Intel SDK-85 monitor ROM

[Alexis Kotlowy]

Hi List,

I've started looking at my SDK-85 after having it on the shelf for
years. I know the 8355 mask ROM on it isn't working but I haven't been
able to find a suitable replacement. I wired up a temporary solution
with a 2716 EPROM only to find the ROM image and source code aren't
available outside of dead-tree format. I'm not about ready to type out
48 pages of source code. Does anyone have a digital copy of the source,
or the assembled binary or, even better, a replacement ROM?

(I'm in Adelaide, Australia.)

Cheers,

Alexis.

Re: Intel SDK-85 monitor ROM

[Chris Elmquist]

I believe I can help with this.  Although I do not have a spare device, I do 
have the binary as Intel hex as I had the same device fail on my SDK-85 and 
went through the exercise replacing it.  I'll report back off list once I dig 
up the file.

Chris


On August 13, 2016 3:07:06 AM CDT, Alexis Kotlowy 
 wrote:
>Hi List,
>
>I've started looking at my SDK-85 after having it on the shelf for
>years. I know the 8355 mask ROM on it isn't working but I haven't been
>able to find a suitable replacement. I wired up a temporary solution
>with a 2716 EPROM only to find the ROM image and source code aren't
>available outside of dead-tree format. I'm not about ready to type out
>48 pages of source code. Does anyone have a digital copy of the source,
>or the assembled binary or, even better, a replacement ROM?
>
>(I'm in Adelaide, Australia.)
>
>Cheers,
>
>Alexis.

-- 
Chris Elmquist

Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels - PDP-11

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Rod Smallwood

   > Please register interest in ... PDP-11 panels

It will depend on price - will they be the same as the PDP-8 panels (since
they are so similar)? If so, can you remind us of the pricing, please? If
not, any estimate?

I assume you'll eventually be doing all of them (/35, /40, /45, /50, /55, /70
- both variants), but the order will depend on interest? Do you have a /20
panel scan/measurements, to do that one too? If there is any interest in
/05-/10 panels, I have one and can scan it.

I can't recall any other models with front panels? (Well, the /74, but IIRC
there are none of those extant outside museums - although people might want
some for simulators.)

Noel

Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels - PDP-11

[Christian Gauger-Cosgrove]

On 13 August 2016 at 08:07, Noel Chiappa  wrote:
> I can't recall any other models with front panels? (Well, the /74, but IIRC
> there are none of those extant outside museums - although people might want
> some for simulators.)
>

The whole list of PDP-11 models with any sort of front panel beyond
just an on/off switch is:
> 11/20 (11/15)
> 11/05 (11/10)
> 11/40 (11/35)
> 11/45 (11/50, 11/55)
> 11/70 (11/74)
> 11/34 (11/04, 11/34A) --- "Calculator" style panel (like an 8/A)
> 11/60 --- "Calculator" style panel.

I've put OEM machines, and machines that are otherwise identical, or
nearly so in parens. The '45 and '50 panels are the same except for
the number, while the '55 panel is painted completely differently. The
same goes for the '70 versus '74 panels: Same indicators and
everything, just completely different paint job.

The panel on the '74 is almost exactly like a standard '70 panel, just
its in "blue" (i.e. like the DECdatasystem-570 that Dave McGuire
owns). Compare:
11/74: 

11/70: 
The only other major difference between the '70 and '74 panels is that
the '74 uses the "chiclet" switches as on the '05/'10 instead of the
"normal" triangular plastic ones you find on a standard '70.

There's also different coloured versions for many of the panels too.
E.g. there's a brown-and-white '70 panel used in OEM typesetting
systems by CSI Systems (if I recall right). There's a blue-and-red '40
panel sold by DEC in their "INDUSTRIAL-11" version. A photo exists
showing an 11/20 and an 8/e in "labratory" green (i.e. the LAB-8/e
colour scheme).


With regards to the 11/74, last I heard there were no machines extant.
Apparently there's an 11/74 panel plexiglass "floating around", but I
don't recall who owns it.


As an aside thought: I'd love to see a "blue" 11/70 or an 11/74 panel
running with either blue LEDs or white LEDs. That would probably look
very nice… hopefully Rob will do a one of those panels because that
sounds like a fun project.


Cheers,
Christian


-- 
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.

Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels - PDP-11

[Rod Smallwood]

On 13/08/2016 14:20, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:

On 13 August 2016 at 08:07, Noel Chiappa  wrote:

I can't recall any other models with front panels? (Well, the /74, but IIRC
there are none of those extant outside museums - although people might want
some for simulators.)


The whole list of PDP-11 models with any sort of front panel beyond
just an on/off switch is:

11/20 (11/15)
11/05 (11/10)
11/40 (11/35)
11/45 (11/50, 11/55)
11/70 (11/74)
11/34 (11/04, 11/34A) --- "Calculator" style panel (like an 8/A)
11/60 --- "Calculator" style panel.

I've put OEM machines, and machines that are otherwise identical, or
nearly so in parens. The '45 and '50 panels are the same except for
the number, while the '55 panel is painted completely differently. The
same goes for the '70 versus '74 panels: Same indicators and
everything, just completely different paint job.

The panel on the '74 is almost exactly like a standard '70 panel, just
its in "blue" (i.e. like the DECdatasystem-570 that Dave McGuire
owns). Compare:
11/74: 

11/70: 
The only other major difference between the '70 and '74 panels is that
the '74 uses the "chiclet" switches as on the '05/'10 instead of the
"normal" triangular plastic ones you find on a standard '70.

There's also different coloured versions for many of the panels too.
E.g. there's a brown-and-white '70 panel used in OEM typesetting
systems by CSI Systems (if I recall right). There's a blue-and-red '40
panel sold by DEC in their "INDUSTRIAL-11" version. A photo exists
showing an 11/20 and an 8/e in "labratory" green (i.e. the LAB-8/e
colour scheme).


With regards to the 11/74, last I heard there were no machines extant.
Apparently there's an 11/74 panel plexiglass "floating around", but I
don't recall who owns it.


As an aside thought: I'd love to see a "blue" 11/70 or an 11/74 panel
running with either blue LEDs or white LEDs. That would probably look
very nice… hopefully Rob will do a one of those panels because that
sounds like a fun project.


Cheers,
Christian



Thank you very much that's a mine of information.

Most Helpful
Rod (Panelman) Smallwood

Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels - PDP-11

[Rod Smallwood]

On 13/08/2016 13:07, Noel Chiappa wrote:

 > From: Rod Smallwood

> Please register interest in ... PDP-11 panels

It will depend on price - will they be the same as the PDP-8 panels (since
they are so similar)? If so, can you remind us of the pricing, please? If
not, any estimate?

I assume you'll eventually be doing all of them (/35, /40, /45, /50, /55, /70
- both variants), but the order will depend on interest? Do you have a /20
panel scan/measurements, to do that one too? If there is any interest in
/05-/10 panels, I have one and can scan it.

I can't recall any other models with front panels? (Well, the /74, but IIRC
there are none of those extant outside museums - although people might want
some for simulators.)

Noel


Yes the same for PDP-11 front panels as PDP-8
$150 per panel $20 shipping to US. For stock panels

Large, one off and custom panels please ask me.

Rod (Panelman) Smallwood

RE: Flex Disc options for the HP 9825

[Rik Bos]

For what it's worth a small warning about the HP 9825 series computers.
The power supply doesn't have a crowbar(over voltage protection), so a
transistor failure in the Psu can be catastrophic.
On the other hand the two 9835's I have, which uses the same form factor and
almost the same power supply layout are HP modified with crowbars added.
It seems to be good practice to add some ov-protection to the HP 9825 supply
because the switching transistor and 723 voltage regulators don't have the
eternal life.
And there no certain prediction in how they fail, short or open circuit, I
found out the hard way several years ago.

-Rik

Re: Flex Disc options for the HP 9825

[curiousmarc3]

Thanks for the info. Any schematics of the modification?
Marc


> On Aug 13, 2016, at 2:37 AM, Rik Bos  wrote:
> 
> 
> For what it's worth a small warning about the HP 9825 series computers.
> The power supply doesn't have a crowbar(over voltage protection), so a
> transistor failure in the Psu can be catastrophic.
> On the other hand the two 9835's I have, which uses the same form factor and
> almost the same power supply layout are HP modified with crowbars added.
> It seems to be good practice to add some ov-protection to the HP 9825 supply
> because the switching transistor and 723 voltage regulators don't have the
> eternal life.
> And there no certain prediction in how they fail, short or open circuit, I
> found out the hard way several years ago.
> 
> -Rik
> 

Re: Intel SDK-85 monitor ROM

[Glen Slick]

I sent him a private email with a binary dump of the 8355 from my SDK-85.

It shouldn't be hard to find an Intel 8755 EPROM version of the 8355
ROM version. Then you just need to find someone to program it if you
can't program it yourself. I can program 8755 parts, but postage to
Australia might not be cheap.

-Glen

On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 4:15 AM, Chris Elmquist  wrote:
> I believe I can help with this.  Although I do not have a spare device, I do 
> have the binary as Intel hex as I had the same device fail on my SDK-85 and 
> went through the exercise replacing it.  I'll report back off list once I dig 
> up the file.
>
> Chris
>
>
> On August 13, 2016 3:07:06 AM CDT, Alexis Kotlowy 
>  wrote:
>>Hi List,
>>
>>I've started looking at my SDK-85 after having it on the shelf for
>>years. I know the 8355 mask ROM on it isn't working but I haven't been
>>able to find a suitable replacement. I wired up a temporary solution
>>with a 2716 EPROM only to find the ROM image and source code aren't
>>available outside of dead-tree format. I'm not about ready to type out
>>48 pages of source code. Does anyone have a digital copy of the source,
>>or the assembled binary or, even better, a replacement ROM?
>>
>>(I'm in Adelaide, Australia.)
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Alexis.
>
> --
> Chris Elmquist

Re: Intel SDK-85 monitor ROM

[Chris Elmquist]

On Saturday (08/13/2016 at 09:59AM -0700), Glen Slick wrote:
> I sent him a private email with a binary dump of the 8355 from my SDK-85.
> 
> It shouldn't be hard to find an Intel 8755 EPROM version of the 8355
> ROM version. Then you just need to find someone to program it if you
> can't program it yourself. I can program 8755 parts, but postage to
> Australia might not be cheap.

And I did same.  So, he's potentially got two versions ;-)

I did fix mine with an 8755.   The failure mode of the 8355 was
intermittent.  I was able to keep it running by pressing on it and
hitting it with freeze spray.  I kept it alive long enough to run a
little dump routine which sent the ROM contents out the serial port
where I captured it.

I then turned this into Intel hex and used that to program a new 8755
which replaced the 8355.

Chris

> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 4:15 AM, Chris Elmquist  wrote:
> > I believe I can help with this.  Although I do not have a spare device, I 
> > do have the binary as Intel hex as I had the same device fail on my SDK-85 
> > and went through the exercise replacing it.  I'll report back off list once 
> > I dig up the file.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > On August 13, 2016 3:07:06 AM CDT, Alexis Kotlowy 
> >  wrote:
> >>Hi List,
> >>
> >>I've started looking at my SDK-85 after having it on the shelf for
> >>years. I know the 8355 mask ROM on it isn't working but I haven't been
> >>able to find a suitable replacement. I wired up a temporary solution
> >>with a 2716 EPROM only to find the ROM image and source code aren't
> >>available outside of dead-tree format. I'm not about ready to type out
> >>48 pages of source code. Does anyone have a digital copy of the source,
> >>or the assembled binary or, even better, a replacement ROM?
> >>
> >>(I'm in Adelaide, Australia.)
> >>
> >>Cheers,
> >>
> >>Alexis.
> >
> > --
> > Chris Elmquist

-- 
Chris Elmquist

Re: Flex Disc options for the HP 9825

[Jos Dreesen]

On 13.08.2016 11:37, Rik Bos wrote:


For what it's worth a small warning about the HP 9825 series computers.
The power supply doesn't have a crowbar(over voltage protection), so a
transistor failure in the Psu can be catastrophic.
On the other hand the two 9835's I have, which uses the same form factor and
almost the same power supply layout are HP modified with crowbars added.
It seems to be good practice to add some ov-protection to the HP 9825 supply
because the switching transistor and 723 voltage regulators don't have the
eternal life.
And there no certain prediction in how they fail, short or open circuit, I
found out the hard way several years ago.

-Rik



The same is true of the PDP8/L. I also found out the hard way
That L is still not running, but the PS now has a crowbar !


Jos

Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels - PDP-11

[Don North]

On 8/13/2016 6:20 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:

On 13 August 2016 at 08:07, Noel Chiappa  wrote:

I can't recall any other models with front panels? (Well, the /74, but IIRC
there are none of those extant outside museums - although people might want
some for simulators.)


The whole list of PDP-11 models with any sort of front panel beyond
just an on/off switch is:

11/20 (11/15)
11/05 (11/10)
11/40 (11/35)
11/45 (11/50, 11/55)
11/70 (11/74)
11/34 (11/04, 11/34A) --- "Calculator" style panel (like an 8/A)
11/60 --- "Calculator" style panel.

I've put OEM machines, and machines that are otherwise identical, or
nearly so in parens. The '45 and '50 panels are the same except for
the number, while the '55 panel is painted completely differently. The
same goes for the '70 versus '74 panels: Same indicators and
everything, just completely different paint job.

The panel on the '74 is almost exactly like a standard '70 panel, just
its in "blue" (i.e. like the DECdatasystem-570 that Dave McGuire
owns). Compare:
11/74: 

11/70: 
The only other major difference between the '70 and '74 panels is that
the '74 uses the "chiclet" switches as on the '05/'10 instead of the
"normal" triangular plastic ones you find on a standard '70.

There's also different coloured versions for many of the panels too.
E.g. there's a brown-and-white '70 panel used in OEM typesetting
systems by CSI Systems (if I recall right). There's a blue-and-red '40
panel sold by DEC in their "INDUSTRIAL-11" version. A photo exists
showing an 11/20 and an 8/e in "labratory" green (i.e. the LAB-8/e
colour scheme).


With regards to the 11/74, last I heard there were no machines extant.
Apparently there's an 11/74 panel plexiglass "floating around", but I
don't recall who owns it.


Like this maybe:   http://www.ak6dn.com/stuff/1174.jpg

This is a 'true' 11/74 panel from the never-production variation of the 11/74, 
with CIS.
Not just a relabeled/recolored 11/70 panel. Note the additional LEDs on the 
right hand side.

AFAIK no front panel exists that mates with this plexiglass.

I also have a complete DEC DataSystem-570 panel (frame, plex, switches) which is 
just
a standard 11/70 panel, but recolored in light blue / dark  blue / gray color 
scheme.


Don



As an aside thought: I'd love to see a "blue" 11/70 or an 11/74 panel
running with either blue LEDs or white LEDs. That would probably look
very nice… hopefully Rob will do a one of those panels because that
sounds like a fun project.


Cheers,
Christian

Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels - PDP-11

[Rod Smallwood]

On 13/08/2016 19:32, Don North wrote:

On 8/13/2016 6:20 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
On 13 August 2016 at 08:07, Noel Chiappa  
wrote:
I can't recall any other models with front panels? (Well, the /74, 
but IIRC
there are none of those extant outside museums - although people 
might want

some for simulators.)


The whole list of PDP-11 models with any sort of front panel beyond
just an on/off switch is:

11/20 (11/15)
11/05 (11/10)
11/40 (11/35)
11/45 (11/50, 11/55)
11/70 (11/74)
11/34 (11/04, 11/34A) --- "Calculator" style panel (like an 8/A)
11/60 --- "Calculator" style panel.

I've put OEM machines, and machines that are otherwise identical, or
nearly so in parens. The '45 and '50 panels are the same except for
the number, while the '55 panel is painted completely differently. The
same goes for the '70 versus '74 panels: Same indicators and
everything, just completely different paint job.

The panel on the '74 is almost exactly like a standard '70 panel, just
its in "blue" (i.e. like the DECdatasystem-570 that Dave McGuire
owns). Compare:
11/74: 


11/70: 
The only other major difference between the '70 and '74 panels is that
the '74 uses the "chiclet" switches as on the '05/'10 instead of the
"normal" triangular plastic ones you find on a standard '70.

There's also different coloured versions for many of the panels too.
E.g. there's a brown-and-white '70 panel used in OEM typesetting
systems by CSI Systems (if I recall right). There's a blue-and-red '40
panel sold by DEC in their "INDUSTRIAL-11" version. A photo exists
showing an 11/20 and an 8/e in "labratory" green (i.e. the LAB-8/e
colour scheme).


With regards to the 11/74, last I heard there were no machines extant.
Apparently there's an 11/74 panel plexiglass "floating around", but I
don't recall who owns it.


Like this maybe:   http://www.ak6dn.com/stuff/1174.jpg

This is a 'true' 11/74 panel from the never-production variation of 
the 11/74, with CIS.
Not just a relabeled/recolored 11/70 panel. Note the additional LEDs 
on the right hand side.

AFAIK no front panel exists that mates with this plexiglass.

I also have a complete DEC DataSystem-570 panel (frame, plex, 
switches) which is just
a standard 11/70 panel, but recolored in light blue / dark  blue / 
gray color scheme.


Don



As an aside thought: I'd love to see a "blue" 11/70 or an 11/74 panel
running with either blue LEDs or white LEDs. That would probably look
very nice… hopefully Rob will do a one of those panels because that
sounds like a fun project.


Cheers,
Christian





Thank you all very much. I'm collating all of this most useful data.

Regards
Rod (Panelman) Smallwood

Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels - PDP-11

[Christian Gauger-Cosgrove]

On 13 August 2016 at 14:32, Don North  wrote:
> Like this maybe:   http://www.ak6dn.com/stuff/1174.jpg
>
Yes, exactly that one! Based on the rest of your e-mail I'm guessing
it's yours, right? Any chance you could get a higher res scan of it?


> This is a 'true' 11/74 panel from the never-production variation of the
> 11/74, with CIS.
> Not just a relabeled/recolored 11/70 panel. Note the additional LEDs on the
> right hand side.
> AFAIK no front panel exists that mates with this plexiglass.
>
Yeah, I can see that your panel is different from the other 11/74
panel. The 11/74 panel I linked was one of the four CPUs (CPU C as the
green sticker shows, and giant painted "C" indicates) of DEC's DAEMON
system (apparently it might also have been called PHEANX?) quad
processor setup.

More pictures here for people to oggle and drool over:


It looks like your 11/74 panel might have been designed for a mounting
similar to the other 11/74 (we'll call it DAEMON-type) panel mounting
(same visual style and colour scheme) which is distinctly different
from the standard 11/70 mounting (though the DAEMON panels all follow
the same general layout as an 11/70), though the actual mating PCB
would have been different, since the keylock and parity lights have
swapped places and the display indicator LEDs have been re-arranged.


> I also have a complete DEC DataSystem-570 panel (frame, plex, switches)
> which is just
> a standard 11/70 panel, but recolored in light blue / dark  blue / gray
> color scheme.
>
This might or might not be blasphemous to some, but I think the
DDS-570 colour scheme looks much nicer than the standard PDP-11 colour
scheme.


Hmm, now I'm wondering how close of a match the "business system" blue
PDP-11/7x models match up against DEC's other blue coloured systems;
i.e. KL10s of the DECsystem-10xx flavour, PDP-15s, and the alternate
blue-coloured PDP-12
().

Actually speaking of the KL10, I forgot about the fact it's front-end
processor was a PDP-11/40 with an alternate colour scheme panel.


Cheers,
Christian
-- 
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.

Atlanta warehouse

[Electronics Plus]

I can see that one day's notice did not do much good. I am sorry, but
Atlanta is over 1500 miles from home for me, and I usually do not get much
notice. Next time I will try to give at least a week notice.

 

There can be absolutely no viewing on the weekends. That is out of the
question for him.

 

It is MUCH easier for him if I am there when people want to come and
scrounge. He is so busy, and his warehouse manager is usually tied up with
orders, and for safety reasons they can't just turn people loose. I am
usually there every couple of months.

 

Now that we have established that people will be allowed to come and choose
things, he is having the warehouse guys sort things into categories. Things
he wants to keep, and those he is willing to part with. Right now they are
scrapping all the HP 700/96, and the Wyse 60s. I asked him to hold onto a
dozen or so working Wyse 60s with keyboards for about 30 days. He will ship
them. Tested and working with complete tested keyboard he wants $80 per set
plus shipping.

 

The Teletype keyboard and the small keyboard have been sold. The Lear
terminal and the Burroughs are for sale, but not cheap. The Lear has been
repaired and is working. The Burroughs keyboard he wants $250 for. He did
not specify a price for the Lear, but you can always make a good offer.

 

Cindy Croxton

Electronics Plus

500 Pershing Ave.

Kerrville, TX 78028

830-370-3239 cell

sa...@elecplus.com

AOL IM elcpls

 

RE: Atlanta Open House Tomorrow

[Electronics Plus]

There are a couple of 56K-xxx AT&T keyboards there, but I counted, and there 
are only 6 wires in the female connector. There is not a fixed cable.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2016 8:25 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Atlanta Open House Tomorrow

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 8:15 PM, Al Kossow  wrote:
> If anyone goes there would you PLEASE look for a Qume 201 and 
> Televideo 965 keyboard for me

Likewise, I'm looking for a couple of AT&T/Teletype keyboards for my 5620/Blit 
and my 730+.  They do _not_ have a round DIN plug, which distinguishes them 
from 98% of what's out there.  They have an 8p8c connector ("RJ-45").

There are several matching keyboards with different numbers of keys (~98-103).  
56K-341-AAN is one part number.  Keyboards that will work are the same ones 
used on the AT&T 4410 and Teletype 5410 terminal.

I'm also seeing part numbers in the technical drawings 
(http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/att/5620/att5620_eng.pdf
pp 87-95) like:
 56K224
 56K229
 56K230
 410896
 410967

It appears to have 6 of the 8 pins in use - serial in, serial out,
+5V, -12V, signal GND, and frame GND (it makes its own -5V for the MCU
from a zener diode on the -12V line).  All of this plus the 1.8432MHz crystal, 
suggest to me a simple async protocol.  This would make a keyboard emulator 
simple to construct once someone has sniffed the protocol.

One is good.  Two is better.

Thanks,

-ethan

RE: Atlanta Open House Tomorrow

[Electronics Plus]

There are a couple of Qume keyboards there, but I don't know the PN you
need. There is also a Televideo 965 terminal and keyboard.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 7:16 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Atlanta Open House Tomorrow

If anyone goes there would you PLEASE look for a Qume 201 and Televideo 965
keyboard for me

On 8/10/16 4:25 PM, Jay West wrote:
> I'm reposting this because I set the time on the classiccmp server 
> incorrectly (forgot to add 12). Just in case the important post below 
> showed up earlier in folks inbox, I wanted to make sure it showed up.
> 
>  
> 
> I'm posting this on behalf of Cindy at Elecplus
> 
>  
> 
> I can't post to cctalk when I am away from home. I am in Atlanta, and 
> the owner of the warehouse hs agreed to let people come in tomorrow. 
> Please can you post the following for me?
> 
>  
> 
> First come first served, no shipping on the really cheap items. Model 
> M
> 101/103 terminal keyboards $10 each, no cracked cases, may not have 
> complete caps. Hundreds of keyboards for other terminals starting at 
> $30 each, tested and complete. A full pallet of AEK 1 and 2 keyboards
> 
>  
> 
> More expensive items include a Burroughs keyboard, complete and in 
> good condition, a 1978 terminal in working condition, and the 
> following terminals/keyboards, tested, no screen burn, keyboards are 
> complete. DEC
> VT100 (no keyboards), 220, 320, 420.Wyse 50 and 60 with keyboards. 
> Qume 62 and 101+ with keyboards.Link MC2 and 3 with keyboards. ADDS 
> 4000 with keyboards. HP 700/22, 700/43, 700/60, 700/90, 700/92, 
> 700/94, 700/96 with keyboards.
> 
>  
> 
> LOTS of working vintage test equip. Some pics are here:
> 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxqLDyoLYuCKbkEwdmlST2lKaUU
> 
>  
> 
> Thank you!
> 
>  
> 
> Cindy
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 

Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels - PDP-11

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Christian Gauger-Cosgrove

> There's also different coloured versions for many of the panels too.
> ... There's a blue-and-red '40 panel sold by DEC in their
> "INDUSTRIAL-11" version.

Also for the /70; I announced a couple of weeks back that I'd added a scan of
one to my PDP-11 stuff page:

  http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/PDP-11_Stuff.html


> From: Don North north at alum.mit.edu 

> I also have a complete DEC DataSystem-570 panel ... which is just a
> standard 11/70 panel, but recolored in light blue / dark blue / gray
> color scheme.

One of those on that page, too. (Well, the plexiglass part. :-)


> From: Christian Gauger-Cosgrove

> This might or might not be blasphemous to some, but I think the DDS-570
> colour scheme looks much nicer than the standard PDP-11 colour scheme.

I like them both... :-)

> I'm wondering how close of a match the "business system" blue PDP-11/7x
> models match up against DEC's other blue coloured systems; i.e. KL10s
> of the DECsystem-10xx flavour

They are different; the 570 includes a deep blue (a royal/Prussian kind of
blue), and on the KL10 both are lighter.

> it's front-end processor was a PDP-11/40 with an alternate colour
> scheme panel

Actually, that is the only 'front panel' (lights and switches) on the KL10;
the KL10 CPU itself doesn't have one (unlike the KA10 and KI10).

Noel

Kermit version compatibility.

[Charles Anthony]

Multics 12.6 has a Kermit program; the history log in the source indicate
that it written circa 1984 and last modified circa 1990.

My local host runs CKermit 9.0, circa 2015.

They do not play nice; some Kermit protocol change is causing high packet
retry rates, timeouts and sometimes complete confusion.

Going back through the CKermit source archives, I find that once I can get
CKermit 5 to build, it works like a champ.

That isn't a good solution; for e.g. getting V5 to work under OS/X would
probably be a big issue.

CKermit has a ton of SET options; rather then trying them randomly to see
if I can make it compatible, I thought I'd inquire if anyone had the
misfortune to be so well versed in Kermit arcana that they would know what
settings would get CKermit V9 to behave like V5, or at least some ideas on
the best route to pursue.

Thanks,
-- Charles

Re: Intel SDK-85 monitor ROM

[Eric Smith]

I'd like a copy of the SDK-85 ROM also.

Those using an SDK-85 should be aware that there are at least two
different released monitor ROM versions, versions 1.2 and 2.1.  The
RAM usage of the two is different!  I wrote a program based on the
manual for one ROM version, and discovered that it wouldn't work on
the other, because the interrupts are vectored through different RAM
locations. In the later version, the vectors were moved to addresses
six bytes lower than in the earlier version, apparently to make an
additional six bytes of stack space available.

Re: Intel SDK-85 monitor ROM

[Alexis Kotlowy]

On 13/08/2016 20:45, Chris Elmquist wrote:

I believe I can help with this.  Although I do not have a spare
device, I do have the binary as Intel hex as I had the same device
fail on my SDK-85 and went through the exercise replacing it.  I'll
report back off list once I dig up the file.

Chris


Thanks for that. The ROM does the same thing! Ugh. What happens is the
display shows "8 0 ? ?" where '?' is an unknown pattern. My reasoning
behind it was it managed to output '80' then crashed when it went to
print '85'. Maybe the keyboard controller isn't working. Alternatively
the RAM might be bad. Bah. At least I can use my original ROM, maybe.

I wired up a 2732 on the prototype area to test the ROM. I don't have a
programmer for the 8755, but at least I'll be able to write and run a
few tests on it to track down the faulty component.

Cheers,

Alexis.

Re: For trade: beautiful Data General Nova 820 w/ Diablo Drive & controller

[Ian Finder]

Thanks for the mails and interest- a few details:

No, I am not interested in selling. Trades only please, sorry. :(

No, I am not interested in 90s workstation hardware- really looking for
Symbolics hardware, which is my specialty, or other uncommon 80s
workstation hardware.

Thanks!

- Ian

On Friday, August 12, 2016, Ian Finder  wrote:

> I picked this early DG machine up and although it's awesome and complete,
> I just don't think I'll get to restoring it.
>
> I'd like to trade for anything Symbolics, or potentially other very early
> graphical workstation hardware (PERQ, 68K SGI, etc.)
>
> Located in Seattle, but I am no stranger to freight.
>
> This is an early DG jumbo chassis with everything you need, tons of core,
> and the removable pack drive.
>
> Cheers,
>
> - Ian
>
>
> --
>Ian Finder
>(206) 395-MIPS
>ian.fin...@gmail.com
> 
>
>

-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Re: R: HP to acquire SGI

[ben]

On 8/12/2016 9:15 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:

On Fri, 12 Aug 2016, Mazzini Alessandro wrote:

It was not enough to have mishandled vms, and killed palm. Now they
want to destroy also what's left of SGI ?
Better I don't say what I'm really thinking...


"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for men of good conscience to
remain silent."


Apollo, DEC, Compaq, Ericsson, Palm, . . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_acquisitions_by_Hewlett-Packard


If HP and Microsoft merged, would it put an end to computers?


HP-BOX now runs all the games and windows* too. Ben.
* Game of upgrading every 9 months.

Re: For trade: beautiful Data General Nova 820 w/ Diablo Drive & controller

[devin davison]

alright, best of luck in the symbolics hardware search.

--Devin

On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 9:43 PM, Ian Finder  wrote:

> Thanks for the mails and interest- a few details:
>
> No, I am not interested in selling. Trades only please, sorry. :(
>
> No, I am not interested in 90s workstation hardware- really looking for
> Symbolics hardware, which is my specialty, or other uncommon 80s
> workstation hardware.
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Ian
>
> On Friday, August 12, 2016, Ian Finder  wrote:
>
> > I picked this early DG machine up and although it's awesome and complete,
> > I just don't think I'll get to restoring it.
> >
> > I'd like to trade for anything Symbolics, or potentially other very early
> > graphical workstation hardware (PERQ, 68K SGI, etc.)
> >
> > Located in Seattle, but I am no stranger to freight.
> >
> > This is an early DG jumbo chassis with everything you need, tons of core,
> > and the removable pack drive.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > - Ian
> >
> >
> > --
> >Ian Finder
> >(206) 395-MIPS
> >ian.fin...@gmail.com
> > 
> >
> >
>
> --
>Ian Finder
>(206) 395-MIPS
>ian.fin...@gmail.com
>

Re: VAX file format conversion

[Peter Coghlan]

>
> If you are importing files into VMS, you need to become familiar with the
> EXCHANGE command.
> (found via Google) 
> http://h20565.www2.hpe.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=emr_na-c04623262
> It can do stream and carriage control conversions on various RMS fixed 
> formats.
>

I was a bit puzzled by this.  I thought the main use of EXCHANGE was to
to copy files to or from disk or tape volumes which are not in a native
VMS format but are in a format native to some other DEC operating system.

(The url doesn't work for me - I get:

"Hewlett Packard Enterprise Support Center

 The service or information you requested is not available at this time.
 Please try again later.")

>
> When we first brought up DECnet-DOS network file transfer, we had 
> some "discussions" with the VMS RMS
> engineers that didn't like us doing auto conversions.  This was their 
> "compromise".
>

I had a look at the online help for EXCHANGE on VMS and it looks like you
are probably referring to using EXCHANGE with the /NETWORK qualifier.  I
can see how something like that would be needed in the case of DECnet-DOS
because there is no direct mapping that can be assumed between the types
of files you get on DOS and the types of files you get on VMS which will
work for every purpose in every case.

My guess is that you felt you could come with an automatic conversion
process that worked almost all of the time but the VMS people weren't
happy with that?

EXCHANGE /NETWORK does look like a bit of a kludge which could have been
made more user friendly but I find it hard to see how something like it
could be avoided altogether given the differences between the two
filesystems.

I have managed to get though a couple of decades of use of VMS without
ever having to resort to EXCHANGE /NETWORK, getting by instead using
the abilities of various file transfer utilites, archiving products
and networking packages to allow the user to specify either "text" or
"binary" files and in rare cases, making adjustments with
SET FILE /ATTRIBUTES or even more rarely, CONVERT.

>
> Oh and if you are doing serial transfers, yes, keeping the baud rate 
> low is a good strategy.
> I had to spend some time working on the DECnet-DOS DDCMP driver 
> developing better character overrun recovery strategies. Yes, you may 
> be coming in via a terminal line, but that line can hiccup from time to time.
>

Additionally, I would suggest using any terminal line other than the
console line (OPA0:) to do any sort of serial file transfers, even for
cutting and pasting groups of lines into a terminal emulator running in
a window on some other system.  It is very easy to overrun the console
and to end up getting it hung requiring a reboot or even a poweroff to
clear it.  I suspect there is no flow control at all on the console
terminal line and error recover is poorer than on ordinary terminal lines.

If you can only log in on the console due to lack of licensing, I would
suggest manually typing in just the VAX-VMS hobbyist license (and maybe a
license for a networking product) on the console, then logging on using
another terminal or over the network to transfer the other licenses.

If you can't avoid cutting and pasting into a terminal emulator attached
to the console line, do no more than groups of one or two lines at a time.

> Dave.

>
> On 8/12/2016 01:00 PM, cctech-requ...@classiccmp.org wrote:
> >Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 16:08:39 -0400
> >From: Douglas Taylor 
> >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> > 
> >Subject: VAX file format conversion
> >Message-ID: 
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >
> >I have a MicroVax 4000 that I am trying to update the license PAKs on,
> >the last time I had valid PAKs on this machine was in 2002 (Hobbyist
> >Licenses).
> >
> >I registered and have received the new Hobbyist License PAKs.
> >
> >I connected a laptop and transferred the text file using C-Kermit on the
> >VAX and hyperterminal on the laptop.
> >
> >When I go to execute the file, I get an error:
> >
> >$@hobbyist-use-only-va.txt
> >
> >%RMS-W-RTB 512 bye record to large for user buffer
> >
> >It appears that when the file was transferred it showed up on the vax
> >with fixed length records of 512 bytes, not variable length.
> >
> >Can I convert the file on the VAX?
> >

Possibly but what you need to do depends on how exactly the file contents
ended up and what the file attributes are.  My guess would be something
like:

$ SET FILE /ATTRIBUTES=(RFM=STM,RAT=CR) filename

This assumes that the file contents are text with a CR and LF at the end
of each line and it can be made legible to VMS by changing the file
attributes from fixed length 512 byte records with no carriage control to
stream format records with CR-LF record terminations and carriage return
carriage control.

(This command only works on versions of VMS later than about 6.something.
If you have a very old version of VAX/VMS like V5.5-2, it is not available)


> >

Re: Flex Disc options for the HP 9825

[Paul Berger]

I wonder if the crowbars might have been a later revision of of the 
power supply.  After the accident with my 9835A I had to completely 
rebuild the +12V regulator both the 723 and the pass transistor as well 
as a few passive components.  I did not see any evidence of crowbars, 
and  the power supply in my 9835A seems to match the diagram in the 9835 
service guide.  If I was to add crowbars to this power supply I would be 
temped to monitor the voltages and crowbar the raw DC when an 
overvoltage is detected, in my case it was the -20V raw that did all of 
the damage.


Paul.

On 2016-08-13 6:37 AM, Rik Bos wrote:

For what it's worth a small warning about the HP 9825 series computers.
The power supply doesn't have a crowbar(over voltage protection), so a
transistor failure in the Psu can be catastrophic.
On the other hand the two 9835's I have, which uses the same form factor and
almost the same power supply layout are HP modified with crowbars added.
It seems to be good practice to add some ov-protection to the HP 9825 supply
because the switching transistor and 723 voltage regulators don't have the
eternal life.
And there no certain prediction in how they fail, short or open circuit, I
found out the hard way several years ago.

-Rik

RE: Flex Disc options for the HP 9825

[Rik Bos]

Marc,

Building a crowbar is easy, just take a Zener a little higher than the psu
voltage eg 5.2V for 5V rail put a resistor of 1k in series take a Thyristor
big enough to take about 150% of the schort current and connect it to the
zener through a small resistor. I suppose you can do the math  ;) 
Be sure to put a crowbar on both the +12V and +5V and you could consider one
on the -12V rail but that voltage doesn't have a pass transistor but a 320K
voltage regulator which has a reasonable protection for over voltage.
The -5V is connected to the -12V through a zener.
Tony reverse engineered the schematics, you can download them a the HP
Museum website or become a member of the HPCC and order the CD with all
Tony's diagrams (a lot of eexcellent work).

-Rik

> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> Van: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] Namens
> curiousma...@gmail.com
> Verzonden: zaterdag 13 augustus 2016 12:15
> Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts
> Onderwerp: Re: Flex Disc options for the HP 9825
> 
> Thanks for the info. Any schematics of the modification?
> Marc
> 
> 
> > On Aug 13, 2016, at 2:37 AM, Rik Bos  wrote:
> >
> >
> > For what it's worth a small warning about the HP 9825 series computers.
> > The power supply doesn't have a crowbar(over voltage protection), so a
> > transistor failure in the Psu can be catastrophic.
> > On the other hand the two 9835's I have, which uses the same form
> > factor and almost the same power supply layout are HP modified with
> crowbars added.
> > It seems to be good practice to add some ov-protection to the HP 9825
> > supply because the switching transistor and 723 voltage regulators
> > don't have the eternal life.
> > And there no certain prediction in how they fail, short or open
> > circuit, I found out the hard way several years ago.
> >
> > -Rik
> >

Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels - PDP-11

[Ian Finder]

Registering interest for 11/40! Also, one comment after playing with my
panels...

We should laquer the back of them to prevent the black back-coating from
scratching off...

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 1:49 AM, Rod Smallwood <
rodsmallwoo...@btinternet.com> wrote:

> Hi Guys
>
> Well my panels made to VCF. I have had some feedback and I
> expect more.
>
> Currently I have stock of PDP-8/e (Types A and B) , PDP-8/f and PDP-8/m.
>
> PDP-8/i should be out of manufacturing by now. Next up is PDP-8/L.
>
>  -++ Order the above now ++
>
> Due to our house remodeling and holidays at the silk screen studio it was
> quiet up until this week..
>
> However now things have started up again. I'm about to revisit the PDP-8
> bezel project.
>
> The prototype had a few issues but nothing major. I should have a painted
> example shortly.
>
> Once the PDP-8/L batch are safely in the stock room it will be time to
> start on PDP-11 panels.
>
> +++  Please register interest in bezels and PDP-11
> panels 
>
> Rod (Panelman) Smallwood
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
   Ian Finder
   (206) 395-MIPS
   ian.fin...@gmail.com

Re: Front Panel - Update. - PDP=8/i and PDP-8/l - Bezels - PDP-11

[Kirk Davis]

Also registering interest in 11 panels also. 11/45 would be my first choice 
followed by ’70, ’40 & ‘20


> On Aug 13, 2016, at 10:57 PM, Ian Finder  wrote:
> 
> Registering interest for 11/40! Also, one comment after playing with my
> panels...
> 
> We should laquer the back of them to prevent the black back-coating from
> scratching off...
> 
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 1:49 AM, Rod Smallwood <
> rodsmallwoo...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Guys
>> 
>>Well my panels made to VCF. I have had some feedback and I
>> expect more.
>> 
>> Currently I have stock of PDP-8/e (Types A and B) , PDP-8/f and PDP-8/m.
>> 
>> PDP-8/i should be out of manufacturing by now. Next up is PDP-8/L.
>> 
>> -++ Order the above now ++
>> 
>> Due to our house remodeling and holidays at the silk screen studio it was
>> quiet up until this week..
>> 
>> However now things have started up again. I'm about to revisit the PDP-8
>> bezel project.
>> 
>> The prototype had a few issues but nothing major. I should have a painted
>> example shortly.
>> 
>> Once the PDP-8/L batch are safely in the stock room it will be time to
>> start on PDP-11 panels.
>> 
>> +++  Please register interest in bezels and PDP-11
>> panels 
>> 
>> Rod (Panelman) Smallwood
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
>   Ian Finder
>   (206) 395-MIPS
>   ian.fin...@gmail.com