RE: Immutability - was Re: ENIAC programming Was: release dates of early microcomputer operating systems, incl. Intel ISIS
> -Original Message- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Toby Thain > Sent: 17 September 2015 18:30 > To: gene...@classiccmp.org; discuss...@classiccmp.org:On-Topic and Off- > Topic Posts ; gene...@classiccmp.org > Subject: Immutability - was Re: ENIAC programming Was: release dates of > early microcomputer operating systems, incl. Intel ISIS > > On 2015-09-17 12:44 PM, Jon Elson wrote: > > > >> > From: Dave Wade > >> > >> > >> > to me a "computer" without self-modifying code is a programmable > >> > calculator even if it has index registers... > >> > >> > > Most modern computer languages run with the executable instructions in > > a "pure code" section, which is set to be NOT writeable by the program. > > This avoids a LOT of simple mistakes and REALLY hard to find program > > crashes. > > This is true of MS, Linux/Unix and the VMS program environment that I > > have used for about 40 years. I think you have to go back to maybe > > Windows 95 or RT-11 to not have that protection. Actually not (quite). The true virtual machines in NT builds of Windows and Linux protect programs from each other. So you can't damage someone else's code... but I believe that you could still load code into the data area and execute it.. up until about 10 years ago when DEP was introduced http://malwaremusings.com/2012/10/13/self-modifying-code-changing-memory-pro tection/ and if your code is running with admin rights on Windows you can use the "VirtualProtect" interface to allow you to write self-modifying code. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa366898(v=vs.85).a spx Of course this is part of the reason we have all these problems with Buffer Overrun. > > Modern languages extend this "protection" further, to the programmer > model, with immutable bindings and data structures, shunning variables > entirely. > > --Toby > > > > > Jon > > Dave
Re: IBM 026
I have one each of 029 and 129. I was never that impressed with the 026 to pursue one. The 029 is in a state of disrepair, complete, the 129 is running when I turn it on. thanks Jim On 9/18/2015 7:16 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: On 09/18/2015 06:33 PM, Don North wrote: Lucky it is not just scrap metal then, it is a probably restorable 026 keypunch, of which very few still exist. There had to be many more 029s than 026s made. Yet I've never seen a lot of them offered. I'd much rather use an 029 than an 026--given the number made, why doesn't the proportion of existing keypunches reflect that? I do recall seeing surplused 026s with the MAI label on them (this was before the Basic Four days). --Chuck
Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus - Re: ENIAC programming
On 18/09/2015 14:33, tony duell wrote: Are there any computers that do let you put microcode into RAM now-days. "Now-days"? There are some that do that, some of which are still in operational shape. Some VAXen, in particular, have something called "writable control store", which is essentially microcode RAM. As far as I know, the VAX11/730 (There is one next to me waiting for me to have time to restore it) has the microcode entirely in RAM. Classic PERQs (3 in the next room) have their microcode entirely in RAM too (in that case, there is a microcode boot ROM to load the microcode from disk, but it is switched out after the microcode is loaded). -tony Is an overlay self modifyig code? Rod -- Wanted : KDJ11-E M8981 KK8-E M8300 KK8-E M8310 KK8-E M8320 KK8-E M8330
RE: VAX 730 was Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus - Re: ENIAC programming
> > The biggest risk I remember from the 730 design (I worked in the same hardware > lab, different project: 11/74 CIS) was the extensive use of PALs. This was the > first (I believe) project at DEC to use them, and they were basically buying > all It may well have been. Certainly the 11/730 is full of PALs, this is how (I think) they got a complete VAX CPU onto 3 hex boards using standard ICs. The only custom parts (as opposed to custom programmed parts) in there are the 2 gate arrays for the memory ECC which are the same as the ones in an 11/750. DEC were also using the 82S100 PLA at around that time. Whether it was first used before the 11/730 I don't know (I suspect it was). Don't get me wrong, I like the 11/730, and apart from the use of DRAM for the control store I think it is a very interesting and neat design. It is one of only 2 VAX families I would consider trying to run, and due to space constraints it's the only one I can run (the other being the 11/780, and no way do I have room for one of those). -tony
Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus - Re: ENIAC programming
> On Sep 19, 2015, at 5:25 AM, Rod Smallwood > wrote: > > Is an overlay self modifyig code? Yes (#2 in my list), but a controlled kind so it doesn't suffer from the maintainability issues of explicitly modified instructions. But it does require I-cache management, if the computer has an I-cache. Not all that likely; a machine small enough that overlays are valuable isn't all that likely to have an I-cache. paul
Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus - Re: ENIAC programming
On 19/09/2015 14:03, Paul Koning wrote: On Sep 19, 2015, at 5:25 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote: Is an overlay self modifyig code? Yes (#2 in my list), but a controlled kind so it doesn't suffer from the maintainability issues of explicitly modified instructions. But it does require I-cache management, if the computer has an I-cache. Not all that likely; a machine small enough that overlays are valuable isn't all that likely to have an I-cache. paul Its a while back but I seem to remember in BASIC you replaced a set of line numbers with another of the same range but different code. Rod -- Wanted : KDJ11-E M8981 KK8-E M8300 KK8-E M8310 KK8-E M8320 KK8-E M8330
TSS/8 with modern disks?
Some years ago I recall reading about possibly modifying TSS/8 to run on more recent disks instead of the ancient DF32 (a whopping 32Kword fixed head disk with up to three more slaved platters). Did anyone actually implement the changes? I know it wouldn't work well on a moving-head disk without significant changes, because the swapping is more or less constant. -Charles
Re: TSS/8 with modern disks?
On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 10:50:04AM -0500, Charles wrote: >Some years ago I recall reading about possibly modifying TSS/8 to run on more >recent disks instead of the ancient DF32 (a whopping 32Kword fixed head disk >with up to three more slaved platters). Or the RF08/RS08 -- luxurious compared to a DF32/DS32! >Did anyone actually implement the changes? I know it wouldn't work well on a >moving-head disk without significant changes, because the swapping is more or >less constant. A zillion years ago, the DECUS library had a TSS/8 hack to make it run on an RK05 (as the only disk I mean -- later TSS/8s already supported RKs as data disks, unless I've gone senile). No idea how they managed that -- the wordiness of the DF/RF controllers penetrates deep into TSS/8's soul. Maybe RFILE/WFILE weren't done compatibly with vanilla TSS/8? Dunno. John Wilson [0,3]@SID D Bit
DG S/130 front panel switches?
So does anyone have a trashed/dead front panel for a Data General S/130 (S/200 would also work) that can be a donor? All I need are two switches/paddles/Covers, but my S/200 front panel is perfect so I don't want to rob from that for the S/130 project. One light blue, one dark blue... Crossing my fingers. J
Re: TSS/8 with modern disks?
Seems like a ssd would make an idealfixed head replacement if it has to swap swap swap all the time? Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) In a message dated 9/19/2015 9:44:07 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, wil...@dbit.com writes: On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 10:50:04AM -0500, Charles wrote: >Some years ago I recall reading about possibly modifying TSS/8 to run on more >recent disks instead of the ancient DF32 (a whopping 32Kword fixed head disk >with up to three more slaved platters). Or the RF08/RS08 -- luxurious compared to a DF32/DS32! >Did anyone actually implement the changes? I know it wouldn't work well on a >moving-head disk without significant changes, because the swapping is more or >less constant. A zillion years ago, the DECUS library had a TSS/8 hack to make it run on an RK05 (as the only disk I mean -- later TSS/8s already supported RKs as data disks, unless I've gone senile). No idea how they managed that -- the wordiness of the DF/RF controllers penetrates deep into TSS/8's soul. Maybe RFILE/WFILE weren't done compatibly with vanilla TSS/8? Dunno. John Wilson [0,3]@SID D Bit
RE: TSS/8 with modern disks?
Ed wrote Seems like a ssd would make an idealfixed head replacement if it has to swap swap swap all the time? O.O J
Re: TSS/8 with modern disks?
what is a O.O jay? In a message dated 9/19/2015 9:54:12 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, jw...@classiccmp.org writes: Ed wrote Seems like a ssd would make an idealfixed head replacement if it has to swap swap swap all the time? O.O J
Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus - Re: ENIAC programming
On 19 September 2015 at 17:02, Rod Smallwood wrote: > Its a while back but I seem to remember in BASIC you replaced a set of line > numbers with another of the same range but different code. Blimey, I've never seen that. I do remember that ZX BASIC had a cool-but-dangerous feature: you could get it to evaluate an arbitrary string as if it were an expression. This meant you could do cool things in BASIC programs -- enter formulae such as "2*4+3.5" when the program wanted a numeric value, for instance. Then a friend showed me that you could also access the program's own variables. If the program had variables called a, b & c, you could also enter "a*b+c" and it would use the values. Which meant that if it /didn't/ have such variables, the program would crash out with an "unknown variable name" error... a sort of early "exploit". -- Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)
Re: IBM 026
On Sat, 19 Sep 2015, Able Baker wrote: On Fri, 18 Sep 2015, Todd Goodman wrote: On Fri, 18 Sep 2015, Noel Chiappa wrote: Well, here's an 029 (not quite what the OP was looking for, but good enough for you all, I expect) for a not insane amount of money: http://www.ebay.com/itm/281796720725 So I see this sold - anyone know who got it? Yes. I did. I'll let people know what's up when I receive it. Though i don't expect to get much time with it for a while. Some people have more money than common cents...However, you only overpaid for it by about $800.As scrap metal it's probably worth about $99.99 If you really wanted it that badly then you should've bought it.
Re: ISO 800-3827-10A_SunOS_Reference_Manual, part one
On 9/18/15 2:16 PM, Al Kossow wrote: On 9/18/15 1:52 PM, Josh Dersch wrote: I need to check my shelves for specifics, but I have a lot of SunOS documentation for early releases (1.0-3.0 or so) -- I can scan it if you don't already have it in the queue... - Josh I don't have anything for 2.x There are directories up on bitsavers now for the releases that I have some docs for Was there ever a release of SunOS 4.1.x documents as Postscript? Checked my shelves last night, as far as stuff that doesn't overlap with what you already have: I have a doc set for SunOS 1.0, a few things for 1.4, and a mostly-complete set for 2.0, along with a few bits of miscellanea. I also have a ton of stuff for 3.0, I'll see if there's anything I have that isn't already on Bitsavers. - Josh
Re: ISO 800-3827-10A_SunOS_Reference_Manual, part one
On 9/19/15 10:34 AM, Josh Dersch wrote: I also have a ton of stuff for 3.0, I'll see if there's anything I have that isn't already on Bitsavers. I'm working through 3.0, 4.0, and 4.1.1 this morning. 2.x would be good to scan. Is the KV-S3065W working OK? I still need to write you with my workflow, though it is a bit baroque. I like to use an ancient scanning app written for W98 and ISIS drivers because of the way that it names the resulting pages, tumble to create the pdf, then Acrobat Pro 9 to OCR. You'll find the color dropout handy if you ever have to deal with a document that someone took highlighter to. Getting good results at 600dpi can be tricky since it the sensors seem to be noisy doing B&W. I have the service manual and the service app, but have never tried adjusting the levels on the contact image sensors. About the only thing that wears out are the rollers and the clear plastic covers over the CISs (they get scratched). I've run literally millions of pages through them. The rollers are expensive ($300 for a kit). The retard roller (PJDRC0054Y) wears down first, that is about $100.
eval() considered dodgy - Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus - Re: ENIAC programming
On 2015-09-19 1:15 PM, Liam Proven wrote: On 19 September 2015 at 17:02, Rod Smallwood wrote: Its a while back but I seem to remember in BASIC you replaced a set of line numbers with another of the same range but different code. Blimey, I've never seen that. I do remember that ZX BASIC had a cool-but-dangerous feature: you could get it to evaluate an arbitrary string as if it were an expression. This meant you could do cool things in BASIC programs -- enter formulae such as "2*4+3.5" when the program wanted a numeric value, for instance. Then a friend showed me that you could also access the program's own variables. If the program had variables called a, b & c, you could also enter "a*b+c" and it would use the values. Which meant that if it /didn't/ have such variables, the program would crash out with an "unknown variable name" error... a sort of early "exploit". Thank God nobody would build such a thing into a modern language, especially not the one that runs in almost every browser... --Toby
Re: TSS/8 with modern disks?
On 9/19/15 9:44 AM, John Wilson wrote: later TSS/8s already supported RKs as data disks, unless I've gone senile). No idea how they managed that -- UW-M's TSS/8 supported that. It should be in the monitor sources that we read.
Re: TSS/8 with modern disks?
I would think the fixed head media swapped faster than the RK's unlessthee fixed head media was really slow... Ed# In a message dated 9/19/2015 10:45:53 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, a...@bitsavers.org writes: On 9/19/15 9:44 AM, John Wilson wrote: > later TSS/8s already supported RKs > as data disks, unless I've gone senile). No idea how they managed that -- > UW-M's TSS/8 supported that. It should be in the monitor sources that we read.
RE: Self modifying code, lambda calculus - Re: ENIAC programming
> > Its a while back but I seem to remember in BASIC you replaced a set of line > > numbers with another of the same range but different code. > > Blimey, I've never seen that. A lot of disk-based BASICs had a statement that would merge a program from disk in this way. Sometimes the program had to be saved in ASCII, not tokenised, the BASIC interpretter then essentially read the file as if you were typing it on the keyboard. So program lines would indeed replace those with the same line number. One of the extension ROMs for HPL on the HP9825 (a BASIC-like language) had a command to store a string as a program line. It could be used within a program, thus leading to an official way to have self-modifying code. -tony
Re: PDP-11 manuals scanned/scanning
>> From: Jerome H. Fine >> a list of the actual links to the other PDF files which are >> available to be viewed would be appreciated. > I should probably throw together a web page with links to all the > PDP-11 files there (e.g. the one I just put together, of print sets > that are available inside other print sets), and link to that from my > home page. OK, done: http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/PDP-11_Stuff.html I'll update it anything I put up anything else. Anyone and everyone is free, nay urged, to mirror any of the material that page links to on their own sites. Noel
Re: IBM 026
On 09/19/2015 01:12 AM, jwsmobile wrote: I have one each of 029 and 129. I was never that impressed with the 026 to pursue one. The 029 is in a state of disrepair, complete, the 129 is running when I turn it on. If you had a room full of 029, 026 and 024 keypunches, which would be used first? My money's on the 029, then the 026 and finally the 024, unless there were some overriding requirement for the older character set over, say, an EBCDIC-equipped 029 (not all 029s punched EBCDIC). --Chuck
Re: TSS/8 with modern disks?
On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 01:49:38PM -0400, couryho...@aol.com wrote: >I would think the fixed head media swapped faster than the RK's >unlessthee fixed head media was really slow... Ed# The DS/RS disks certainly weren't slow ... but an RK could still be fast enough to be useful. I'm thinking the hard part would be shoveling out enough space for a sector buffer, so that it could do word insert/extract operations and make the RFILE/WFILE calls still act more or less like the DMAR/DMAW instructions on the DF/RF. My understanding is that RKs as data disks used different calls (and weren't file-structured). John Wilson D Bit
Re: ISO 800-3827-10A_SunOS_Reference_Manual, part one
On 9/19/15 10:44 AM, Al Kossow wrote: On 9/19/15 10:34 AM, Josh Dersch wrote: I also have a ton of stuff for 3.0, I'll see if there's anything I have that isn't already on Bitsavers. I'm working through 3.0, 4.0, and 4.1.1 this morning. 2.x would be good to scan. Cool, I'll do that. Looks like I have stuff for a few different 2.X revisions. I also have a lot of 1.1 stuff; considerably more than is on Bitsavers right now -- do you have more left to scan for that? I also have a dozen or so Software Technical Bulletins from 1986-1989 or so -- SunOS 3.x era (not a complete set). Any interest there? Is the KV-S3065W working OK? I still need to write you with my workflow, though it is a bit baroque. I like to use an ancient scanning app written for W98 and ISIS drivers because of the way that it names the resulting pages, tumble to create the pdf, then Acrobat Pro 9 to OCR. Yes, it does seem to be working ok, though I haven't done much with it yet, just scanned in a few hundred pages of a random manual just to try it out. Looking forward to seeing details on your workflow. You'll find the color dropout handy if you ever have to deal with a document that someone took highlighter to. Getting good results at 600dpi can be tricky since it the sensors seem to be noisy doing B&W. I have the service manual and the service app, but have never tried adjusting the levels on the contact image sensors. About the only thing that wears out are the rollers and the clear plastic covers over the CISs (they get scratched). I've run literally millions of pages through them. The rollers are expensive ($300 for a kit). The retard roller (PJDRC0054Y) wears down first, that is about $100. Cool. Any recommendations for places to purchase spares from? The rollers in mine are a bit dirty, but they seem to have cleaned up OK and i haven't had any jams or problems with paper feeding (fingers crossed), but I'm sure I'll need them sooner or later. - Josh
Re: TSS/8 with modern disks?
On 9/19/15 11:12 AM, John Wilson wrote: but an RK could still be fast enough to be useful. When did the 4K user space(s?) actually swap? Did they round-robin or swap based on activity? I would think they would stay in place until cpu-bound jobs reached their time quantum. With only a couple of people on a 32k machine, it may not even swap that much, depending on what the users were running. I'd guess BASIC was pretty big.
Re: ISO 800-3827-10A_SunOS_Reference_Manual, part one
On 9/19/15 12:29 PM, Josh Dersch wrote: I also have a lot of 1.1 stuff; considerably more than is on Bitsavers right now -- do you have more left to scan for that? I thought I did, but it isn't in the sun to-do directory I also have a dozen or so Software Technical Bulletins from 1986-1989 or so -- SunOS 3.x era (not a complete set). Any interest there? yes, don't think I've ever seen those Cool. Any recommendations for places to purchase spares from? Not really, There are a lot of places that carry parts, and their prices vary a LOT. Panasonic used to have a direct-sales site in Illinois, but I don't see it coming up on line now. The rollers should clean up easily. The thing I've seen is the rubber swells over time. Thinking about it now, I haven't tried reducing the paper thickness with the knob on the side or tried sanding the rollers so they were flat again. There was a version on the earlier models that used silicone rubber, but those got stiff over time and stopped gripping paper.
Re: IBM 026
If you really wanted it that badly then you should've bought it. The only posts from "Able Baker" (whoever THAT might be) going back six years have been about the keypunch Dont' feed the troll
Re: TSS/8 with modern disks?
On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 12:30:13PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote: >When did the 4K user space(s?) actually swap? Did they round-robin or swap >based on activity? I would think they would stay in place until cpu-bound >jobs reached their time quantum. With only a couple of people on a 32k >machine, it may not even swap that much, depending on what the users were >running. I'd guess BASIC was pretty big. My understanding is that it's round-robin among runnable jobs, one time slice at a time. I.e. the simplest possible way. IIRC the monitor always takes up two fields (not swappable). One more field (so, 12 KW total) is the minimum necessary to run at all -- SI, FIP, and all the users can share that field with frantic enough swapping (which causes a pretty lights show on the RF08 panel). Any more memory than that means less swapping (or none), so it's kicking out the LRU job as needed. I have a hazy memory that SI and FIP *only* run in field 2? Could be wrong. BASIC runs in your 4 KW with you. I've never seen its sources so I don't know how clever it is about overlays and/or keeping your program on disk. It's a very limited BASIC. Strings are 6 characters. Not max -- *always* 6. Line #s max out at 2046. John Wilson D Bit
Re: TSS/8 with modern disks?
On 9/19/15 1:45 PM, John Wilson wrote: BASIC runs in your 4 KW with you. I've never seen its sources The source is in with the UWM stuff. Look under http://bitsavers.org/bits/DEC/pdp8/ascii/basic /TSS/8 BASIC COMPILER (BASCOM) VERSION 18 / /REVISION: 13-AUG-71IDC/GWB/PJK / /COPYRIGHT 1969, 1970, 1971 DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORP. / MAYNARD, MASSACHUSETTS / /ORIGINALLY WRITTEN BY: / INFORMATION DEVELOPMENT CORP. / DEDHAM, MASS. /
Re: TSS/8 with modern disks?
there was a time I really wanted a tss 8 system to use and even started colleting stuff for it in the late 70s but along came the 2000 f HP system I bought and I headed in that direction.. which gave be an HP destiny not a DEC Destiny. but still ... would love to find a tss-8 all together in the racks as used back then... Ed# In a message dated 9/19/2015 1:45:44 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, wil...@dbit.com writes: On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 12:30:13PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote: >When did the 4K user space(s?) actually swap? Did they round-robin or swap >based on activity? I would think they would stay in place until cpu-bound >jobs reached their time quantum. With only a couple of people on a 32k >machine, it may not even swap that much, depending on what the users were >running. I'd guess BASIC was pretty big. My understanding is that it's round-robin among runnable jobs, one time slice at a time. I.e. the simplest possible way. IIRC the monitor always takes up two fields (not swappable). One more field (so, 12 KW total) is the minimum necessary to run at all -- SI, FIP, and all the users can share that field with frantic enough swapping (which causes a pretty lights show on the RF08 panel). Any more memory than that means less swapping (or none), so it's kicking out the LRU job as needed. I have a hazy memory that SI and FIP *only* run in field 2? Could be wrong. BASIC runs in your 4 KW with you. I've never seen its sources so I don't know how clever it is about overlays and/or keeping your program on disk. It's a very limited BASIC. Strings are 6 characters. Not max -- *always* 6. Line #s max out at 2046. John Wilson D Bit
Re: eval() considered dodgy - Re: Self modifying code, lambda calculus - Re: ENIAC programming
On 9/19/2015 11:45 AM, Toby Thain wrote: Thank God nobody would build such a thing into a modern language, especially not the one that runs in almost every browser... No it just crashes when the AD server or Flash stops. --Toby Ben.
Re: TSS/8 with modern disks?
On 9/19/2015 1:30 PM, Al Kossow wrote: On 9/19/15 11:12 AM, John Wilson wrote: but an RK could still be fast enough to be useful. When did the 4K user space(s?) actually swap? Did they round-robin or swap based on activity? I would think they would stay in place until cpu-bound jobs reached their time quantum. With only a couple of people on a 32k machine, it may not even swap that much, depending on what the users were running. I'd guess BASIC was pretty big. Swapping was created I thought so you could run with only a few K of memory. Ben.
Re: IBM 026
Not feeding a supernatural being from Norse mythology is your suggestion??Good idea. From: Al Kossow To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2015 4:44 PM Subject: Re: IBM 026 > If you really wanted it that badly then you should've bought it. > The only posts from "Able Baker" (whoever THAT might be) going back six years have been about the keypunch Dont' feed the troll
Re: IBM 026
Todd, Well, hopefully this community is about celebrating people that have an interest in saving old valuable hardware. Not bullying them. Saving substantial hardware involves a substantial personal investment in time and money. So, Todd, well done, congratulations on your buy, and thanks for taking care of a rare 026. And if you need any tips for restoration I would be happy to help (I have an 026 and an 029, both fully functional now). Marc == Message: 27 From: Todd Goodman Subject: Re: IBM 026 Message-ID: <20150918235900.gf30...@ns1.bonedaddy.net> * Noel Chiappa [150918 07:25]: > So I see this sold - anyone know who got it? > > Noel Yes. I did. I'll let people know what's up when I receive it. Though i don't expect to get much time with it for a while. Todd
Re: IBM 026
XYZZY. hopefully banishing the creature back to the cave. Plugh (for good measure) On 9/19/2015 3:10 PM, Able Baker wrote: Not feeding a supernatural being from Norse mythology is your suggestion??Good idea. From: Al Kossow To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2015 4:44 PM Subject: Re: IBM 026 If you really wanted it that badly then you should've bought it. The only posts from "Able Baker" (whoever THAT might be) going back six years have been about the keypunch Dont' feed the troll
Re: IBM 026
> On Sep 19, 2015, at 16:32 , jwsmobile wrote: > > XYZZY. hopefully banishing the creature back to the cave. > > Plugh (for good measure) LOL! I'm not in equipment acquisition mode at the moment, but I wouldn't mind having a nice keypunch someday. And a pinball machine, too! -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: IBM 026
You're an ass. I don't know who pissed in your corn flakes but don't piss in mine. It's "common sense." I don't give a rat's ass what it's worth as scrap. * Able Baker [150918 21:10]: > Some people have more money than common cents...However, you only overpaid > for it by about $800.As scrap metal it's probably worth about $99.99 > From: Todd Goodman > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 7:59 PM > Subject: Re: IBM 026 > > * Noel Chiappa [150918 07:25]: > > > > > Well, here's an 029 (not quite what the OP was looking for, but good > > > enough for you all, I expect) for a not insane amount of money: > > > http://www.ebay.com/itm/281796720725 > > > > So I see this sold - anyone know who got it? > > > > Noel > > Yes. I did. I'll let people know what's up when I receive it. Though > i don't expect to get much time with it for a while. > > Todd > > >
RE: IBM 026
Marc wrote... Well, hopefully this community is about celebrating people that have an interest in saving old valuable hardware. Not bullying them. Ditto. Offlist email sent. Saving substantial hardware involves a substantial personal investment in time and money. So, Todd, well done, congratulations on your buy, and thanks for taking care of a rare 026. And if you need any tips for restoration I would be happy to help (I have an 026 and an 029, both fully functional now). Agreed. I've always half-way wanted a 026, and I have no doubt that $899 is a reasonable price (for me). The only thing stopping me is no system to hook it up to. But then, there's always the classiccmp "law of attraction" ;) J
Re: IBM 026
> I don't know who pissed in your corn flakes but don't piss in mine. I am pretty sure I need to start using this phrase. -- Will
Re: IBM 026
On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 4:32 PM, jwsmobile wrote: > XYZZY. hopefully banishing the creature back to the cave. > > Plugh (for good measure) > > Y2 -- Charles
Re:(was IBM 026) / is: Documation or card reader roller upgrades / successes.
On 9/19/2015 4:41 PM, Jay West wrote: Marc wrote... Well, hopefully this community is about celebrating people that have an interest in saving old valuable hardware. Not bullying them. Ditto. Offlist email sent. Saving substantial hardware involves a substantial personal investment in time and money. So, Todd, well done, congratulations on your buy, and thanks for taking care of a rare 026. And if you need any tips for restoration I would be happy to help (I have an 026 and an 029, both fully functional now). Agreed. I've always half-way wanted a 026, and I have no doubt that $899 is a reasonable price (for me). The only thing stopping me is no system to hook it up to. But then, there's always the classiccmp "law of attraction" ;) J I may need help with the 029. It was bought "functional" but the modules are out of it. Since I have a working 129, I have not gotten into this one. Anyone with a huge desire for it, we could talk about it. I'm really looking for / dreading how to get a reliable reader. I have "gooed" one Documation 200 and have another not powered on by me, and also an M1000, and would be interested in anyone who has successfully followed thru on all the discussions about the rollers as to how they did it and how they are working now. Please, we all have archives, and know there are huge threads about this in the list. I'm interested in an update with this query. thanks jim
Re: TSS/8 with modern disks?
On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 01:50:00PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote: >>BASIC runs in your 4 KW with you. I've never seen its sources > >The source is in with the UWM stuff. Look under >http://bitsavers.org/bits/DEC/pdp8/ascii/basic How did I not notice that?! Awesome! Grabbed and reCRLFed. Thanks!! John Wilson D Bit
Re: IBM 026
Can't help you with a keypunch, but I was in the coin-operated pinball and arcade game business for 25 years... From: Mark J. Blair To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2015 7:34 PM Subject: Re: IBM 026 > On Sep 19, 2015, at 16:32 , jwsmobile wrote: > > XYZZY. hopefully banishing the creature back to the cave. > > Plugh (for good measure) LOL! I'm not in equipment acquisition mode at the moment, but I wouldn't mind having a nice keypunch someday. And a pinball machine, too! -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: IBM 026
Hasta La Pastato a bunch of Intolerants From: Jay West To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2015 7:41 PM Subject: RE: IBM 026 Marc wrote... Well, hopefully this community is about celebrating people that have an interest in saving old valuable hardware. Not bullying them. Ditto. Offlist email sent. Saving substantial hardware involves a substantial personal investment in time and money. So, Todd, well done, congratulations on your buy, and thanks for taking care of a rare 026. And if you need any tips for restoration I would be happy to help (I have an 026 and an 029, both fully functional now). Agreed. I've always half-way wanted a 026, and I have no doubt that $899 is a reasonable price (for me). The only thing stopping me is no system to hook it up to. But then, there's always the classiccmp "law of attraction" ;) J
RE: IBM 026
Subscription suspended. Next topic? -Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Able Baker Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2015 8:06 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: IBM 026 oooh very thoughtful...you know your XYZ's and the number 2 From: Charles Anthony To: jwsm...@jwsss.com; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2015 8:10 PM Subject: Re: IBM 026 On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 4:32 PM, jwsmobile wrote: > XYZZY. hopefully banishing the creature back to the cave. > > Plugh (for good measure) > > Y2 -- Charles
Garage sale in Silicon Valley
Various items that will probably be of interest here. No reasonable offer refused. Hard copy?? You got it:DecWriter LA30 (modified to show lower case, yes it works).DecWriter LA36 (Decwriter II) Sun 4/110 floor standing model, 36 megs (if I remember correctly).Two SCSI boxes that go with the Sun, I believe one has an operating system on it.Apple LaserWriter Plus, two (UNOPENED) toner cartridges for it.ADDS Viewpoint 3A terminal. Just so you know it is "classic":JVC U-Matic (3/4 inch) video cassette recorder, with cables. NTSC. Sorry I can't ship these, they are currently located in zip code 95008.PayPal accepted at time of sale. Make me an offer I can't refuse!
Re: Garage sale in Silicon Valley
What do you want for the 4/110 + SCSI? I'm in 95112. Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 19, 2015, at 19:51, Tom Watson wrote: > > Various items that will probably be of interest here. No reasonable offer > refused. > Hard copy?? You got it:DecWriter LA30 (modified to show lower case, yes it > works).DecWriter LA36 (Decwriter II) > Sun 4/110 floor standing model, 36 megs (if I remember correctly).Two SCSI > boxes that go with the Sun, I believe one has an operating system on it.Apple > LaserWriter Plus, two (UNOPENED) toner cartridges for it.ADDS Viewpoint 3A > terminal. > Just so you know it is "classic":JVC U-Matic (3/4 inch) video cassette > recorder, with cables. NTSC. > Sorry I can't ship these, they are currently located in zip code 95008.PayPal > accepted at time of sale. > Make me an offer I can't refuse! >
Re: IBM 026
Thanks Marc, It may be a while before I get to restoring it but will definitely keep you in mind when I do. Thanks, Todd * Marc Verdiell [150919 18:36]: > Todd, > Well, hopefully this community is about celebrating people that have an > interest in saving old valuable hardware. Not bullying them. Saving > substantial hardware involves a substantial personal investment in time and > money. So, Todd, well done, congratulations on your buy, and thanks for > taking care of a rare 026. And if you need any tips for restoration I would > be happy to help (I have an 026 and an 029, both fully functional now). > Marc > > == > > Message: 27 > From: Todd Goodman > Subject: Re: IBM 026 > Message-ID: <20150918235900.gf30...@ns1.bonedaddy.net> > > > * Noel Chiappa [150918 07:25]: > > So I see this sold - anyone know who got it? > > > > Noel > > Yes. I did. I'll let people know what's up when I receive it. Though > i don't expect to get much time with it for a while. > > Todd
Re: IBM 026
* Jay West [150919 19:42]: > > Marc wrote... > > Well, hopefully this community is about celebrating people that have an > interest in saving old valuable hardware. Not bullying them. > > Ditto. Offlist email sent. > > > Saving substantial hardware involves a substantial personal investment in > time and money. So, Todd, well done, congratulations on your buy, and thanks > for taking care of a rare 026. And if you need any tips for restoration I > would be happy to help (I have an 026 and an 029, both fully functional > now). > > Agreed. I've always half-way wanted a 026, and I have no doubt that $899 is > a reasonable price (for me). The only thing stopping me is no system to hook > it up to. But then, there's always the classiccmp "law of attraction" ;) > > J > Thank you Jay. Todd
Re: IBM 026
* William Donzelli [150919 19:44]: > > I don't know who pissed in your corn flakes but don't piss in mine. > > I am pretty sure I need to start using this phrase. > > -- > Will I certainly can't claim it as original with me (from a friend who has passed who also used "don't sh*t in my mess kit" as well.) Probably not original with him either but sometimes just so appropriate. Todd
Re: IBM 026
If somebody has one that they will sell for less than $100, then they can get away with saying that that is what it is worth. Otherwise, "value" has no quantifier other than what some buyer and some seller agree on. My parents sold their 57 Chevy station wagon for $50 in 1965. What is it worth now? When I was at Goddard Space Center, we had an 026 connected to a Gerber Data Digitizer (an oversized etch-a-sketch). When you hit the foot pedal, it would punch two three digit numbers of the current coordinates of the crosshairs. That one, surely, would be worth LESS that $100, due to the extra work that would be required to get that extra stuff out of it.
re: Backups [was Re: Is tape dead?]
At 09:55 AM 9/18/2015, Fred Cisin wrote: >CryptoLocker has been around for a year. I don't think that McAfee nor AVG >see it. "Well, it's not a VIRUS, . . ." Yes and no. The bad guys work very hard to evade detection. They're always developing new wrappers to deliver the old payloads. The other recent development that makes me want to quit? Someone's demonstrated you can hide in the firmware of hard drives. https://blog.kaspersky.com/equation-hdd-malware/7623/ - John
RE: IBM 026
> > > XYZZY. hopefully banishing the creature back to the cave. > > > > Plugh (for good measure) > > > > > Y2 A hollow voice says "Cretin" -tony
