Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Huw Davies]

> On 30 Dec 2015, at 11:58, Ian S. King  wrote:

> But it is intriguing to see the computer as pop-culture artifact within a
> broader grouping of like artifacts.  (You're welcome, Jay.) In my academic
> work, I use the term 'consumer computer' rather than 'personal computer'
> because the latter term is so overloaded and controversial.  

Great terminology. Can I have permission to use it too :-)

> I do have to say, though, that in the '80s many if not most phones had
> transitioned to touch-tone 'dialing' (what a delightfully archaic term!).
> Nit picked.  — Ian

Not in Australia where the article was written. Government regulations meant 
that phones still had dials and modems were both hard to get and very expensive.

Huw Davies   | e-mail: huw.dav...@kerberos.davies.net.au
Melbourne| "If soccer was meant to be played in the
Australia| air, the sky would be painted green" 

RE: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[tony duell]

> 
> I do have to say, though, that in the '80s many if not most phones had
> transitioned to touch-tone 'dialing' (what a delightfully archaic term!).

Not as archaic as 'to ring off' (which dates back to magneto-ringing telephones
where you gave the magneto a little crank at the end of the call to indicate to
the operator to disconnect you) or 'to hang up' which refers to the wall and
candlestick telephones with a receiver hanging on the hookswtich on the side.

Both those terms are in common use in the UK.

-tony

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Todd Goodman]

* Jules Richardson  [151229 14:05]:
> On 12/29/2015 03:03 AM, Kevin Parker wrote:
> > May be of interest to some list members - appeared, of all places, in the
> > property section of a local newspaper - the Commodore 64 gets a good mention
> 
> But it's one of those new-fangled C64s, not the breadbin variety :(
> 
> I've wondered occasionally what happened to ghetto blasters - despite 
> finding other audio equipment of the time every once in a while, I don't 
> think I've seen one anywhere in over 25 years. Were they exceptionally 
> fragile or something, and so they all got tossed long ago instead of 
> finding their way into attics and garages like everything else?
> 
> cheers
> 
> Jules

Well, I used mine as a target.

Todd

Re: IDE knowledge anyone?

[Oliver Lehmann]

OK, I just got my Logic Analysator and traced the
communication on my PC while forcing it to do PIO
instead of DMA.
I then changed my AVR code to do the exact same
commands and nearly the same timings and... nothing
changed - the drive still responds with error code
0x04 after the read sector 0x20 command is issued.

On the PC:
I noticed a time frame of 115,230ns between the
0x20 Command and the first alternate status register
read. during that time, INTRQ goes high so the drive
"is done" and wants the host to interact with it
again. IORDY is the whole time high from the host.
The status read is 0x58 on the PC.

On the AVR:
IORDY is the whole time low (it is not connected),
INTRQ stays low the whole time, and the first status
read back is 0xD0 for a long time and then it goes to
0xD1 and then 0x59.

Things I plan to try next:

- power down the drive on the pc, power it up and then
  try to access sector 1 again and see what happens.
  Maybe some magic "initialization" is done on bootup
  what I don't do.
- make IORDY high on my AVR too

Re: IDE knowledge anyone?

[Oliver Lehmann]

OK,

detatching the power cord of the disk from my PC while
running FreeBSD and reattaching it also brings up error
code 4 on the next access. This does not happen with
other drives. So it must be some sort of initialisation
the OS or BIOS does which readies up the drive.


Oliver Lehmann  wrote:


OK, I just got my Logic Analysator and traced the
communication on my PC while forcing it to do PIO
instead of DMA.
I then changed my AVR code to do the exact same
commands and nearly the same timings and... nothing
changed - the drive still responds with error code
0x04 after the read sector 0x20 command is issued.

On the PC:
I noticed a time frame of 115,230ns between the
0x20 Command and the first alternate status register
read. during that time, INTRQ goes high so the drive
"is done" and wants the host to interact with it
again. IORDY is the whole time high from the host.
The status read is 0x58 on the PC.

On the AVR:
IORDY is the whole time low (it is not connected),
INTRQ stays low the whole time, and the first status
read back is 0xD0 for a long time and then it goes to
0xD1 and then 0x59.

Things I plan to try next:

- power down the drive on the pc, power it up and then
  try to access sector 1 again and see what happens.
  Maybe some magic "initialization" is done on bootup
  what I don't do.
- make IORDY high on my AVR too

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Ian S. King]

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 4:46 AM, Huw Davies <
huw.dav...@kerberos.davies.net.au> wrote:

>
> > On 30 Dec 2015, at 11:58, Ian S. King  wrote:
>
> > But it is intriguing to see the computer as pop-culture artifact within a
> > broader grouping of like artifacts.  (You're welcome, Jay.) In my
> academic
> > work, I use the term 'consumer computer' rather than 'personal computer'
> > because the latter term is so overloaded and controversial.
>
> Great terminology. Can I have permission to use it too :-)
>

Citation is the sincerest compliment.  :-)

>
> > I do have to say, though, that in the '80s many if not most phones had
> > transitioned to touch-tone 'dialing' (what a delightfully archaic term!).
> > Nit picked.  — Ian
>
> Not in Australia where the article was written. Government regulations
> meant that phones still had dials and modems were both hard to get and very
> expensive.
>
>
> Ah, good point.  And to hie back to an earlier part of the thread, when I
worked for Pacific Telecom in the early 1990s, there was still a crossbar
exchange in Forks, Washington.  Also in the PTI world was a very modern ESS
(the model escapes me) that replaced an old system that could not keep up
with regional growth.  As a result, the rather small town of Kalispell,
Montana enjoyed high-speed data services superior to anything I could get
in the Portland/Vancouver area!



-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Paul Koning]

> On Dec 30, 2015, at 11:41 AM, Ian S. King  wrote:
> 
>> ...
>> Great terminology. Can I have permission to use it too :-)
>> 
> 
> Citation is the sincerest compliment.  :-)

Then again, as Robert A. Heinlein put it, "The sincerest form of praise starts 
with the phrase 'Pay to the order of...'."

paul

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Ian S. King]

Bob wasn't an academic - but that's not to say he wasn't right.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Paul Koning  wrote:

>
> > On Dec 30, 2015, at 11:41 AM, Ian S. King  wrote:
> >
> >> ...
> >> Great terminology. Can I have permission to use it too :-)
> >>
> >
> > Citation is the sincerest compliment.  :-)
>
> Then again, as Robert A. Heinlein put it, "The sincerest form of praise
> starts with the phrase 'Pay to the order of...'."
>
> paul
>
>


-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Chuck Guzis]

On 12/29/2015 11:24 PM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:


The direct successor to the 4/4AXB was the 4ESS/4AESS. (Meanwhile the
successor to the local crossbar offices was 1ESS/1AESS; save for the
weird 3XB which was replaced by the small 3ESS.) And of course both
local and toll ESS have been replaced by the 5ESS.


I'll defer to the experts; all this clicky-clicky stuff with "we don't 
offer that feature" are very old memories.


Evolution of the telco networks has been interesting.   I remember that 
my grandmother had a 2-digit phone number and the linemen who worked for 
the local telephone outfit also repaired radios on the side (She had a 
big Zenith with the auto-station seeking gizmo in her parlor).


At the same time, our family's phone number sticks in my mind: Sheffield 
2118-W (we were on a party line).  When we purchased our current home 
(with some acreage), there was an easement through the land documented 
from 1927--you still can find buried glass insulators and bits of iron 
hardware in the soil here and there.  It was replaced at some point by a 
buried pair of coaxial lines (the test points still exist).  When I was 
doing some excavation, I called in the line-mapping service who verified 
that the stuff was dead.  There are still warning signs with a "Call 
ENTerpirse  and ask for Operator 7 before digging" legend--some of 
the signs have been overgrown with the wood of trees that they were 
attached to.  Great fun.  No one seems to know when the line was abandoned.


Now, the buried copper that serviced our telephones on this road is 
being replaced by fiber hung on the existing electrical utility poles 
because the buried cable is apparently sliding down the hill and would 
be very expensive to replace with like copper.  I have a bunch of boxes 
sitting on a concrete pad on my property that connects the existing 
buried local copper with the fiber--I got to see what an 1800-pair 
copper cable looks like.


I read an article recently that in the US, only 8 percent of the 
population relies on POTS exclusively.  Currently, I'm waiting for more 
upstream capacity before I can get 20Mbps  DSL--right now, I'm existing 
on 1.5Mbps, but the local telco did send me a VDSL2 modem free of 
charge.   When that happens, I'm dropping POTS service as it's just not 
worth the monthly fees and taxes.  Dry loop after that.


All of this has me wondering how long it's going to be before POTS 
completely disappears from the infrastructure.  I've been experimenting 
with one of the Obihai VoIP boxes and have been pleasantly surprised at 
the quality.  I haven't tried yet to see if the 554 rotary dial wall 
phones in my garage and shop will still work.  They were installed in 
1980--so that ties this in with the subject material.


I will say this--that the personal service that I received in the 1980s 
and early 90s was amazing.  Nothing like what it is now, which can 
involve waiting on hold for an hour before talking with a remote voice a 
thousand miles away who has no clue as to what's going on.


Life in the boonies 12 wire miles from the CO...

--Chuck

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Mouse]

> All of this has me wondering how long it's going to be before POTS
> completely disappears from the infrastructure.

Completely?  I expect that to be a fairly long time - decades, at
least.

> I've been experimenting with one of the Obihai VoIP boxes and have
> been pleasantly surprised at the quality.

Most of my phone service is VoI (everything but my cell).

My opinion: the major upsides are cost and flexibility; the major
downsides are (a) the quality and security implications of using the
open Internet and (b) additional points of failure, many of which
usually don't have anything like three nines of reliability.

In my case the cost and flexibility benefits are enhanced because I am
the primary geek behind the system my phones connect to - I work for
that provider.  But even if I had to set up a tiny little PBX and pay
normal uplink rates it'd still be cheaper and more flexible than POTS.

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
 X  Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email!   7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Guy Sotomayor]

On 12/30/15 10:12 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote:


I read an article recently that in the US, only 8 percent of the 
population relies on POTS exclusively.  Currently, I'm waiting for 
more upstream capacity before I can get 20Mbps  DSL--right now, I'm 
existing on 1.5Mbps, but the local telco did send me a VDSL2 modem 
free of charge.   When that happens, I'm dropping POTS service as it's 
just not worth the monthly fees and taxes.  Dry loop after that.


All of this has me wondering how long it's going to be before POTS 
completely disappears from the infrastructure.  I've been 
experimenting with one of the Obihai VoIP boxes and have been 
pleasantly surprised at the quality.  I haven't tried yet to see if 
the 554 rotary dial wall phones in my garage and shop will still 
work.  They were installed in 1980--so that ties this in with the 
subject material.


We just dropped our POTS service last month.  Our phone now is an OOMA 
VoIP Office system to get the features we wanted/needed.  I haven't 
tried any rotary dial phones on it since I don't have any.


Where I'm at, I can't get DSL.  Right now I'm dependent upon a dedicated 
microwave link to my iSP.  I'm getting between 20-35Mb/s symmetric (used 
to be 10Mb/s but it looks like they upgraded the link recently).  I'm 
paying $$$'s but since I work from home I need the bandwidth (I'm 
currently using about 800GB/mo).  I had to put in a point-to-point WiFi 
link to get internet to the house from my shop (where the microwave dish 
is).


TTFN - Guy

Re: Available: various PSION organizers, parts, and documentation from the mid-80s

[Liam Proven]

On 22 December 2015 at 05:03, steven stengel  wrote:
> I have boxes full of like-new PSION II organizers that I recently received 
> from a US distributed.
>
> These aren't rare or valuable, but they are new in the box and seemingly 
> never used.
>
> There are different models, with both 2 and 4 line displays, and different 
> amounts of memory.
>
>
> I also have memory modules, cables, and development documentation.
>
> There's also a PSION module duplicactor.
>
>
> If any of this interests anyone, let me know.

Wow!

Do you have any LZ64 or plain ol' LZ models?

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)

Re: Remember the old "Choose your own adventure books" By D & D! ! !

[Liam Proven]

On 21 December 2015 at 13:46, Mike  wrote:
> Has any of you took one of them old choose your own adventurer books and
> coded it into a text RPG in basic?


Blimey, yes, I have -- but in about 1983!

Even then, given my very meagre programming ability, I found it a dull
project. The simplistic way of doing it was a lot of GOTOs -- which is
basically what the book is -- and the proper way, with a database of
text and jumps, was tedious.

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)

Re: IDE knowledge anyone?

[Oliver Lehmann]

I checked now with MS-DOS and issuing a simple "DIR D:\" command with  
a power cycled disk:


Command: C4h (Read Multiple)
-> 51h, 51h -> 04h

Command: 10h (Obsolete???)
-> 50h, 50h -> 04h

Command: 91h (Initialize Drive Parameters)
-> d0h, d0h, d0h,  50h

Command: C6h (Set Multiple Mode)
-> 50h

Command: C4h (Read Multiple)
-> 58h

The first C4h Command returns the same error, but
after this it seems like the drive is "initialized"
and then the 2nd C4 command afterwards works! Great.
I guess C6h is only needed because read multiple is
used, so I probably have to do only the 10h and
91h stuff... just need to find out more about it.

Does anyone know what command 10h is? The documentation
I have only states "obsolete".


Oliver Lehmann  wrote:


OK,

detatching the power cord of the disk from my PC while
running FreeBSD and reattaching it also brings up error
code 4 on the next access. This does not happen with
other drives. So it must be some sort of initialisation
the OS or BIOS does which readies up the drive.


Oliver Lehmann  wrote:


OK, I just got my Logic Analysator and traced the
communication on my PC while forcing it to do PIO
instead of DMA.
I then changed my AVR code to do the exact same
commands and nearly the same timings and... nothing
changed - the drive still responds with error code
0x04 after the read sector 0x20 command is issued.

On the PC:
I noticed a time frame of 115,230ns between the
0x20 Command and the first alternate status register
read. during that time, INTRQ goes high so the drive
"is done" and wants the host to interact with it
again. IORDY is the whole time high from the host.
The status read is 0x58 on the PC.

On the AVR:
IORDY is the whole time low (it is not connected),
INTRQ stays low the whole time, and the first status
read back is 0xD0 for a long time and then it goes to
0xD1 and then 0x59.

Things I plan to try next:

- power down the drive on the pc, power it up and then
 try to access sector 1 again and see what happens.
 Maybe some magic "initialization" is done on bootup
 what I don't do.
- make IORDY high on my AVR too

Re: IDE knowledge anyone?

[Paul Berger]

On 2015-12-30 3:01 PM, Oliver Lehmann wrote:
I checked now with MS-DOS and issuing a simple "DIR D:\" command with 
a power cycled disk:


Command: C4h (Read Multiple)
-> 51h, 51h -> 04h

Command: 10h (Obsolete???)
-> 50h, 50h -> 04h

Command: 91h (Initialize Drive Parameters)
-> d0h, d0h, d0h,  50h

Command: C6h (Set Multiple Mode)
-> 50h

Command: C4h (Read Multiple)
-> 58h

The first C4h Command returns the same error, but
after this it seems like the drive is "initialized"
and then the 2nd C4 command afterwards works! Great.
I guess C6h is only needed because read multiple is
used, so I probably have to do only the 10h and
91h stuff... just need to find out more about it.

Does anyone know what command 10h is? The documentation
I have only states "obsolete".


Oliver Lehmann  wrote:


OK,

detatching the power cord of the disk from my PC while
running FreeBSD and reattaching it also brings up error
code 4 on the next access. This does not happen with
other drives. So it must be some sort of initialisation
the OS or BIOS does which readies up the drive.


Oliver Lehmann  wrote:


OK, I just got my Logic Analysator and traced the
communication on my PC while forcing it to do PIO
instead of DMA.
I then changed my AVR code to do the exact same
commands and nearly the same timings and... nothing
changed - the drive still responds with error code
0x04 after the read sector 0x20 command is issued.

On the PC:
I noticed a time frame of 115,230ns between the
0x20 Command and the first alternate status register
read. during that time, INTRQ goes high so the drive
"is done" and wants the host to interact with it
again. IORDY is the whole time high from the host.
The status read is 0x58 on the PC.

On the AVR:
IORDY is the whole time low (it is not connected),
INTRQ stays low the whole time, and the first status
read back is 0xD0 for a long time and then it goes to
0xD1 and then 0x59.

Things I plan to try next:

- power down the drive on the pc, power it up and then
 try to access sector 1 again and see what happens.
 Maybe some magic "initialization" is done on bootup
 what I don't do.
- make IORDY high on my AVR too



According to my book "The SCSI Bus and IDE Interfaces Protocols, 
Applications and Programming"  0x10 to 0x1F are "Recalibrate"  "All 
opcodes between 10h and 1Fh are interpreted as a RECALIBRATE command, 
whereupon the disk drive seeks track 0.  If it is not found, TK0NF will 
be set in the error register.  RECALIBRATE is often used when trying to 
recover from an error situation.  For example when a sector cannot be 
found, a RECALIBRATE should be tried.  If this works, a sector access 
can be tried again. Otherwise, it is a fatal disk error."


Paul.

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Jim Brain]

On 12/30/2015 12:12 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:




All of this has me wondering how long it's going to be before POTS 
completely disappears from the infrastructure.  I've been 
experimenting with one of the Obihai VoIP boxes and have been 
pleasantly surprised at the quality.  I haven't tried yet to see if 
the 554 rotary dial wall phones in my garage and shop will still 
work.  They were installed in 1980--so that ties this in with the 
subject material.

I am not worthy of this conversation, but I will put in what little I can.

We were spoiled in South Dakota, as somehow (and I am sure someone knows 
and will enlighten us/me) the rural telcos (LECs?)  tapped into lots of 
funds from somewhere to drop fiber to all of the rural homes.  50Mb was 
the slowest speed, as I recall, for data.  The catch was that you had to 
buy a telephone service with your Internet, probably for some 
legal/regulatory reason.  But, it was cheap, and we bought just the 
basics, and 50Mb was more than one could expect when you are 8 miles 
from the nearest town and on a large acreage.  So, in markets where this 
type of service is offered, I think telcos will thrive.


When we moved to Iowa, we found a choice large acreage just minutes from 
the edge of town, but POTS service was so expensive compared to our SD 
options.  We went with office grade cellular Internet (unlimited 4G) and 
I bought one of those Internet to phone dongles for pennies online.  In 
a small twist, though, I disconnected our house telephone wiring from 
the telco and simply plugged the dongle into our house telephone 
wiring.  Now, we have all the phones in the house connected to phone 
service through our cellular connection.


I am sure it is not that original, but my touch phones don't know the 
difference (like you, I have not tried my rotary with the extra long 
cord), and it is $10.00/year versus $35.00/month for POTS.


Jim






--
Jim Brain
br...@jbrain.com
www.jbrain.com

Re: IDE knowledge anyone?

[Chuck Guzis]

On 12/30/2015 11:01 AM, Oliver Lehmann wrote:


Does anyone know what command 10h is? The documentation I have only
states "obsolete".


Command 1x is "recalibrate".  The "x" used to be the stepping rate, but 
is ignored on most later drives.


--Chuck

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Mike Stein]

- Original Message - 
From: "Jim Brain" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 2:24 PM

> I am sure it is not that original, but my touch phones don't know the 
> difference (like you, I have not tried my rotary with the extra long 
> cord), and it is $10.00/year versus $35.00/month for POTS.
> 
> Jim

Interesting; what exactly are you paying that $10.00 for?

m

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Jim Brain]

On 12/30/2015 1:49 PM, Mike Stein wrote:

- Original Message -
From: "Jim Brain" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 2:24 PM


I am sure it is not that original, but my touch phones don't know the
difference (like you, I have not tried my rotary with the extra long
cord), and it is $10.00/year versus $35.00/month for POTS.

Jim

Interesting; what exactly are you paying that $10.00 for?

m

Egad, I goofed.  Thought it was $10.00/year, but it's $40.00/year.

Still, much cheaper than local telco.

 * free US and Canada long distance
 * free local calls
 * voicemail (drops links with speech into email to us)
 * Caller ID
 * 3 Way
 * 411
 * e911

We also have cell phones, if we want to do non US/Canada calling, etc.  
Or, I can skype.




--
Jim Brain
br...@jbrain.com
www.jbrain.com

Re: IDE knowledge anyone?

[Oliver Lehmann]

Command 91h did the trick. Issueing this once before any
read/write commands makes the drive finally work!


Oliver Lehmann  wrote:

I checked now with MS-DOS and issuing a simple "DIR D:\" command  
with a power cycled disk:


Command: C4h (Read Multiple)
-> 51h, 51h -> 04h

Command: 10h (Obsolete???)
-> 50h, 50h -> 04h

Command: 91h (Initialize Drive Parameters)
-> d0h, d0h, d0h,  50h

Command: C6h (Set Multiple Mode)
-> 50h

Command: C4h (Read Multiple)
-> 58h

The first C4h Command returns the same error, but
after this it seems like the drive is "initialized"
and then the 2nd C4 command afterwards works! Great.
I guess C6h is only needed because read multiple is
used, so I probably have to do only the 10h and
91h stuff... just need to find out more about it.

Does anyone know what command 10h is? The documentation
I have only states "obsolete".


Oliver Lehmann  wrote:


OK,

detatching the power cord of the disk from my PC while
running FreeBSD and reattaching it also brings up error
code 4 on the next access. This does not happen with
other drives. So it must be some sort of initialisation
the OS or BIOS does which readies up the drive.


Oliver Lehmann  wrote:


OK, I just got my Logic Analysator and traced the
communication on my PC while forcing it to do PIO
instead of DMA.
I then changed my AVR code to do the exact same
commands and nearly the same timings and... nothing
changed - the drive still responds with error code
0x04 after the read sector 0x20 command is issued.

On the PC:
I noticed a time frame of 115,230ns between the
0x20 Command and the first alternate status register
read. during that time, INTRQ goes high so the drive
"is done" and wants the host to interact with it
again. IORDY is the whole time high from the host.
The status read is 0x58 on the PC.

On the AVR:
IORDY is the whole time low (it is not connected),
INTRQ stays low the whole time, and the first status
read back is 0xD0 for a long time and then it goes to
0xD1 and then 0x59.

Things I plan to try next:

- power down the drive on the pc, power it up and then
try to access sector 1 again and see what happens.
Maybe some magic "initialization" is done on bootup
what I don't do.
- make IORDY high on my AVR too

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Geoffrey Oltmans]

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 1:24 PM, Jim Brain  wrote:

>
> We were spoiled in South Dakota, as somehow (and I am sure someone knows
> and will enlighten us/me) the rural telcos (LECs?)  tapped into lots of
> funds from somewhere to drop fiber to all of the rural homes.  50Mb was the
> slowest speed, as I recall, for data.  The catch was that you had to buy a
> telephone service with your Internet, probably for some legal/regulatory
> reason.  But, it was cheap, and we bought just the basics, and 50Mb was
> more than one could expect when you are 8 miles from the nearest town and
> on a large acreage.  So, in markets where this type of service is offered,
> I think telcos will thrive.
>

Probably the FCC's Connect America Fund. This is meant to do for broadband
what the REA did for electrical power.

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Chuck Guzis]

On 12/30/2015 11:59 AM, Geoffrey Oltmans wrote:

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 1:24 PM, Jim Brain  wrote:



We were spoiled in South Dakota, as somehow (and I am sure someone
knows and will enlighten us/me) the rural telcos (LECs?)  tapped
into lots of funds from somewhere to drop fiber to all of the rural
homes.  50Mb was the slowest speed, as I recall, for data.  The
catch was that you had to buy a telephone service with your
Internet, probably for some legal/regulatory reason.  But, it was
cheap, and we bought just the basics, and 50Mb was more than one
could expect when you are 8 miles from the nearest town and on a
large acreage.  So, in markets where this type of service is
offered, I think telcos will thrive.



Probably the FCC's Connect America Fund. This is meant to do for
broadband what the REA did for electrical power.


Probably because we're served here by one of the big outfits 
(CenturyLink), that sort of money isn't available for us.  So we rural 
folk still suffer--because it doesn't pay to deploy service to 
low-density areas.


It really is amazing that I've been living with internet service that 
wouldn't even tax a 10base2 "thinnet" LAN connection.  In the meantime, 
CL still pays an annual dividend of something like 8% to its stockholders.


--Chuck

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Geoffrey Oltmans]

It doesn't much matter who the telco is for CAF money to be awarded... you
can see who has been awarded what money on the FCC's website, and
CenturyLink has definitely gotten a large sum for it ($500M/yr for 6 years).

Here's a press release on Clink's own website:
http://news.centurylink.com/news/centurylink-to-bring-broadband-to-1-2-million-rural-households-in-33-states

Poke around on FCC for CAF and you're sure to find deployment maps.It is a
sizable chunk of money up for grabs.





On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 3:02 PM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:

> On 12/30/2015 11:59 AM, Geoffrey Oltmans wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 1:24 PM, Jim Brain  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> We were spoiled in South Dakota, as somehow (and I am sure someone
>>> knows and will enlighten us/me) the rural telcos (LECs?)  tapped
>>> into lots of funds from somewhere to drop fiber to all of the rural
>>> homes.  50Mb was the slowest speed, as I recall, for data.  The
>>> catch was that you had to buy a telephone service with your
>>> Internet, probably for some legal/regulatory reason.  But, it was
>>> cheap, and we bought just the basics, and 50Mb was more than one
>>> could expect when you are 8 miles from the nearest town and on a
>>> large acreage.  So, in markets where this type of service is
>>> offered, I think telcos will thrive.
>>>
>>>
>> Probably the FCC's Connect America Fund. This is meant to do for
>> broadband what the REA did for electrical power.
>>
>
> Probably because we're served here by one of the big outfits
> (CenturyLink), that sort of money isn't available for us.  So we rural folk
> still suffer--because it doesn't pay to deploy service to low-density areas.
>
> It really is amazing that I've been living with internet service that
> wouldn't even tax a 10base2 "thinnet" LAN connection.  In the meantime, CL
> still pays an annual dividend of something like 8% to its stockholders.
>
> --Chuck
>

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Chuck Guzis]

Speaking of 1980s/90s, are telcos pretty much the only ones using ATM 
nowadays?


--Chuck

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Chuck Guzis]

On 12/30/2015 02:06 PM, Geoffrey Oltmans wrote:

It doesn't much matter who the telco is for CAF money to be
awarded... you can see who has been awarded what money on the FCC's
website, and CenturyLink has definitely gotten a large sum for it
($500M/yr for 6 years).

Here's a press release on Clink's own website:
http://news.centurylink.com/news/centurylink-to-bring-broadband-to-1-2-million-rural-households-in-33-states

 Poke around on FCC for CAF and you're sure to find deployment
maps.It is a sizable chunk of money up for grabs.


Well, given the date of the press release, maybe there's hope for me 
yet.Thanks for the information--it'll give me some basis for 
complaining.  At least on DSLreports, CL doesn't exactly get glowing 
ratings for service.


--Chuck

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Ian S. King]

I've had CL in Seattle for years with minimal disruptions.  Nothing
compared to my friends/colleagues with ComCrap.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:

> On 12/30/2015 02:06 PM, Geoffrey Oltmans wrote:
>
>> It doesn't much matter who the telco is for CAF money to be
>> awarded... you can see who has been awarded what money on the FCC's
>> website, and CenturyLink has definitely gotten a large sum for it
>> ($500M/yr for 6 years).
>>
>> Here's a press release on Clink's own website:
>>
>> http://news.centurylink.com/news/centurylink-to-bring-broadband-to-1-2-million-rural-households-in-33-states
>>
>>  Poke around on FCC for CAF and you're sure to find deployment
>> maps.It is a sizable chunk of money up for grabs.
>>
>
> Well, given the date of the press release, maybe there's hope for me yet.
>   Thanks for the information--it'll give me some basis for complaining.  At
> least on DSLreports, CL doesn't exactly get glowing ratings for service.
>
> --Chuck
>
>


-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Geoffrey Oltmans]

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 4:40 PM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:

> Speaking of 1980s/90s, are telcos pretty much the only ones using ATM
> nowadays?
>
> --Chuck
>
>

I can't speak for the whole Telco segment, but I work on DSLAMs for a
living and have done so for the past 15 years. Our earliest generation
DSLAMs were ATM based (T1 IMA fed), but within a couple of years
transitioned to Ethernet. Almost all of the equipment that I come in
contact with is Ethernet at this point, but I'm not on the front-lines and
I don't have a lot of exposure to voice services though, but I think it is
safe to say that telcos are vested pretty heavily in Ethernet these days.

I'll have to ask a co-worker about the makeup of the networks he's seen in
the field, but pretty much all the talk I hear about these days is all
Ethernet. I occasionally hear about GR303, SIP and pseudowire ( a tech that
allows for timely delivery of packetized TDM streams primarily for POTS
services).

Re: [SPAM key] - Re: Software for DEC MINC systems

[Jerome H. Fine]

>Jay Jaeger wrote:


On 12/29/2015 2:47 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote:
 


I have had several folks express the desire for them. Over the day or
few days (we have a gathering coming up tomorrow, and not sure I will
get to it today, so it could be as late as next week), I will load them
up on my Google drive in a directory structure analogous to what
bitsavers uses, and send out the link.

JRJ


https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2v4WRwISEQRWWFFdVpCZWFTZEU&usp=sharing

The structure is similar to bitsavers, so look in:

bits/DEC/pdp11/floppyimages

There are two folders, rx01 and rx02 with .img files.

The image files INCLUDE TRACK 0, so depending on how you plan to use
them, you may need to trim off the first track first.


Any possibility you could provide the full link?  I don't see much
in the way of information at that site to get me to those floppy images.
There might be other DEC and non-DEC PDP-11 images that are
of interest.

This site also has many DEC and non-DEC files for the PDP-11
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/

I usually find that anything to do with google that is not totally obvious
to usually be a pain.

Just on doing a search, the usual > 1,000,000 items stop being anything
at all relevant after item 100.

google is often good to check spelling though (LOL) - I can't spell,
so I always use the Spell checker.

Jerome Fine

Re: Software for DEC MINC systems

[Jerome H. Fine]

Sorry - I did it again and forgot to remove the junk in the subject line!

>Jerome H. Fine wrote:


>Jay Jaeger wrote:

On 12/29/2015 2:47 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: 



I have had several folks express the desire for them. Over the day or
few days (we have a gathering coming up tomorrow, and not sure I will
get to it today, so it could be as late as next week), I will load them
up on my Google drive in a directory structure analogous to what
bitsavers uses, and send out the link.

JRJ 


https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2v4WRwISEQRWWFFdVpCZWFTZEU&usp=sharing 



The structure is similar to bitsavers, so look in:

bits/DEC/pdp11/floppyimages

There are two folders, rx01 and rx02 with .img files.

The image files INCLUDE TRACK 0, so depending on how you plan to use
them, you may need to trim off the first track first. 


Any possibility you could provide the full link?  I don't see much
in the way of information at that site to get me to those floppy images.
There might be other DEC and non-DEC PDP-11 images that are
of interest.

This site also has many DEC and non-DEC files for the PDP-11
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/

I usually find that anything to do with google that is not totally 
obvious

to usually be a pain.

Just on doing a search, the usual > 1,000,000 items stop being anything
at all relevant after item 100.

google is often good to check spelling though (LOL) - I can't spell,
so I always use the Spell checker.

Jerome Fine

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Chuck Guzis]

On 12/30/2015 03:06 PM, Geoffrey Oltmans wrote:


I can't speak for the whole Telco segment, but I work on DSLAMs for
a living and have done so for the past 15 years. Our earliest
generation DSLAMs were ATM based (T1 IMA fed), but within a couple of
years transitioned to Ethernet. Almost all of the equipment that I
come in contact with is Ethernet at this point, but I'm not on the
front-lines and I don't have a lot of exposure to voice services
though, but I think it is safe to say that telcos are vested pretty
heavily in Ethernet these days.



Talking with the techs working on the DSLAM near my house, this summer, 
all said it was still ATM--and much of what went into the DSLAM was 
brand new.  So someone is still making ATM gear.


Still, it's very clear that the big expense in telco is still that "last 
mile"  Cabinets full of punch-down blocks and wire, wire, wire. Techs 
working for weeks with paper charts, one wire at a time.


I think the cable guys have it easy.

--Chuck

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Jon Elson]

On 12/30/2015 12:39 PM, Guy Sotomayor wrote:
We just dropped our POTS service last month.  Our phone 
now is an OOMA VoIP Office system to get the features we 
wanted/needed.  I haven't tried any rotary dial phones on 
it since I don't have any.


We need the landline phone to call when the cable is out.  
We need the VOIP phone to call when the copper line is out 
(which is more often).
Where I'm at, I can't get DSL.  Right now I'm dependent 
upon a dedicated microwave link to my iSP.  I'm getting 
between 20-35Mb/s symmetric (used to be 10Mb/s but it 
looks like they upgraded the link recently).  I'm paying 
$$$'s but since I work from home I need the bandwidth (I'm 
currently using about 800GB/mo).  I had to put in a 
point-to-point WiFi link to get internet to the house from 
my shop (where the microwave dish is).
I can't get DSL here anymore, the lines are WAY too bad for 
that.  I used to have DSL way back when.  I wish I could get 
symmetric cable speeds here, 30/30 would be FANTASTIC, as I 
run a web server here. I live with 60/5, but rumors are that 
we will get upgraded to 100/10 sometime fairly soon.


Jon

Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes

[Guy Sotomayor]

On 12/30/15 6:52 PM, Jon Elson wrote:

On 12/30/2015 12:39 PM, Guy Sotomayor wrote:
We just dropped our POTS service last month.  Our phone now is an 
OOMA VoIP Office system to get the features we wanted/needed.  I 
haven't tried any rotary dial phones on it since I don't have any.


We need the landline phone to call when the cable is out.  We need the 
VOIP phone to call when the copper line is out (which is more often).


We have cell phones for backup phones (and when we're out) but the cell 
service isn't great.  I have really good signal strength up in my shop 
but almost none in the house.  I have a cellular backup link for when 
the microwave goes out (my router automatically switches over when the 
microwave link goes down) but I need to be aware of it and throttle back 
my bandwidth or else I get a hefty charge!


Where I'm at, I can't get DSL.  Right now I'm dependent upon a 
dedicated microwave link to my iSP.  I'm getting between 20-35Mb/s 
symmetric (used to be 10Mb/s but it looks like they upgraded the link 
recently).  I'm paying $$$'s but since I work from home I need the 
bandwidth (I'm currently using about 800GB/mo).  I had to put in a 
point-to-point WiFi link to get internet to the house from my shop 
(where the microwave dish is).
I can't get DSL here anymore, the lines are WAY too bad for that. I 
used to have DSL way back when.  I wish I could get symmetric cable 
speeds here, 30/30 would be FANTASTIC, as I run a web server here. I 
live with 60/5, but rumors are that we will get upgraded to 100/10 
sometime fairly soon.
We're at least 2.5 miles from the DSLAM, so DSL is *not* an option. 
That's the distance on the private roads and I haven't seen where the 
DSLAM might be (nearest town is 5 miles away once you get to the 
"public" roads).


I'm paying mid-3 figures for my link.  Rumor has it that we'll have Gb/s 
fiber brought in but that's 2-3 years away at least.  For now I'm paying 
for what I need...pulling down 100GB worth of git repos for work still 
takes a while.  ;-)


TTFN - Guy

Re: The KGB, the Computer, and Me

[dwight]

I just saw it on youtube. Cool story. It was shocking how unprepared
the CIA and FBI was. I hope they are more on there toes today.
Computer security as we do it today is truly flawed.
I doubt it has gotten much better since then.
If you restrict information too much it is like a blockade to
progress. If you open it up too much, it is like a free for all.
Most of the industrial espionage is discovered after the fact,
usually months after it has be done.
One wonders how much goes undetected.
Most of those getting caught are in upper management. Us
lowly grunts don't seem to get involved as often or maybe
there are those among us that are just that much better at
covering our tracks.
Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Rod Smallwood 

Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 1:45 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: The KGB, the Computer, and Me

Hi
Anybody who has not seen this film (The KGB, the Computer, and Me)
its worth a look. 1980's DEC systems everywhere, LSI terminals, HP kit,
Tape drives in action and apart from the Mac no Windows anywhere.

I think LBL must have bought one of everything.
The story (true) is not bad either.

I now expect to get a long list of weveseenits.

Rod

Re: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278

[William Donzelli]

Sorry about digging up a slightly stale thread...

> I haven't done any troubleshooting yet but checking the manuals on
> Bitsavers tells me my US 3278s have ferroresonant transformers
> specified as 120V 60Hz only. This can be expected to cause problems
> with 120V 50Hz here in NZ from my knowledge of how ferroresonant
> transformers work; I'll get excessive magnetic currents - overheating
> - all kinds of nasties. I can wind the voltage down a bit and run them
> at 90-100V but that doesn't help much.

...but straight from the horses mouth, most IBM ferroresonant
transformers will work at 50 or 60 Hz. The capacitor may need to be
swapped, depending on the equipment.

I was hanging around some IBM old timers this evening, including the
Big Horse at Endicott.

--
Will

Re: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278

[Guy Sotomayor]

On 12/30/15 9:06 PM, William Donzelli wrote:

Sorry about digging up a slightly stale thread...


I haven't done any troubleshooting yet but checking the manuals on
Bitsavers tells me my US 3278s have ferroresonant transformers
specified as 120V 60Hz only. This can be expected to cause problems
with 120V 50Hz here in NZ from my knowledge of how ferroresonant
transformers work; I'll get excessive magnetic currents - overheating
- all kinds of nasties. I can wind the voltage down a bit and run them
at 90-100V but that doesn't help much.

...but straight from the horses mouth, most IBM ferroresonant
transformers will work at 50 or 60 Hz. The capacitor may need to be
swapped, depending on the equipment.

I was hanging around some IBM old timers this evening, including the
Big Horse at Endicott.


I just looked up the FE manual for the 3278 and it shows 5 different 
part numbers for the
ferroresonant transformer (depending upon region) and only a single part 
number for the

capacitor.

TTFN - Guy

Re: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278

[William Donzelli]

Of course! Find the exception that proves the rule!

--
Will

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 12:23 AM, Guy Sotomayor  wrote:
>
>
> On 12/30/15 9:06 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
>>
>> Sorry about digging up a slightly stale thread...
>>
>>> I haven't done any troubleshooting yet but checking the manuals on
>>> Bitsavers tells me my US 3278s have ferroresonant transformers
>>> specified as 120V 60Hz only. This can be expected to cause problems
>>> with 120V 50Hz here in NZ from my knowledge of how ferroresonant
>>> transformers work; I'll get excessive magnetic currents - overheating
>>> - all kinds of nasties. I can wind the voltage down a bit and run them
>>> at 90-100V but that doesn't help much.
>>
>> ...but straight from the horses mouth, most IBM ferroresonant
>> transformers will work at 50 or 60 Hz. The capacitor may need to be
>> swapped, depending on the equipment.
>>
>> I was hanging around some IBM old timers this evening, including the
>> Big Horse at Endicott.
>
>
> I just looked up the FE manual for the 3278 and it shows 5 different part
> numbers for the
> ferroresonant transformer (depending upon region) and only a single part
> number for the
> capacitor.
>
> TTFN - Guy

Re: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278

[Guy Sotomayor]

On 12/30/15 9:29 PM, William Donzelli wrote:

Of course! Find the exception that proves the rule!


;-)  However, it would've been nice if it were only necessary to change
the capacitor!

TTFN - Guy


--
Will

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 12:23 AM, Guy Sotomayor  wrote:


On 12/30/15 9:06 PM, William Donzelli wrote:

Sorry about digging up a slightly stale thread...


I haven't done any troubleshooting yet but checking the manuals on
Bitsavers tells me my US 3278s have ferroresonant transformers
specified as 120V 60Hz only. This can be expected to cause problems
with 120V 50Hz here in NZ from my knowledge of how ferroresonant
transformers work; I'll get excessive magnetic currents - overheating
- all kinds of nasties. I can wind the voltage down a bit and run them
at 90-100V but that doesn't help much.

...but straight from the horses mouth, most IBM ferroresonant
transformers will work at 50 or 60 Hz. The capacitor may need to be
swapped, depending on the equipment.

I was hanging around some IBM old timers this evening, including the
Big Horse at Endicott.


I just looked up the FE manual for the 3278 and it shows 5 different part
numbers for the
ferroresonant transformer (depending upon region) and only a single part
number for the
capacitor.

TTFN - Guy

Re: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278

[William Donzelli]

I bet you (or Mike, actually) could get it to work by trial and error,
swapping in caps. The transformers (generally) are apparently pretty
forgiving - being off in frequency just results in lost efficiency,
maybe 10-15 percent lost at most. Not flames, anyway.

--
Will

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 12:30 AM, Guy Sotomayor  wrote:
>
>
> On 12/30/15 9:29 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
>>
>> Of course! Find the exception that proves the rule!
>
>
> ;-)  However, it would've been nice if it were only necessary to change
> the capacitor!
>
> TTFN - Guy
>
>>
>> --
>> Will
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 12:23 AM, Guy Sotomayor  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/30/15 9:06 PM, William Donzelli wrote:

 Sorry about digging up a slightly stale thread...

> I haven't done any troubleshooting yet but checking the manuals on
> Bitsavers tells me my US 3278s have ferroresonant transformers
> specified as 120V 60Hz only. This can be expected to cause problems
> with 120V 50Hz here in NZ from my knowledge of how ferroresonant
> transformers work; I'll get excessive magnetic currents - overheating
> - all kinds of nasties. I can wind the voltage down a bit and run them
> at 90-100V but that doesn't help much.

 ...but straight from the horses mouth, most IBM ferroresonant
 transformers will work at 50 or 60 Hz. The capacitor may need to be
 swapped, depending on the equipment.

 I was hanging around some IBM old timers this evening, including the
 Big Horse at Endicott.
>>>
>>>
>>> I just looked up the FE manual for the 3278 and it shows 5 different part
>>> numbers for the
>>> ferroresonant transformer (depending upon region) and only a single part
>>> number for the
>>> capacitor.
>>>
>>> TTFN - Guy
>
>

Telecom woes (was: Re: 10 forgotten wonders of 1980s homes)

[Jim Brain]

On 12/30/2015 10:51 PM, Guy Sotomayor wrote:
We're at least 2.5 miles from the DSLAM, so DSL is *not* an option. 
That's the distance on the private roads and I haven't seen where the 
DSLAM might be (nearest town is 5 miles away once you get to the 
"public" roads).
We're in a similar boat.  We're too far away for DSL, microwave can't 
reach us due to the treeline, and Cable isn't available here. I took a 
page from FullTime RV folks, and bought a commercial grade router/AP 
that uses cellular modems for uplink, and then found a business cellular 
package that has unlimited use.  We burn through 400GB every month here.


Jim

Re: The KGB, the Computer, and Me

[Jason T]

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Ray Arachelian  wrote:
> On 12/28/2015 04:45 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
>>
>> I now expect to get a long list of weveseenits.
>
> Indeed!
>
> I remember seeing this on live TV many years ago.  You can find it on
> youtube now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcKxaq1FTac

Thanks for digging that up, watched it during dinner tonight.  I had
read the book in the early 90s but never knew Nova did a piece on it.
It was cheesily-acted (with the real people, so that's ok) but a fun
breeze through the story.

j

Re: Telecom woes

[Guy Sotomayor]

On 12/30/15 10:02 PM, Jim Brain wrote:

On 12/30/2015 10:51 PM, Guy Sotomayor wrote:
We're at least 2.5 miles from the DSLAM, so DSL is *not* an option. 
That's the distance on the private roads and I haven't seen where the 
DSLAM might be (nearest town is 5 miles away once you get to the 
"public" roads).
We're in a similar boat.  We're too far away for DSL, microwave can't 
reach us due to the treeline, and Cable isn't available here. I took a 
page from FullTime RV folks, and bought a commercial grade router/AP 
that uses cellular modems for uplink, and then found a business 
cellular package that has unlimited use.  We burn through 400GB every 
month here.
I feel your pain!  I had a "home" package with the same ISP when we 
first moved in.  Since that tower was "downslope" from our house there 
wasn't a problem.  When I switched to their commercial package (the 
speeds and network congestion were making it difficult at times to get 
work done), I had to switch to a new tower (because it's a dedicated 
link and there was no more space on the tower I was pointing at).  They 
had to mount the microwave dish on a tower on the roof of my 
shop...we're at the top of a hill and I'm still having to shoot between 
some trees.  I'll probably have to get an arborist to come out in a year 
or two and trim some branches.


I should probably investigate a business cellular package.  My ISP did 
have an outage that lasted about 8 hours a few months ago and that was 
painful because I was trying to conserve data usage not to mention that 
my cellular modem at that point decided to take a holiday and not bring 
up the cellular link.


TTFN - Guy

Re: cctech Digest, Vol 18, Issue 30

[Mark Matlock]

On Dec 30, 2015, at 12:00 PM, cctech-requ...@classiccmp.org wrote:

> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 14:47:17 -0600
> From: Jay Jaeger 
> To: cct...@classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: Software for DEC MINC systems
> Message-ID: <5682f155.3050...@charter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> 
>>> 
>>> On 12/27/2015 10:15 PM, Mark Matlock wrote:
 
  The software I am looking for are the MINC software packages FEP (Fortran 
 Enhancement Package) V2.1 and FRP (Fortran Real_time Package) V1.0. Also 
 SSP V1.3 (Scientific Subroutines Package) and LSP V1.2 (Laboratory 
 Subroutines Package) would be great to find as well. These all run under 
 RT-11 and I understand that there was also a version (V1.1) of FEP and 
 V1.0 of FRP that ran under RSX11M which would be fantastic to find as I am 
 more interested in RSX11M. This is based on documents in the MINC folder 
 in the bitsavers online archives.
 
 Mark
 
>>> 
>>> I have some MINC hardware (also a MINC/23 I think) and software, but it
>>> does not look like I have what you are looking for.
>>> 
>>> What I do have images of (except for the one marked "(Bad)" that seem
>>> likely MINC related:
>>> 
>>> RX01:
>>> 
>>> CONTENTS COMMENT
>>> LAB Applications-11 Library V3 DEC-11-SLABA-C-YB, NSUM=41906
>>> LAB Applications-11 Lib Source 1 of 3 DEC-11-SLABA-C-YA1, NSUM=56190
>>> LAB Applications-11 Lib Source 2 of 3 DEC-11-SLABA-C-YA2, NSUM=28900
>>> LAB Applications-11 Lib Source 3 of 3 DEC-11-SLABA-C-YA3, NSUM=65055
>>> 
>>> CONTENTS COMMENT
>>> PLOT, Ver June '80 DECUS 11-381 RT-11 Media(KA) (Bad)
>>> MINC BASIC/FORTRAN IV VIR TERM DECUS 11-417 RT-11, NSUM=22281
>>> PLOTTING PKG For RT-11 FORTRAN DECUS 11-431 RT-11, NSUM=12228
>>> LABORATORY APPLICATIONS-11 1 of 4, (KD) DECUS 11-448 RT-11, NSUM=15424
>>> LABORATORY APPLICATIONS-11 2 of 4, (KD) DECUS 11-448 RT-11, NSUM=1369
>>> LABORATORY APPLICATIONS-11 3 of 4, (KD) DECUS 11-448 RT-11, NSUM=2841
>>> LABORATORY APPLICATIONS-11 4 of 4, (KD) DECUS 11-448 RT-11, NSUM=21353
>>> FEP2: FINITE ELEMENT PROG 3DIM 1 of 2 KB DECUS 11-461 RT-11, NSUM=14187
>>> FEP2: FINITE ELEMENT PROG 3DIM 2 of 2 KB DECUS 11-461 RT-11, NSUM=26552
>>> 
>>> 
>>> RX02:
>>> 
>>> CONTENTS COMMENT
>>> MINC MA DEMO/23 V2.0 BIN RX2 BA-J837B-BC, NSUM=04649
>>> MINC MA DEMO/03 V2.0 BIN RX2 BA-H107D-BC, NSUM=58263
>>> MINC MA SYS/23 V2.0 BIN RX2 BA-J836B-BC, NSUM=17510
>>> MINC MA SYS/03 V2.0 BIN RX2 BA-H106D-BC, NSUM=61253
>> 
>> 
> 
> I have had several folks express the desire for them. Over the day or
> few days (we have a gathering coming up tomorrow, and not sure I will
> get to it today, so it could be as late as next week), I will load them
> up on my Google drive in a directory structure analogous to what
> bitsavers uses, and send out the link.
> 
> JRJ


Jay,
   Thank you so much for putting the RX01 and RX02 images on your Google drive. 
This afternoon I was able to download them all and in RT11/Simh copy all the 
files to a large DU: type drive to both verify that the disk images downloaded 
correctly and to put everything in one convenient volume to load on a microSD 
card for the SCSI2SD transfer to a real PDP-11. I didn't notice any file names 
duplicating as I combined the contents of the floppies and if that the case 
there were 168 files on the RX01s and 64 files on the RX02s with a combined 
size of 3976 blocks. 

   Browsing through the files I saw lots of great example code for a wide range 
of scientific routines!! Thanks again for taking the time to put the files out 
there.

Thanks again!!
Mark

Re: Ferroresonant transformers and 3278

[Mike Ross]

Thanks for the thought... my main concern is the System/3s and Henk
Stegeman - who has forgotten more than most of us will ever know about
S/3! - says that 60Hz S/3 on 50Hz power is a no-go. Different voltage,
fine - transformer can be restrapped. Different frequency... trouble!

And then there are rotary machines of course. I bet you half my disks
drives need the right frequency or a spindle pulley change.. and even
then *they* probably have ferroresonants in their power...

Mike

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 6:37 PM, William Donzelli  wrote:
> I bet you (or Mike, actually) could get it to work by trial and error,
> swapping in caps. The transformers (generally) are apparently pretty
> forgiving - being off in frequency just results in lost efficiency,
> maybe 10-15 percent lost at most. Not flames, anyway.
>
> --
> Will
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 12:30 AM, Guy Sotomayor  wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 12/30/15 9:29 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
>>>
>>> Of course! Find the exception that proves the rule!
>>
>>
>> ;-)  However, it would've been nice if it were only necessary to change
>> the capacitor!
>>
>> TTFN - Guy
>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Will
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 12:23 AM, Guy Sotomayor  wrote:


 On 12/30/15 9:06 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
>
> Sorry about digging up a slightly stale thread...
>
>> I haven't done any troubleshooting yet but checking the manuals on
>> Bitsavers tells me my US 3278s have ferroresonant transformers
>> specified as 120V 60Hz only. This can be expected to cause problems
>> with 120V 50Hz here in NZ from my knowledge of how ferroresonant
>> transformers work; I'll get excessive magnetic currents - overheating
>> - all kinds of nasties. I can wind the voltage down a bit and run them
>> at 90-100V but that doesn't help much.
>
> ...but straight from the horses mouth, most IBM ferroresonant
> transformers will work at 50 or 60 Hz. The capacitor may need to be
> swapped, depending on the equipment.
>
> I was hanging around some IBM old timers this evening, including the
> Big Horse at Endicott.


 I just looked up the FE manual for the 3278 and it shows 5 different part
 numbers for the
 ferroresonant transformer (depending upon region) and only a single part
 number for the
 capacitor.

 TTFN - Guy
>>
>>



-- 

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'