Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[Peter Corlett]

On Sat, Oct 08, 2016 at 04:20:55PM -0700, Chuck Guzis wrote:
[...]
> Still don't. Playing a computer game is about as entertaining to me as
> putting my money into an online slot machine.

Find better games :)

The theme of this list means that I should recommend some retro games and
gaming systems, but those old games generally lacked depth and tried to cover
it up by making the game insanely difficult and relying on extremely good
timing and motor skills. I never really got on with retro games.

There are still plenty of mindless first-person shooters with no depth coming
out, but at least there are more gems to be found amongst the rough. I rather
enjoyed the two Portal games, which superficially look like shooters -- your
interface with its universe is called a Portal gun -- it's really a 3D puzzle
game with some interesting plot twists. Goat Simulator is a bizarre sandbox in
which there is the minimum of game elements required to hold all the satirical
easter eggs together.

Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[jim stephens]

On 10/9/2016 1:58 AM, Peter Corlett wrote:

Playing a computer game is about as entertaining to me as
>putting my money into an online slot machine.

Find better games
I'm more interested in the technology of the implementing games, and the 
coming VR that
might be interesting.  Remote reality is now possibly in reach. 
Certainly forms of it are used
at JPL for the Mars Rover projects.   You can go in a room, wonder 
around and bend down and
look at things with their telepresence technologies.  For quite a long 
time.


Also though maybe not a video game, Microsoft FS-X is amazing.  I'd love 
to have the room, resources
and time to hook up a reasonable simulator.  But going around shooting 
bad guys and looking at random
scores, boring.  Adventure pretty much was the diversion, never have 
looked back.  What I get from that
game doesn't need graphics, and has as much fun to me as you could have 
with all the gamer stuff.


I thank games for bringing out incredible power to desktop systems, I 
use them for build servers and
the like.  Games, not so much.  I wish I had time to get into the GPU 
processing, but maybe someday,

right now not enough time.

--
Note change in email address.  Please use reply-to
address.  TWC is changing their email and this may
change again reply to is jwsm...@jwsss.com

RE: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[Dave G4UGM]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brad H
> Sent: 09 October 2016 07:41
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> ; jwsm...@jwsss.com
> Subject: Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]
> 
> 
> 
> I'd like to learn more about programming, esp for my 6800.  It'd be fun to 
> test
> its limits and see what uses I can find for the graphics board I got. I just 
> don't
> understand how they programmed the thing. All the hex stuff throws me
> off.  :)

Does it have a serial interface and memory. In which case it was probably 
programmed in Assembler. 
When I started with 6800 board and 256 bytes of memory, and toggle switches to 
load it I used to hand assemble the programs to get the hex/binary.
I soon got bored of the toggle switches and built a little box with an old 
calculator keyboard and display and some TTL so I could enter data quickly.


Dave

Re: ka... ching!

[Peter Corlett]

On Mon, Oct 03, 2016 at 08:28:50AM -0700, Ali wrote:
[Amiga 3000s]
>> I'm not surprised that someone would _ask_ EUR800, but are they *getting*
>> it?

They relisted it at EUR720 and now again for EUR695, so I assume that they
would accept at EUR650 offer. I had made a EUR500 offer last time, maybe I'll
offer EUR450 this time to make a point.

It's not like I don't already have several other Amigas to be getting on with
until realisation dawns on this seller.

> And just like that the price of the A3000 goes up. :) Although, to be fair
> though it seems that things do sell for more overseas. I've always chucked it
> up to a lack of supply but that really would not explain the Amiga. I would
> think they would be more plentiful in Europe...

The A3000 was extremely rare in the UK as most Amigas were bought for gaming so
it was mainly A500s and A1200s. I found sales figures for Germany where this
eBay seller is, and the A3000 was by far the least popular machine there with
just 8,300 sales, versus 1.1M for the A500 and 100k for the A1200.

Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[Chuck Guzis]

On 10/09/2016 01:58 AM, Peter Corlett wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 08, 2016 at 04:20:55PM -0700, Chuck Guzis wrote: [...]
>> Still don't. Playing a computer game is about as entertaining to me
>> as putting my money into an online slot machine.
> 
> Find better games :)

Nope, not even.  Has as much appeal as base jumping.  I'd rather be
working my shop banging on some sheet metal or playing tuba--or
splitting firewood.

We're all different--and some of us don't like to play games.

--Chuck

Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[ethan]

 Just like the car collecting, comic book collection and just about 
most other hobbies when they mature.  The same type of people who


The comic book market crashed due to the flipping side of it as far as I 
know. When it changes from a hobby to a speculative mania, I suppose that 
is when things eventually explode?


They can go on a lot longer if backed by the government and low interest 
rates, see speculation in housing. Plus weak returns in other markets.


Unlike basic needs like the housing market bubble (which has yet to crash, 
but probably will which isn't a bad thing) hobbies like Classic Computers 
probably have interest waves. Certain people who grew up with such and 
such hold it dear. Eventually interest in it will probably fade as the 
people with memories of the subject fufill reliving the experience, or 
die. And there is a lot of money to be made, then vendors might swoop in 
to make cash (see Roland and Yamaha with their recent Botique recreations 
of vintage analog synthesizers.)


Also for much of the younger generation housing costs are so high (and 
perhaps job opportunities weak) that collecting things becomes more of a 
burden. It costs a lot of time to move stuff from apartment to apartment, 
and money to store it. Buying a house with low prospects of job stability 
is also a risk and can damage chances of relocating for jobs after 
layoffs. The damage of the years of offshoring and outsourcing is hidden 
behind the national debt, student loan debt and housing debt.


Also there is some sort of American obsession with flipping stuff. A lot 
less shows about building new things versus shows about flipping stuff (be 
it Pawn shops, Storage Units, American Pickers type stuff, and of course 
-- housing flip shows.)

Re: TPC-I back in one piece (was Re: TeleVideo progress)

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Ian S. King

> What I want to record here for posterity is how to open one of these
> things.

I archived this to the Computer History wiki:

  http://gunkies.org/wiki/TeleVideo_TPC-1

Hope that was OK!

Noel

RE: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[tony duell]

> > Find better games :)
> 
> Nope, not even.  Has as much appeal as base jumping.  I'd rather be

I think I'm with you on this one. The only computer games I find even
mildly interesting are ones that involve thought and/or hackery to
complete. I found the HP67 Games Pac (A set of programs for a 
handheld calculator with a numeric display) to be much more
entertaining than anything on a modern console.

But even so, I even enjoy those games that much. Relaxation for
me is reading the service manual for something I don't own,
figuring out what the schematics really mean, etc. Or mindlessly
stuffing a PCB. 

-tony

Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[Brad H]

Flipping is just treasure hunting by another name.  Estate and storage locker 
sales are the modern equivalent of digging for pirate gold.  I think people 
worldwide love that stuff but particularly Americans because they have that 
brash adventurer spirit embedded in the national character.


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: et...@757.org 
Date: 2016-10-09  8:46 AM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Cc: gene...@classiccmp.org 
Subject: Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!] 

>>>  Just like the car collecting, comic book collection and just about 
>>> most other hobbies when they mature.  The same type of people who

The comic book market crashed due to the flipping side of it as far as I 
know. When it changes from a hobby to a speculative mania, I suppose that 
is when things eventually explode?

They can go on a lot longer if backed by the government and low interest 
rates, see speculation in housing. Plus weak returns in other markets.

Unlike basic needs like the housing market bubble (which has yet to crash, 
but probably will which isn't a bad thing) hobbies like Classic Computers 
probably have interest waves. Certain people who grew up with such and 
such hold it dear. Eventually interest in it will probably fade as the 
people with memories of the subject fufill reliving the experience, or 
die. And there is a lot of money to be made, then vendors might swoop in 
to make cash (see Roland and Yamaha with their recent Botique recreations 
of vintage analog synthesizers.)

Also for much of the younger generation housing costs are so high (and 
perhaps job opportunities weak) that collecting things becomes more of a 
burden. It costs a lot of time to move stuff from apartment to apartment, 
and money to store it. Buying a house with low prospects of job stability 
is also a risk and can damage chances of relocating for jobs after 
layoffs. The damage of the years of offshoring and outsourcing is hidden 
behind the national debt, student loan debt and housing debt.

Also there is some sort of American obsession with flipping stuff. A lot 
less shows about building new things versus shows about flipping stuff (be 
it Pawn shops, Storage Units, American Pickers type stuff, and of course 
-- housing flip shows.)

Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[COURYHOUSE]

no real interest in  playing games though the curiously ofseeing  star 
trek game on  friends  Digital Group Computer   ( had little screen in the 
front of it... I want  one  for SMECC   display  working or  not)
group and  getting a baudot   teletype  model 14  lead to me starting a  
computer  company  in 1979...
 
The big and best  game for me was THE HARDWARE  and   running  timeshare 
systems  ) hp-2000 then  later  hp-3000  later   also became  full line  
Independent HP PC  products  dealer but  that  was  just selling  stuff   
not 
 the  feel of  thrill and adventure   the  other  phases  had!
 
 
Ed#   _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org)  
 
 
In a message dated 10/9/2016 9:07:45 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
a...@p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes:


>  > Find better games :)
> 
> Nope, not even.  Has as much  appeal as base jumping.  I'd rather be

I think I'm with you on  this one. The only computer games I find even
mildly interesting are ones  that involve thought and/or hackery to
complete. I found the HP67 Games Pac  (A set of programs for a 
handheld calculator with a numeric display) to be  much more
entertaining than anything on a modern console.

But even  so, I even enjoy those games that much. Relaxation for
me is reading the  service manual for something I don't own,
figuring out what the schematics  really mean, etc. Or mindlessly
stuffing a PCB.  

-tony
=

RE: Blown Tantalum Capacitor Advice

[shadoooo]

Hello Rob,
I'm quite sure that the tantalum explosion has nothing to do with the
spin-up failure.
Indeed the RD53 (Micropolis) is infamous for a problem in the head
positioning shock absorber.
The head positioning system is based on a voicecoil inserted in the
magnetic field; the angle covered by the head arm is limited by two
adjustable metal limits originally covered with rubber.
At startup the mechanism is moved back and forth to check the two limits,
and exactly at the ends a special magnetic pattern is recorded on the
surface of the disks for calibration.
Due to age, the rubber becomes goo, so the angle limits become wider, so
during the calibration the head falls offer the calibration area and
spin-up fails.
The suggestion is to choose a clean room with few dust and a good lighting,
carefully open the top cover of the disc, and remove the goo the more as
possible using adsorbent sticks.
Be sure not to touch the disc surface with the goo accidentally.
Then try to insert some small pieces of paper over one limit (if I'm not
wrong the failing is the left) in place of the missing rubber, and try the
disc, and continue to add thickness until it works.
Then you are sure about the right limit to move.
Then remove the paper, loosen a little the screw, but just a little so the
limit will not move unless pushed with some strength and a screwdriver.
Then move a very small amount towards the center and try, then repeat trial
and error until the disc starts. Then tight the screw and it is over.
Close the disc and voila.

Andrea

RE: Blown Tantalum Capacitor Advice

[Rob Jarratt]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of shad
> Sent: 09 October 2016 18:30
> To: cctalk 
> Subject: RE: Blown Tantalum Capacitor Advice
> 
> Hello Rob,
> I'm quite sure that the tantalum explosion has nothing to do with the spin-up
> failure.
> Indeed the RD53 (Micropolis) is infamous for a problem in the head
> positioning shock absorber.
> The head positioning system is based on a voicecoil inserted in the magnetic
> field; the angle covered by the head arm is limited by two adjustable metal
> limits originally covered with rubber.
> At startup the mechanism is moved back and forth to check the two limits,
> and exactly at the ends a special magnetic pattern is recorded on the surface
> of the disks for calibration.
> Due to age, the rubber becomes goo, so the angle limits become wider, so
> during the calibration the head falls offer the calibration area and spin-up
> fails.
> The suggestion is to choose a clean room with few dust and a good lighting,
> carefully open the top cover of the disc, and remove the goo the more as
> possible using adsorbent sticks.
> Be sure not to touch the disc surface with the goo accidentally.
> Then try to insert some small pieces of paper over one limit (if I'm not wrong
> the failing is the left) in place of the missing rubber, and try the disc, and
> continue to add thickness until it works.
> Then you are sure about the right limit to move.
> Then remove the paper, loosen a little the screw, but just a little so the 
> limit
> will not move unless pushed with some strength and a screwdriver.
> Then move a very small amount towards the center and try, then repeat trial
> and error until the disc starts. Then tight the screw and it is over.
> Close the disc and voila.

Thanks Andrea. I have done this with other RD53s, but not gone as far as 
loosening the screws. Unfortunately I have failed so far with this particular 
disk and will try again another day. I suspect though that in this case the goo 
has spread more widely in the mechanism and gummed it up elsewhere, making the 
whole thing a bit sticky. I'd like to find a way to clean it more thoroughly.

Regards

Rob

RE: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[Fred Cisin]

> Find better games :)
Nope, not even.  Has as much appeal as base jumping.  I'd rather be


On Sun, 9 Oct 2016, tony duell wrote:

I think I'm with you on this one. The only computer games I find even


Douglas Adams was instrumental in a few games.
But, somebody once asked him what he most liked to play with on his Mac. 
He said The Desktop.

RE: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[tony duell]

> Douglas Adams was instrumental in a few games.
> But, somebody once asked him what he most liked to play with on his Mac.
> He said The Desktop.

I was once asked 'What do you watch on TV?'

I replied without thinking 'The final anode voltage'

-tony

Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[Mouse]

>> Still don't. Playing a computer game is about as entertaining to me
>> as putting my money into an online slot machine.
> Find better games :)

Heh.  Not everybody thinks the same way, and some people just don't
react to games the way you (or I) do.

> The theme of this list means that I should recommend some retro games
> and gaming systems, but those old games generally lacked depth and
> tried to cover it up by making the game insanely difficult and
> relying on extremely good timing and motor skills.

To a point, perhaps.  But some of the old games were just _good_.  My
own favourite is Tempest, one of the few colour vector games.  24
_kilo_bytes for the entire game, and it's still one of the most
engaging games I've ever played.

> I rather enjoyed the two Portal games,

Me too - well, the first one; I think I haven't played the second.  But
I like puzzle games.  I also greatly enjoyed Swapper - the first new
game mechanic I'd seen since Portal, and its author(s?) built a highly
engaging puzzle game around it.

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
 X  Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email!   7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

Re: TPC-I back in one piece (was Re: TeleVideo progress)

[Ian S. King]

Fine by me!  My intent was to see the information shared.  I've been helped
by the experiences others have shared here and elsewhere, so I'm glad to
return the favor.  :-)

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 8:55 AM, Noel Chiappa 
wrote:

> > From: Ian S. King
>
> > What I want to record here for posterity is how to open one of these
> > things.
>
> I archived this to the Computer History wiki:
>
>   http://gunkies.org/wiki/TeleVideo_TPC-1
>
> Hope that was OK!
>
> Noel
>



-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[Ian S. King]

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 2:37 AM, Dave G4UGM  wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brad H
> > Sent: 09 October 2016 07:41
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > ; jwsm...@jwsss.com
> > Subject: Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]
> >
> >
> >
> > I'd like to learn more about programming, esp for my 6800.  It'd be fun
> to test
> > its limits and see what uses I can find for the graphics board I got. I
> just don't
> > understand how they programmed the thing. All the hex stuff throws me
> > off.  :)
>
> Does it have a serial interface and memory. In which case it was probably
> programmed in Assembler.
> When I started with 6800 board and 256 bytes of memory, and toggle
> switches to load it I used to hand assemble the programs to get the
> hex/binary.
> I soon got bored of the toggle switches and built a little box with an old
> calculator keyboard and display and some TTL so I could enter data quickly.
>
>
> Dave
>
> I recently acquired a SWTPC 6800, a machine I remember from when it was
new.  :-)  There are many programming environments available for it - I'm
working to get Forth running on mine, then I'll branch out.

It's been said that the 6800 inherited a lot of ideas from the PDP-8, and I
agree with that to some extent.  The ISA is actually very clean and neat,
once you wrap your head around it - I used to program 6800 assembler
professionally, my first paid job as a programmer!  Unlike the PDP-8, I/O
is memory-mapped.  Depending on what monitor ROM you have (if any), you may
have different system services available.  One very useful system is the
one that can read S-records from the serial input, allowing you to easily
transfer programs onto the machine.

If you want to grok the 6800 in fullness, there are online scans of
Motorola's programming manual for the device.  Another great resource is
the swtpc.com site, even if you don't have a SWTPC machine (what do you
have?).

Have fun with it!  Cheers -- Ian

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[Brad H]

 Original message 
From: "Ian S. King"  
Date: 2016-10-09  2:30 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!] 

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 2:37 AM, Dave G4UGM  wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brad H
> > Sent: 09 October 2016 07:41
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > ; jwsm...@jwsss.com
> > Subject: Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]
> >
> >
> >
> > I'd like to learn more about programming, esp for my 6800.  It'd be fun
> to test
> > its limits and see what uses I can find for the graphics board I got. I
> just don't
> > understand how they programmed the thing. All the hex stuff throws me
> > off.  :)
>
> Does it have a serial interface and memory. In which case it was probably
> programmed in Assembler.
> When I started with 6800 board and 256 bytes of memory, and toggle
> switches to load it I used to hand assemble the programs to get the
> hex/binary.
> I soon got bored of the toggle switches and built a little box with an old
> calculator keyboard and display and some TTL so I could enter data quickly.
>
>
> Dave
>
> I recently acquired a SWTPC 6800, a machine I remember from when it was
new.  :-)  There are many programming environments available for it - I'm
working to get Forth running on mine, then I'll branch out.

It's been said that the 6800 inherited a lot of ideas from the PDP-8, and I
agree with that to some extent.  The ISA is actually very clean and neat,
once you wrap your head around it - I used to program 6800 assembler
professionally, my first paid job as a programmer!  Unlike the PDP-8, I/O
is memory-mapped.  Depending on what monitor ROM you have (if any), you may
have different system services available.  One very useful system is the
one that can read S-records from the serial input, allowing you to easily
transfer programs onto the machine.

If you want to grok the 6800 in fullness, there are online scans of
Motorola's programming manual for the device.  Another great resource is
the swtpc.com site, even if you don't have a SWTPC machine (what do you
have?).

Have fun with it!  Cheers -- Ian

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

>There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon >could go to China."

I've an original SWTPC 6800.  Also have an ASCI System X and a Tektronix 6800 
board bucket.  Right now I'm enjoying working with the SWTPC.  I'm trying to 
deck it out as completely as one could have.
I don't quite understand assembly.. I assume to program in that, as with BASIC 
you need to load an 'assembler' language first?  I tried this with my Digital 
Group system with 5 different tapes marked 'assembler' but never got them to 
load.  Not sure if I understand the concept.

Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[Ian S. King]

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Brad H 
wrote:

>
>
>  Original message 
> From: "Ian S. King" 
> Date: 2016-10-09  2:30 PM  (GMT-08:00)
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]
>
> On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 2:37 AM, Dave G4UGM  wrote:
>
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brad
> H
> > > Sent: 09 October 2016 07:41
> > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > > ; jwsm...@jwsss.com
> > > Subject: Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I'd like to learn more about programming, esp for my 6800.  It'd be fun
> > to test
> > > its limits and see what uses I can find for the graphics board I got. I
> > just don't
> > > understand how they programmed the thing. All the hex stuff throws me
> > > off.  :)
> >
> > Does it have a serial interface and memory. In which case it was probably
> > programmed in Assembler.
> > When I started with 6800 board and 256 bytes of memory, and toggle
> > switches to load it I used to hand assemble the programs to get the
> > hex/binary.
> > I soon got bored of the toggle switches and built a little box with an
> old
> > calculator keyboard and display and some TTL so I could enter data
> quickly.
> >
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > I recently acquired a SWTPC 6800, a machine I remember from when it was
> new.  :-)  There are many programming environments available for it - I'm
> working to get Forth running on mine, then I'll branch out.
>
> It's been said that the 6800 inherited a lot of ideas from the PDP-8, and I
> agree with that to some extent.  The ISA is actually very clean and neat,
> once you wrap your head around it - I used to program 6800 assembler
> professionally, my first paid job as a programmer!  Unlike the PDP-8, I/O
> is memory-mapped.  Depending on what monitor ROM you have (if any), you may
> have different system services available.  One very useful system is the
> one that can read S-records from the serial input, allowing you to easily
> transfer programs onto the machine.
>
> If you want to grok the 6800 in fullness, there are online scans of
> Motorola's programming manual for the device.  Another great resource is
> the swtpc.com site, even if you don't have a SWTPC machine (what do you
> have?).
>
> Have fun with it!  Cheers -- Ian
>
> --
> Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
> The Information School 
> Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
> Narrative Through a Design Lens
>
> Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
> Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 
>
> University of Washington
>
> >There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon >could go to China."
>
> I've an original SWTPC 6800.  Also have an ASCI System X and a Tektronix
> 6800 board bucket.  Right now I'm enjoying working with the SWTPC.  I'm
> trying to deck it out as completely as one could have.
> I don't quite understand assembly.. I assume to program in that, as with
> BASIC you need to load an 'assembler' language first?  I tried this with my
> Digital Group system with 5 different tapes marked 'assembler' but never
> got them to load.  Not sure if I understand the concept.


The assembler is a program that transforms (somewhat) human-readable text
into machine code.  There a few ways to go about structuring this
workflow.  So far I've been using a cross-assembler that runs on a
different system - for example, the original UNIX was cross-assembled on a
GE-635 mainframe for its PDP-7 target.  There are native assemblers as
well.  These often assumed some sort of secondary store, whether punched
tape, magtape or disk, that might hold intermediate stages of assembly and
certainly the final product.  A common workflow was:

- load native assembler program from 
- start native assembler program
- tell native assembler program where to find the source (which media)
- native assembler reads in source, transforms it to object (machine code),
sends the results to 
- programmer loads object from  and runs it

If you're loading an assembler program from tape, you probably need to give
the monitor a 'go' instruction once it's completed (that's how MIKBUG
works, anyway).  The assembler may prompt for the input source or may just
assume that once you say 'go' a tape is loaded and ready to be read.

How do you create the source?  If you're doing it natively, you need an
editor that runs on the platform and can send the resulting text to
.  Or again, you can write your assembly source on another platform
and create (or emulate) appropriate .

I hope that helps.  Cheers -- Ian

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From

Re: New acquisition. Ploycorp Poly 1. New Zealand school computer

[Ian S. King]

On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 5:15 AM, william degnan  wrote:

> Cool system.
>
> Bill Degnan
> twitter: billdeg
> vintagecomputer.net
> On Oct 8, 2016 5:33 AM, "Terry Stewart"  wrote:
>
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > In case anyone is interested...
> > http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2016-10-9-poly-acquisition.htm
> >
> > This could have been the BBC of New Zealand schools... (-:
> >
> > Terry (Tez)
> >
>

Very cool indeed.  I hope you fix the second system rather than using it as
a parts beast - I think the daisy-chain connection of machines is a
fascinating historical aspect.

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: New acquisition. Ploycorp Poly 1. New Zealand school computer

[Terry Stewart]

>Cool system

Thanks Bill.

>Very cool indeed.  I hope you fix the second system rather than using it as
>a parts beast - I think the daisy-chain connection of machines is a
>fascinating historical aspect.

Yes, I agree Ian.  I've got everything I need for joining them together.
My chief interest in this hobby is the historical aspect and a stand-alone
poly (although they can be used that way) is not how they were used back in
the day.

I think the problem with the second one is just old capacitors.  Just a
matter of identifying and replacing.  A good project for sometime next
year.  This year has been a busy one with many (non-computing) projects.  I
hope to get more time for THIS hobby next year.

Terry (Tez)



On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 1:13 PM, Ian S. King  wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 5:15 AM, william degnan 
> wrote:
>
> > Cool system.
> >
> > Bill Degnan
> > twitter: billdeg
> > vintagecomputer.net
> > On Oct 8, 2016 5:33 AM, "Terry Stewart"  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi guys,
> > >
> > > In case anyone is interested...
> > > http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2016-10-9-poly-
> acquisition.htm
> > >
> > > This could have been the BBC of New Zealand schools... (-:
> > >
> > > Terry (Tez)
> > >
> >
>
> Very cool indeed.  I hope you fix the second system rather than using it as
> a parts beast - I think the daisy-chain connection of machines is a
> fascinating historical aspect.
>
> --
> Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
> The Information School 
> Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
> Narrative Through a Design Lens
>
> Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
> Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 
>
> University of Washington
>
> There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
>

Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[Charles Anthony]

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 5:08 PM, Ian S. King  wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Brad H  bettercomputing.net>
> wrote:
>
>   So far I've been using a cross-assembler that runs on a
> different system - for example, the original UNIX was cross-assembled on a
> GE-635 mainframe for its PDP-7 target.
>

Was the cross assembler running under GCOS? If so, are any copies of it
known to exist?

-- Charles

Re: New acquisition. Ploycorp Poly 1. New Zealand school computer

[COURYHOUSE]

Terry - - Congrats!I never  knew about these  systems!
Thanks for sharing this history with us!
 
Ed#  _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org)  
 
 
In a message dated 10/9/2016 5:13:58 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
isk...@uw.edu writes:

On Oct  8, 2016 5:33 AM, "Terry Stewart"   wrote:
>
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > In case anyone  is interested...
> >  http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2016-10-9-poly-acquisition.htm
>  >
> > This could have been the BBC of New Zealand schools...  (-:
> >
> > Terry (Tez)
>  >
>

Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[Brad H]

 Original message 
From: "Ian S. King"  
Date: 2016-10-09  5:08 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!] 

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Brad H 
wrote:

>
>
>  Original message 
> From: "Ian S. King" 
> Date: 2016-10-09  2:30 PM  (GMT-08:00)
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]
>
> On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 2:37 AM, Dave G4UGM  wrote:
>
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brad
> H
> > > Sent: 09 October 2016 07:41
> > > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > > ; jwsm...@jwsss.com
> > > Subject: Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I'd like to learn more about programming, esp for my 6800.  It'd be fun
> > to test
> > > its limits and see what uses I can find for the graphics board I got. I
> > just don't
> > > understand how they programmed the thing. All the hex stuff throws me
> > > off.  :)
> >
> > Does it have a serial interface and memory. In which case it was probably
> > programmed in Assembler.
> > When I started with 6800 board and 256 bytes of memory, and toggle
> > switches to load it I used to hand assemble the programs to get the
> > hex/binary.
> > I soon got bored of the toggle switches and built a little box with an
> old
> > calculator keyboard and display and some TTL so I could enter data
> quickly.
> >
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > I recently acquired a SWTPC 6800, a machine I remember from when it was
> new.  :-)  There are many programming environments available for it - I'm
> working to get Forth running on mine, then I'll branch out.
>
> It's been said that the 6800 inherited a lot of ideas from the PDP-8, and I
> agree with that to some extent.  The ISA is actually very clean and neat,
> once you wrap your head around it - I used to program 6800 assembler
> professionally, my first paid job as a programmer!  Unlike the PDP-8, I/O
> is memory-mapped.  Depending on what monitor ROM you have (if any), you may
> have different system services available.  One very useful system is the
> one that can read S-records from the serial input, allowing you to easily
> transfer programs onto the machine.
>
> If you want to grok the 6800 in fullness, there are online scans of
> Motorola's programming manual for the device.  Another great resource is
> the swtpc.com site, even if you don't have a SWTPC machine (what do you
> have?).
>
> Have fun with it!  Cheers -- Ian
>
> --
> Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
> The Information School 
> Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
> Narrative Through a Design Lens
>
> Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
> Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 
>
> University of Washington
>
> >There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon >could go to China."
>
> I've an original SWTPC 6800.  Also have an ASCI System X and a Tektronix
> 6800 board bucket.  Right now I'm enjoying working with the SWTPC.  I'm
> trying to deck it out as completely as one could have.
> I don't quite understand assembly.. I assume to program in that, as with
> BASIC you need to load an 'assembler' language first?  I tried this with my
> Digital Group system with 5 different tapes marked 'assembler' but never
> got them to load.  Not sure if I understand the concept.


The assembler is a program that transforms (somewhat) human-readable text
into machine code.  There a few ways to go about structuring this
workflow.  So far I've been using a cross-assembler that runs on a
different system - for example, the original UNIX was cross-assembled on a
GE-635 mainframe for its PDP-7 target.  There are native assemblers as
well.  These often assumed some sort of secondary store, whether punched
tape, magtape or disk, that might hold intermediate stages of assembly and
certainly the final product.  A common workflow was:

- load native assembler program from 
- start native assembler program
- tell native assembler program where to find the source (which media)
- native assembler reads in source, transforms it to object (machine code),
sends the results to 
- programmer loads object from  and runs it

If you're loading an assembler program from tape, you probably need to give
the monitor a 'go' instruction once it's completed (that's how MIKBUG
works, anyway).  The assembler may prompt for the input source or may just
assume that once you say 'go' a tape is loaded and ready to be read.

How do you create the source?  If you're doing it natively, you need an
editor that runs on the platform and can send the resulting text to
.  Or again, you can write your assembly source on another platform
and create (or emulate) appropriate .

I hope that helps.  Cheers -- Ian

-- 
Ian S. King, MSI

Re: Data on a Platter!

[Chris Pye]

> On 8 Oct 2016, at 1:04 AM, Al Kossow  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 10/6/16 11:14 PM, Jason T wrote:
>> It was
>> either Kilobaud of Interface Age that had them.
> 
> Interface Age
> 
> I have a couple that I just ran across again that I need to digitize
> There was just a discussion about these on the MAME developers list.
> 

Pete Shelley's 1983 album XL1 had a data track for the Sinclair ZX Spectrum. It 
contained graphics to go along with all the music, kind of tricky to get it in 
sync.

raytheon 706 computer users manual at SMECC

[COURYHOUSE]

We have in the library:
"raytheon 706  computer users manual"
 at SMECC.
 
Wanted  to see if it  was online somewhere. 
 
Nice shape  tight binding  with an additional errata and  addendum  
pamphlet accompanying it.
 
I see bitsavers has manual but not pmphlet.Also   there is no  color  front 
and back cover, which
if you have the computer is  cool artwork for a display.  -
 
 Anyone  with a 706 out there?
 
Ed#  _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) 
 

RE: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[Eric Smith]

On Oct 9, 2016 12:37 PM, "Fred Cisin"  wrote:
> Douglas Adams was instrumental in a few games.
> But, somebody once asked him what he most liked to play with on his Mac.
He said The Desktop.

My favorite computer game is the C compiler. Granted, the scoring is rather
subjective.

Need a case that has not turned to goo for a workslate

[COURYHOUSE]

Need a  case that  has not turned to goo for a WORKSLATE
 
the  case we have is NASTY!!
 
thanks  Ed#  _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org)