Re: vt100 terminfo with padding for an actual vt100?

[Fritz Mueller]

Hi all, thanks for the help/advice!

Peter, the table you posted comes closest to what I was originally looking for. 
 I think I will end up just doing some testing to identify the troublesome 
control sequence and find out how much padding is needed in each case.  I’ll 
post back the numbers I find (thought it may be a little bit before I get back 
to this particular project).

I do not think the VT100 supports hardware flow control.

Interesting the comments on the USB serial converters — I am using a Keytronics 
(now Tripp-Lite) USA-19H, and I think these are generally well regarded?  But 
thinking on it, I bet USB has something to do with it here — perhaps buffer 
latency through the USB drivers is keeping software flow-control (xon/xoff) 
from functioning effectively at higher baud rates, which is another reason I 
think proper padding values might be a good alternative.

Another idea that might work would be to take an FPGA proto board that I have 
and hack up a better serial port — something with some buffering and xon/xoff 
logic sitting downstream of the USB interface.

cheers,
   —FritzM.

Re: PDP-8 core memory problems.

[Mattis Lind]

>
> I'd tend to be more pessimistic about this working.
>
> There are different requirements in winding a wire for purposes of inhibit
> and sense.
> In the 3-wire arrangement the winding of the combined wire has to meet both
> sets of requirements.
>
> Specifically, for this case, in a 4-wire mem, where the inhibit wire was
> woven just for
> the purposes of inhibit, I don't anticipate it's going to have the noise
> cancellation topology
> needed to function as the sense wire.
>
> Sense wires were woven as a floating loop feeding a differential
> amplifier. The loop is kept
> quite closed or otherwise woven in a very balanced manner so that the
> magnetic fields from the
> large select currents (and other influences) will cancel out or be
> rejected as common-mode influence at the
> differential amp inputs.
>
> The select current magnetic fields trigger the magnetic field reversal of
> the core, you want to sense the latter distinct from the former.
> Unless you have circuitry with the wherewithal to distinguish those
> induced currents in the sense wire in time
> (delay of the core field reversal from the select field), you otherwise
> have to minimise the influence of the select current fields on the sense
> wire.
>
> If you look at the diagrams in my article you can see the sorts of
> differences in weaving topologies between 3 & 4 wire arrangements,
> as well as examples of the tortured topologies resorted to to balance the
> sense loop.
> In the 3-wire example there you can see how the S/I wire was split in half
> with a special resistor network at one end to allow inhibit current flow
> while at the same time configuring it as a balanced loop for the sense
> function.
>
> My article certainly isn't the last word on the variety of
> implementations, I believe there were 4-wire designs with sense wires
> parallel to
> select wires as in the 3-wire designs for example, so you never know until
> you examine the specifics at hand,
> but I think it unlikely you'd have much success getting the inhibit wire
> to function for sense, not without going to as much trouble
> messing with the stack as if you tried to fix the sense wire.
>


Thanks. I think that this information will rule out the idea of using the
inhibit wire instead. It is likely to be not viable.

>
> If the sense wire is open I'd guess there's a good chance it's at one of
> the end points where it's soldered to a terminal or at an existing splice
> from manufacture time and might be repairable if access could be had.
>

Access is of course the problem. I tried to check at the terminals and it
looked like the wire was ok there, but it is in an extremely tight place. I
tried to apply some small amount of solder in the hop that it was just bad
contact at one of the terminals but no difference unfortunately.


>
> Might the stack have a parity bit array that could be redirected to
> replace the faulty bit array?,
> perhaps foregoing the parity checking on that board-set if the parity
> logic is present.
>

I think I have checked the existence of a parity plane. It appears that
there is none present. The writing on the core module show no parity plane
and there are only twelve sense and inhibit terminals.

So what are the other options?

* Trying to repair the unit. Every plane is soldered together with the ones
nearby to convey the X/Y signals. This can probably be undone with a
patience and soldering braid. But what are the chance that the X/Y wires
gets lose then? Are those soldered or welded into place?

Then it would be quite tricky to just identify where it is actually broken.
Any ideas for how to do this? A microscope of course. Any other ideas?
Applying an electrical field between the wire and something else and try to
detect it?

Repair. If the wire is broken in the mat it is probably not to difficult to
pull out the broken parts. But then the new wire has to be spliced in. What
is t he best technique to do that?

How to push in the new wire in the matrix? I now that Anders was able to do
this with a broken X-wire in a PDP-8/L stack.

* Use a PDP-15 MM15 stack and sense/inhibit boards.

I have several off these. Adding a small backplane, put the X/Y drivers,
sense amp/inhibit drivers and level converters there and then adapt to the
existing slots for the memory module. It would be a horrible mixture of TTL
and transistors. But it would still be core memory.

* Use solid state technology. Possibly inside the memory box so it looks
real but emulates the actual core memory module.
Any ideas how this could be done in the best way?

/Mattis

Re: vt100 terminfo with padding for an actual vt100?

[Pete Turnbull]

On 06/09/2016 09:43, Fritz Mueller wrote:

But thinking on it, I bet USB has something to do
with it here — perhaps buffer latency through the USB drivers is
keeping software flow-control (xon/xoff) from functioning effectively
at higher baud rates


I've had that problem with a printer and a double-buffered UART.  As 
near as I could determine, the printer waited to send XOFF until there 
was only one or maybe two characters free in its software buffer, but by 
that time there was one char in transit, one more in the printer's 
receiver buffer register and another in the computer's UART's 
transmitter buffer register.  That's at least one too many :-)


--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

Re: vt100 terminfo with padding for an actual vt100?

[emanuel stiebler]

On 2016-09-06 02:43, Fritz Mueller wrote:

Hi all, thanks for the help/advice!



Another idea that might work would be to take an FPGA proto board that I have
and hack up a better serial port — something with some buffering and xon/xoff
logic sitting downstream of the USB interface.


Why not just leave it at 4800?

You're spending a lot of effort to get transmit at 19200, then have to 
insert padding for all screen control, so are you sure it is worth your 
time?


Don't mind playing with hardware, don't get me wrong, but the result is 
still a 4800 baud terminal ;-)

Mattel Aquarius QD diskette drive

[Liam Proven]

>From Adrian Graham on FB. I never knew it had one!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0MpUMh80zk

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)

Re: The huge lot that had the NIB 8" floppies is now on ebay

[Liam Proven]

On 6 September 2016 at 05:56, j...@cimmeri.com  wrote:
> If there's ever a vote taken up for whether to ban the constant billboarding
> of ebay ads here,
> I'm for "ban."   People who know how to use ebay do not need help finding
> things on ebay.


I wonder if these legendary "people who know how to use eBay" know how
to bottom-quote? Since you apparently know some such gurus, perhaps
you could ask them to teach you?

No, you're wrong. Firstly, as usual for the USA, you assume the entire
world is American. Hint: it's not. People in other countries may not
be readily able to search eBay US. Or they may not have saved
searches, or they may not cover what's posted, or they didn't know
something existed or was available, or a thousand other reasons.

If you don't like them, ignore the threads.

Some of us find them useful or interesting.

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)

Manx [Was: Re: DEC Pro 350/380 Memory Cards - Interchangeability?]

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 05:38:02PM +0100, Rob Jarratt wrote:
> 
> but Manx seems to be in the process of being relocated
> 

Hasn't Manx been in that state for ages?

/P

RE: The huge lot that had the NIB 8" floppies is now on ebay

[Rob Jarratt]

> No, you're wrong. Firstly, as usual for the USA, you assume the entire world
> is American. Hint: it's not. People in other countries may not be readily able
> to search eBay US. Or they may not have saved searches, or they may not
> cover what's posted, or they didn't know something existed or was available,
> or a thousand other reasons.
> 
> If you don't like them, ignore the threads.
> 
> Some of us find them useful or interesting.
> 


I agree. The volume of these eBay emails is not high. It would be another 
matter if there were really a lot of these emails, but as it is I find them 
useful/interesting.

Regards

Rob

RE: Manx [Was: Re: DEC Pro 350/380 Memory Cards - Interchangeability?]

[Rob Jarratt]

> -Original Message-
> From: Pontus Pihlgren [mailto:pon...@update.uu.se]
> Sent: 06 September 2016 11:49
> To: r...@jarratt.me.uk; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Cc: 'Paul Koning' 
> Subject: Manx [Was: Re: DEC Pro 350/380 Memory Cards -
> Interchangeability?]
> 
> On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 05:38:02PM +0100, Rob Jarratt wrote:
> >
> > but Manx seems to be in the process of being relocated
> >
> 
> Hasn't Manx been in that state for ages?
> 
> /P

I hadn't noticed until I tried to access it a week or so ago, because I have
most of the manuals I need locally so I don't check Manx all that often. Is
there any news on when it might be back though?

Regards

Rob

Re: The huge lot that had the NIB 8" floppies is now on ebay

[Pete Turnbull]

On 06/09/2016 11:41, Liam Proven wrote:

On 6 September 2016 at 05:56, j...@cimmeri.com  wrote:

If there's ever a vote taken up for whether to ban the constant billboarding
of ebay ads here,
I'm for "ban."   People who know how to use ebay do not need help finding
things on ebay.


No, you're wrong. Firstly, as usual for the USA, you assume the entire
world is American. Hint: it's not. People in other countries may not
be readily able to search eBay US. Or they may not have saved
searches, or they may not cover what's posted, or they didn't know
something existed or was available, or a thousand other reasons.


Agreed.  I find such occasional posts interesting.

--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

Re: Manx [Was: Re: DEC Pro 350/380 Memory Cards - Interchangeability?]

[Torfinn Ingolfsen]

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Rob Jarratt  wrote:
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Pontus Pihlgren [mailto:pon...@update.uu.se]
>> Sent: 06 September 2016 11:49
>> To: r...@jarratt.me.uk; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>> 
>> Cc: 'Paul Koning' 
>> Subject: Manx [Was: Re: DEC Pro 350/380 Memory Cards -
>> Interchangeability?]
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 05:38:02PM +0100, Rob Jarratt wrote:
>> >
>> > but Manx seems to be in the process of being relocated
>> >
>>
>> Hasn't Manx been in that state for ages?
>>
>> /P
>
> I hadn't noticed until I tried to access it a week or so ago, because I have
> most of the manuals I need locally so I don't check Manx all that often. Is
> there any news on when it might be back though?

I asked about the terminals wiki about a week ago, and got "at least a
couple more weeks" as an answer.

HTH
-- 
Regards,
Torfinn Ingolfsen

RE: Manx

[Jay West]

It was written
---
> but Manx seems to be in the process of being relocated
> 

Hasn't Manx been in that state for ages?

/P
-

manx.classiccmp.org
terminals.classiccmp.org
computergraphicsmuseum.com/net/org

The owner of those three sites has the unfortunate honor of being the only
person ever asked to leave the free hosting at classiccmp.org.
I gave him 30 days to get his stuff hosted elsewhere.
I even backed up all his content and databases and put them on a 1.5TB
external hard drive and shipped it to him (while keeping the sites running
on the classiccmp server). 
Even though I told him 30 days, I gave him about 180 days before I said "you
have to get these moved or I'll have to turn them off".
After about another 90 days or more, I did redirects back to his home site
so they at least weren't dead. 

The content and databases are still on the classiccmp server, although
publicly inaccessible, just to make sure the new locations are up and
running before I delete the content locally. 

I did my best.

J

RE: Manx

[Rob Jarratt]

> -Original Message-
> From: Jay West [mailto:jw...@classiccmp.org]
> Sent: 06 September 2016 14:01
> To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
> ; r...@jarratt.me.uk
> Subject: RE: Manx
> 
> It was written
> ---
> > but Manx seems to be in the process of being relocated
> >
> 
> Hasn't Manx been in that state for ages?
> 
> /P
> -
> 
> manx.classiccmp.org
> terminals.classiccmp.org
> computergraphicsmuseum.com/net/org
> 
> The owner of those three sites has the unfortunate honor of being the only
> person ever asked to leave the free hosting at classiccmp.org.
> I gave him 30 days to get his stuff hosted elsewhere.
> I even backed up all his content and databases and put them on a 1.5TB
> external hard drive and shipped it to him (while keeping the sites running
on
> the classiccmp server).
> Even though I told him 30 days, I gave him about 180 days before I said
"you
> have to get these moved or I'll have to turn them off".
> After about another 90 days or more, I did redirects back to his home site
so
> they at least weren't dead.
> 
> The content and databases are still on the classiccmp server, although
> publicly inaccessible, just to make sure the new locations are up and
running
> before I delete the content locally.
> 


Oh dear!

Can we have the backup of the contents somewhere downloadable? If not the
code, which may belong to the owner, then at least the actual manuals? What
other options might there be to ensure that the content is not lost?

Regards

Rob

RE: Manx

[Jay West]

Rob wrote...
---
Can we have the backup of the contents somewhere downloadable? If not the
code, which may belong to the owner, then at least the actual manuals? What
other options might there be to ensure that the content is not lost?
---

No, I can't make the contents downloadable. They belong to the site owner
not me.

But do not fear that it might go away forever. The site owner plans to get
the sites back up (hosted elsewhere) and that will be the end of it.

In general terms, as it relates to other classiccmp-hosted websites - If a
site owner deceases or similar, then I'd have to get permission from heirs
or determine if the content was truly abandoned and if so - then I could
keep the site running and available in perpetuity. But the three sites
mentioned clearly have an active owner - and that's not me.

My intent by posting that was not to create/expose drama. My intent was to
let folks know that I went to fairly extreme and generous levels to make
sure the site stayed up; it's not in my nature to turn off a
classiccmp-related website. This was a unique situation.

J

Re: PDP-8 core memory problems.

[Vincent Slyngstad]

From: "Mattis Lind: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 2:11 AM

* Use a PDP-15 MM15 stack and sense/inhibit boards.

I have several off these. Adding a small backplane, put the X/Y drivers,
sense amp/inhibit drivers and level converters there and then adapt to the
existing slots for the memory module. It would be a horrible mixture of TTL
and transistors. But it would still be core memory.


There's a guy on eBay who periodically offers stacks for 8/I or 8/L:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/172295154098

Those might (or might not) be more straight-forward to interface (though 
DEC's proof of concept is a TTL interface).



* Use solid state technology. Possibly inside the memory box so it looks
real but emulates the actual core memory module.
Any ideas how this could be done in the best way?


I did some (theoretical) work on a core replacement for the 8/S 
a few years ago based on some ideas from John Price.  That's 
embedded in the "memory" drawing in 
http://svn.so-much-stuff.com/svn/trunk/Eagle/projects/DEC/PDP8S/.

(See sheet 2; most of the schematic is just the schematic of an 8/S.)

Somewhere I also explored a notion of pulling the inhibit driver 
and sense amp stuff, replacing the stack itself with a memory board, 
then replacing the inhibit drivers and sense amps with interface 
boards that knew how to talk to the new memory board.  If I recall, 
that was in the 8/I or 8/L context, though.


I never built any of it, it was just a thought exercise.  There  seemed 
to be plenty of board real estate to work with, though.


   Vince 

Re: The huge lot that had the NIB 8" floppies is now on ebay

[Jason Howe]

On 09/06/2016 04:31 AM, Rob Jarratt wrote:



Some of us find them useful or interesting.



I agree. The volume of these eBay emails is not high. It would be another 
matter if there were really a lot of these emails, but as it is I find them 
useful/interesting.

Regards

Rob

Same here.  I don't troll ebay regularly and only have a couple very 
specific saved searches.  Some pretty interested stuff comes up on ebay 
occasionally which I might not have seen otherswise.


That said, when folks just dump an ebay item number rather than a full 
link, those posts should die in a fire ;)



--Jason

Re: The huge lot that had the NIB 8" floppies is now on ebay

[j...@cimmeri.com]

On 9/5/2016 11:49 PM, Mark Linimon wrote:

On Mon, Sep 05, 2016 at 10:56:24PM -0500, j...@cimmeri.com wrote:

If there's ever a vote taken up for whether to ban the constant billboarding
of ebay ads here, I'm for "ban."

I would subscribe to a spin-off list that was merely for buy/sell/trade.

mcl


That would be my preference as well.  A "cce...@classiccmp.org" list.

Or at least in an indication in the subject line "ebay: [topic]" so they 
can get filtered out.


- J.

Re: vt100 terminfo with padding for an actual vt100?

[Paul Koning]

> On Sep 4, 2016, at 8:10 PM, Fritz Mueller  wrote:
> 
> Hi all —
> 
> I’m trying to run a real-deal vt100 on a serial port connected to Linux 
> (Xubunto 16.04).  I’ve got this working *pretty* well, but it looks like the 
> padding values in the default vt100 terminfo entry are not quite correct — 
> when running the vt100 at 9600 I still get occasional garbage characters on 
> the screen, and 19200 is a hopeless mess.

19200?  I didn't think the VT100 supported that.

You've got to be careful with that setting, even on devices that claim to do 
it.  When it first appeared, it was often a "just barely possible" setting on 
the clock generator, with an actual bit rate off a couple of percent from the 
correct value.  If both ends used the same clock generators, no problem of 
course.  But if one end uses an accurate one, you may get framing errors.

> I did figure out that if the terminfo contains “xon”, the non-mandatory 
> padding values in the terminfo are disregarded.  Removing this, then 
> disabling xon/xoff on both the vt100 and the tty device actually produces 
> *better* results — apparently the turnaround on xon/xoff isn’t quite fast 
> enough to keep the terminal from being swamped at higher baud rates, and 
> padding actually works better.  But tracking down the source for the default 
> vt100 entry turned up a comment that admits that the padding values there are 
> a total guess. :-( 

I have never heard of "padding" for any DEC video terminals other than the 
VT05.  And I have never seen messed up characters at 9600 baud.  

Flow control is by XON/XOFF, and the implementation has to react promptly to 
XOFF.  If you're seeing lost characters, it may be that XOFF processing in your 
host is too slow, either because its terminal driver is poor, or because the 
converter used introduces too much delay.

On the other hand, flow control issues do not result in "garbage" characters.  
The only way you'd get what looks like garbage is if escape sequences are 
corrupted so a portion of that sequence is mistaken for text.  If you see 
garbage in a full screen editor, that could be the reason.  On the other hand, 
if you're just sending a large document to the screen and you're seeing 
garbage, flow control is not the cause.

Earlier on there was some discussion about modern interface devices with 
non-compliant "RS232" transceivers.  If your RS232 output is marginal, that 
could cause garbage.  If the clocks are off, ditto.  An oscilloscope could be 
used to test both those theories.

paul

Re: The huge lot that had the NIB 8" floppies is now on ebay

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Jason Howe

> Some pretty interested stuff comes up on ebay occasionally which I
> might not have seen otherswise.

Exactamundo.

> when folks just dump an ebay item number rather than a full link, those
> posts should die

Why? It's a tiny bit more work to use them (prepend the number with the
string "http://www.ebay.com/itm/";, and away you go), so one can't just click
and go, but are people really that unwilling to go to the slightest effort?

Noel

Re: Manx

[Cameron Kaiser]

> The owner of those three sites has the unfortunate honor of being the only
> person ever asked to leave the free hosting at classiccmp.org.

I realize this is likely confidential, but it's aching to be asked: what on
earth did he do??

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Save a horse, starve a fever. Wait, what? -- Alex Payne 

RK05 packs

[Noel Chiappa]

So I have a fairly large group of 16-sector RK05 packs (i.e. PDP-8, -12) which
I have no use for, which I would like to trade for 12-sector RK05 packs (i.e.
PDP-11). Anyone have any of the latter, and need the former?

Alternatively, if anyone has any head-crashed 12-sector RK05 packs, I would be
interested in buying them (or trading something else) for them. (I am reliably
informed that one can replace the platter on an RK05 pack without too much
work, so I'd transplant the 12-sector hubs into the packs I already have).

(Replies to me, please, not the whole list - unless there's some point you
wish to make which would be of general interest.)

Noel

Re: RK05 packs

[Jay Jaeger]

I'd be willing to trade two or three, to have some of the 8 sort.

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 6, 2016, at 10:48, Noel Chiappa  wrote:
> 
> So I have a fairly large group of 16-sector RK05 packs (i.e. PDP-8, -12) which
> I have no use for, which I would like to trade for 12-sector RK05 packs (i.e.
> PDP-11). Anyone have any of the latter, and need the former?
> 
> Alternatively, if anyone has any head-crashed 12-sector RK05 packs, I would be
> interested in buying them (or trading something else) for them. (I am reliably
> informed that one can replace the platter on an RK05 pack without too much
> work, so I'd transplant the 12-sector hubs into the packs I already have).
> 
> (Replies to me, please, not the whole list - unless there's some point you
> wish to make which would be of general interest.)
> 
>Noel

Re: The huge lot that had the NIB 8" floppies is now on ebay

[Peter Coghlan]

Noel Chiappa wrote:
>
>> when folks just dump an ebay item number rather than a full link, those
>> posts should die
>
> Why? It's a tiny bit more work to use them (prepend the number with the
> string "http://www.ebay.com/itm/";, and away you go), so one can't just click
> and go, but are people really that unwilling to go to the slightest effort?
>

Any given posting to a mailing list is sent by one person and read by many.
If there is a small effort to be made, it makes more sense for the sender to
make it once than all the interested recipients to have to duplicate the effort.

On the other hand, faulty spam filters may be more likely to stomp on messages
containing urls so there may be also be a case for not including urls in 
postings
if possible.

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.

Re: RK05 packs

[aswood]

I'd like to trade two media.

> Am 06.09.2016 um 17:48 schrieb Noel Chiappa :
> 
> So I have a fairly large group of 16-sector RK05 packs (i.e. PDP-8, -12) which
> I have no use for, which I would like to trade for 12-sector RK05 packs (i.e.
> PDP-11). Anyone have any of the latter, and need the former?
> 
> Alternatively, if anyone has any head-crashed 12-sector RK05 packs, I would be
> interested in buying them (or trading something else) for them. (I am reliably
> informed that one can replace the platter on an RK05 pack without too much
> work, so I'd transplant the 12-sector hubs into the packs I already have).
> 
> (Replies to me, please, not the whole list - unless there's some point you
> wish to make which would be of general interest.)
> 
>Noel

Re: The huge lot that had the NIB 8" floppies is now on ebay

[j...@cimmeri.com]

On 9/6/2016 9:51 AM, Jason Howe wrote:
On 09/06/2016 04:31 AM, Rob Jarratt 
wrote:


Some of us find them useful or 
interesting.




I agree. The volume of these eBay 
emails is not high. It would be 
another matter if there were really a 
lot of these emails, but as it is I 
find them useful/interesting.
Same here.  I don't troll ebay 
regularly and only have a couple very 
specific saved searches.  Some pretty 
interested stuff comes up on ebay 
occasionally which I might not have 
seen otherswise.



Just curious -- this stuff that's come 
up, that you might not have seen 
otherwise, how often was it anything 
really needed?   How often have you 
bought any of it?


I too admit to having found some of 
these ebay postings to be interesting.  
But in the end, they were just 
distractions from what was more 
important to me: the scores of 
electronics projects I've already got 
... purchased almost entirely from... 
you got it -- eBay. All of which 
were found without the assistance of 
extra postings outside of ebay.


I suppose I'm making a larger point, 
that if you didn't try to find it 
yourself, maybe you didn't really need 
it to begin with.  Maybe it's better for 
your wallet that you never saw it to 
begin with.  Countless interesting 
things happen every day that we simply 
can't become aware of.  It's not 
necessary see or purchase every single 
interesting thing, nor possible to 
become aware of every single interesting 
thing or event in a day.


Over-distraction and over-consumption is 
definitely a growing bane of the current 
world.


So that's all I'm saying: re-advertising 
here what is already advertised and 
readily found on ebay itself (if you are 
realistic and understand that you might 
not be able to find every single 
instance of something that interests you 
nor is it necessary that you do so) is 
distracting.


On the other hand, if someone had some 
magical powers of discovery on ebay, and 
posted things that nobody else could 
possibly find, that'd be cool.


- J.

Re: Manx

[aswood]

http://rtk.mirrors.pdp-11.ru/

Am 06.09.2016 um 17:43 schrieb Cameron Kaiser :

>> The owner of those three sites has the unfortunate honor of being the only
>> person ever asked to leave the free hosting at classiccmp.org.
> 
> I realize this is likely confidential, but it's aching to be asked: what on
> earth did he do??
> 
> -- 
>  personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ 
> --
>  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
> -- Save a horse, starve a fever. Wait, what? -- Alex Payne 
> 

Re: Manx

[COURYHOUSE]

the terminals  site is  still on archive.org

https://web.archive.org/web/20150720142308/http://terminals.classiccmp.org/w
iki/index.php/Category:Alpha_Micro
 
ta da..
 
 
Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 9/6/2016 6:01:32 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
jw...@classiccmp.org writes:

It was  written
---
> but Manx seems to be in  the process of being relocated
> 

Hasn't Manx been in that state  for  ages?

/P
-

manx.classiccmp.org
terminals.classiccmp.org
computergraphicsmuseum.com/net/org

The  owner of those three sites has the unfortunate honor of being the  only
person ever asked to leave the free hosting at classiccmp.org.
I  gave him 30 days to get his stuff hosted elsewhere.
I even backed up all  his content and databases and put them on a 1.5TB
external hard drive and  shipped it to him (while keeping the sites running
on the classiccmp  server). 
Even though I told him 30 days, I gave him about 180 days before  I said 
"you
have to get these moved or I'll have to turn them  off".
After about another 90 days or more, I did redirects back to his home  site
so they at least weren't dead. 

The content and databases are  still on the classiccmp server, although
publicly inaccessible, just to  make sure the new locations are up and
running before I delete the content  locally. 

I did my  best.

J

Re: The huge lot that had the NIB 8" floppies is now on ebay

[Cameron Kaiser]

> Just curious -- this stuff that's come 
> up, that you might not have seen 
> otherwise, how often was it anything 
> really needed?

That's why it's a hobby. :)

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Never blame on malice what can be blamed on abject idiocy. -

Re: Manx

[COURYHOUSE]

the terminals  site is  still on archive.org

https://web.archive.org/web/20150720142308/http://terminals.classiccmp.org/w
iki/index.php/Category:Alpha_Micro
 
ta da..
 
 
Ed#
 
 
 
resending   got  error




In a message dated 9/6/2016 9:07:15 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
couryho...@aol.com writes:

the terminals  site is  still on archive.org

https://web.archive.org/web/20150720142308/http://terminals.classiccmp.org/w
iki/index.php/Category:Alpha_Micro
 
ta da..
 
 
Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 9/6/2016 6:01:32 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
jw...@classiccmp.org writes:

It was  written
---
> but Manx seems to be  in the process of being relocated
> 

Hasn't Manx been in that  state for  ages?

/P
-

manx.classiccmp.org
terminals.classiccmp.org
computergraphicsmuseum.com/net/org

The  owner of those three sites has the unfortunate honor of being the  only
person ever asked to leave the free hosting at classiccmp.org.
I  gave him 30 days to get his stuff hosted elsewhere.
I even backed up all  his content and databases and put them on a 1.5TB
external hard drive and  shipped it to him (while keeping the sites running
on the classiccmp  server). 
Even though I told him 30 days, I gave him about 180 days  before I said 
"you
have to get these moved or I'll have to turn them  off".
After about another 90 days or more, I did redirects back to his  home site
so they at least weren't dead. 

The content and  databases are still on the classiccmp server, although
publicly  inaccessible, just to make sure the new locations are up and
running  before I delete the content locally. 

I did my  best.

J

Re: The huge lot that had the NIB 8" floppies is now on ebay

[Paul Koning]

> On Sep 6, 2016, at 12:04 PM, j...@cimmeri.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 9/6/2016 9:51 AM, Jason Howe wrote:
>> On 09/06/2016 04:31 AM, Rob Jarratt wrote:
>>> 
 Some of us find them useful or interesting.
 
>>> 
>>> I agree. The volume of these eBay emails is not high. It would be another 
>>> matter if there were really a lot of these emails, but as it is I find them 
>>> useful/interesting.
>> Same here.  I don't troll ebay regularly and only have a couple very 
>> specific saved searches.  Some pretty interested stuff comes up on ebay 
>> occasionally which I might not have seen otherswise.
> 
> Just curious -- this stuff that's come up, that you might not have seen 
> otherwise, how often was it anything really needed?   How often have you 
> bought any of it?

That's not quite the correct question.  The correct question is "how often did 
you appreciate the opportunity to see the item and were not aware of it until 
the post showed up?"  My answer is: at least a dozen times.

paul

Re: The huge lot that had the NIB 8" floppies is now on ebay

[jim stephens]

On 9/6/2016 8:06 AM, j...@cimmeri.com wrote:


That would be my preference as well.  A "cce...@classiccmp.org" list.

Or at least in an indication in the subject line "ebay: [topic]" so 
they can get filtered out.


- J.



I will attempt to do that.

Also you can trim off everything in any link that you post.  The only 
thing you need to post
in any link is the ebay domain url, itm and the number.  If you have not 
done so, the following
auction link shows what came from my browser for the huge pile in KC 
link.  I trimmed off
the  after the ? after the auction number.  I usually copy the 
description to the line

above and clip it out of the url.  Apparently ebay ignores it.

The number is sufficient though as said, but i like to post a small url 
rather than that in
case someone reads on a browser type setup where copying the number 
takes a number

of steps.




this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm//191960867958

becomes:
HUGE-LOT-OF-VINTAGE-COMPUTERS-MONITORS-AND-PARTS/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191960867958

thanks will try to filter the noise for those who  prefer not to see sales.
I acquire a lot from ebay and this list and appreciate all the extra 
eyes on the
sales that are shared here, but also appreciate those who want to just 
discuss

the collections, etc.
thanks
jim

Re: The huge lot that had the NIB 8" floppies is now on ebay

[jim stephens]

On 9/6/2016 9:04 AM, j...@cimmeri.com wrote:
So that's all I'm saying: re-advertising here what is already 
advertised and readily found on ebay itself
Frequently it is not easily found on ebay.  Mislisted descriptions and 
titles are common.


i have a lot of watch list items now, but I find I have to troll 
prolific sellers to get all the goodies, and also

find that this list opens up a lot of new ways and sellers as well.

thanks
Jim

Re: The huge lot that had the NIB 8" floppies is now on ebay

[Fred Cisin]

On Tue, 6 Sep 2016, j...@cimmeri.com wrote:
Just curious -- this stuff that's come up, that you might not have seen 
otherwise, how often was it anything really needed?

rarely

How often have you bought any of it?

rarely

Interesting, and worth looking at?
OFTEN!


I suppose I'm making a larger point, that if you didn't try to find it 
yourself, maybe you didn't really need it to begin with.  Maybe it's 
better for your wallet that you never saw it to begin with.


Maybe better for wallet to not be HERE at all!

Over-distraction and over-consumption is definitely a growing bane of 
the current world.


and yet, we are here discussing stuff that we do NOT need.


On the other hand, if someone had some magical powers of discovery on 
ebay, and posted things that nobody else could possibly find, that'd be 
cool.
Often there are mentions of interesting stuff that I would not have 
thought to seek out, otherwise.



A tag for ease of filtering might help.


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

RE: The huge lot that had the NIB 8" floppies is now on ebay

[Electronics Plus]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of jim
stephens
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 11:23 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: The huge lot that had the NIB 8" floppies is now on ebay

Yes, we do.  I had not found this ad and it is in Kansas City, where I have
a warehouse.

Cindy, I didn't see the 8" floppies though.  I also thought this was in
Colorado, but see it listed as KC now, though that may only be another
auction.  This unfortunately isn't up my alley for collecting.
thanks
jim

The spreadsheet is available at the bottom of the listing. The floppies
should be there. Please note there should also be several tabs to the
spreadsheet.

Cindy

Re: The huge lot that had the NIB 8" floppies is now on ebay

[william degnan]

>
> 
>
> Cindy, I didn't see the 8" floppies though.  I also thought this was in
> Colorado, but see it listed as KC now, though that may only be another
> auction.  This unfortunately isn't up my alley for collecting.
> thanks
> jim
>
> 


I mentioned this on a different thread, but I am surprised someone with
this number of Apple/Macs and who has these items near Kansas Fest might
not want to sell them there.   Being that it was in July, I guess they
can't wait a year.  Seems odd.

http://www.kansasfest.org/about/

b

Re: The huge lot that had the NIB 8" floppies is now on ebay

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: js

> That would be my preference as well.  A "ccebay at classiccmp.org" list.

I think we all know that wouldn't work, for a number of reasons.

> Or at least in an indication in the subject line "ebay: [topic]" so
> they can get filtered out.

This, however, I can definitely see as a good move. I will add such a tag to
any eBay notification posts I make, and I encourage everyone else who posts
such to do the same.


> From: Peter Coghlan

>> It's a tiny bit more work to use them 

> Any given posting to a mailing list is sent by one person and read by
> many. If there is a small effort to be made, it makes more sense for
> the sender to make it once than all the interested recipients to have
> to duplicate the effort.

Excellent point.

And the "eBay:" tag idea follow this principle too, I will note... So let's
remember to add that tag, everyone!

Noel

Re: RK05 packs

[Noel Chiappa]

> So I have a fairly large group of 16-sector RK05 packs ... which I have
> no use for, which I would like to trade for 12-sector RK05 packs

Hi, all, I've had quite a few responses, so I think I have this covered now.
Thanks to everyone who responded; if you haven't gotten a reply yet, I'm trying
to catch up, you should hear soon! :-)

   Noel

SWTPC 6800 weirdness

[Brad H]

My 6800 has been mostly working, but it seems to be occasionally flaking
out.  I don't know why.  Sometimes you go to power it up, and there's no
response on terminal side.  The 'fix' is sometimes to wiggle the memory/CPU
boards and then for some reason it's fine(ish).  There are five cards
installed right now - the MP-A, MP-S, a heavily modified MP-M board (with
rams piggybacked on all the original RAM chips) and then two Digital
Research 16k boards.  The system was modified for Flex 2.0

 

Today it flaked again and would not come back up, so I pulled the MP-M board
and the MP-A board and swapped slots.  It came up, but memory at $0100 was
missing.I tried powering up, swapping slots, etc.. same deal.  Then I
left the machine for an hour, powered up again.. boom.. now $0100 is back.
I don't fully understand the addressing system but if that MP-M is
configured as $A000 would that cover $0100 as well?

 

I've tried changing the jumpers on each of the DR 16k board to cover $A000..
but the machine will not boot.  I will only work with either the MP-M alone
or those 16k cards with it configured to other spaces.  In other words, the
machine does not accept any other card configured for $A000.

 

I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions on how I might nail this down.
I'm thinking some of the RAMs on that MP-M are flaky, but it would be a
*nightmare* to try and diagnose it, with all the RAMs piggybacked, all the
little jumper wires, and everything soldered.  I'd prefer to bypass it and
either use my other, less modified MP-M or just the DR boards, which are
socketed.  If any of you have suggestions on how I might take this MP-M out
of the equation that would be awesome!


Brad

Re: SWTPC 6800 weirdness

[Fred Cisin]

On Tue, 6 Sep 2016, Brad H wrote:

My 6800 has been mostly working, but it seems to be occasionally flaking
out.  I don't know why.  Sometimes you go to power it up, and there's no
response on terminal side.  The 'fix' is sometimes to wiggle the memory/CPU
boards and then for some reason it's fine(ish).  There are five cards


fix by wiggling implies a bad connection.
possibly due to oxidation or corrosion of connector?
Depending on how vigorous the wiggling is, it could even be bad connection 
between a chip and socket, or even tiny damage to a trace on the board.



Today it flaked again and would not come back up, so I pulled the MP-M board
and the MP-A board and swapped slots.  It came up, but memory at $0100 was
missing.I tried powering up, swapping slots, etc.. same deal.  Then I
left the machine for an hour, powered up again.. boom.. now $0100 is back.


Working later could be a thermal problem, or just random chance.

Re: SWTPC 6800 weirdness

[william degnan]

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Brad H 
wrote:

> My 6800 has been mostly working, but it seems to be occasionally flaking
> out.  I don't know why.  Sometimes you go to power it up, and there's no
> response on terminal side.  The 'fix' is sometimes to wiggle the memory/CPU
> boards and then for some reason it's fine(ish).  There are five cards
> installed right now - the MP-A, MP-S, a heavily modified MP-M board (with
> rams piggybacked on all the original RAM chips) and then two Digital
> Research 16k boards.  The system was modified for Flex 2.0
>
>
>
> Today it flaked again and would not come back up, so I pulled the MP-M
> board
> and the MP-A board and swapped slots.  It came up, but memory at $0100 was
> missing.I tried powering up, swapping slots, etc.. same deal.  Then I
> left the machine for an hour, powered up again.. boom.. now $0100 is back.
> I don't fully understand the addressing system but if that MP-M is
> configured as $A000 would that cover $0100 as well?
>
>
>
> I've tried changing the jumpers on each of the DR 16k board to cover
> $A000..
> but the machine will not boot.  I will only work with either the MP-M alone
> or those 16k cards with it configured to other spaces.  In other words, the
> machine does not accept any other card configured for $A000.
>
>
>
> I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions on how I might nail this down.
> I'm thinking some of the RAMs on that MP-M are flaky, but it would be a
> *nightmare* to try and diagnose it, with all the RAMs piggybacked, all the
> little jumper wires, and everything soldered.  I'd prefer to bypass it and
> either use my other, less modified MP-M or just the DR boards, which are
> socketed.  If any of you have suggestions on how I might take this MP-M out
> of the equation that would be awesome!
>
>
> Brad
>
>
Brad,
You'll need to make electrical measurements, from the system checkout in
the manual.   You very possibly will have marginal components that need to
be replaced, but it's best to try to locate which is bad rather that to
replace at random.

A000 is not the same place as 0100.In the 64K space, they're quite
distant.

Eliminate all but the one RAM board, setting it to .  Test that
thoroughly, then add the next at the next RAM space beyond the first card.
Continue until you have enough RAM for a minimal Flex boot.  It should tell
you in the version of Flex you're using how much that is (24K?)  It's hard
to do everything at the same time, break it down into chunks..
Bill

Re: RK05 packs

[Ethan Dicks]

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 2:07 PM, Noel Chiappa  wrote:
> > So I have a fairly large group of 16-sector RK05 packs ... which I have
> > no use for, which I would like to trade for 12-sector RK05 packs
>
> Hi, all, I've had quite a few responses, so I think I have this covered now.
> Thanks to everyone who responded; if you haven't gotten a reply yet, I'm 
> trying
> to catch up, you should hear soon! :-)

If you do get some dropouts, I have a large collection of 12-sector
packs and only 1 or 2 16-sector packs.

-ethan

Re: Manx

[COURYHOUSE]

were you able to pull up link at archive.org ok I listed 
 
re:
 
   

the terminals  site is  still on archive.org

https://web.archive.org/web/20150720142308/http://terminals.classiccmp.org/w
iki/index.php/Category:Alpha_Micro
 
ta da..
 
 
Ed#

 
 
In a message dated 9/6/2016 12:50:36 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
pon...@update.uu.se writes:

On Tue,  Sep 06, 2016 at 08:01:17AM -0500, Jay West wrote:
> 
> I did my  best.
> 

I had no idea, thanks for all the extra work you put  in for us.

And a thanks to the maintainer of Manx for working with on  it! It's a 
great  
resource.

/P

Re: Manx

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Tue, Sep 06, 2016 at 08:01:17AM -0500, Jay West wrote:
> 
> I did my best.
> 

I had no idea, thanks for all the extra work you put in for us.

And a thanks to the maintainer of Manx for working with on it! It's a great 
resource.

/P

RE: SWTPC 6800 weirdness

[Brad H]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred Cisin
Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2016 11:36 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: SWTPC 6800 weirdness

On Tue, 6 Sep 2016, Brad H wrote:
> My 6800 has been mostly working, but it seems to be occasionally 
> flaking out.  I don't know why.  Sometimes you go to power it up, and 
> there's no response on terminal side.  The 'fix' is sometimes to 
> wiggle the memory/CPU boards and then for some reason it's fine(ish).  
> There are five cards

fix by wiggling implies a bad connection.
possibly due to oxidation or corrosion of connector?
Depending on how vigorous the wiggling is, it could even be bad connection
between a chip and socket, or even tiny damage to a trace on the board.

> Today it flaked again and would not come back up, so I pulled the MP-M 
> board and the MP-A board and swapped slots.  It came up, but memory at
$0100 was
> missing.I tried powering up, swapping slots, etc.. same deal.  Then I
> left the machine for an hour, powered up again.. boom.. now $0100 is back.

>Working later could be a thermal problem, or just random chance.

There is definitely some oxidation around the board and on some pins, which
I thought I cleaned well enough on the particular slots I'm using.  I'll
check again.  It seems odd that mechanical fooling around makes it work.
Could be totally coincidental though.  I've been a bit hesitant about taking
the board out as I worry about fragility.. but I think we're past that now.

RE: SWTPC 6800 weirdness

[Brad H]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of william degnan
Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2016 11:37 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: SWTPC 6800 weirdness

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Brad H 
wrote:

> My 6800 has been mostly working, but it seems to be occasionally 
> flaking out.  I don't know why.  Sometimes you go to power it up, and 
> there's no response on terminal side.  The 'fix' is sometimes to 
> wiggle the memory/CPU boards and then for some reason it's fine(ish).  
> There are five cards installed right now - the MP-A, MP-S, a heavily 
> modified MP-M board (with rams piggybacked on all the original RAM 
> chips) and then two Digital Research 16k boards.  The system was 
> modified for Flex 2.0
>
>
>
> Today it flaked again and would not come back up, so I pulled the MP-M 
> board and the MP-A board and swapped slots.  It came up, but memory at 
> $0100 was
> missing.I tried powering up, swapping slots, etc.. same deal.  Then I
> left the machine for an hour, powered up again.. boom.. now $0100 is back.
> I don't fully understand the addressing system but if that MP-M is 
> configured as $A000 would that cover $0100 as well?
>
>
>
> I've tried changing the jumpers on each of the DR 16k board to cover 
> $A000..
> but the machine will not boot.  I will only work with either the MP-M 
> alone or those 16k cards with it configured to other spaces.  In other 
> words, the machine does not accept any other card configured for $A000.
>
>
>
> I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions on how I might nail this down.
> I'm thinking some of the RAMs on that MP-M are flaky, but it would be 
> a
> *nightmare* to try and diagnose it, with all the RAMs piggybacked, all 
> the little jumper wires, and everything soldered.  I'd prefer to 
> bypass it and either use my other, less modified MP-M or just the DR 
> boards, which are socketed.  If any of you have suggestions on how I 
> might take this MP-M out of the equation that would be awesome!
>
>
> Brad
>
>
>Brad,
>You'll need to make electrical measurements, from the system checkout in
>the manual.   You very possibly will have marginal components that need to
>be replaced, but it's best to try to locate which is bad rather that to 
>replace at random.

>A000 is not the same place as 0100.In the 64K space, they're quite
>distant.

>Eliminate all but the one RAM board, setting it to .  Test that 
>thoroughly, then add the next at the next RAM space beyond the first card.
>Continue until you have enough RAM for a minimal Flex boot.  It should tell 
>you in the version of Flex you're using how much that is (24K?)  It's hard to 
>do everything at ?>the same time, break it down into chunks..
>Bill

Thanks Bill.  I've tried working with just single RAM boards, but like I said, 
the only one that will work at all is this modified board.  I have pics of it 
here:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4pq0-BHd2x6WVFiZHdyMHBlNW8&usp=sharing

If I could understand better what it is set up to do, what address spaces its 
occupying, I might be able to understand why my 16K DRC boards don't work when 
I try to put them to $A000.  I'd prefer to work with one of those boards first 
since the chips are socketed, and then I could test the chips individually and 
be sure one whole board is good.

I note in one of my pics there, the cap on that modified MP-M looks a little 
tarnished on the outside...

Discovery 500

[Al Kossow]

something of interest if you're in the Phoenix area
www.ebay.com/itm/291860761669

Re: SWTPC 6800 weirdness

[william degnan]

>
>
> >
> >
> >Brad,
> >You'll need to make electrical measurements, from the system checkout in
> >the manual.   You very possibly will have marginal components that need to
> >be replaced, but it's best to try to locate which is bad rather that to
> replace at random.
>
> >A000 is not the same place as 0100.In the 64K space, they're quite
> >distant.
>
> >Eliminate all but the one RAM board, setting it to .  Test that
> thoroughly, then add the next at the next RAM space beyond the first card.
> >Continue until you have enough RAM for a minimal Flex boot.  It should
> tell you in the version of Flex you're using how much that is (24K?)  It's
> hard to do everything at ?>the same time, break it down into chunks..
> >Bill
>
> Thanks Bill.  I've tried working with just single RAM boards, but like I
> said, the only one that will work at all is this modified board.  I have
> pics of it here:
>
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4pq0-BHd2x6WVFiZHdyMHBlNW8&usp=
> sharing
>
> If I could understand better what it is set up to do, what address spaces
> its occupying, I might be able to understand why my 16K DRC boards don't
> work when I try to put them to $A000.  I'd prefer to work with one of those
> boards first since the chips are socketed, and then I could test the chips
> individually and be sure one whole board is good.
>
> I note in one of my pics there, the cap on that modified MP-M looks a
> little tarnished on the outside...
>
>
>
>
Getting a memory map of your system is an important step.  You need to know
what memory addresses each board is attempting to use, so that there is no
overlap.  Also remember that the ROM board has RAM on it too.   You would
not want to map both boards to the same A000 space, but why do you need
this at all?  What wants free RAM there?

One important rule is that you don't want to overlap RAM.

Can you get to a monitor prompt without any RAM installed other than that
which is in the ROM board?

b

Re: vt100 terminfo with padding for an actual vt100?

[Ethan Dicks]

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Paul Koning  wrote:
>
>> On Sep 4, 2016, at 8:10 PM, Fritz Mueller  wrote:
>>
>> Hi all —
>>
>> I’m trying to run a real-deal vt100 on a serial port connected to Linux... 
>> and 19200 is a hopeless mess.
>
> 19200?  I didn't think the VT100 supported that.

We never had luck with it on VAXen and hundreds of feet of wire in the
1980s, but we _did_ have 100% rock-solid performance at 9600.  Of
course, we also had few genuine VT100s as opposed to VT101, VT102,
VT220, and CiTOH 101 terminals.

I do recall that the real, original VT100 was _not_ as capable as any
of its predecessors, supporting the recent comments in this thread
about "not the same as a VT102".  I would agree.

> I have never heard of "padding" for any DEC video terminals other than the 
> VT05.  And I have never seen messed up characters at 9600 baud.

I never had to fiddle any sort of padding characters (on
non-printing/CRT devices).  Our oldest terminals _were_ the original
VT100, and probably represented at most 5% of our installed terminals.

-ethan

RE: SWTPC 6800 weirdness

[Brad H]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of william degnan
Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2016 2:52 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: SWTPC 6800 weirdness

>
>
> >
> >
> >Brad,
> >You'll need to make electrical measurements, from the system checkout in
> >the manual.   You very possibly will have marginal components that need to
> >be replaced, but it's best to try to locate which is bad rather that 
> >to
> replace at random.
>
> >A000 is not the same place as 0100.In the 64K space, they're quite
> >distant.
>
> >Eliminate all but the one RAM board, setting it to .  Test that
> thoroughly, then add the next at the next RAM space beyond the first card.
> >Continue until you have enough RAM for a minimal Flex boot.  It 
> >should
> tell you in the version of Flex you're using how much that is (24K?)  
> It's hard to do everything at ?>the same time, break it down into chunks..
> >Bill
>
> Thanks Bill.  I've tried working with just single RAM boards, but like 
> I said, the only one that will work at all is this modified board.  I 
> have pics of it here:
>
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4pq0-BHd2x6WVFiZHdyMHBlNW8&us
> p=
> sharing
>
> If I could understand better what it is set up to do, what address 
> spaces its occupying, I might be able to understand why my 16K DRC 
> boards don't work when I try to put them to $A000.  I'd prefer to work 
> with one of those boards first since the chips are socketed, and then 
> I could test the chips individually and be sure one whole board is good.
>
> I note in one of my pics there, the cap on that modified MP-M looks a 
> little tarnished on the outside...
>
>
>
>
>Getting a memory map of your system is an important step.  You need to know 
>what memory addresses each board is attempting to use, so that there is no
>overlap.  Also remember that the ROM board has RAM on it too.   You would
>not want to map both boards to the same A000 space, but why do you need this 
>at all?  What wants free RAM there?

>One important rule is that you don't want to overlap RAM.

>Can you get to a monitor prompt without any RAM installed other than that 
>which is in the ROM board?

>b

Based on what I've read, you *have* to have A000 if your CPU card has been 
modified for Flex 2.0, which I've verified mine has.  When mods on the older 
MP-A cards are done apparently it disables the onboard RAM, and that's where 
A000 would be.  I could reverse the mod but I'm not sure if I want to forgo 
FLEX use.  So yeah, according to SWTPC.com since that mod was done, I have to 
have a board at $A000.  However, setting either of my configurable ram boards 
to that space doesn't work.  The system will only boot with that weird MP-M in. 
 So there's more to it than that.. probably mods above and beyond.

I suppose it wouldn't be too bad to just reverse the Flex 2.0 mods and start 
there.  I'm doubtful if I'd ever use it and I could always reverse again if I 
do..

Components available

[Tom Gardner]

Hi

A friend of mine died recently; he was amongst many things an electronics 
tinkerer and has a closet full of small parts in bin cabinets (resistors, 
capacitors, ICs, transistors, hardware, etc.).  The ICs look mostly old. His 
wife and kids have no interest and would like to find a good home for these 
parts rather than recycle the lot.

They are in Palo Alto CA

Anyone interested in using them could just pick them up in the next week or so.

Any other ideas?  Really hate to see these go to recycle.

Tom
(650) 941-5324  

 

Re: vt100 terminfo with padding for an actual vt100?

[Eric Christopherson]

On Tue, Sep 06, 2016, Paul Koning wrote:
[...]
> 19200?  I didn't think the VT100 supported that.
> 
> You've got to be careful with that setting, even on devices that claim
> to do it.  When it first appeared, it was often a "just barely
> possible" setting on the clock generator, with an actual bit rate off
> a couple of percent from the correct value.  If both ends used the
> same clock generators, no problem of course.  But if one end uses an
> accurate one, you may get framing errors.

Is this why modems went to 14400 instead of 19200?

[...]
> On the other hand, flow control issues do not result in "garbage"
> characters.  The only way you'd get what looks like garbage is if
> escape sequences are corrupted so a portion of that sequence is
> mistaken for text.  If you see garbage in a full screen editor, that
> could be the reason.  On the other hand, if you're just sending a
> large document to the screen and you're seeing garbage, flow control
> is not the cause.

Interesting. I've been trying to get a WiFi device for the Commodore
8-bits working consistently in 9600 bps mode, and have just been
assuming the garbage characters I get when I receive a screenful of text
all at once were due to buffer overruns. The garbage characters there
look like actual garbage, not like partial CSIs like [3;1m or whatever.

> 
> Earlier on there was some discussion about modern interface devices
> with non-compliant "RS232" transceivers.  If your RS232 output is
> marginal, that could cause garbage.  If the clocks are off, ditto.  An
> oscilloscope could be used to test both those theories.

I wonder if it's a similar sort of timing issue between my device and
the computer. I'll have to try a few computers and see if behavior
varies.

-- Eric Christopherson

Re: vt100 terminfo with padding for an actual vt100?

[Paul Koning]

> On Sep 6, 2016, at 7:18 PM, Eric Christopherson  
> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Sep 06, 2016, Paul Koning wrote:
> [...]
>> 19200?  I didn't think the VT100 supported that.
>> 
>> You've got to be careful with that setting, even on devices that claim
>> to do it.  When it first appeared, it was often a "just barely
>> possible" setting on the clock generator, with an actual bit rate off
>> a couple of percent from the correct value.  If both ends used the
>> same clock generators, no problem of course.  But if one end uses an
>> accurate one, you may get framing errors.
> 
> Is this why modems went to 14400 instead of 19200?

No, that's a matter of what next step modulation scheme had become feasible.

> [...]
>> On the other hand, flow control issues do not result in "garbage"
>> characters.  The only way you'd get what looks like garbage is if
>> escape sequences are corrupted so a portion of that sequence is
>> mistaken for text.  If you see garbage in a full screen editor, that
>> could be the reason.  On the other hand, if you're just sending a
>> large document to the screen and you're seeing garbage, flow control
>> is not the cause.
> 
> Interesting. I've been trying to get a WiFi device for the Commodore
> 8-bits working consistently in 9600 bps mode, and have just been
> assuming the garbage characters I get when I receive a screenful of text
> all at once were due to buffer overruns. The garbage characters there
> look like actual garbage, not like partial CSIs like [3;1m or whatever.

It's possible to imagine incompetently designed UARTs that do odd things.  But 
given a normal UART, the first step it performs is to frame the character and 
the bits.  That depends on an adequate signal, and a sufficiently accurate 
clock.  After that step, you have a received character which should be correct. 
 Next, that character has to be buffered and delivered to the consuming system. 
 That probably involves a FIFO, and either an interrupt or DMA.  If there is no 
room to buffer the character, it will be discarded, hopefully with a status in 
the UART registers to indicate that.  But either the character will be buffered 
as received, or not at all -- it would not be modified at this point.

Finally, if an XOFF is received, it has to be seen by the element that acts on 
it (either something in the serial port hardware, or the driver, or the 
application software) which has to stop the output stream.  If that takes too 
long, or the output buffers beyond the stop point are too large, too many 
characters may get out after the XOFF was sent.  That would generally cause a 
buffer overflow, which will drop characters as described above but will not 
modify them.

>> Earlier on there was some discussion about modern interface devices
>> with non-compliant "RS232" transceivers.  If your RS232 output is
>> marginal, that could cause garbage.  If the clocks are off, ditto.  An
>> oscilloscope could be used to test both those theories.
> 
> I wonder if it's a similar sort of timing issue between my device and
> the computer. I'll have to try a few computers and see if behavior
> varies.

You mean at the USB level?  Or in a computer serial port?  If the latter, the 
only timing issue I can think of would be baud rate clock issues.

BTW, a serial port baud rate generator is a programmable divider.  The range of 
speeds supported has changed over time; early on it was 110 to 9600 (or 
sometimes lower, say 110 to 2400).  The clock crystal was chosen to deliver 
"sufficiently accurate" frequencies, taking into account the way the bit 
framing was done in the particular UART design.  Some of those generators could 
do 19200 baud as well but that was often not supported because there the 
frequency was off too much.  If you used it anyway, and both ends use the same 
generator, all would be well.  You might be doing 19,900 baud rather than 
19,200, but that's ok so long as the ends agree.  But newer serial ports have a 
much higher upper limit, which means they have a higher frequency crystal and 
the individual error values for the individual speeds will be different.  For 
the ones that were in spec all along that should not be an issue; for ones that 
were out of spec, it probably would be.

paul

Re: vt100 terminfo with padding for an actual vt100?

[Cameron Kaiser]

> Interesting. I've been trying to get a WiFi device for the Commodore
> 8-bits working consistently in 9600 bps mode, and have just been
> assuming the garbage characters I get when I receive a screenful of text
> all at once were due to buffer overruns. The garbage characters there
> look like actual garbage, not like partial CSIs like [3;1m or whatever.

Unless you're using an ACIA cartridge, 9600bps on the C128 is problematic,
and impossible on the C64.

If you *are* using an ACIA cartridge, then 9600bps is well within spec and
should "just work." I'd look at your driver instead. A buffer overrun 
should just drop characters, not munge them.

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Burglar alarms: For the man who has everything! 

Re: Components available

[Brad H]

I'm all over stuff like that.. especially with my TVT project.  It has been a 
real slog finding correct looking vintage caps in particular.  I wish I lived 
nearby!


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Tom Gardner  
Date: 2016-09-06  4:18 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org 
Subject: Components available 

Hi

A friend of mine died recently; he was amongst many things an electronics 
tinkerer and has a closet full of small parts in bin cabinets (resistors, 
capacitors, ICs, transistors, hardware, etc.).  The ICs look mostly old. His 
wife and kids have no interest and would like to find a good home for these 
parts rather than recycle the lot.

They are in Palo Alto CA

Anyone interested in using them could just pick them up in the next week or so.

Any other ideas?  Really hate to see these go to recycle.

Tom
(650) 941-5324  

 

Re: vt100 terminfo with padding for an actual vt100?

[Eric Christopherson]

On Tue, Sep 06, 2016, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
> > Interesting. I've been trying to get a WiFi device for the Commodore
> > 8-bits working consistently in 9600 bps mode, and have just been
> > assuming the garbage characters I get when I receive a screenful of text
> > all at once were due to buffer overruns. The garbage characters there
> > look like actual garbage, not like partial CSIs like [3;1m or whatever.
> 
> Unless you're using an ACIA cartridge, 9600bps on the C128 is problematic,
> and impossible on the C64.

Not quite; someone named Daniel Dallmann found a way to do it on the
user port, on both 64 and 128 (in the 1990s, I think). It's commonly
called "UP9600". I've only found one terminal program* so far that
actually performs well and doesn't drop characters or bring up garbage
ones, on the device I mentioned (I have never tried it with a proper
modem).

I'm not sure what's different about the CIAs in the 64 and 128 but, in
the case of this specific hack, it's theoretically easier to deal with a
64 -- or at least a 128 with no 1571 or 1581 -- because the 9600bps hack
clobbers the SRQ line that those drives use for fast serial operations.
(Things still work if you turn them to slow mode, as happens when you
boot directly into 64 mode.) But I find that I never get it to work
non-problematically except when I use that one terminal emulator using
the C128's VDC for display. I'm not sure how much the 40-column mode's
1MHz clock contributes, and how much VIC emulated 80-column mode and the
VIC's scrolling speed, contribute to the problem. (Will have to try it
with true 40-column mode, but then the actual viewport will fill with
characters and need a scroll twice as fast.)

* The terminal emulator I've had success with is NovaTerm 9.6.

> 
> If you *are* using an ACIA cartridge, then 9600bps is well within spec and
> should "just work." I'd look at your driver instead. A buffer overrun 
> should just drop characters, not munge them.

I wish I could get more than one-sentence responses from the developer
of the device. Hopefully he'll fix it in the future, if I can make a
good case for it.

> 
> -- 
>  personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ 
> --
>   Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
> -- Burglar alarms: For the man who has everything! 
> 

-- 
Eric Christopherson

Re: More mystery recycler boards - DEC, Fujitsu(??), Cipher, Emulex

[Jules Richardson]

On 09/06/2016 01:46 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:

On Mon, Sep 05, 2016 at 04:48:43PM -0500, Jules Richardson wrote:


I think I'll see about getting the M8014, M8012, M8013 and M8061 boards
tomorrow.


How much do you pay for these? Do you intend to pass them on?


At the moment my plan is to try and digest exactly what I have, and what I 
might need in order to make something functional (certainly not a 
bells-and-whistles -11, but something that'll just run some code). A 
rack/case is low priority, but obviously there's the small matter of 
currently having no backplane or PSUs :-)  (although the PSU side of things 
could doubtless be rigged, at least for a small-scale setup)


Longer term I might be looking at trades or selling some stuff to go 
towards restoration of some of the other items in my collection, but I 
really dislike the idea of passing untested things on, so that still hinges 
on acquiring a backplane/PSUs/other ephemera so that I can at least assess 
operational status first.


Current board list in my possession is as follows:

__Digital boards__

M7856; DL11-W RS-232 SLU & RTC
M7951 (x2)   ; DUV11 sync-serial interface
M7957; DZV11, 4 LINE ASYNC MUX
M8012; bootstrap/terminator
M8013; RLV11 RL01/02
M8014; RLV11 RL01/02
M8043 (x3)   ; DLV11-J quad-port serial
M8044-DB ; 32kw memory
M8044-DF ; 32Kw memory
M8059-KF ; 128Kw memory
M8061 (x4)   ; RLV12 RL02 interface
M8067-KF ; 128Kw memory
M8067-LP ; 256Kw memory
M8186 (x2)   ; 11/23 CPU
M8189; 11/23+ CPU (and has the CIS option fitted, I think)
M8190-AE ; 11/83 CPU
M8190-AB ; 11/83 CPU (or /73??)  w/FPU
M8192; 11/73 CPU

__Emulex boards__

TU03 ; Pertec-compatible tape controller
SU02 (x2); SMD (??) controller
CU02 ; serial mux
QD32 ; SMD (??) controller
QD33 ; SMD controller
QD21 ; ESDI controller

__Misc boards__
Dilog CQ1610 ; 16-port serial
NS980110014  ; Natsemi 1MB (I think) DRAM board
Clearpoint   ; 4MB DRAM board

cheers

Jules

Re: vt100 terminfo with padding for an actual vt100?

[Cameron Kaiser]

> > > Interesting. I've been trying to get a WiFi device for the Commodore
> > > 8-bits working consistently in 9600 bps mode, and have just been
> > > assuming the garbage characters I get when I receive a screenful of text
> > > all at once were due to buffer overruns. The garbage characters there
> > > look like actual garbage, not like partial CSIs like [3;1m or whatever.
> > 
> > Unless you're using an ACIA cartridge, 9600bps on the C128 is problematic,
> > and impossible on the C64.
> 
> Not quite; someone named Daniel Dallmann found a way to do it on the
> user port, on both 64 and 128 (in the 1990s, I think). It's commonly
> called "UP9600".

Ah, yes. I vaguely remember that. I remember it being tricky, too. Life
is a lot easier with a Turbo232 or equivalent ...

> But I find that I never get it to work
> non-problematically except when I use that one terminal emulator using
> the C128's VDC for display.

I would imagine 2MHz mode certainly makes a difference here. I don't know if
NovaTerm runs the 8502 at that speed, but I would be surprised if it didn't.

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- I may be underpaid, but I underwork just to make it even. --

Re: vt100 terminfo with padding for an actual vt100?

[Eric Christopherson]

On Tue, Sep 06, 2016, Eric Christopherson wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 06, 2016, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
> > > Interesting. I've been trying to get a WiFi device for the Commodore
> > > 8-bits working consistently in 9600 bps mode, and have just been
> > > assuming the garbage characters I get when I receive a screenful of text
> > > all at once were due to buffer overruns. The garbage characters there
> > > look like actual garbage, not like partial CSIs like [3;1m or whatever.
> > 
> > Unless you're using an ACIA cartridge, 9600bps on the C128 is problematic,
> > and impossible on the C64.
> 
> Not quite; someone named Daniel Dallmann found a way to do it on the
> user port, on both 64 and 128 (in the 1990s, I think). It's commonly
> called "UP9600". I've only found one terminal program* so far that
> actually performs well and doesn't drop characters or bring up garbage
> ones, on the device I mentioned (I have never tried it with a proper
> modem).
> 
> I'm not sure what's different about the CIAs in the 64 and 128

I see a few mentions online about the 128 supporting 9600 natively, but
no real details. Do you have any to share?

I wonder if it'd be worth turning off the device's UP9600 support and
seeing if the 128 will still talk 9600 to it. (If I do keep it on,
apparently the 128 will be able to do 19200 -- but I'm not holding my
breath, based on my experience with 9600.)

> but, in
> the case of this specific hack, it's theoretically easier to deal with a
> 64 -- or at least a 128 with no 1571 or 1581 -- because the 9600bps hack
> clobbers the SRQ line that those drives use for fast serial operations.
> (Things still work if you turn them to slow mode, as happens when you
> boot directly into 64 mode.) But I find that I never get it to work
> non-problematically except when I use that one terminal emulator using
> the C128's VDC for display. I'm not sure how much the 40-column mode's
> 1MHz clock contributes, and how much VIC emulated 80-column mode and the
> VIC's scrolling speed, contribute to the problem. (Will have to try it
> with true 40-column mode, but then the actual viewport will fill with
> characters and need a scroll twice as fast.)
> 
> * The terminal emulator I've had success with is NovaTerm 9.6.
> 
> > 
> > If you *are* using an ACIA cartridge, then 9600bps is well within spec and
> > should "just work." I'd look at your driver instead. A buffer overrun 
> > should just drop characters, not munge them.
> 
> I wish I could get more than one-sentence responses from the developer
> of the device. Hopefully he'll fix it in the future, if I can make a
> good case for it.

-- 
Eric Christopherson

Re: Components available

[Al Kossow]

On 9/6/16 4:18 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:

> A friend of mine died recently; he was amongst many things an electronics 
> tinkerer and has a closet full of small parts in bin cabinets (resistors, 
> capacitors, ICs, transistors, hardware, etc.).


There is also a Unicomp 18 bit minicomputer, paper tape reader, and FFT 
processor circa 1972 in the garage (6ft rack)
with full documentation.

I walked out of the donations meeting with the other curators today who thought 
it was a piece of s**t and didn't want
to take it, calling it a 'dumpster fire'

Art was a friend of mine.

Hopefully it can go someplace where it can be appreciated.
Talk to Tom about it, unfortunately, time is short.

Re: vt100 terminfo with padding for an actual vt100?

[Cameron Kaiser]

> I see a few mentions online about the 128 supporting 9600 natively, but
> no real details. Do you have any to share?

IIRC -- and I haven't had to write Commodore user port serial code in a
long time -- it's much like a 64 doing 2400bps on the user port, it's
just bitbanging it at a higher rate instead of using the Kernal, and at
2MHz. 4800bps is definitely achievable and considered stable. I suppose you
could overdrive it to 9600 and I've heard of it being done, but I've never
written such code myself.

When I used Kermit on my 128 as my means of Internet access, I had a
SwiftLink.

> I wonder if it'd be worth turning off the device's UP9600 support and
> seeing if the 128 will still talk 9600 to it. (If I do keep it on,
> apparently the 128 will be able to do 19200 -- but I'm not holding my
> breath, based on my experience with 9600.)

I would be very impressed to get 19.2k out of that!

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- See You Next Wednesday -

Re: More mystery recycler boards - DEC, Fujitsu(??), Cipher, Emulex

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Jules Richardson

> M8190-AE ; 11/83 CPU
> M8190-AB ; 11/83 CPU (or /73??)  w/FPU

As far as I know, all the M8190's are _basically_ the same: they are the
KDJ11-B CPU, which support the PMI memory bus, can operate with a KTJ11-B to
provide a UNIBUS, etc. They are the CPU in an 11/83 (with QBUS only
backplane) and the 11/84 (with QBUS/UNIBUS backplane).

The various models of the M8190 vary in details (e.g. although all have a
socket for the FPJ11 floating point accelerator chip, the earlier ones don't
work properly with it), including the clock speed (15/18 MHz, etc).

The 11/73 uses the KDJ11-A M8192, a completely differente card.

Noel

RE: SWTPC 6800 weirdness

[Brad H]

I did a capacitor check on the modified MP-M board.  On the 100uf/16v one down 
at the bottom center, the most I get is 430uf and then it starts dropping.  I 
can't seem to get a proper reading out of the same one on the upper right.. 
that's the same on both MP-M boards.   So I'm wondering if I'd be best to try 
replacing that cap and see what happens.

RE: SWTPC 6800 weirdness

[Brad H]

I don't have the right caps to try with the MP-M so I'll have to wait.  But I 
did try again setting my DRC boards to A000.  And when the machine is turned 
on, it does respond, but it just produces garbage characters on the terminal.   
Sometimes, two, sometimes three, or a whole line of them.

I thought ok, maybe it's time to get back to basics and return this thing to 
stock form.  However, I noticed the CPU board has *also* been altered.  There 
is a second crystal on it next to the original and a 740LS00 piggybacked on top 
of another chip.  Oy!  Not sure what's going to happen if I try to put the rest 
of it back to stock.

Re: More mystery recycler boards - DEC, Fujitsu(??), Cipher, Emulex

[Jules Richardson]

On 09/06/2016 08:58 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote:

 > From: Jules Richardson

 > M8190-AE ; 11/83 CPU
 > M8190-AB ; 11/83 CPU (or /73??)  w/FPU

As far as I know, all the M8190's are _basically_ the same: they are the
KDJ11-B CPU, which support the PMI memory bus, can operate with a KTJ11-B to
provide a UNIBUS, etc. They are the CPU in an 11/83 (with QBUS only
backplane) and the 11/84 (with QBUS/UNIBUS backplane).


I got the /73 reference from a post of Pete's last year:

http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2015-February/002612.html

... but I' m guessing he just meant that the slower ones work at the same 
speed as a true /73?


Unfortunately there aren't any markings on the crystal on the -AB board 
(well, there probably are, but on the underside and it would have to be 
desoldered) so I don't know if it's a 15MHz or 18MHz part.


J.

Re: vt100 terminfo with padding for an actual vt100?

[Eric Christopherson]

On Tue, Sep 06, 2016, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
> > I see a few mentions online about the 128 supporting 9600 natively, but
> > no real details. Do you have any to share?
> 
> IIRC -- and I haven't had to write Commodore user port serial code in a
> long time -- it's much like a 64 doing 2400bps on the user port, it's
> just bitbanging it at a higher rate instead of using the Kernal, and at
> 2MHz. 4800bps is definitely achievable and considered stable. I suppose you
> could overdrive it to 9600 and I've heard of it being done, but I've never
> written such code myself.
> 
> When I used Kermit on my 128 as my means of Internet access, I had a
> SwiftLink.
> 
> > I wonder if it'd be worth turning off the device's UP9600 support and
> > seeing if the 128 will still talk 9600 to it. (If I do keep it on,
> > apparently the 128 will be able to do 19200 -- but I'm not holding my
> > breath, based on my experience with 9600.)
> 
> I would be very impressed to get 19.2k out of that!

Supposedly the CommodoreServer.com service is capable of 38400 -- on an
unmodified 64. I haven't gotten it to work yet (though the WiModem is
supposed to be capable).

-- 
Eric Christopherson

Re: Components available

[COURYHOUSE]

Yes it needs to be  saved... and yet  with all the extra   and duplicate  
stuff  CHM has  I bet  they do not have  one of these yet shun it...   
curious. kick their shins  for me  Al ok?
 
Unfortunately not  close  for me  to pickup.
 
all this stuff is  all part of the history
 
Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 9/6/2016 6:11:35 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
a...@bitsavers.org writes:



On 9/6/16 4:18 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:

> A friend  of mine died recently; he was amongst many things an 
electronics tinkerer and  has a closet full of small parts in bin cabinets 
(resistors, 
capacitors, ICs,  transistors, hardware, etc.).


There is also a Unicomp 18 bit  minicomputer, paper tape reader, and FFT 
processor circa 1972 in the garage  (6ft rack)
with full documentation.

I walked out of the donations  meeting with the other curators today who 
thought it was a piece of s**t and  didn't want
to take it, calling it a 'dumpster fire'

Art was a  friend of mine.

Hopefully it can go someplace where it can be  appreciated.
Talk to Tom about it, unfortunately, time is  short.

Re: The huge lot that had the NIB 8" floppies is now on ebay

[Ian S. King]

IMHO there have been some really fun conversations spun off of such posts,
whether of the nature of "What the h*ll is that?", or "What moron would
charge that much for that?", or even "Ah, I remember"  I agree that the
volume is low enough and the entertainment value high enough to leave
things be.  -- Ian

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 11:04 AM, Noel Chiappa 
wrote:

> > From: js
>
> > That would be my preference as well.  A "ccebay at classiccmp.org"
> list.
>
> I think we all know that wouldn't work, for a number of reasons.
>
> > Or at least in an indication in the subject line "ebay: [topic]" so
> > they can get filtered out.
>
> This, however, I can definitely see as a good move. I will add such a tag
> to
> any eBay notification posts I make, and I encourage everyone else who posts
> such to do the same.
>
>
> > From: Peter Coghlan
>
> >> It's a tiny bit more work to use them
>
> > Any given posting to a mailing list is sent by one person and read by
> > many. If there is a small effort to be made, it makes more sense for
> > the sender to make it once than all the interested recipients to have
> > to duplicate the effort.
>
> Excellent point.
>
> And the "eBay:" tag idea follow this principle too, I will note... So let's
> remember to add that tag, everyone!
>
> Noel
>



-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: Apple IIGS on epay - local pickup in Seattle

[Ian S. King]

Ack, I wish I'd seen this sooner!  I'm in Seattle  -- Ian

On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Eric Christopherson <
echristopher...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sep 5, 2016 2:36 PM, "Eric Christopherson" 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Sep 5, 2016 1:21 PM, "Glen Slick"  wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sep 5, 2016 11:07 AM, "Eric Christopherson" <
> echristopher...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Anyone want this? Less than 4 his remaining.
> > > >
> > > > Actually I'd love to have someone win it for me and sell it to me at
> > > VCFMW,
> > > > but I've never arranged such a thing so I don't know what to estimate
> the
> > > > cost to me would be. (Plus it probably won't stay at $49 for long.)
> I'd
> > > bid
> > > > on it myself and then worry about getting it to me, but they
> explicitly
> > > day
> > > > they don't accept third-party shippers.
> > >
> > > Item 401179185305 at Seattle Goodwill? Where are you located?
> >
> > Yes, that's the one. Sorry, just forgot to paste the link - - wasn't
> trying to keep others from finding it.
> >
> > http://m.ebay.com/itm/401179185305?_mwBanner=1
> >
> > >
> > > If you bid and won you could probably get someone on the list to pick
> it up
> > > for you and ship it to you after you paid for the item and the
> shipping.
> > >
> > > -Glen
>
> I didn't manage to win it, but Seattle Goodwill did tell me they would be
> fine with having someone pick it up for me.
>
> It only doubled in price... Pity.
>



-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: Components available

[Mark Linimon]

On Tue, Sep 06, 2016 at 06:16:23PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote:
> There is also a Unicomp 18 bit minicomputer, paper tape reader,
> and FFT processor circa 1972 in the garage (6ft rack) with full
> documentation.

I think it would be a damned shame if this went to recycling.  I can't
drive the 30 hours to come get it though.  (tbh the '99 pickup truck
does not have that kind of trip left in it anyways.)

mcl

Re: Components available

[Jason Howe]

On 09/06/2016 08:59 PM, Mark Linimon wrote:

On Tue, Sep 06, 2016 at 06:16:23PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote:

There is also a Unicomp 18 bit minicomputer, paper tape reader,
and FFT processor circa 1972 in the garage (6ft rack) with full
documentation.

I think it would be a damned shame if this went to recycling.  I can't
drive the 30 hours to come get it though.  (tbh the '99 pickup truck
does not have that kind of trip left in it anyways.)

mcl
That sounds amazing.  I'm in Seattle.  My time is pretty tight these 
days, but if someone up here was interested, I might be persuaded to do 
a tag-team driving run over a weekend.  My '81 Ford has plenty of life 
left in her.


I don't think I'm interested in it personally though, as I really have 
no idea what an Unicomp minicomputer is in the grand scheme of things...


--Jason

Re: Components available

[COURYHOUSE]

I just  do not  do the long drive well any more  I remember  I would drive 
straight  from  AZ  to San Jose  non stop  Now I  think  I would have to 
break it into a 4 day trip to be  comfortable. When it  comes to large  
trucks I just do not do them any  more.  The  cost of  shipping has  gotten  so 
 high  ( or maybe it is just the money is  just  worth less  now)
 
Ed# (wishing he was 40 years younger sometimes!)  _www.smecc.org_ 
(http://www.smecc.org)  
 
 
In a message dated 9/6/2016 8:59:10 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
lini...@lonesome.com writes:

On Tue,  Sep 06, 2016 at 06:16:23PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote:
> There is also a  Unicomp 18 bit minicomputer, paper tape reader,
> and FFT processor  circa 1972 in the garage (6ft rack) with full
> documentation.

I  think it would be a damned shame if this went to recycling.  I  can't
drive the 30 hours to come get it though.  (tbh the '99 pickup  truck
does not have that kind of trip left in it  anyways.)

mcl

Re: Complete DisplayWriter on eBay

[Mike]

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 19:26:26 Ali wrote:
> Well, looks like the seller cancelled the bids and suddenly item is no
> longer available. Would like to believe it is a mistake but we all know
> better...
> 
> -Ali


I have a compete unit in Ottawa if there's interest. 


-- 
Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600

Re: Complete DisplayWriter on eBay

[Bob Rosenbloom]

On 9/6/2016 9:27 PM, Mike wrote:

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 19:26:26 Ali wrote:

Well, looks like the seller cancelled the bids and suddenly item is no
longer available. Would like to believe it is a mistake but we all know
better...

-Ali


I have a compete unit in Ottawa if there's interest.




Looks like it's up again:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-IBM-Display-Writer-/201663310218?hash=item2ef411e98a:g:McUAAOSwv2JXwaQw

-Bob

--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

RE: SWTPC 6800 weirdness

[Brad H]

Okay I think I'm starting to figure this out a bit.  Beginning with basics, I 
cleaned up the contacts on all the SS50 pins.  The system seems to power up 
more reliably now.  Next, I poked around in the monitor to figure out exactly 
which addresses the modified MP-M board was dealing with.  Since it has 64 
chips on it (32 ICs x with 32 more piggybacked), I assumed it probably has 16K. 
 I figured out it went from 8000 to around BFFF.  I think.

So next I installed the DR 16K boards.  I configured one for -3FFF, and the 
second for C000-.  So that leaves 4000-7FFF uncovered.

So now I went to the second MP-M board.  This board has 8K installed, and I 
assumed it followed the MP-MX specs for upgrading to that.  But, it doesn't.  
There were several cut traces and jumper wires.  I have no idea why or what 
for.  So I went and reversed all of that, and then set the address jumper to 
start at 4000.  That gave me 4K more of RAM, covering 4000-4FFF.  I don't know 
why it didn't give me 8K, up to 5FFF.  I'm thinking it has something to do with 
the way it was modded.

At any rate, the machine is almost fully decked out.  I was able to load TSC 
Basic without any issues.  Yay!  So I think next goal is figure out how to use 
the RAM diags properly and then sic those on it and see how things check out.

Re: RK05 packs

[Marc Howard]

It seems to me that one possible solution would be to whip up a PLL in a
CPLD or FPGA to generate 12 sector timing from a 16 sector pack or vice
versa.


On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 8:58 AM,  wrote:

> I'd like to trade two media.
>
> > Am 06.09.2016 um 17:48 schrieb Noel Chiappa :
> >
> > So I have a fairly large group of 16-sector RK05 packs (i.e. PDP-8, -12)
> which
> > I have no use for, which I would like to trade for 12-sector RK05 packs
> (i.e.
> > PDP-11). Anyone have any of the latter, and need the former?
> >
> > Alternatively, if anyone has any head-crashed 12-sector RK05 packs, I
> would be
> > interested in buying them (or trading something else) for them. (I am
> reliably
> > informed that one can replace the platter on an RK05 pack without too
> much
> > work, so I'd transplant the 12-sector hubs into the packs I already
> have).
> >
> > (Replies to me, please, not the whole list - unless there's some point
> you
> > wish to make which would be of general interest.)
> >
> >Noel
>

Odd memory error in PDP-11/04

[Ethan Dicks]

Hi, All,

I've finally tracked down the simplest problems in my PDP-11/04 that's
been sitting unused for many years (the one that we formerly used as a
hardware test platform for Unibus COMBOARDs 30 years ago).  The
primary faults were a half-bad 7474 in the console (the flip-flop
attached to the Run LED was not toggling when it should) _and_ an
apparently bad DL11-W that isn't passing grant - for now replaced with
a fully-functional module, but to be debugged later).

What's happening now, since I can finally enter octal at the console,
is when I change one location, 00 for example, it echoes across
multiple locations...

To whit:

I use the console to fill 00 to 40 with zeros, and verify they
are all zeros.  I deposit 17 in 00 and I get back the
following...

@L 1000
@D 17
@L 1000
@E 001000 17
@E 001002 004000
@E 001004 004000
@E 001006 004000
@E 001010 004000
@E 001012 004000
@E 001014 004000
@E 001016 004000
@E 001020 17
@E 001022 004000
@E 001024 004000
@E 001026 004000
@E 001030 004000
@E 001032 004000
@E 001034 004000
@E 001036 004000
@E 001040 004000
@E 001042 13
@E 001044 17

I replace the 00 at 00 and get all zeros.

So I appear to have two problems:

1) Depositing any value is echoed 20 later.

2) Setting D10 in location 00 results in D10 set in all the locations

I have few spares for this machine.  Lots of spares for my 11/34
(which I will want to test at some point soon), but this box (BA11-L)
has a DD11DK not a DD11-PK, so I can't just upgrade in place.

Does this sound like a dodgy CPU, dodgy RAM or both?

I have this minimally loaded...

M7263 PDP-11/04 processor
M7847 16K MOS RAM (half loaded)
M9312 with console ROM and papertape boot ROM (I have more ROMs available)
M7856 - DL11-W strapped to defaults as a console/RTC
many dual-height grant cards
M9302 terminator
UA-11 debugging board

Oh... and I see while typing that it just started halting immediately
after reset... so something just broke while it was powered on and
running the console ODT.  :-(  I guess I'm back to low-level hardware
debugging again.

But in the meantime, any CPU/RAM symptom suggestions?  I have the
prints.  I'm just looking for any "oh, yeah!  That happened to me!"
with "...and I fixed it by testing X and replacing the bad ones".

All this so I can make a test bed for my M9313 boards and get them
working again to fix the DWBUA on my VAX 8300...

-ethan

Re: PDP-8 core memory problems.

[Anders Sandahl]

So what are the other options?
* Trying to repair the unit. Every plane is soldered together with the ones
nearby to convey the X/Y signals. This can probably be undone with a
patience and soldering braid. But what are the chance that the X/Y wires
gets lose then? Are those soldered or welded into place?

Then it would be quite tricky to just identify where it is actually broken.
Any ideas for how to do this? A microscope of course. Any other ideas?
Applying an electrical field between the wire and something else and try to
detect it?

A stereoscopic microscope and a lot of patience is a good staring point.


Repair. If the wire is broken in the mat it is probably not to difficult to
pull out the broken parts. But then the new wire has to be spliced in. What
is t he best technique to do that?
How to push in the new wire in the matrix? I now that Anders was able to do
this with a broken X-wire in a PDP-8/L stack.
I used a pair of tweezers to push the new thread in, one core at a time. 
You should try to change as small part as possible. I just changed the 
thread thru the first 64 cores, then I joined the two threads together 
in the middle of the core plan. I then used nail polish as an isolatur.


I didn't thought I had something to lose to try to repair the existing 
core stack. Without it the computer is really not working at all. I'll 
think you should try to repair it. Start to bring out the core stack 
and  then turn it around for a while until you are brave enough.


I found some pictures on stacks to the 8/L in pieces before I started on 
the internet, that helped me to understand what I had to master.


/Anders

UNIBUS M9312 ROM type identification

[JP Hindin]

Greetings;

My googlefu is failing me and I was wondering if someone might be able to 
help me identify one of the boot ROMs present in an M9312 bootstrap/term 
board. The board has three ROMs, an RX01 (042130), an RX02 (042131) and 
then a mystery code - 043127.


The M9312 ROM identification table does not list this ROM code - I suspect 
it _might_ be for a DSD combined 8" drive and Winchester disk box, but I'm 
under the impression this would appear as a DU device, and attempting to 
boot from DU gets an ILL CMD, suggesting otherwise. I tried all of the 
other possible mnemonics listed in the M9312 manual, so it doesn't appear 
to piggy-backing on any of those either.


My thanks;

 - JP

Re: Components available

[Josh Dersch]

On 9/6/16 9:09 PM, Jason Howe wrote:


On 09/06/2016 08:59 PM, Mark Linimon wrote:

On Tue, Sep 06, 2016 at 06:16:23PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote:

There is also a Unicomp 18 bit minicomputer, paper tape reader,
and FFT processor circa 1972 in the garage (6ft rack) with full
documentation.

I think it would be a damned shame if this went to recycling.  I can't
drive the 30 hours to come get it though.  (tbh the '99 pickup truck
does not have that kind of trip left in it anyways.)

mcl
That sounds amazing.  I'm in Seattle.  My time is pretty tight these 
days, but if someone up here was interested, I might be persuaded to 
do a tag-team driving run over a weekend.  My '81 Ford has plenty of 
life left in her.


I don't think I'm interested in it personally though, as I really have 
no idea what an Unicomp minicomputer is in the grand scheme of things...


--Jason



I'd join you on that trip, except I have no idea where I'd fit another 
6' rack at the moment... ah, physical space is a harsh mistress...


- Josh

Re: Components available

[Mark Linimon]

On Wed, Sep 07, 2016 at 12:12:28AM -0400, couryho...@aol.com wrote:
> I remember I would drive straight from AZ to San Jose non stop ...

Yeah.  I can reasonably do 7 hours; 8 if I really push it but you don't
want to be in the car with me as I fuss and spit.

And you damned kids can get off all of our lawns, too!

mcl

Re: Components available

[COURYHOUSE]

In a message dated 9/6/2016 10:13:30 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
dersc...@gmail.com writes:

On  9/6/16 9:09 PM, Jason Howe wrote:

> On 09/06/2016 08:59 PM, Mark  Linimon wrote:
>> On Tue, Sep 06, 2016 at 06:16:23PM -0700, Al Kossow  wrote:
>>> There is also a Unicomp 18 bit minicomputer, paper tape  reader,
>>> and FFT processor circa 1972 in the garage (6ft rack)  with full
>>> documentation.
>> I think it would be a  damned shame if this went to recycling.  I can't
>> drive the 30  hours to come get it though.  (tbh the '99 pickup truck
>> does  not have that kind of trip left in it anyways.)
>>
>>  mcl
> That sounds amazing.  I'm in Seattle.  My time is pretty  tight these 
> days, but if someone up here was interested, I might be  persuaded to 
> do a tag-team driving run over a weekend.  My '81  Ford has plenty of 
> life left in her.
>
> I don't think  I'm interested in it personally though, as I really have 
> no idea what  an Unicomp minicomputer is in the grand scheme of things...
>
>  --Jason
>

I'd join you on that trip, except I have no idea where  I'd fit another 
6' rack at the moment... ah, physical space is a harsh  mistress...

- Josh


think of it this way... if  you have an 8 something foot ceiling and  you 
have a row of 6 foot tacks there is room for one more rack LAYING ACROSS  
THE TO SIDEWISE!Ed#  

RE: Complete DisplayWriter on eBay

[Ali]

> I have a compete unit in Ottawa if there's interest.


As in Ottawa, Canada? If so my significant interest diminished as I imagined
the cost of S&H. No offense ;)...

-Ali

Re: Components available

[Bob Rosenbloom]

.

> On Sep 6, 2016, at 6:16 PM, Al Kossow  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 9/6/16 4:18 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:
>> 
>> A friend of mine died recently; he was amongst many things an electronics 
>> tinkerer and has a closet full of small parts in bin cabinets (resistors, 
>> capacitors, ICs, transistors, hardware, etc.).
> 
> 
> There is also a Unicomp 18 bit minicomputer, paper tape reader, and FFT 
> processor circa 1972 in the garage (6ft rack)
> with full documentation.
> 
> I walked out of the donations meeting with the other curators today who 
> thought it was a piece of s**t and didn't want
> to take it, calling it a 'dumpster fire'
> 
> Art was a friend of mine.
> 
> Hopefully it can go someplace where it can be appreciated.
> Talk to Tom about it, unfortunately, time is short.
> 

I have room for it. I emailed and called Tom so at least it should not get 
scrapped.
Wish it had a real front panel though.

Bob

Sent, poorly, from my iPad

Why V.32bis modems are 14400 bps rather than 19200 bps (was Re: vt100 terminfo with padding for an actual vt100?)

[Eric Smith]

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 5:18 PM, Eric Christopherson
 wrote:
> Is this why modems went to 14400 instead of 19200?

No, that was because the V.32 modulation was easily extended to 12000
and 14400 bps by slightly expanding the QAM signal constellation,
requiring a little better SNR on the line, but keeping other
parameters the same and increasing the constellation size enough to
get 19200 bps was not expected to work within available SNR on most
POTS lines.  That didn't stop some vendors from offering 19200 as a
proprietary extension to V.32bis. It's known unofficially as V.32ter,
but was never actually ratified as an ITU-T V-series recommendation.

V.32 at 9600bps uses 1800Hz carrier, 2400 baud, and 32 carrier states
(constellation points) using one trellis coding bit for 4 data bits,
so effectively 4 data bits per baud, and 2400 * 4 = 9600 bps.

V.32bis at 14400bps uses the same carrier and baud rate, and  128
carrier states (constellation points), with slightly more complex
trellis coding, so effectively 6 data bits per baud, and 2400 * 6 =
14400 bps.  (There's also a fallback to 12000 bps)

V.32 and V.32bis are synchronous modulation, and when used with V.42
error control and a normal serial port configuration of 8N1, the modem
effectively removes the start and stop bits (20% overhead on the
serial port), though framing is added so that the throughput doesn't
go up by that full amount.  This is noticeable when running such a
modem with a higher serial port baud rate (requiring flow control).
For instance, a V.32 9600bps modem without V.42 would be able to
transfer 960 characters per second, but with V.42 and a higher serial
port rate with flow control, can exceed that.

V.42bis compression can further improve the throughput provided that
the data is compressible.

To go beyond 14400 bps with conventional modulation and typical POTS
line SNR requires more complex techniques, used in V.34 for up to
33600 bps.

Abandoning conventional modulation and introducing a direct dependency
on the PCM line code used within the PSTN allows up to 56000 bps PCM
downstream and 33600 bps using V.34 modulation upstream (V.90), or
56000 bps PCM downstream and 48000 bps PCM upstream (V.92)

Re: RK05 packs

[Ethan Dicks]

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Marc Howard  wrote:
> It seems to me that one possible solution would be to whip up a PLL in a
> CPLD or FPGA to generate 12 sector timing from a 16 sector pack or vice
> versa.

This is one of the recurring conversations here - 12-sector packs are
abundant compared to 16-sector packs, and the only difference is the
slits in the hub and the consequent formatting on the matching
controller...

-ethan

Re: HP-35/45 Simulator for PDP-8

[Kyle Owen]

I updated the project to include optional OS/8 support. I won't say I've
tested it extensively, but it does seem to be working as expected in SimH,
anyways. I updated the README to reflect the additions. The directory
structure was also updated to something more sane.

The keen observer will note that I also changed up some of the debugging
features which are likely to not be useful to anyone other than the
author...and even then, I only used the features a few times when getting
the thing running initially. But, it's there if you need it, all
configurable through the switch register as detailed in the source.

Glad some folks got a kick out of it enough to try it out! Feel free to
suggest improvements where you see fit. I was thinking about adding support
to read keystrokes from a file for macro programmability...but that might
be too absurd even for this project. Maybe the HP-41C simulator is next...
:)

Kyle

Re: RK05 packs

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Wed, Sep 07, 2016 at 01:58:24AM -0400, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Marc Howard  wrote:
> > It seems to me that one possible solution would be to whip up a PLL in a
> > CPLD or FPGA to generate 12 sector timing from a 16 sector pack or vice
> > versa.
> 
> This is one of the recurring conversations here - 12-sector packs are
> abundant compared to 16-sector packs, and the only difference is the
> slits in the hub and the consequent formatting on the matching
> controller...
> 
> -ethan

I do recall discussion of manufacturing new hubs but not the outcome. I 
imagine that someone with access to a lathe and mill would be able to 
make new hubs with good enough tolerances.

Is there some caveat to doing this (besides finding someone with a lathe 
and mill?)

/P

Re: Components available

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Tue, Sep 06, 2016 at 06:16:23PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote:
> 
> I walked out of the donations meeting with the other curators today 
> who thought it was a piece of s**t and didn't want to take it, calling 
> it a 'dumpster fire'
> 

Wow, what an attitude.. I don't know much about Unicomps but should 
lesser know machines but unusual machines be preserved as well?

/P

Re: UNIBUS M9312 ROM type identification

[Don North]

On 9/6/2016 9:23 AM, JP Hindin wrote:


Greetings;

My googlefu is failing me and I was wondering if someone might be able to help 
me identify one of the boot ROMs present in an M9312 bootstrap/term board. The 
board has three ROMs, an RX01 (042130), an RX02 (042131) and then a mystery 
code - 043127.


The M9312 ROM identification table does not list this ROM code - I suspect it 
_might_ be for a DSD combined 8" drive and Winchester disk box, but I'm under 
the impression this would appear as a DU device, and attempting to boot from 
DU gets an ILL CMD, suggesting otherwise. I tried all of the other possible 
mnemonics listed in the M9312 manual, so it doesn't appear to piggy-backing on 
any of those either.


My thanks;

 - JP

Octal word 042130 decodes as ascii "DX", which is the M9312 boot mnemonic for 
the RX01 drive/RX11 controller combo.


Octal word 042131 decodes as ascii "DY", which is the M9312 boot mnemonic for 
the RX02 drive/RX211 controller combo.


Octal word 043127 decodes as ascii "FW", which is not a standard M9312 boot 
mnemonic. Probably a third party manufacturer custom boot prom.


FYI the above octal words are programmed in the first word of each boot PROM, so 
they are accessible at locations 773000,


You can find program listings and hex PROM images of all the known M9312 devices 
here:  http://www.ak6dn.com/PDP-11/M9312/, including the DX and DY PROMs.


Don

Re: UNIBUS M9312 ROM type identification

[Don North]

On 9/6/2016 11:55 PM, Don North wrote:

On 9/6/2016 9:23 AM, JP Hindin wrote:


Greetings;

My googlefu is failing me and I was wondering if someone might be able to 
help me identify one of the boot ROMs present in an M9312 bootstrap/term 
board. The board has three ROMs, an RX01 (042130), an RX02 (042131) and then 
a mystery code - 043127.


The M9312 ROM identification table does not list this ROM code - I suspect it 
_might_ be for a DSD combined 8" drive and Winchester disk box, but I'm under 
the impression this would appear as a DU device, and attempting to boot from 
DU gets an ILL CMD, suggesting otherwise. I tried all of the other possible 
mnemonics listed in the M9312 manual, so it doesn't appear to piggy-backing 
on any of those either.


My thanks;

 - JP

Octal word 042130 decodes as ascii "DX", which is the M9312 boot mnemonic for 
the RX01 drive/RX11 controller combo.


Octal word 042131 decodes as ascii "DY", which is the M9312 boot mnemonic for 
the RX02 drive/RX211 controller combo.


Octal word 043127 decodes as ascii "FW", which is not a standard M9312 boot 
mnemonic. Probably a third party manufacturer custom boot prom.


FYI the above octal words are programmed in the first word of each boot PROM, 
so they are accessible at locations 773000,


You can find program listings and hex PROM images of all the known M9312 
devices here:  http://www.ak6dn.com/PDP-11/M9312/, including the DX and DY PROMs.


Don


Whoops I sent before finishing this line:

FYI the above octal words are programmed in the first word of each boot PROM, so 
they are accessible at locations 773000, 773200, 773400, 773600 as 18b UNIBUS 
address.


Don