RE: Reproducing old machines with newer technology (Re: PDP-12 at the RICM)
> -Original Message- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay Jaeger > Sent: 16 July 2015 01:56 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology (Re: PDP-12 at > the RICM) > > Saul is indeed cited in the ACM article, > > http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=365671 > > I know that Purdue had some folks that did their own maintenance, and > sure, by the late 1960's one could certain pick them up cheap - the gold > scrappers were not quite the issue they became later. I know this because, > besides the 7094 II that I did some work on (including replacing a germanium > transistor with a modern silicon one at one point), the U. Wisconsin > Chemistry department had a 7090 (oil core) on the 9th floor. Some folks > from Purdue came up at one point and helped fix a problem with it. > > Around 1975 the IBM 1410 and the IBM 7094 II we played with at UW were > sold to a company in Ohio - or at least pieces were. Paul Pierce and I went > back to that same company in 1998 and recovered some of the IBM > 1410 and IBM 709x tapes that he lists on his site - Paul has an amazing setup > where he reads the tapes *analog* using a 7 track drive, and then post- > processes the results to de-skew and recover the data. > > JRJ > Apparently the School of Medicine, Manchester University, England were given a 7090 which they later connected to a PDP-8. A bit of googling turned this up :- http://www.ukuug.org/newsletter/linux-newsletter/linux@uk12/dclark.shtml sadly Dave passed away about a year ago, but he kept many tapes and card decks the which are with the TNMOC at Bletchly. Dave > On 7/15/2015 7:12 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > > On 07/15/2015 04:05 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: > > > >> Paul adapted PUFFT (Purdue University Fast FORTRAN Translator) to do > >> RS-232 bit serial I/O through a sense switch, and I wrote a spooling > >> program that ran on a Datacraft 6024 located in the same room to do > >> the card reading and printing. I suppose somewhere inside of it the > >> DC 6024 was humiliated - I expect that it was much faster than the > >> 7094 II. ;) > > > > I remember PUFFT--that was Saul Rosen's baby, wasn't it? A FORTRAN > > for undergrads--put in anything that *resembled* a FORTRAN statement > > and get some sort of result. Missing parentheses? Misspelling? > > Outright syntax errors? No problem. I think Purdue had two 709x > > systems for PUFFT The CDC 6500 was reserved for Serious Work. > > > > I understand that at the time, 7090/7094's were comparatively > > plentiful and (comparatively) inexpensive, hence their use. > > > >> Liquid nitrogen would be the "or worse" part. ;) > > > > Neil had a lot of interesting stories about the ETA-10 (originally > > named the GF-10 for the target of 10 gigaflops). It all seemed so > > fantastic back then. > > > > Ah, it's all fun... > > > > --Chuck > > > > > > > > > >
RE: Time to dig out some of my DEC XX2247 keys
It should be possible to duplicate a flat key on something like the Roland Modela 3-d milling machine. It might take a day to scan and a day to mill but it should be possible... > -Original Message- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck > Guzis > Sent: 16 July 2015 02:04 > To: gene...@classiccmp.org; discuss...@classiccmp.org:On-Topic and Off- > Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Time to dig out some of my DEC XX2247 keys > > On 07/15/2015 05:39 PM, Ali wrote: > > > Maybe on the DEC keys but trying to make a key for an IBM lock proved > > impossible (i.e. make a key from the lock - not copy a key). Most lock > > smith I talked to said they did not do that kind of work. > > Sure, and there are locks for which blanks are not available. I ran into that > with a bit of Mitsubishi gear--I had a loaned key and went around town trying > to get a duplicate for myself. Initially, the reaction was "sure, no problem" > and then the oddball key dimensions sunk in. I ended up removing the lock-- > it was simply easiest. > > But it sounds as if these XX2247 keys aren't particularly rare, nor are they > beyond the possibility of duplication. > > --Chuck
RE: Time to dig out some of my DEC XX2247 keys
> It should be possible to duplicate a flat key on something like the Roland > Modela 3-d milling machine. It might > take a day to scan and a day to mill but it should be possible... For a cylinder (Yale type) key, it is trivial to cut a copy if you can get the blank. The blank has the side grooves already cut, you have to cut the 'jagged row of notches' in the top to make it the right key. At least one person here has a keycutting machine to do that. The problem comes if the blank is 'restricted'. Sometimes locks were made with unobtainable blanks to prevent keys being copied. Often the side grooves are a mirror image of a standard blank. For example the keys to my bedsit and the keys to the place where I worked were like that. The former blank could be obtained, the latter could only be obtained (and reputable locksmiths would enforce this) if you had the right paperwork from the owner of the local (== company where I worked in this case). Makes a lot of sense. Of course with a milling cutter you can make just about anything. But as with all locks the idea is to make it more attractive for the criminal to go somewhere else :-) I would be surprised if the blank for the 11/05/GT40 key was restricted. After all you can bypass that secutrity with a screwdriver and a bit of wire. But it may well be that it is a non-standard blank that most locksmiths don't carry (at least in the UK), and that they would rather not take on the work. I have met countless examples of that from all trades in my life The same might be true of the ACE key. It takes a special keycutting machine to cut those, and most of the high-street key cutting places over here don't have it. The next issue is making a key if you don't have one but do have the lock. This is considerably harder than copying a key, and again the keycutting (only) companies can't do it and locksmiths may not want the work (or may think you won't pay a fair price for it). Often if you have the bare lock mechanism they will make a key if you are prepared to pay, on the grounds that you have got past it anyway, so having the key is no risk to security. But you have to talk to them. In the case (!) of the IBM5170 lock, you can remove it by opening the case (Hard if locked, but a screwdriver in the right place will get it free), then taking off the LED panel, removing the label from the front of it, taking the nut and locking lever off the back of it and then sliding off the clip. I think this is shown in the HMS manual. Now, the lock will come apart. On the side is a metal pin. Either drill it out, or drill and tap a centre hole and use a screw to pull it out. The latter is preferable in that the pin can then go back. The internals of the lock all slide out, scattering pins and springs everywhere. IIRC there are 8 springs and bottom pins (all the same) which go in the housing and 7 upper pins which go in the rotating disk. By changing the latter you can make the lock take any key. I have often thought I should re-pin my 5170 to take the XX2247 key (it will fit apart from the pinning). Kits of pins are available, but not easily, and locksmiths don't like selling 7 pins (or any other spare parts). Whether they think you are taking work from them, or whether they have the incorrect idea that anybody who fiddles with locks is up to no good I do not know. But I am going to have this problem soon I think. It appears the key to my P854 was one of the (far too many) things to go walkabout during the move. I want to keep that machine original, so I am going to have to dismantle the lockswitch (Yale type key) and cut a replacement... Oh well... -tony > -Original Message- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck > Guzis > Sent: 16 July 2015 02:04 > To: gene...@classiccmp.org; discuss...@classiccmp.org:On-Topic and Off- > Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Time to dig out some of my DEC XX2247 keys > > On 07/15/2015 05:39 PM, Ali wrote: > > > Maybe on the DEC keys but trying to make a key for an IBM lock proved > > impossible (i.e. make a key from the lock - not copy a key). Most lock > > smith I talked to said they did not do that kind of work. > > Sure, and there are locks for which blanks are not available. I ran into that > with a bit of Mitsubishi gear--I had a loaned key and went around town trying > to get a duplicate for myself. Initially, the reaction was "sure, no problem" > and then the oddball key dimensions sunk in. I ended up removing the lock-- > it was simply easiest. > > But it sounds as if these XX2247 keys aren't particularly rare, nor are they > beyond the possibility of duplication. > > --Chuck
Re: Time to dig out some of my DEC XX2247 keys
* Ethan Dicks [150715 23:18]: > On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 9:48 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > > On 07/15/2015 06:37 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote: > > > >> Heck, I could crank out at least 40 of them tonight... > >> I guess I'll just need to pass on that extra $4000 > >> of income. :D > > > > Just think of what they'd go for if they were *gold-plated*... > > With rosewood handles... > > -ethan And rubbed down with whale oil...
Re: Time to dig out some of my DEC XX2247 keys
> From: tony duell > The problem comes if the blank is 'restricted'. ... > I would be surprised if the blank for the 11/05/GT40 key was restricted. It's not; IYWR I recently had a bunch of 11/05 keys made for people here, and it just used a standard blank. (In fact, there were several different ones that worked; it's a very short key, and there are different length blanks.) Noel
Re: Microsoft multiuser Basic for the Altair 8800
First of all, safety first when working around these power supplies. You have mains voltage exposed all over the place, including the front panel switch. What I typically do is take it all the boards out and disconnect the power supply, and pull it out. I then re-form the capacitors by taking them off completely or, more often, unsoldering one lead. In one case recently the power supply was regulated (an Altos computer), and the power transistors were inserted through the power supply case and into the board from the backside, making removal both a pain and a little risky, so I just clipped one lead of each larger in place to do the re-forming (it turned out that in that particular case, they really didn't need it). I'd be pretty surprised if you actually had to replace your capacitors. For reforming I have had pretty good luck with a 4.7K ohm resistor in serial with the capacitor, and in more than half the cases, the capacitors really didn't need it. The transformer is either good or not - and it is probably just fine. Just measure its output voltages. Do make sure that the transformer is wired for your voltage depending upon where you live. One could disconnect it first, but the odds of it putting out too high a voltage are very very slim, so long as it is wired for the mains voltage wherever you happen to live. Bad ones either put out nothing for one of the voltages (open winding) or get hot (shorted winding). Neither is dangerous to the rest of the power supply. Then, check all the voltages to make sure they are not way too high, and throw and oscilloscope on it to make sure that there isn't a whole lot of ripple (typically caused by a bad rectifier). Remember that on the original Altair and most S100 machines each board had its own regulator, so this isn't an exact thing. (On my machine, I actually had to add a second 8V supply in order to provide power for a backplane completely full of boards.) For bootstraps, perhaps look for a ROM board on eBay (a Bytesaver or the like), and burn yourself a ROM. For a serial card, you can find T-UART or IMSAI MIO and the like show up on eBay pretty frequently. Be patient so you don't overpay. ;) Real MITS Altair cards come up far less frequently. Make sure you research (say, on bitsavers.org/pdf) which ones support current loop if you really want to hook up a real teletype. Not sure where you'd find your multi-user basic, but there is quite a lot of Altair/S100 software available as part of the SimH environment, and a separate web site at http://schorn.ch/altair_6.php JRJ On 7/15/2015 1:56 PM, Kip Koon wrote: > Hi Drlegendre, > How did you go about checking things out before you applied power for the > first time (again)? :) I think I need to check out the electrolytic > capacitors and the transformer at least. > In my system, the front panel is wired to the backplane along with the power > supply wires so when I do power up, how do I protect everything? > There are screws the power wires come from, but they are difficult to get to. > Do I need to consider replacing any other caps? > Do you have a write up about your experience? Any help you can give in the > hardware department is most appreciated. Thanks in advance. Take care my > friend. > > Kip Koon > computer...@sc.rr.com > http://www.cocopedia.com/wiki/index.php/Kip_Koon > > > >> -Original Message- >> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of drlegendre . >> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 1:15 AM >> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >> Subject: Re: Microsoft multiuser Basic for the Altair 8800 >> >> Hey Kip >> >> I can't help you with the software, but I just finished an Altair >> restoration (my first) a few months ago, and am still interested in getting >> the machine connected and actually doing something interesting. The Altair >> was almost totally below the radar by the time I really >> started getting up to speed on micros, which would have been around >> 1983-1984 or so. This one was sort-of given to me by a former >> colleague of mine, around eight years ago. It was a total basket case, a >> real pile.. but it seems to be sorted at this point. >> >> It would be great if you'd let me follow along, keep in touch and let me >> know how you're working to get the Altair linked up to the >> term, getting the system bootstrapped, loading software, etc.. that's been a >> problem here, figuring out the serial I card (or finding one >> to replace it, that does have docs). >> >> Best, >> Bill >> >> On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 11:56 PM, Kip Koon wrote: >> >>> Hi Guys, >>> >>> I have finally decided to restore my original Altair 8800 which has >>> been in storage for over 30 years. Does anyone have a copy of >>> Microsoft's Multiuser Disk Extended Basic for the Altair 8800? When I >>> was in college in '79 to '81, in the computer room was an ASR-33 >>> Teletype and 3 Learseigler terminals connected to an Altair
Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology (Re: PDP-12 at the RICM)
On 07/16/2015 01:12 AM, Dave G4UGM wrote: Apparently the School of Medicine, Manchester University, England were given a 7090 which they later connected to a PDP-8. A bit of googling turned this up :- http://www.ukuug.org/newsletter/linux-newsletter/linux@uk12/dclark.shtml Nice article. Many folks fail to appreciate the link between medicine and the history of computing. In particular, my first encounter with database technology came from a study of MEDLARS, the system still in existence today at the NIH. What I found particularly fascinating was the ability to automatically organize text documents and then subject them to English-language querying and getting results. (All done on tape, naturally) I'm reminded of this when I look over at my bookshelf and see Gerry Salton's magnum opus "Automatic Information Organization and Retrieval" sitting on a shelf. MEDLARS figures prominently in this book. Back then, it was pretty hot stuff. Of course, now we have Google... --Chuck
Re: Time to dig out some of my DEC XX2247 keys
On Wed, 15 Jul 2015, jwsmobile wrote:
Stamp sets are 10 or 20 bucks @ harbor freight. But that isn't the problem.
http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/stamping/36-piece-18-in-steel-letternumber-stamping-set-60670.html
How hard is it to set up a CNC mill to engrave letters and numbers?
BUT, being DEC, what FONT should be used?
I found a grumpy old locksmith (not Fred) who told me the state of the
problem at least for the state of California. Locksmiths by and large are
licensed to open doors if they have the appropriate authority to do so, etc.
1) Some municipalities limit code-cutting and making a key for a keyless
lock. The premise is that somebody who comes in the door with a piece of
paper that says "XX2247" might not be an authorized holder of that key.
One town here requires bringing in the lock. Another wants the lock, ID,
and a request "ON LETTERHEAD". How hard is it to create staionery?
Reputable locksmiths will refuse to duplicate a key that is stamped "DO
NOT DUPLICATE" without through proof that you are the rightful owner;
hardware stores require that there be a piece of masking tape over that
stamping.
Some areas are more uptight than others.
2) Some manufacturers do not want third party code cutting, and do not
release code books. In fact SOME third party code books are even compiled
by data collected from locksmith users who measure the cuts ("decode")
whichever keys they come across.
Some, such as Medeco? and Abloy? would prefer to have the customer provide
their serial number to the manufacturer to order a key. Toyota does that
on their "LASER!" keys (which do NOT require a laser to cut, and my
originals show machining marks, not laser burns)
3) not all locks/keys are stamped with their codes. Sometimes the code is
algorithmically generated, such as being the sequence of cuts IN REVERSE
ORDER (why not upgrade to ROT-13?) On cars, for example, the code for
all of the locks in the car may only be stamped on one lock (inside
passenger door?), on a little piece of paper in the glovebox (Nissan Z),
etc.
For the keys, lock and key sets for this sort of key are restricted by the
manufacturer to be only made for the lock by the manufacturer. They don't
have the key blanks.
4) Some key blanks are very limited in their distribution by the
manufacturer. BEST did not want other manufacturers making keys with the
same milling as theirs (both anti-competition, AND security of the lock),
so they tried to PATENT their millings. Didn't work, but did seriously
limit the availability of blanks for their "PKS" keyways.
ACE (tubular) key blanks are NOT at all hard to come by. I would have
doubts about any locksmith who can't cut ACE keys!
The local Home Depot has cleared out the selection of key blanks, and
filled the entire board with an amazing variety of novelty bows and
colors, but only Schlage "C" keyway and Kwikset "KW1". They do not have
Ace keys blanks.
Yes, it is not a major feat to make a key blank, but few will do so.
It takes a little bit of competence with a milling machine (or a lathe for
tubular keys)
BTW, for "mirror image" keyways, are longer blanks available? (6 pin in a
5 pin keyway, etc.) Cut off the bow, and turn it around, . . .
5) A key cutting machine is a triangle file, spinning grinding wheel, or
anvil clipper. For an Ace key, it is a drill press with end-mill. For
automotive "LASER!" cut keys, it is side-mill. When I bought my new car,
instead of hundreds of dollars and "special order" waits at the dealer, I
bought a handful of blanks on eBay. The local competent locksmith had a
"sidewinder" machine but no blanks. He was quite happy to cut a few keys
in exchange for a few extra blanks, and my over hundred dollar three to
six week special order keys ended up costing me a couple of dollars each.
For automotive use, prior to the current fancy ass keys, the basic tool
was the Curtis Clipper, which with various carriages and cams could cut
almost any. I don't know why they never released housekey cams and
carriages for it.
At one time, there was a commercial code cutting key machine that was a
converted Unimat!
For Ace keys, the most common cutter looks like a sewing machine motor
horizontal drill press, but there is also the Herty-Gerty which is a
handheld that looks like a windup music box, and the Pocket-Cut-Up, which
looks like a miniature Curta Calculator
It is not uncommon for cutting Ace keys to decode the original, and then
cut the duplicate by code.
6) Duplicating a key is obviously trivial, although with a sufficient lack
of skill, it is easy to produce ones that aren't accurate enough to work.
Cutting a key from code requires the code (stamped on the lock, on a
broken key, on a key held by somebody elsewhere with a phone), a code
book, a code cutting machine, but even less skill.
Making a key for a lock WITHOUT an original nor code, requires skill.
Many locksmiths don't have the
Re: Time to dig out some of my DEC XX2247 keys
Todd Goodman wrote: > * Ethan Dicks [150715 23:18]: > > On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 9:48 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > > > On 07/15/2015 06:37 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote: > > > > > >> Heck, I could crank out at least 40 of them tonight... > > >> I guess I'll just need to pass on that extra $4000 > > >> of income. :D > > > > > > Just think of what they'd go for if they were *gold-plated*... > > > > With rosewood handles... > > > > -ethan > > And rubbed down with whale oil... > Specifically, well whale oil... Regards, Peter Coghlan.
Re: Time to dig out some of my DEC XX2247 keys
- Original Message - From: "Rick Murphy" To: "Pete Turnbull" ; ; <"discuss...@classiccmp.org:"@classiccmp.org> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:32 PM Subject: Re: Time to dig out some of my DEC XX2247 keys At 08:51 PM 7/15/2015, Pete Turnbull wrote: To the best of my knowledge, there are only three keys: the tubular XX2247 which is used on most -8s and -11s including my 8/es and 11/34, the one that looks like a filing cabinet key used on just a few machines (all keyed alike), and the plastic "key" used on later Vaxen as well as the 11/24 - albeit in a variety of colours of plastic. There's also a XX3651 used on some PDP-11 models. I have both that and the XX2247 in mint condition. :) -Rick - Reply - FWIW, before they went to the funky flat keys with dimples on the side Cromemco also used tubular ACE keys; AFAIK they were all the same, number XX4306. m
Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology
- Original Message - From: "Chuck Guzis" To: ; "discuss...@classiccmp.org:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 5:47 PM Subject: Re: Reproducing old machines with newer technology On 07/14/2015 02:05 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote: Going all the way back to at least the IBM 7090, and presumably the 709, though I have not actually checked. The B5000 had IO processors as well. Again, you're missing the point. The system *starts* with a PPU and loads the CPU up to run. OS was pretty much entirely within the PPUs. PPUs have autonomous access to the entire memory space of the CPU and use the "exchange jump" to switch it to a task. ... --Chuck - Reply - Not the same thing of course but remotely on-topic, and I never miss an opportunity to put in a plug for Cromemco: By comparison, Cromemco used semi-autonomous 4MHz Z80A SBCs for their I/O processors, with 16KB of local RAM and up to 32KB of ROM; communication with peripheral cards is via a separate 50-pin 'C-Bus'. What's interesting and sort-of-relevant is that later versions of Cromix (their UNIX work-alike) could use the IOP to run Z80 programs, especially useful in a system having only a 680x0 main CPU. FWIW, their hard disk controller also used a 4MHz Z80A with 8KB ROM and 64KB RAM that could cache 4 entire tracks. m
Re: Time to dig out some of my DEC XX2247 keys
On 7/16/2015 10:51 AM, Peter Coghlan wrote: Forget new keys ... the old key and WD-40 Is all the keyed stuff just power on type switches or do we have real padlocked type stuff?
Re: Time to dig out some of my DEC XX2247 keys
If you want a real key challenge, try those used by mid-90s IBM AS/400s. They were electronic; a lozenge-shaped slab of plastic with a bunch of contacts concealed in one end, and a chip of some kind inside (I never dared hack one apart!) IIRC, from the time I tried to obtain a spare, they weren't made by IBM; the system was subcontracted out to a Native American owned company on a reservation somewhere. (The key in question was used to lock and unlock the front panel, select IPL modes etc) Mike On Jul 16, 2015 2:49 PM, "ben" wrote: > On 7/16/2015 10:51 AM, Peter Coghlan wrote: > Forget new keys ... the old key and WD-40 > Is all the keyed stuff just power on type switches > or do we have real padlocked type stuff? > > > >
Wang Model 370
Howdy, Went on a rescue last night and while there were three machines I knew of (a PDP-11 that I'll give more details on later, haven't looked at boards, etc, since it was part of a Particle Measuring System, an HP 85-ish machine and a slightly later HP machine) there was one thing that I hadn't known about... (aside from the very cool old GE 'scope that the guy is keeping... ) A Wang Model 370 Calculating System with a Model 372 Data Storage System. Gotta say this is the oldest thing I've picked up (1967 it came out). No idea if it powers up or not... Definitely needs a cleaning (basement, fairly dusty unit) but before I did anything, was wondering if there are any experts out there that have worked on one of these before who'd be willing to share any helpful hints on verifying this is working... Thanks... EarltheSquirrel
Re: Wang Model 370
On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Earl Baugh wrote: > A Wang Model 370 Calculating System with a Model 372 Data Storage System. > > Gotta say this is the oldest thing I've picked up (1967 it came out). No > idea if it powers up or not... > Definitely needs a cleaning (basement, fairly dusty unit) but before I did > anything, was wondering if there are any experts out there that have > worked on one of these before who'd be willing to share any helpful hints > on verifying this is working... I can't offer any authoritative advice but I'll be listening for inspirational tales. I've got two Model 360 base units and a few terminals in various states of not working. I did once manage to get two of the terminals to do some addition when attached to the base unit. Division was too much for it :) I have one of the punched-card readers but the 372 unit I have never seen. These have to be among the oldest things in my collection also. And quite cool, too: core memory, microswitches and Nixies! -j
RE: Wang Model 370
Earl wrote: > > > A Wang Model 370 Calculating System with a Model 372 Data Storage > System. > > Gotta say this is the oldest thing I've picked up (1967 it came out). No > idea if it powers up or not... > Definitely needs a cleaning (basement, fairly dusty unit) but before I did > anything, was wondering if there are any experts out there that have > worked on one of these before who'd be willing to share any helpful hints > on verifying this is working... > A great find! However, if you just have the 370 keyboard/display unit and the 372 storage unit, it isn't of much use. The 370 has to plug into a 300-series calculator electronics package, preferably a 362E (best), 360E (OK), or 360SE. One of these serves as the calculator brains for the 370. Also, to program the 370, you really need a model 371 punched card reader. The 370 is programmed entirely by punched cards. You can hang up to four 371 card punch readers (daisy-chained) off the 370 to make programs up to something like (IIRC) 320 program steps.The 372 Data Storage System connects into the 370 keyboard unit as a peripheral to the calculating system. It programs magnetic-core storage registers that augment the storage registers within the 300-Series calculating unit. The 372 memory is addressed through a I/O instructions that are executed by the 370 keyboard unit. Before powering any of it up, electrolytic capacitors in the power supplies of everything should be checked out, and reformed or replaced. Check all fuses, and if any are blown, figure out why before proceeding. Power up over a period of at least an hour slowing ramping up the power with a Variac. I strongly suggest removing all circuit boards and cleaning both the circuit board edge connector fingers and sockets with a good contact cleaner like De-Ox-It. Wang cheaped out and didn't use gold plated edge connector fingers or sockets. Tin oxidizes and causes resistance that can wreak havoc on these machines. I've got a working 370/371 system connected up to a Wang 362E Calculator Electronics Package in the Old Calculator Museum's collection. It's quite a beast. I haven't had a chance yet to document on the museum's website, though. The 370 was built as a rush-job to try to provide real programmability with looping and conditionals to the 300-series calculators after Dr. An Wang was invited to a private showing of HP's 9100A prototype. Dr. Wang knew the days of the 300-series were numbered one the HP machine was on the market, so he rushed a project through to make the 370. It really didn't do all that well and paled in comparison to the HP 9100A.Along with the 370, Dr. Wang also redirected a project intended to allow Wang to compete with IBM in the computer marketplace to turn the computer that engineering was developing into a new programmable desktop calculator. This ended up being the Wang 700-series, which were very capable machines, but still not nearly as elegant as HP's 9100A/9100B. By the time the 700-series was on the market, HP had introduced the next generation (9810/9820) calculators, which, though larger, were very powerful. Please don't hesitate to get in touch if you have any questions about your find. I'm more than happy to help out however I can. Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Museum http://oldcalculatormuseum.com
Retrochallenge Update (was Re: How many use old browsers (e.g. =< Netscape 4 or IE 6) as their ONLY source of web content?)
On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Terry Stewart wrote: > Hi, > > I'm engaged in a Retrochallenge project where I'm recoding my > classic-computers.org.nz site to make it suitable for mobile platforms. > I want to modernise the code as well, making it as close to HTML5 standard > as I can > > Since I did ask about this, some on this list might be interested in my progress with this project. The pages are still a long way from conforming to strict HTML5 standards but at least they are now all mobile-friendy. http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2015-06-29-recoding-classic-computers.org.nz.htm#latest Cheers Terry (Tez)
Re: Retrochallenge Update (was Re: How many use old browsers (e.g. =< Netscape 4 or IE 6) as their ONLY source of web content?)
>Terry Stewart wrote: On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Terry Stewart wrote: Hi, I'm engaged in a Retrochallenge project where I'm recoding my classic-computers.org.nz site to make it suitable for mobile platforms. I want to modernise the code as well, making it as close to HTML5 standard as I can Since I did ask about this, some on this list might be interested in my progress with this project. The pages are still a long way from conforming to strict HTML5 standards but at least they are now all mobile-friendy. http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2015-06-29-recoding-classic-computers.org.nz.htm#latest Cheers Terry (Tez) I would like to add the ability to check for Merseene Prime numbers to PDP-11 systems. The Lucas–Lehmer primality test at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas%E2%80%93Lehmer_primality_test provides an almost trivial algorithm to use. When the values are small (less than 65K or when the original prime is less than 15), the calculation is able to use integers of just 4 bytes. I have managed to produce multi-precision subroutines for the PDP-11 which handle unsigned integers up to 10^160 which supports the calculation for integers up to 10^80. Unfortunately, the largest original prime which qualifies is 127, or not very large at all. What I really need is to figure out the calculations needed to perform: the Schönhage–Strassen algorithm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sch%C3%B6nhage%E2%80%93Strassen_algorithm Does anyone have any hints how to actually turn the algorithm into code? When the values that must be squared are millions of 32-bit values long (really not too big, just 4 MB after all), the classical method to multiply 2 values which are each one million elements long takes one trillion multiplications plus many additions. The Schönhage–Strassen algorithm should reduce that to about one billion multiplications. Can anyone suggest where I can find something that explains the Schönhage–Strassen algorithm in a manner without all the FFT jargon getting in the way? Jerome Fine
OpenVMS Alpha V7.3
Anyone got an ISO handy? Trying to get my 3000/400 up; V7.0 firmware; and it does not like the OpenVMS V8.4 ISOs I got from HP ... I do have a valid Hobbyist license ... please chat with me off-list? Thanks, Sean
Re: OpenVMS Alpha V7.3
Maybe my RRD45 doesn't like the "700 MB CD" ... does anyone know if it's possible to bootstrap the installation from my existing CISC VAXcluster with the ALPHA084*.ISO images I got from HP? Cross-platform MOP boot from the VAX with the *.ISO images mounted locally on the VAX, perhaps? I assume it's just a save set that's restored with the BACKUP command once one can actually get to the point of a DCL prompt on the machine? Best, Sean On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 7:19 PM, Sean Caron wrote: > Anyone got an ISO handy? Trying to get my 3000/400 up; V7.0 firmware; and > it does not like the OpenVMS V8.4 ISOs I got from HP ... I do have a valid > Hobbyist license ... please chat with me off-list? > > Thanks, > > Sean > >
ALTOS 8000-2 Boot ROM Questions
OK, so I got my nice shiny Z80-A CTC chip in the mail today, stuck it into the ALTOS, and I now get the expected "%" prompt. So, one problem fixed. So, not having a real floppy with the diagnostics or CP/M image on it, I ran the Single Sided, Single Density diagnostic image on bitsavers.org/bits/altos/Altos_8000_Family_disk_images/Non-DMA_Version_-_single_density_format/ALTS8DIA.TD0 which is the ALTOS Diagnostic Monitor Version 1.11 into my HxC Floppy Simulator (with a suitable 8" to 5" connector). I have tested this device before on an IMSAI with a 4FDC using the "Mini" connector (which has more standard signals available, as opposed to the 4FDC's 50 pin connector, which depends upon a data separator in the drive), with a standard IBM format 77 track image, and it works fine - can run CP/M that way, for example. But this cable is new, though thoroughly checked when I built it last week. On the ALTOS, the disk image does not boot. This usually results in repeated % prompts as the system tries to boot. (but not always - it may not do this, I think, if certain of the below commands have been entered.) And it seems to know whether or not a floppy is available, probably by monitoring the READY signal. With no floppy media present, then after the "%", I get a "*" prompt from the boot ROM. After playing around I discovered the following commands, and was wondering if anyone can give me insight into the behavior of B, F, I, J, P and U. The ACS 8000 documentation on bitsavers talks about the "%" oputput, but nothing else. B - I have no idea what this does (Does NOT seem to be a Branch) D - Dumps 16 bytes beginning at F - This appears floppy related, and responds with a two digit response. F1 seeks to track 136 (odd, that, but that is what it does - on a real drive it seeks to the stop past track 76). F0 seeks back to track 0. F2 seeks to track 137 if you are already at 136. (I am currently wondering if this just sends a command to the floppy controller - have to look at its command structure). I - I have no idea what this does J - Not 100% sure what this does, but if I put "C3 00 10" at location 1000 with the "S" command, below, then after a reset (or not), if I do a "D 1000" then "J 1000" goes into lala land, and if I put a "C3 00 00" at location 1000, then "J 1000" gives me the % prompt (the Boot ROM starts at location 0). This suggests it is probably a Jump command. However, if you don't do a "D" command first, "J" seems to just dump the memory at the indicated location. P - I have no idea what this does, but it repeats a line starting with , so it knows what is. S hh hh hh hh - Substitutes into memory starting at address U - I have no idea what this does, either, but it seems to be sensitive to the floppy. Thanks in advance for any help. (The good news here is that between D, S and J I can probably arrange to load in little diagnostics programs to test this and that). JRJ
