OT: Migraine was RE: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with small ecli...
Used to get the headaches with no visuals, but wearing the correct glasses and keeping my screen clean seems to have solved that, but since then, like Dwight, I have had a couple of attacks of the "lightening lines" and blurred vision. The eye hospital tell me that this is an "ocular migraine" and I can concour its really strange and somewhat scary especially for the first time... Dave G4UGM > -Original Message- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of dwight > Sent: 25 September 2015 03:50 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: RE: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with > small ecli... > > I get the squiggly lines but no headache. > Strange stuff. > Dwight > > > > Subject: Re: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with > small ecli... > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > From: cu...@charter.net > > Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 23:59:39 -0500 > > > > On 9/22/2015 11:00 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote: > > > probably an artifact generated by my migraine this evening . > > > > > > > Ugh. Had some of those while I was in High School, complete with > > squiggly lines, often nausea and hours of intense pain. You have my > > sympathy. > > > > Then one day I started to get one while I was driving from home to the > > local music store. I pulled over, took a deep breath and (I kid you > > not) told myself no, you are not going to get a migraine, ain't gonna > > happen. It went away almost immediately, and I haven't had one since. > > Go figure. Almost certainly pure coincidence. [I wish that would work > > for everyone. Sigh.] > > > > JRJ >
Big Alphas available
Hi I need to make room for new goodies. So I'm offering two Alphas: * AlphaServer 2100 5/300 - Untested by me, good physical appearance. * DEC AXP 4000 - Was running when I picked it up. http://www.pdp8.se/bild/sthlm_haul/axps.jpg I can ship them, the probably need to go on a pallet. Regards, Pontus.
Re: OT: Migraine was RE: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal ...
I have tried the log the foods I eat and all the other routines to find a cure... was even willing to give up lobster if that was a trigger. Alas - so far, no solve. Ed# In a message dated 9/25/2015 12:22:15 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, dave.g4...@gmail.com writes: Used to get the headaches with no visuals, but wearing the correct glasses and keeping my screen clean seems to have solved that, but since then, like Dwight, I have had a couple of attacks of the "lightening lines" and blurred vision. The eye hospital tell me that this is an "ocular migraine" and I can concour its really strange and somewhat scary especially for the first time... Dave G4UGM > -Original Message- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of dwight > Sent: 25 September 2015 03:50 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: RE: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with > small ecli... > > I get the squiggly lines but no headache. > Strange stuff. > Dwight > > > > Subject: Re: would like to find blue dg et head looking terminal to go with > small ecli... > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > From: cu...@charter.net > > Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 23:59:39 -0500 > > > > On 9/22/2015 11:00 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote: > > > probably an artifact generated by my migraine this evening . > > > > > > > Ugh. Had some of those while I was in High School, complete with > > squiggly lines, often nausea and hours of intense pain. You have my > > sympathy. > > > > Then one day I started to get one while I was driving from home to the > > local music store. I pulled over, took a deep breath and (I kid you > > not) told myself no, you are not going to get a migraine, ain't gonna > > happen. It went away almost immediately, and I haven't had one since. > > Go figure. Almost certainly pure coincidence. [I wish that would work > > for everyone. Sigh.] > > > > JRJ >
Re: RL01, RL02, RK06, RK07 cable differences
-Oorspronkelijk bericht- From: Paul Anderson Sent: Friday, September 25, 2015 8:17 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts ; cct...@vax-11.org Subject: RL01, RL02, RK06, RK07 cable differences Does anyone have both of these that I can pick their brains? Thanks, Paul As far as I know, the difference is one or two wires. That is, the RL01/RL02 cable has less wires than the RK06/RK07 cable. I have both, I could measure it, but that would have to wait a few days. - Henk
RE: RL01, RL02, RK06, RK07 cable differences
> > Does anyone have both of these that I can pick their brains? Yes. The RK06/07 cable connects all pins. The RL01/02 one connects only those used by the RL drives. I doubt the characteristic impedance is different as the terminators are the same. -tony
Re: assembler, disassembler for Intel 8089?
>> And I'd still have to write a disassembler. If someone can point me at the assembly and machine language specs for the thing, I can add it to my disassembler /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: Backups [was Re: Is tape dead?]
On Thu, 24 Sep 2015, Chuck Guzis wrote: On 09/24/2015 04:30 PM, Alexander Schreiber wrote: IMHO, you want to buy at one generation below the current max capacity on the assumption that they ironed out the bugs on that one. So, if you were to move up from the 500GB SATA drives to the "next generation", which would you choose? I've got a number of WD Blue 1TB drives in use. They're very good drives. You can find them for around $50 each too. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
Acquiring a bunch of Lisp Machines
Just stumbled across this. I don't know what more to the story there is. http://kremlin.enterprises/post/129364443055/your-code-is-so-bad-we-had-to-make-etclocal -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)
Re: Regarding Manuals
> On Sep 24, 2015, at 6:12 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: > >> ... >> I'm getting reasonable results with 4bpp indexed color .pngs > > Several RSX manuals have important color coding. Some manuals have both > black, red and blue text. Others have sections with a light red or gray > background. > > I have paper versions of them. Unfortunately, all scanned manuals I've seen > have been plain b/w. Also, bitmaps, and not OCRed. :-( OCR is fine but only if the bitmap image is available, OR if the resulting text is thoroughly cleaned up. No OCR program can produce accurate text from scanned documents, even if the scans are good quality. And not all scans are. paul
Re: Acquiring a bunch of Lisp Machines
He's going to find it rough going in trying to get the machines running with new/empty disks. :-( It's one of the fears that I have for my 3620 and 3640's in that I'd like to have replacement disks but without the manufacturing mojo, there's no way to put Genera and the bootstrap and uCode on a blank disk. TTFN - Guy On 9/25/15 7:09 AM, Liam Proven wrote: Just stumbled across this. I don't know what more to the story there is. http://kremlin.enterprises/post/129364443055/your-code-is-so-bad-we-had-to-make-etclocal
Re: RL01, RL02, RK06, RK07 cable differences
On 9/25/2015 7:24 AM, tony duell wrote: >> >> Does anyone have both of these that I can pick their brains? > > Yes. > > The RK06/07 cable connects all pins. The RL01/02 one connects only those used > by the RL drives. I doubt the characteristic impedance is different as the > terminators > are the same. > > -tony > > Actually, the terminators for the RL and RK06/07 drives are *identical*, part number 70-12293-xx (The RL manual has no XX, the RK06/7 manual as 0-0 for XX, but no worries, that is just a revision number) . Darn good thing, too, because the terminators have no markings on them. ;) The wire in my RK06/RK07 cables has part number 1700051-00 on it. (Not a reliable indicator - see below). According to the manual, the RK06/RK07 cable assembly part numbers are 70-12292-LL where LL (length) may be 8, 12, 25 or 40. All of my RK06/RK07 cables have the part number. The wire in my RL cables is marked two different ways. One cable has the DEC part number for the cable itself (70-12122-10), and the wire is part number 1700051-01 (same as the RK cable!), and is marked AWM ... 2464. Others, which have no DEC part number on either the cable or the wire, has AWM ... JUDD Wire Div. Style 2576 on the wire. The wire I have on my RK06/07 cables is smooth and stiff, whereas the wire in the RL cables tends to be more "bumpy" and more flexible and shinier. However, given the wire part number 1700051-xx appears on both kinds, and is not shiny, wire used is itself not a reliable indicator. The DEC part numbers for the RL cables themselves apparently varies: BC20J-XX DEC part number 70-12122-10 - RL11, RLV11 BC80J-20 - RL8A BC80M-6 - RLV12 I would say that if an unmarked cable is 6, 10 or 20 feet long, and flexible it is mostly like an RL cable. If the cable is 8, 12, 25, or 40 feet long it is probably an RK06/07 cable. JRJ
RE: assembler, disassembler for Intel 8089?
Someplace in my piles of stuff, I may have an EPROM '89. At least I think it was an 89. If I find it, your welcome to it Eric. Dwight
US source for SCSI2SD boards
from the vintage-computer list http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showthread.php?49260-SCSI2SD-microSD-bundles-in-stock-and-ready-to-ship-from-USA http://www.ebay.com/itm/191700123328
Re: assembler, disassembler for Intel 8089?
On 9/24/15 8:45 PM, Eric Smith wrote: On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 8:51 PM, dwight wrote: You just may have to write your own. Most don't even know what a 8089 is. That's looking likely. What I/O board are you trying to figure out, Eric? A bunch of different manufacturers early Multibus Winchester controller boards used them.
Re: Regarding Manuals
> From: Jerome H. Fine > I have ... some PDP-11 hardware manuals, but probably most are already > in PDF files at bitsavers. Any chance you could check to see if you have something that's not online? If you have more than a few, you probably do have some that aren't online. If you whip up a list of what you've got, I'd be happy to check it for you. Noel
Re: Regarding Manuals
On 9/25/15 9:57 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote: If you whip up a list of what you've got, I'd be happy to check it for you. You REALLY want to check what Alan Frisbie has done this past year before spending a lot of time on this. I see in alt.sys.pdp11 that he just listed an RT 5.6 manual set on eBay. It is highly unlikely he would be selling it if it hasn't already been scanned.
RE: RL01, RL02, RK06, RK07 cable differences
> > > The RK06/07 cable connects all pins. The RL01/02 one connects only those > > used > > by the RL drives. I doubt the characteristic impedance is different as the > > terminators > > are the same. > > > > -tony > > Actually, the terminators for the RL and RK06/07 drives are *identical*, > part number 70-12293-xx (The RL manual has no XX, the RK06/7 manual as > 0-0 for XX, but no worries, that is just a revision number) . Bad wording on my part, but that's what I meant. There was only one type of terminator, it was used for both the RL's and RK06/07. -tony
Re: Regarding Manuals
On 9/24/15 11:16 PM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote: What is the best way to proceed, I can make an inventory and crosscheck with what is on bitsavers. After that I can put things in box if you want to pay for shipping, I'm afraid I have no means or time to scan. Sounds good. Shipping would be to Mountain View, CA 94043 Email me to work out the details.
Re: Acquiring a bunch of Lisp Machines
I would call that like ... a frustratingly nice score, LOL. Lots of Symbolics equipment saved which is a huge plus, but if it were me, I'd rather have one Ivory machine that ran, versus a whole pallet of 3620s and 3640s with bad drives ... it'll be interesting to see if he's ever able to get one of them up and running. Funny he does not recognize the famous VSXXX-AA! One of the best mice ever made, IMO :O Best, Sean On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > He's going to find it rough going in trying to get the machines running > with new/empty disks. :-( It's one > of the fears that I have for my 3620 and 3640's in that I'd like to have > replacement disks but without the > manufacturing mojo, there's no way to put Genera and the bootstrap and > uCode on a blank disk. > > TTFN - Guy > > > On 9/25/15 7:09 AM, Liam Proven wrote: > >> Just stumbled across this. I don't know what more to the story there is. >> >> >> http://kremlin.enterprises/post/129364443055/your-code-is-so-bad-we-had-to-make-etclocal >> >> >
Re: Big Alphas available
Very nice looking set of DEC 4000 machines! I'd definitely be tempted to make an offer on one of they were in the US... Best, Sean On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 3:02 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote: > Hi > > I need to make room for new goodies. So I'm offering two Alphas: > > * AlphaServer 2100 5/300 > - Untested by me, good physical appearance. > > * DEC AXP 4000 > - Was running when I picked it up. > http://www.pdp8.se/bild/sthlm_haul/axps.jpg > > I can ship them, the probably need to go on a pallet. > > Regards, > Pontus. >
Re: Big Alphas available
Out of curiousity, what is your post area code, I'm curious what shipping would amount to. /P On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 11:18:22AM -0400, Sean Caron wrote: > Very nice looking set of DEC 4000 machines! I'd definitely be tempted to > make an offer on one of they were in the US... > > Best, > > Sean > > > On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 3:02 AM, Pontus Pihlgren > wrote: > > > Hi > > > > I need to make room for new goodies. So I'm offering two Alphas: > > > > * AlphaServer 2100 5/300 > > - Untested by me, good physical appearance. > > > > * DEC AXP 4000 > > - Was running when I picked it up. > > http://www.pdp8.se/bild/sthlm_haul/axps.jpg > > > > I can ship them, the probably need to go on a pallet. > > > > Regards, > > Pontus. > >
Re: Big Alphas available
Hi Pontus, I'm in Ypsilanti, MI 48198 if you want to use that as a data point ... I suppose I'd be curious, too (although certainly out of my budget). Best, Sean On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote: > Out of curiousity, what is your post area code, I'm curious what > shipping would amount to. > > /P > > On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 11:18:22AM -0400, Sean Caron wrote: > > Very nice looking set of DEC 4000 machines! I'd definitely be tempted to > > make an offer on one of they were in the US... > > > > Best, > > > > Sean > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 3:02 AM, Pontus Pihlgren > > wrote: > > > > > Hi > > > > > > I need to make room for new goodies. So I'm offering two Alphas: > > > > > > * AlphaServer 2100 5/300 > > > - Untested by me, good physical appearance. > > > > > > * DEC AXP 4000 > > > - Was running when I picked it up. > > > http://www.pdp8.se/bild/sthlm_haul/axps.jpg > > > > > > I can ship them, the probably need to go on a pallet. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Pontus. > > > >
Re: RL01, RL02, RK06, RK07 cable differences
On 9/25/2015 12:24 PM, tony duell wrote: >> >>> The RK06/07 cable connects all pins. The RL01/02 one connects only those >>> used >>> by the RL drives. I doubt the characteristic impedance is different as the >>> terminators >>> are the same. >>> >>> -tony > > >> >> Actually, the terminators for the RL and RK06/07 drives are *identical*, >> part number 70-12293-xx (The RL manual has no XX, the RK06/7 manual as >> 0-0 for XX, but no worries, that is just a revision number) . > > Bad wording on my part, but that's what I meant. There was only one type of > terminator, it was used for both the RL's and RK06/07. > > -tony > D'oh. Actually, lazy *reading* on *my* part. D'oh. JRJ
Re: Acquiring a bunch of Lisp Machines
On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 8:01 AM, Sean Caron wrote: > I would call that like ... a frustratingly nice score, LOL. Lots of > Symbolics equipment saved which is a huge plus, but if it were me, I'd > rather have one Ivory machine that ran, versus a whole pallet of 3620s and > 3640s with bad drives ... it'll be interesting to see if he's ever able to > get one of them up and running. > > Funny he does not recognize the famous VSXXX-AA! One of the best mice ever > made, IMO :O > > Best, > > Sean > > > On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > > > He's going to find it rough going in trying to get the machines running > > with new/empty disks. :-( It's one > > of the fears that I have for my 3620 and 3640's in that I'd like to have > > replacement disks but without the > > manufacturing mojo, there's no way to put Genera and the bootstrap and > > uCode on a blank disk. > > > > TTFN - Guy > > > > > > On 9/25/15 7:09 AM, Liam Proven wrote: > > > >> Just stumbled across this. I don't know what more to the story there is. > >> > >> > >> > http://kremlin.enterprises/post/129364443055/your-code-is-so-bad-we-had-to-make-etclocal > >> > >> > > >
Re: Acquiring a bunch of Lisp Machines
On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 7:44 AM, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > He's going to find it rough going in trying to get the machines running > with new/empty disks. :-( It's one > of the fears that I have for my 3620 and 3640's in that I'd like to have > replacement disks but without the > manufacturing mojo, there's no way to put Genera and the bootstrap and > uCode on a blank disk. > > TTFN - Guy A colleague of mine and I tested David Gesswein's MFM emulator ( http://www.pdp8.net/mfm/mfm.shtml) in his 3620; it was able to capture a disk image from the 3620's MFM disk and successfully boot Genera from the image. So there is a solution, at least if you happen to have a system using MFM disks. (And an image or working disk to start from...) Now, an ESDI emulator... that would be nice to have :). - Josh > > > On 9/25/15 7:09 AM, Liam Proven wrote: > >> Just stumbled across this. I don't know what more to the story there is. >> >> >> http://kremlin.enterprises/post/129364443055/your-code-is-so-bad-we-had-to-make-etclocal >> >> >
Looking for some DEC-related spares..
I am currently sorting things out after a house move last year and getting my PDP11s back together. Unfortuantely there was some damage in the move [1] and I am currently looking for a source for the following : 1) 2 off the small screw-down feet used on the outriggers of the H960 rack. Not the larger ones under the rack, the little ones with the 3/8" A/F hexagon for a spanner. I have the outrigger castings, undamaged, but 2 of said feet got bent at right-angles (!) [2] 2) 2 off switch mechanisms for the PDP11/45 front panel. I have the toggles (thankfully), I need the switches. I think the 11/40 and 11/70 use the same swtiches. Probably C&K originally. [1] I have learnt the hard way. If you need to move classic computers do not use a removal company (this applies to anything else of any value). It is cheaper in the end to find 3 or so friends and give them 10K pounds/dollars each to help you with the move. [2] I asked said removal men if I should remove the outriggers. They told me not to bother. Looks like they tried to pivot the rack on those little feet (!). -tony
Re: RL01, RL02, RK06, RK07 cable differences
Thanks for the feedback everyone. The 17 class # should be the type of wire used in the cable, so maybe the -00 ans -01 is the difference . I'm just trying to sure weather or not the RL and RK cables are interchangeable. Sounds like the RK might work on the RL, but not the other way. I have plastic and metal terminators, and the same with the cables and was trying to remember if that had anything to do with it. Seems like we used to use the BC80 M and J for any controller when we had them. For whatever reason DEC replaced the 70-12122 with the BC21Z. Is the 70-12145 the electrical connector for the transition bracket, the metal mounting bracket, or the entire assembly? Thanks, Paul On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Jay Jaeger wrote: > On 9/25/2015 7:24 AM, tony duell wrote: > >> > >> Does anyone have both of these that I can pick their brains? > > > > Yes. > > > > The RK06/07 cable connects all pins. The RL01/02 one connects only those > used > > by the RL drives. I doubt the characteristic impedance is different as > the terminators > > are the same. > > > > -tony > > > > > > Actually, the terminators for the RL and RK06/07 drives are *identical*, > part number 70-12293-xx (The RL manual has no XX, the RK06/7 manual as > 0-0 for XX, but no worries, that is just a revision number) . > > Darn good thing, too, because the terminators have no markings on them. ;) > > The wire in my RK06/RK07 cables has part number 1700051-00 on it. (Not a > reliable indicator - see below). According to the manual, the RK06/RK07 > cable assembly part numbers are 70-12292-LL where LL (length) may be 8, > 12, 25 or 40. All of my RK06/RK07 cables have the part number. > > The wire in my RL cables is marked two different ways. One cable has > the DEC part number for the cable itself (70-12122-10), and the wire is > part number 1700051-01 (same as the RK cable!), and is marked AWM ... > 2464. Others, which have no DEC part number on either the cable or the > wire, has AWM ... JUDD Wire Div. Style 2576 on the wire. > > The wire I have on my RK06/07 cables is smooth and stiff, whereas the > wire in the RL cables tends to be more "bumpy" and more flexible and > shinier. However, given the wire part number 1700051-xx appears on both > kinds, and is not shiny, wire used is itself not a reliable indicator. > > The DEC part numbers for the RL cables themselves apparently varies: > > BC20J-XX DEC part number 70-12122-10 - RL11, RLV11 > BC80J-20 - RL8A > BC80M-6 - RLV12 > > I would say that if an unmarked cable is 6, 10 or 20 feet long, and > flexible it is mostly like an RL cable. If the cable is 8, 12, 25, or > 40 feet long it is probably an RK06/07 cable. > > JRJ >
Re: Regarding Manuals
On 2015-09-25 16:15, Paul Koning wrote: On Sep 24, 2015, at 6:12 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote: ... I'm getting reasonable results with 4bpp indexed color .pngs Several RSX manuals have important color coding. Some manuals have both black, red and blue text. Others have sections with a light red or gray background. I have paper versions of them. Unfortunately, all scanned manuals I've seen have been plain b/w. Also, bitmaps, and not OCRed. :-( OCR is fine but only if the bitmap image is available, OR if the resulting text is thoroughly cleaned up. No OCR program can produce accurate text from scanned documents, even if the scans are good quality. And not all scans are. Agreed that it always needs checking/cleanup. But I seriously would like to OCR the manuals, instead of dealing bit bitmaps. Johnny
Re: assembler, disassembler for Intel 8089?
On 09/25/2015 09:56 AM, Al Kossow wrote: What I/O board are you trying to figure out, Eric? A bunch of different manufacturers early Multibus Winchester controller boards used them. The 8089 was a good idea but badly timed and terribly underpowered. 2 channels of DMA, while a plain old 8257/8237 could give you 4. When the 80186 was being sampled, it too, had 2 channels of 20 bit DMA on-chip, so why fool with another chip. In the meantime, RAM prices were headed lower, so having private RAM for an I/O device (e.g. hard disk) made DMA less important. Good idea, wrong timing. When I approached "Fast Eddie" our Intel sales guy, he gave me a bunch of documentation on the 8089 and told me that it wasn't worth looking into for a design. This was about 1980. --Chuck
Re: Acquiring a bunch of Lisp Machines
On 09/25/2015 07:44 AM, Guy Sotomayor wrote: He's going to find it rough going in trying to get the machines running with new/empty disks. :-( It's one of the fears that I have for my 3620 and 3640's in that I'd like to have replacement disks but without the manufacturing mojo, there's no way to put Genera and the bootstrap and uCode on a blank disk. ...so how fast will one of those run FORTRAN? (Ducking and running for cover...) Chuck
Re: assembler, disassembler for Intel 8089?
Mouse wrote: > >> And I'd still have to write a disassembler. > > If someone can point me at the assembly and machine language specs for > the thing, I can add it to my disassembler > > /~\ The ASCII Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mo...@rodents-montreal.org > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ...found this: http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dl/Scans-000/Scans-0012901.pdf Regards, Holm -- Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583 www.tsht.de, i...@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
Re: Acquiring a bunch of Lisp Machines
On 9/25/2015 11:23 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote: ...so how fast will one of those run FORTRAN? (Ducking and running for cover...) Possibly as fast as it runs Forth or Perl. Two other write only languages. I like Lisp, but it still is write only to my eye. I have to really work over the listings every time I come back to them in all these cases. thanks Jim
Re: assembler, disassembler for Intel 8089?
MAME has an emulator and a disassembler since the Roland MT-32 uses this chip. David > On Sep 25, 2015, at 2:40 PM, Holm Tiffe wrote: > > Mouse wrote: > And I'd still have to write a disassembler. >> >> If someone can point me at the assembly and machine language specs for >> the thing, I can add it to my disassembler >> >> /~\ The ASCII Mouse >> \ / Ribbon Campaign >> X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org >> / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > > ...found this: > > http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dl/Scans-000/Scans-0012901.pdf > > Regards, > > Holm > > -- > Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, > Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583 > www.tsht.de, i...@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741 >
Re: cctech Digest, Vol 15, Issue 25
below... On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 1:00 PM, wrote: > - Forwarded message -- > From: Chuck Guzis > > http://www.eah-jena.de/~kleine/history/languages/ansi-x3dot9 > -1966-Fortran66.pdf > > The surprising thing is how spare the ANSI document is: 36 pages, > including appendices. > > Compare to, say, F95... > Chuck, I sent your comment to one of the guys on the current ANSI standard, his reply: "Fortran 2015 is currently 617 pages and will go some more before publication"
Re: Acquiring a bunch of Lisp Machines
On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Josh Dersch wrote: A colleague of mine and I tested David Gesswein's MFM emulator ( http://www.pdp8.net/mfm/mfm.shtml) in his 3620; it was able to capture a disk image from the 3620's MFM disk and successfully boot Genera from the image. So there is a solution, at least if you happen to have a system using MFM disks. (And an image or working disk to start from...) *loud cough* http://bit.ly/1WnK86K > > > > > > > > On 9/25/15 7:09 AM, Liam Proven wrote: > > > >> Just stumbled across this. I don't know what more to the story there is. > >> > >> > >> > http://kremlin.enterprises/post/129364443055/your-code-is-so-bad-we-had-to-make-etclocal > >> > >> > > > -- Ian Finder (206) 395-MIPS ian.fin...@gmail.com
Re: cctech Digest, Vol 15, Issue 25
On 09/25/2015 12:33 PM, Clem Cole wrote: "Fortran 2015 is currently 617 pages and will go some more before publication" It does make one curious to ask if *any* language has ever had a smaller manual/specification than any previous version. If the answer is "no", then we must have a new "law": "Languages and their documentation will become ever more voluminous and incomprehensible" --Chuck
Scheme specifications - Re: cctech Digest, Vol 15, Issue 25
On 2015-09-25 3:56 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: On 09/25/2015 12:33 PM, Clem Cole wrote: "Fortran 2015 is currently 617 pages and will go some more before publication" It does make one curious to ask if *any* language has ever had a smaller manual/specification than any previous version. Wasn't Scheme r7rs smaller and simpler than the widely derided Scheme r6rs? --Toby If the answer is "no", then we must have a new "law": "Languages and their documentation will become ever more voluminous and incomprehensible" --Chuck
Re: cctech Digest, Vol 15, Issue 25
On 9/25/2015 1:56 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: On 09/25/2015 12:33 PM, Clem Cole wrote: "Fortran 2015 is currently 617 pages and will go some more before publication" It does make one curious to ask if *any* language has ever had a smaller manual/specification than any previous version. If the answer is "no", then we must have a new "law": "Languages and their documentation will become ever more voluminous and incomprehensible" Does the include the source code too? --Chuck
Amstrad CPC6128 joins the rest home
It's a busy life nowadays but never too busy to kit out a newly-acquired Amstrad CPC6128. http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2015-09-24-amstrad6128-acquire-fix-and-stockup.htm for those who might be interested. It's the first time I've played with those 3 inch disks. Tez
Re: Regarding Manuals
On 9/25/15 11:06 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote: But I seriously would like to OCR the manuals WHICH manuals are you complaining about? I have been going back and applying OCR to the ones on bitsavers. Are there some in particular that you have a problem with?
Re: Acquiring a bunch of Lisp Machines
On 9/25/15 11:23 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote: ...so how fast will one of those run FORTRAN? as fast as their owners needed to.
Re: Acquiring a bunch of Lisp Machines
> ...so how fast will one of those run FORTRAN? The determined Real Programmer can write FORTRAN programs in any language. :) But LISP /is/ pushing the limits of that …
Re: Backups [was Re: Is tape dead?]
On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 11:33:59PM -0700, Chuck Guzis wrote: > On 09/24/2015 04:30 PM, Alexander Schreiber wrote: > > >IMHO, you want to buy at one generation below the current max > >capacity on the assumption that they ironed out the bugs on that > >one. > > So, if you were to move up from the 500GB SATA drives to the "next > generation", which would you choose? My last set of drives where WD Red 2TB drives. They are designed for NAS, so can deal with 24/7 operation. One word of warning on those: by default they spin down on idle (and spin up again on access). In a typical light loaded environment, that is likely to run up the load cycles sky high in a hurry. So I recommended completely disabling that (note: after changing this setting, the drives need a power cycle). Older ones: I'm quite fond of WD RE series drives, a bit more expensive but from my experience very reliable. Kind regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
Re: Backups [was Re: Is tape dead?]
On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 06:31:46PM -0600, ben wrote: > On 9/24/2015 6:16 PM, Al Kossow wrote: > > >Word on the street is stay away from WD for the near future. They've had > >massive > >QC problems. > > > I wonder what is happening in the clouds? They pay very close attention and are _very_ picky which drives they buy ;-) Kind regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
Re: Thoughts on manual database design?
Not sure why you have VARCHARs for primary keys, why not use the conventional auto-increment int so you can dispense with the LastGeneratedArtifactID table. Because my artifact ID's are not always just numbers. In some cases they may already be marked on an artifact (though typically not for manuals - but this is just the first of a set of such projects, and they *are* marked on many of my computer boards). You can still force the artifact ID VARCHARS to be unique, and index them as well, of course. There are at least a couple of reasons to have primary keys that are independent of the "visible" key. First, if the user-visible key ever changes (what if the inventory tag falls off and is lost?), that will break all the links that refer to that record (or else you'll need extra code to handle this). Also, there have been many times when some aspect of a key that's directly tied to an external bit of information needs to change format - numeric to character, or length change, or... This too will break things. No, I don't need made up primary keys. The other tables have the keys they need to guarantee uniqueness - in some cases the PK is made of up two or more columns. I seriously dislike the current fad of inventing such keys when they are not needed. I too used to develop new databases this way, figuring that since a certain bit of information is guaranteed to be unique (or that I want to guarantee its uniqueness), I'd use that for the primary key. After getting bitten more times than not, I now almost always create an auto-number key whose only purpose may be for internal linkage. (I recently developed a project using Zoho Creator, which was a learning experience to say the least. It's worth noting that an explicit ID field is part of *every* data table that you can create there - there's no way around it. And, it turned out that it was pretty darn helpful a lot of the time, too.) Another thing, although MySQL is fine but for this I think SQLite might be a better choice of db. Its access methods are all in-process ie. no external dbms service to bother with, just a library to link in and the physical database is a disk file (.s3db extension). It has a much 'lighter' db footprint. As I mentioned in another response, I truly dislike SQLite, based on my experience with it on my Garmin GPS. I'm still not sure why - my experience has been very good. What bad experiences have you had? ~~ Mark Moulding
Re: RL01, RL02, RK06, RK07 cable differences
On 9/25/2015 1:00 PM, Paul Anderson wrote: > Thanks for the feedback everyone. > > The 17 class # should be the type of wire used in the cable, so maybe the > -00 ans -01 is the difference . > That would surprise me. That last two digit suffix is typically a revision. > I'm just trying to sure weather or not the RL and RK cables are > interchangeable. Sounds like the RK might work on the RL, but not the other > way. > I think that has been my experience. I know that the RL cables do not work with the RK drives, because I tried it once. > I have plastic and metal terminators, and the same with the cables and was > trying to remember if that had anything to do with it. I have only ever seen plastic ones, and I have both kind of drives. So, no, I don't think so. > > Seems like we used to use the BC80 M and J for any controller when we had > them. > > For whatever reason DEC replaced the 70-12122 with the BC21Z. > > Is the 70-12145 the electrical connector for the transition bracket, the > metal mounting bracket, or the entire assembly? > >From the RL01/02 user guide it appears that part number is for the assembly. I ran out of time before I could check the controller documents. > Thanks, Paul > > On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Jay Jaeger wrote: > >> On 9/25/2015 7:24 AM, tony duell wrote: Does anyone have both of these that I can pick their brains? >>> >>> Yes. >>> >>> The RK06/07 cable connects all pins. The RL01/02 one connects only those >> used >>> by the RL drives. I doubt the characteristic impedance is different as >> the terminators >>> are the same. >>> >>> -tony >>> >>> >> >> Actually, the terminators for the RL and RK06/07 drives are *identical*, >> part number 70-12293-xx (The RL manual has no XX, the RK06/7 manual as >> 0-0 for XX, but no worries, that is just a revision number) . >> >> Darn good thing, too, because the terminators have no markings on them. ;) >> >> The wire in my RK06/RK07 cables has part number 1700051-00 on it. (Not a >> reliable indicator - see below). According to the manual, the RK06/RK07 >> cable assembly part numbers are 70-12292-LL where LL (length) may be 8, >> 12, 25 or 40. All of my RK06/RK07 cables have the part number. >> >> The wire in my RL cables is marked two different ways. One cable has >> the DEC part number for the cable itself (70-12122-10), and the wire is >> part number 1700051-01 (same as the RK cable!), and is marked AWM ... >> 2464. Others, which have no DEC part number on either the cable or the >> wire, has AWM ... JUDD Wire Div. Style 2576 on the wire. >> >> The wire I have on my RK06/07 cables is smooth and stiff, whereas the >> wire in the RL cables tends to be more "bumpy" and more flexible and >> shinier. However, given the wire part number 1700051-xx appears on both >> kinds, and is not shiny, wire used is itself not a reliable indicator. >> >> The DEC part numbers for the RL cables themselves apparently varies: >> >> BC20J-XX DEC part number 70-12122-10 - RL11, RLV11 >> BC80J-20 - RL8A >> BC80M-6 - RLV12 >> >> I would say that if an unmarked cable is 6, 10 or 20 feet long, and >> flexible it is mostly like an RL cable. If the cable is 8, 12, 25, or >> 40 feet long it is probably an RK06/07 cable. >> >> JRJ >> >
Re: cctech Digest, Vol 15, Issue 25
On 09/25/2015 01:25 PM, ben wrote: Does the include the source code too? Source code to what? The compiler? The run-time? Nowhere does any specification that I'm aware of state that there has to be either. Just a human/robot/monkey following the rules laid down in the specification. --Chuck
Re: Looking for some DEC-related spares..
> From: tony duell > 2 of said feet got bent at right-angles (!) Hammer them straight, and clean up the threads with a die. Those outriggers are unobtainium, so I can't imagine the feet are much better. > switch mechanisms for the PDP11/45 front panel. I have the toggles > (thankfully), I need the switches Now you're really into unobtainium territory. We've been moaning about the inability to find these for a while now. All the early 11's (except the 11/20) use these - 11/05, 11/40, 11/45, etc - and a bunch of us need them, but nothing doing. Noel
Re: RL01, RL02, RK06, RK07 cable differences
On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 01:00:32PM -0500, Paul Anderson wrote: >I'm just trying to sure weather or not the RL and RK cables are >interchangeable. Sounds like the RK might work on the RL, but not the other >way. That matches my understanding (I used to run both). They definitely don't interchange *both* ways. >I have plastic and metal terminators, and the same with the cables and was >trying to remember if that had anything to do with it. I thought the shiny ones were just the FCC version, but I wasn't really paying attention. I think those do interchange both ways. John Wilson D Bit
RE: Acquiring a bunch of Lisp Machines
Boot strapping a machine isn't impossible. It may be difficult but not impossible. I boot strapped a IMSAI with a "DigitalSystems" disk drive and controller. I'll admit I did know 8080 code but I had to start from scratch on the disk controller. No nice little WD controller chip to start with, just a 12X12 board to TTL. I didn't even know it was a DMA device when I started. I've trouble shot a 20 bit mini with no schematics. A lisp machine would clearly be difficult but not impossible for a determined hacker. If it was designed to run it can be made to run again. Dwight
Re: Acquiring a bunch of Lisp Machines
I'm sorry, I usually try and keep it together on this list. Dwight- your post is a shitpost. (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Shit+Posting) I'm not gonna delve into details, but the Symbolics machines have a substantial number of unique challenges going for them. It's not as if none of us have invested substantial time into understanding what's going on. It's an extremely complicated, largely undocumented system. Impossible? No. That said, your experience with bootstrapping an IMSAI could not possibly be a more irrelevant anecdote. But I do appreciate that you bootstrapped an S-100 machine once. "A lisp machine would clearly be difficult but not impossible for a determined hacker. If it was designed to run it can be made to run again." > If it was designed to run it can be made to run again. It wasn't. That's part of the problem. On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 4:43 PM, dwight wrote: > > Boot strapping a machine isn't impossible. It may be difficult but not > impossible. > I boot strapped a IMSAI with a "DigitalSystems" disk drive and controller. > I'll admit I did know 8080 code but I had to start from scratch on the > disk controller. > No nice little WD controller chip to start with, just a 12X12 board to TTL. > I didn't even know it was a DMA device when I started. > I've trouble shot a 20 bit mini with no schematics. > A lisp machine would clearly be difficult but not impossible for a > determined > hacker. > If it was designed to run it can be made to run again. > Dwight > > -- Ian Finder (206) 395-MIPS ian.fin...@gmail.com
Re: Moving PDP 11 gear - Status update
> On Sep 24, 2015, at 22:20 , devin davison wrote: > > I had the machine fired up for an hour or two, i was messing with the front > panel when i heard a fizzing sound followed by a burning smell. Was it a burning paper smell, or some other kind of burning? If it was a burning paper smell, then the capacitor used to be translucent yellow and rectangular before it caught on fire. :) Thanks for the update, and I'm looking forward to more news! -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
RE: Acquiring a bunch of Lisp Machines
> From: ian.fin...@gmail.com > > I'm sorry, I usually try and keep it together on this list. > Dwight- your post is a shitpost. > > (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Shit+Posting) > > I'm not gonna delve into details, but the Symbolics machines have a > substantial number of unique challenges going for them. It's not as if none > of us have invested substantial time into understanding what's going on. > > It's an extremely complicated, largely undocumented system. > > Impossible? No. That said, your experience with bootstrapping an IMSAI > could not possibly be a more irrelevant anecdote. > > But I do appreciate that you bootstrapped an S-100 machine once. > > "A lisp machine would clearly be difficult but not impossible for a > determined > hacker. > If it was designed to run it can be made to run again." > > > If it was designed to run it can be made to run again. > > It wasn't. That's part of the problem. > I don't know you and you obviously don't know me. I know many people like you. Many that claim to know what they are doing and are experts in there fields. I am curious about you statement" It wasn't", as to designed to run. Dwight
Re: Acquiring a bunch of Lisp Machines
On 9/25/15 4:43 PM, dwight wrote: Boot strapping a machine isn't impossible. It may be difficult but not impossible. I boot strapped a IMSAI with a "DigitalSystems" disk drive and controller. I'll admit I did know 8080 code but I had to start from scratch on the disk controller. No nice little WD controller chip to start with, just a 12X12 board to TTL. I didn't even know it was a DMA device when I started. I've trouble shot a 20 bit mini with no schematics. A lisp machine would clearly be difficult but not impossible for a determined hacker. If it was designed to run it can be made to run again. Dwight No, it's not impossible but damned difficult. First there is the FE code that gets loaded from disk. The FE then loads the LM uCode. Once the LM uCode is running, it then loads Genera. In addition, I don't think the disk format was described (at least at the level necessary for booting). Oh and neither the micro-instructions nor the macro instructions are documented in any way. Some work has been done to build an emulator but it was based upon trying to emulate the code that ran on the Alpha. No one to my knowledge has created an emulator for the 36xx series machines. TTFN - Guy
Re: Thoughts on manual database design?
On 9/25/2015 4:03 PM, m...@markesystems.com wrote: > >>> Another thing, although MySQL is fine but for this I think SQLite >>> might be a better choice of db. Its access methods are all in-process >>> ie. no external >>> dbms service to bother with, just a library to link in and the >>> physical database is a disk file (.s3db extension). It has a much >>> 'lighter' db footprint. >>> >> As I mentioned in another response, I truly dislike SQLite, based on my >> experience with it on my Garmin GPS. > > I'm still not sure why - my experience has been very good. What bad > experiences have you had? > ~~ > Mark Moulding > My Garmin has had data integrity issues in its database. Plus, lack of *convenient* tools, and having to rummage around here and there to find them. On top of that, this will be part of an online web app some day, so having the database in the address space of the web server is probably not a Good Thing.
DEC BA11K Fan repair
I have a BA11K power supply out of a pdp 11/34 that has frozen up fans. They are frozen up pretty bad. I heard from another list member here they are repairable, any advice on how to do so? --Devin
Re: DEC BA11K Fan repair
Replace with same size and voltage fans assuming you are getting enough power to the fans.I suggest replace with new same spec fans don't try to fix old worn out fan. Vital to keep power cool with a good set of fans. Easy to remove, log for hinged cover. Bill Bill Degnan twitter: billdeg vintagecomputer.net On Sep 25, 2015 4:45 PM, "devin davison" wrote: > I have a BA11K power supply out of a pdp 11/34 that has frozen up fans. > They are frozen up pretty bad. I heard from another list member here they > are repairable, any advice on how to do so? > > --Devin >
Re: Big Alphas available
fre 2015-09-25 klockan 11:18 -0400 skrev Sean Caron: > Very nice looking set of DEC 4000 machines! I'd definitely be tempted > to > make an offer on one of they were in the US... > > Best, > Pontus Pihlgren Rasby-Hammarby 755 96 Uppsala Sweden It isn't that far to Arlanda.
Re: DEC BA11K Fan repair
The DEC fans that are now a few decades past end of life the bearing wear out. Nemonix Engineering has made (new not refurbished) fans that are sealed so they do not dry out. Something to keep in mind - one of the things I remember was that as the fan slows down (prior to full death) since the fan is running slower than spec it causes the mother board to over heats. I am not a very technical p person so you probably already know this. Warm Regards, Sue > On Sep 25, 2015, at 4:45 PM, devin davison wrote: > > I have a BA11K power supply out of a pdp 11/34 that has frozen up fans. > They are frozen up pretty bad. I heard from another list member here they > are repairable, any advice on how to do so? > > --Devin Sue Skonetski VP of Customer Advocacy sue.skonet...@vmssoftware.com Office: +1 (978) 451-0116 Mobile: +1 (603) 494-9886 Mit freundlichen Grüßen – Avec mes meilleures salutations
Re: Honeywell/Bull DPS-6 deskside info?
Very nice, thank you! That DPS-6 page wasn't kidding when they said the boards were on the large side! Very interesting; they definitely have their own unique style about them ... they really liked to use daugherboards! That memory expansion card is sort of unusual. As is the edge connector for the bus. Best, Sean On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 1:23 AM, Josh Dersch wrote: > On 9/23/15 2:56 PM, Sean Caron wrote: > >> Ah, so these are the vintagetech.com machines! Please take lots of pics >> of >> the DPS-8 inside and out; I've never really seen the innards of a >> Honeywell >> machine before and I'm kind of curious what their "style" looks like. >> >> Best, >> >> Sean >> > > I put a few pictures up here: > > http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/dps6/ > > Nice bitslice processor in there, an Ethernet controller, some memory > (looks like 2MB) and as for the other boards, I'm not yet sure...) > > - Josh > > > >> >> On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Dave G4UGM wrote: >> >> Many years ago we used them as Data Entry machines, but I have no >>> documents and have forgotten everything I knew. >>> >>> -Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Josh Dersch Sent: 23 September 2015 22:45 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Honeywell/Bull DPS-6 deskside info? Along with the 11/44 I also picked up a Honeywell/Bull DPS-6 deskside workstation; I can't seem to dig up much information specific to this >>> model (a >>> badge on the rear labels it as "Model/Index No. B01732"). I can take >>> some >>> detailed pictures later this week after I've had time to clean it up >>> (it's very, >>> very dirty), but it looks very similar to the DPS-6 unit pictured on >>> this site: >>> http://www.feb-patrimoine.com/projet/gcos6/gcos6.htm Anyone have any docs on this thing? Or fun anecdotes to share? What >>> have >>> I gotten myself into with this thing? Thanks, Josh >>> >>> >
Re: Backups [was Re: Is tape dead?]
The WDC REs are not bad drives at all but IMO Hitachi Ultrastar is the best line going right now. I have been working with them for some time from 0.5T through 3T under very high duty cycle and they are fairly bulletproof. The REs will do the work, but I have seen higher failure rates on them right out of the box and higher failure rates on them in the longer term (~3 years) versus the Hitachi. I am hesitant to trust Seagate for large scale enterprise use though I think they are fine to use at home, in lighter duty cycle applications or in USB enclosures, etc. The distinction you point out is very important particularly when selecting drives to use in constructing a RAID; it's critical to avoid those drives that attempt to spin down or sleep when idle; this confuses the heck out of RAID and will cause the admin (we, the builder) no end of misery... usually it's easy to identify these drives because they are marketed as "Green" or "energy saver" but for some of the midrange product lines ... "prosumer" ... sometimes you have to dig a little to get to the facts. I think these Green drives are the worst thing on the market since the old Quantum Bigfoot; I wouldn't recommend them to anyone. I suggest starting with the keyword "enterprise SATA" and going from there ... these drives are certified for array use 24/7 and ship without any "power saving" nonsense straight from the OEM ... the premium over a normal consumer SATA disk is not really too awful. These generally use identical or very closely related HBAs to the premium SAS disks but just with different SATA-only formatter board. No real need to go SAS unless you require multipath. Best, Sean On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Alexander Schreiber wrote: > On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 11:33:59PM -0700, Chuck Guzis wrote: > > On 09/24/2015 04:30 PM, Alexander Schreiber wrote: > > > > >IMHO, you want to buy at one generation below the current max > > >capacity on the assumption that they ironed out the bugs on that > > >one. > > > > So, if you were to move up from the 500GB SATA drives to the "next > > generation", which would you choose? > > My last set of drives where WD Red 2TB drives. They are designed for NAS, > so can deal with 24/7 operation. One word of warning on those: by default > they spin down on idle (and spin up again on access). In a typical light > loaded environment, that is likely to run up the load cycles sky high > in a hurry. So I recommended completely disabling that (note: after > changing this setting, the drives need a power cycle). > > Older ones: I'm quite fond of WD RE series drives, a bit more expensive > but from my experience very reliable. > > Kind regards, >Alex. > -- > "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and > looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison >
Re: Backups [was Re: Is tape dead?]
Er, sorry, HDAs, not HBAs :O Best, Sean On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 6:55 PM, Sean Caron wrote: > The WDC REs are not bad drives at all but IMO Hitachi Ultrastar is the > best line going right now. I have been working with them for some time from > 0.5T through 3T under very high duty cycle and they are fairly bulletproof. > The REs will do the work, but I have seen higher failure rates on them > right out of the box and higher failure rates on them in the longer term > (~3 years) versus the Hitachi. I am hesitant to trust Seagate for large > scale enterprise use though I think they are fine to use at home, in > lighter duty cycle applications or in USB enclosures, etc. > > The distinction you point out is very important particularly when > selecting drives to use in constructing a RAID; it's critical to avoid > those drives that attempt to spin down or sleep when idle; this confuses > the heck out of RAID and will cause the admin (we, the builder) no end of > misery... usually it's easy to identify these drives because they are > marketed as "Green" or "energy saver" but for some of the midrange product > lines ... "prosumer" ... sometimes you have to dig a little to get to the > facts. I think these Green drives are the worst thing on the market since > the old Quantum Bigfoot; I wouldn't recommend them to anyone. > > I suggest starting with the keyword "enterprise SATA" and going from there > ... these drives are certified for array use 24/7 and ship without any > "power saving" nonsense straight from the OEM ... the premium over a normal > consumer SATA disk is not really too awful. These generally use identical > or very closely related HBAs to the premium SAS disks but just with > different SATA-only formatter board. No real need to go SAS unless you > require multipath. > > Best, > > Sean > > > On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Alexander Schreiber > wrote: > >> On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 11:33:59PM -0700, Chuck Guzis wrote: >> > On 09/24/2015 04:30 PM, Alexander Schreiber wrote: >> > >> > >IMHO, you want to buy at one generation below the current max >> > >capacity on the assumption that they ironed out the bugs on that >> > >one. >> > >> > So, if you were to move up from the 500GB SATA drives to the "next >> > generation", which would you choose? >> >> My last set of drives where WD Red 2TB drives. They are designed for NAS, >> so can deal with 24/7 operation. One word of warning on those: by default >> they spin down on idle (and spin up again on access). In a typical light >> loaded environment, that is likely to run up the load cycles sky high >> in a hurry. So I recommended completely disabling that (note: after >> changing this setting, the drives need a power cycle). >> >> Older ones: I'm quite fond of WD RE series drives, a bit more expensive >> but from my experience very reliable. >> >> Kind regards, >>Alex. >> -- >> "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls >> and >> looks like work." -- Thomas A. >> Edison >> > >
Re: Acquiring a bunch of Lisp Machines
The "wasn't" was a hint to indicate that the "OS" for the purpose of this conversation - actually the disklabel and FEP code- was never available or intended to be loaded outside of a factory / support environment. For all I know, the disk controller may require special microcode to be able to write the volume header. I have no real idea- I'm not claiming any amount of expertise- only that a microcoded, undocumented 36-bit machine with it's own secondary frontend IOP, multiple microcoded bit-slice based custom IO subsystems, and no known external software tools is a little different than an 8-bit toy computer kit. Guy's response touches on the broader strokes- the ISA for the main processor itself isn't even documented. On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 6:17 PM, dwight wrote: > > > From: ian.fin...@gmail.com > > > > I'm sorry, I usually try and keep it together on this list. > > Dwight- your post is a shitpost. > > > > (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Shit+Posting) > > > > I'm not gonna delve into details, but the Symbolics machines have a > > substantial number of unique challenges going for them. It's not as if > none > > of us have invested substantial time into understanding what's going on. > > > > It's an extremely complicated, largely undocumented system. > > > > Impossible? No. That said, your experience with bootstrapping an IMSAI > > could not possibly be a more irrelevant anecdote. > > > > But I do appreciate that you bootstrapped an S-100 machine once. > > > > "A lisp machine would clearly be difficult but not impossible for a > > determined > > hacker. > > If it was designed to run it can be made to run again." > > > > > If it was designed to run it can be made to run again. > > > > It wasn't. That's part of the problem. > > > > I don't know you and you obviously don't know me. > I know many people like you. Many that claim to know what they are > doing and are experts in there fields. > I am curious about you statement" It wasn't", as to designed to run. > Dwight > > > -- Ian Finder (206) 395-MIPS ian.fin...@gmail.com
Re: Backups [was Re: Is tape dead?]
On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 06:55:02PM -0400, Sean Caron wrote: > since the old Quantum Bigfoot There's no need to swear :-) mcl
Re: Looking for some DEC-related spares..
On 09/25/2015 04:48 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote: > From: tony duell > 2 of said feet got bent at right-angles (!) Hammer them straight, and clean up the threads with a die. Those outriggers are unobtainium, so I can't imagine the feet are much better. Umm, actually, there is a large industrial business in making equipment/furniture feet. You can get these sorts of metal or nylon feet with threaded posts from several manufacturers. (Now, I can't think of the names off the top of my head.) You will even find a few of them in a good hardware store. You might check outfits like MSC that sells a lot of machine tool supplies. Also Carr-Lane has them, under "leveling feet". Jon
Re: Backups [was Re: Is tape dead?]
On 09/25/2015 07:04 PM, Mark Linimon wrote: On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 06:55:02PM -0400, Sean Caron wrote: since the old Quantum Bigfoot There's no need to swear :-) I know it's strange, but I still have a couple of systems that occasionally get used for some legacy bit of hardware or another and they both use the BFs--one, a 8GB, and the other an 128GB, TX series--both were purchased as factory refurbs. I still have a couple of the 4GB CY drives in my storage cabinet and, at last test a couple of years ago, they worked fine. The prize for swearing, IMOHO, goes to Kalok and JTS (particularly JTS) drives... --Chuck
Re: DEC BA11K Fan repair
On 09/25/2015 03:45 PM, devin davison wrote: I have a BA11K power supply out of a pdp 11/34 that has frozen up fans. They are frozen up pretty bad. I heard from another list member here they are repairable, any advice on how to do so? --Devin Generally, you can remove a snap ring and pull out several components from the hub of the fan. Then, there is a TINY phosphor-bronze snap-ring on a post in the center. When you remove it, be careful to shield the fan with your hand to catch the ring if it flies off. Then, the fan can be removed from the motor stator. If ball bearings, you can measure and buy replacements from Boca Bearings (or other source). if sleeve bearings, you may have to drip solvent into the bearing area first to loosen it up, then it will be possible to remove the fan, and clean the bearing and post. Then, oil liberally with 10W oil and reassemble. Be sure to oil the felts as well. For sleeve bearings, this is usually a stop-gap, but will work for seldom-used gear. The Boca Bearings bearings usually get noisy sooner than the OEM bearings, but they will still last several years of running time. Different brands have slightly different construction, but many of them follow the above general design. Jon
Re: Honeywell/Bull DPS-6 deskside info?
On 9/25/15 12:50 PM, Sean Caron wrote: Very nice, thank you! No problem at all! That DPS-6 page wasn't kidding when they said the boards were on the large side! Very interesting; they definitely have their own unique style about them ... they really liked to use daugherboards! That memory expansion card is sort of unusual. As is the edge connector for the bus. Yeah, the boards are similar in dimension to DG Nova stuff or Sun VME, and they crammed a lot of stuff on them with all of the daughterboards -- it looks like the Ethernet board could hold up to four interfaces... Unfortunately, I've now had time to trace down all of the cabling and there are no storage controllers (disk, tape, and floppy) present so this thing is likely to remain a very large boat anchor for the foreseeable future. (Not that I'm likely to find media either :)). - Josh
FOR SALE: IMSAI 8080, Canon Cat, PDP 11/05, Heathkit H11, Polymorphic Systems POLY88, SWTPC 6800
I have the following systems presently for sale: IMSAI 8080 http://vintagetech.com/sales/IMSAI%208080/ Canon Cat http://vintagetech.com/sales/Canon%20Cat/ PDP 11/05 http://vintagetech.com/sales/Big%20Iron/PDP%2011-05.JPG Heathkit H11 http://vintagetech.com/sales/Heathkit%20H11/ Polymorphic Systems POLY88 http://vintagetech.com/sales/Polymorphic%20Systems%20POLY88/ SWTPC 6800 http://vintagetech.com/sales/SWTPC%206800/ Please inquire in private e-mail for more information and price (negotiable). Thanks! -- Sellam ibn Abraham VintageTech -- International Man of Intrigue and Dangerhttp://www.vintagetech.com Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. The truth is always simple. * * * NOTICE * * * Due to the insecure nature of the medium over which this message has been transmitted, no statement made in this writing may be considered reliable for any purpose either express or implied. The contents of this message are appropriate for entertainment and/or informational purposes only. The right of the people to be secure in their papers against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated.
RE: Acquiring a bunch of Lisp Machines
> From: ian.fin...@gmail.com >> > The "wasn't" was a hint to indicate that the "OS" for the purpose of this > conversation - actually the disklabel and FEP code- was never available or > intended to be loaded outside of a factory / support environment. > > For all I know, the disk controller may require special microcode to be > able to write the volume header. I have no real idea- > > I'm not claiming any amount of expertise- only that a microcoded, > undocumented 36-bit machine with it's own secondary frontend IOP, multiple > microcoded bit-slice based custom IO subsystems, and no known external > software tools is a little different than an 8-bit toy computer kit. > > Guy's response touches on the broader strokes- the ISA for the main > processor itself isn't even documented. > > I get no credit for repairing a 20 bit computer without schematic. Not 36 bit but still of some worth. The disk controller on the imsai was a bit controlled state machine. Not 36 bit but not a trivial toy repair either. I think you don't know me. Dwight Dwight
Re: Regarding Manuals
>Al Kossow wrote: >On 9/25/15 9:57 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote: If you whip up a list of what you've got, I'd be happy to check it for you. You REALLY want to check what Alan Frisbie has done this past year before spending a lot of time on this. I see in alt.sys.pdp11 that he just listed an RT 5.6 manual set on eBay. It is highly unlikely he would be selling it if it hasn't already been scanned. For anyone who is interested, the V05.06 RT-11 DOC set is IDENTICAL to the V05.07 RT-11 DOC set EXCEPT for the Release Notes. As far as I know, ALL of those manuals have been scanned into PDF files and are available for download. In practice, that means there are two Release Notes manuals, one for V05.06 of RT-11 and another for V05.07 of RT-11. And there is a single manual for the rest of the RT-11 DOC set manuals for both V05.06 of RT-11 and V05.07 of RT-11 since Mentec made no changes at all to any of the V05.06 RT-11 DOC set manuals EXCEPT for the Release Notes. If anyone would appreciate a link to the PDF files for these manuals, please ask. I don't have it handy at the moment. But it should not be difficult to find the link again. Jerome Fine
Re: Big Alphas available
On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 11:05:42PM +0200, Stefan Skoglund (lokal användare) wrote: > > Pontus Pihlgren > Rasby-Hammarby > 755 96 Uppsala > Sweden > > It isn't that far to Arlanda. Nope, 40 minutes drive or so. /P
