Re: What do to with an Internet-connected PDP-11?

[ben via cctalk]

On 4/28/2019 11:34 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote:

Maybe it would be possible to get a text only browser running?


I think Gopher would be a better fit, personally. That's easy to write,
parse and display.


That might be true, but what sites still provide that service.
A web novel app might work. 5K of REAL text, 5Meg of ads,pop ups and 
java script. :(

Ben.

Re: What do to with an Internet-connected PDP-11?

[Sean Conner via cctalk]

It was thus said that the Great ben via cctalk once stated:
> On 4/28/2019 11:34 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote:
> >>Maybe it would be possible to get a text only browser running?
> >
> >I think Gopher would be a better fit, personally. That's easy to write,
> >parse and display.
> >
> That might be true, but what sites still provide that service.

  There are quite a few active gopher sites out there.  You can start with:

gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/1/world

but wait!  There's more!

gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/1/fun/xkcd
gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/1/feeds/latest
gopher://gopher.altexxanet.org/1/textfiles.com
gopher://1436.ninja/1/Project_Gutenberg_in_Gopherspace
gopher://hngopher.com/
gopher://sdf.org/1/users/julienxx/Lobste.rs

and some phlogs (gopher blogs):

gopher://gopher.black/1/moku-pona
gopher://i-logout.cz/1/en/bongusta/

(although there's some overlap between these two).

  -spc

Re: What do to with an Internet-connected PDP-11?

[allison via cctalk]

On 04/29/2019 03:20 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
> On 4/28/2019 11:34 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote:
>>> Maybe it would be possible to get a text only browser running?
>>
>> I think Gopher would be a better fit, personally. That's easy to write,
>> parse and display.
>>
> That might be true, but what sites still provide that service.
> A web novel app might work. 5K of REAL text, 5Meg of ads,pop ups and
> java script. :(
> Ben.
>
>
>
With a PDP-11/23 and full boat ram (18bit) you can run more than RT-11
and something like V6 unix or maybe
RSX might be a better choice for anything networking.  An OS that
supports swapping and maybe virtual memory
would help even at the expense of speed.  Networking does require some
level of multitasking as well so RT-11/FB
is likely more useful than vanilla RT.

Allison

Re: What do to with an Internet-connected PDP-11?

[Cameron Kaiser via cctalk]

> >> Maybe it would be possible to get a text only browser running?
> > 
> > I think Gopher would be a better fit, personally. That's easy to write,
> > parse and display.
> > 
> That might be true, but what sites still provide that service.

Funny you should ask.

gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- You can't fake the funk. -- Arnold X. Perkins --

Re: Greetings

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Sun, Apr 28, 2019 at 4:55 PM Ray Jewhurst via cctalk
 wrote:
> I am new to the list and would like to introduce myself. I am a computer
> history buff who especially likes DEC machines.

Welcome.  I started working with DEC machines for fun in 1982 and for
money in 1984, so they have a dear place in my heart.

> I see that Bitsavers has a copy of VMS 1.5 and wanted to
> know if anyone got it working with the Vax 780 simulator?

There was some discussion about that on the Simh mailing list a couple
of years back.  The difficulty is that Simh doesn't emulate the
console media closely enough to use them to start the install and
prior to VMS 2.0, the method (tools used, etc) was different.  VAXen
don't boot from tape like a PDP-11, so you have to have an install kit
to match your console medium (RX01 for an 11/780, TU58 for 11/750,
11/730, 11/725, etc)   From the discussion, it seems to be easiest to
install a newer version of VMS (3.0 works, 2.0 does as well, I think)
to unpack the VMS 1.5 files onto a blank disk, then boot that on an
emulated 11/780 and finish the install.

I myself haven't tried the process but the Simh mailing list archives
describe the process in a way that someone with VMS experience can
likely figure it out.  I haven't encountered any step-by-step recipes.

Where the Hobbyist License comes into play is with VMS 5.0 and newer -
you'll need LMF license keys and the Hobbyist Program is a way to get
free keys with a one-year expiration.

-ethan

Re: Modern Rack Rails in Classic Racks?

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Zane Healy

> How safe is it to put modern rack rails (HP) in a classic DEC Rack? 

May I ask why you're doing that? Are you trying to mount modern units
in an old rack?

If you're trying to mount old units (RK05's, BA11's, etc) in an old rack,
I've been working on finding old slide-mounts; e.g. I know the thing
to order for RK05's.

Noel

Re: What do to with an Internet-connected PDP-11?

[Aaron Jackson via cctalk]

There is a TCP/IP stack available for RT-11, although I've never tried
it. It apparently works with both DEQNA and DELQA cards, and I suspect
you've got one or the other in your 11/23.

http://shop-pdp.net/rthtml/tcpip.php

It is possible, but also very painful, to view websites using the telnet
client "GET / HTTP/1.1" followed by two returns should give you a page.

I think it's more fun to do the opposite. My PDP-11/73 (in a 11/23+
chassis) is accessible via the web, when it's powered up.

http://catbert.rhwyd.co.uk

https://web.archive.org/web/20190420150036/http://catbert.rhwyd.co.uk/

So there's plenty of room to have fun :)

Aaron


Richard Cini via cctalk writes:

> All –
>
>
>
>  Over the last few months, I’ve built myself a nice little PDP-11/23 with a 
> SCSI interface/drive, extra SLUs and Ethernet. With the help of a few people, 
> I was able to get an Ethernet configuration running, which is kind of cool. 
> It’s been a great learning process getting this up and running. It’s a Q18 
> system, so memory is limited and I don’t think able to run BSD (I’m running 
> RT-11 right now).
>
>
>
> So, for playing around, what can I practically do with this? Is it even 
> possible to access any Web sites (unconventional browsing for sure; I’ve read 
> about telnetting to port 80)? I’m sure email is possible, as is FTP/Telnet 
> (I’ve used that inside my lab setup), but I don’t really know where to start 
> with that.
>
>
>
>  If anyone has any pointers/suggestions, I’d appreciate it.
>
>
>
>  Thanks!
>
>
>
> Rich


--
Aaron Jackson - M6PIU
Researcher at University of Nottingham
http://aaronsplace.co.uk/

Re: What do to with an Internet-connected PDP-11?

[Patrick Finnegan via cctalk]

On Sun, Apr 28, 2019 at 6:14 PM Richard Cini via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> So, for playing around, what can I practically do with this? Is it even
> possible to access any Web sites (unconventional browsing for sure; I’ve
> read about telnetting to port 80)? I’m sure email is possible, as is
> FTP/Telnet (I’ve used that inside my lab setup), but I don’t really know
> where to start with that.
>
>
>
> If anyone has any pointers/suggestions, I’d appreciate it.
>

So, having just gone through some of this with my TeleVideo stuff, my
suggestion is to do a bit of work on both the client (PDP-11) and something
a bit faster, which can handle encryption etc.

I wrote a couple of simple web services and some Z80 code (obviously your
PDP-11 code will be a bit different but with a similar concept), to parse
the HTML on something using a web service (I used an apache CGI script to
make it simple), and send the parsed results to the client.

It's not interactive, but it seemed like the most elegant solution to the
problem.

If you want to see my code, check out "cgi/tvi-lynx.pl" and
"almmmost/z80/LYNXGET.ZASM":
https://github.com/vax11/almmmost

Pat

Re: What do to with an Internet-connected PDP-11?

[Richard Cini via cctalk]

  
  
  

I’ll have to see if I have the Gopher client installed on my disk 
image. If not I’ll install it and see how it goes. Great idea!
Rich



Get Outlook for iOS

  




On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 8:25 AM -0400, "Cameron Kaiser via cctalk" 
 wrote:










> >> Maybe it would be possible to get a text only browser running?
> > 
> > I think Gopher would be a better fit, personally. That's easy to write,
> > parse and display.
> > 
> That might be true, but what sites still provide that service.

Funny you should ask.

gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- You can't fake the funk. -- Arnold X. Perkins --

Nat Semi 16032 info discovered

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

Back in 1984 I had cloned a Logical Microcomputer Co. Genix 
system based on the Nat. Semi. 16032 chip set.  I had a dd 
dump of the distribution on floppies, but that was unreadable.
I just found a binder with about an inch of fanfold 
printouts of all the device drivers, low-level system 
routines, boot loaders, etc in c source format.


These were printed on my Honeywell "big iron" drum printer 
with a funny character set, so many of the ASCII 96 
characters are printed using overprints.  Like, { shows as a 
< overprinted with (.
So, it might be tricky to scan and OCR it without training 
the OCR. Not sure anybody would be interested in it, anyway.


Jon

Re: Greetings

[allison via cctalk]

On 04/28/2019 09:28 PM, Grant Taylor via cctech wrote:
> On 4/28/19 6:27 PM, Ray Jewhurst wrote:
>> I already have a Hobbyist License.  I am just interested in
>> experimenting with different OSes and different versions of OSes.
>
> ACK
>
> I don't know what VAX hardware VMS 1.5 supported, what VAX hardware
> that Simh supports, or what the overlap is between the two.
>
> There's a reasonable chance that someone will chime in with experience.
>
>
>
You are limited to what the VAX-11/780 system had for peripherals and
typically under 8MB ram (it maxed at 16mb).

Re: Greetings

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 04/29/2019 06:47 AM, allison via cctech wrote:

On 04/28/2019 09:28 PM, Grant Taylor via cctech wrote:

On 4/28/19 6:27 PM, Ray Jewhurst wrote:

I already have a Hobbyist License.  I am just interested in
experimenting with different OSes and different versions of OSes.

ACK

I don't know what VAX hardware VMS 1.5 supported, what VAX hardware
that Simh supports, or what the overlap is between the two.

There's a reasonable chance that someone will chime in with experience.




You are limited to what the VAX-11/780 system had for peripherals and
typically under 8MB ram (it maxed at 16mb).
Well, for command-line computing (well, this IS the classic 
computing list) you can do a lot.
Our first 11/780 had half a megabyte of memory.  Friday 
afternoon one memory board went bad, and I pulled it out.  A 
user group ran a gigantic batch job of mechanical analysis 
over the weekend on 256 K!  I was amazed, I really thought 
it would thrash itself to death on that.


I ran a microVAX-II at home on one meg for years.

But, I never experienced VMS before about version 3.4, I 
think.  I'd really hate to run any VMS that didn't have 
loadable device drivers.  Doing the brute force sysgens was 
so RSX-11 ish.
I think VMS 1.5 still had a bunch of utilities running in 
PDP-11 emulation.


Jon

Re: Greetings

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Apr 29, 2019, at 7:47 AM, allison via cctech  wrote:
> 
> On 04/28/2019 09:28 PM, Grant Taylor via cctech wrote:
>> On 4/28/19 6:27 PM, Ray Jewhurst wrote:
>>> I already have a Hobbyist License.  I am just interested in
>>> experimenting with different OSes and different versions of OSes.
>> 
>> ACK
>> 
>> I don't know what VAX hardware VMS 1.5 supported, what VAX hardware
>> that Simh supports, or what the overlap is between the two.
>> 
>> There's a reasonable chance that someone will chime in with experience.
>> 
> You are limited to what the VAX-11/780 system had for peripherals and
> typically under 8MB ram (it maxed at 16mb).

Does it support MSCP?  If not, RP06 would certainly serve for your disks.

paul

Re: Greetings

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 4/29/19 12:45 PM, allison via cctech wrote:
> On 04/29/2019 11:37 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
>> On 04/29/2019 06:47 AM, allison via cctech wrote:
>>> On 04/28/2019 09:28 PM, Grant Taylor via cctech wrote:
 On 4/28/19 6:27 PM, Ray Jewhurst wrote:
> I already have a Hobbyist License.  I am just interested in
> experimenting with different OSes and different versions of OSes.
 ACK

 I don't know what VAX hardware VMS 1.5 supported, what VAX hardware
 that Simh supports, or what the overlap is between the two.

 There's a reasonable chance that someone will chime in with experience.



>>> You are limited to what the VAX-11/780 system had for peripherals and
>>> typically under 8MB ram (it maxed at 16mb).
>> Well, for command-line computing (well, this IS the classic computing
>> list) you can do a lot.
>> Our first 11/780 had half a megabyte of memory.  Friday afternoon one
>> memory board went bad, and I pulled it out.  A user group ran a
>> gigantic batch job of mechanical analysis over the weekend on 256 K!
>> I was amazed, I really thought it would thrash itself to death on that.
>>
>> I ran a microVAX-II at home on one meg for years.
> 
> The typical environment during the DEC years '83-93 was a 780 with a
> 4-12mb and dozens of users or more.

Unless someone tried to run Ada, then it became a single user system.  :-)

bill

Re: Greetings

[allison via cctalk]

On 04/29/2019 09:41 AM, Paul Koning wrote:
>
>> On Apr 29, 2019, at 7:47 AM, allison via cctech  
>> wrote:
>>
>> On 04/28/2019 09:28 PM, Grant Taylor via cctech wrote:
>>> On 4/28/19 6:27 PM, Ray Jewhurst wrote:
 I already have a Hobbyist License.  I am just interested in
 experimenting with different OSes and different versions of OSes.
>>> ACK
>>>
>>> I don't know what VAX hardware VMS 1.5 supported, what VAX hardware
>>> that Simh supports, or what the overlap is between the two.
>>>
>>> There's a reasonable chance that someone will chime in with experience.
>>>
>> You are limited to what the VAX-11/780 system had for peripherals and
>> typically under 8MB ram (it maxed at 16mb).
> Does it support MSCP?  If not, RP06 would certainly serve for your disks.
>
>   paul
>
I believe its pre MSCP.  V1.5 is pre 1981 if memory serves.  MSCP I
think was introduced
Qbus systems in the 80s just prior to the MicroVAX.

VAX-11/78-- was introduced in '78 and the next generation was around
1980 with the
730 and 750 for the small systems and the 782 and 785 for the larger ones.

Re: Greetings

[allison via cctalk]

On 04/29/2019 11:37 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 04/29/2019 06:47 AM, allison via cctech wrote:
>> On 04/28/2019 09:28 PM, Grant Taylor via cctech wrote:
>>> On 4/28/19 6:27 PM, Ray Jewhurst wrote:
 I already have a Hobbyist License.  I am just interested in
 experimenting with different OSes and different versions of OSes.
>>> ACK
>>>
>>> I don't know what VAX hardware VMS 1.5 supported, what VAX hardware
>>> that Simh supports, or what the overlap is between the two.
>>>
>>> There's a reasonable chance that someone will chime in with experience.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> You are limited to what the VAX-11/780 system had for peripherals and
>> typically under 8MB ram (it maxed at 16mb).
> Well, for command-line computing (well, this IS the classic computing
> list) you can do a lot.
> Our first 11/780 had half a megabyte of memory.  Friday afternoon one
> memory board went bad, and I pulled it out.  A user group ran a
> gigantic batch job of mechanical analysis over the weekend on 256 K! 
> I was amazed, I really thought it would thrash itself to death on that.
>
> I ran a microVAX-II at home on one meg for years.

The typical environment during the DEC years '83-93 was a 780 with a
4-12mb and dozens of users or more.
In 83 that meant 3.2 or later and much of the time was V3.8 or 3.9 till
maybe 86ish then V4 and soon after V5.
The years 83 and 84 I fondly remember V3.6 and later mostly 3.8 and
often the best available machine was
a PDP-11 [PRINCE] and [VIDEO] as the terminals and printers machines
were running RSTS and phase II DECnet.
Others of memory were MILRAT, REX, and ROYALT and later (1989) my own
work box VIDSYS (uVAXII BA123].

If memory serves V4 was the last that ran in 1meg, V5 pushed that higher
as a 4 meg system was more
common then.  However the Qbus uVAX has a RD54[system] and RD52[swap] on
separate MSCP controllers
for performance as thats where they bottlenecked when heavy swapping.

All my uVAXen have run from V4.4 [MicroVaxII/GPX] or later and my
nominal version is 5.4.  Though I have a
RZ56 with V7.2 on it.   All are physical hardware in the Qbus BA123
realm and M3100 series. 

>
> But, I never experienced VMS before about version 3.4, I think.  I'd
> really hate to run any VMS that didn't have loadable device drivers. 
> Doing the brute force sysgens was so RSX-11 ish.
> I think VMS 1.5 still had a bunch of utilities running in PDP-11
> emulation.
>
> Jon
>
Running anything before V3 is painful as it was a build.  Also V1 was
tied the 780 and that did PDP11 emulation
mode for a lot of stuff.  VMS changed a lot from 4.2 to 4.6, long file
names are one that comes to mind as well as
phase III and IV DECnet.

That was a long time ago.

Allsion

Re: Nat Semi 16032 info discovered

[Steven M Jones via cctalk]

On 04/29/2019 09:30, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:


I just found a binder with about an inch of fanfold printouts of all the 
device drivers, low-level system routines, boot loaders, etc in c source 
format.


So, it might be tricky to scan and OCR it without training the OCR. Not 
sure anybody would be interested in it, anyway.



Well, I have an abiding interest in the Nat Semi 32k series. I'm not 
connected to it, but the website http://cpu-ns32k.net seems to indicate 
there are others.


So I'd say the code is worth trying to preserve, as I don't know how 
much source code of any kind related to Genix and the systems it ran on 
might still be out there...


--S.

PS - If anybody's got ns32k hardware, I'm interested... ;)

Excessive amount of time in interrupt stack mode

[Carlos E Murillo-Sanchez via cctalk]

Dear ccmp'ers:

For a while now, I noticed that my vaxstation 4000/60 with OpenVMS 7.2 
had become sluggish, but I had not had the time to investigate the 
problem.   The system is mostly idle, RAM is mostly free (there's 32mb), 
there is almost no paging, but the CPU is spending upwards of 70% of the 
time in the interrupt stack mode.  Currently, I am running it headless 
because I have not had the time to fix the monitor (it still has the 
framebuffer inside, but this sluggishness issue was present before with 
the monitor attached).  I have read that this can be caused by "faulty 
i/o devices that interrupt the cpu continuously".  What else can be done 
to locate the source of the problem?


Regards,

Carlos.

Re: Modern Rack Rails in Classic Racks?

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

> On Apr 29, 2019, at 7:18 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
>> From: Zane Healy
> 
>> How safe is it to put modern rack rails (HP) in a classic DEC Rack? 
> 
> May I ask why you're doing that? Are you trying to mount modern units
> in an old rack?
> 
> If you're trying to mount old units (RK05's, BA11's, etc) in an old rack,
> I've been working on finding old slide-mounts; e.g. I know the thing
> to order for RK05's.
> 
>   Noel

I think part of the answer is that I'm going in circles. :-)  I have 4 DEC 
Racks, but all four are full, and since the initial post, I’ve concluded 
they’re off-limits.  I don’t have any RK05’s, and the RL01’s and RL02’s will 
stay in DEC Racks, as will the majority of the DEC HW.

The primary objective is to mount a DL380G7 and a 1GigE switch.

I also have some desktops that I’d ideally like in the rack, and maybe a 
MicroVAX III and PDP-11 or two (those are if I go the route of a real rack).  

Earlier in this thread, I’d pretty much convinced myself to use a wooden rack 
that I have several of.  Then I remembered why I moved from those to Gorilla 
Racks.  The wooden racks are pretty unstable.

I’ve found good deals on a variety of modern racks at a local place.  I’m now 
strongly leaning towards this option.

My next question is, what options are there for putting a shelf in a standard 
rack?  My google-fu seems to be failing me.  I’ve I’m going to put any desktops 
in the rack, I’ll need a shelf or two, at a minimum.

Zane

Re: Modern Rack Rails in Classic Racks?

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Apr 29, 2019, at 1:19 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> ...
> My next question is, what options are there for putting a shelf in a standard 
> rack?  My google-fu seems to be failing me.  I’ve I’m going to put any 
> desktops in the rack, I’ll need a shelf or two, at a minimum.

I don't have any myself, but I've seen plenty of rack mounted shelves in the 
racks at the office.  Those are modern racks, but I'd assume they come in a 
range of sizes.  I could use some for putting oscilloscopes etc. in my H960.

paul

Re: Nat Semi 16032 info discovered

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 04/29/2019 12:07 PM, Steven M Jones via cctalk wrote:



PS - If anybody's got ns32k hardware, I'm interested... ;)

I have a complete, wire-wrapped clone of the Logical 
Microcomputer Co. 16032 system, except for memory and the 
MFM disk.  So, that's the CPU on Multibus-I, a Taisho disk 
controller, and a board with 5 2561 (I think) UARTs for 
serial comms.


I ran it for about 18 months, I think, until I had the 
incredible fortune to be able to buy a microVAX-II.  The 
16032 with Multibus memory and MMU turned on was just 
glacially slow.
It took several minutes for emacs to load, I'm not 
exaggerating. Maybe I didn't have enough memory on it, and 
of course an MFM disk is kind of slow, too.


Jon

Re: Excessive amount of time in interrupt stack mode

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 04/29/2019 12:11 PM, Carlos E Murillo-Sanchez via cctalk 
wrote:


Dear ccmp'ers:

For a while now, I noticed that my vaxstation 4000/60 with 
OpenVMS 7.2 had become sluggish, but I had not had the 
time to investigate the problem.   The system is mostly 
idle, RAM is mostly free (there's 32mb), there is almost 
no paging, but the CPU is spending upwards of 70% of the 
time in the interrupt stack mode. Currently, I am running 
it headless because I have not had the time to fix the 
monitor (it still has the framebuffer inside, but this 
sluggishness issue was present before with the monitor 
attached).  I have read that this can be caused by "faulty 
i/o devices that interrupt the cpu continuously".  What 
else can be done to locate the source of the problem?

Check for disk fragmentation?

Jon

Re: Nat Semi 16032 info discovered

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 4/29/19 10:07 AM, Steven M Jones via cctalk wrote:

> PS - If anybody's got ns32k hardware, I'm interested... ;)

Dig into some old laser printers.   I had a Panasonic that used the
32016 with graphics enhancements.

But then, I suspect that you're more interested in computers than
printers...


--Chuck

Re: Excessive amount of time in interrupt stack mode

[emanuel stiebler via cctalk]

On 2019-04-29 13:11, Carlos E Murillo-Sanchez via cctalk wrote:
> 
> Dear ccmp'ers:
> 
> For a while now, I noticed that my vaxstation 4000/60 with OpenVMS 7.2
> had become sluggish, but I had not had the time to investigate the
> problem.   The system is mostly idle, RAM is mostly free (there's 32mb),
> there is almost no paging, but the CPU is spending upwards of 70% of the
> time in the interrupt stack mode.  Currently, I am running it headless
> because I have not had the time to fix the monitor (it still has the
> framebuffer inside, but this sluggishness issue was present before with
> the monitor attached).  I have read that this can be caused by "faulty
> i/o devices that interrupt the cpu continuously".  What else can be done
> to locate the source of the problem?

SHOW DEV? doesn't show anything weird?

Re: Nat Semi 16032 info discovered

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 4/29/19 9:30 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
> Back in 1984 I had cloned a Logical Microcomputer Co. Genix system based on 
> the Nat. Semi. 16032 chip set.  I had a dd
> dump of the distribution on floppies, but that was unreadable.
> I just found a binder with about an inch of fanfold printouts of all the 
> device drivers, low-level system routines, boot
> loaders, etc in c source format.
> 
> These were printed on my Honeywell "big iron" drum printer with a funny 
> character set, so many of the ASCII 96
> characters are printed using overprints.  Like, { shows as a < overprinted 
> with (.
> So, it might be tricky to scan and OCR it without training the OCR. Not sure 
> anybody would be interested in it, anyway.
> 
> Jon

I have an image of the Genix source tape.
Will try to dig it up.

Unknown 1970 Tapedrive

[jos via cctalk]

Was given a tapedrive in rather bad condition, but it has no manufacturers name 
on it.

Pics  on ftp://ftp.dreesen.ch/Tapedrive


Anyone recognizes this ? The paddle PCB says "paddle board, 7/9 level tape 
handler."

Not even sure if it is a computer tape drive or an instrument  / data logger...


Yours if you pick it up ( and be prepared to spend quit some time to clean this 
one up. Unit has seen more this its share of water over the years)
Location : CH

Jos

Re: Modern Rack Rails in Classic Racks?

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

> On Apr 29, 2019, at 10:24 AM, Paul Koning  wrote:
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2019, at 1:19 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> ...
>> My next question is, what options are there for putting a shelf in a 
>> standard rack?  My google-fu seems to be failing me.  I’ve I’m going to put 
>> any desktops in the rack, I’ll need a shelf or two, at a minimum.
> 
> I don't have any myself, but I've seen plenty of rack mounted shelves in the 
> racks at the office.  Those are modern racks, but I'd assume they come in a 
> range of sizes.  I could use some for putting oscilloscopes etc. in my H960.
> 
>   paul

I finally figured out how to pull up shelves on eBay.  Looks like outfitting a 
rack with shelves will likely cost more than the rack itself, but give me 
solution that will make it perfect for me.

Zane

Re: Unknown 1970 Tapedrive

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 4/29/19 12:25 PM, jos via cctalk wrote:
> Was given a tapedrive in rather bad condition, but it has no
> manufacturers name on it.
> 
> Pics  on ftp://ftp.dreesen.ch/Tapedrive
> 
> 
> Anyone recognizes this ? The paddle PCB says "paddle board, 7/9 level
> tape handler."
> 
> Not even sure if it is a computer tape drive or an instrument  / data
> logger...


What's the date on the paddle board?

Could almost be a key-to-tape drive.

--Chuck

Re: Unknown 1970 Tapedrive

[Jos Dreesen via cctalk]

What's the date on the paddle board?

Could almost be a key-to-tape drive.

--Chuck



1970, also all TTL is dated 1969 or 1970.

Jos

Re: Unknown 1970 Tapedrive

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 4/29/19 12:56 PM, Jos Dreesen via cctalk wrote:

> 
> 1970, also all TTL is dated 1969 or 1970.
> 
> Jos

That would fit right in with a key-tape scheme.   Can you tell if the
capstan motor is a stepper?

--Chuck

Re: Unknown 1970 Tapedrive

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 4/29/19 12:25 PM, jos via cctalk wrote:

> Anyone recognizes this ?

have never seen anything like it, but given the labels are in english
but there are european electrolytics, I'm guessing it was made in the UK

Re: Modern Rack Rails in Classic Racks?

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 1:37 PM Zane Healy via cctalk 
wrote:

>
> > On Apr 29, 2019, at 10:24 AM, Paul Koning 
> wrote:
> >
> >> On Apr 29, 2019, at 1:19 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> ...
> >> My next question is, what options are there for putting a shelf in a
> standard rack?  My google-fu seems to be failing me.  I’ve I’m going to put
> any desktops in the rack, I’ll need a shelf or two, at a minimum.
> >
> > I don't have any myself, but I've seen plenty of rack mounted shelves in
> the racks at the office.  Those are modern racks, but I'd assume they come
> in a range of sizes.  I could use some for putting oscilloscopes etc. in my
> H960.
> >
> >   paul
>
> I finally figured out how to pull up shelves on eBay.  Looks like
> outfitting a rack with shelves will likely cost more than the rack itself,
> but give me solution that will make it perfect for me.
>

While it might not be useful for all applications, I've gone down to the
hardware store and purchased "angle iron" and cut it to length. I then
drill a whole through it in a couple of places and bolt it to the rack.
It's not as nice as sliders, but it gets the job done for all the systems
I've used in the past couple of decades. It wouldn't work well, however,
for systems that have big heavy disk drives, for tape drives, etc. It also
burns 1 U in the rack. For me that's not been an issue but others have
complained about that in the past when I've suggested this.

Warner

Re: Modern Rack Rails in Classic Racks?

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

> On Apr 29, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Warner Losh  wrote:
> 
> While it might not be useful for all applications, I've gone down to the 
> hardware store and purchased "angle iron" and cut it to length. I then drill 
> a whole through it in a couple of places and bolt it to the rack. It's not as 
> nice as sliders, but it gets the job done for all the systems I've used in 
> the past couple of decades. It wouldn't work well, however, for systems that 
> have big heavy disk drives, for tape drives, etc. It also burns 1 U in the 
> rack. For me that's not been an issue but others have complained about that 
> in the past when I've suggested this.
> 
> Warner

I figure that loosing 1U will be less of a concern than the insulating effects 
of putting a sheet of wood in there.  I’m giving real consideration to jury 
rigging something.

I’ll pick up the rack and then go from there.  

Zane

Re: Modern Rack Rails in Classic Racks?

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 5:05 PM Zane Healy  wrote:

>
> On Apr 29, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Warner Losh  wrote:
>
> While it might not be useful for all applications, I've gone down to the
> hardware store and purchased "angle iron" and cut it to length. I then
> drill a whole through it in a couple of places and bolt it to the rack.
> It's not as nice as sliders, but it gets the job done for all the systems
> I've used in the past couple of decades. It wouldn't work well, however,
> for systems that have big heavy disk drives, for tape drives, etc. It also
> burns 1 U in the rack. For me that's not been an issue but others have
> complained about that in the past when I've suggested this.
>
> Warner
>
>
> I figure that loosing 1U will be less of a concern than the insulating
> effects of putting a sheet of wood in there.  I’m giving real consideration
> to jury rigging something.
>
> I’ll pick up the rack and then go from there.
>

I put wood there too :)  But only when the chassis is venting front to back
(or back to front) as opposed to top to bottom... Though it's been a long
time since I've seen top to bottom...

Warner

Re: Nat Semi 16032 info discovered

[alan--- via cctalk]

While this isn't specific to 16032, it is somewhat related.  A year and 
a half ago, someone found the Gerber files for Scolaro's PC532 Baby AT 
motherboard.  I back-annotated them into Eagle (I don't use KiCad) where 
they could be edited.  The ground fill from the Gerbers was replaced 
with ground pours from Eagle.  And there are very minor clean-ups to the 
board art work.  I used my own judgement in what was in-spirit with the 
original design.  The schematic drawing is entirely new.  While it does 
not match the style of the original, it is electrically correct and 
fully forward/back annotates to the PCB artwork.


I just moved it from my private repo to my public facing one here:

https://www.retrotronics.org/svn/ns32k/pc532/

Hopefully someone else can also make use of it.

-Alan

PS. I recently discovered pcbcart.com does reasonably priced 6-layer 
boards if anyone wants to do reproductions of it.


On 2019-04-29 13:07, Steven M Jones via cctalk wrote:


Well, I have an abiding interest in the Nat Semi 32k series. I'm not
connected to it, but the website http://cpu-ns32k.net seems to
indicate there are others.

Re: Modern Rack Rails in Classic Racks?

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

> On Apr 29, 2019, at 4:10 PM, Warner Losh  wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 5:05 PM Zane Healy  > wrote:
> 
>> On Apr 29, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Warner Losh > > wrote:
>> 
>> While it might not be useful for all applications, I've gone down to the 
>> hardware store and purchased "angle iron" and cut it to length. I then drill 
>> a whole through it in a couple of places and bolt it to the rack. It's not 
>> as nice as sliders, but it gets the job done for all the systems I've used 
>> in the past couple of decades. It wouldn't work well, however, for systems 
>> that have big heavy disk drives, for tape drives, etc. It also burns 1 U in 
>> the rack. For me that's not been an issue but others have complained about 
>> that in the past when I've suggested this.
>> 
>> Warner
> 
> I figure that loosing 1U will be less of a concern than the insulating 
> effects of putting a sheet of wood in there.  I’m giving real consideration 
> to jury rigging something.
> 
> I’ll pick up the rack and then go from there.  
> 
> I put wood there too :)  But only when the chassis is venting front to back 
> (or back to front) as opposed to top to bottom... Though it's been a long 
> time since I've seen top to bottom…

This will be going into my Garage, so cooling will be a challenge during the 
summer.  OTOH, it’s really nice to be able to log in via ILO and check the 
system temperatures.  My plan is to keep the 24x7 servers as low to the ground 
as possible.  Stuff that gets powered of “when needed”, can go higher up in the 
rack.  The one exception will be if I put the MicroVAX III with RA7x drives 
into the rack, like I’m threatening to.  Those would probably be forced to go 
in the bottom.

Zane

Re: What do to with an Internet-connected PDP-11?

[Cameron Kaiser via cctalk]

> I'll have to see if I have the Gopher client installed on my disk image.
> If not I'll install it and see how it goes. Great idea!

The nice thing about Gopher is that even if you don't, the protocol is
so trivial to speak and parse menus that you could probably bang a simple
client out in an afternoon or less.

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs. -- Bruce Johnson 

Re: What do to with an Internet-connected PDP-11?

[Richard Cini via cctalk]

Ok, that's good to know. Thanks.

On 4/29/19, 8:29 PM, "cctalk on behalf of Cameron Kaiser via cctalk" 
 wrote:

> I'll have to see if I have the Gopher client installed on my disk image.
> If not I'll install it and see how it goes. Great idea!

The nice thing about Gopher is that even if you don't, the protocol is
so trivial to speak and parse menus that you could probably bang a simple
client out in an afternoon or less.

-- 
 personal: 
http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * 
ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs. -- Bruce Johnson 

Re: What do to with an Internet-connected PDP-11?

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

I've been thinking it would be neat (strange?) to have HTTP client/server 
running over DECnet instead of TCP.  Object number would be 80, of course.

On Ultrix it seems this should be quite easy, given that it has "stream mode" 
DECnet sockets that act very much like TCP streams.

paul

Re: What do to with an Internet-connected PDP-11?

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

> On Apr 29, 2019, at 5:40 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I've been thinking it would be neat (strange?) to have HTTP client/server 
> running over DECnet instead of TCP.  Object number would be 80, of course.
> 
> On Ultrix it seems this should be quite easy, given that it has "stream mode" 
> DECnet sockets that act very much like TCP streams.

I want to say that the OSU webserver for VMS supports running over DECnet, but 
my memory could be faulty. I’ve only used WASD on VMS.

Zane

Re: What do to with an Internet-connected PDP-11?

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 4/29/19 6:47 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
I want to say that the OSU webserver for VMS supports running over 
DECnet, but my memory could be faulty. I’ve only used WASD on VMS.


I think this sounds like a neat ~> fun thing to do.

But how does a web server run over DECnet?

I guess conceptually you can serve web pages across any protocol that 
can carry HTTP.


But I guess you could also have a client that ran over DECnet or need a 
gateway to TCP/IP.


#confused #eagerToLearn



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Q Bus front panel

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

I thought about it.. but..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/133019966845

Re: Sun SS2 SBus memory expansion parts

[systems_glitch via cctalk]

You can make the cable out of a section of ribbon cable and
DuPont/FCI/whoever-owns-it-now Mini-Latch PV connector housings, I made
that up for one of my SS2s. Note that it'll interfere with the top closing
on a SPARCstation IPX, if you put the board in the slot closest to the
memory expansion socket. I believe the real Sun cable did, too.

I've got one of the 32MB mezzanine boards, I've thought about reproducing
it as it seems to be just RAM chips, no special ICs. There would be a
significant cost in having it (destructively) scanned and the original
would be gone.

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 10:42 PM Chris Hanson via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On Apr 25, 2019, at 7:39 PM, Chris Hanson via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > I have the 32MB memory expansion card for my SPARCstation 2 (P/N
> 501-1823) but not the accompanying cable (501-1814) or 32MB mezzanine card
> (501-1824).
>
> Of course I meant 530-1814 as the Sun part number for the cable.
>
> We deeply regret such grievous inaccuracy.
>
>   -- Chris
>
>
>

Re: What do to with an Internet-connected PDP-11?

[systems_glitch via cctalk]

If you get 2.11BSD up and going (which would require a CPU upgrade, it
won't run on the F11, needs split I+D), you can run a *native* IRC client!
One of the guys on #vc has written a minimalist IRC client that compiles
and runs on 2.11BSD on the PDP-11.

AFAIK, there was no TCP/IP stack for the BSDs that will run on the F11.
Anyone know of one?

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 9:05 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 4/29/19 6:47 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
> > I want to say that the OSU webserver for VMS supports running over
> > DECnet, but my memory could be faulty. I’ve only used WASD on VMS.
>
> I think this sounds like a neat ~> fun thing to do.
>
> But how does a web server run over DECnet?
>
> I guess conceptually you can serve web pages across any protocol that
> can carry HTTP.
>
> But I guess you could also have a client that ran over DECnet or need a
> gateway to TCP/IP.
>
> #confused #eagerToLearn
>
>
>
> --
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
>

Re: Nat Semi 16032 info discovered

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 04/29/2019 02:23 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:


On 4/29/19 9:30 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

Back in 1984 I had cloned a Logical Microcomputer Co. Genix system based on the 
Nat. Semi. 16032 chip set.  I had a dd
dump of the distribution on floppies, but that was unreadable.
I just found a binder with about an inch of fanfold printouts of all the device 
drivers, low-level system routines, boot
loaders, etc in c source format.

These were printed on my Honeywell "big iron" drum printer with a funny 
character set, so many of the ASCII 96
characters are printed using overprints.  Like, { shows as a < overprinted with 
(.
So, it might be tricky to scan and OCR it without training the OCR. Not sure 
anybody would be interested in it, anyway.

Jon

I have an image of the Genix source tape.
Will try to dig it up.



Oh, OK, then maybe there's no need to scan this stuff.

Jon

Re: Unknown 1970 Tapedrive

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 04/29/2019 02:25 PM, jos via cctalk wrote:
Was given a tapedrive in rather bad condition, but it has 
no manufacturers name on it.


Pics  on ftp://ftp.dreesen.ch/Tapedrive


Anyone recognizes this ? The paddle PCB says "paddle 
board, 7/9 level tape handler."


Not even sure if it is a computer tape drive or an 
instrument  / data logger...



I'm pretty sure it is a digital/computer drive.  It really 
looks military to me.  Possibly from some test gear.


Jon

Newest Batch of Items from Sellam's VWoCW Just Posted

[Sellam Ismail via cctalk]

Good Monday Evening (or Tuesday Morning if you are beyond the International
Dateline)!

Here is the latest batch of computers and boards and peripherals and things
that I've carefully curated for your consideration and consumption from my
collection:

Homebrew Small Form Factor S-100 System
Indus GT 5.25" Floppy Drive (Atari)
ADPI Easi-Disk 5.25" External Serial Disk Drive
Camwil Printwheel - Pica 10
Camwil Printwheel - Elite 12
Diablo Black Cloth Ribbon
Diablo HiType-I FIlm Ribbon (6 pack)
GP Technologies Printwheel - Titan Legal 10
Xerox Metal Printwheel - Titan Legal 10
Xerox Metal Printwheel - Vintage 12
Toshiba T1950CT Laptop
Toshiba T4900CT Laptop
Commodore 1311 Joystick (boxed)
Microsoft InPort Mouse w/Mouse Interface
Articulate Systems Voice Impact Pro
Dysan 100 MD2HD 5.25" Floppy Diskettes (10-pack)
Curtis Electro Devices PR5200B 32x8 Memory Programmer
Asante FriendlyNet Adapter
Perkin-Elmer PC AT Single T4 4 Meg Transputer
CompuPro CPU 8085/88
CompuPro CPU 8085/88 (incomplete)
CompuPro RAM16
CompuPro RAM21
Comrex The S100 TimePiece
JVB Electronics Spool-Z-Q 100
MATCO Data Products EPROM Emulator/Programmer
Morrow Designs MM256K
CompuPro/Viasyn SPUZ 64K
Viasyn Interfacer 3A (bare board)
Viasyn Interfacer 4 (bare board)
Atari XG-1 Light Gun
Atari XE Keyboard
IBM PCjr Internal Modem
IBM PCjr RF Modulator
MOS Technology KIM-1 (Rev. A)
Commodore KIM-1 (Rev. G)
Radio Shack TRS-80 64K Color Computer
DEC Celebris FP 590 PC

Links to information on these items and more can be found here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I53wxarLHlNmlPVf_HJ5oMKuab4zrApI_hiX0pNmy48/edit?pli=1#gid=949372371&range=A1

Photos are linked in the descriptions.  I will be going back and adding
photos for the last couple batches in the near future and will post an
update when they are up.

As ever, please contact me directly by e-mail via 
to inquire or make an offer on a particular item.

Thank you!

Sellam

Re: Greetings

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 12:44 PM allison via cctech
 wrote:
> On 04/29/2019 11:37 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> > On 04/29/2019 06:47 AM, allison via cctech wrote:
> >> On 04/28/2019 09:28 PM, Grant Taylor via cctech wrote:
> >>> On 4/28/19 6:27 PM, Ray Jewhurst wrote:
>  I already have a Hobbyist License.  I am just interested in
>  experimenting with different OSes and different versions of OSes.
> >>> ACK
> >>>
> >>> I don't know what VAX hardware VMS 1.5 supported, what VAX hardware
> >>> that Simh supports, or what the overlap is between the two.
> >>>
> >> You are limited to what the VAX-11/780 system had for peripherals and
> >> typically under 8MB ram (it maxed at 16mb).
>
> The typical environment during the DEC years '83-93 was a 780 with a
> 4-12mb and dozens of users or more.

We (by that I mean Software Results) had an 11/750 that started out
with 512K of RAM and quickly upgraded to 2MB.  I later bumped it up to
8MB (adding the backplane wire and replacing the memory controller)
and we ran 40+ users on it.

> In 83 that meant 3.2 or later and much of the time was V3.8 or 3.9 till
> maybe 86ish then V4 and soon after V5.

I first encountered VMS in late 1984.  I started off a just a user, so
I don't recall the version, but ISTR we upgraded to either V3.4 or
V3.6.  We stayed there for a while, but the MicroVAX I we got was
upgraded from, MicroVMS 1.0 to MicroVMS 4.0 as fast as that came out.
Eventually we did the upgrade path to 4.0 and beyond, pausing at 4.6
on that machine in part because we had a SI9900 controller (you had to
patch DRDRIVER.EXE to use all the cylinders of a Fuji Eagle) and in
part because we had customers who were still on V4.X.  I put
V5.something on an 11/730 and we used that box to link our product for
newer versions of VMS (after 1988).

When we shut everything down in 1993, we were still running VMS 4.6 on
that 11/750 and never needed to upgrade it past 8MB.  It did have
about 1GB on 4 spindles and 2 controllers.

> The years 83 and 84 I fondly remember V3.6 and later mostly V3.8...

I definitely remember V3.6 but I don't think we were on V3.8 for very
long before moving to V4.0.

> If memory serves V4 was the last that ran in 1meg, V5 pushed that higher
> as a 4 meg system was more common then.

I don't think I ever tried to run V4 in under 4MB (even our MicroVAX I
was maxxed out).  Or MicroVAX II had 9MB (and I think we had that one
on V5.4 for a while before moving to V5.5-1).  I think our VAX 8200
was on V5.4 for product development (COMBOARD for VAXBI) and it had no
less than 8MB (the total amount varied by how many slots we had to
free up by removing 2MB boards.

> However the Qbus uVAX has a RD54[system] and RD52[swap] on
> separate MSCP controllers
> for performance as thats where they bottlenecked when heavy swapping.

That sounds like fun - we never had enough hardware to pull that off.

> All my uVAXen have run from V4.4 [MicroVaxII/GPX] or later and my
> nominal version is 5.4.  Though I have a
> RZ56 with V7.2 on it.   All are physical hardware in the Qbus BA123
> realm and M3100 series.

Cool.  I've powered up the MicroVAX II in recent memory, and the VAX
8200 but I haven't fired up the 11/750 since the company folded.

> Running anything before V3 is painful as it was a build.  Also V1 was
> tied the 780 and that did PDP11 emulation
> mode for a lot of stuff.

Like I said, I started with V3.x so I missed out on the "joy".

> VMS changed a lot from 4.2 to 4.6, long file
> names are one that comes to mind as well as
> phase III and IV DECnet.

Yep.  Lots of changes, most of them improvements.

> That was a long time ago.

It sure was.

-ethan