Re: Display-less computing

[Mike Boyle]

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:11 PM, Fred Cisin  wrote:

> I've only ever seen them called "12" and "11" for the top and next
 rows respectively.  For example, the card code listing on the IBM 360
 "green card" shows them that way (e.g., A is 12-1).

>>> Same here.  But it's not outside the range of possibility that *someone*
>>> called them X and Y, although I don't know who did.  Doug Jones doesn't
>>> mention it.
>>>
>>
> On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Dave Wade wrote:
>
>> I have seen ICT punches labelled this way. There is one here where "X" and
>> "Y" have been manually added.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keypunch#/media/File:Hand-operated_Card_Punch-
>> 2.jpg
>> I think the one I own is labelled
>>
>
> In my experience, they were called 'X'/'Y', or "12"/"11", but there were
> occasional other names, even "high"/"low".   Since the cards were not
> marked, people could come up with all sorts of other cockamamie choices.
>
> > Let's not forget the System/3 96-column cards.  BA8421 (sort of like >
>> 7-track mag tape), with a really wacky way to combine the columns to > make
>> 8-bit bytes.
>> > Univac, of course, had their own system with their double-45 column >
>> system, round holes and all.
>>
>
> There were "window" cards that carried a piece of micro-fiche.  Were the
> makers of those aware of Gldberg's "Rapid-Selector" and/or Vannevar Bush's
> Memex?  (Both of which were motion picture film based microfilm with
> optical reading of dot patterns for selection)
>
> There were even punched cards that also carried a mag-stripe (a
> transitional device?)
> I even saw some crude attempts to implement McBee edge sort - set of holes
> around the perimeter that were linked or not linked with a slot to the
> edge; poke a knitting needle through the hole(s) and see which ones shook
> out.   Some also carried "normal" punched card data punched on them.
> Only once did I see a "multi-value" system - multiple holes punched in a
> column, and edge slot going varying number of holes deep - "I want a value
> of greater than or equal 3": poke the needle through 3, and 3, 2, and 1
> would all shake out.
>
> My father claimed that the use of round holes on divergent cards was due
> to an attempt by IBM to patent the shape of the hole in the cards.  He also
> thought that the development of optical card readers was significantly
> boosted along by an IBM attempt to patent use of a brass roller.
>
> For "The National Driving Test" (CBS 1966?), he had a sample MAIL back
> port-a-punch (pre-perfed alternate columns) cards!
> IBM succeeded in reading them!  But, IBM's statistical programming
> resulted in our whole family starting to learn FORTRAN the next day.
>
>


-- 
I would love to have a micro and all of the 70 and 80- 87 Honda Motorcycle
parts! The old ATC's Gotta Love em!

Re: Mystery IC: Allen Bradley 314B102

[Paul Berger]

On 2015-12-17 2:26 AM, Mike Ross wrote:

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 8:01 PM, Brent Hilpert  wrote:

On 2015-Dec-15, at 6:21 PM, Mike Ross wrote:

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Mike Stein  wrote:

I have taken Brent up on that :-)

I'll poke a bit more myself and see what we can work out together
before I decide if the effort is worth it.


First crack can be picked up here:
 http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~hilpert/tmp/WIOSelectric.pdf

There are a few areas and pins I couldn't discern from the photos.
Mostly around U1 & U6 as the lens angle and lighting is hiding some connections 
around those.
If you take another photo or check some of the connections marked in red I can 
update the schematic.

I've labeled the host interface connections as per the most likely scenario:
 D0-D6: in correspondence to the 'normal' PROM addressing, so D0 is 
likely the ASCII LSB.
 nSTB: this should be the print-strobe input, looks like active-low.
 BUSY/RDY: haven't examined the logic enough to say whether this 
active-high or -low for whichever way one chooses to interpret it - BUSY / 
READY / ACK.

Amazing work Brent!

I've wired the thing up in accordance with your schematics and here
are the results:

On power-up the line we believe is Strobe is high; all others are low
- and I'm monitoring the printer side of the interface here.

I cat file.name > /dev/lp0

The printer prints a character; Linux is waiting. The line we presume
to be Busy/Ready flickers briefly high as it is printed.

I toggle the local/com switch from com to local and back to com:
another character is printed. Linux waits. I can sometimes continue
this process one character at a time by toggling the local/com switch.
At other times toggling the switch sends Linux straight back to the
command prompt.

The characters printed are pretty exclusively semicolons underscores and 8s.

The carriage never advances; all characters are printed at the same spot.

Further observations:

- If I initiate the print with the Strobe line disconnected Linux
returns to the command prompt instantly and nothing is printed.
- If I disconnect the Strobe line after printing has started Linux
returns to the command prompt instantly after the com/local switch is
cycled
- If I disconnect the Busy line prior to starting to print nothing is
printed until I connect the Busy line
- If I print a character by cycling the local/com switch with the Busy
line disconnected a *second* character is printed when I reconnect it.
- Busy flickers high every time a character is printed. The status of
the Strobe line never visibly changes; it always appears high. Might
put a scope on those...

There's clearly something funky going on with signaling - timing or
active high vs. active low. At no time does the printer *ever* print
more than one character without some manual intervention.

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'
1. If the carriage never advances that is a mechanical problem, the 
escapement is triggered by a cam on the filter shaft.  If the cords are 
off, these are white nylon cords attached to each side of the carrier, 
the carrier will not move.  It is also possible something is jamming the 
carrier.


2. There must be more electronics in this than the one card.  There 
would need to be a 5V  power supply for the logic and 48V power supply 
for the solenoids (magnets).  There would also need to be drivers for 
the magnets, there is nothing on the board with the logic to drive the 
48V magnets.


3. It would be helpful to know where the signals inside the typer go.  
My guess would be the outputs from the PROMs would go to drivers for the 
selection and function magnets, and one of the others must go to pick 
the cycle clutch, but there would need to be some way to inhibit that 
for functions, and I don't see that on the schematic.  Some of the 
inputs on the extreme left of the diagram likely go to feedback 
contacts, but it would be helpful to know which ones.


4. It is possible the expected feedback from the typer is not happening 
due to a contaminated contact.  If the contacts are gold coloured, they 
are gold plated and you should not use anything abrasive to clean them.


Paul.

Re: Mystery IC: Allen Bradley 314B102

[Mike Ross]

In extreme brief as nearly 3am and I've been hacking late on a 3277 :)

1. The mechanism has just been extensively serviced by an expert and works
perfectly in local typewriter mode.

2. Possible bad contacts had occurred to me and will be investigated.

3. Yes there's another board that drives the mechanism! I'll get pics.

Mike
On Dec 18, 2015 2:08 AM, "Paul Berger"  wrote:

> On 2015-12-17 2:26 AM, Mike Ross wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 8:01 PM, Brent Hilpert  wrote:
>>
>>> On 2015-Dec-15, at 6:21 PM, Mike Ross wrote:
>>>
 On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Mike Stein 
 wrote:

 I have taken Brent up on that :-)

 I'll poke a bit more myself and see what we can work out together
 before I decide if the effort is worth it.

>>>
>>> First crack can be picked up here:
>>>  http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~hilpert/tmp/WIOSelectric.pdf
>>>
>>> There are a few areas and pins I couldn't discern from the photos.
>>> Mostly around U1 & U6 as the lens angle and lighting is hiding some
>>> connections around those.
>>> If you take another photo or check some of the connections marked in red
>>> I can update the schematic.
>>>
>>> I've labeled the host interface connections as per the most likely
>>> scenario:
>>>  D0-D6: in correspondence to the 'normal' PROM addressing, so D0
>>> is likely the ASCII LSB.
>>>  nSTB: this should be the print-strobe input, looks like
>>> active-low.
>>>  BUSY/RDY: haven't examined the logic enough to say whether this
>>> active-high or -low for whichever way one chooses to interpret it - BUSY /
>>> READY / ACK.
>>>
>> Amazing work Brent!
>>
>> I've wired the thing up in accordance with your schematics and here
>> are the results:
>>
>> On power-up the line we believe is Strobe is high; all others are low
>> - and I'm monitoring the printer side of the interface here.
>>
>> I cat file.name > /dev/lp0
>>
>> The printer prints a character; Linux is waiting. The line we presume
>> to be Busy/Ready flickers briefly high as it is printed.
>>
>> I toggle the local/com switch from com to local and back to com:
>> another character is printed. Linux waits. I can sometimes continue
>> this process one character at a time by toggling the local/com switch.
>> At other times toggling the switch sends Linux straight back to the
>> command prompt.
>>
>> The characters printed are pretty exclusively semicolons underscores and
>> 8s.
>>
>> The carriage never advances; all characters are printed at the same spot.
>>
>> Further observations:
>>
>> - If I initiate the print with the Strobe line disconnected Linux
>> returns to the command prompt instantly and nothing is printed.
>> - If I disconnect the Strobe line after printing has started Linux
>> returns to the command prompt instantly after the com/local switch is
>> cycled
>> - If I disconnect the Busy line prior to starting to print nothing is
>> printed until I connect the Busy line
>> - If I print a character by cycling the local/com switch with the Busy
>> line disconnected a *second* character is printed when I reconnect it.
>> - Busy flickers high every time a character is printed. The status of
>> the Strobe line never visibly changes; it always appears high. Might
>> put a scope on those...
>>
>> There's clearly something funky going on with signaling - timing or
>> active high vs. active low. At no time does the printer *ever* print
>> more than one character without some manual intervention.
>>
>> http://www.corestore.org
>> 'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
>> Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
>> For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'
>>
> 1. If the carriage never advances that is a mechanical problem, the
> escapement is triggered by a cam on the filter shaft.  If the cords are
> off, these are white nylon cords attached to each side of the carrier, the
> carrier will not move.  It is also possible something is jamming the
> carrier.
>
> 2. There must be more electronics in this than the one card.  There would
> need to be a 5V  power supply for the logic and 48V power supply for the
> solenoids (magnets).  There would also need to be drivers for the magnets,
> there is nothing on the board with the logic to drive the 48V magnets.
>
> 3. It would be helpful to know where the signals inside the typer go.  My
> guess would be the outputs from the PROMs would go to drivers for the
> selection and function magnets, and one of the others must go to pick the
> cycle clutch, but there would need to be some way to inhibit that for
> functions, and I don't see that on the schematic.  Some of the inputs on
> the extreme left of the diagram likely go to feedback contacts, but it
> would be helpful to know which ones.
>
> 4. It is possible the expected feedback from the typer is not happening
> due to a contaminated contact.  If the contacts are gold coloured, they are
> gold plated and you should not use anythin

Re: Decisions you regret (classiccmp related)

[Doug Ingraham]

I regret that when I obtained my Straight 8 system in the early 80's I
chose not to take the ASR-35.  In retrospect this was a huge mistake.  My
thinking at the time was in addition to not having room for it it was noisy
and would be difficult to maintain.  I used my Processor Tech Sol 20 as the
terminal because it has a current loop interface and could operate at 110
baud.

A glass terminal is not the same experience as a teletype.


-- 
Doug Ingraham
PDP-8 SN 1175

Re: VAX 4000-500 PSU Overload?

[Holm Tiffe]

Robert Jarratt wrote:

> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Holm
> Tiffe
> > Sent: 16 December 2015 17:27
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > Subject: Re: VAX 4000-500 PSU Overload?
> > 
> > Robert Jarratt wrote:
> > 
> > ...sounds very similar to my experience with that PSU. The cure seems to
> be
> > simple run that machine then mine has stopped powering off now it seems.
> > 
> > I don't even know if the power off is because of an detected overload at
> all, I
> > had problems to even power on the machine the first time before changing
> > the caps. It would start only the approx 5 time if I switched it on and I
> think
> > that those problems are related.
> > 
> 
> I intend to do some more analysis and testing before putting the PSU back in
> the machine. I just tried using a current-limited bench PSU on the outputs
> of the PSU to see if one of them behaves oddly. I suspect the -12V output is
> not right, it sucked up more than 1A with just 0.3V across it. The other
> outputs sucked up much less current and increased slowly.

..sounds at least interresting. Maybe you have a bad Tantal Capacitor
somewhere on the boards..
Try to pull boards until the current decreases...

> 
> Of course it could have been a totally invalid test, but I know in some
> circumstances it can help to see if the output stage and the crowbar is
> working. 

Whatever you want..  I'm curious what you will find out.
> 
> > I've installed VMS 7.3 and some additional packages and played for some
> > days with that machine and it is running stable now if I power it on.
> > The only thing that I still have to complain about is that the NiCad Pack
> is
> > empty again a little to fast for my taste, the Battery was a new one..
> > 
> 
> Some people suggest removing those batteries altogether, to avoid damaging
> leaks.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Rob
> 

The machine is build to contain those NC Packs, and yes I know that gases
from the Cells will corrode the electronics around it.
But the machine had some years running time on it and the corrosion effects
are pretty small, so I think with the fitted new battery it will last some
additional and I could handle this.


Regards,

Holm

-- 
  Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, 
 Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
  www.tsht.de, i...@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741

RE: VAX 4000-500 PSU Overload?

[Maciej W. Rozycki]

On Sun, 13 Dec 2015, Robert Jarratt wrote:

> >  No leaking ChemiCon SXF-series capacitors inside?  They seem to suffer
> > from some kind of design or manufacturing defect and consequently the
> > electrolyte gets through the seal eventually even in parts never used.  A
> > number of DEC PSUs have these capacitors, including the H7874 PSU which
> > BA430/BA440 VAX 4000 cabinets use.
> 
> 
> Just opened it up and there are indeed leaking caps, the brown ones. There
> is also a strange deposit on a couple of screws (picture here:
> http://1drv.ms/1micVN7), but the screws are nowhere near the leaking
> capacitors. Any thoughts on that?

 Obviously zinc plating of the screw has come in reaction with something.

 It doesn't seem from the photo electrolyte could have reached there, 
however I'd double check that, in particular inspect the surface of the 
PCB throughout looking for any difference in appearance.  This stuff can 
reach far, e.g. in one of my failed H7821 PSUs which was unfortunately 
stored at an angle to its proper operational position (or otherwise the 
upside down position of problematic capacitors have prevented the seal 
from failing), electrolyte travelled at least 15cm/6" away from the failed 
capacitor.  And this screw is located in a bottom corner of the PSU when 
in its operational position so gravity will drive leaked electrolyte 
towards it even if capillary action does not.  Other than that I have no 
idea.

 Lead or tin from the soldering alloy aren't as reactive as zinc is and 
therefore they don't show signs of corrosion so quickly as zinc does, 
although as I observed in the failed PSUs I have they eventually do too.  
As does copper from any exposed traces and can the solder mask or the 
epoxy substrate of the PCB itself too.

> >  Unfortunately replacing the parts is not easy as heatsinks block access
> to the
> > soldering pads and you need to desolder main rectifiers first to gain
> access.
> > You need to clean any electrolyte spills too as they will cause corrosion
> and
> > shorts.
> 
> Yes, I have had one of these PSUs apart before and know how horrible it is
> to get at these parts. I will however go ahead and replace these caps.

 Indeed, and good luck!

 NB the two brown capacitors seen in the middle top of your photo are 
among ones that leaked in my PSU; an SXF marking is barely recognisable on 
the edge of the lower one in your photo.  After considerable effort 
earlier this year I succeeded with removing the intermediate heatsink 
blocking access to these caps, by desoldering the four rectifier 
dual-diodes holding the heatsink in place -- at the cost of losing a leg 
from one of the smaller ones (a Motorola MBR3045PT) and some damage to the 
PCB.

 Fortunately MBR3045PT parts are still available and I was able to get a 
replacement, and the damage to the PCB is I believe not critical.  What's 
important the larger rectifier dual-diodes (84CNQ045; no clear indication 
of the manufacturer) have survived intact, as these seem to have become 
unobtainium now.  Apparently the last die foundry capable of making these 
parts has discontinued them earlier this year due to lack of customer 
interest, so the only source remaining might be part recovery from 
otherwise broken equipment.

 Overall I think I'll need better tools to be able to desolder such stuff 
in a more repeatable and less destructive way.  The thick legs of the 
84CNQ045 parts combined with the large volume and consequently thermal 
capacity of the intermediate heatsink seem to be able to take heat away 
virtually instantaneously.  I'll appreciate your advice on choosing a good 
soldering/desoldering station, capable of handling such high-current (and
consequently highly heat-conducting) parts.

 For the curious and possibly to provide some information on the parts 
involved I've documented progress with the disassembly of this module at: 
 
(large photos!).  Removing the offending caps revealed C322 and C323 
designation underneath; these are 330µF/25V parts.  I decided not to move 
forward with installing replacements and reassembling the module, or 
proceeding with disassembling the other module without upgrading my 
soldering/desoldering tools first though.

> >  I observed similar symptoms with the failed PSU as you do: it started up
> > briefly, enough for diagnostic output to start coming from the system
> > through the console port, and then within a couple of seconds the PSU shut
> > down.
> 
> I don't have an easy way to apply test loads to all the outputs at the same
> time. Is it possible to remove the final output boards for each "half" of
> the output and test one at a time without causing the PSU to shut down?

 No idea.  I've only recently started finding my way with this system; I'm 
mostly a software person.  Admittedly quite a low-level one, but still on 
the software side.  And it's been only earlier this year I discove

Re: Decisions you regret (classiccmp related)

[Al Kossow]

The biggest one, which started me down the path of software preservation,
was giving away all the DECtapes that were on UW-Milwaukee's TSS/8 system
to Gary Coleman in Cleveland. I managed to find a box or two that other
people on the system kept, which is where what I have of the TSS/8 sources
came from. Gary told me he gave them to Jeff Russ at Indiana University,
but even after going down there to talk to him I got nowhere finding out
if he had (has?) them. I don't even know if Jeff is still alive, or what
happened to the big stash of 18-bit DEC computers he had.

Re: WTB: PDP-11/03 front bezel

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 09:30:23AM +1000, ste...@malikoff.com wrote:
> 
> I've been after one for a while, too. I was very kindly offered one from a 
> listmember who would have
> taken it off his own machine, but I felt that would have deprived that box.
> 

I'd be divided if I'd get that offer.

> I've tried DEC resellers but no luck there.
> 
> If I can get accurate measurements I think i should be able to 
> knock up a CAD drawing and construct a passable replica from 
> styrene sheet, a material with which I am very familiar 
> working with. I have a number of large sheets of it in 
> different thicknesses already.
> 
> So if anyone can take some photos and measurements for me I'll 
> add this project to the pile :)

:-)

/P

Re: Diablo 3000 schematics wanted

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 06:07:24PM +, tony duell wrote:
> 
> I have one that was mangled in the house-move (the movers decided to cut the 
> keyboard
> cable for me). 

Wow, did you get any compensation?

/P

Re: Decisions you regret Was: Mystery IC: Allen Bradley 314B102

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 10:17:20AM -0500, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> 
> Although I suspect a lot of people here have stories like that...
> 

Most of the stories here top mine but I keep kicking myself for 
leaving a DEC prioris behind. It's a relatively bulky x86 but it 
uses the same PSU as a broken AlphaServer 1000 4/233 I have. I 
suspected it was the case but I thought the prioris was to big 
for a PSU that might fit the alpha.

Anyone wants an AS 1000 4/233 with bad PSU?

/P

RE: Decisions you regret (classiccmp related)

[tony duell]

> 
> We were moving, and my Spousal Unit convinced me to toss things I hadn't
> touched in a while - including my Intercept Jr. with the 32K battery-backed
> RAM card, and an old-style acoustic coupler modem.Now that I'm
> considering a major move again (after my daughter goes off to college, in a
> couple of years) she's started making those noises again.  We'll see what
> gets left behind this time

If you have any sense, your 'Spousal Unit'.

-tony

Re: Decisions you regret (classiccmp related)

[Ian S. King]

We were moving, and my Spousal Unit convinced me to toss things I hadn't
touched in a while - including my Intercept Jr. with the 32K battery-backed
RAM card, and an old-style acoustic coupler modem.Now that I'm
considering a major move again (after my daughter goes off to college, in a
couple of years) she's started making those noises again.  We'll see what
gets left behind this time

On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Al Kossow  wrote:

> The biggest one, which started me down the path of software preservation,
> was giving away all the DECtapes that were on UW-Milwaukee's TSS/8 system
> to Gary Coleman in Cleveland. I managed to find a box or two that other
> people on the system kept, which is where what I have of the TSS/8 sources
> came from. Gary told me he gave them to Jeff Russ at Indiana University,
> but even after going down there to talk to him I got nowhere finding out
> if he had (has?) them. I don't even know if Jeff is still alive, or what
> happened to the big stash of 18-bit DEC computers he had.
>
>
>
>


-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

RE: Diablo 3000 schematics wanted

[tony duell]

> 
> > I have one that was mangled in the house-move (the movers decided to cut 
> > the keyboard
> > cable for me).
> 
> Wow, did you get any compensation?

You are joking, right? Their 'terms and conditions' mean you had to claim within
7 days of the move. I don;t know anybody who could inspect everything they own
within 7 days. 

Other damage included a hard disk unit being dropped so that the metal casing 
was totally out of true (amazingly the winchester drives survived)

A Pro 350 being dropped sufficiently hard that the chassis was bent so getting 
the
processor board out was non-trivial (that machine has been restored, although 
it 
really needs a new top cover).

The Dablo 3000 keyboard cable I have already mentioned, also the mains lead 
from one of my PDP11/10s was ripped out (no good reason for doing this, it
was coiled up on top of the processor box), I haven't fixed that yet

Just about every keyboard I own lost keycaps. Still looking for ones for a 
couple
of HP86Bs and a Newbrain

And a number of things, some of sentimental value (like a Nikon lens [1] tbat 
was
the last thing my father and I ever talked about), others of financial value, 
and some
of almost no value at all (the set of screws and internal bracketry I need to 
put my
R80 together) 'disappeared.

[1] I have managed to buy another one of these, but it's not the same, of 
course.
They were clueless about this, they took a relatively common and 
not-too-valuable
lens because, I guess, it looked impressive (300mm f/4.5) while leaving the much
nicer PC-Nikkor.

I estimate the total loss (including repairs) is well into 5 figures. I could 
have taken
them to court, but as a friend said 'There's one of you, six of them and they 
will
lie through their teeth'. So I just have to put thing right as best I can.

To tie in another thread, my big regret is not renting back the house I sold 
(the
seller would have let me do this) for a month and giving 3 of my friends
 \pounds 1 each to do the move for me. It would have cost a bit more
but I would not be now looking for a keycap for a Newbrain or the gas strut
brackets for an R80. 

-tony

/P

Re: WTB: PDP-11/03 front bezel

[Rod Smallwood]

On 17/12/2015 16:53, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 09:30:23AM +1000, ste...@malikoff.com wrote:

I've been after one for a while, too. I was very kindly offered one from a 
listmember who would have
taken it off his own machine, but I felt that would have deprived that box.


I'd be divided if I'd get that offer.


I've tried DEC resellers but no luck there.

If I can get accurate measurements I think i should be able to
knock up a CAD drawing and construct a passable replica from
styrene sheet, a material with which I am very familiar
working with. I have a number of large sheets of it in
different thicknesses already.

So if anyone can take some photos and measurements for me I'll
add this project to the pile :)

:-)

/P

Thats interesting.
I had  always wondered about what bezels are made of.
The one off my 8/e seems too heavy for aluminium.
It must be diecast something  or other.

 I also thought of maybe making a silicone mould and use casting resin.

Rod Smallwood

Re: Decisions you regret Was: Mystery IC: Allen Bradley 314B102

[Adrian Graham]

On 17 December 2015 at 17:07, Pontus Pihlgren  wrote:

> Most of the stories here top mine but I keep kicking myself for
> leaving a DEC prioris behind. It's a relatively bulky x86 but it
> uses the same PSU as a broken AlphaServer 1000 4/233 I have. I
> suspected it was the case but I thought the prioris was to big
> for a PSU that might fit the alpha.
>
> Anyone wants an AS 1000 4/233 with bad PSU?
>

I really hope the AS1000 PSU is different to the Alpha 1200 because we
scrapped 2 of those yesterday along with 12 fully loaded Alpha4100s.

-- 
adrian/witchy
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest home computer collection?
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Re: Decisions you regret (classiccmp related)

[Mike Boyle]

On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Doug Ingraham 
wrote:

> I regret that when I obtained my Straight 8 system in the early 80's I
> chose not to take the ASR-35.  In retrospect this was a huge mistake.  My
> thinking at the time was in addition to not having room for it it was noisy
> and would be difficult to maintain.  I used my Processor Tech Sol 20 as the
> terminal because it has a current loop interface and could operate at 110
> baud.
>
> A glass terminal is not the same experience as a teletype.
>
>
> --
> Doug Ingraham
> PDP-8 SN 1175
>



-- 
I did a Google search on a straight eight system and found this . .

http://www.pdp8.net/shows/vcfe12/exhibit_small.jpg

If this is the correct image I see a small round screen and if memory
serves me a line
like a heart beat monitor. Fi I am correct how in the world would you read
this.



*Honda ATC 3wheeler's for LIFE!!!   Have a blessed day!*

Re: Decisions you regret (classiccmp related)

[william degnan]

On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Al Kossow  wrote:

> The biggest one, which started me down the path of software preservation,
> was giving away all the DECtapes that were on UW-Milwaukee's TSS/8 system
> to Gary Coleman in Cleveland.
>

What you talkin' bout Willis?

I thought they filmed Different Strokes in LA.

-- 
Bill

Re: A suitable project for Display-less computing

[Fred Cisin]

On Thu, 17 Dec 2015, Mike Boyle wrote:

I would love to have a micro and all of the 70 and 80- 87 Honda Motorcycle
parts! The old ATC's Gotta Love em!


Then you should start designing a database to keep track of the parts, and 
the ones that you have.

You will need several boxes of punched cards, a sorter (084?), and a 407.
Or, a TRS80 with two floppies is adequate (barely) to handle a reasonable 
inventory, if you want a screen. (I did that in 1979)


In your time frame, all parts should have the "new" Honda part numbers, 
which were introduced in about 1966? although some parts would still be 
labelled with the old part code numbering system, which was a 5 or 6 digit 
number.


The "new" part number system (still in use!) has multiple parts.
The first field is normally 5 digits, although sometimes also suffix 
letter(s).  Of those 5 digits, the first two are the "function number", 
followed by three digits of "component number".  That pretty much tells 
you what the part is, although not enough to get the right one for your 
vehicle.
The second field, separated by hyphens is the "product code" or "parts 
classification number", and is a three digit alphanumeric code for what 
model first used that part (NOT necessarily the model of your vehicle). 
For example, "001" was a C100 motorcycle, "500" was an S500 car (not 
imported into USA, although there are dozens of S600s in USA), "551" and 
"568" were AN600, "634" was a Civic, etc.
The third field, usually 3 digits, but often exteded with suffixes, is 2 
digits for modification number, and a digit for subcontractor.


But "standard" parts, such as nuts and bolts, will sometimes use an 
alternate numbering system.

The first field is two digits for function and 3 digits for type.
The second field is dimensions.
The optional third field is sometimes used for ISO designations.


FINDING the right part requires extensive knowledge, including historical 
of which models previously used that part, and/or massive 
cross-referencing, such as using the Honda parts books to find the part in 
an exploded view and then treat the provided number as arbitrary.

Parts books can be found.  Dealer price lists are harder to come by.

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
(Honda cars 1965 - 1980)

Re: What did computers without screens do?

[Diane Bruce]

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 04:47:33PM -0700, ben wrote:
> On 12/16/2015 1:29 PM, Mike Stein wrote:
> 
> > So you can definitely do lots of useful stuff without a screen,

Old thread, but I remember writing a tic-tac-toe program for the 1401
using the sense switches and lights. Does that count as a display less
computer?

-- 
- d...@freebsd.org d...@db.net http://www.db.net/~db

Re: What did computers without screens do?

[Chuck Guzis]

On 12/17/2015 09:58 AM, Diane Bruce wrote:


Old thread, but I remember writing a tic-tac-toe program for the
1401 using the sense switches and lights. Does that count as a
display less computer?



Certainly, it counts as not having a "screen", which is the topic.  And 
then, I wonder if the intended topic really is "screen graphic 
capability".  After all, a "glass tty" isn't all that much different 
from a paper tty.


--Chuck

Re: WTB: PDP-11/03 front bezel

[Ethan Dicks]

On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Rod Smallwood
 wrote:
> I had  always wondered about what bezels are made of.
> The one off my 8/e seems too heavy for aluminium.
> It must be diecast something  or other.

Zamac?

-ethan

RE: The Structure of SYSTEM/360 (Blaauw & Brooks, et al.)

[Paul Birkel]

I find that Parts 1 and 2 appear as Chapters 43 & 44 in "Computer
Structures: Readings and Examples" (Bell & Newell; 1971), but that seems to
be it for public availability.  For those chapters, see:
http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/gbell/CGB%20Files/Computer%20S
tructures%20Readings%20and%20Examples%201971.pdf

 

Otherwise prepare to be confronted by an IEEE pay-wall :-<.  About $30 a
part .

 

From: Paul Birkel [mailto:pbir...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2015 12:58 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: The Structure of SYSTEM/360 (Blaauw & Brooks, et al.)

 

This was the five-part seminal description of the S/360, published in the
IBM Systems Journal, Volume 3, Number 2.

 

I've very much like to read all five parts.  Does anyone have a copy that
might be shared?

 

Thank you,

 

paul

Re: Decisions you regret (classiccmp related)

[Lee Courtney]

About 10-15 years ago a pristine multi-rack fully stuffed HP1000 F-Series
with disc, 1/2 tape, and rack of analog I/O (maybe 2250?) at AuctionBDI. I
didn't have room. Checked the following week and no-one had bid on it and
it was gone, probably scrapped. Minimum bid was $25. :-(

Even worse was the year I graduated from college (1979) my University had
two 1620s in storage, a Model I and II with software, spare packs (for the
Mod-II) they couldn't give away. So young and foolish, with no fore-sight,
was I. :-(**3

Lee C.

On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 9:28 AM, william degnan 
wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Al Kossow  wrote:
>
> > The biggest one, which started me down the path of software preservation,
> > was giving away all the DECtapes that were on UW-Milwaukee's TSS/8 system
> > to Gary Coleman in Cleveland.
> >
>
> What you talkin' bout Willis?
>
> I thought they filmed Different Strokes in LA.
>
> --
> Bill
>



-- 
Lee Courtney
+1-650-704-3934 cell

Re: Decisions you regret (classiccmp related)

[Al Kossow]

On 12/17/15 10:44 AM, Lee Courtney wrote:

About 10-15 years ago a pristine multi-rack fully stuffed HP1000 F-Series
with disc, 1/2 tape, and rack of analog I/O (maybe 2250?) at AuctionBDI.


I have it in storage in San Carlos.

RE: The Structure of SYSTEM/360 (Blaauw & Brooks, et al.)

[Dave G4UGM]

If no one else manages to get these please e-mail me off list.

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Paul
Birkel
> Sent: 17 December 2015 18:41
> To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
> 
> Subject: RE: The Structure of SYSTEM/360 (Blaauw & Brooks, et al.)
> 
> I find that Parts 1 and 2 appear as Chapters 43 & 44 in "Computer
> Structures: Readings and Examples" (Bell & Newell; 1971), but that seems
to
> be it for public availability.  For those chapters, see:
> http://research.microsoft.com/en-
> us/um/people/gbell/CGB%20Files/Computer%20S
> tructures%20Readings%20and%20Examples%201971.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Otherwise prepare to be confronted by an IEEE pay-wall :-<.  About $30 a
> part .
> 
> 
> 
> From: Paul Birkel [mailto:pbir...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2015 12:58 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: The Structure of SYSTEM/360 (Blaauw & Brooks, et al.)
> 
> 
> 
> This was the five-part seminal description of the S/360, published in the
IBM
> Systems Journal, Volume 3, Number 2.
> 
> 
> 
> I've very much like to read all five parts.  Does anyone have a copy that
might
> be shared?
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> 
> 
> paul

Re: Decisions you regret

[mark]

From: "j...@cimmeri.com" 
Subject: Re: Decisions you regret


m...@markesystems.com wrote:


Yep.  Among the things that I have
given away (to Goodwill, or possibly
Salvation Army) - all in running
condition:



I'm going to go shoot myself now.
~~

   I'm curious, why were these given to
a Goodwill / Salvation Army of all
places?   These places don't have the
first clue of what to do with items like
these.. and they tend to be overwhelmed
with stuff anyway.   Not everything goes
out for sale.


My reasons at the time:
- All equipment was pretty much at its minimum value-wise
- It could still be priced relatively highly for tax deduction reasons
- I was very space constrained, and not using it at the time
- I'd just gotten married (see "Spousal unit", in a later post)

None of them good enough in hindsight for the value that equipment would 
have now, either to me or others.


Damn - too bad I pawned that old Colt Paterson - I bet it would be worth 
something by now...

~~
Mark Moulding

Re: WTB: PDP-11/03 front bezel

[Jacob Ritorto]

I have a complete, unpopulated 11/03 chassis if you'd be interested in
trading for some number of unibus and q-bus modules on my wish list -
looking for scsi interfaces, ethernet, working -15v h745 bricks and a Micro
PDP11 power supply.  Have any stuff like this?

thx
jake


On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Pontus Pihlgren 
wrote:

> Hi
>
> It's a longshot. But recently I aquired two BA11-N. One is just the cage
> and power supply. Looks just like this:
>
>
> http://www.ricomputermuseum.org/_/rsrc/1300059803599/Home/equipment/dec-pdp-11-03/DEC_PDP-11_03-inside.jpg
>
> The other came with mounting box but no front panel. I would like to
> make it complete with the white front bezel seen here:
>
> http://hampage.hu/pdp11/kepek/11-03.jpg
>
> Does anyone have one for sale?
>
> The greyish plastic arround the front panel would be a bonus since mine
> got a small crack in it.
>
> Regards,
> Pontus.
>

Re: Decisions you regret

[devin davison]

I Volunteer constantly at the salvation army looking for such things to
show up.
The local salvation army office is a mess. Anything remotely heavy looking
is scrapped if they do not know what it is. They would rather have $5 in
hand for scrap rather than try to find out what something is, what it is
worth, and trying to find someone that will buy it, and then they wonder
why they cant pay the bills at the end of the month. Goodwill is a bit
different, everything gets collected and sent to a main sorting facility
(ive never been in there), i imagine it is a similar story though, a big
scrap pile full of all the old machines i could ever want, on their way to
be scrapped because they do not want to bother selling them. I have tried
to get into the goodwill sorting place a couple of times. They are not too
friendly.They want thier scrap money, and they do not want people looking
around. Alot of interesting stuff gets sent in to salvation and gets
scrapped. It is apparent they do not plan to hire me, i try to make it
known that I am the guy that buys all the old computer stuff, so at least
they give me a call if something really interesting gets sent in. Ive
gotten some pretty neat old ibm stuff, disk packs, big floppys, etc but
nothing anywhere close to a hp 1000.

--Devin


On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 2:32 PM,  wrote:

> From: "j...@cimmeri.com" 
> Subject: Re: Decisions you regret
>
> m...@markesystems.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Yep.  Among the things that I have
>>> given away (to Goodwill, or possibly
>>> Salvation Army) - all in running
>>> condition:
>>>
>> 
>>
>> I'm going to go shoot myself now.
>> ~~
>>
>>I'm curious, why were these given to
>> a Goodwill / Salvation Army of all
>> places?   These places don't have the
>> first clue of what to do with items like
>> these.. and they tend to be overwhelmed
>> with stuff anyway.   Not everything goes
>> out for sale.
>>
>
> My reasons at the time:
> - All equipment was pretty much at its minimum value-wise
> - It could still be priced relatively highly for tax deduction reasons
> - I was very space constrained, and not using it at the time
> - I'd just gotten married (see "Spousal unit", in a later post)
>
> None of them good enough in hindsight for the value that equipment would
> have now, either to me or others.
>
> Damn - too bad I pawned that old Colt Paterson - I bet it would be worth
> something by now...
> ~~
> Mark Moulding
>
>

Another apple II+ repair

[Terry Stewart]

For anyone interested, here's another repair writeup. I didn't keep as good
a notes as I should have on this one and the memory (my memory!) is of
little help.  If I'm going write these things up I really should do it
straight afterwards!  Anyway, the board lives now.  It's something I could
never have diagnosed just from chip swapping.
http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2015-12-05-repairing-an-appleII+-board.htm

I did learn that it's possible for the machine to boot to BASIC even with
faulty RAM in the first row, something that I didn't think was possible.
Depends on the nature of the fault I guess.

Terry (Tez)

Re: Mystery IC: Allen Bradley 314B102

[Tothwolf]

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015, Mike Ross wrote:

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 4:59 AM, tony duell  wrote:

This board does not look that complicated and all the ICs have known 
numbers on them (mostly TTL logic). If it were mine I'd trace out the 
schematic.


That's true and possible. I'm in two minds on this thing:

- intention was to rip all this out and convert it to a full I/O serial 
terminal, using an Arduino-based setup that Lawrence Wilkinson has 
already built and tested: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ljw/sets/72157632841492802/with/9201494189/
- all the keyboard contacts are already in there, Western I/O just cut 
the IBM wires off when they ripped the IBM guts out and converted it 
printer-only. I'd like to figure out the interface that's presently in 
it, just to check out the mechanism, and for that 'ah ha!' moment :)
- but I don't want to spend any significant time on it if I'm just going 
to rip it all out.


- but, although the Western I/O conversion 'butchered' a perfectly good 
IBM 2970, it IS a rare representative of that era, when all kinds of 
Selectric conversions were commonplace. So perhaps, as a nod to that 
era, it should be left as-is, as a preserved example? What say people? 
I've seen posts on old lists where people have referred to buying these 
back in the day - converted Selectrics I mean - and seeing 'mountains' 
of them in warehouses. They were once common. Where have they all gone? 
Is mine the *only* survivor from those mountains of 3rd-party backstreet 
conversions? Does anyone else have any?


I have one of these print-only IBM Selectrics that I got along with a 
TRS-80 model 1 which may very well be one of these modified IBM 2970 
Reservation Terminals. It was interfaced to the TRS-80 via a "Micromatic 
80" interface connected to the computer's parallel port. From what I 
remember, it has both a serial and parallel input and has a third 
connector which the Selectric connects to using a card-edge type 
connector.


The Micromatic 80 itself seems to mainly be made of 7400 series logic 
chips but may also have a few proms.


If there is sufficient interest, I could strip the parts from the 
interface board and scan the bare board (double sided). It is already in 
my to-do project queue anyway as I was planning to replace the 3 edge wipe 
IC sockets (most of the ICs are soldered directly to the board) and the 
original aluminum electrolytic capacitors.

Re: Decisions you regret

[Peter Cetinski]

> On Dec 17, 2015, at 4:40 PM, devin davison  wrote:
> 
> I Volunteer constantly at the salvation army looking for such things to
> show up.

I love your dedication to the hobby.  Working at the Salvation Army just to get 
an "in" on the vintage computers.  Brilliant!

Re: WTB: PDP-11/03 front bezel

[steven]

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: WTB: PDP-11/03 front bezel
From:"Rod Smallwood" 
Date:Fri, December 18, 2015 3:17 am
To:  "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" 

--

>
>
> On 17/12/2015 16:53, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:
>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 09:30:23AM +1000, ste...@malikoff.com wrote:
>>> I've been after one for a while, too. I was very kindly offered one from a 
>>> listmember who would have
>>> taken it off his own machine, but I felt that would have deprived that box.
>>>
>> I'd be divided if I'd get that offer.
>>
>>> I've tried DEC resellers but no luck there.
>>>
>>> If I can get accurate measurements I think i should be able to
>>> knock up a CAD drawing and construct a passable replica from
>>> styrene sheet, a material with which I am very familiar
>>> working with. I have a number of large sheets of it in
>>> different thicknesses already.
>>>
>>> So if anyone can take some photos and measurements for me I'll
>>> add this project to the pile :)
>> :-)
>>
>> /P
> Thats interesting.
> I had  always wondered about what bezels are made of.
> The one off my 8/e seems too heavy for aluminium.
> It must be diecast something  or other.
>
>   I also thought of maybe making a silicone mould and use casting resin.
>
> Rod Smallwood


I've only seen the 11/05 bezel close up - and assuming others are the same - 
looks to
me a heavier sturdier alloy than Mazak (Zamak in the USA), but I guess it could 
be.

The bezel could be cast in resin, but resin can shrink and distort a bit. 
Fibreglass
with a white gelcoat layer could be laid up in a silicone mould too, if care 
was taken not
to bend the silcone after the laying up the gelcoat. Reminds me of the time I 
helped build
fourteen kayaks at our house for a scout troop many years ago, I will never 
forget the
smell of polyester resin and the millions of chopped strand glass fibres 
getting everywhere!

A vacform (probably styrene) as proposed for the PiDP-11 would also be a good 
consideration.

I think any of these would look pretty good after spraypainting.

Steve.

Re: Decisions you regret (classiccmp related)

[Paxton Hoag]

I have two big regrets (lots of little ones). the first was a Litton 1251 I
got in the early 1980s for $25 from the State of Oregon. 5 2X3' components,
control, printer, tape reader/ punch and two 200K drum memory units. Played
with for a while and scrapped it when aluminum was bringing 80 cents per
pound in the late 1980s. Did inventory for the state but all I could get it
to do was printout ASCII art. Replaced it with a Xerox 820.

The second big regret was scrapping an Alto in the early 90s. I just didn't
recognize it and let it go to scrap. It was part of a large lot we got from
Intel in 91 0r 92 that included lots of development systems, II, III, IV.
In that lot were an Alto and a Tektronix Magnolia which I didn't recognize
till years later. Without skins they were difficult to identify and the
Alto terminal was so strange. I was more interested in the 8 Xerox 8010
Dandelions in the lot..and the intel development systems. When I
finally saw a picture of an Alto  I realized we had the complete system.

Paxton Hoag
Astoria, OR
USA

Re: Decisions you regret Was: Mystery IC: Allen Bradley

[Mike Boyle]

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 7:41 PM,  wrote:

> My Dad used to bring home bits of dead System/360 from work, my brother
> and I
> would of course pull this stuff to bits 'just to see what was inside'.
> Printer trains, SLT cards, a pile of SMS cards from his earlier workings
> with
> IBM 650s, all sorts of bits of electronic and electromechanical items. Dad
> turned a punched-card sorter chassis into a workshop bench, I recall it was
> dark charcoal grey and had a pull-out bucket on the front, not sure if
> that was
> for cards or chads.
>
> One thing we had fun with was one of those 2260 delay line units recently
> discussed here. Inside the box was a beautifully coiled length of
> Nichrome(?)
> wire, zooiiinnggg that was out, played with by stretching and tapping on
> the wire,
> and most likely thrown out.
>
> I had a complete General Automation SPC-16 minicomputer in a 6' rack,
> ASR33,
> two Documation card readers, disk packs with DBOS I think. This took up
> quite a
> bit of room in my flat so I sold it off very very cheaply, practically
> gave it
> away. Wish I had it now, of course. Along with my S-100 system, that went
> to the
> same buyer, a uni student I recall.
>
> Dad brought home a disposed-of 2741 I/O Selectric we were going to
> interface to our
> F-8. Never got done so it sat in the cupboard for decades. It disappeared
> when my
> folks moved interstate.
> Recently I found the platen from it in their garden shed. It still has the
> terminal-
> style knobs on the ends, like on the 1052 terminal but grey instead of
> blue. I'll
> save that for the time I get around to looking at some form of Selectric
> I/O, or
> at least as a keepsake of the stuff we had :)
>
> Steve.
>
>


-- 

The word decision I have ever regret is back in 1993 I was living in Oregon
working in the lumber Industry but all the " TREE HUGGER's"
Were shutting down most of the lumber Co. So I got a job offer in OKC from
a friend who said " YOU HAVE TO GET INTO THE OIL INDUSTRY!!! and I left
behind my Mint Apple IIc with the original mini screen! That piece of
machinery IMO was on of the best Apple products of all time! I remember on
payday after I went and payed all my bills on "BILL DAY" as I called it I
used to go to the thrift store that was overflowing with old computer stuff
I have seen many of the older computer's that were mentioned here in the
newsgroup unfortunately at the time I had no clue what I was even looking
at in fact back then I just thought they were " PART OF A BROKEN TV OR SOME
OTHER PIECE OF ELECTRONIC TRASH lol Oh BOY I was so very wrong! So very
wrong! If I could have known then what I have learned from the great group
of people here in *cctalk@classiccmp.org * I would
be sitting on a gold mine! But it's just like my Adopted father said the
reason I said adopted is that my parents were late into there 50's when
they adopted me so anyway He told me one time he had an old model T ford he
said it broke down on him on a very bad day so he just pushed it off the
side of the road and walked off and just left it, Just think how much it
would be worth now fully restored. It's funny how we do that as younger
people. Shoot even some of my childhood toys like I have a Bobs Big-Boy
piggy bank thats worth quite a bit to BB-B collectors.




*Honda ATC 3wheeler's for
LIFE!!!   Have
a blessed day!*

Re: Another apple II+ repair

[Mike Boyle]

On Dec 17, 2015 4:40 PM, "Terry Stewart"  wrote:
>
> For anyone interested, here's another repair writeup. I didn't keep as
good
> a notes as I should have on this one and the memory (my memory!) is of
> little help.  If I'm going write these things up I really should do it
> straight afterwards!  Anyway, the board lives now.  It's something I could
> never have diagnosed just from chip swapping.
>
http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2015-12-05-repairing-an-appleII+-board.htm
>
> I did learn that it's possible for the machine to boot to BASIC even with
> faulty RAM in the first row, something that I didn't think was possible.
> Depends on the nature of the fault I guess.
>
> Terry (Tez)

Thanks Terry so much for the helpful blog link!

Re: IBM PS/2 Model 70 HARD DRIVE NEEDED

[Gary Sparkes]

I never saw this post, but did end up with a 30MB. I will take another if
available though.

On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Daniel Snyder 
wrote:

> Still looking?
> - Original Message - From: "Gary Sparkes" 
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>; ; "
> blab...@hacdc.org" ; "HacDC Members Discussion List" <
> memb...@hacdc.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:31 PM
> Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 70 HARD DRIVE NEEDED
>
>
>
> Got a hard down situation and need to re-install/recreate the BBS system I
>> had running.
>>
>> HDD makes swishy noises when shaken, haven't tried stirring yet.
>>
>> I /guess/ a bootable MCA SCSI card would work too... ;)
>>
>> I had the 160MB drive, but anything above 30 would work - i guess i'll
>> just
>> have to use a SCSI Drive for the file storage area once i get an MCA SCSI
>> card 
>>
>> --
>> Gary G. Sparkes Jr.
>> KB3HAG
>>
>
>


-- 
Gary G. Sparkes Jr.
KB3HAG

Re: IBM PS/2 Model 70 HARD DRIVE NEEDED

[COURYHOUSE]

did  all mod 70s have SCSI  drives?
 
Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 12/17/2015 10:54:50 P.M. US Mountain Standard Tim,  
mok...@gmail.com writes:

I never  saw this post, but did end up with a 30MB. I will take another if
available  though.

On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Daniel Snyder  
wrote:

> Still looking?
>  - Original Message - From: "Gary Sparkes"  
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and  Off-Topic Posts" <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>;  ; "
> blab...@hacdc.org"  ; "HacDC Members Discussion List" <
>  memb...@hacdc.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:31 PM
>  Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 70 HARD DRIVE NEEDED
>
>
>
>  Got a hard down situation and need to re-install/recreate the BBS system 
 I
>> had running.
>>
>> HDD makes swishy noises  when shaken, haven't tried stirring yet.
>>
>> I /guess/ a  bootable MCA SCSI card would work too... ;)
>>
>> I had the  160MB drive, but anything above 30 would work - i guess i'll
>>  just
>> have to use a SCSI Drive for the file storage area once i get  an MCA 
SCSI
>> card 
>>
>> --
>> Gary  G. Sparkes Jr.
>> KB3HAG
>>
>
>


--  
Gary G. Sparkes  Jr.
KB3HAG

Re: IBM PS/2 Model 70 HARD DRIVE NEEDED

[Guy Sotomayor]

No they weren't SCSI.  Those were only through either a
"spock" or "tribble" MCA card.  Those were the code names.
I have *no* idea what the "real" IBM designation was.  ;-)

The desktop PS/2 machines (50, 50Z, 70, etc) were all
designed with robotic assembly in mind (that's why there
are no screws or cables in those machines).  To accomplish
that the HDD was a non-standard connector.

TTFN - Guy

On 12/17/15 10:30 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote:

did  all mod 70s have SCSI  drives?
  
Ed#
  
  
In a message dated 12/17/2015 10:54:50 P.M. US Mountain Standard Tim,

mok...@gmail.com writes:

I never  saw this post, but did end up with a 30MB. I will take another if
available  though.

On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Daniel Snyder  
wrote:


Still looking?
  - Original Message - From: "Gary Sparkes"  
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and  Off-Topic Posts" <
cctalk@classiccmp.org>;  ; "
blab...@hacdc.org"  ; "HacDC Members Discussion List" <
  memb...@hacdc.org>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:31 PM
  Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 70 HARD DRIVE NEEDED



  Got a hard down situation and need to re-install/recreate the BBS system

  I

had running.

HDD makes swishy noises  when shaken, haven't tried stirring yet.

I /guess/ a  bootable MCA SCSI card would work too... ;)

I had the  160MB drive, but anything above 30 would work - i guess i'll
  just
have to use a SCSI Drive for the file storage area once i get  an MCA

SCSI

card 

--
Gary  G. Sparkes Jr.
KB3HAG





--
Gary G. Sparkes  Jr.
KB3HAG

Re: IBM PS/2 Model 70 HARD DRIVE NEEDED

[COURYHOUSE]

OK Yea they were odd inside   we  have  tower here..  think it is a 70
and a 17" or 19 inch MONSTER ibm monitor  ( alas  B/W).
 
 Years and Years  ago  someone  dumped a bunch at a  thrift shop.. lots of 
them!
neat here  I wish I had kept more of them... I  kept   the  tower and let 
the desk tops  go  you see seldom any of these  around here. We  also 
kept a LAPTOP IBM with dual  floppies  and a odd plasma screen all in one  IBM 
computer... 
and  we have an IBM that  is like  the Compaq Portable and of   course  a  
first PC  ( where do I get Charlie Chapman  look-a-like  to have next to 
it!?)
 
 
Ed#   _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org)  
 
 
In a message dated 12/18/2015 12:08:25 A.M. US Mountain Standard Tim,  
g...@shiresoft.com writes:

No they  weren't SCSI.  Those were only through either a
"spock" or "tribble"  MCA card.  Those were the code names.
I have *no* idea what the "real"  IBM designation was.  ;-)

The desktop PS/2 machines (50, 50Z, 70,  etc) were all
designed with robotic assembly in mind (that's why  there
are no screws or cables in those machines).  To  accomplish
that the HDD was a non-standard connector.

TTFN -  Guy

On 12/17/15 10:30 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote:
> did   all mod 70s have SCSI  drives?
>   
>  Ed#
>   
>   
> In a message dated  12/17/2015 10:54:50 P.M. US Mountain Standard Tim,
> mok...@gmail.com  writes:
>
> I never  saw this post, but did end up with a  30MB. I will take another 
if
> available  though.
>
>  On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Daniel Snyder   

> wrote:
>
>> Still  looking?
>>   - Original Message - From: "Gary  Sparkes"  
>> To: "General Discussion:  On-Topic and  Off-Topic Posts" <
>>  cctalk@classiccmp.org>;  ;  "
>> blab...@hacdc.org"  ; "HacDC  Members Discussion 
List" <
>>memb...@hacdc.org>
>> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:31  PM
>>   Subject: IBM PS/2 Model 70 HARD DRIVE  NEEDED
>>
>>
>>
>>   Got a hard  down situation and need to re-install/recreate the BBS  
system
>   I
>>> had  running.
>>>
>>> HDD makes swishy noises  when  shaken, haven't tried stirring yet.
>>>
>>> I /guess/  a  bootable MCA SCSI card would work too...  ;)
>>>
>>> I had the  160MB drive, but anything  above 30 would work - i guess i'll
>>>just
>>> have to use a SCSI Drive for the file storage area once i  get  an MCA
> SCSI
>>> card  
>>>
>>> --
>>> Gary  G. Sparkes  Jr.
>>> KB3HAG
>>>
>>
>
>  --
> Gary G. Sparkes  Jr.
>  KB3HAG
>