[cctalk] Re: VAXstation 100 ROM image
On Sun, 2022-09-04 22:19:29 -0700, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: > Reviving a year old thread, did anyone get around to dumping the > VAXstation 100 firmware? > > I don't see it where I looked here: > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vax/vaxstation100/ > http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/DEC/ I don't have a VS100, so I cannot dump the ROMs. But if anybody has ROMs to read but no reading device, I'd offer to dump those. MfG, JBG --
[cctalk] Re: Flipping an 8" diskette
On Thu, 1 Sep 2022, jim stephens wrote: I've never heard of anyone making 8" Flippy Diskettes. BASF had the FlexyDisk 2N. They are intented for single-sided drives and can be flipped. They have two index hole cutouts. Christian
[cctalk] Re: You have Apple Lisa 1 "twiggy" system to trade for my IBM 5100 Portable PC?
On Sun, 4 Sep 2022, jim stephens wrote: On 9/3/22 17:38, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Well, it ain't in the 5150/5160 range! The 5100 new was $10K to $20K. I had a 5100 that a dentist had bought as soon as it came out and he added the floppy drives and printer. It was a direct IBM buy for 31000. Are you sure about that? The 5100 doesn't support floppy drives. And I've never heard of third-party drives (that would need IMFs, too) for the 5100. Christian
[cctalk] Re: You have Apple Lisa 1 "twiggy" system to trade for my IBM 5100 Portable PC?
Well, it ain't in the 5150/5160 range! The 5100 new was $10K to $20K. On Sun, 4 Sep 2022, jim stephens wrote: I had a 5100 that a dentist had bought as soon as it came out and he added the floppy drives and printer. It was a direct IBM buy for 31000. On Mon, 5 Sep 2022, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: Are you sure about that? The 5100 doesn't support floppy drives. And I've never heard of third-party drives (that would need IMFs, too) for the 5100. $3100 is about what IBM charged for a fully loaded 5150. (PC) THAT is not a 5100! $3100 for a 5100 would have been a bargain. A 5150 would not be worth as much as a Lisa. A 5100 would be. (or at least in a similar range)
[cctalk] Re: You have Apple Lisa 1 "twiggy" system to trade for my IBM 5100 Portable PC?
On Mon, 5 Sep 2022, Fred Cisin wrote: Well, it ain't in the 5150/5160 range! The 5100 new was $10K to $20K. On Sun, 4 Sep 2022, jim stephens wrote: I had a 5100 that a dentist had bought as soon as it came out and he added the floppy drives and printer. It was a direct IBM buy for 31000. ^ On Mon, 5 Sep 2022, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: Are you sure about that? The 5100 doesn't support floppy drives. And I've never heard of third-party drives (that would need IMFs, too) for the 5100. $3100 is about what IBM charged for a fully loaded 5150. (PC) THAT is not a 5100! $3100 for a 5100 would have been a bargain. We are neither talking about the 5150, nor about $3100 but $31,000 for a 5100 (see above). Or did I miss something? Christian
[cctalk] Re: VAXstation 100 ROM image
Reviving a year old thread, did anyone get around to dumping the VAXstation 100 firmware? I gave my VAXstation 100 system unit to Dave McGuire last year (I didn't need it since I lost interest in UNIBUS sized hobby equipment). Perhaps he could make a copy of its ROMs. -- Lee K. Gleason N5ZZMR Control-G Consultants lee.glea...@comcast.net
[cctalk] Re: Next Week: VCF Midwest
On 9/4/22 18:20, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: I will be at the VCFMW both days. I am bringing a bunch of stuff to sell. I have a big box of Q-bus boards from my Micro-VAX II system. I also have two ESDI disks that have VMS 4.7 on them, and an Emulex QD21 controller. I'm hoping somebody at the Fest can image the disk that was last used. UGH, I must have DREAMT I had the QD21 that I had used before on these disks. I can't find it now, but I DID find a Dilog DQ696. I don't know if they use the same sector format. Jon
[cctalk] Re: VAXstation 100 ROM image
Lee Gleason wrote: > I gave my VAXstation 100 system unit to Dave McGuire last year (I > didn't need it since I lost interest in UNIBUS sized hobby equipment). > Perhaps he could make a copy of its ROMs. Thanks! I asked, and he said he's willing to dump the ROM.
[cctalk] Re: You have Apple Lisa 1 "twiggy" system to trade for my IBM 5100 Portable PC?
> >> Are you sure about that? The 5100 doesn't support floppy drives. And > I've > >> never heard of third-party drives (that would need IMFs, too) for the > 5100. > > > > $3100 is about what IBM charged for a fully loaded 5150. (PC) > > THAT is not a 5100! $3100 for a 5100 would have been a bargain. > > We are neither talking about the 5150, nor about $3100 but $31,000 for a > 5100 (see above). Or did I miss something? > There was a third-party floppy drive for the IBM 5100 :-) Or at least there as something that was sold in this way. Here is its brochure: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/sykes/brochures/Sykes_Comm-Stor_5100_Brochure.pdf Note that it "plugs directly into the Serial I/O Adapter of the IBM 5100 with no hardware or software changes". So it's a serial-port connected floppy drive that talks to the 5100 in a format that it likes. (What is an IMF?) --Tom
[cctalk] Re: Next Week: VCF Midwest
If I tell you that they are not, will you think I am just trying to get the QD21 from you? I need one to replace the Sigma ESDI controller that failed, and no its format is not the same either. They also had a choice of hard vs soft sectoring. I believe Emulex and Dilog handled the RCT differently on the disk too. Let me know if you are willing to part with the QD21. cheers, Nigel Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591 On 2022-09-05 12:51, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 9/4/22 18:20, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: I will be at the VCFMW both days. I am bringing a bunch of stuff to sell. I have a big box of Q-bus boards from my Micro-VAX II system. I also have two ESDI disks that have VMS 4.7 on them, and an Emulex QD21 controller. I'm hoping somebody at the Fest can image the disk that was last used. UGH, I must have DREAMT I had the QD21 that I had used before on these disks. I can't find it now, but I DID find a Dilog DQ696. I don't know if they use the same sector format. Jon
[cctalk] Re: You have Apple Lisa 1 "twiggy" system to trade for my IBM 5100 Portable PC?
It continues to blow my mind that the Apple Lisa is worth anything. They used to be sold for almost nothing as Mac XL's, and tended to be temperamental. So when will the Apple Newton or Mac Plus be worth anything? :-) C
[cctalk] Re: You have Apple Lisa 1 "twiggy" system to trade for my IBM 5100 Portable PC?
The Lisa is the first consumer grade GUI computer to come to market. The Xerox 8010 with the Star operating system preceded it by a couple years, but that was a high-end $50,000 (in 1981 dollars) workstation with big businesses as the target market. So it has some historical significance in that regard. Sellam On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 11:50 AM Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > It continues to blow my mind that the Apple Lisa is worth anything. They > used to be sold for almost nothing as Mac XL's, and tended to be > temperamental. > > So when will the Apple Newton or Mac Plus be worth anything? :-) > > C >
[cctalk] Re: You have Apple Lisa 1 "twiggy" system to trade for my IBM 5100 Portable PC?
I played briefly with a pre-release Lisa (Berkeley Smalltalk). But then didn't see them again. I almost bought one later as a cheaper substitute for a Mac! It is historically significant. So is the 5100. But, they are totally different categories. It's like when I traded a Honda for a Leica. Haven't heard from you for a while! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com On Mon, 5 Sep 2022, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: The Lisa is the first consumer grade GUI computer to come to market. The Xerox 8010 with the Star operating system preceded it by a couple years, but that was a high-end $50,000 (in 1981 dollars) workstation with big businesses as the target market. So it has some historical significance in that regard. Sellam On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 11:50 AM Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: It continues to blow my mind that the Apple Lisa is worth anything. They used to be sold for almost nothing as Mac XL's, and tended to be temperamental. So when will the Apple Newton or Mac Plus be worth anything? :-) C
[cctalk] Re: You have Apple Lisa 1 "twiggy" system to trade for my IBM 5100 Portable PC?
On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 12:49 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > Haven't heard from you for a while! > Yep, and I missed you at the VCF this year. I decided to re-join this list when I happened upon it through a web search. The traffic is considerably less than it used to be so it's a tolerable distraction. It's good to see you're still around. I hope you are well. Sellam
[cctalk] Re: VAXstation 100 ROM image
On 05/09/2022 18:04, Lars Brinkhoff via cctalk wrote: > Lee Gleason wrote: >> I gave my VAXstation 100 system unit to Dave McGuire last year (I >> didn't need it since I lost interest in UNIBUS sized hobby equipment). >> Perhaps he could make a copy of its ROMs. > Thanks! I asked, and he said he's willing to dump the ROM. I dumped the ROMs from my VAXstation 100 some time ago (along with many other DEC devices): http://www.9track.net/roms/ 23-288E4.bin and 23-289E4.bin are probably the two main ones you are looking for. Do you just need the ROMs or are you looking for technical info on the VAXstation 100? I may be able to help. Regards, Matt
[cctalk] Re: Next Week: VCF Midwest
On 9/5/22 13:46, Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk wrote: If I tell you that they are not, will you think I am just trying to get the QD21 from you? I need one to replace the Sigma ESDI controller that failed, and no its format is not the same either. They also had a choice of hard vs soft sectoring. I believe Emulex and Dilog handled the RCT differently on the disk too. Let me know if you are willing to part with the QD21. Sorry, going through emails from 2012, it seems I sold the QD21 for a song back then. Wow, really crazy when you don't know what you dreamed and what you really did! But, I sure can't put my hands on it now! Jon
[cctalk] Re: Next Week: VCF Midwest
So now, like me, you are stuck with a bunch of ESDI drives and no controller! I do have one DQ696, on my MVII in a BA123 box, but the other controller was a Sigma that developed in internal faulure and which I used for RT11 on my 11/73 BA23 box. Now I have to share the one controller between the two boxes. RT11 one day and NetBSD another! Like you, I sold all sorts of stuff for a song, including a millivolt-on-HVAC common mode DT2765 a/d card that was $3000 when new! I also had 3 KA630s and accidentally sold two, so now I do not have a spare for the microvax either! If anybody out there has a DQ696 or an RQDX3 available, I'd like to hear from you! cheers, Nigel Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591 On 2022-09-05 17:19, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 9/5/22 13:46, Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk wrote: If I tell you that they are not, will you think I am just trying to get the QD21 from you? I need one to replace the Sigma ESDI controller that failed, and no its format is not the same either. They also had a choice of hard vs soft sectoring. I believe Emulex and Dilog handled the RCT differently on the disk too. Let me know if you are willing to part with the QD21. Sorry, going through emails from 2012, it seems I sold the QD21 for a song back then. Wow, really crazy when you don't know what you dreamed and what you really did! But, I sure can't put my hands on it now! Jon
[cctalk] FS IBM 5100 Printer
I've got a printer for the IBM 5100 that I would like to sell. I can bring it to VCFMW, but only if it is sold ahead of time (too heavy to comfortably bring on spec.) Best reasonable offer. Marvin
[cctalk] Re: You have Apple Lisa 1 "twiggy" system to trade for my IBM 5100 Portable PC?
the 5100 has an external connector. The floppy drive is a floor unit about the size of three AT units upright, with two single density floppies in it. We used my unit as an engineering reference to do a floppy interface project which required 3740 compatability from our hardware. And there was another connector on the back of the unit to daisy chain the printer. This is the 5100 desktop unit. I've got 3 of the floppy drives. Ethan Dicks was kind enough to retrieve another system for me from Pittsburgh, PA some time ago and is storing it for me at his house. Got the printer and the floppy unit. I've got one of the units with the integrated 8" floppies as well. Initially a 5150 was 6000 and wasn't fully loaded. A friend against computer advise bought one along with an IEEE interfaced 5mb drive when the PC first came out. thanks jim On 9/5/22 07:16, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Well, it ain't in the 5150/5160 range! The 5100 new was $10K to $20K. On Sun, 4 Sep 2022, jim stephens wrote: I had a 5100 that a dentist had bought as soon as it came out and he added the floppy drives and printer. It was a direct IBM buy for 31000. On Mon, 5 Sep 2022, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: Are you sure about that? The 5100 doesn't support floppy drives. And I've never heard of third-party drives (that would need IMFs, too) for the 5100. $3100 is about what IBM charged for a fully loaded 5150. (PC) THAT is not a 5100! $3100 for a 5100 would have been a bargain. A 5150 would not be worth as much as a Lisa. A 5100 would be. (or at least in a similar range)
[cctalk] Re: You have Apple Lisa 1 "twiggy" system to trade for my IBM 5100 Portable PC?
The Lisa is the first consumer grade GUI computer to come to market. The Xerox 8010 with the Star operating system preceded it by a couple years, but that was a high-end $50,000 (in 1981 dollars) workstation with big businesses as the target market. So it has some historical significance in that regard. Ok, a Lisa 1 perhaps. Very few of those drives survived (for good reason, they were terrible) and most were upconverted to Lisa 2's. I still have a Lisa Prodrive around here somewhere. CZ
[cctalk] Re: You have Apple Lisa 1 "twiggy" system to trade for my IBM 5100 Portable PC?
On 9/5/22 08:53, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: On Mon, 5 Sep 2022, Fred Cisin wrote: Well, it ain't in the 5150/5160 range! The 5100 new was $10K to $20K. On Sun, 4 Sep 2022, jim stephens wrote: I had a 5100 that a dentist had bought as soon as it came out and he added the floppy drives and printer. It was a direct IBM buy for 31000. ^ On Mon, 5 Sep 2022, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: Are you sure about that? The 5100 doesn't support floppy drives. And I've never heard of third-party drives (that would need IMFs, too) for the 5100. $3100 is about what IBM charged for a fully loaded 5150. (PC) THAT is not a 5100! $3100 for a 5100 would have been a bargain. We are neither talking about the 5150, nor about $3100 but $31,000 for a 5100 (see above). Or did I miss something? correct. I'm guessing they are thinking I'm confusing the unit with the integrated 8" floppies, or with a much later PC. which I'm not. The referred to guy was a dentist who had had this in a closet for 15 years or so, had written a couple of floppies worth of programs, and otherwise had not done anything with it. it was all in the trunk of a huge ass Cadillac convertible. I was one of the first who came by, and bought it on the spot. Drove to my truck, offloaded it and sent him on the way on an early Sunday morning. At the ACP Swap Meet in Santa Ana. He wondered if he asked too much, and wanted it gone and didn't want to really be in the middle of a spectacle over it and how little he got out of it. I was glad to get it. Christian
[cctalk] Re: You have Apple Lisa 1 "twiggy" system to trade for my IBM 5100 Portable PC?
On 9/5/22 11:07, Tom Stepleton via cctalk wrote: Are you sure about that? The 5100 doesn't support floppy drives. And I've never heard of third-party drives (that would need IMFs, too) for the 5100. $3100 is about what IBM charged for a fully loaded 5150. (PC) THAT is not a 5100! $3100 for a 5100 would have been a bargain. We are neither talking about the 5150, nor about $3100 but $31,000 for a 5100 (see above). Or did I miss something? There was a third-party floppy drive for the IBM 5100 :-) Or at least there as something that was sold in this way. Here is its brochure: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/sykes/brochures/Sykes_Comm-Stor_5100_Brochure.pdf Note that it "plugs directly into the Serial I/O Adapter of the IBM 5100 with no hardware or software changes". So it's a serial-port connected floppy drive that talks to the 5100 in a format that it likes. (What is an IMF?) --Tom The unit I have is IBM. It only did single sided diskettes, low density. It's the only device which I've ever had which could write deleted sectors. The formatting on the diskette is very similar to the tape formatting with two EOT records followed by the remainder of track 0 padded out with deleted sectors. My Tarbell controller would read the two records and returned errors for the remaining sectors. That's how I discovered that deleted sectors existed. Sykes made much more robust devices, and I'm not familiar with the unit for the 5100. But I'd not be surprised if it wrote and read many more formats. Thanks Jim thanks jim
[cctalk] Re: Next Week: VCF Midwest
On 9/5/22 16:34, Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk wrote: If anybody out there has a DQ696 or an RQDX3 available, I'd like to hear from you! I DO have a DQ696 that I will be bringing to the VCFMW. If it won't read my ESDI drives formatted on an Emulex QD21, then it is of no use to me. Jon
[cctalk] Re: Next Week: VCF Midwest
I have a spare RQDX3, but I really recommend finding an ESDI controller. It is literally a slug compared to my MTI ESDI controller. C On 9/5/2022 5:34 PM, Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk wrote: So now, like me, you are stuck with a bunch of ESDI drives and no controller! I do have one DQ696, on my MVII in a BA123 box, but the other controller was a Sigma that developed in internal faulure and which I used for RT11 on my 11/73 BA23 box. Now I have to share the one controller between the two boxes. RT11 one day and NetBSD another! Like you, I sold all sorts of stuff for a song, including a millivolt-on-HVAC common mode DT2765 a/d card that was $3000 when new! I also had 3 KA630s and accidentally sold two, so now I do not have a spare for the microvax either! If anybody out there has a DQ696 or an RQDX3 available, I'd like to hear from you! cheers, Nigel Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591 On 2022-09-05 17:19, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 9/5/22 13:46, Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk wrote: If I tell you that they are not, will you think I am just trying to get the QD21 from you? I need one to replace the Sigma ESDI controller that failed, and no its format is not the same either. They also had a choice of hard vs soft sectoring. I believe Emulex and Dilog handled the RCT differently on the disk too. Let me know if you are willing to part with the QD21. Sorry, going through emails from 2012, it seems I sold the QD21 for a song back then. Wow, really crazy when you don't know what you dreamed and what you really did! But, I sure can't put my hands on it now! Jon
[cctalk] Re: Next Week: VCF Midwest
I agree, but in addition to getting the main system disk back up, I have an ST506 emulator from David Gesswein that I would like to get working after I built it. My Plessey DCV54 does not even offer a drive select signal! cheers, Nigel Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591 On 2022-09-05 20:12, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: I have a spare RQDX3, but I really recommend finding an ESDI controller. It is literally a slug compared to my MTI ESDI controller. C On 9/5/2022 5:34 PM, Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk wrote: So now, like me, you are stuck with a bunch of ESDI drives and no controller! I do have one DQ696, on my MVII in a BA123 box, but the other controller was a Sigma that developed in internal faulure and which I used for RT11 on my 11/73 BA23 box. Now I have to share the one controller between the two boxes. RT11 one day and NetBSD another! Like you, I sold all sorts of stuff for a song, including a millivolt-on-HVAC common mode DT2765 a/d card that was $3000 when new! I also had 3 KA630s and accidentally sold two, so now I do not have a spare for the microvax either! If anybody out there has a DQ696 or an RQDX3 available, I'd like to hear from you! cheers, Nigel Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591 On 2022-09-05 17:19, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 9/5/22 13:46, Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk wrote: If I tell you that they are not, will you think I am just trying to get the QD21 from you? I need one to replace the Sigma ESDI controller that failed, and no its format is not the same either. They also had a choice of hard vs soft sectoring. I believe Emulex and Dilog handled the RCT differently on the disk too. Let me know if you are willing to part with the QD21. Sorry, going through emails from 2012, it seems I sold the QD21 for a song back then. Wow, really crazy when you don't know what you dreamed and what you really did! But, I sure can't put my hands on it now! Jon
[cctalk] Re: Next Week: VCF Midwest
Oh those things are so fun. Let me know off list, I'll start checking through things to find it. C On 9/5/2022 8:16 PM, Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk wrote: I agree, but in addition to getting the main system disk back up, I have an ST506 emulator from David Gesswein that I would like to get working after I built it. My Plessey DCV54 does not even offer a drive select signal! cheers, Nigel Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591 On 2022-09-05 20:12, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: I have a spare RQDX3, but I really recommend finding an ESDI controller. It is literally a slug compared to my MTI ESDI controller. C On 9/5/2022 5:34 PM, Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk wrote: So now, like me, you are stuck with a bunch of ESDI drives and no controller! I do have one DQ696, on my MVII in a BA123 box, but the other controller was a Sigma that developed in internal faulure and which I used for RT11 on my 11/73 BA23 box. Now I have to share the one controller between the two boxes. RT11 one day and NetBSD another! Like you, I sold all sorts of stuff for a song, including a millivolt-on-HVAC common mode DT2765 a/d card that was $3000 when new! I also had 3 KA630s and accidentally sold two, so now I do not have a spare for the microvax either! If anybody out there has a DQ696 or an RQDX3 available, I'd like to hear from you! cheers, Nigel Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591 On 2022-09-05 17:19, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 9/5/22 13:46, Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk wrote: If I tell you that they are not, will you think I am just trying to get the QD21 from you? I need one to replace the Sigma ESDI controller that failed, and no its format is not the same either. They also had a choice of hard vs soft sectoring. I believe Emulex and Dilog handled the RCT differently on the disk too. Let me know if you are willing to part with the QD21. Sorry, going through emails from 2012, it seems I sold the QD21 for a song back then. Wow, really crazy when you don't know what you dreamed and what you really did! But, I sure can't put my hands on it now! Jon
[cctalk] Re: VAXstation 100 ROM image
Matt Burke wrote: > I dumped the ROMs from my VAXstation 100 some time ago (along with many > other DEC devices): > > http://www.9track.net/roms/ > > 23-288E4.bin and 23-289E4.bin are probably the two main ones you are > looking for. Do you just need the ROMs or are you looking for technical > info on the VAXstation 100? I may be able to help. Thank you very much! My idea is to make a VS100 emulator and have it run the firmware uploaded by early X versions. But I have some other things going on now, so it will have to wait. I'd be grateful for any help; I may well get in touch in the future.
