[cctalk] Re: M7846 RX11 Unibus floppy controller board documentation?
On Wed, 18 Oct 2023, Tom Hunter wrote: I was unable to locate schematics and/or a maintenance manual for the Unibus M7846 RX11 floppy controller board. On our FTP server ;-) ftp://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dec/pdp11/RX11_EngineeringDrawings_13Jun1975.pdf Christian
[cctalk] Re: M7846 RX11 Unibus floppy controller board documentation?
Thank you Christian !!! Best regards Tom On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 3:41 PM Christian Corti via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Wed, 18 Oct 2023, Tom Hunter wrote: > > I was unable to locate schematics and/or a maintenance manual for the > > Unibus M7846 RX11 floppy controller board. > > On our FTP server ;-) > > > ftp://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dec/pdp11/RX11_EngineeringDrawings_13Jun1975.pdf > > > Christian >
[cctalk] PDP11 and Ultrix 11
Hello all, does someone have a SCSI disc image of Ultrix 11 for a QBus based (11/73) PDP11. A.
[cctalk] Re: PDP11 and Ultrix 11
On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 at 09:56, hupfadekroua via cctalk wrote: > Hello all, > > does someone have a SCSI disc image of Ultrix 11 for a QBus based (11/73) > PDP11. > Ultrix-11 doesn't support SCSI disks, as far as I am aware. What hardware are you trying to use? In any case, you can easily use SIMH to install 3.1 (or your preferred version) and then transfer that to real hardware. -Henry
[cctalk] Re: PDP11 and Ultrix 11
On 10/18/2023 10:00 AM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 at 09:56, hupfadekroua via cctalk wrote: Hello all, does someone have a SCSI disc image of Ultrix 11 for a QBus based (11/73) PDP11. Ultrix-11 doesn't support SCSI disks, as far as I am aware. What hardware are you trying to use? In any case, you can easily use SIMH to install 3.1 (or your preferred version) and then transfer that to real hardware. PDP-11 SCSI Modules emulate MSCP and RA disks and work fine with Ultrix-11. bill
[cctalk] Re: PDP11 and Ultrix 11
On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 at 10:16, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > On 10/18/2023 10:00 AM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: > > On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 at 09:56, hupfadekroua via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > > wrote: > > > >> Hello all, > >> > >> does someone have a SCSI disc image of Ultrix 11 for a QBus based > (11/73) > >> PDP11. > >> > > > > Ultrix-11 doesn't support SCSI disks, as far as I am aware. What > hardware > > are you trying to use? In any case, you can easily use SIMH to install > 3.1 > > (or your preferred version) and then transfer that to real hardware. > > PDP-11 SCSI Modules emulate MSCP and RA disks and work fine with > Ultrix-11. > Interesting. My Dilog DQ614 (ST506 emulating RL02s) specifically does not work with Ultrix, but does work with 2.xBSD and v7, so I would not necessarily assume that a third-party board was going to work with Ultrix-11's drivers. -Henry
[cctalk] Re: PDP11 and Ultrix 11
> On Oct 18, 2023, at 10:20 AM, Henry Bent via cctalk > wrote: > > On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 at 10:16, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> >> >> On 10/18/2023 10:00 AM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: >>> On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 at 09:56, hupfadekroua via cctalk < >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> >>> wrote: >>> Hello all, does someone have a SCSI disc image of Ultrix 11 for a QBus based >> (11/73) PDP11. >>> >>> Ultrix-11 doesn't support SCSI disks, as far as I am aware. What >> hardware >>> are you trying to use? In any case, you can easily use SIMH to install >> 3.1 >>> (or your preferred version) and then transfer that to real hardware. >> >> PDP-11 SCSI Modules emulate MSCP and RA disks and work fine with >> Ultrix-11. >> > > Interesting. My Dilog DQ614 (ST506 emulating RL02s) specifically does not > work with Ultrix, but does work with 2.xBSD and v7, so I would not > necessarily assume that a third-party board was going to work with > Ultrix-11's drivers. There are two possible issues. One is that SCSI is a packet oriented storage command/response system similar to MSCP but different. So the kind of controllers Bill mentioned are essentiallly translators between the two protocols. If what you have is a native SCSI controller -- one that exposes the actual SCSI commands -- then that requires an entirely different driver because that isn't MSCP. If you have an MSCP translator type controller, but the translation is poorly done, you might end up with it failing for some operating systems. That's not too unlikely given that the MSCP spec was for a long time a DEC confidential document, so third parties had to reverse engineer things (and dodge DEC lawyers). paul
[cctalk] Re: PDP11 and Ultrix 11
The EMULEX UC07 SCSI Adapter manual ( http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/emulex/UC0751001-F_UC07_Feb90.pdf) says: "Ultrix-11 V3.0 and above" Ulli Am Mi., 18. Okt. 2023 um 16:32 Uhr schrieb Paul Koning via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org>: > > > > On Oct 18, 2023, at 10:20 AM, Henry Bent via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 at 10:16, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> On 10/18/2023 10:00 AM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: > >>> On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 at 09:56, hupfadekroua via cctalk < > >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> > >>> wrote: > >>> > Hello all, > > does someone have a SCSI disc image of Ultrix 11 for a QBus based > >> (11/73) > PDP11. > > >>> > >>> Ultrix-11 doesn't support SCSI disks, as far as I am aware. What > >> hardware > >>> are you trying to use? In any case, you can easily use SIMH to install > >> 3.1 > >>> (or your preferred version) and then transfer that to real hardware. > >> > >> PDP-11 SCSI Modules emulate MSCP and RA disks and work fine with > >> Ultrix-11. > >> > > > > Interesting. My Dilog DQ614 (ST506 emulating RL02s) specifically does > not > > work with Ultrix, but does work with 2.xBSD and v7, so I would not > > necessarily assume that a third-party board was going to work with > > Ultrix-11's drivers. > > There are two possible issues. One is that SCSI is a packet oriented > storage command/response system similar to MSCP but different. So the kind > of controllers Bill mentioned are essentiallly translators between the two > protocols. > > If what you have is a native SCSI controller -- one that exposes the > actual SCSI commands -- then that requires an entirely different driver > because that isn't MSCP. > > If you have an MSCP translator type controller, but the translation is > poorly done, you might end up with it failing for some operating systems. > That's not too unlikely given that the MSCP spec was for a long time a DEC > confidential document, so third parties had to reverse engineer things (and > dodge DEC lawyers). > > paul > >
[cctalk] PDP11 Dilog SQ706a SCSI Controller
Hello all, are there some experiences to install as well as to configure a Dilog SQ706a QBus SCSI controller in a PDP11/73 successfully? The controller in question is working properly, that's executing the self as well as the host DMA connection tests successfully. The format procedure of a physical and of an emulated SCSI drive will be executed with success also. But how to configure the Dilog SQ706a as well as the 11/73 properly, so that the SCSI drive can be accessed as DU0. I'm using an SCSI RSX image on a ZULU SCSI emulator inherited from an 11/73 running successfully using a native DEC SCSI controller. I don't find any successful procedure on the web beside the manuals on bitsavers, which only can be seen as examples. A.
[cctalk] Re: PDP11 Dilog SQ706a SCSI Controller
On 10/18/2023 2:26 PM, hupfadekroua via cctalk wrote: I think you have to look at how the ZULU SCSI emulator is setup. There you will be able to map the RSX image to unit #0, which would appear as DU0. It maybe that the RSX image is meant to boot from some other unit, say DU4. Its possible you can't boot it from DU0. There is a manual for the Dilog controller in bitsavers, it appears you can attach a terminal to the board to configure it. What native DEC SCSI controller? RQZX1? Hello all, are there some experiences to install as well as to configure a Dilog SQ706a QBus SCSI controller in a PDP11/73 successfully? The controller in question is working properly, that's executing the self as well as the host DMA connection tests successfully. The format procedure of a physical and of an emulated SCSI drive will be executed with success also. But how to configure the Dilog SQ706a as well as the 11/73 properly, so that the SCSI drive can be accessed as DU0. I'm using an SCSI RSX image on a ZULU SCSI emulator inherited from an 11/73 running successfully using a native DEC SCSI controller. I don't find any successful procedure on the web beside the manuals on bitsavers, which only can be seen as examples. A.
[cctalk] Re: PDP11 Dilog SQ706a SCSI Controller
On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 at 14:27, hupfadekroua via cctalk wrote: > Hello all, > > are there some experiences to install as well as to configure a Dilog > SQ706a QBus SCSI controller in a PDP11/73 successfully? > > The controller in question is working properly, that's executing the self > as well as the host DMA connection tests successfully. > > The format procedure of a physical and of an emulated SCSI drive will be > executed with success also. > > But how to configure the Dilog SQ706a as well as the 11/73 properly, so > that the SCSI drive can be accessed as DU0. > > I'm using an SCSI RSX image on a ZULU SCSI emulator inherited from an 11/73 > running successfully using a native DEC SCSI controller. > > I don't find any successful procedure on the web beside the manuals on > bitsavers, which only can be seen as examples. > > A. > http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dilog/SQ706A/2120-0184-E_SQ706A_Jan90.pdf and/or http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dilog/SQ706A/SQ706A_SCSI_MSCP_Disk_Controller_Oct89.pdf should give you what you need for setup. It looks like the controller maps SCSI devices as-is to MSCP devices, so you'll probably want to set up your SCSI emulator with the geometry from a DEC drive that Ultrix-11 understands - I believe that 3.1 has built-in support for the RA60, RA80, and RA81 - so as to avoid having to specify a custom drive type. This also means that you could do an installation in SIMH to the disk of your choice, and then copy that disk image to the SCSI emulator's disk. There isn't really going to be a hand-holding walkthrough for this, if that's what you're looking for. https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/DEC/Fred-Ultrix3/setup-3.1.txt will walk you through the basics of installing Ultrix. I'd suggest getting SIMH setup to match your hardware as closely as possible, install Ultrix-11 on that, get comfortable using it, and only then worry about moving it to real hardware. If you have specific questions we can certainly try to answer them, but there isn't going to be a walkthrough to install Ultrix on your particular hardware setup, and certainly not one to walk you through setting up the Dilog board. -Henry
[cctalk] Livestream 10/21/23 - Liza Loop, Byron Stout, Wil Lindsay & Jim Hall - VCF's YouTube channel
This Saturday, Oct. 21, 2023 at 6:30PM EDT, we will livestream to VCF's YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/@vcfederation) a talk with Liza Loop, Byron Stout, Wil Lindsay and Jim Hall. We will be talking about Educating today's children with vintage computers. We will take questions from the chat part of YouTube. Future livestreams: 11/4 - Jim Hall - Linux like Unix 11/11 - Liza Loop, Cynthia Solomon, Brian Silverman & Margaret Morabito - Educating students with vintage computers over the decades. I hope to see you there!
[cctalk] Re: PDP11 and Ultrix 11
On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 7:32 AM Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > If you have an MSCP translator type controller, but the translation is poorly > done, you might end up with it failing for some operating systems. That's > not too unlikely given that the MSCP spec was for a long time a DEC > confidential document, so third parties had to reverse engineer things (and > dodge DEC lawyers). > > paul I have at least one third-party vendor QBUS MSCP SCSI controller which has a sticker on the PCB which says "Licensed under U.S. Letters Patent 4,449,182" Which is of course the DEC MSCP patent: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/dsa/mscp/MSCP_Patent_4449182.pdf So I guess at least in that case the vendor did play along with DEC lawyers.
[cctalk] 11/15, 11/20 systems and parts, more
I am working on a deal which includes several PDP11/15 or 20s. I will be looking at them next week and hope to get more details. I will look for exact model numbers and configuration.At least 2 of them have non DEC silkscreens on the front panel. Also a selection of 11/05 and 11/10 including 5 1/4 box, BA11-D, and BA11-K units. If you are interested in a box or parts please email me off list. Thanks, Paul
[cctalk] Re: PDP11 and Ultrix 11
> On Oct 18, 2023, at 09:56, hupfadekroua via cctalk > wrote: > > Hello all, > > does someone have a SCSI disc image of Ultrix 11 for a QBus based (11/73) > PDP11. > > A. I have sitting in front of me a PDP-11/83 running ULTRIX-11 v3.1 on MSCP SCSI via the CMD CQD-200 controller. It’s working beautifully for me, pointed at a SCSI2SD with “drives” around the size of an RA81. I just installed it last week from a replica original distro tape I made. Happy to send the image to you. You can boot the generic kernel and run /.setup/setup to reconfigure it to your hardware needs, recompile kernel, etc. If you have the means to use it, I could also make you a physical distribution tape so you can experience a real virgin install in all its proper glory. —Jake West Bridgewater, Pennsylvania
