Re: '90s era PC recommendation.
On Mon, 7 May 2018 at 05:10, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > I remember my AMD K6-II fondly. I ran a Cyrix 6x86-P166+ for a while as my main PC and it was a lovely machine. Alas, I needed to review one of the last versions of Aldus PageMaker and it wouldn't run on a Cyrix chip -- only on Intel. That drove me to get a new box -- a PII-450 which served me well for several years. https://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/49259.html But they were good chips. Some unfortunate software accidents more or less killed them. As that blog post says, I'm still waiting for Via to do something interesting, but they don't seem to be interested. -- Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: '90s era PC recommendation.
> From: Grant Taylor > Does anyone have any recommendations for a '90s era PC that has PCI and > ISA slots? I have a bunch of HP machines, which are still in heavy use (although upgraded to Celerons with the PowerLeap iP3/T thingys). Vectra VL6/S8's and VLi8s. I'm very fond of them - solidly built, well engineered, quite reliable, etc. The VL5/S4-5 and VL6/S6-7, etc are also OK (very similar, same build quality), but I prefer the /S8's as they have the 100MHz memory bus. Noel
Re: '90s era PC recommendation.
On 05/07/2018 06:28 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > I ran a Cyrix 6x86-P166+ for a while as my main PC and it was a lovely > machine. I think I had a Cyrix CPU in an Acer Aspire that I had years ago. It served me well. Though I didn't do much that would push the system. > But they were good chips. Some unfortunate software accidents more or > less killed them. Ya. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
Re: '90s era PC recommendation.
On 05/06/2018 12:18 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > Years ago I had a Compaq desktop that had PCI and EISA slots. I'm trying > to re-acquire it from the friend that it went to. Lo and behold the friend that has the old Compaq desktop agreed to sell it to me. Presumably it's still in working condition. It does have EISA and PCI slots as well as what seems to be called a Vocalist keyboard from Compaq. I /think/ it's a Compaq Deskpro XL 560, but I'm not completely sure on the specific model. Here's a quick link with some overview of the Deskpro XL line. Link - Compaq Deskpro XL Desktop PC series - https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c00355459/ -- Grant. . . . unix || die
Re: '90s era PC recommendation.
On 5/7/2018 10:47 AM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: On 05/06/2018 12:18 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: Years ago I had a Compaq desktop that had PCI and EISA slots. I'm trying to re-acquire it from the friend that it went to. Lo and behold the friend that has the old Compaq desktop agreed to sell it to me. Presumably it's still in working condition. It does have EISA and PCI slots as well as what seems to be called a Vocalist keyboard from Compaq. I /think/ it's a Compaq Deskpro XL 560, but I'm not completely sure on the specific model. Here's a quick link with some overview of the Deskpro XL line. Link - Compaq Deskpro XL Desktop PC series - https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c00355459/ Unless you have a old copy of DOS, what OS can you get for the OLD MACHINES? Ben.
Re: '90s era PC recommendation.
On 05/07/2018 01:12 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: Unless you have a old copy of DOS, what OS can you get for the OLD MACHINES? I have multiple copies of older OSs that will run on the machine. DOS / Windows: MS-DOS, PC-DOS, DR-DOS, FreeDOS, Windows 3.x, Windows 9x, Windows NT 3.x, Windows NT 4 Novell: NetWare 3.x, 4.x, 5.x, maybe 6.x OS/2: Warp 3, Warp 4 Linux: (multiple) FreeBSD: (multiple) SCO OpenServer 5., UnixWare 7. I'd like to get my hands on Banyan Vines and / or Artisoft LANtastic to play with things. }:-) I don't know how much memory is installed in the machine. But i would expect that various versions of all of the above can install and run on a machine with between 16 MB and 64 MB. As for drive, anything between 200 MB and 2 GB will likely work. I know that I've had Linux installed on the machine before. There are a LOT of options on such machines. One thing that I really like is the fact that it's a combination of PCI and EISA bus. Which means that I can mess with just about any add-on / expansion card that I want to. — Save for MCA and VLB. Though I doubt that I'll want to play with those cards. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
R: '90s era PC recommendation.
Windows from 1.x up to 98 SE Linux / bsd OS/2 NextStep BeOS likely Novell Netware Likely forgot something -Messaggio originale- Da: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] Per conto di ben via cctalk Inviato: lunedì 7 maggio 2018 21:12 A: cctalk@classiccmp.org Oggetto: Re: '90s era PC recommendation. On 5/7/2018 10:47 AM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > On 05/06/2018 12:18 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: >> Years ago I had a Compaq desktop that had PCI and EISA slots. I'm trying >> to re-acquire it from the friend that it went to. > > Lo and behold the friend that has the old Compaq desktop agreed to sell > it to me. Presumably it's still in working condition. > > It does have EISA and PCI slots as well as what seems to be called a > Vocalist keyboard from Compaq. > > I /think/ it's a Compaq Deskpro XL 560, but I'm not completely sure on > the specific model. > > Here's a quick link with some overview of the Deskpro XL line. > > Link - Compaq Deskpro XL Desktop PC series > - https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c00355459/ > Unless you have a old copy of DOS, what OS can you get for the OLD MACHINES? Ben.
TRS-80s available: Ottawa, ON, Canada
A friend and colleage of mine says he has two TRS-80s available, or perhaps very soon to be available, in Ottawa (the capital of Canada). He says he knows very little about them; apparently it's been something like a decade since they were even taken out of the boxes. For further information, I'd suggest contacting him directly - I haven't even so much as seen the boxes they're in. luc...@gmail.com is the address he gave me to pass along. Mouse
Re: '90s era PC recommendation.
On Mon, 7 May 2018, ben via cctalk wrote: Unless you have a old copy of DOS, what OS can you get for the OLD MACHINES? MS-DOS will, of course, work for all. Xenix 3.0 (1984?) worked with 8088, 512K RAM, 10MB disk. Microsoft had a license for Unix, since 1978, but NOT for the "Unix" name. By mid 1980s, Microsoft had the highest volume AT&T Unix license. Windows 3.00 is the last Windows that will work with an 8088. Windows 3.10 wants a 286, won't install without A20, with 64K of RAM above 1MB (640K, or even 512K in main RAM, and 64K of Extended RAM) Officially? it needs 2MB, but that is not true. It would like VGA, but "Hercules" MDA works. It WILL work with CGA (640x200), using the Win3.0 driver. It looked at the time that Microsoft porgrammers were using 800x600, because that is the only one that really looked "right". Win95 wants a 386 or above. (SX was limited to 16MB of RAM, which prob'ly won't work) Win98 said that it "needs" 486, but 386 works. Notice that Windoze was in an "I386" directory. BUT, MICROS~1 often blurred the lines between what was "NEEDED" V what was "RECOMMENDED". Performance issues with Windoze made the "recommendations" more important. And ANY complaints about performance, if answered at all, were answered with implications of personal inadequacy, "solution" of having you throw hardware at it, and variants of "233 MHZ Pentium?? I'm amazed that it would even RUN on that!" "Deskpro XL?? That's almost 6 months old! What kind of performance would you expect from something that ancient?" XP calls for a 233MHz with 64MB RAM, 1.5GB disk space, 800x600 display. Vista calls for 1GHZ, 1GB Win7 same, but requires internet connection (during installation) Most will probably run on 386DX, with unacceptable performance. But, Windoze has raised "unacceptable performance" to a level where even we can't tolerate it! I thought that I could tolerate slow turn-around for batch processing, such as "Handbrake", but I eventually broke down and bought performance. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: '90s era PC recommendation.
Unless you have a old copy of DOS, what OS can you get for the OLD MACHINES? MS-DOS will, of course, work for all. That should read MS-DOS will, of course, work for all PCs. (for some definition of "PC", that usually means 5150 derived clone) MS-DOS will most certainly NOT work for all OLD MACHINES. For OLD MACHINES, you will need to locate whatever OS went with it. CP/M, for example, was for 8080, 8085, Z80, with a few other requirements such as memory map (TRS80 required relocating memory, or relocating CP/M to work) The Epson RC-20 (wrist watch) had a Z80 compatible processor, RAM, ROM, etc., but nobody ever ported a version of CP/M to it. I no longer have access to the "ROM-Roader", so I don't think that I can resurrect mine. I should see if my Fossil Palm-OS watch still works.
Re: '90s era PC recommendation.
On 05/07/2018 07:38 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Mon, 7 May 2018, ben via cctalk wrote: >> Unless you have a old copy of DOS, what OS can you get for the OLD >> MACHINES? > > MS-DOS will, of course, work for all. > > Xenix 3.0 (1984?) worked with 8088, 512K RAM, 10MB disk. > Microsoft had a license for Unix, since 1978, but NOT for the "Unix" > name. > By mid 1980s, Microsoft had the highest volume AT&T Unix license. > > > Windows 3.00 is the last Windows that will work with an 8088. > > Windows 3.10 wants a 286, won't install without A20, with 64K of RAM > above 1MB (640K, or even 512K in main RAM, and 64K of Extended RAM) > Officially? it needs 2MB, but that is not true. > It would like VGA, but "Hercules" MDA works. > It WILL work with CGA (640x200), using the Win3.0 driver. > It looked at the time that Microsoft porgrammers were using 800x600, > because that is the only one that really looked "right". > > Win95 wants a 386 or above. > (SX was limited to 16MB of RAM, which prob'ly won't work) > > Win98 said that it "needs" 486, but 386 works. > > Notice that Windoze was in an "I386" directory. > > BUT, MICROS~1 often blurred the lines between what was "NEEDED" V what > was "RECOMMENDED". Performance issues with Windoze made the > "recommendations" more important. And ANY complaints about > performance, if answered at all, were answered with implications of > personal inadequacy, "solution" of having you throw hardware at it, > and variants of "233 MHZ Pentium?? I'm amazed that it would even RUN > on that!" > "Deskpro XL?? That's almost 6 months old! What kind of performance > would you expect from something that ancient?" > > XP calls for a 233MHz with 64MB RAM, 1.5GB disk space, 800x600 display. > > Vista calls for 1GHZ, 1GB > > Win7 same, but requires internet connection (during installation) > > > Most will probably run on 386DX, with unacceptable performance. > > But, Windoze has raised "unacceptable performance" to a level where > even we can't tolerate it! > I thought that I could tolerate slow turn-around for batch processing, > such as "Handbrake", but I eventually broke down and bought performance. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com My old dell 486DX/66, 32mb, 800xx600 video pizza box runs 3.11 95, 98, NT4. NT4 does run slowly but for testing it proved near impossible to crunch. DOS and 3.11 runs like the wind on that. I keep the box for ISA-8/16 bus needs. I have minix for it and a old Slackware linux as well. The only yabut is the disk must be partitioned 500meg for the first as the BIOS can't figure out larger so all the disks have a 500/and remainder partition. I swap drives as needed for what OS is in need. I have two as they are good fairly compact boxes. I must have at least five WD4.3gb drives with various OSes plus a few 500mb drives with win3.11/DOS. For occasional needs I have a Compaq 333/384meg box that also has ISA and PCI for those needs. Its handy when I need a low end classic with Ethernet, USB plus all the legacy ports. Fair linux machine running Ubuntu 10.4 on a 20gb drive. And a white box Celeron 1ghz/1gb box for more modern needs. It happens to have a single ISA slot plus the usual PCI. I got that MB new back in '03 real cheap as the board was being phased out but the shop had one new but not much interest for celeron. ITs plus is all the legacy IO, USB, decent VGA, and Ethernet. The legacy IO keeps it around after all what can't you do with a parallel port! Alternate systems for utility work are epia-M board (ITX) also 1ghz/1gb all running Ubuntu linux version 10.4 as it has very low needs. They are good for IO as most of the ITX board have serial, parallel, USB, Ethernet, good VGA, S-video, sound, and PS2 mouse and keyboard. Good enough to run a HP4L and CUPS. or logging for field day. Allison
Re: '90s era PC recommendation.
Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > Does anyone have any recommendations for a '90s era PC that has PCI and > ISA slots? Ideally I'd like to have EISA slots too. ? At least I > think that's what I want. EISA is a nice-to-have, especially if you want to run multiple interfaces (much better irq handling than ISA) and/or higher speed stuff like FDDI, 100Mb enet, T-3/ATM, etc. Or you already have a cache of EISA cards. That said (and this is x86 specific, because there's a whole HPPA EISA world I don't know a lot about with all sorts of weird stuff): 1) PCI does a better job..usually. 2) EISA motherboards, desktop machines and fun/exotic network cards seem to be getting increasingly rare and ridiculously expensive, at least on evil auction sites. On the other hand, 10Mb EISA ethernet and scsi cards are chump change. 3) There are some interesting network things that just don't seem to have ever been made for EISA. For example, I've never heard of a fibre ethernet or HSSI card for EISA. 4) I think EISA limits you to 386 through PII CPUs (and probably PII as a PPro Overdrive upgrade outside of a server class machine). At least, I can't think of a P3 machine with EISA. YMMV. 5) The video card options are a bit thin on EISA. The Compaq QVision VGA is common as dirt (and just as dumb), but outside of that the ELSA Winner and ATI Mach32 are the only "real" graphics cards I seem to see often. There's probably some awful TIGA boards out there somewhere. Go PCI. I held on to a couple of Intel Xpress machines for the EISA bus. I doubt I'd pay the premium over a solid PCI/ISA machine. Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > Depends on your CPU needs, but if you're willing to settle for P2/P3 era, > anything using the Intel i440BX or GX generally has very good ISA support. Yeah, but didn't the GX (and KX) have some pretty serious bugs until really late steppings? Same to a lesser extent with the NX. The BX (and FX) however was very reliable, as I recall. Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > I've long had a soft spot for the Pentium Pro. Yeah, me too. Great chip with a long useful life. I ran a couple of Intel PR440FX based machine for years past their expiration date because they kept up with the load and just wouldn't die. > A LONG time ago I saw an advertisement for a system that could accept six > Pentium Pros. ALR Revolution server, probably. NCR and Corollary made 8-ways. > I /think/ it's a Compaq Deskpro XL 560 Great machine; built like a tank. Much better quality than the Xpress. I had an XL 6200 (200Mhz PPro) for many years and still regret getting rid of it. Lucky you you got yours back. The HP Vectra XU was also pretty nice.
Re: '90s era PC recommendation.
On 05/07/2018 07:52 PM, Ken Seefried via cctalk wrote: > Yeah, but didn't the GX (and KX) have some pretty serious bugs until > really late steppings? Same to a lesser extent with the NX. The BX > (and FX) however was very reliable, as I recall. I can only speak for my SuperMicro dual slot-1 P3 board and 440GX. 2GB of server memory with both CPUs running at 1GHz. Never a hiccup on either XP and Linux. I can get the things to run at 120MHz FSB, but any higher than that, it gets squirrely. But then 440 was rated only for a 100MHz FSB. > Yeah, me too. Great chip with a long useful life. I ran a couple of > Intel PR440FX based machine for years past their expiration date > because they kept up with the load and just wouldn't die. P3s are a dime a dozen, still, so paying a premium for PPro doesn't make much sense today, unless someone just *gives* you a system. I can tell you what *not* to buy--I've got an FIC board with an Intel 820 chipset and used to have a server board with an 840 chipset. RDRAM--runs hot, expensive and not much better than much cheaper-find-it-under-your-bed-cheap SDRAM. And the 820/840 was well-known for infestation of bugs. Why Intel ever went down that road, I'll never know. > Great machine; built like a tank. Much better quality than the > Xpress. I had an XL 6200 (200Mhz PPro) for many years and still > regret getting rid of it. Lucky you you got yours back. The HP Vectra > XU was also pretty nice. It's hard to beat old Compaq stuff. I've got an old Deskpro tower with a P3 (upgraded with a slocket to 1.4GHz). 440BX chipset Nice thing--the expansion cards are on a slide-out sub-chassis. Heavy bugger, though. I liked some of the old HP towers as well for ease of access. --Chuck
HP 3000/37 console
Does anyone know if a non-HP terminal will work as the console for a HP 3000 Series 37? The power-on self-test uses ENQ/ACK to speed sense, but the manual also implies that it will sense speed from a . On my 37, the TIC self-test passes up to the point where it talks to the terminal, but fails to to speed sense. Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
RE: HP 3000/37 console
has to be a hp term. as far as I know Mike or a,3ed party emulator. i imagine a pc running hp terminal software might work. ... walker ritcher quin REFLECTIONS. software might be OK too.. ,ed# Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Monday, May 7, 2018 Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote: Does anyone know if a non-HP terminal will work as the console for a HP 3000 Series 37? The power-on self-test uses ENQ/ACK to speed sense, but the manual also implies that it will sense speed from a . On my 37, the TIC self-test passes up to the point where it talks to the terminal, but fails to to speed sense. Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
