy butter used on SS screws going into aluminum mast stops corrosion 

Tef-Gel 
used similarly as Lanacote 



Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Atlantic City, NJ 
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Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

[Bill Bina]

Facts:

http://www.wd40company.com/files/pdf/msds-wd482671453.pdf

WD-40, regardless of propellent is still very flammable, and that 
remains the top of the warning list on the aerosol, as well as the bulk 
cans. This MSDS is for the bulk product in a non-aersol container.  A 
few years ago they changed the propellent to CO2 due to environmental 
concerns, not flammability. Like diesel fuel, as well as gasoline, it 
only burns when vaporized. When you drop a match into a bucket of 
gasoline, the only reason it lights is because of a layer of vapor on 
the surface. Gasoline has that vapor on the surface down to lower 
ambient temps than Diesel or kerosene. Once that vapor layer is lit, the 
heat from that vapor burning heats more of the liquid, turning it into 
vapor which then also combusts.  Same thing as a candle. The wax itself 
wont burn even of you hold a match against it. It needs a wick, to draw 
up molten wax and turn it into a vapor mixed with air before it will 
support combustion. If you spray WD-40 into a flame, it will go poof 
pretty dramatically, because it is atomized as it comes out.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOfDwOSDLYM

Note that in the second part of this guys demo, he has dispensed so 
WD-40 onto a concrete slab. That's why he fails to ignite it. The 
concrete absorbs the WD-40 and acts as a giant heat sink, preventing the 
formation of combustible vapor. Kero and diesel would also be difficult 
to ignite like that.


Bill Bina


On 5/19/2013 10:21 AM, Bill Coleman wrote:

Well Rick, I respect your opinion and believe this to be true.  However, I'm
guessing you are like most of us on this list, & also older than dirt. And
from what I can garner, like Joe says, over time  WD-40 has had its
propellant changed from propane to carbon dioxide. You can spray it into a
flame and it will put the flame out.
I don't think it works for engine starting anymmore. However, I could be
wrong.  I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

Bill Coleman
C&C 39





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Re: Stus-List Diesels and WD-40

[Brent Driedger]

Just have an evening of Coronas and Mexican cuisine then squeeze your butt 
against the air intake as your mate hits the start button. Warning, may cause a 
run away engine and crew. 

Brent
Still frozen lake Winnipeg  

Sent from my iPhone

On 2013-05-19, at 11:03 AM, Chuck S  wrote:

> Hi Bill,
> Wikipedia confirms your comment.  
> 
> "WD-40 has had its propellant changed from propane to carbon dioxide."   
> 
> 
> 
> Many listers have been emailing, suggesting WD-40 be used to start diesels.  
> I remember someone years ago suggested using WD-40 to stop a runaway Diesel.  
>  I heaven't tried either method but think there may be truth in both points 
> of view.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe a short (1/2 second) burst can improve combustion for starting?
> 
> while a long fogging spray displaces enough oxygen to end combustion?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chuck
> Resolute
> 1990 C&C 34R
> Atlantic City, NJ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiki:
> 
> ". . . A propellant (originally a low-molecular weight hydrocarbon, now 
> carbon dioxide) provides gas pressure in the can to force the liquid through 
> the spray nozzle, then evaporates away.
> 
> 
> Formulation
> 
> WD-40's formula is a trade secret. The product is not patented to avoid 
> completely disclosing its ingredients.[3][6] WD-40's main ingredients, 
> according to U.S. Material Safety Data Sheet information, are:
> 
> 51% Stoddard solvent
> 25% liquefied petroleum gas (presumably as a propellant; carbon dioxide is 
> now used instead to reduce WD-40's considerable flammability)
> 15+% mineral oil (light lubricating oil)
> 10-% inert ingredients"
> 
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Re: Stus-List Singlehanded Troubleshooting

[Dennis C.]

Change your paradigm. Pull all the plugs, loosen the distributor, turn the 
distributor until a plug sparks. 

If it doesn't spark, pull the cap and rotor and rotate the distributor until 
the contact opens.  Mark that spot. Now you know where the spark should occur. 
Put the cap and rotor back and try to spark the plug again. 

To time an AT4, set the #1 cylinder to near TDC, top dead center, move the 
flywheel to to advance mark, rotate the distributor until the contact separates 
and sparks.  This is called a static tune. It will get you very close if you 
don't have a timing light. 

I've forgotten the recommended degrees of advance for an AT4. 

Dennis C.
Touché 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA



Sent from my iPhone

On May 19, 2013, at 9:54 AM, Bob Moriarty  wrote:

> This may be obvious to some but did not occur to me until I woke up this 
> morning.
> 
> Earlier in the week I was unable to perform the ultimate ignition test, that 
> of observing a spark at the tip of the plug while the starter was 
> turning.There was nobody at the dock to press the starter button and I didn't 
> want to try wiring some sort of bypass. All of the other ignition 
> troubleshooting could be done singlehanded.
> 
> I should've used my cellphone to video the plug tip while I was in the 
> cockpit pushing the starter button.  D'uh
> 
> Bob M
> Ox 33-1
> Jax, FL
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Stus-List Hull speed

[David Knecht]

I had my "new" C&C 34+ out for a first sail this week on a blustery day.  I am not sure what it was blowing (my wind instrument is awaiting delivery of a pod) but I would guess in the 15 knot area.  We had up main and 100% genoa and were doing 7.5 knots steady peaking near 8 knots on a close reach.  This is alot faster than my 34 would do under these conditions (note smile on face of skipper), so I put the hull through a hull speed calculator based on the 29.75 foot LWL listed in the specs.  It was calculated at 7 knots.  The GPS and speedo agreed that I was going faster than this, so now I am curious as to what hull speed actually would be expected.  Thanks- Dave
David KnechtAries1990 C&C 34+New London, CT


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Re: Stus-List Starting a Universal

[David Knecht]

I have some more data on my engine issues.  I tried to start it yesterday at the slip from battery alone and could not get it to start although it turned over just fine. I plugged into shore power and got it to start after several tries and at that point I realized that it was in gear (the transmission lever is sticky so it is hard to tell neutral from either gear). However, I was never able to get it to start with glow plug held in while starting.  There was no response when I tried this whether on shore power or battery.  It started up fine from battery several times in the course of the afternoon.  However, after one of those starts, I noticed the GPS was restarting.  Apparently the draw from the starter had caused it to shut off.  I plan to measure the battery voltage next time I am down there as the boat will now have been sitting off shore power for a few days, so I should be able to get an accurate reading.  I plan to eventually take off the engine panel and try to clean the starter and glow plug contacts.  Anything else I should be looking at?  Thanks- Dave
David KnechtAries1990 C&C 34+New London, CT

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Re: Stus-List Hull speed

[Dennis C.]

Your theoretical hull speed should be 7.3 knots. Not unusual to exceed it in 
the right conditions, particularly if you can surf. 

Formula is 1.34 x square root of WL in feet. Theoretical hull speed asses a 
displacement (mon-planing) hull will create a trough with a crest at the bow 
and at the stern. The assumption is the boat will not escape this trough. This 
the theoretical speed is the speed of a wave with a crest to crest wavelength 
equal to the boat's waterline. 

Some of the older designs have a raised stern counter. Thus the requirement to 
heel the boat to get the counter in the water to stretch the waterline and thus 
the speed. 

Dennis C.
Touché 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA

Sent from my iPhone

On May 19, 2013, at 2:47 PM, David Knecht  wrote:

> I had my "new" C&C 34+ out for a first sail this week on a blustery day.  I 
> am not sure what it was blowing (my wind instrument is awaiting delivery of a 
> pod) but I would guess in the 15 knot area.  We had up main and 100% genoa 
> and were doing 7.5 knots steady peaking near 8 knots on a close reach.  This 
> is alot faster than my 34 would do under these conditions (note smile on face 
> of skipper), so I put the hull through a hull speed calculator based on the 
> 29.75 foot LWL listed in the specs.  It was calculated at 7 knots.  The GPS 
> and speedo agreed that I was going faster than this, so now I am curious as 
> to what hull speed actually would be expected.  Thanks- Dave
> 
> David Knecht
> Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

[schiller]

It may have changed over the years but it still is the only way to get a 
balky chainsaw to start.  I have also used it on 4 stroke small engines 
was well.


Neil Schiller
1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
(C&C 35, Mark I)
"Corsair"
Ready to splash Friday 24 May

On 5/19/2013 10:21 AM, Bill Coleman wrote:

Well Rick, I respect your opinion and believe this to be true.  However, I'm
guessing you are like most of us on this list, & also older than dirt. And
from what I can garner, like Joe says, over time  WD-40 has had its
propellant changed from propane to carbon dioxide. You can spray it into a
flame and it will put the flame out.
I don't think it works for engine starting anymmore. However, I could be
wrong.  I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

Bill Coleman
C&C 39


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Brass
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:27 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

WD-40 was the diesel starting fluid of choice among the diesel mechanics I
knew. It is more combustible than diesel and much less explosive than ether.
Apparently it helps the first cold squirts of diesel to ignite and burn more
fully, which heats up the cylinder walls and promotes ignition. Most would
not use ether because of the potential for the ether to ignite too soon and
cause piston, pin, or connecting rod failures.

No diesel engine will start with fuel, pump, etc turned off. Cough maybe,
but not start.

Diesel starting was about the only thing my mechanic friends used wd-40 for,
actually. The penetrating oil of choice was PB-Blaster.


Rick Brass
Washington, NC



-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Coleman
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 5:54 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting a diesel

I have heard this remedy many times as well, and I always kept a can of
WD-40 on the boat for an emergency.
Then one time I actually tried it , several ways with fuel off, pump off,
etc, couldn't even get a dry fart out of my 107 Perkins. That was it, the
can came off the boat and up the hill.
I don't know anyone who has actually gotten this "Miracle Juice" to work for
engine starting, I would be curious to hear if anyone else has? I believe it
is mostly Stoddard Solvent -

Bill Coleman
C&C 39




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Re: Stus-List Starting a Universal

[Steve Thomas]

The glow plugs draw a lot of power, and that may be slowing down your engine 
cranking speed somewhat.

It is not unusual for system voltage to drop below the minimum required by 
electronic devices while cranking.

One thing to watch out for is exhaust water getting back into the engine during 
extended cranking.
I have a leak at the exhaust elbow which is hard to pin down for the above 
reason. Can't just hook up a garden hose to the water
injector. Oh joy, oh joy.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of David Knecht
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 5:03 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting a Universal


I have some more data on my engine issues.  I tried to start it yesterday at 
the slip from battery alone and could not get it to
start although it turned over just fine. I plugged into shore power and got it 
to start after several tries and at that point I
realized that it was in gear (the transmission lever is sticky so it is hard to 
tell neutral from either gear). However, I was
never able to get it to start with glow plug held in while starting.  There was 
no response when I tried this whether on shore
power or battery.  It started up fine from battery several times in the course 
of the afternoon.  However, after one of those
starts, I noticed the GPS was restarting.  Apparently the draw from the starter 
had caused it to shut off.  I plan to measure the
battery voltage next time I am down there as the boat will now have been 
sitting off shore power for a few days, so I should be
able to get an accurate reading.  I plan to eventually take off the engine 
panel and try to clean the starter and glow plug
contacts.  Anything else I should be looking at?  Thanks- Dave




David Knecht
Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT


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Re: Stus-List Starting a Universal

[David Knecht]

In the Been There/ Done That department, I would like to mention that if the engine does not start in the first 5-10 seconds, I always close the raw water intake stopcock before proceeding.   I have made that mistake once in the past and don't intend to repeat an engine rebuild experience.  DaveOn May 19, 2013, at 5:25 PM, Steve Thomas  wrote:






The 
glow plugs draw a lot of power, and that may be slowing down your engine 
cranking speed somewhat. 
 
It is 
not unusual for system voltage to drop below the minimum required by electronic 
devices while cranking. 
 
One thing to watch out for is exhaust water getting back into 
the engine during extended cranking. 
I have 
a leak at the exhaust elbow which is hard to pin down for the above 
reason. Can't just hook up a garden hose to the water 
injector. Oh joy, oh joy.
 
Steve 
Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
 
 

David KnechtAries1990 C&C 34+New London, CT

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Re: Stus-List Starting a Universal

[Briard6]

Another possibility...the starter itself may be drawing  way to much power. 
This can be due to a variety of factors including badly worn  brushes, 
internal corrosion, bad solenoid
 
Another possibility that occurred on my C&C was bad  internal corrosion 
where the battery connectors attach to the battery cables.  The corrosion was 
hard to spot, but evident when we cut away the vinyl connector  cover.
 
I have glow plug systems on a tractor and my car, and  don't believe that 
they draw enough power to prevent the starter from working,  unless the 
batteries are VERY weak.
 
Bill
MYSTY
Landfall 39
 
 
In a message dated 5/19/2013 5:39:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
davidakne...@gmail.com writes:



In the Been There/ Done That department, I would like to  mention that if 
the engine does not start in the first 5-10 seconds, I always  close the raw 
water intake stopcock before proceeding.   I have made that  mistake once in 
the past and don't intend to repeat an engine rebuild  experience.  Dave  


On May 19, 2013, at 5:25 PM, Steve Thomas <_sthoma20@sympatico.ca_ 
(mailto:sthom...@sympatico.ca) >  wrote:



The glow plugs draw a lot of power, and that may be slowing down  your 
engine cranking speed somewhat. 
 
It  is not unusual for system voltage to drop below the minimum required by 
 electronic devices while cranking. 
 
One thing to watch out for is exhaust water getting back  into the engine 
during extended cranking. 
I  have a leak at the exhaust elbow which is hard to pin down for the  
above reason. Can't just hook up a garden hose to the water  injector. Oh joy, 
oh joy.
 
Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
 
 






 
David Knecht
Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT




=

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Stus-List Theoretical Hull Speed

[sam . c . salter]

 My 26 has a theoretical hull speed around 61/4 knots. I've had 7.9 on a beam reach once with main and 135% genoa. So your not alone! I guess the optimum word is theoretical. Sam Salter C&C 26 Liquorice Ghost Lake Alberta 

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Re: Stus-List Hull speed

[Chuck S]

Your speed sounds correct.  Remember the waterline grows longer as the boat heels so you have to plug that into your formula.ChuckResolute1990 C&C 34RAtlantic City, NJFrom: "David Knecht" To: "CnC CnC discussion list" Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 3:47:06 PMSubject: Stus-List Hull speedI had my "new" C&C 34+ out for a first sail this week on a blustery day.  I am not sure what it was blowing (my wind instrument is awaiting delivery of a pod) but I would guess in the 15 knot area.  We had up main and 100% genoa and were doing 7.5 knots steady peaking near 8 knots on a close reach.  This is alot faster than my 34 would do under these conditions (note smile on face of skipper), so I put the hull through a hull speed calculator based on the 29.75 foot LWL listed in the specs.  It was calculated at 7 knots.  The GPS and speedo agreed that I was going faster than this, so now I am curious as to what hull speed actually would be expected.  Thanks- Dave
David KnechtAries1990 C&C 34+New London, CT


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Stus-List She floats!

[Steve Hood]

The boat is afloat, the stick is up, let summer begin.Best wishes to all CnC'rs for a great sailing season!Steve HoodC&C 34Diamond GirlLion's Head ON  Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Rogers network. From: cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.comSent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 12:08 PMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comReply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.comSubject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 88, Issue 58Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to	cnc-list@cnc-list.comTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit	http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.comor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to	cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.comYou can reach the person managing the list at	cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.comWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..."Today's Topics:   1. Re:  Atomic 4 history was Marine vs Automotive parts  (the.vini...@rogers.com)   2. Re:  Season Has Begun! (Josh Muckley)   3. Re:  Season Has Begun! (Chuck S)   4.  My A4 and Me - Best Friends Forever (was A4 Blues - Redux)  (Bob Moriarty)   5. Re:  Season Has Begun! (Edd Schillay)   6. Re:  ; Chesapeake Rendezvous? (Richard N. Bush)   7. Re:  Starting a diesel (Bill Coleman)   8.  Singlehanded Troubleshooting (Bob Moriarty)--Message: 1Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 19:37:34 -0400From: To: Subject: Re: Stus-List Atomic 4 history was Marine vs Automotive partsMessage-ID: <3407B33CF38A49FA82F6E3DC3B82E55B@Jack>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"HI:I have heard that The A 4 were the work hours or the  WW 11  jeeps engines.And after the war they were used for farm equipment and boats.Just hear say"!Jack.From: djhaug...@juno.com Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 11:46 AMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Atomic 4 history was Marine vs Automotive partsYEA!!  Thats some history!  I'm a proud A4 owner.  Its like the harley davidson in boating!-- Original Message --From: dre...@gmail.comTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comSubject: Stus-List Atomic 4 history was Marine vs Automotive partsDate: Fri, 17 May 2013 11:41:34 -0400Hi,This is from Wikipedia:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Atomic_4The Atomic 4 is descended from an earlier Universal Motor Company design called the Utility Four, which was used extensively in World War II by the United States Navy and allies to power the lifeboats for the ships, barges, and tankers of many navies and merchant marine fleets. The Utility Four was replaced by the Atomic 4 in 1947.-Paul E.1979 C&C 29 Mk1S/V Johanna RoseCarrabelle, FLOn May 17, 2013, at 8:33 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:  Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 09:23:05 -0300  From: "Hoyt, Mike"   To:   Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine vs Automotive parts  Message-ID:  <4cdebb6b0f16c541ba8f985b72705d5416021...@hfxexc02.impgroup.com>  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"  I once heard a story that the Atomic 4 was the power plant in the WW II  landing craft.  Anyone know if this is true?___This List is provided by the C&C Photo Albumhttp://www.cncphotoalbum.comCnC-List@cnc-list.com-- next part --An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: --Message: 2Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 19:41:28 -0400From: Josh Muckley To: cnc-list@cnc-list.comSubject: Re: Stus-List Season Has Begun!Message-ID:	Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"Edd,What year is is your C&C?  Daring going for a white bottom.  Looks good!Is there something sticking out of the transom on the port side?Josh MuckleyS/V Sea Hawk1989 C&C 37+-- When security matters.http://www.secure-my-email.comOn May 18, 2013 8:39 AM, "Edd Schillay"  wrote:> Listers,>> I am proud to announce that the Starship Enterprise launched yesterday> afternoon with the tide!>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5s15hzgwx3mh6v1/2013-05-17%2015.34.23.jpg> We will continue the voyages we have begun, exploring strange new worlds> and new civilizations, boldly going where no man has gone before.>> (And yes, we saw the new film the night before -- great movie!)>>> All the best,>> Edd>> ---> Edd M. Schillay> Starship Enterprise> NCC-1701-B> C&C 37+ | City Island, NY> ---> 914.332.4400  | Office> 914.332.1671  | Fax> 914.774.9767  | Mobile> 

Re: Stus-List Theoretical Hull Speed

[Bill Bina]

  
  
Theoretical hull speed is rarely
  exactly calculated, as there are factors in play besides just
  length of waterline. Length of water line is just the most
  prominent factor. Beam relative to length, wetted surface, etc,
  all play minor roles. That said, hull speed is really just a
  "sweet spot" where the effiency of a displacement hull has reached
  it's maximum potential. To get any additional speed, you need a
  LOT more power. Dubling you power applied will not give you very
  much additional speed.  I can get my boat to it's hull speed under
  power at about 1/4 throttle. To go noticeably (a little) faster, I
  have to go almost to full throttle. That is in flat water with
  relatively no current. The place where a bigger engine, or more
  throttle, makes a difference in a displacement hull is the better
  acceleration (up  to hull speed) that gives you quicker recovery
  after being hit by waves head-on.  Also be aware that hull speed
  is speed through the water, not speed over ground. The direction
  of the current counts! Your GPS may say you are doing 8 knots, but
  2 of that may be the outgoing tide that is adding to your speed
  over ground, but not your speed through the water. I'm using
  motoring in my examples because it is a little simpler to explain
  and understand without all the added information as to point of
  sail, windspeed, sails being flown, etc.
  
  Bill Bina
  
  On 5/19/2013 7:41 PM, sam.c.sal...@gmail.com wrote:


  
  
  My 26 has a theoretical hull speed around 61/4 knots. I've
had 7.9 on a beam reach once with main and 135% genoa. So your
not alone! I guess the optimum word is theoretical. 
  Sam Salter 
  C&C 26 Liquorice 
  Ghost Lake Alberta 
  


  


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Re: Stus-List Theoretical Hull Speed

[sam . c . salter]

I was on a lake so current wasn't a factor.   sam :-) 403-617-6280 From: Bill BinaSent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 6:19 PMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comReply To: billb...@sbcglobal.netSubject: Re: Stus-List Theoretical Hull Speed
  

  
  
Theoretical hull speed is rarely
  exactly calculated, as there are factors in play besides just
  length of waterline. Length of water line is just the most
  prominent factor. Beam relative to length, wetted surface, etc,
  all play minor roles. That said, hull speed is really just a
  "sweet spot" where the effiency of a displacement hull has reached
  it's maximum potential. To get any additional speed, you need a
  LOT more power. Dubling you power applied will not give you very
  much additional speed.  I can get my boat to it's hull speed under
  power at about 1/4 throttle. To go noticeably (a little) faster, I
  have to go almost to full throttle. That is in flat water with
  relatively no current. The place where a bigger engine, or more
  throttle, makes a difference in a displacement hull is the better
  acceleration (up  to hull speed) that gives you quicker recovery
  after being hit by waves head-on.  Also be aware that hull speed
  is speed through the water, not speed over ground. The direction
  of the current counts! Your GPS may say you are doing 8 knots, but
  2 of that may be the outgoing tide that is adding to your speed
  over ground, but not your speed through the water. I'm using
  motoring in my examples because it is a little simpler to explain
  and understand without all the added information as to point of
  sail, windspeed, sails being flown, etc.
  
  Bill Bina
  
  On 5/19/2013 7:41 PM, sam.c.sal...@gmail.com wrote:


  
  
  My 26 has a theoretical hull speed around 61/4 knots. I've
had 7.9 on a beam reach once with main and 135% genoa. So your
not alone! I guess the optimum word is theoretical. 
  Sam Salter 
  C&C 26 Liquorice 
  Ghost Lake Alberta 
  


  


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Re: Stus-List WD-40 substitutes

[Knowles Rich]

I had a guy in my department in Newfoundland who swore that the only good cure 
for arthritis was a daily shot of WD40 on the affected parts of his body, 
elbows, knees and various normally invisible bits. The biggest problem was 
getting the health plan to recognise it as a conforming drug. 

Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax

On 2013-05-19, at 13:15, Chuck S  wrote:


WD-40 stands for Water Displacement formula 40 and first sold in 1958.   

PB-Blaster
A penetrating oil used to free stuck parts

T-9 
is better for lubricating hardware, lifeline turnbuckles, metal to metal 
surfaces, leaves a waxing film.

MacLube SailKote
is best on mainsail slides, mainsail luff tracks, furler sail tracks

Lanacote
waxy butter used on SS screws going into aluminum mast stops corrosion

Tef-Gel
used similarly as Lanacote


Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ
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Re: Stus-List She floats!

[Joel Aronson]

Congrats!

Calling in sick tomorrow?

Joel
Sent from my iPad

On May 19, 2013, at 8:15 PM, Steve Hood  wrote:

The boat is afloat, the stick is up, let summer begin.

Best wishes to all CnC'rs for a great sailing season!

Steve Hood
C&C 34
Diamond Girl
Lion's Head ON
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Re: Stus-List Theoretical Hull Speed

[Bill Bina]

  
  
As I pointed out, hull speed CAN be
  exceeded. It just takes exponentially more power to do so. Hull
  speed is a threshold, not an absolute barrier. It is very possible
  that the figure you are using as your theoretical hull speed may
  not be 100% accurate either. If you observed this speed on a GPS,
  it may have been distorted by the boat veering direction, or
  riding up and dropping off of waves, all of which can be faster
  movements than your forward progress. I have a 27-5 which, under
  the right conditions, planes fairly easily and hits significantly
  above theoretical hull speed for prolonged periods. A GPS cannot
  be used for determining speed through the water, which is all that
  counts when talking about hull speed. 
  
  Bill Bina
  
  On 5/19/2013 8:25 PM, sam.c.sal...@gmail.com wrote:


  I was on a lake so current wasn't a
factor. 
  
  
  sam :-) 403-617-6280
  

  

  
From: Bill Bina
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 6:19 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Reply To: billb...@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: Stus-List Theoretical Hull
  Speed
  

  

  
  
  

Theoretical hull speed is rarely
  exactly calculated, as there are factors in play besides just
  length of waterline. Length of water line is just the most
  prominent factor. Beam relative to length, wetted surface,
  etc, all play minor roles. That said, hull speed is really
  just a "sweet spot" where the effiency of a displacement hull
  has reached it's maximum potential. To get any additional
  speed, you need a LOT more power. Dubling you power applied
  will not give you very much additional speed.  I can get my
  boat to it's hull speed under power at about 1/4 throttle. To
  go noticeably (a little) faster, I have to go almost to full
  throttle. That is in flat water with relatively no current.
  The place where a bigger engine, or more throttle, makes a
  difference in a displacement hull is the better acceleration
  (up  to hull speed) that gives you quicker recovery after
  being hit by waves head-on.  Also be aware that hull speed is
  speed through the water, not speed over ground. The direction
  of the current counts! Your GPS may say you are doing 8 knots,
  but 2 of that may be the outgoing tide that is adding to your
  speed over ground, but not your speed through the water. I'm
  using motoring in my examples because it is a little simpler
  to explain and understand without all the added information as
  to point of sail, windspeed, sails being flown, etc.
  
  Bill Bina
  
  On 5/19/2013 7:41 PM, sam.c.sal...@gmail.com
  wrote:


  
  
  My 26 has a theoretical hull speed around 61/4 knots.
I've had 7.9 on a beam reach once with main and 135% genoa.
So your not alone! I guess the optimum word is theoretical. 
  Sam Salter 
  C&C 26 Liquorice 
  Ghost Lake Alberta 
  


  


  


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Stus-List 35-3 Mast height

[Kim Brown]

Anyone actually measured their mast height on their 35-3.  Spec in the
Owners Manual is 50.5 feet mast head to water. I measured today and am
coming up about a foot shorter at 49.2 feet. With the windex -including bird
spike - 50.83 feet.  Boat is loaded for trip but not that much (rudder top
still well above water). Did the centerboard boats perhaps get a slightly
shorter rig?  The reason this matters is that we are headed across FL next
week and there is this '49' foot bridge the Army Corp currently show as
having a clearance of 50.83 feet (seriously -they worked out exactly the
same- like the gods are tempting me) due to low water in Lake
Okeechobee If I am really that short I should be able to go through the
bridge with nothing more than a ting or two from the bird spike. (tried to
get the windex off today but it is corroded in place). Alternative is to pay
the guy who tips boats $200 (each way). So has anyone else with a 35-3 come
up short? (Can't wait to see the response to that set-up) Or do I need to
check my math again (did it 3x). I could see an inch or two variance but
this is more than a foot? 

Thanks 

Kim Brown
TrustMe!!!
35-3



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Re: Stus-List Starting a Universal

[Rick Brass]

David,

 

Your glow plugs probably draw something like 15-20 amps. On my M35B (which
is basically a newer version of your M4-30) my glow plug relay is wired
through a 25 amp breaker.

 

Download the Installation Manual for your engine from the Westerbeke site.
It will tell you the anticipated current draw of the starter in the section
where it talks about sizing the battery cables. The starter on my  36hp M35B
is designed to draw 175 amps. Glow plugs plus cranking will draw the battery
voltage down by almost 2 volts, to something like 10.2 or 10.4. 

 

Bill is correct in telling you the problem is more likely corrosion/loose
connections in the starter cable or an developing problem in an older
starter.

 

BTW, I have noticed the same thing you have with the new Garmin 541
plotter/sounder at the helm - it shuts off when the engine is started.  It
is wired to the "Compass" light switch in the engine panel and gets power
through the panel 12v lead, which goes back to that 25 amp breaker on the
engine and from there to a connection on the starter solenoid. The plotter
at the nav station and all of the other instruments get power from a
separate cable that connects from the battery selector switch to the back of
the breaker panel, and none of them shut down when starting.

 

Running a power wire from the breaker panel to the helm GPS is one of my
future projects. I hope it cures the situation with the Garmin 541 shutting
off.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
bria...@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 6:17 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Starting a Universal

 

Another possibility...the starter itself may be drawing way to much power.
This can be due to a variety of factors including badly worn brushes,
internal corrosion, bad solenoid

 

Another possibility that occurred on my C&C was bad internal corrosion where
the battery connectors attach to the battery cables. The corrosion was hard
to spot, but evident when we cut away the vinyl connector cover.

 

I have glow plug systems on a tractor and my car, and don't believe that
they draw enough power to prevent the starter from working, unless the
batteries are VERY weak.

 

Bill

MYSTY

Landfall 39

 

The glow plugs draw a lot of power, and that may be slowing down your engine
cranking speed somewhat. 

 

It is not unusual for system voltage to drop below the minimum required by
electronic devices while cranking. 

 

One thing to watch out for is exhaust water getting back into the engine
during extended cranking. 

I have a leak at the exhaust elbow which is hard to pin down for the above
reason. Can't just hook up a garden hose to the water injector. Oh joy, oh
joy.

 

Steve Thomas

C&C27 MKIII

 

 

 

David Knecht

Aries

1990 C&C 34+

New London, CT





=

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Re: Stus-List 35-3 Mast height

[Joel Aronson]

How did you measure?

Joel
Sent from my iPad

On May 19, 2013, at 9:35 PM, Kim Brown  wrote:

> Anyone actually measured their mast height on their 35-3.  Spec in the
> Owners Manual is 50.5 feet mast head to water. I measured today and am
> coming up about a foot shorter at 49.2 feet. With the windex -including bird
> spike - 50.83 feet.  Boat is loaded for trip but not that much (rudder top
> still well above water). Did the centerboard boats perhaps get a slightly
> shorter rig?  The reason this matters is that we are headed across FL next
> week and there is this '49' foot bridge the Army Corp currently show as
> having a clearance of 50.83 feet (seriously -they worked out exactly the
> same- like the gods are tempting me) due to low water in Lake
> Okeechobee If I am really that short I should be able to go through the
> bridge with nothing more than a ting or two from the bird spike. (tried to
> get the windex off today but it is corroded in place). Alternative is to pay
> the guy who tips boats $200 (each way). So has anyone else with a 35-3 come
> up short? (Can't wait to see the response to that set-up) Or do I need to
> check my math again (did it 3x). I could see an inch or two variance but
> this is more than a foot?
>
> Thanks
>
> Kim Brown
> TrustMe!!!
> 35-3
>
>
>
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> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
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Re: Stus-List 35-3 Mast height

[Dennis C.]

Don't know how Kim measured his but I taped the bottom third of a long dowel to 
the main halyard, attached a 100 foot tape to the top of the dowel and hoisted 
it so the tape, when viewed from down the pier, was even with the points I 
wanted to measure; mast head, windex, wind instrument, antenna, etc.

I lowered the tape to the waterline.  That should be an inch or so longer than 
the actual height if swung to the vessel's centerline, i.e., my safety factor.

As for transiting bridges, some bridges have more clearance 1 or 2 openings 
left or right of the marked channel.  The center opening(s) often have a deep 
steel girder due to the wider span.  The other openings may have shorter 
concrete spans.  If there is adequate depth, the adventurous sailboat owner may 
pass through one of the side openings.  

I've heard of boaters using golf rangefinders to estimate vertical clearance.  
If so, they are at the mercy of the accuracy of the device.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA



>
> From: Joel Aronson 
>To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
>Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 8:51 PM
>Subject: Re: Stus-List 35-3 Mast height
> 
>
>How did you measure?
>
>Joel
>Sent from my iPad
>
>On May 19, 2013, at 9:35 PM, Kim Brown  wrote:
>
>> Anyone actually measured their mast height on their 35-3.  Spec in the
>> Owners Manual is 50.5 feet mast head to water. I measured today and am
>> coming up about a foot shorter at 49.2 feet. With the windex -including bird
>> spike - 50.83 feet.  Boat is loaded for trip but not that much (rudder top
>> still well above water). Did the centerboard boats perhaps get a slightly
>> shorter rig?  The reason this matters is that we are headed across FL next
>> week and there is this '49' foot bridge the Army Corp currently show as
>> having a clearance of 50.83 feet (seriously -they worked out exactly the
>> same- like the gods are tempting me) due to low water in Lake
>> Okeechobee If I am really that short I should be able to go through the
>> bridge with nothing more than a ting or two from the bird spike. (tried to
>> get the windex off today but it is corroded in place). Alternative is to pay
>> the guy who tips boats $200 (each way). So has anyone else with a 35-3 come
>> up short? (Can't wait to see the response to that set-up) Or do I need to
>> check my math again (did it 3x). I could see an inch or two variance but
>> this is more than a foot?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Kim Brown
>> TrustMe!!!
>> 35-3
>>
>>
>>
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>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
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>
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>
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Re: Stus-List 35-3 Mast height

[Rick Brass]

Given a 46 ft "I" dimension, 50 or 51 foot air draft is probably in the ball
park. Depends on what you have for lights, transducers, and antennas at the
top of the mast.

Don't worry too much about the 49 ft bridge on the Okeechobee Waterway.
Check your cruising guide for the contact information of the company that
tips boats to get them under the bridge. It's a common thing. They attach
bladders of water to your halyards to tip the boat and reduce the air draft,
and that gets you under the bridge.

If the lake is down by 3 feet, increasing the bridge clearance, you might
want to check the depth of the channels, too. I seem to recall the channels
are not much over 6-8 feet in normal water. 

Rick Brass
Washington, NC


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Kim Brown
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 9:35 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List 35-3 Mast height

Anyone actually measured their mast height on their 35-3.  Spec in the
Owners Manual is 50.5 feet mast head to water. I measured today and am
coming up about a foot shorter at 49.2 feet. With the windex -including bird
spike - 50.83 feet.  Boat is loaded for trip but not that much (rudder top
still well above water). Did the centerboard boats perhaps get a slightly
shorter rig?  The reason this matters is that we are headed across FL next
week and there is this '49' foot bridge the Army Corp currently show as
having a clearance of 50.83 feet (seriously -they worked out exactly the
same- like the gods are tempting me) due to low water in Lake
Okeechobee If I am really that short I should be able to go through the
bridge with nothing more than a ting or two from the bird spike. (tried to
get the windex off today but it is corroded in place). Alternative is to pay
the guy who tips boats $200 (each way). So has anyone else with a 35-3 come
up short? (Can't wait to see the response to that set-up) Or do I need to
check my math again (did it 3x). I could see an inch or two variance but
this is more than a foot? 

Thanks 

Kim Brown
TrustMe!!!
35-3



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