[cctalk] Re: Can someone explain...

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Money laundering?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 21, 2022, at 13:52, William Sudbrink via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have verified that those cables go to the IMSAI SIO and PIO boards.  They
> aren't even Altair!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Kelly Leavitt via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 4:28 PM
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Cc: Kelly Leavitt 
> Subject: [cctalk] Re: Can someone explain...
> 
> I could be selling a mint working Apple I and I wouldn't get bids like this.
> 
> 
> From: Chris Zach via cctalk 
> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2022 4:22 PM
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org 
> Cc: Chris Zach 
> Subject: [cctalk] Re: Can someone explain...
> 
> I am selling the wrong things.
> 
> CZ
> 
>> On 7/21/2022 2:37 PM, William Sudbrink via cctalk wrote:
>> Now 455 ?!?!?!?!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: William Sudbrink [mailto:wh.sudbr...@verizon.net]
>> Sent: Monday, July 18, 2022 10:56 AM
>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
>> (cctalk@classiccmp.org) 
>> Subject: Can someone explain...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Why anybody would bid more than three hundred dollars for a bunch of 
>> ribbon cables?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/234623364778?hash=item36a0a46eaa:g:y1oAAOSwwQ
>> diz550
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Unless there's something I'm not seeing here, I can easily (and 
>> exactly) reproduce them.
>> 
>> I could even make them with red or "rainbow" cables if you prefer.  
>> I'll do a set for the
>> 
>> "bargain" price of $250.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Bill S.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 

[cctalk] Re: BBS memorabilia

[Wayne S via cctalk]

The computer shoppers in the ‘80s and 90’s were full of BBS listings. Might 
look there.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 1, 2022, at 18:58, Ryan de Laplante via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 1, 2022, at 11:49 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 8/1/22 06:26, Ryan de Laplante via cctalk wrote:
>>> Over the years I have been collecting BBS related memorabilia such as Night 
>>> Owl shareware CDs, Boardwatch magazine, BBS magazine, books, manuals, 
>>> original disks, etc.  Does anyone have any BBS memorabilia they might be 
>>> willing to sell to me?   I’m particularly interested in PCBoard 
>>> box/disks/manuals.  I know the software can be downloaded from the 
>>> Internet.. I’m interested in the original box set.  I’m also interested in 
>>> CRS Online pamphlets, receipts, catalogues, etc.  
>>> 
>>> Has anyone ever seen promotional videos showing Prodigy, Compuserv, Delphi, 
>>> GENie, AOL?  I've collected disks, but the systems are long gone so 
>>> archived video is all we have to remember them by.  When I was young, I 
>>> remember seeing disks and pamphlets for these services in the box when 
>>> upgrading modems. They had serious brand recognition. By the time the 
>>> Internet was becoming available to the public, I remember being more 
>>> interested in getting a Compuserv account lol.  After getting our first 
>>> Internet account in 1994, I was confused because I didn’t know where the 
>>> “file areas”, “message areas” and “chat” were after being so used to BBS 
>>> menus. Eventually I learned about FTP, USENET, and IRC.  We even had a 
>>> “yellow pages” paper book where you could look up topic specific FTP, 
>>> USENET, and Gopher sites.  
>>> 
>> I have a couple of the more obscure BBS packages, such as Auntie--are
>> you interested in the disks for those?
>> 
>> —Chuck
> 
> Thank you Chuck.   You’re right, I’ve never heard of Auntie.   Thanks for 
> letting me know about it, but I’m mainly interested in the more mainstream 
> ones.  I had no idea how many BBS software packages existed until looking at 
> Jason Scott’s list:
> 
> http://software.bbsdocumentary.com/ 
> 
> Unbelievable!   The ones that I can remember being used locally were Remote 
> Access, RBBS, Renegade, Telegard, PCBoard, Maximus, Wildcat, Worldgroup, 
> Illusion, MajorBBS, maybe Mystic BBS.   I did all of my BBSing in the 1990s 
> using IBM PC / DOS / Windows / OS2 and ran a Maximus BBS.I never used 
> Commodore or Apple BBSes and wasn’t aware of any in my local calling area. 
> Actually I remember the librarian at school had a B&W Macintosh and showed me 
> an Apple BBS for schools (I think).  If I remember correctly it was called 
> Global Village.
> 
> The terminal software I used to use was QuickLink Fax III, Procomm Plus 2.x 
> for Windows, TELIX then later Hyper Terminal.  TELIX was my favourite because 
> it was full screen. SyncTerm is the modern day equivalent, but it’s not 
> the same experience on massive wide screen monitors. To get the proper 
> experience I think you need to be using a 15” or smaller curved CRT in a full 
> screen DOS window.  
> 
> 
> Ryan
> 
> 
> 

[cctalk] Re: DECnet to be dropped from Linux

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Does dropping Decnet mean the the commercial versions like Redhat and any 
others that you pay support for will also lose Decnet?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 2, 2022, at 12:12, Grant Taylor via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 8/2/22 12:42 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>> I think the context was TCP as an alternative transport, given the fading 
>> DECnet support in Linux.  And yes, that's an option for Unix and VMS, but 
>> not for a number of other DEC operating systems that have no TCP option.
> 
> Okay.  I hadn't considered other DEC OSs that don't support TCP/IP.
> 
> How prevalent is the use of DEC OSs that don't support TCP/IP?
> 
> Could such use cases suffice with a non-current Linux kernel that still 
> includes support for DECnet?
> 
> I'm trying to understand how many installations are actually using DECnet in 
> Linux / how big the potential problem is / will be.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die

[cctalk] Re: DECnet to be dropped from Linux

[Wayne S via cctalk]

I naively assume that since Decnet is a mature product supporting it just means 
testing it with new versions of Linux so not too much work is needed. If a 
linux distro keeps it it adds value to that distro. So, in the future, Redhat, 
for example, might be the only distro left supporting it so if you need Decnet 
you’ll want Redhat. This Creates a niche market by default.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 2, 2022, at 13:12, Grant Taylor via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 8/2/22 1:56 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
>> Does dropping Decnet mean the the commercial versions like Redhat and any 
>> others that you pay support for will also lose Decnet?
> 
> I imagine that even commercially supported distributions will eventually 
> loose DECnet support.  --  I don't see how they can realistically avoid it.
> 
> Red Hat is notorious for avoiding the bleeding edge and porting things across 
> kernel versions.  So I suspect that they would have support longer than 
> something like Debian et al.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die

[cctalk] Re: DECnet to be dropped from Linux

[Wayne S via cctalk]

It might not be worth it to redhat.
I wonder how many govt entities are still using DEC machines and can’t replace 
them easily. 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 2, 2022, at 13:47, Grant Taylor via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 8/2/22 2:37 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
>> I naively assume that since Decnet is a mature product supporting it just 
>> means testing it with new versions of Linux so not too much work is needed. 
>> If a linux distro keeps it it adds value to that distro.
> 
> Fair enough.
> 
> I think the problem is going to manifest itself if ~> when the kernel changes 
> so that it's no longer compatible with the old DECnet code and / or there is 
> a security problem.
> 
> The kernel is constantly moving.  At some point the distance between the 
> contemporary kernel and the DECnet code is too great and things fail.
> 
>> So, in the future, Redhat, for example, might be the only distro left 
>> supporting it so if you need Decnet you’ll want Redhat. This Creates a niche 
>> market by default.
> 
> I question if there is enough demand for it to be worth Red Hat's / etc's 
> time and effort to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die

[cctalk] Re: DECnet to be dropped from Linux

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Since dropping DECNET is just a proposal and needs to be voted on, what’s the 
chance the vote will pass?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 4, 2022, at 14:08, Grant Taylor via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 8/4/22 2:12 PM, Doc Shipley via cctalk wrote:
>> This becomes an actual showstopper when the most recent hardware platform 
>> that will run the most recent Linux kernel to support DECNet becomes 
>> impossible to maintain.
> 
> I'm not convinced that the inability to boot the newest kernel that supports 
> DECnet will be in and of itself a show stopper.
> 
> I believe it will be possible to run said kernel as a user space process a 
> la. User Mode Linux (arch=um) with a virtual NIC that is bridged to the 
> external Ethernet NIC.
> 
> There's still the possibility of running the older kernel in a VM even when 
> it won't run native on the hardware.
> 
>> In other words you'll probably want to put your DECNet bridge system behind 
>> a more current firewall fairly soon, but DECNet in current Linux 
>> distributions will not stop working then it's dropped from future versions.
> 
> I suspect that is and has been the case for a good while.  ;-)
> 
>> No offense, people, but the sky is not falling.
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die

[cctalk] Re: Mac SE/30 + SCSI2SD: Disk errors and random crashes

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Intermittent power supply problem? 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 11, 2022, at 10:55, David Glover-Aoki via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have a recently recapped SE/30, and I have installed a SCSI2SD (v5.0a) 
> inside it. I don't have a (working) CD drive, and the floppy drive is broken, 
> so I configured SCSI device 3 to be a CD-ROM drive, and put the System 7.5.3 
> installer inside it, along with a copy of the patched "HD SC Setup" utility, 
> so I can format the other SCSI devices, which are configured as 2GB hard 
> disks.
> 
> Booting from the "CD" works fine. Formatting the disks works fine.
> 
> I cannot get the System 7.5.3 installer to complete. After copying a few 
> files, it complains that an error occurred, and then aborts.
> 
> Additionally, if I attempt to copy the contents of the "CD" to a hard disk, 
> after copying a few files, I get an error that says a "disk error" occurred. 
> It's not the same file every time, it copies a random number of files 
> successfully before erroring.
> 
> I've have also had a few random bomb errors, although these do not happen 
> reliably and I haven't managed to come up with a way of causing them on 
> demand. They may have stopped after I swapped the RAM, although that is 
> speculation.
> 
> Things that I have tried:
> 
> * Playing with the "SCSI Host", "SCSI Selection Delay", "Enable Parity", 
> "Respond to short SCSI selection pulses" settings on the SCSI2SD. No 
> combination seems to make any noticeable difference.
> 
> * Swapping out the RAM on the SE/30. I initially thought the RAM was bad, but 
> I replaced it with a different set and the symptoms are exactly the same.
> 
> * Removing the case back, in case something was overheating inside.
> 
> * Replacing the microSD card with a different one.
> 
> None of these have altered the symptoms at all, and I'm running out of ideas. 
> Any suggestions would be very welcome.
> 
> David
> 

[cctalk] Re: PDP Straight-8 front panel

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Rod Smallwood has done reproductions i think. He is on cctalk.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 14, 2022, at 19:16, Ryan de Laplante via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have a DEC PDP Straight-8 in very poor condition.  The paint behind the 
> panel glass has mostly flecked off, the glass is broken and it is missing 
> some switch covers/toggles. The plexiglass covers were also destroyed during 
> shipment.  The seller very carefully built a wooden crate and pallet to 
> protect the machine during transport, but United Cargo laid the whole wooden 
> crate on its side!!  >(   
> 
> Does anyone know of any front panel collector who has a Straight-8 front 
> panel that they might be willing to sell?  I’d love to restore this machine.  
>  I’ve been looking for local plexiglass manufacturers but none of them answer 
> my email when I show pictures of the project.   I guess they don’t need the 
> business.
> 
> 

[cctalk] Re: HP 150 software

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Any chance you could upload them to the internet archive for posterity?


Wayne


> On Sep 6, 2022, at 10:56 PM, Stan Sieler via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I found a bunch of original HP 150 software on 3.5" floppies ...
> any HP 150 collectors here?Free, pickup, Cupertino.
> 
> Includes the following.  About 1/2 are original disks.
> 
> The most unusual are probably the compilers from Prospero, and the
> IMAGE-like database (Mirage?) from Datasoft International (the developer
> was likely Michel Kohon, from France, and a member of the HP 3000
> community).
> 
> Datacom:
>   DSN/Link
>   HP PCLink
>   Kermit
>   PC2622
>   Reflection 1 Plus
> 
> Misc / Unknown:
>   Ally/150
>   Application Master Extended I/O Application
>   Cardfile (full app)
>   Cardfile demo
>   Computer tutor 150
>   Edit/150 from KSD systems Limited
>   Infocom sampler
>   Interex CSL/100 volume 56
>   Interex CSL150  (contributed library)
>   Mentor version 1.E.1 from KSD systems Limited
>   System demo
>   Thinkjet demo
>   Visicalc
> 
> Games:
>   Tick Tock, Radar, Othello, others
>   Type attack, Temple of Apshai, Ricochet
>   Winning Deal
>   Zork
> 
> Programming...
>   C (unknown...just says "C" on label)
>   Lattice C
>   MASM
>   Modula 2
>   MVP Forth (on misc games floppy)
>   Pro Fortran from Prospero
>  Pro For 1  (possibly same as above)
>   Pro Pascal from Prospero
>   Borland Turbo Pascal 2.0
> 
>   ISV Development  (from HP)
>   ISV revision A.1.2 (Independent Software Vendor toolkit from HP?)
>   Programmers Toolkit  (HP)
>   Programmers tools: debug, sort, find, edlin, ece2bin, ...more... (HP)
> 
> Database: ???
>   Mirager Version ii 2.A.1 Datasoft International
>   Mirage Library
>   Mirage I
> 
> //

[cctalk] Re: VCF Swap Meet October 8, 2022 @ InfoAge

[Wayne S via cctalk]

It says “ We are in pre-planning for the outdoor swap meet in Wall, NJ (near 
InfoAge). ”

Glasses are good to use when the eyes start to go.🙂

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 11, 2022, at 12:51, Will Cooke via cctalk  wrote:



On 09/11/2022 12:47 PM CDT Jeffrey Brace via cctalk  
wrote:


The following info is found here: https://vcfed.org/vcf-swap-meet/, but I'm
pasting here for your reference.


Interesting.  Unless I'm blind, nowhere in that email or the linked flyer does 
it state what city and state (or country) it's in.

[cctalk] Re: Minicomputer front panel.

[Wayne S via cctalk]

I think the computers got so fast so that having blinking light wasn’t 
feasible. They would be on all the time. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 23, 2022, at 16:27, Jon Elson via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> On 9/23/22 11:53, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>> 
 On Sep 23, 2022, at 12:45 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk 
  wrote:
>>> 
 On 9/22/22 22:56, ben via cctalk wrote:
>>> 
 Blinking lights tended to be for computers of the future.
 World maps with lights where nuclear missiles could strike
 seem to be movie props only.
>>> I thought it curious that many 1960s-1970s supercomputers lacked front
>>> panels and blinking lights altogether.(e.g. Cray I, CDC
>>> Cyber/600/700, etc.)  Indeed, the Cray couldn't even spin a tape without
>>> help from another system doing the I/O.
>> Those are good examples, but is it "many" or just those two and maybe one or 
>> two more?  For example, Burroughs and IBM mainframes were both very much 
>> "lights and switches" control panel type machines.  For that matter, so were 
>> the other CDC products; the 6000 series was a bit of an outlier I think.
> 
> Blinky light front panels went mostly out of style on later machines.  The 
> 360/85 (prototype of the 370/165) went to a scheme with a lamp panel 
> projected onto a microfiche viewer that combined legends from the fiche with 
> the lamp image.  Turning knobs to select a different fiche page brought up 
> different signals to the lamps.  This was a stark departure from the IBM 
> Model 195 panel, which was seriously over the top!  You needed a road atlas 
> to even FIND the indicator you wanted to look at!
> 
> The VAX 11/780 had no panel, just four indicators and a key switch.  The 
> console driven by an LSI-11 was pretty powerful, though.  The KL10B used a 
> PDP-11 as the console and to interface non-MassBus peripherals.
> 
> As for the defense maps, they really DID exist.  Our university had some bits 
> of SAGE, and one of the things was the big map projector.  The way the thing 
> worked was a small CRT was projected onto movie film, the film ran through a 
> developer, and then was projected onto a large screen.  I don't know what the 
> delay for film processing was, but it must have been 30 seconds or so.
> 
> Jon
> 

[cctalk] Re: Bendix G-15 Restoration

[Wayne S via cctalk]

There was another list member that undertook the same project starting about 2 
years ago. He posted regular updates for awhile then stopped. Sorry,  but i 
don’t remember his name but his posts would be archived.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 5, 2022, at 20:00, Jon Elson via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> On 10/5/22 16:14, Stephen Buck via cctalk wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> I wanted to let the group know about a Bendix G-15 Restoration project I 
>> just launched:
>> https://headspinlabs.wordpress.com/bendix-g-15-restoration/
>> It's a pretty intimidating restoration (do no harm and all), so I'm reaching 
>> out to related sources, such as this group, for any suggestions or interest.
> 
> WOW!  I worked on one in 1973 or so, but it had dust get in and wreck the 
> drum surface.
> 
> Certainly an ambitious project, and even their schematics are QUITE 
> unfamiliar looking.
> 
> Jon
> 

[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware

[Wayne S via cctalk]

A local machine shop or even a college machine shop could knock out 10 of those 
in an hour probably in steel. It’s worth investigating i think.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 11, 2022, at 11:17, Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 10/11/2022 10:48 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote:
>> If someone wants to provide me with a drawing, I'd be happy to design a 3D 
>> model of the part and print a few of them for testing.
> 
> Here's a pointer to mine:
> https://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/cad/3d.php
> https://svn.so-much-stuff.com/svn/trunk/3D/8AClip/8aClip.jpg
> 
> The two holes in the base take screws to mount to the rack.  Depending on 
> left vs right, you would drill and tap the indentations on one side or the 
> other.
> 
> I could swear there was a recent (in the last year) conversation with Michael 
> Thompson and others about this on VCForum, but it must have been before the 
> VCForum site moved, as the search tool didn't find it.
> 
> Anyway, the original is bent bar stock, with notching near the apex, and a 
> nut press-fit/spot welded where I've drawn an indent.  I've drawn it as a 
> triangular plastic block in an effort to make it more structural.
> 
> A recessed screw in the KC8-A screws into the nut from the bottom to attach 
> the panel on each side.
> 
>Vince

[cctalk] Re: PDP 8a front panel hardware

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Definitely! Easy-peasey.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 11, 2022, at 12:28, Tony Duell  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 8:23 PM Wayne S via cctalk
>  wrote:
>> 
>> A local machine shop or even a college machine shop could knock out 10 of 
>> those in an hour probably in steel. It’s worth investigating i think.
> 
> I reckon you could make a couple (i.e. what you need for one machine)
> from steel or brass in an hour using only hand tools. The only things
> you'd need that are not in every reasonable toolkit are a 6-32 UNC tap
> and whatever the correct tapping drill is for that.
> 
> -tony

[cctalk] Re: 8" floppy diskettes themselves (was: 8" floppy diskette storage cases)

[Wayne S via cctalk]

I’ve used a floppies a lot over the years and only real failures i’ve seen are 
with the case or jacket being cracked or otherwise broken torn. Had a lot of 3 
1/2 floppies that wouldn’t write but a reformat fixed that. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 14, 2022, at 15:26, Sellam Abraham via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> In my experience, floppy disks prove to be very resilient with the specific
> exception of late 1990s 3.5" floppies, which tend to fail readily.
> 
> Sellam
> 
>> On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 3:24 PM John Herron via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Just curious but how does one predict if floppys will be good when buying
>> old media? Is it just a crap shoop at this point?
>> 

[cctalk] Re: RDI BriteLite IPX keeps going to white screen

[Wayne S via cctalk]

This usually means the timer of the pulse width modulation circuit is changing. 
If it’s an RC type circuit, probably the resistor is heating up and changing 
value. If it’s a ic that controls the PWM then check out the IC and the 
components that connect to the control pin.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 29, 2022, at 03:48, Peter Coghlan via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> I've been trying to do a little work on the RDI BriteLite IPX I have here, 
>> but
>> when it runs more than a few minutes the LCD just blanks out white. The 
>> machine
>> seems to still respond to commands, so it seems like it's something with the
>> display hardware. Even powered off and back on it won't go back to normal 
>> until
>> I let it sit for awhile.
>> 
>> I suspect heat is part of the issue and it certainly feels warm; there are 
>> two
>> loud cooling fans inside, but with the case off and checking airflow the fans
>> do seem to be working. Having the case off doesn't make the display any 
>> happier
>> though. One fan is in the power supply and another fan is in the (LCD?)
>> inverter board. Finger-checking large chips while in operation doesn't burn 
>> the
>> skin.
>> 
> 
> At one time it used to be possible to buy aerosol cans of "freezer" which were
> supposed to help trace faults like this in televisions etc.  Maybe it is still
> available?  I have read tales of success using it however I don't ever recall
> it being any help to me.  It may be that I didn't have any of the right sort
> of faults.
> 
> Regards,
> Peter Coghlan.
> 
>> 
>> Anyone familiar with this issue? I suppose I could look for a SPARCstation 
>> IPX
>> to take the motherboard out of and replace this one with it, but it seems 
>> more
>> like the problem is in the display, which is a custom part.
>> 
>> -- 
>>  personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ 
>> --
>>  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
>> -- Fish will never understand fear of deep water. -- Tanner Greer 
>> -
>> 

[cctalk] Re: RDI BriteLite IPX keeps going to white screen

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Is there any kind of brightness control? Does it work at all when the screen 
goes white?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 29, 2022, at 12:56, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> This usually means the timer of the pulse width modulation circuit is 
>> changing. 
>> If it’s an RC type circuit, probably the resistor is heating up and changing 
>> value. If it’s a ic that controls the PWM then check out the IC and the 
>> components that connect to the control pin.
> 
> That's an interesting thought. It's almost certainly an IC, though I don't 
> know
> the details of the panel (though it looks like it's off-the-shelf, not
> RDI-custom). I suppose I could start with what's in the cooling airflow zone.
> My worry is if I found the marginal part(s) I'm not sure how I could easily 
> fix
> it (with my luck it won't be a discrete part).
> 
> -- 
>  personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ 
> --
>  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
> -- A penny saved is stupid. 
> ---
> 

[cctalk] Re: 14 DZ11's for sale/whatever

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Can i post your this info to the cccmp discord? I’m sure you’ll get a few 
tesponses.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 29, 2022, at 11:37, Tony Duell via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 6:14 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk
>  wrote:
>> 
>> Being lazy admittedly but can these be used for single serial interfacing?
> 
> They will not emulate a DL11 or any similar single serial port.
> 
> You don't have to use all 8 ports on the DZ11 card but you still need
> the right software driver.
> 
> That said,it would be a pity to scrap these. Surely all Unibus cards
> are getting hard to find now.
> 
> -tony
> 
> 
> 
>> Bill
>> 
>>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2022, 11:01 AM Chris Zach via cctalk 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have a box here of 14 DZ11 Unibus 8 line serial port interfaces. And I
>>> have no clue why I have them.
>>> 
>>> Anyone need some? Otherwise I'll Ebay/recycle them.
>>> 
>>> CZ
>>> 

[cctalk] Re: RDI BriteLite IPX keeps going to white screen

[Wayne S via cctalk]

One thought is that the brightness control might be heating up and changing 
value. You can check the controls easily with a ohm meter. Check ohms across 
the control when cold, disconnect ohm meter and plug in the machine until it 
goes white. Then disconnect and measure across the control again. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 29, 2022, at 13:05, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> Is there any kind of brightness control? Does it work at all when the screen 
>> goes white?
> 
> There are brightness and contrast controls, but they don't seem to do anything
> even when the screen is working properly. (Note that this could simply be an
> issue with the physical controls themselves rather than the display
> controller.) Likewise, when the screen goes white, turning down the brightness
> (or upping the contrast) does nothing; the screen remains blank bright white.
> The CCFL backlight is unchanged and fully illuminated.
> 
> -- 
>  personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ 
> --
>  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
> -- I thought his Markov chain needed oiling. -- Mark J. Blair 
> -
> 

[cctalk] Re: RDI BriteLite IPX keeps going to white screen

[Wayne S via cctalk]

The value of the control might be marked on the board too so you could use that 
as a guide. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 29, 2022, at 13:15, Wayne S  wrote:
> 
> One thought is that the brightness control might be heating up and changing 
> value. You can check the controls easily with a ohm meter. Check ohms across 
> the control when cold, disconnect ohm meter and plug in the machine until it 
> goes white. Then disconnect and measure across the control again. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 29, 2022, at 13:05, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Is there any kind of brightness control? Does it work at all when the 
>>> screen goes white?
>> 
>> There are brightness and contrast controls, but they don't seem to do 
>> anything
>> even when the screen is working properly. (Note that this could simply be an
>> issue with the physical controls themselves rather than the display
>> controller.) Likewise, when the screen goes white, turning down the 
>> brightness
>> (or upping the contrast) does nothing; the screen remains blank bright white.
>> The CCFL backlight is unchanged and fully illuminated.
>> 
>> -- 
>>  personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ 
>> --
>> Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
>> -- I thought his Markov chain needed oiling. -- Mark J. Blair 
>> -
>> 

[cctalk] Re: 14 DZ11's for sale/whatever

[Wayne S via cctalk]

The difference between dz and dh interfaces is that the dh used dma instead of 
interrupts to get characters to the cpu. It would be transparent to any 
software.
I did a write up on them 40 years ago justifying the replacement of a dz with 
dh saying that decreasing interrupts would increase performance on my VAX 780. 
It did, but just a bit. To make a big difference, you’d have to have a LOT of 
people banging away on serial terminals and  rs-232 connected printers.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 30, 2022, at 09:22, Jay Jaeger via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> For an awful lot of software, holding a line until there is an end of line 
> is not practical. Text editors in particular simply won’t work that way. The 
> UNIX shell wouldn’t work in that environment either.  So this character by 
> character interrupt is pretty standard.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 29, 2022, at 8:02 PM, Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> The performance of the DZ11 is not good.  It did an interrupt for every 
>> character, just like a DL11. The Able DMAXes blocked until a carriage return 
>> and then did a DNA, IIRC.
>> 
>> Not sure about the DH and DHV11 - its been a long time.  We used Able DMAXes 
>> on the Canadian NAPLPS system, named Telidon, but that was back in the 
>> 1200/300 baud days!
>> 
>> However for vintage computer purposes, that's probably not a concern.
>> 
>> cheers,
>> 
>> Nigel
>> 
>> Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
>> Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
>> Skype:  TILBURY2591
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2022-10-29 14:37, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
 On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 6:14 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk
   wrote:
 Being lazy admittedly but can these be used for single serial interfacing?
>>> They will not emulate a DL11 or any similar single serial port.
>>> 
>>> You don't have to use all 8 ports on the DZ11 card but you still need
>>> the right software driver.
>>> 
>>> That said,it would be a pity to scrap these. Surely all Unibus cards
>>> are getting hard to find now.
>>> 
>>> -tony
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 Bill
 
 On Sat, Oct 29, 2022, 11:01 AM Chris Zach via cctalk
 wrote:
 
> I have a box here of 14 DZ11 Unibus 8 line serial port interfaces. And I
> have no clue why I have them.
> 
> Anyone need some? Otherwise I'll Ebay/recycle them.
> 
> CZ
> 

[cctalk] Re: 14 DZ11's for sale/whatever

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Hi Paul. Who “corrected” you about DMA input? I’d like to read about that as 
nothing i read about the DZ mentioned that. Got any Cites?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 1, 2022, at 09:01, Paul Koning via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 30, 2022, at 2:49 PM, Wayne S via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> The difference between dz and dh interfaces is that the dh used dma instead 
>> of interrupts to get characters to the cpu. It would be transparent to any 
>> software.
> 
> No, it doesn't.  I was confused about this but was recently corrected.
> 
> The DH11 does DMA output, but not DMA input.  I don't know any DEC serial 
> port devices that have DMA input; it would make very little sense to do that 
> since input generally is one character at a time.  Block mode terminals do 
> exist in DEC's world but they are rare, and even those are hard to operate 
> with simple DMA.
> 
> DZ is programmed I/O in both directions, which makes the difference.  In 
> typical usage, the bulk of the terminal traffic is output, so doing that with 
> DMA is a big win.
> 
>paul
> 
> 

[cctalk] Re: 14 DZ11's for sale/whatever

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 1, 2022, at 10:01, Wayne S  wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul. Who “corrected” you about DMA input? I’d like to read about that as 
> nothing i read about the DZ mentioned that. Got any Cites?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 1, 2022, at 09:01, Paul Koning via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> On Oct 30, 2022, at 2:49 PM, Wayne S via cctalk  
>>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The difference between dz and dh interfaces is that the dh used dma instead 
>>> of interrupts to get characters to the cpu. It would be transparent to any 
>>> software.
>> 
>> No, it doesn't.  I was confused about this but was recently corrected.
>> 
>> The DH11 does DMA output, but not DMA input.  I don't know any DEC serial 
>> port devices that have DMA input; it would make very little sense to do that 
>> since input generally is one character at a time.  Block mode terminals do 
>> exist in DEC's world but they are rare, and even those are hard to operate 
>> with simple DMA.
>> 
>> DZ is programmed I/O in both directions, which makes the difference.  In 
>> typical usage, the bulk of the terminal traffic is output, so doing that 
>> with DMA is a big win.
>> 
>>   paul
>> 
Also, can you define what the phrase “programmed io” refers?
AFAIK, pretty much everything does that, so a clarification would help.

>> 

[cctalk] Re: 14 DZ11's for sale/whatever

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Paul said “But the DZ doesn't do DMA.” 
I apologize. I used DZ in responses when i meant DH. 
  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 1, 2022, at 11:56, Paul Koning via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 1, 2022, at 2:32 PM, ben via cctalk  wrote:
>> 
>> On 2022-11-01 11:20 a.m., Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>> tents.  The result is that the OS only has to deal with the device every 30 
>> characters or so (RSTS case) or even less often if the buffer size is larger.
>>> Consider disk for another example.  With very rare exceptions, disks do 
>>> DMA: the OS points to the place where the data lives, supplies a transfer 
>>> length and starting disk position, and says "go do it and tell me when it's 
>>> finished".  Newer devices like the MSCP controllers support a queue of 
>>> requests, but even simple devices like the RK05 will do a full transfer 
>>> without CPU involvement.
>> How mqny old systems required partial transfer for disk io, for swapping 
>> overlays in and out?
> 
> Arbitrary size reads are common; as you said overlay loads require that.  
> Partial block writes are not so common.  In RSTS, the base OS write operation 
> does not allow that.  But I found out early that RT11 does, and depends on 
> it.  In RT11, if you do a partial block write, the rule is that the rest of 
> the block is zero-filled.  In some disks the controller takes care of that.  
> In the RF11, the driver does because the device does any word count, so the 
> driver sets up a separate transfer for the rest of the block using a word 
> containing zero as the source buffer, and "inhibit bus address increment" set 
> so all the DMA cycles use that same word.  In the RC11, the sector size is 64 
> bytes, so the device zero-fills to the end of the sector but the driver has 
> to do the same sort of stuff as the RF11 driver if there are any additional 
> 64-byte sectors left before the 512-byte block boundary.
> 
> It turns out RT11 Fortran depends on this, though I don't remember the 
> details.
> 
>paul
> 

[cctalk] Re: 14 DZ11's for sale/whatever

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Just to clarify, my surmising was in response to “ The DH11 does DMA output, 
but not DMA input. ” in one of the earlier messages.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 1, 2022, at 12:03, Wayne S  wrote:
> 
> Paul said “But the DZ doesn't do DMA.” 
> I apologize. I used DZ in responses when i meant DH. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 1, 2022, at 11:56, Paul Koning via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
 On Nov 1, 2022, at 2:32 PM, ben via cctalk  wrote:
>>> 
 On 2022-11-01 11:20 a.m., Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>>> tents.  The result is that the OS only has to deal with the device every 30 
>>> characters or so (RSTS case) or even less often if the buffer size is 
>>> larger.
 Consider disk for another example.  With very rare exceptions, disks do 
 DMA: the OS points to the place where the data lives, supplies a transfer 
 length and starting disk position, and says "go do it and tell me when 
 it's finished".  Newer devices like the MSCP controllers support a queue 
 of requests, but even simple devices like the RK05 will do a full transfer 
 without CPU involvement.
>>> How mqny old systems required partial transfer for disk io, for swapping 
>>> overlays in and out?
>> 
>> Arbitrary size reads are common; as you said overlay loads require that.  
>> Partial block writes are not so common.  In RSTS, the base OS write 
>> operation does not allow that.  But I found out early that RT11 does, and 
>> depends on it.  In RT11, if you do a partial block write, the rule is that 
>> the rest of the block is zero-filled.  In some disks the controller takes 
>> care of that.  In the RF11, the driver does because the device does any word 
>> count, so the driver sets up a separate transfer for the rest of the block 
>> using a word containing zero as the source buffer, and "inhibit bus address 
>> increment" set so all the DMA cycles use that same word.  In the RC11, the 
>> sector size is 64 bytes, so the device zero-fills to the end of the sector 
>> but the driver has to do the same sort of stuff as the RF11 driver if there 
>> are any additional 64-byte sectors left before the 512-byte block boundary.
>> 
>> It turns out RT11 Fortran depends on this, though I don't remember the 
>> details.
>> 
>>   paul
>> 

[cctalk] Re: Exabyte recovery

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Zane, what is the problem you’ve experienced with 8MM tapes? I have a lot of 
home video 8MM that I’ve not converted to Dvd yet and was wondering if the 
issue was related to tape deterioration or more to the drive mechanism.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 10, 2022, at 11:50, Zane Healy via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> As a reminder, since I’ve seen at least 3 different drives mentioned in this 
> thread.  Not all drives can read all tapes.
> 
> Given the age, I’d recommend someone that does this professionally (and I 
> believe that includes Chuck).  I’ve worked with computer tapes for something 
> like 40 years, and I try to avoid 8mm tapes, though I prefer them to 4mm 
> tapes.
> 
> Zane
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 10, 2022, at 10:18 AM, Chris Zach via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Indeed. I have a Cybernetics 8505 in the shed, I was just looking at it and 
>> wondering if it still worked.
>> 
>> What tends to go on these things? Rubber in there, capstains, etc?
>> 
>> C
>> 
>>> On 11/10/2022 10:45 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
>>> On 11/9/22 20:52, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:
 I have a few old exabyte tapes of possible historic value. Who can I pay to
 get them recovered that has the best chance of success?
 
>>> Very difficult.  We were a big user of Exabyte drives for processing of 
>>> physics experimental data.  Our experience is Exabyte drives had a lifetime 
>>> of 1-2 years, no matter if they were powered on, in heavy use or just 
>>> parked on a shelf.  Back in the day, we found outfits that would refurbish 
>>> and test the drives for a modest cost, but I assume they are not doing that 
>>> now.
>>> I do have an 8200 drive here, but I have great doubts that it would work.
>>> Jon
> 

[cctalk] Re: Inline Serial Device?

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Black box may have something. They had something similar where you could call 
in via phone and activate a switch to reboot a computer.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 11, 2022, at 13:40, Fred Cisin via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Or even cheaper, a dumpstered/e-waste PC
> 
>> On Fri, 11 Nov 2022, Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk wrote:
>> 
>> Or even cheaper, and Arduino uno
>> 
>> cheers,
>> 
>> Nigel
>> 
>> 
>> Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
>> Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
>> Skype:  TILBURY2591
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2022-11-11 16:24, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
>>> not that it's easy but a raspberry pi could be set up to watch the serial
>>> line.
>>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 4:16 PM W2HX via cctalk
>>> wrote:
 Hello all,
 I am looking for a device that sits transparently in an RS-232 serial line
 and upon seeing a particular code go over the serial line ((or sequence of
 codes) will actual a relay (or a transistor). Something with two DB25s or
 DE9s and is configurable to what code will trigger the output? Some kind of
 box?
 Does anyone know of such a thing? I guess it could be cobbled up with a
 microcontroller, but hoping to just get something "off the shelf."
 Thank you
 73 Eugene W2HX
 Subscribe to my Youtube Channel:https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx

[cctalk] Re: Inline Serial Device?

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Something like this…

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Box-Corporation-Modified-SWED98174-Cos-II-Code-Operated-Serial-Switcher-/165759564735?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 11, 2022, at 14:00, Fred Cisin via cctalk  wrote:

On Fri, 11 Nov 2022, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
I keep a big jar around that's full of blue- and black pill MCU boards,
as well as a few of the more capable STM32F4 and F7 boards.Nowadays,
everything seems to look like a job for an MCU.


The MCU has replaced the hammer!
. . . "To a man with a HAMMER|(big jar of blue and black pill MCUs), everything 
looks like a NAIL|(job for an MCU)"

[cctalk] Re: PT-68K

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Circuitcellar magazine is still around. I think Steve sold it a while ago then 
bought it back just a few years ago. Try contacting him at 
https://circuitcellar.com

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 28, 2022, at 14:07, Will Cooke via cctalk  wrote:

Yeah, I know it's just one page of one article of a series of them. The rest 
are in the pages of Byte, which are on the same web site. There is also a story 
about it on the web, written by Steve. With the name and date from that one 
page, a quick search turns up lots of stuff.

On 12/28/2022 4:02 PM CST Chris via cctalk  wrote:


That's only page 1 lol.

Artwork for the board/s never was published as I recall. I wonder if he still 
has it.
On Wednesday, December 28, 2022, 04:58:34 PM EST, Will Cooke via cctalk 
 wrote:



On 12/28/2022 3:36 PM CST Chris via cctalk  wrote:


What was the name of Steve Ciarcia's outfit, Micromint? I see no entries for 
that. That bizarro-world IBM compatible he offered years ago is insane enough 
to love. Want to build me one.
His company was Micromint. The computer was the MPX-16

https://worldradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Consumer/Archive-Byte-IDX/IDX/80s/82-83/Byte-1982-12-OCR-Page-0044.pdf

I do not think you can name many great inventions that have been made by 
married men. Nikola Tesla

[cctalk] Re: loading vt220 fonts

[Wayne S via cctalk]

You want to look at this manual. 
https://vt100.net/docs/vt220-rm
Vt100 doesn't support soft char sets but vt220 on does.


Wayne


> On Jan 5, 2023, at 10:46 PM, David Griffith via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm trying to figure out how to created and load a "soft character set" into 
> a vt220 terminal.  These documents: 
> https://vt100.net/shuford/terminal/dec_vt220_codes.txt, and 
> https://vt100.net/docs/vt510-rm/DECDLD.html, seem to talk about how to do it, 
> but I don't follow this well.  I'm guessing the fonts are made up of escape 
> sequences.  Then I guess they are loaded by simply printing them to the 
> terminal.  If that's the case, where are the examples of such sequences?
> 
> Playing around with vttest, there's an option to "Test Soft Character Sets" 
> in the "VT220 Tests" menu.  But I get the error message "You did not specify 
> a font-file with the -f option".  Where can I find examples of that file?
> 
> Putting these together, I'm guessing what vttest wants is a file containing 
> sequences described in those two documents.  So, where do I go from here?
> 
> 
> -- 
> David Griffith
> d...@661.org
> 
> A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> A: Top-posting.
> Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

[cctalk] Re: DEC LINC Eight auction

[Wayne S via cctalk]

It says “shipping available” on the ad. I’ve had a lot of experience with hibid 
sellers and when  they say shipping available it either means they will package 
and ship themselves or drop it off at the ups store and let ups contact you for 
payment. When i bid I usually write need shipping to wherever in the comments 
field. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 10, 2023, at 12:19, Mike Katz via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> Where did you see them offering shipping?
> 
> All I could see was a paragraph stating that anything not picked up at the 
> designated time would be consider abandoned and charged to your credit card 
> anyway.
> 
>> On 1/10/2023 11:36 AM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote:
>> Absolutely gorgeous!Ed#
>> 
>> Sent from the all new AOL app for Android
>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 10:01 AM, steve shumaker via 
>> cctalk wrote:   Popped up in a search:   A DEC LINC 
>> Eight up for auction in Friedens, PA.
>> 
>> https://hibid.com/lot/143159802/digital-equipment-corp-linc-eight-vintage
>> Currently has a single bid for $1.00  They are even offering shipping!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Visually looks to be in excellent shape
>> 
>> https://cdn.hibid.com/img.axd?id=7750162854&wid=&rwl=false&p=&ext=&w=0&h=0&t=&lp=&c=true&wt=false&sz=MAX&checksum=dXJczRVCwWW3aM2jOohA14P%2ful8pCw%2bs
>> 
>> 
>> Steve
>>   
> 

[cctalk] Re: DEC LINC Eight auction

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Yep. But they offer to do the legwork for you so there’s that.
The Linc machine would cost a bit but the box of linc tapes not too much.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 10, 2023, at 12:54, Bill Degnan via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Totally, but to have a LINC shipped would be quite a project, expensive
> 
>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 3:39 PM Wayne S via cctalk 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> It says “shipping available” on the ad. I’ve had a lot of experience with
>> hibid sellers and when  they say shipping available it either means they
>> will package and ship themselves or drop it off at the ups store and let
>> ups contact you for payment. When i bid I usually write need shipping to
>> wherever in the comments field.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jan 10, 2023, at 12:19, Mike Katz via cctalk 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Where did you see them offering shipping?
>>> 
>>> All I could see was a paragraph stating that anything not picked up at
>> the designated time would be consider abandoned and charged to your credit
>> card anyway.
>>> 
>>>> On 1/10/2023 11:36 AM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote:
>>>> Absolutely gorgeous!Ed#
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from the all new AOL app for Android
>>>>On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 10:01 AM, steve shumaker via cctalk<
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:   Popped up in a search:   A DEC LINC Eight
>> up for auction in Friedens, PA.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> https://hibid.com/lot/143159802/digital-equipment-corp-linc-eight-vintage
>>>> Currently has a single bid for $1.00  They are even offering
>> shipping!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Visually looks to be in excellent shape
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> https://cdn.hibid.com/img.axd?id=7750162854&wid=&rwl=false&p=&ext=&w=0&h=0&t=&lp=&c=true&wt=false&sz=MAX&checksum=dXJczRVCwWW3aM2jOohA14P%2ful8pCw%2bs
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Steve
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 

[cctalk] Re: DEC LINC Eight auction

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Also a box of linctape from the same auction

https://hibid.com/lot/143159860/box-of-linctape-digital?ref=catalog


Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 10, 2023, at 09:36, ED SHARPE via cctalk  wrote:

Absolutely gorgeous!Ed#

Sent from the all new AOL app for Android

 On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 10:01 AM, steve shumaker via 
cctalk wrote:   Popped up in a search:   A DEC LINC 
Eight up for auction in Friedens, PA.

https://hibid.com/lot/143159802/digital-equipment-corp-linc-eight-vintage
Currently has a single bid for $1.00  They are even offering shipping!



Visually looks to be in excellent shape

https://cdn.hibid.com/img.axd?id=7750162854&wid=&rwl=false&p=&ext=&w=0&h=0&t=&lp=&c=true&wt=false&sz=MAX&checksum=dXJczRVCwWW3aM2jOohA14P%2ful8pCw%2bs


Steve

[cctalk] Re: long lived media (Was: Damage to CD-R from CD Sleeve

[Wayne S via cctalk]

A take (mine) on the backup/archiving problem is that any medium that is used 
for this purpose will eventually be rendered obsolete and possibly unusable 
without going to extreme measures. My solution is to use whatever (economical) 
hard disk device has the most capacity and store stuff there along with some 
metadata where possible for about 6 years and then upgrade to something new. In 
this case, because hard disk capacity is still growing, replacing 1 TB disks 
with 4 Tb in a triple mirror raid. I use a synology 4 disk bay with 4 tb disks 
that is configured as 4 mirrors. In 6 years or so i’ll upgrade to something 
like that that’s newer with bigger drives like 8 - 12 TB (might be bigger, but 
depends upon cost) . This is the best solution, both affordable and redundant 
that i currently can come up with.
I think computers will continue to use disks( and thus be supported) for the 
rest of my lifetime so I’m reasonably happy.



Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 17, 2023, at 08:57, Chris via cctalk  wrote:
> 
>  The bottom line is you have to dispense with the fantasy that any media 
> will reliably keep data for really any length of time. You must habe 
> resundancy. You could go the optical route, but even witj redundancy I don't 
> recommend it. If it's a small amount of data, maybe it's not such a bad idea, 
> you can have 3 or more copies. But backing up a lot of stuff will be very 
> laborious. And likely won't save money as compared to magnetic disks.
> 
> I'm done with the sargasso sea of cables. I bought 2 3tb 2.5" usb drives (and 
> all my data may be bigger then 4tb). I'm scaling down everything.  

[cctalk] Re: long lived media (Was: Damage to CD-R from CD Sleeve

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Yeah, but can you read them?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 17, 2023, at 10:32, Sellam Abraham via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 8:57 AM Chris via cctalk 
> wrote:
> 
>> The bottom line is you have to dispense with the fantasy that any media
>> will reliably keep data for really any length of time.
> 
> 
> I don't know, man.  Those stone walls with carvings in them have carried
> data forward so far for centuries, practically aeons.
> 
> Sellam

[cctalk] Re: [SPAM] LINC-8 sells for $2,150

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Another forum said a museum
 in Pa won it.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 17, 2023, at 17:55, Tony Jones via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 5:52 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
>> That bwas a good price I think.
>> 
> 
> Yes, just imagine all the cool things you could do with it :-)

[cctalk] Re: Restoring floppy disk images to their rightful media

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Maybe go another way and use one of those usb disk adapters to copy the hard 
disks that can be placed as second disks on the classics and floppies burned 
from there? Or maybe try to get a serial/parallel zip drive that works on the 
classics ?
If the classics support IDE, it should be easy. 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 24, 2023, at 10:23, Tony Duell via cctalk  
> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 24, 2023 at 6:16 PM Jim Brain via cctalk
>  wrote:
>> 
>> On 1/24/2023 12:12 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
>>> I've skimmed the thread about making images of floppy disks. I want to
>>> do the reverse.
>> Greaseweazle will do this.  Use the same HW setup as for imaging, but
>> instruct the GW software to write an image to physical disk.
> 
> From what I understand the Greaseweazle works by measuring the times
> between pulses on the Read Data line, So presumably for writing it
> outputs a series of pulses with the right spacing.
> 
> Does software exist to turn a disk image (as in a ,imd file) into
> suitable timing data for this?
> 
> -tony
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> --
>> Jim Brain
>> br...@jbrain.com
>> www.jbrain.com

[cctalk] Re: ZFS, was [... GreaseWeazle ..]

[Wayne S via cctalk]

I have a Synology 4-bay san that has 4 2-tb drives in a raid stripe. I backup 
to that. I do convert software cd’s and dvd to .iso and floppies to .img and 
copy the results to the san. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 2, 2023, at 07:27, Jon Elson via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> On 2/2/23 05:54, emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote:
>> On 2023-02-02 04:38, David Brownlee wrote:
>> 
>> > That reminds me (looks at 43.5T of zfs pool that has not had a scrub
>> > since 2021).
>> >
>> > It can be nice to have a filesystem which handles redundancy and also
>> > the option to occasionally read all the data, check end to end
>> > checksums (in the unlikely case a device returns a successful read
>> > with bad data), and fixup everything. Does not eliminate the need for
>> > remote copies, but gives a little extra confidence that the master
>> > copy is still what it should be :)
>> 
>> So, what else do you guys use, to make sure your data is safe for the years 
>> to come?
> 
> I do many backups on blu-ray DVD's, the theory is if they start to go bad, 
> maybe partial recovery of important files will be possible due to having many 
> copies on DVD.
> 
> This is getting a bit difficult as the amount of stuff to be backed up is 
> just a bit too big for a single blu-ray disc.
> 
> I also do much more frequent backups to a large hard drive.
> 
> Jon
> 

[cctalk] Re: Getting QRST files onto a floppy (sigh)

[Wayne S via cctalk]

“ QRST under DOSBOX on Windows10 can't properly access a floppy even if 
"mounted" with a -t floppy extension.”
 It is a dosbox thing really? 
Win 10 comes with cmd so do you need to use dosbox? 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 25, 2023, at 14:12, Chris Zach via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> So I'm working on restoring a Compaq DeskPro/XE system to allow me to use 
> the 5.25 floppy to copy files from my 3.5 floppies which will come from my 
> Windows 10 system so that I can extract on the Deskpro/XE using teledisk the 
> .td0 files that make up a RX50 floppy disk set so I can load POS 3.2 on my 
> Pro/380 and see if the DECNA card works.
> 
> What a pain in the rear.
> 
> So far the XE boots but has no setup. Setup requires a special floppy 
> (Diagnostic disk) which mine was bad after 30 years so I'm trying to create a 
> new one. I have the official Compaq disk creation thing for a floppy but it's 
> in QRST format and the QRST under DOSBOX on Windows10 can't properly access a 
> floppy even if "mounted" with a -t floppy extension.
> 
> Before I drag out my rusty and trusty Windows 95 Toshiba 660AV laptop, is 
> there another way to get this onto a floppy? I have an endless supply of 
> Rpi's, and doing a DD from a .img file works fine but this of course is a 
> QRST file.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> CZ
> 

[cctalk] Re: Getting QRST files onto a floppy (sigh)

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Also you might just create a dos 6 bootable floppy and boos dos from the “A” 
drive. Would thst work?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 25, 2023, at 15:17, Wayne S  wrote:
> 
> “ QRST under DOSBOX on Windows10 can't properly access a floppy even if 
> "mounted" with a -t floppy extension.”
> It is a dosbox thing really? 
> Win 10 comes with cmd so do you need to use dosbox? 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 25, 2023, at 14:12, Chris Zach via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> So I'm working on restoring a Compaq DeskPro/XE system to allow me to use 
>> the 5.25 floppy to copy files from my 3.5 floppies which will come from my 
>> Windows 10 system so that I can extract on the Deskpro/XE using teledisk the 
>> .td0 files that make up a RX50 floppy disk set so I can load POS 3.2 on my 
>> Pro/380 and see if the DECNA card works.
>> 
>> What a pain in the rear.
>> 
>> So far the XE boots but has no setup. Setup requires a special floppy 
>> (Diagnostic disk) which mine was bad after 30 years so I'm trying to create 
>> a new one. I have the official Compaq disk creation thing for a floppy but 
>> it's in QRST format and the QRST under DOSBOX on Windows10 can't properly 
>> access a floppy even if "mounted" with a -t floppy extension.
>> 
>> Before I drag out my rusty and trusty Windows 95 Toshiba 660AV laptop, is 
>> there another way to get this onto a floppy? I have an endless supply of 
>> Rpi's, and doing a DD from a .img file works fine but this of course is a 
>> QRST file.
>> 
>> Thoughts?
>> 
>> CZ
>> 

[cctalk] Re: Getting QRST files onto a floppy (sigh)

[Wayne S via cctalk]

I read that Qrst was just a file format. To quote The QRST disc image format 
was used by Compaq to distribute disk images of diagnostic software. The file 
QRST.EXE or QRST5.EXE would be supplied with the disc images to write them to a 
floppy drive.
-So do you have the QRST programs available?

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 25, 2023, at 15:34, Chris Zach  wrote:


Win 10 comes with cmd so do you need to use dosbox?

Windows 10 does not have a 16 bit subsystem anymore. Doesn't work.

As for creating a DOS bootable disk, I think the problem is that the low level 
disk access QRST wants is not availible on a USB floppy drive. So you need a 
"real" floppy and controller to make it work.

Anyone want to do me a favor, run it, and email me an .img version of the 
resulting floppy?

I'd use my Toshiba 660av, but I just checked and the power adapter is missing. 
Yep.

CZ

[cctalk] Re: Getting QRST files onto a floppy (sigh)

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Yep. I can probably burn a floppy for you if you put the programs and data 
software somewhere i can get to it. I’ll try and then you can tell me where to 
send the floppies. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 25, 2023, at 16:17, Chris Zach via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> I read that Qrst was just a file format. To quote The QRST disc image format 
>> was used by Compaq to distribute disk images of diagnostic software. The 
>> file QRST.EXE or QRST5.EXE would be supplied with the disc images to write 
>> them to a floppy drive.
>> -So do you have the QRST programs available?
> 
> Yes. However the QRST program is a 16 bit app that requires physical access 
> to a real floppy controller. Thus it cannot work on a Windows 10 system with 
> DOSBOX as the floppy is USB and I don't think DOSBOX emulates a true floppy 
> interface at the BIOS level.
> 
> Modern archive tools like 7zip do not appear to have support for QRST format. 
> It's compressed in some odd way, so it can't just be dd'ed to a floppy sector 
> by sector.
> 
> Never dull.
> CZ

[cctalk] Re: Getting QRST files onto a floppy (sigh)

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Btw… here’s the link to the Qrst info… 
http://fileformats.archiveteam.org/wiki/Quick_Release_Sector_Transfer


Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 25, 2023, at 16:23, Wayne S  wrote:

Yep. I can probably burn a floppy for you if you put the programs and data 
software somewhere i can get to it. I’ll try and then you can tell me where to 
send the floppies.

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 25, 2023, at 16:17, Chris Zach via cctalk  wrote:



I read that Qrst was just a file format. To quote The QRST disc image format 
was used by Compaq to distribute disk images of diagnostic software. The file 
QRST.EXE or QRST5.EXE would be supplied with the disc images to write them to a 
floppy drive.
-So do you have the QRST programs available?

Yes. However the QRST program is a 16 bit app that requires physical access to 
a real floppy controller. Thus it cannot work on a Windows 10 system with 
DOSBOX as the floppy is USB and I don't think DOSBOX emulates a true floppy 
interface at the BIOS level.

Modern archive tools like 7zip do not appear to have support for QRST format. 
It's compressed in some odd way, so it can't just be dd'ed to a floppy sector 
by sector.

Never dull.
CZ

[cctalk] Re: Getting QRST files onto a floppy (sigh)

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Since, allowing for snail mail, it will probably be a week, i have a question. 
Can you run the qrst.exe program at all? Was thinking that it might be possible 
to extract the image to hard disk then use an image burning prog to write to 
the floppy eith needing 16 bit drivers.

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 25, 2023, at 16:24, Wayne S  wrote:

 Btw… here’s the link to the Qrst info… 
http://fileformats.archiveteam.org/wiki/Quick_Release_Sector_Transfer


Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 25, 2023, at 16:23, Wayne S  wrote:

Yep. I can probably burn a floppy for you if you put the programs and data 
software somewhere i can get to it. I’ll try and then you can tell me where to 
send the floppies.

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 25, 2023, at 16:17, Chris Zach via cctalk  wrote:



I read that Qrst was just a file format. To quote The QRST disc image format 
was used by Compaq to distribute disk images of diagnostic software. The file 
QRST.EXE or QRST5.EXE would be supplied with the disc images to write them to a 
floppy drive.
-So do you have the QRST programs available?

Yes. However the QRST program is a 16 bit app that requires physical access to 
a real floppy controller. Thus it cannot work on a Windows 10 system with 
DOSBOX as the floppy is USB and I don't think DOSBOX emulates a true floppy 
interface at the BIOS level.

Modern archive tools like 7zip do not appear to have support for QRST format. 
It's compressed in some odd way, so it can't just be dd'ed to a floppy sector 
by sector.

Never dull.
CZ

[cctalk] Re: Getting QRST files onto a floppy (sigh)

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Your troubles with USB floppy drives reinforces my own experiences. They seem 
to work okay in windows using a Microsoft written utility but not too well in 
dos or user written programs. It’s hit or miss as to if the program will see 
the usb floppy. However, using a builtin floppy always seems to work. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 26, 2023, at 12:17, Chris Zach via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Henry!
> 
>>   You wanted a SETUP disk for a Deskpro/XE system, right?  Like SP1363
>>   as listed here https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=76542
>>    ?  I was able to do
>>   this in Dosbox-X no problem: mount the local directory with
>>   sp1363.exe as C: or whatever, attach a disk image to A:, and then
>>   let sp1363.exe create the disk image on A: .  You can then write the
>>   raw disk image to a 1.44" floppy.
> 
> Interesting. I was using DOSBOX, not DOSBOX-X. I tried downloading it, set 
> the A: drive to be the USB a: drive, and it doesn't work. This time it bombs 
> out with QRST transfer incomplete.
> 
> So I restarted, copied one of the diagnostic floppy images I did have to a 
> filename of xe.img, mounted it in dosbox-x with the imgmount a (filename) 
> command, then ran QRST and it seems to have worked.
> 
> So if you try to use a USB floppy it can't see it, but if you use an image 
> file it can. I wonder if Dosbox sees the external floppy as a SCSI device, 
> but when you do an imgmount it knows to use the real, crappy DMA based 
> routines to access the image file.
> 
> Off to copy the image file to the pi, then to the USB floppy, then maybe to 
> get the XE running. Fascinating, and thank yoU!
> 
> CZ

[cctalk] Re: Why the Floppy Disk Just Won't Die

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Thats exactly the solution.  Just keep a few floppies around so that you can 
transfer a saved image back to floppy to be read by the machine that needs it.
Personally, there was so much media manufactured that I think the machines that 
read the media will fail long before we run out of  media.

Wayne


> On Mar 9, 2023, at 10:57 PM, Christopher Zach via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> Interesting article but when goteks are 30 a pop on ebay and work on 
> something as wonky as a professional 350, I think it's time to let 5.25 
> floppies go
> 
> I'll get a teac but mainly to convert all my pdp11 floppies to images. 
> 
> Cz
> 
>> On March 9, 2023 7:00:39 PM EST, Jim Brain via cctalk 
>>  wrote:
>> https://www.wired.com/story/why-the-floppy-disk-just-wont-die/
>> 
>> Take what you want from the article, but I thought the end paragraph, noting 
>> that Tom Persky of floppydisk.com is 73 and is only planning to handle 
>> things for 5 more years.  After that, he thinks the company will not 
>> transfer to anyone.
>> 
>> Interesting thoughts there.
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> -- 
>> Jim Brain
>> br...@jbrain.com
>> www.jbrain.com
>> 

[cctalk] Re: IBM PS/2 Model 80 (8580-071) restoration

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Snip 


On Mar 9, 2023, at 10:57 PM, John Maxwell via cctalk  
wrote:

>>> On 3/9/23 10:16 AM, John Maxwell wrote:
>>> Nowhere do I see any mention of a Model 80 Reference Disk. If you 
>>> don't have one of these, you will not be able to configure the machine.
>> 
> 
> Is there a repository to where I can upload diskette images? What format is 
> in widespread use these days? I use DiskImage (Ver5) and Dave Dunfield's 
> ImageDisk (Ver1.17) - both work well. I seem to recall that DiskImage is a 
> commercial product and ImageDisk is still available for free.


Some may disagree , but i upload stuff like this to the Internet Archive.

> 
>>> ADFs were text files with descriptions of hardware addresses and the 
>>> like.
> 
>> That sounds like what I remember.
> 
>>> Not sure of what you mean by 'Rifas' in the last question. Probably an 
>>> acronym or other abbreviation of something I may know about, but 
>>> nothing comes to my foggy brain presently.
> 
>> My understanding is that RIFA is a brand of capacitor which had a model like 
>> which is notorious for failing after time and they seemed to be common in 
>> the '90s.
> 
> Not sure that IBM would use cheap *anything* in their equipment.
> 
> [snip]
> 
>> *nod*  That's what I was referring to as sticktion.
> 
> A word of warning, the "inertial rotation" procedure was great for smaller 
> drives, but you may break your arm applying this to an ESDI :-)
> 
>> I don't know the state of the bearings.  Is there anything that I can or 
>> should do for them?
> 
> Aside from dismantling the drive, not really. Just cross your fingers and 
> pray. Usually not a problem. I have an ST225 which had been powered off for 
> two decades and it came up fine in my DEC Rainbow!
> 
>>> The battery used is one of the old 6V photoflash types (cannot recall 
>>> the model, unfortunately). I have a few of them left in my collection 
>>> - just ran into them in a box (with 2 or 3 left) a few months ago. 
>>> Each still had over 6v (no load) at the terminals. No idea how long 
>>> they would last in application under load, though, even though the 
>>> Model
>>> 80 didn't use too much current to hold things in config memory.
> 
>> ACK
> 
>> My assumption is that the Model 80 has been powered off for years, if not a 
>> decade or more.  It's on the older end of a five computers I picked up from 
>> someone >who wanted them hauled away.  I'm not holding my breath that they 
>> powered the PS/2 on anytime in the last decade.  ;-)
> 
> It is my belief that these batteries should still be available from 
> somewhere. If I think of it when I get home, I'll dig out the box and relay 
> the model number. Provided that the box is still where I remember.
> 
>>> Just my $0.02 (not even sure it was worth that much). Good luck with 
>>> your 80.
> 
>> Thank you.  You're sharing things that seem familiar.  Which is appreciated 
>> because it means that my memory isn't that far out of calibration or bit rot.
> 

[cctalk] Re: Why the Floppy Disk Just Won't Die

[Wayne S via cctalk]

I’ve heard of people using electric toaster ovens for reflow work. There’s a 
few YouTube videos about it. Should work for baking tapes too. I think there 
was quite a discussion about it on cctalk a few years ago.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 11, 2023, at 11:52, John Herron via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Maybe a dumb question but would an easy bake oven be a good device or are
> they not good at holding temp control?
> 
> I thought I had heard of a few folks using those for reflow jobs, etc.
> Especially since there's not risk of using an oven you might want out of
> later.
> 
> The more I think about it though, the risk of a Fisher Price toy on
> someone's important data sounds sort of stupid. But might be a cheap home
> solution for less important data.
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 5:30 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 3/10/23 13:32, mike via cctalk wrote:
>>> Chuck can you give a few details about 'baking' disks?
>> 
>> I can tell you how I do it--an "oven" held at 58C +/- 0.5C with good air
>> circulation.  Mine is custom built, where the heat source is a 75W
>> incandescent lamp, low-speed fan and PID controller.  I've heard of some
>> folks adapting food dehydrators for the purpose.
>> 
>> I generally put stuff in for a day, then let things cool for a couple of
>> hours.
>> 

[cctalk] Re: FW: 80 Micro Aug 1980 page scan

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Have you tried the worldradiohistory.com site. They have a lot of scanned 
computer mags.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 11, 2023, at 19:27, Steve Lewis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Haven't found a physical copy yet (also been probing around on eBay).   I'm
> just looking for a high resolution scan of page 10 of the images in the
> lower half (of inside "factory").  The ones at archive.org are "grainy"
> (but it could just be a side effect of the printing in that issue, so maybe
> there is no real improvement we can obtain).
> 
> cc here if no other "cloud" option available:
> contact.steve@gmail.com
> 
> Thanks!
> Steve
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Mar 11, 2023 at 10:34 AM David Williams via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I believe I have that issue, at least it is on my list of issues in the
>> collection. Traveling at the moment but if you don't get it elsewhere
>> I'll check when I am home tomorrow.
>> 
>> David
>> 
>>> On 3/10/2023 11:48 PM, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote:
>>> Was looking for a higher resolution scan of page 10 of August 1980 issue
>> of
>>> 80 Microcomputing magazine.
>>> 
>>> The one online has some "square markings" -- and maybe that's just the
>> way
>>> it is, from the original photographs and how they got published in that
>>> issue.  But finding a physical copy might clarify.
>>> 
>>> But really after any image of a 1977-1978 inside-the-factory shot of
>> Tandy,
>>> Commodore, or Apple (mostly on the "motherboard" assembly itself).   I
>> did
>>> find one from 1982 for Commodore (German factory), and an Apple one from
>>> 1984 (Macintosh assembly), but was hoping for a pre-1980 shot.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Steve
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:01 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk <
>>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>> 
 I'm not sure what you're asking for, can you clarify?
 Bill
 
 On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:52 PM Mark Huffstutter via cctalk <
 cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
 
> Ah, I missed the physical copy part, You might have already found this
 one
> online.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Huffstutter
> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2023 8:45 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: RE: [cctalk] 80 Micro Aug 1980 page scan
> 
> Steve,
> There is a pretty good copy on archive.org
> 
> https://archive.org/details/80-microcomputing-magazine-1980-08
> 
> Regards,
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Steve Lewis via cctalk 
> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2023 8:40 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Cc: Steve Lewis 
> Subject: [cctalk] 80 Micro Aug 1980 page scan
> 
> Anyone here have a physical copy of 80 Microcomputing (TRS-80 themed)
> issue from August 1980?  There is a better quality scan of a page I'm
> trying to get.
> 
> Thanks,
> Steve
> 
 
>> 

[cctalk] Re: ATA-3 50-pin IDE

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Can you post a picture somewhere?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 26, 2023, at 13:20, Paul Berger via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I have seen lots of laptop drives that would fit a 50 pin connector that is 
> about 2mm pitch  Looking at the back of the drive from the left there are 44 
> pins in a group then 2 pins missing and the remaining 4 are for selecting 
> master and slave.
> 
> Paul.
> 
>> On 2023-03-26 4:33 p.m., Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote:
>> Is anyone familiar with the 50-pin IDE interface, which I think is called
>> ATA-3?  It is from around 1997-2002.   Normally IDE is 40-pin, or in
>> laptops might be a 44-pin.
>> 
>> But in a COMPAQ Presario 1220, I've come across its hard drive that is
>> using this 50-pin interface (two rows of 25-pin that are quite
>> small/tightly spaced - moreso than even PCMCIA).
>> 
>> I believe it is different (electrically) than the 1.8" 50-pin interface.  I
>> ordered a CF-to-50-pin adapter that is intended for those 1.8" drives, and
>> it won't work on this ATA-2 port (system won't boot with it inserted).
>> However, all my CF cards are larger than 2GB - so I'm not sure if that was
>> the issue (don't think so, I think even with 8GB or larger it would still
>> at least try to boot).
>> 
>> 
>> The 2GB drive in this Presario (with the "weird' 50-pin IDE) contains
>> Windows ME and Office 2000.  That's cute, but I'm not so interested in that
>> - I was hoping to image that drive for archive, then install something else
>> (OS2).  But I can't find any "ATA-3 to normal 40-pin IDE" adapter.
>> 
>> I think the "6 extra pins" on this 50-pin (relative to normal 44-pin laptop
>> drives of those days) -- 2 of those pins (5-6) aren't used (maybe a kind of
>> key) and the 4 others (1-4) are vendor specific.  So I may just be out of
>> luck here in upgrading or replacing this drive with a more modern
>> solution.  But wanted to run it by the crew here before giving up.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> -Steve / v*

[cctalk] Re: Schematics for Lear Siegler ADM31?

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Why don’t you post a picture of the board and see if anyone can id the resistor 
from an intact Adm31 they already own?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 17, 2023, at 09:20, John Robertson via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I've checked bitsavers.org (Al does a great job!), and a number of forums, 
> but no luck finding schematics for my ADM31 that I am trying to resurrect. 
> The power supply has issues and I need to identify a blown out resistor - the 
> switching supply is a Boschert model 1001 date code 7943 Revision J.
> 
> John :-#)#
> 
> -- 
> John's Jukes Ltd.
> 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
> Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
> flippers.com
> "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
> 

[cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Not progress just consolidation of the pc manufacturing industry. They lost 
most of their advertising last year so most of their revenue. Most print 
publications have done the same.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 21, 2023, at 19:30, Bill Degnan via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I saved a few years of that one, my favorite for a while
> B
> 
>> On Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 10:09 PM Tarek Hoteit via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Such progress should never stop. I keep buying old magazines (creative
>> computing, compute!, Byte, Omni, and more) via eBay and randomly pick one
>> to read each day. It is  always a great feeling to read the actual
>> magazines as if it were the eighties (or late seventies)
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Tarek Hoteit
>> 
>>> On Apr 21, 2023, at 6:59 PM, Murray McCullough via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I read today that “Maximum PC” is no longer in print just in digital.
>> Past
>>> issues are available in digitized format but it’s not the same as
>> reading a
>>> magazine while in bed! Our hobby is changing. Well, progress must not be
>>> stopped…
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Happy computing.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Murray  🙂
>> 

[cctalk] Re: Rainbow H7842 PSU Fault

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Spec sheet for the 7812 shows 2 versions - 4% and 2% tolerances. So the 
voltages your measuring are within the 4% part. Maybe you do need the 2% one.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 30, 2023, at 11:26, Rob Jarratt via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I think I have found a possible cause, but not too sure what to do about it
> if I have.
> 
> I had to replace the 7812 regulator that supplies Vstart. The new one has an
> output that seems to vary between 12.2 and 12.4V. The 7812 on the good PSU
> outputs a steady 12.1V. I think that is enough to cause the E3d comparator
> to turn the comparator off and allow its output to float high.
> 
> I suspect I may have used one with a wide tolerance rather than a narrow
> one, or just have a bad one. It should be a genuine part as it came from CPC
> Farnell. Not quite sure why the output varies on the bad one though.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Rob
> 
> 
> 

[cctalk] Re: Rainbow H7842 PSU Fault

[Wayne S via cctalk]

The CT version is 4%, the ACT is 2%. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 30, 2023, at 11:37, Wayne S  wrote:
> 
> Spec sheet for the 7812 shows 2 versions - 4% and 2% tolerances. So the 
> voltages your measuring are within the 4% part. Maybe you do need the 2% one.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 30, 2023, at 11:26, Rob Jarratt via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I think I have found a possible cause, but not too sure what to do about it
>> if I have.
>> 
>> I had to replace the 7812 regulator that supplies Vstart. The new one has an
>> output that seems to vary between 12.2 and 12.4V. The 7812 on the good PSU
>> outputs a steady 12.1V. I think that is enough to cause the E3d comparator
>> to turn the comparator off and allow its output to float high.
>> 
>> I suspect I may have used one with a wide tolerance rather than a narrow
>> one, or just have a bad one. It should be a genuine part as it came from CPC
>> Farnell. Not quite sure why the output varies on the bad one though.
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Rob
>> 
>> 
>> 

[cctalk] Re: DEC RL device

[Wayne S via cctalk]

> On May 1, 2023, at 09:20, W2HX via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> Ok thanks guys. Here is a better picture of the inside cover
> https://w2hx.com/x/VintageComp/Platter-Device/insidecover.jpg
> 
> I would love to find a manual to this. There are lots of extra bits stored 
> inside a compartment. But I am not near the unit at this time.
> 
> Anyone have any idea about where to find documentation? Or even what the 
> name/model of the product might be for googling?
> 
> 
> 73 Eugene W2HX
> Subscribe to my Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Paul Koning via cctalk  
> Sent: Monday, May 1, 2023 8:33 AM
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Cc: Ethan Dicks ; Paul Koning 
> Subject: [cctalk] Re: DEC RL device
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 30, 2023, at 10:27 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 8:47 PM W2HX via cctalk  
>>> wrote:
>>> Can anyone tell me what I picked up at a NH hamfest this weekend for $20? I 
>>> see it says RL01/RL02. I have two RL02 drives and some platters. None of 
>>> which I have gotten around to trying. Other than a copious amount of pine 
>>> needles, what can this be used for? Or maybe the right question is, should 
>>> I not use it for fear of destroying an RL platter?
>>> 
>>> https://w2hx.com/?prefix=x/VintageComp/Platter-Device/
>> 
>> Wow!  Pretty neat - looks like a pack inspector for RK05, RL01/02, and
>> RK06/07 based on the (blurry) instructions.  Runout, at least, and 
>> certainly a few other measurements - would probably identify a pack 
>> that had been dropped hard enough to bend something (before you stuff 
>> it in a drive and ruin both).
>> 
>> It doesn't look like a cleaner - I've seen an RK05 cleaner and it's a 
>> bit different - more about running a Texpad over the surface while 
>> slowly rotating than measuring anything.
>> 
>> Cool find!
> 
> It would be nice to get a non-blurry photo of the instruction plate.  It does 
> seem to say that it's both a cleaner and an inspection device.  The 
> inspection part includes mirrors to let you view the platter surfaces (look 
> for scratch marks) as you rotate the pack slowly by hand.
> 
> Yes, cleaning for packs of that vintage is fairly simple, a lint-free pad 
> like Texwipe, isopropyl alcohol as the cleaning solvent.  High purity would 
> be good; 70% "rubbing alcohol" from the corner drugstore is not the best 
> option.  :-)
> 
> I can't quite figure out what the "runout" thing is.  Runout seems like a 
> factory parameter, not something you'd check in the field.  Or might it mean 
> vertical distortion (warping) of the platter?  That's not the normal meaning. 
>  I have seen bent platters, but I'm not sure how you'd get runout in the 
> normal sense of the word even if a pack were dropped fairly hard.  (The bent 
> platter I remember was on an RP04 pack that was shipped to me for a customer 
> on-site support call; it was packaged badly by so the pack cover was banged 
> which in turn pushed against the bottom platter and bent it upward.  Oops.)
> 
Runout was often checked in the field ( at least for my RM05 disk packs) by a 
professional disk pack service using a dial gauge to see if any platters had 
warped. Don’t know about Rl or Rk devices as i didn’t have any.

> paul
> 

[cctalk] Re: Rainbow H7842 PSU Fault

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Quick comment w/o looking at the schematic yet, is that zeners don’t do 
rectification, but do do regulation. If you suspect bad a bad rectifier you can 
easily check with a scope. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 7, 2023, at 03:33, Peter Coghlan via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> The comments about the tolerance of the 7812 were right, it doesn’t
>> appear to be an issue with the replacement 7812 regulator because when
>> I tried using the bench PSU to feed exactly 12V to the circuit from the
>> output of the 7812 the comparator still gave the wrong result. It was
>> still wrong if I applied only 11V
>> 
> 
> What do you mean by "gave the wrong result"?  If the power supply to the
> comparator is "reasonable" and the comparator's output does not reflect
> what is happening at it's inputs, the comparator is faulty.
> 
> If the comparator is giving the "wrong result" because it's inputs
> are telling it to, it is behaving correctly.
> 
> With no mains supply connected and a positive startup voltage applied
> to Vstart and a negative startup voltage applied to the -12V line via
> a 2k7 resistor, you could try shorting the inputs of the comparator
> together and see whether this changes the comparator's output.  I want
> to emphasise doing this without power going to the mains rectifier
> feeding the chopper so that if there is real overload, the magic smoke
> will not be released.
> 
> If the output if the comparator is then "correct" and this output being
> "wrong" was the source of the PSU not working, then the PWM should start
> up like it does in the good power supply.  This would confirm that there
> is a problem in the components providing and/or mmonitoring the -12V line.
> If the PWM does not start up, this suggests the problem is elsewhere.
> 
>> 
>> I then looked at the value of Vz on the good and bad PSUs, when applying
>> 12V to the 7812 output. That was 5.4V in both the good and bad PSUs. Where
>> I saw a difference was on the -12V output, it was +0.4V on the good PSU
>> and 0.56V on the bad one (the voltage varied so this was an average). I
>> checked the voltage drop across the current sense resistor. It is 0.01V
>> on the good PSU and 0.08V on the bad PSU, which would explain the higher
>> positive voltage on the -12V output and the comparator being turned on.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I am wondering if there could be a problem on the -12V output circuit
>> (PSU Sheet 3). I am struggling to understand the purpose of the two
>> transistors and the Zener diode there, but maybe one of them should be
>> switched on and isn’t. I am also unsure now as to which diode is doing
>> the rectification (to -12V). Someone said it was the one attached to
>> pin 6 of the transformer, but is that right? Isn’t it the Zener diode
>> half way across the page?
>> 
> 
> The TIP121 darlington transistor is a shunt regulator for the -12V line.
> The voltage at the base of the MPSA55 transistor varies with the -12V line
> because it is connected to the -12V line via the potential divider formed by
> the 1k24 and 1k10 resistors.  If the voltage on the -12V line increases
> in the negative direction, the voltage at the base of the MPSA55 increases
> in proportion to it via the potential divider.  It's emitter voltage is
> fixed by the zener diode so the MPSA55 is turned on more and it pulls more
> current through the base of the TIP121 which results in the TIP121
> conducting more and pulling the -12V line down closer to it's correct
> voltage.  The opposite happens if the -12V goes lower than it should be,
> the TIP121 is turned on less and this allows the -12V line to increase
> negatively to it's correct value.
> 
> None of this circuitry should be doing very much until the chopper
> transformer is producing the source for the -12V line.
> 
> I suppose if the TIP121 is sborted or the zener diode is shorted, it
> could be causing problems, however, from the test results etc we have 
> been given so far, I am not completely convinced there is a problem 
> with the -12V line.
> 
> If a negative startup voltage is applied to the -12V line as well as
> a positive voltage to Vstart to better simultate startup conditions,
> it may reveal more about what is happening with the -12V line.
> It might then be possible to compare the voltages across the zener
> diodes in the working power supply and the non-working power supply
> for example.
> 
> Regards,
> Peter.
> 
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Rob
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Rob Jarratt  
>> Sent: 02 May 2023 08:19
>> To: 'Mattis Lind' ; r...@jarratt.me.uk; 'General 
>> Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' 
>> Subject: RE: [cctalk] Re: Rainbow H7842 PSU Fault
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> That’s a good idea, I will try that
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Mattis Lind <  mattisl...@gmail.com> 
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 2, 2023 7:55 AM
>> To:   r...@jarratt.me.uk; General Discussion: 
>> On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <  
>> cctalk@

[cctalk] Re: ST-251 Data Recovery for Glenside Color Computer Club (GCCC)

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Tony in response to your original idea of wanting to download images for use on 
you existing machines ( did i get that right?), i think you have everything you 
need already. Download the images to your win 8 box  then use file transfer 
software (kermit or xmodem) to serially transfer to the specific box you want 
to use the software on and the use the floppy on that box to write the 
floppies. It seems like there is a version of kermit made for every box 
imaginable.  The only possible gotcha is does the box have a serial port. 



Sent from my iPhone

> On May 16, 2023, at 15:06, Ethan Dicks via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 4:05 PM Dennis Boone via cctalk
>  wrote:
>>> At the most recent CoCoFEST!, I brought home the old Glenside Club
>>> Computer Hard Drive.  The mechanism is an ST-251...
> <
>> The best way to approach this, given the interchange issues with MFM
>> disk controllers, is probably to use one of Dave Gesswein's MFM Emulator
>> devices.  It'll give you a flux image that can then be decode.
> 
> I have an MDM Emulator and it's nice, on those occasions you are
> trying to read a supported drive (it supports a _lot_ of encodings,
> but not every single platform).
> 
> Two layers - fortunately in this case, the low-level format is known
> (WD1002A-WX1) and that's good.  I'd totally expect an MFM Emulator to
> be able to pull bytes off the drive.  I am not a CoCo person so I have
> no idea what tools can be used to pull files from a raw pile of disk
> blocks there.
> 
> -ethan

[cctalk] Re: ST-251 Data Recovery for Glenside Color Computer Club (GCCC)

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Fred, glad you chimed in. 
If you have the original post, Tony wants to download different things images 
for those machines, probably from the internet and use the software on those 
machines via floppy.  As another item, he acquired a coco computer hard disk 
that he like to get the data from. A greezweasel was suggested. 
So he has 2 somewhat related tasks.



Sent from my iPhone

> On May 16, 2023, at 15:42, Fred Cisin via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 16 May 2023, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
>> Tony in response to your original idea of wanting to download images for use 
>> on you existing machines ( did i get that right?), i think you have 
>> everything you need already. Download the images to your win 8 box then use 
>> file transfer software (kermit or xmodem) to serially transfer to the 
>> specific box you want to use the software on and the use the floppy on that 
>> box to write the floppies. It seems like there is a version of kermit made 
>> for every box imaginable.  The only possible gotcha is does the box have a 
>> serial port.
> 
> He would have to add a serial port (USB to serial dongle).
> 
> Although, . . .
> many years ago, in the early days of USB, there was a cable and software 
> provision for transferring files USB yo USB.  'course, it's doubtful that any 
> of his other machines have USB.
> 
> 
> Similarly, he could buy a cheap external USB 3.5" drive.  Write content to 
> that drive on the modern machine, and read those floppies on the older 
> machines.  The readily avaailable one have firmware that only supports 720K, 
> 1.4M, and [sometimes] NEC-style "mode 3".
> 
> There do not seem to be any currently available USB external drives that 
> support cnaything other than a 3.5" drive integrated with the controller. 
> There ONCE was one with a non-integrated controller that could be modified 
> for 3", 3.25', 5.25" or 8"
> 
> I get the implication that he is considering USB flux-transition devices that 
> could be coerced into acting as a general purpose floppy controller.
> 
> 

[cctalk] Re: ST-251 Data Recovery for Glenside Color Computer Club (GCCC)

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Re: flux images. 
Tony, There are flux images on the internet archive if you want to practice 
using them.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 18, 2023, at 12:20, Fred Cisin via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 18 May 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
>> The idea's the same.   What I'm a bit surprised about is that there has
>> been no emulation of a generic floppy controller offered.  It can't be
>> that complex; if I recall correctly the NEC 765 only used 1100 words of
>> microcode.
> 
> That is exactly what I want.  Fully transparent.
> Full implementation of INT13h,  1Eh
> plus the added functions of read/write a flux transition track,
> 
> and simple command line software for image/write image of entire disk.
> 
> --
> Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
> 
> 
> 

[cctalk] Re: Super I/O chips and Getting floppy images to/from real disks

[Wayne S via cctalk]

What op sys and version do you want to run on it? Windows changed the way 
drivers work after Xp so it may be an isshe. That made replacement of older PCs 
that controlled equipment like xray, MRI, and industrial stuff impossible as 
the manufacturers couldn’t write new drivers — lost the knowledge thru mergers 
and retirements/buyouts.


Sent from my iPhone

> On May 24, 2023, at 07:25, Joshua Rice via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Interestingly, i'm looking at procuring a reasonably vintage laptop for a 
> computer festival i'm planning to attend soon. It seems that many laptops of 
> the PIII era use SuperIO chips, but i'm rather confused as to how "low level" 
> they get.
> 
> 
> 
> Some of you may remember my RCA MS2000. I've had great luck writing bootable 
> images from a PIII machine with a "standard" 1.44mb floppy drive, despite the 
> format being 70-track, SSDD. The machine's floppy controller uses a bona-fide 
> NEC uPD765 though, so no surprises it worked fine... ( Here's a video of me 
> playing around with it for the curious... 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdKkaf-77dE )
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really asking if anyone has any recommendations for a laptop that is 
> reasonably powerful, fairly modern (has USB), but also has a 
> direct-connection floppy drive that can do device level shenanigans (via 
> Omniflop) to allow me to write floppies in obscure formats. Bonus points if 
> it can use it with a serial terminal emulator, and run the Emma02 RCA 1802 
> emulator on it as well. I, like Tony, don't drive, so i need something 
> compact and portable for public transport travel.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been eyeing up a Dell Latitude C series (C600?) But the whole 
> SuperIO-over-parallel thing makes me think there might be proprietary drivers 
> involved, preventing device level access of the floppy drives... Hopefully 
> some of you might be a bit more wise.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers, Josh

[cctalk] Re: Getting floppy images to/from real floppy disks.

[Wayne S via cctalk]

It’s amazing to me how small “full size” cars are these days. I saw my old 1961 
Ford Falcon that used to be a small car and its bigger than my “luxury full 
size” car today.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 3, 2023, at 15:06, Fred Cisin via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>>> On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 8:24 AM Ethan Dicks via cctalk 
>>> 
>>> wrote:
 I did see an actual 1970s station wagon loaded with RL02 cartridges
 once, pulled up at the dock of Baker Systems, the large Computer
 Science building at Ohio State (I suspect they were cleaning out a
 machine room and someone wanted the packs)
> 
>> On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 4:38 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk
>>  wrote:
>>> It might've just been an enactment of the old adage for a video project.
>>> Maybe they dumped the carts afterwards? :(
> 
> On Sat, 3 Jun 2023, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
>> This was in the late 80s when packs and such were still somewhat desirable.
>> 
>> I did not see any cameras on the dock.
> 
> The cameras would not be needed until it was "hurtling down the highway", not 
> at the loading dock, nor even PRNDL'ing in the parking lot.

[cctalk] Re: Source for NEW (unused) punch tape

[Wayne S via cctalk]

There is this for ideas…

https://www.instructables.com/DIY-Paper-TapePunch-Card-Maker-and-Reader/


Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 5, 2023, at 12:29, Anders Nelson via cctalk  
wrote:

This is an awesome idea, please make it. How great would it be to load a
receipt-paper roll (made of heavier stock of course), lase the holes and
pass the paper over a vacuum slot to suck the chads.

I was trying to come up with a mostly 3d-printable, cam-driven punch myself
but of course it will never get done.

Happy to provide any hardware/embedded help if wanted!

--
Anders Nelson


On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 2:19 PM Robotguy via cctalk 
wrote:

For various reasons (including, but not limited to, insanity and
obsessiveness*) I am building a diode laser based tape punch. It's not
specifically for a classic comp, but I'd like to stick with standard format
so that it'd be useful for making custom tapes for members in the future. I
will probably need to make dozens of tapes so using actual, vintage rolls
is out of the question. Does anyone know if 1" tape is used for anything
else and where I might find some new? Otherwise I may have to add
paper-slitter to my project list and make my own.




*I've had the idea of a lost-media ARG stuck in my head for years.

[cctalk] Re: PCs Limited XT

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Open it up and take a look. Maybe the daughterboard it there and just needs 
reseating.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 14, 2023, at 07:26, Bill Degnan via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I am getting an error message when I boot up a recently donated PCs Limited
> XT clone.  The error is
> 
> ARC Turbo Board
> X Turbo System Error # 04
> 
> Does anyone have one of these boards, I believe the error means the board
> has been removed, and the system can't find it/bad board.  If so, please
> advise the $$.
> 
> I don't think the board is specific to PCs Limted, I found a general manual
> called "Turbo-XT Main Board" that seems to be the OEM of the PCs
> Limited-branded motherboard.  I assume there is a separate daughterboard
> the the "Turbo" part.  Yes?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Bill

[cctalk] Re: PCs Limited XT

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Or it was removed and the config wasn’t updated.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 14, 2023, at 14:47, Bill Degnan via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Obviously I opened the box.  So Inguess the Turbo board is just
> "motherboard"
> Bill
> 
>> On Wed, Jun 14, 2023, 4:21 PM Chris Zach via cctalk 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I used to use (and service) PC Limited stuff back in the 90's at Macro.
>> I don't remember a turbo board, just a normal XT system board. Pop the
>> case open and check.
>> 
>> If I recall PC Limited and Dell (what they became) came with call in
>> service from Xerox. Maybe give them a call? ;-)
>> 
>> CZ
>> 
>>> On 6/14/2023 1:08 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
>>> Open it up and take a look. Maybe the daughterboard it there and just
>> needs reseating.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 14, 2023, at 07:26, Bill Degnan via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I am getting an error message when I boot up a recently donated PCs
>> Limited
>>>> XT clone.  The error is
>>>> 
>>>> ARC Turbo Board
>>>> X Turbo System Error # 04
>>>> 
>>>> Does anyone have one of these boards, I believe the error means the
>> board
>>>> has been removed, and the system can't find it/bad board.  If so, please
>>>> advise the $$.
>>>> 
>>>> I don't think the board is specific to PCs Limted, I found a general
>> manual
>>>> called "Turbo-XT Main Board" that seems to be the OEM of the PCs
>>>> Limited-branded motherboard.  I assume there is a separate daughterboard
>>>> the the "Turbo" part.  Yes?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks
>>>> 
>>>> Bill
>> 

[cctalk] Re: Any RSX-11 fans able to identify file types?

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Chuck, why not post the catalog snd we’ll all take a look? 
Power of the internet!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 23, 2023, at 18:58, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I've got a few backup sets (potentially incomplete) done on MicroRSX
> that were created with BRU on RX50 media.  I've cranked out some code to
> itemize the contents, but the file types are a mystery.  I suppose that
> one has to live in that world to know (e.g. MSL)
> 
> The sets appear to be (parts) of an incremental backup scheme; I think
> I've got at least one copy of the complete set.
> 
> Would anyone be willing to have a look at the (ASCII) file catalog and
> suggest the application that may have created the files?
> 
> Email me offlist if interested.
> 
> --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Any RSX-11 fans able to identify file types?

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Pretty hard to tell from just the file names what app created them and looking 
for (for example) .msl files sends you down different paths, like visual studio 
( probably not), ImageMagick Scripting Language File, MAINSAIL Source Code, and 
ProWORX Nxt MSL are all apps that create .msl

Any more info you can shed on what the industry is that the customer does? Is 
it geographic mapping or some kind of science processing?


Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 25, 2023, at 12:16, Tomasz Rola via cctalk  wrote:

On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 04:39:01PM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 6/24/23 12:38, Wayne S wrote:
Chuck, why not post the catalog snd we’ll all take a look?
Power of the internet!

Okay, I guess that's okay.   Here's the data from the MFD:

https://icedrive.net/s/Q56ZY2Sv4g62Gi9vZ9jzNQ2CD6Bu

Since this is customer data, I can't publish the contents of the files
themselves.

If you have those files accessible from some Unix-like OS, then you
can:

strings < theXfile.x | less

Sometimes also:

hexdump -C < theXfile.x | less

Or, to avoid the risk of fu-ups if you put "<" in bad direction:

cat theXfile.x | strings | less

It may reveal a bit about the insides of the file, for example in case
of sqlite database there would probably be a tables description.

Also, comparing

cat theXfile.x | strings | wc -c
cat theXfile.x | wc -c

would givw some idea of how much of the file is text and how much of
it is something else.

All those tricks assume that files are uncompressed, of course.

HTH

--
Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.  **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home**
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...  **
** **
** Tomasz Rola  mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **

[cctalk] Re: Any RSX-11 fans able to identify file types?

[Wayne S via cctalk]

The file list says they were created in the 1986 time frame.
So what Dec systems were running around then that required rsx11 ?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 25, 2023, at 12:39, Wayne S  wrote:

 Pretty hard to tell from just the file names what app created them and 
looking for (for example) .msl files sends you down different paths, like 
visual studio ( probably not), ImageMagick Scripting Language File, MAINSAIL 
Source Code, and ProWORX Nxt MSL are all apps that create .msl

Any more info you can shed on what the industry is that the customer does? Is 
it geographic mapping or some kind of science processing?


Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 25, 2023, at 12:16, Tomasz Rola via cctalk  wrote:

On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 04:39:01PM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 6/24/23 12:38, Wayne S wrote:
Chuck, why not post the catalog snd we’ll all take a look?
Power of the internet!

Okay, I guess that's okay.   Here's the data from the MFD:

https://icedrive.net/s/Q56ZY2Sv4g62Gi9vZ9jzNQ2CD6Bu

Since this is customer data, I can't publish the contents of the files
themselves.

If you have those files accessible from some Unix-like OS, then you
can:

strings < theXfile.x | less

Sometimes also:

hexdump -C < theXfile.x | less

Or, to avoid the risk of fu-ups if you put "<" in bad direction:

cat theXfile.x | strings | less

It may reveal a bit about the insides of the file, for example in case
of sqlite database there would probably be a tables description.

Also, comparing

cat theXfile.x | strings | wc -c
cat theXfile.x | wc -c

would givw some idea of how much of the file is text and how much of
it is something else.

All those tricks assume that files are uncompressed, of course.

HTH

--
Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.  **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home**
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...  **
** **
** Tomasz Rola  mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **

[cctalk] Re: Any RSX-11 fans able to identify file types?

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Might want to look at the login.cmd file and see if any logical 
variables/commands are defined that might give clues.
Also, the .rpt files might have a header that gives some info about the program.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 25, 2023, at 12:44, Wayne S  wrote:

 The file list says they were created in the 1986 time frame.
So what Dec systems were running around then that required rsx11 ?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 25, 2023, at 12:39, Wayne S  wrote:

 Pretty hard to tell from just the file names what app created them and 
looking for (for example) .msl files sends you down different paths, like 
visual studio ( probably not), ImageMagick Scripting Language File, MAINSAIL 
Source Code, and ProWORX Nxt MSL are all apps that create .msl

Any more info you can shed on what the industry is that the customer does? Is 
it geographic mapping or some kind of science processing?


Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 25, 2023, at 12:16, Tomasz Rola via cctalk  wrote:

On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 04:39:01PM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 6/24/23 12:38, Wayne S wrote:
Chuck, why not post the catalog snd we’ll all take a look?
Power of the internet!

Okay, I guess that's okay.   Here's the data from the MFD:

https://icedrive.net/s/Q56ZY2Sv4g62Gi9vZ9jzNQ2CD6Bu

Since this is customer data, I can't publish the contents of the files
themselves.

If you have those files accessible from some Unix-like OS, then you
can:

strings < theXfile.x | less

Sometimes also:

hexdump -C < theXfile.x | less

Or, to avoid the risk of fu-ups if you put "<" in bad direction:

cat theXfile.x | strings | less

It may reveal a bit about the insides of the file, for example in case
of sqlite database there would probably be a tables description.

Also, comparing

cat theXfile.x | strings | wc -c
cat theXfile.x | wc -c

would givw some idea of how much of the file is text and how much of
it is something else.

All those tricks assume that files are uncompressed, of course.

HTH

--
Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.  **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home**
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...  **
** **
** Tomasz Rola  mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **

[cctalk] Re: Any RSX-11 fans able to identify file types?

[Wayne S via cctalk]

.dtx files IIRC were created  by Tex and Latex which fit in with rsx11 and DEC 
software. So maybe that is it?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 25, 2023, at 12:53, Wayne S  wrote:

 Might want to look at the login.cmd file and see if any logical 
variables/commands are defined that might give clues.
Also, the .rpt files might have a header that gives some info about the program.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 25, 2023, at 12:44, Wayne S  wrote:

 The file list says they were created in the 1986 time frame.
So what Dec systems were running around then that required rsx11 ?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 25, 2023, at 12:39, Wayne S  wrote:

 Pretty hard to tell from just the file names what app created them and 
looking for (for example) .msl files sends you down different paths, like 
visual studio ( probably not), ImageMagick Scripting Language File, MAINSAIL 
Source Code, and ProWORX Nxt MSL are all apps that create .msl

Any more info you can shed on what the industry is that the customer does? Is 
it geographic mapping or some kind of science processing?


Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 25, 2023, at 12:16, Tomasz Rola via cctalk  wrote:

On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 04:39:01PM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 6/24/23 12:38, Wayne S wrote:
Chuck, why not post the catalog snd we’ll all take a look?
Power of the internet!

Okay, I guess that's okay.   Here's the data from the MFD:

https://icedrive.net/s/Q56ZY2Sv4g62Gi9vZ9jzNQ2CD6Bu

Since this is customer data, I can't publish the contents of the files
themselves.

If you have those files accessible from some Unix-like OS, then you
can:

strings < theXfile.x | less

Sometimes also:

hexdump -C < theXfile.x | less

Or, to avoid the risk of fu-ups if you put "<" in bad direction:

cat theXfile.x | strings | less

It may reveal a bit about the insides of the file, for example in case
of sqlite database there would probably be a tables description.

Also, comparing

cat theXfile.x | strings | wc -c
cat theXfile.x | wc -c

would givw some idea of how much of the file is text and how much of
it is something else.

All those tricks assume that files are uncompressed, of course.

HTH

--
Regards,
Tomasz Rola

--
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature.  **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home**
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened...  **
** **
** Tomasz Rola  mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **

[cctalk] Re: Any RSX-11 fans able to identify file types?

[Wayne S via cctalk]

I remember that th

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 25, 2023, at 17:26, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 6/25/23 16:59, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> I have 3" and 1800 pages of possible PDP-11 applications.  Trying to
>> guess what
>> 
>> application created those files is likely to be a study in frustration. 
>> Does the
>> 
>> "customer" have no idea what programs they ran under RSX-11 that might have
>> 
>> created those files?
> 
> The "customer" no longer inhabits this vale of tears.
> 
> Was there an application called A2Z?  Just probing around in the files.
> 
> --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Any RSX-11 fans able to identify file types?

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Sorry disregard. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 25, 2023, at 19:00, Wayne S  wrote:
> 
> I remember that th
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Jun 25, 2023, at 17:26, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 6/25/23 16:59, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have 3" and 1800 pages of possible PDP-11 applications.  Trying to
>>> guess what
>>> 
>>> application created those files is likely to be a study in frustration. 
>>> Does the
>>> 
>>> "customer" have no idea what programs they ran under RSX-11 that might have
>>> 
>>> created those files?
>> 
>> The "customer" no longer inhabits this vale of tears.
>> 
>> Was there an application called A2Z?  Just probing around in the files.
>> 
>> --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: 1974 No Name Terminal

[Wayne S via cctalk]

I’ve just pressed the 2 broken end together and measured the resistance end to 
end to get an idea of the resistance. Any old trimmer of suitable value should 
work as a replacement as the vdu is probably not going to be in a harsh 
environment anymore. 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2023, at 15:13, Brad H via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Rod!
> 
> I discovered an immediate problem I hadn't caught before.. two of the trimmer 
> resistors had actually been broken right off two of their legs.. so that may 
> account for strange/missing voltages.   They are a CONRAC part 928237.  The 
> CRT is CONRAC too, but I still don't think this is a CONRAC terminal.  
> Anyway, I only found one source for the exact resistor, an aerospace company, 
> and they want $80 per unit (I think they just want me to go away).
> 
> So far in testing I haven't found any shorts.  My main worry is the PSU 
> sending incorrect voltages to wrong place.  In addition to the broken 
> resistors I also discovered some broken solder joints on the PSU PCB.. those 
> at least are repaired.  I'm trying to figure out the resistance the two 
> resistors were set to so I can put a replacement in with same, hopefully that 
> gets me close to what should be there.
> 
> Brad
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Rod Smallwood via cctalk  
> Sent: Wednesday, July 5, 2023 8:48 AM
> To: Douglas Taylor via cctalk 
> Cc: Rod Smallwood 
> Subject: [cctalk] Re: 1974 No Name Terminal
> 
> I worked on VDU's as an engineer in the UK before joining DEC to sell volume 
> VT100's in 1975
> 
> There's a mention of block on one of the cards so a block mode terminal.
> 
> That means enter data and press a key to send the lot.
> 
> The card cage could mean its emulating something.
> 
> I'd test as many capacitors as possible. PSU first and replace as required.
> 
> Run PSU and check voltages.
> 
>  Check each board for power rail to ground shorts.
> 
>  If ok give each board +5v on its own and see if the TTL is alive.
> 
> If theres a clock gen start there (look for a crystal can)
> 
>  Loads of fans might indicate an industrial environment
> 
>   At this age some TTL will have failed plus capacitors.
> 
>  Rod Smallwood
> 
> 
>> On 05/07/2023 16:28, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote:
>> At first glance it reminded me of the Hazeltine 1000, I owned one in 
>> the early 1980's.  Brutally simple terminals, I remember getting a ROM 
>> from Jameco which allowed the terminal to display lowercase letters.
>> Pure luxury.
>> Doug
>> 
>>> On 7/4/2023 6:57 PM, Brad H via cctalk wrote:
>>> Hi there - not sure how much overlap there is with vcfed's forum, but 
>>> thought I would reach out here in case.  I have a terminal from 1974 
>>> (based on date codes I've found on the motherboard).  I'm unable to 
>>> determine manufacturer and that would be handy for diagnostic 
>>> purposes. The terminal casing is made out of foam, and although there 
>>> are some serial numbers stamped around, nothing really lines up.  The 
>>> fans inside have zero dust or dirt, so I'm thinking this may not have 
>>> seen much use, or may be a prototype or pilot for something.  It does 
>>> have RS232 capability. Interestingly the screen is set down below the 
>>> keyboard so that only half of it is visible.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> My main issue right now is the PSU - I am trying to determine if I'm 
>>> safe to attempt powering up the board (the PSU so far seems to be ok, 
>>> although some voltages on a couple of pins are mysterious).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Anyway, on the extremely off chance anyone has ever seen one of these 
>>> or something like it.. any tips would be appreciated. If I can find a 
>>> manual I'll feel a lot safer about turning it on.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Some pics here:
>>> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-2uEFbi3OKBYr06y6yHnygDiLMtw2
>>> Qkj?usp
>>> 
>>> =sharing
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Brad
>>> 
>>> b...@techtimetraveller.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 

[cctalk] Re: Good Inventory Program for keeping track of my DEC boards, parts, computers, etc?

[Wayne S via cctalk]

If you’re okay using a MS product that you can find cheap, Microsoft Access is 
pretty good. Lotsa tutorials and works well for small databases. Only drawback 
is it’s Windoze. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 17, 2023, at 08:31, Ali via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> That may be the rub.  The installation and update process is... well,
>> let's just say it
>> gives me fits and I spent a non-trivial amount of time working out the
>> procedure.  Suffice
>> it to say that I think quite poorly indeed of composer and yarn, and
>> really don't think
>> that there needs to be a software build process for a webapp written in
>> PHP.
> 
> 
> 
>> that.  What I can
>> speak to, however, is text mode.  Loading my install in Lynx shows a
>> somewhat bewildering
>> version of the UI and the ever helpful message "Please activate
>> Javascript to use all
>> features," which I think pretty much says it all.  I'm not able to do
>> anything meaningful
>> with it from Lynx, even after logging in.
> 
> After looking at it some more and playing with the online model they have for 
> testing my excitement has waned. Add to this the fact that it doesn't let you 
> produce simple pages (a la your issues with Lynx) and I think my search 
> continues. The idea is what I am looking for but this particular execution 
> doesn't do it for me. I may have to buckle down and learn SQL after all... Or 
> some other DB language/program that has been around since the DOS days and is 
> still in use today
> 
> -Ali
> 

[cctalk] Re: Good Inventory Program for keeping track of my DEC boards, parts, computers, etc?

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Is Sheets free or do you have to have a paid google account? I just used it at 
work (paid account) and wondered if a normal consumer could get it for free.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 17, 2023, at 11:14, John Herron  wrote:


I'm a little surprised noone mentioned Google sheets or something that's cloud 
native? Probably only accessible from newer systems though but I've debated it 
since it would be instantly accessible from phone also.

On Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 1:02 PM Wayne S via cctalk 
mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:
If you’re okay using a MS product that you can find cheap, Microsoft Access is 
pretty good. Lotsa tutorials and works well for small databases. Only drawback 
is it’s Windoze.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 17, 2023, at 08:31, Ali via cctalk 
> mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:
>
> 
>>
>> That may be the rub.  The installation and update process is... well,
>> let's just say it
>> gives me fits and I spent a non-trivial amount of time working out the
>> procedure.  Suffice
>> it to say that I think quite poorly indeed of composer and yarn, and
>> really don't think
>> that there needs to be a software build process for a webapp written in
>> PHP.
>
> 
>
>> that.  What I can
>> speak to, however, is text mode.  Loading my install in Lynx shows a
>> somewhat bewildering
>> version of the UI and the ever helpful message "Please activate
>> Javascript to use all
>> features," which I think pretty much says it all.  I'm not able to do
>> anything meaningful
>> with it from Lynx, even after logging in.
>
> After looking at it some more and playing with the online model they have for 
> testing my excitement has waned. Add to this the fact that it doesn't let you 
> produce simple pages (a la your issues with Lynx) and I think my search 
> continues. The idea is what I am looking for but this particular execution 
> doesn't do it for me. I may have to buckle down and learn SQL after all... Or 
> some other DB language/program that has been around since the DOS days and is 
> still in use today
>
> -Ali
>

[cctalk] Re: Good Inventory Program for keeping track of my DEC boards, parts, computers, etc?

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Off the original subject but here’s Google’s description of robots.txt and how 
Google can show your page in results.

https://developers.google.com/search/docs/crawling-indexing/robots/intro


Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 18, 2023, at 13:39, Sellam Abraham via cctalk  
wrote:

On Fri, Aug 18, 2023 at 12:35 PM Paul Koning via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:



On Aug 18, 2023, at 12:48 PM, The Doctor via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

--- Original Message ---
On Thursday, August 17th, 2023 at 13:29, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


On 8/17/2023 2:14 PM, John Herron via cctalk wrote:

Why would you give all your data to Google?

They pretty much have it all anyway.  Even if you use /robots.txt to
block
them, they still spider and index pages,

Really?  It would be interesting to have evidence supporting that, because
if so, they could be subjected to pain for violating an explicit order not
to do so.


Not to mention that that could well be a criminal act since it would
constitute unauthorized access of a computer system.

If anyone has actual evidence of this happening now then please show it to
me, and I'll take the necessary legal steps to bring Larry and Sergey to
justice.

Sellam

[cctalk] Re: NewtonOS

[Wayne S via cctalk]

I used a newton and still have it a box. It was heavy and very slow. Graffiti 
didn’t work very well either.  Microsoft came put with their first notepad 
running Win/NT a few years after that but it was slow too. I think Newton was 
just ahead of it’s time. The cpu’s needed to run it efficiently had not been 
invented yet.
The Treo and the Blackberry 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 29, 2023, at 18:46, Grant Taylor via cctalk  
> wrote:
> On 8/29/23 7:28 PM, David Arnold wrote:
>> Some of you might recall that Apple released a series of machines based on 
>> the Newton OS in the early 1990s.
> 
> ACK
> 
> How do Palm Pilot's compare to the Newton?
> 
> I had someone I respect and trust make a lot of comparisons between a Palm T3 
> (?) I used to carry and Newtons.  He was even opening programs in a some sort 
> of editor and comparing things.  I distinctly remember him saying that he 
> thought there was some relationship between the Newton and Palm.  But I've 
> never seen nor heard anything to corroborate this.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die

[cctalk] Re: NewtonOS

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Finishing up 
The BB and Palm and Treo were faster and far more usable that the Newton.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 29, 2023, at 18:59, Wayne S  wrote:
> 
> I used a newton and still have it a box. It was heavy and very slow. 
> Graffiti didn’t work very well either.  Microsoft came put with their first 
> notepad running Win/NT a few years after that but it was slow too. I think 
> Newton was just ahead of it’s time. The cpu’s needed to run it efficiently 
> had not been invented yet.
> The Treo and the Blackberry 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Aug 29, 2023, at 18:46, Grant Taylor via cctalk  
>>> wrote:
>>> On 8/29/23 7:28 PM, David Arnold wrote:
>>> Some of you might recall that Apple released a series of machines based on 
>>> the Newton OS in the early 1990s.
>> 
>> ACK
>> 
>> How do Palm Pilot's compare to the Newton?
>> 
>> I had someone I respect and trust make a lot of comparisons between a Palm 
>> T3 (?) I used to carry and Newtons.  He was even opening programs in a some 
>> sort of editor and comparing things.  I distinctly remember him saying that 
>> he thought there was some relationship between the Newton and Palm.  But 
>> I've never seen nor heard anything to corroborate this.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Grant. . . .
>> unix || die

[cctalk] Re: VCFMW vendor tables

[Wayne S via cctalk]

This dislike of “Discord” has touched a nerve for me.  It’s also one of the 
reasons the cctalk list has lost most of it value. 
Discord is a collection of channels most devoted to specific subjects that you 
more or less subscribe to. It’s just a server and you need an invite to join a 
group. I’m in the Classic computer group and find it to be filled with 
knowledge people willing to share that knowledge with others. 
Saying you don’t like “Discord” is like saying you don’t like TV. If you don’t 
like the content, simply don’t watch it.  Don’t blame the medium. 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 30, 2023, at 11:11, Mike Katz via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> I have to second the motion.  In my opinion in general social media is a 
> waste of time and energy.
> 
> I understand the time it takes to run VCF but to have multiple possible 
> different places (webiste, ICM, discord, etc) to get information is a bit 
> much, especially for us old farts.
> 
> Discord contributes as much noise as it does relevant information.
> 
> My suggestion would be to use the website as the primary source of 
> information and write Java/Jacascript/PDP/Json code to take any website 
> updates and forward them to any other desired channel.
> 
> That way all channels get the same information virtually simultaneously 
> without any human effort than the the info on the main website.
> 
>> On 8/30/2023 11:35 AM, Tom Uban via cctalk wrote:
>>> On 8/30/23 11:25 AM, Seth Morabito via cctalk wrote:
>>> On Wed, Aug 30, 2023, at 7:26 AM, William Donzelli via cctalk wrote:
 All the VCFMW info is on the Discord server.
>>> I swear to God, Discord will be the end of the open Internet, it's where 
>>> information goes to die. I hate it with every fiber of my being. And yes, I 
>>> use it, I'm on many servers. I'm still allowed to detest it.
>>> 
>>> -Seth
>> I have heard of Discord, but have not had a need to use it. Odd that 
>> https://vcfmw.org/ does not have an obvious link for Discord if it is where 
>> we are expected to find useful information. Would I need to have a Discord 
>> account (and be a member of some group) to see this information?
>> 
>> --tom
>> 
> 

[cctalk] Re: VCFMW vendor tables

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Just like Twitter (X), Facebook, Google, Yahoo or just about any online 
business.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 30, 2023, at 11:43, Raphaël Jacquot via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> Le 30/08/2023 à 20:30, Wayne S via cctalk a écrit :
>> This dislike of “Discord” has touched a nerve for me.  It’s also one of the 
>> reasons the cctalk list has lost most of it value.
>> Discord is a collection of channels most devoted to specific subjects that 
>> you more or less subscribe to. It’s just a server and you need an invite to 
>> join a group. I’m in the Classic computer group and find it to be filled 
>> with knowledge people willing to share that knowledge with others.
>> Saying you don’t like “Discord” is like saying you don’t like TV. If you 
>> don’t like the content, simply don’t watch it.  Don’t blame the medium.
> 
> The main issue with discord is that it's a centralized service dependant on 
> one particular company which may fold anytime, and that can decide to destroy 
> forums runing on their servers at any time for any reason.
> 
> 
> Raphaël

[cctalk] Re: VCFMW vendor tables

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Also, it run on Google Cloud so being centralized is a dubious distinction.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 30, 2023, at 11:49, Wayne S  wrote:
> 
> Just like Twitter (X), Facebook, Google, Yahoo or just about any online 
> business.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 30, 2023, at 11:43, Raphaël Jacquot via cctalk 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> Le 30/08/2023 à 20:30, Wayne S via cctalk a écrit :
>>> This dislike of “Discord” has touched a nerve for me.  It’s also one of the 
>>> reasons the cctalk list has lost most of it value.
>>> Discord is a collection of channels most devoted to specific subjects that 
>>> you more or less subscribe to. It’s just a server and you need an invite to 
>>> join a group. I’m in the Classic computer group and find it to be filled 
>>> with knowledge people willing to share that knowledge with others.
>>> Saying you don’t like “Discord” is like saying you don’t like TV. If you 
>>> don’t like the content, simply don’t watch it.  Don’t blame the medium.
>> 
>> The main issue with discord is that it's a centralized service dependant on 
>> one particular company which may fold anytime, and that can decide to 
>> destroy forums runing on their servers at any time for any reason.
>> 
>> 
>> Raphaël

[cctalk] Re: VCFMW vendor tables

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Hi all. 
It helps to be clear on what you mean. Referring to a technology or app without 
being specific may ruin its reputation and what is was intended to be used for.

Discord was not intended to be an archive for information, just a way to 
encourage the dissemination of information in a usable/ timely way.  

Wiki’s are good for archiving info, as is the Internet Archive, but both 
Wikipedia and the IA are  struggling financially  and will probably fold unless 
they come up with a better business model for growth and sustainability. 
I don’t think any private entity will be able to save internet information long 
term.
Hell even Yahoo groups shutdown and a lot of info was lost there. Even HP has 
lost a lot of the DEC archive of software and really made no attempt to recover 
it.  
I think the governments of the world might have to try to take on this 
challenge. At least, the library of Congress should be tasked with it.




Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 30, 2023, at 11:55, Seth Morabito via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Aug 30, 2023, at 11:30 AM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
>> This dislike of “Discord” has touched a nerve for me.  It’s also one of 
>> the reasons the cctalk list has lost most of it value. 
>> Discord is a collection of channels most devoted to specific subjects 
>> that you more or less subscribe to. It’s just a server and you need an 
>> invite to join a group. I’m in the Classic computer group and find it 
>> to be filled with knowledge people willing to share that knowledge with 
>> others. 
>> Saying you don’t like “Discord” is like saying you don’t like TV. If 
>> you don’t like the content, simply don’t watch it.  Don’t blame the 
>> medium. 
> 
> It's not that I don't like the content, it's that content accessibility is 
> awful. We're moving important information from a publicly available, 
> searchable, indexable web, and putting it into a walled garden where you 
> can't find it unless you sign up for a service, find the right server, and 
> join it.
> 
> Let me be more clear: I love the CHAT feature of Discord. It's perfect for 
> that. It's a great place to discuss things in real time. But it is dreadful 
> as a replacement for forums and archives.
> 
> Every time a phpBB forum shuts down and deletes its archive we lose history. 
> The new history being made on Discord is never going to be a viable 
> replacement because it's a closed system behind locked doors. Even when you 
> get the key to the doors and join a server, good luck finding information 
> that's well laid out, organized, searchable, and accessible. And good luck 
> exporting that information.
> 
> We already have wikis, we already have forums. Let them do what they're good 
> at, leave Discord for real-time discussion. Anything less is just a sad, sad 
> waste of potential and robbing from the future.
> 
> -Seth
> -- 
>  Seth Morabito * Poulsbo, WA * https://loomcom.com/

[cctalk] Re: Silly question about S-100 and video monitors

[Wayne S via cctalk]

When s-100 machines came out, they were standalone. The serial port was for 
sending serial data not for a terminal. You would have to write some software 
to use it with a terminal. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 30, 2023, at 14:45, Fred Cisin via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 30 Aug 2023, William Sudbrink via cctalk wrote:
>> There were RF modulators.  See the November 1976 review of the Poly-88 here
>> (on page 16):
>> http://cini.classiccmp.org/pdf/DrDobbs/DrDobbs-1976-11-12-v1n10.pdf
>> Note the reference to the "Pixie Verter".  It is a little cheap circuit
>> board that takes the composite signal and modulates it onto channel 3.  You
>> will find references to the Pixie-Verter in a number of publications and
>> user manuals for early video boards.  The Matrox and the Cromemco Dazzler
>> and the Ohio Scientific documentation all reference it.  David Ahl in his
>> "Saga Of A System" magazine article references it.  With that, a TV, video
>> board, RF modulator and a parallel keyboard were much cheaper than any
>> serial terminal back then.  The RF modulator was separate from the video
>> board (usually hung on the back of the TV) for noise reasons.
> 
> In the circles that I was in, the Sup-R-ModII seemed to be the most common.  
> Oddly, it was on UHF channel 34, although there were plenty of channel 3/4 
> ones.  Tuning the TV to channel 34 wasn't all that hard, because it was right 
> below a third tier channel and a 24/7 [speed-freak?] preacher dude, that 
> provided easy landmarks in the spectrum.
> 
> Since the RF modulator needed a power supply, and it was easy to bring power 
> out from the computer, whereas the 'rents wouldn't let you modify the family 
> Philco, amongst my associates, it tended to be located at the computer.
> 
> Both the AppleII, and the IBM CGA (even including most of its clones) had a 4 
> pin Berg (one pin usually missing as a key) to power and run the RF modulator.
> 
> Terminals were cool if you had one, but cost more.
> 
> 
> --
> Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
> 

[cctalk] Re: Silly question about S-100 and video monitors

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Was the picture significantly better then with the modulator ?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 31, 2023, at 14:14, David Arnold via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 31 Aug 2023, at 07:07, William Sudbrink via cctalk 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Now that I'm thinking about it, there were also instructions for hacking the
>> composite signal straight into the TV, bypassing the tuner... but Mom and
>> Dad probably wouldn't go for that (mine didn't).
> 
> I paid a local electronics store to add an RCA composite input to our old 
> black & white TV, bypassing the tuner.  It think it cost $50 at the time 
> (early 80s)
> 
> 
> 
> d
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: William Sudbrink via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org] 
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2023 4:54 PM
>> To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
>> 
>> Cc: 'W2HX' ; William Sudbrink 
>> Subject: [cctalk] Re: Silly question about S-100 and video monitors
>> 
>> There were RF modulators.  See the November 1976 review of the Poly-88 here
>> (on page 16):
>> 
>> http://cini.classiccmp.org/pdf/DrDobbs/DrDobbs-1976-11-12-v1n10.pdf
>> 
>> Note the reference to the "Pixie Verter".  It is a little cheap circuit
>> board that takes the composite signal and modulates it onto channel 3.  You
>> will find references to the Pixie-Verter in a number of publications and
>> user manuals for early video boards.  The Matrox and the Cromemco Dazzler
>> and the Ohio Scientific documentation all reference it.  David Ahl in his
>> "Saga Of A System" magazine article references it.  With that, a TV, video
>> board, RF modulator and a parallel keyboard were much cheaper than any
>> serial terminal back then.  The RF modulator was separate from the video
>> board (usually hung on the back of the TV) for noise reasons.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: W2HX via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org]
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2023 3:39 PM
>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
>> Cc: W2HX 
>> Subject: [cctalk] Silly question about S-100 and video monitors
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I recently acquired an S-100 computer, and it came with a video card and a
>> keyboard (3rd party products, not originally equipped with these). I am
>> trying to figure out the benefits of having a video card and keyboard vs
>> just using a serial port and terminal. Certainly if the video card supported
>> graphics, that would be a reason to go that route over a terminal. As for
>> the keyboard, ok-maybe you need specific keys for a specific application.
>> But I don't understand the video monitor. I could understand maybe if there
>> was an RF modulator so that you could use a standard TV. That would save the
>> builder some money. But this computer just provides composite.
>> 
>> Other than graphics (and maybe some special function keys for an application
>> on a keyboard), why would an S-100 builder in those days opt to buy a video
>> card instead of a terminal?
>> 
>> Thanks for the bandwidth.
>> 
>> 73 Eugene W2HX
>> Subscribe to my Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com
> 

[cctalk] Re: Silly question about S-100 and video monitors

[Wayne S via cctalk]

I think you might be confusing a law argument with a logic argument.  🤓 The 2 
are not related.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 31, 2023, at 21:00, Tony Duell via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Aug 31, 2023 at 9:53 PM Chris Zach via cctalk
>  wrote:
>> 
>> Which is weird, since Radio Shack was renowned for putting schematic
>> diagrams on so many of their products. My Flavoradio still has the
>> schematic on it if a transistor goes bad
> 
> And they  would sell spare parts and service manuals for just about
> everything they sold.
> 
> Their pocket computers were of course essentially re-badged Sharp and
> Casio machines. Getting the service manuals from the original
> companies was moderately harder than getting defence secrets. Getting
> the manuals from Tandy/Radio Shack was simply a matter of ordering
> them at the local shop.
> 
> -tony

[cctalk] Re: Friden (was Silly question about S-100 and video monitors)

[Wayne S via cctalk]

What kinda kits we talking about?
Heathkit kind or the kind you could get in popular electronics? 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 3, 2023, at 17:01, Adrian Godwin via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Sep 4, 2023 at 12:33 AM ben via cctalk 
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I guess the era of kit building is long gone.
>> 
>> 
> Sadly, yes. The cost of bagging up all the components is large compared
> with the automated assembly cost, and many people are unwilling to do
> surface mount manually. Through-hole is possible for some designs but very
> restricting.
> 
> What may be feasible is having all the surface mounted parts assembled onto
> a pcb and leaving through-hole parts such as pots, connectors etc. to the
> builder. The SMT guys don't like doing that part.

[cctalk] Re: Friden (was Silly question about S-100 and video monitors)

[Wayne S via cctalk]

I was thinking of the parts kits that was offered by sone arrangement between 
the author of a construction article and some parts house. Was handy if you 
really wanted to build the device.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 3, 2023, at 20:15, ben via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> > What kinda kits we talking about?
> > Heathkit kind or the kind you could get in popular electronics?
> 
> 
> http://www.sworld.com.au/steven/educ-8/
> 
> Give the other magazines a chance. :)
> 
> I always looked a the 1/2 page ads.
> Get a keyboard $99. 1 cent sale on 7400's. Get a second one for just a penny. 
> 4096 x 36 bit core , untested $89.
> Printing terminal $399+ $75 shipping in the Continental USA.
> NOW I have the time and money,
> the surplus is GONE.
> Ben.
> 
> 

[cctalk] Re: NewtonOS

[Wayne S via cctalk]

I have an ipad 3 and it was absolutely great. Everything worked well on it 
until apple 🍎 made IOS 10 which doesn’t run on it. Then, gradually, some apps, 
like Amazon Prime TV, were upgraded to use 10 and above and simply stopped 
working. 
I probably won’t buy another Ipad just because of that. 
Liem, sorry about your forearm. Get well and keep writing ✍️ 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 8, 2023, at 11:14, Liam Proven via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 30 Aug 2023 at 02:59, Wayne S via cctalk  
> wrote:
>> 
>> I used a newton and still have it a box.
> 
> I have 2 of them myself.
> 
>> It was heavy and very slow. Graffiti didn’t work very well either.
> 
> The OMP was.
> 
> I later bought a Newton 2100 and it's a very different beast. It's
> quite usable by comparison.
> 
> Last year I played with a friends ReMarkable e-ink tablet, and I
> nearly wept. It is so utterly braindead by comparison. We have gone
> backwards, not forwards.
> 
> -- 
> Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
> Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
> Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
> IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884
> Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053

[cctalk] Re: NewtonOS

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Re: PDF
I use a free app Pdfreader to view and usually just email the pdfs i want to 
read and save them that way. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 8, 2023, at 11:48, Liam Proven via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 19:23, Wayne S  wrote:
>> 
>> I have an ipad 3 and it was absolutely great. Everything worked well on it 
>> until apple 🍎 made IOS 10 which doesn’t run on it. Then, gradually, some 
>> apps, like Amazon Prime TV, were upgraded to use 10 and above and simply 
>> stopped working.
> 
> It is funny you should say that: I have one too, and just today, I dug
> it out of its pouch for the first time since July.
> 
> I had left it on! But it was in airplane mode, and so still had 15%
> battery. Amazing.
> 
> I am trying to work out how to put my assortment of PDFs onto it so I
> can use it as an ebook reader. This is... not trivial.
> 
> It was my mother's. When it was no longer able to run Skype, I bought
> her an iPad 5th Gen instead. This is the first model with the iPad Air
> form-factor.
> 
> Her eyesight is very bad now -- retinal haemorrhage plus macular
> degeneration -- so then I got her a first-model iPad Pro. But, to my
> surprise, she prefers the smaller one, as it's much lighter to hold.
> 
> I asked for and was given the cast-off iPad 3.
> 
>> I probably won’t buy another Ipad just because of that.
> 
> Well, I see your point. The device is badly crippled now, yes.
> Especially as I preferred iOS 9 -- the newer ones have a lot of bloat,
> like window tiling and pop-up floating windows, that just confuse her.
> 
> I can see being aggrieved by the discontinuation of support.
> Personally I don't like the things much but I am trying to find a use
> for this old one. But if I _liked_ it, that's different.
> 
> FWIW I always buy them used, from these guys: https://webuy.com/ The
> company was founded by a friend of mine, sadly long dead now.
> 
>> Liem, sorry about your forearm. Get well and keep writing ✍️
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> -- 
> Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
> Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
> Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
> IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884
> Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053

[cctalk] Re: NewtonOS

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Re: ipad 3 lack of support. 
What gets me the most is that Apple doesn’t seem to allow old versions of app 
on the store anymore. Seems that they force developers to use the newer SDK 
which only supports IOS 10 and above. Hate That with a passion.

Take care.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 8, 2023, at 12:15, Wayne S  wrote:
> 
> Re: PDF
> I use a free app Pdfreader to view and usually just email the pdfs i want to 
> read and save them that way. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Sep 8, 2023, at 11:48, Liam Proven via cctalk  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Fri, 8 Sept 2023 at 19:23, Wayne S  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have an ipad 3 and it was absolutely great. Everything worked well on it 
>>> until apple 🍎 made IOS 10 which doesn’t run on it. Then, gradually, some 
>>> apps, like Amazon Prime TV, were upgraded to use 10 and above and simply 
>>> stopped working.
>> 
>> It is funny you should say that: I have one too, and just today, I dug
>> it out of its pouch for the first time since July.
>> 
>> I had left it on! But it was in airplane mode, and so still had 15%
>> battery. Amazing.
>> 
>> I am trying to work out how to put my assortment of PDFs onto it so I
>> can use it as an ebook reader. This is... not trivial.
>> 
>> It was my mother's. When it was no longer able to run Skype, I bought
>> her an iPad 5th Gen instead. This is the first model with the iPad Air
>> form-factor.
>> 
>> Her eyesight is very bad now -- retinal haemorrhage plus macular
>> degeneration -- so then I got her a first-model iPad Pro. But, to my
>> surprise, she prefers the smaller one, as it's much lighter to hold.
>> 
>> I asked for and was given the cast-off iPad 3.
>> 
>>> I probably won’t buy another Ipad just because of that.
>> 
>> Well, I see your point. The device is badly crippled now, yes.
>> Especially as I preferred iOS 9 -- the newer ones have a lot of bloat,
>> like window tiling and pop-up floating windows, that just confuse her.
>> 
>> I can see being aggrieved by the discontinuation of support.
>> Personally I don't like the things much but I am trying to find a use
>> for this old one. But if I _liked_ it, that's different.
>> 
>> FWIW I always buy them used, from these guys: https://webuy.com/ The
>> company was founded by a friend of mine, sadly long dead now.
>> 
>>> Liem, sorry about your forearm. Get well and keep writing ✍️
>> 
>> Thank you!
>> 
>> -- 
>> Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
>> Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
>> Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
>> IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884
>> Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053

[cctalk] Re: 8" DSDD to USB MSD?

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 8, 2023, at 13:15, Fred Cisin via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 8 Sep 2023, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I just bought a very clean, DSDD 8" disk drive off eBay and it has a 50p
>> connector which I guess is the common Shugart type? I also found a 50p->
>> 34p adaptor PCB design someone documented online.
> 
> very few of the lines need to be rearraanged, so you can just twist a few 
> wires in a cable.  One exception is that if you need the TG43 signal for 
> writing, then you will need additional circuitry.
> 
>> I haven't delved much into floppy formats (high level or low level) but I'm
>> somewhat familiar with filesystems from FAT12. My ultimate goal is to
>> create an open-source USB

>> adaptor that reads/writes the contents of an 8"
>> disk but presents itself to an OS as a Mass Storage Device (block device).
>> Is such a thing possible?
> 
> Sure.  Ine the very early days of external USB floppies, there existed a rare 
> few in which the circuitry was a general purpose FDC.  All currently produced 
> ones are locked in to only supporting a couple of PC 3.5" formats.  Look for 
> "mode 3", which is support for the NEC format, which is compatible with 8" 
> formats, IFF you can modify the hardware to work.
> 
>> I once created a terrible custom format for storing data on a flash chip
>> which required no low-level format, but I expect a magnetic disk needs
>> headers/trailers to know when a track starts/stops so it can skip around.
> 
> Yes.  It is called "IBM format", but that is confusing, since it is talking 
> about the track structure that IBM designed (3740?), NOT about IBM PC (which 
> does use that structure)
> 
>> I checked out the KyroFlux website and it seems there are dozens of formats
>> that were used for 8" disks - is there a favorite format among the
>> community that allows full use of a 1.2MB 8" disk?
> 
> Not everybody will agree, but, . . .
> NEC modified their 3.5" drives to be 360RPM, same as their 5.25" 1.2M drives, 
> and 8" drives.  Thus, they used the same format on all three sizes!
> 
> http://www.xenosoft.com/fmts.html#8
> 
> 
> --
> Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: 8" DSDD to USB MSD?

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 8, 2023, at 13:16, Wayne S  wrote:
> 
>> but presents itself to an OS as a Mass Storage Device (block device).

Anders, for what practical purpose would you do that? 
It’s not like there’s so many 8 inch floppies around to make it feasible. You 
would have to have a LOT of intelligence in the Usb interface due to the 
different physical formats let alone the software formats. 
It would be difficult.

[cctalk] Re: Concorde cabin display technology?

[Wayne S via cctalk]

You can find some manuals here, but probably not what you want…

WWW.FLIGHT-MANUALS-ONLINE.COM


Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 16, 2023, at 09:34, Martin Bishop via cctalk  
wrote:

The UK Concorde heritage sites may provide contacts / answers

e.g. https://www.heritageconcorde.com/duxford

Martin

-Original Message-
From: Shoppa, Tim via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: 16 September 2023 16:53
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Cc: Shoppa, Tim 
Subject: [cctalk] Concorde cabin display technology?

Not quite computer tech but I figure this is the best place to ask:

Does anyone recognize the display tech that was used on the Concorde's in-cabin 
display?

Examples:

https://samchui.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/CON15.jpg

https://samchui.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/CON16.jpg


The display had fully-formed digits and letters, and showed either Mach and 
Feet, or Temp and MPH. Some pictures show the display in green and others show 
it in orange - which of course were popular monochrome CRT colors, yet the 
display looks too "flat" to be a couple CRT's. Those colors were also popular 
for Electroluminiscent displays which matches the evident "flatness" but I'm 
not sure I've seen any EL's with fully formed digits like this with no visible 
segmentation?

I want to guess it was individual digits back-projected - which was a popular 
control-theater display tech at the end of the 20th century - but I can't rule 
out, say, really well-done edge-lit character plates. In any event there 
doesn't seem to be any visible jitter up and down between digits that I might 
expect with either of those technologies.

The "FEET" display in the above-referenced JPG's shows some artifacts at the 
left and right edges which might be a clue?

Some pics of the BA Concorde interior had a simple 15-segment and 7-segment 
green LED display. Don't need help with that one 🙂.

Tim N3QE

[cctalk] Re: IBM VM "CMS" tape format

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Might be IBM CMS Conversational Monitor System (CMS, originally Cambridge 
Monitor System). Used it in 1977. Don’t know about the format though.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 20, 2023, at 17:24, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  wrote:

Group,

Ive got a tape here from what I believe to be a VM system.  The
structure is unknown to me, although I can possibly take a stab at it.
Lots of data between tapemarks that seems to consist of a number of
records that start out something like this (translated from EBCIDC):

  02 43 4d 53 46 30 30 30  31 31 32 30 35 31 31 32  |.CMSF00011205112|
0010  34 37 30 37 36 30 31 32  32 32 31 31 30 31 31 31  |4707601222110111|

Another example:

  02 43 4d 53 46 44 41 54  41 20 5f 4e 55 4c 4c 5f  |.CMSFDATA _NULL_|
0010  3b 20 20 20 20 20 20 20  20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20  |;   |
0020  20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20  20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20  ||

The data itself appears to be a bunch of 80 character card images.

I found a mention on the old yahoo groups H390-VM discussions, but no
clarity was ever shed on the subject.

Does anyone know about this tape format?

--Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Teletypes for sale - redux with pics on google drive and contact info.

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Mike you should post this on the classic computer discord under teletypes. 
Do you want an invite to the discord or do you already have one?
The teletype discord is fairly active lately.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 29, 2023, at 06:11, Mike Katz via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> Hey folks. I need to re-home a bunch of cool old Teletype Corporation
> machines. Working condition unknown, and also have some spare parts. I
> am not out to make a mint, so make offer! They seem mostly complete, in
> varying condition. Some are nicer than others. They all worked when
> stored (years ago) The following need to find new homes:
> TT Model 28 ASR (3 of these)
> TT Model 28 KSR (2 of these)
> TT Model 28 RO (2 of these)
> Extra Model 28 Parts
> TT Model 28 Floor Standing Paper Punch
> TT Model 32 Baudot
> TT Model 35 KSR (heavy duty version of the ASR-33)
> TT Model 35 ASR (Floor stand heavy duty, 2 of these, one Telex)
> TT Model 40 Dataspeed
> Teletype manuals and documentation for each model
> Tell your friends! Delivery is possible. I can assist with loading.
> Message me for details. Located in the Midwest (Missouri)
> 
> Pictures: 
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1iWKntZTwws1Qdk6JPEh4f7BjbP0of62t?usp=sharing
> 
> Contact:
> 
> Mat at Mobile Techinical Services, (217) 690-9239 (mobiletechs...@gmail.com)
> 

[cctalk] Re: Trouble with a Samsung monitor

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Probably one of the pulse xformers that drives the backlights. Buy a new 
monitor, they seem to be about what it would cost to repair it.

https://www.samsung.com/us/business/computing/monitors/flat/27--led-monitor-with-borderless-design-lf27t350fhnxza/


Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 3, 2023, at 13:44, Van Snyder via cctalk  wrote:

I have a formerly-gorgeous 27-inch Samsung monitor:

Model LF27T350FHNXZA
Serial 0AS1HCNR904588L
S/W M-T3527FGGA-1006.1

that now has a minor defect. The "wallpaper" has a dim stripe about
1/6th of the screen width, top-to-bottom, about 1/6th from the right
edge, where the blue band appears when I run its self test. Windows
display almost normally, with a little bit of dimness in that band for
some colors. White is fine, black is gray,  Changing the wallpaper
doesn't change it. Fiddling with its internal settings doesn't change
it. Photo at http://vandykle.mynetgear.com/Samsung-27.jpg.

Is this the sort of thing that can be repaired at reasonable cost, or
should I just live with it until the monitor fails altogether?

[cctalk] Re: Axil 220/245 PSU

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Does this help?

https://allpinouts.org/pinouts/connectors/power_supply/sun-sparcengine-motherboard-power-supply/


Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 31, 2023, at 13:48, Alan Perry via cctalk  wrote:

Does anyone here have a running Axil 220 or 245 (Sun SPARCstation LX clone)? 
My 220 has a dead PSU and I am trying to get it working with a modern PC PSU. 
But I don’t know the pinout for the power connector.

While the power connector is the same as used by Sun, the pinout and, aside 
from +5V and GND, the wire color scheme are different. I have identified 3 of 
the 6 wire colors and 7 of the 10 pins. The wire color scheme seemed to be a 
match for early sun4c but I just found something that suggests a couple wire 
colors are used differently.

I have found that black is ground, red is +5V, and yellow is +12V. White, 
orange, and blue are TBD. A marking on the PSU board suggests white is -12V. 
Blue and orange seem to only used by a daughter board centered on a LM339 chip. 
But, as a software guy, I can’t tell what it does.

Anyone here have any insight here that might help me?

alan

[cctalk] Re: Axil 220/245 PSU

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Also a link to the lx service manual

http://www.obsolyte.com/sun_lx/sparcLX.pdf

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 31, 2023, at 14:37, Wayne S  wrote:

 Does this help?

https://allpinouts.org/pinouts/connectors/power_supply/sun-sparcengine-motherboard-power-supply/


Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 31, 2023, at 13:48, Alan Perry via cctalk  wrote:

Does anyone here have a running Axil 220 or 245 (Sun SPARCstation LX clone)? 
My 220 has a dead PSU and I am trying to get it working with a modern PC PSU. 
But I don’t know the pinout for the power connector.

While the power connector is the same as used by Sun, the pinout and, aside 
from +5V and GND, the wire color scheme are different. I have identified 3 of 
the 6 wire colors and 7 of the 10 pins. The wire color scheme seemed to be a 
match for early sun4c but I just found something that suggests a couple wire 
colors are used differently.

I have found that black is ground, red is +5V, and yellow is +12V. White, 
orange, and blue are TBD. A marking on the PSU board suggests white is -12V. 
Blue and orange seem to only used by a daughter board centered on a LM339 chip. 
But, as a software guy, I can’t tell what it does.

Anyone here have any insight here that might help me?

alan

[cctalk] Re: Anyone have a D1 deck?

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Do those tapes need special handling ? Are they shedding? Chuck any experience 
with them?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 31, 2023, at 13:51, The Doctor via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> On Saturday, December 30th, 2023 at 23:24, Chuck Guzis via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> The Bosch unit may be very difficult to find. Will a Sony
>> DVR-1000/2000/2100 do the same job for those tapes? At least a few of
>> those seem to be around.
> 
> None of us are sure.  The Sony DVR units have been pretty easy to find but
> the possibility of messing up any of the tapes even as a test ties everything
> in a knot.  I know a few folks are asking around the A/V offices of a couple
> of colleges to see if they have any suitable playback units but so far nothing
> yet (due to semester break).
> 
> The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510]
> WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/
> Don't be mean. You don't have to be mean.
> 

[cctalk] Re: Axil 220/245 PSU

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Maybe ask in the Classic Computer discord? Very knowledgeable people there.



Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 31, 2023, at 15:39, Alan Perry via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> The really frustrating thing is that I found a Usenet thread from 1998, 
> after Axil shut down, where someone asked a similar question about Axil 
> 220/245 PSUs and a former Axil employee seems to have sent the person 
> documents that he needed to get his system going. Sadly those documents 
> haven't managed to make their way to bitsavers or archive.org.
> 
> alan
> 
>> On 12/31/23 3:33 PM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote:
>> Not really. As I said, Sun and Axil, while using the same 12-pin power 
>> connector, put the pins in different positions and color code the wires 
>> differently. For the 220, Axil also sourced the PSU from a different vendor 
>> and it is a completely different size (almost the same size as a flexatx 
>> psu). Also, only 10 of the 12 pins are used.
>> 
>> The Sony PSU used in pizza box sun4c system changed from black 
>> (GND)/red(+5V)/yellow(+12V)/blue(-12V)/orange(+5V POR) to 
>> black/red/blue/brown/gray. The sun4c lunchboxes used the same connector 
>> except they started call the orange/gray pin SENS (is that the same as POR 
>> in Sun's usage?). The sun4c lunchbox scheme continued through the sun4m 
>> lunchboxes. The sun4m pizzaboxes went to an 18-pin power connector with the 
>> same wire color scheme, except gray became "PwrOff"/"Poff".
>> 
>> The PSU in my Axil 320 (a SS10/SS20 clone) uses the 18-pin connector and a 
>> color scheme similar to the SS10/20 one but I haven't checked all of the 
>> pins to see if they are completely the same.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 12/31/23 2:44 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
>>> Also a link to the lx service manual
>>> 
>>> http://www.obsolyte.com/sun_lx/sparcLX.pdf
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 31, 2023, at 14:37, Wayne S  wrote:
>>> 
>>>  Does this help?
>>> 
>>> https://allpinouts.org/pinouts/connectors/power_supply/sun-sparcengine-motherboard-power-supply/
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 31, 2023, at 13:48, Alan Perry via cctalk  
>>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Does anyone here have a running Axil 220 or 245 (Sun SPARCstation LX 
>>> clone)? My 220 has a dead PSU and I am trying to get it working with a 
>>> modern PC PSU. But I don’t know the pinout for the power connector.
>>> 
>>> While the power connector is the same as used by Sun, the pinout and, aside 
>>> from +5V and GND, the wire color scheme are different. I have identified 3 
>>> of the 6 wire colors and 7 of the 10 pins. The wire color scheme seemed to 
>>> be a match for early sun4c but I just found something that suggests a 
>>> couple wire colors are used differently.
>>> 
>>> I have found that black is ground, red is +5V, and yellow is +12V. White, 
>>> orange, and blue are TBD. A marking on the PSU board suggests white is 
>>> -12V. Blue and orange seem to only used by a daughter board centered on a 
>>> LM339 chip. But, as a software guy, I can’t tell what it does.
>>> 
>>> Anyone here have any insight here that might help me?
>>> 
>>> alan
>>> 

[cctalk] Re: Axil 220/245 PSU

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Here’s the link.

https://discord.gg/<https://discord.gg/9g5bTAZe>9g5bTAZe<https://discord.gg/9g5bTAZe>



Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 31, 2023, at 17:55, mark audacity romberg via cctalk 
 wrote:

How does one access the Classic Computer discord?

On Dec 31, 2023, at 18:03, Wayne S via cctalk  wrote:

Maybe ask in the Classic Computer discord? Very knowledgeable people there.