OT: Re: email gripe

[Vincent Slyngstad]

From: jwsmobile: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 5:47 PM

On 7/7/2015 4:18 PM, Vincent Slyngstad wrote:
I might want to follow your link, if I have sufficient interest and 
trust, but I want to have to make that decision *before* entering the 
spy filled, all-singing, all-dancing hype arena.


I agree with this.  I am not aware of a useful reader of email which 
supports html that does not block offline content.  Thunderbird requires 
you hit a button to activate remote content. 


I'm not aware of a "current" reader that won't let you configure 
at least some security settings to play it safe.  But I'm aware of 
many (especially web based ones) where the default settings 
are not what I'd call safe.  And the basic objection is to a world 
where I need to become an expert on what's "safe" just to read

my mail.

I usually forward such to 
a yahoo or gmail account if I have doubts about the embedded content.  


Not clear how that would help.

What are you using which allows day zero type activation of any html 
content?  As I said, I don't use any web based readers or archivers for 
the reason you cite, but I've never had a problem with any content.


My phone does this, for example.  Though it is set up to block images, 
it seems happy to run javascript and accept cookies whether I want it 
to or not.


   Vince 

Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2015-07-08 01:19, Antonio Carlini wrote:

On 07/07/15 23:02, Johnny Billquist wrote:

Right. But I did say "some". :-)

Think 8978 for example...



Does that really count as a VAX? It was just a marketing name for
cluster ...


Good question. The designation definitely existed, but yes, it's just a 
cluster of 8 8800 machines. But the size of that thing...


Johnny

--
Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

Re: email gripe

[Peter Coghlan]

jwsmobile  wrote:

On 7/7/2015 12:43 PM, Sean Conner wrote:

It was thus said that the Great jwsmobile once stated:

sending live URL's in the text that don't require a multi step copy
paste, or even save email edit, feed to lynx would be nice.  Html email
does that.

   There are some on this list (such as I) that do not use a graphical email
client, but a text-mode email  client. [1]

   -spc (And the etiquette for this list is inline or bottom posting, not
top)

[1] To even look at a attached PDF, for example, I have to save it
first, then download it to view it.
Most of us have either browser embedded PDF viewers, or Adobe associated 
with PDF's and are one click away.

Yes, I do check my email on the server using a command line program
[2].

[2] mutt.  I was forced to upgrade a decade ago because elm was no
longer maintained and non-Y2K compliant (I think that's why I
switched).


I just don't see inconveniencing an entire list because a few people 
want to run on internet connected 286 machines, with attached ASR33's.


And to say that should carry much weight on selecting the format of the 
email is pretty inconsiderate to everyone.


If there were a technical reason to keep it in a simple format that 
would be fine, but as Al K pointed out quite some time ago, Google 
already indexes all of this quite fine as it and most search engines do, 
so the list is text searchable.


As far as email browsing, I have used thunderbird and prior to that the 
same facility in the combined netscape.  The way of all emails seem to 
be towards letting some great and wonderful company such as your ISP, 
Google, Yahoo, or heaven forbid AOL keep all of your email, and present 
it, and even thunderbird has gone into "we don't support it anymore" 
status with Firefox.


So archiving my own email may end up in the same state as your argument 
for text archiving.  However the format of the email won't be an issue 
in my case.




I just can't figure out how Jay manages to keep putting up with us at all.

(I was going to reply to this message because when I read it first, it seemed
to contain some points which I thought I might have a different opinion on.
So I read it again to clarify my thoughts.  The more I re-read it, the less
sense it made to me and I eventually decided I can't disagree with any of
these points because I can't really figure out what they are.  I guess I am
losing my marbles.  My congratulations to those who managed to make enough
sense of it to make considered, insightful replies.)

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.

Re: SDK-86 Chess source code, anybody?

[Nigel Williams]

On 8 Jul 2015, at 7:57 am, Randy Dawson  wrote:
> Anybody have this?
I'm interested too please.

Re: email gripe

[geneb]

On Tue, 7 Jul 2015, Sean Conner wrote:


[2] mutt.  I was forced to upgrade a decade ago because elm was no
longer maintained and non-Y2K compliant (I think that's why I
switched).


Alpine Forever! :)

g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: email gripe

[Dave Woyciesjes]

On 07/07/2015 07:18 PM, Vincent Slyngstad wrote:

From: jwsmobile: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 3:43 PM

If there were a technical reason to keep it in a simple format that
would be fine, but as Al K pointed out quite some time ago, Google
already indexes all of this quite fine as it and most search engines
do, so the list is text searchable.


For me, HTML mail is disdained because it's a security nightmare.
I don't want to worry about transparent tracking images, cookies,
javascript, and who knows what else they've invented or will invent.

I just want to read what you've got to say.

I might want to follow your link, if I have sufficient interest and
trust, but I want to have to make that decision *before* entering the
spy filled, all-singing, all-dancing hype arena.

Vince


	Ahh, the sweet smell of paranoia... :) Listen, if they want to track & 
watch you, they're doing it already. Using text-only email won't help 
much; give it up.


--
--- Dave Woyciesjes
--- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/
--- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/
Registered Linux user number 464583

"Computers have lots of memory but no imagination."
"The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots back."
- from some guy on the internet.

Re: email gripe

[Todd Goodman]

* Dave Woyciesjes  [150708 10:17]:
> On 07/07/2015 07:18 PM, Vincent Slyngstad wrote:
> > From: jwsmobile: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 3:43 PM
> >> If there were a technical reason to keep it in a simple format that
> >> would be fine, but as Al K pointed out quite some time ago, Google
> >> already indexes all of this quite fine as it and most search engines
> >> do, so the list is text searchable.
> >
> > For me, HTML mail is disdained because it's a security nightmare.
> > I don't want to worry about transparent tracking images, cookies,
> > javascript, and who knows what else they've invented or will invent.
> >
> > I just want to read what you've got to say.
> >
> > I might want to follow your link, if I have sufficient interest and
> > trust, but I want to have to make that decision *before* entering the
> > spy filled, all-singing, all-dancing hype arena.
> >
> > Vince
> 
>   Ahh, the sweet smell of paranoia... :) Listen, if they want to track & 
> watch you, they're doing it already. Using text-only email won't help 
> much; give it up.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!
:-)

It's not "they" (meaning some state sponsered spy program) that's the
big problem, it's the hundreds of spam malware that's sent using email
and image or other "auto loading features" of mail programs as an attack
vector.

It's why everyone I know who isn't really computer saavy and runs windows
has to wipe and reinstall regularly.

Todd

Re: email gripe

[Dave Woyciesjes]

On 07/07/2015 09:06 PM, Sean Conner wrote:


   ...But I've tried using a GUI to check email and frankly, I
found it too painful to use.  It wasn't that the GUI was confusing or
inconsistent, but that it was *way too slow*.  Sluggish to display, and
painfully slow to download (it's not unusual for me to receive everal
hundred emails per day).  By checking email on the server using a command
line tool, I can do the filtering upon receipt (not when downloading) and
blast through two emails in the time it would take a GUI to display one.

   Right now, I'm using an iPad (and a Bluetooth keyboard) with an SSH client
to check my email.  I get to use an email client I'm familiar with for
reading, along with my preferred editor to write this email.

	Wait, what? The email GUI on an iPad is too slow? What's wrong with 
that device? Or is there a problem with your server?



--
--- Dave Woyciesjes
--- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/
--- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/
Registered Linux user number 464583

"Computers have lots of memory but no imagination."
"The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots back."
- from some guy on the internet.

Re: email gripe

[Dave Woyciesjes]

On 07/07/2015 11:24 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:

On 07/07/2015 07:27 PM, wulfman wrote:

yes html email gets deleted for the most part


I don't have that option--customers send whatever they want.
Another annoyance is when they send attachments in that Outlook
winmail.dat format.  I think that Libre office can open it.

	You said you use TBird, right? Have you looked in to the LookOut Add-In 
for that ailment?

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/lookout/


--
--- Dave Woyciesjes
--- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/
--- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/
Registered Linux user number 464583

"Computers have lots of memory but no imagination."
"The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots back."
- from some guy on the internet.

Re: email gripe

[Dave Woyciesjes]

On 07/08/2015 10:25 AM, Todd Goodman wrote:

* Dave Woyciesjes  [150708 10:17]:

On 07/07/2015 07:18 PM, Vincent Slyngstad wrote:

From: jwsmobile: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 3:43 PM

If there were a technical reason to keep it in a simple format that
would be fine, but as Al K pointed out quite some time ago, Google
already indexes all of this quite fine as it and most search engines
do, so the list is text searchable.


For me, HTML mail is disdained because it's a security nightmare.
I don't want to worry about transparent tracking images, cookies,
javascript, and who knows what else they've invented or will invent.

I just want to read what you've got to say.

I might want to follow your link, if I have sufficient interest and
trust, but I want to have to make that decision *before* entering the
spy filled, all-singing, all-dancing hype arena.

 Vince


Ahh, the sweet smell of paranoia... :) Listen, if they want to track &
watch you, they're doing it already. Using text-only email won't help
much; give it up.


Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!
:-)


But that's a different subject for another thread :P


It's not "they" (meaning some state sponsered spy program) that's the
big problem, it's the hundreds of spam malware that's sent using email
and image or other "auto loading features" of mail programs as an attack
vector.

It's why everyone I know who isn't really computer saavy and runs windows
has to wipe and reinstall regularly.


I haven't had to. And I use TBird.


--
--- Dave Woyciesjes
--- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/
--- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/
Registered Linux user number 464583

"Computers have lots of memory but no imagination."
"The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots back."
- from some guy on the internet.

Re: email gripe

[Mouse]

> Listen, if they want to track & watch you, they're doing it already.
> Using text-only email won't help much; give it up.

While I didn't write the text (which I cut) that the above quote is
responding to, I too stick to text-only for security reasons - but not
just because of the "them" watching and tracking me.

While that is part of it - and, while I recognize that "they" may well
be doing some tracking and watching, they are probably managing
significantly less for me than for most people, and every little bit
helps in any case - there is also a different "them" I'm concerned
with, that being the hordes of spammers, most of whom do not have the
resources to do that kind of wholesale monitoring.

However, there's a much bigger reason: I've yet to see an HTML-capable
MUA with an interface I can stand - and, even if I were to imagine one,
all it would bring over just reading the text/plain part is failing to
notice spam which has drastic differences in content between the
text/plain and text/html parts.

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
 X  Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email!   7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

[Fred Cisin]

On Wed, 8 Jul 2015, Dave Wade wrote:

Personally I think anything with castors on


No.
I have a PC "server" case from late 286 era with tiny casters.
But, it was nice to be able to have more than 4 "full-height" drives.

Re: email gripe

[Fred Cisin]

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!
:-)


We had some difficulties with college administrators that resulted in, 
"The question is not 'are you paranoid?';

the question is 'are you paranoid enough?'"
("There is no expectation of privacy for any actions taken on the 
college's computers nor telephones", even one administrator who would 
temporarily join Yahoo groups in order to search archives for any 
disparaging remarks!  [Hey, John W, eat shit and die!])






It's not "they" (meaning some state sponsered spy program) that's the
big problem, it's the hundreds of spam malware that's sent using email
and image or other "auto loading features" of mail programs as an attack
vector.

It's why everyone I know who isn't really computer saavy and runs windows
has to wipe and reinstall regularly.

Todd



--
Fred Cisin  ci...@xenosoft.com
XenoSofthttp://www.xenosoft.com
PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366
Berkeley, CA 94701-1236

Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

[Toby Thain]

On 2015-07-08 10:46 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:

On Wed, 8 Jul 2015, Dave Wade wrote:

Personally I think anything with castors on


No.
I have a PC "server" case from late 286 era with tiny casters.
But, it was nice to be able to have more than 4 "full-height" drives.




Plus I'm guessing (admittedly) that the Really Big VAX racks don't have 
castors either?


--Toby

Re: email gripe

[Ian S. King]

Oh boy!  Another long, rambling and pointless email rant thread!

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

[Mark J. Blair]

> On Jul 8, 2015, at 08:34, Toby Thain  wrote:
> 
> Plus I'm guessing (admittedly) that the Really Big VAX racks don't have 
> castors either?

The VAX-11/780 has casters. Back in college, a friend and I pushed a 
decommissioned 11/780 out of the computer room and into our boss's tiny office 
while he was out on vacation. We powered up a few blowers and added a hard-copy 
terminal with some text on the paper to make it look like we were trying to 
boot the machine. I wish I was on shift to see his face when he arrived the 
next morning. I was told that his wide-eyed reaction was "... and it's 
RUNNING?!"

Another boss later got the same treatment with a TU77 drive. Good times, good 
times.


-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

[Guy Dawson]

Oh yes they did! And screw down feet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=VAX#/media/File:SPEC-1_VAX_05.jpg

On 8 July 2015 at 16:34, Toby Thain  wrote:

> On 2015-07-08 10:46 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 8 Jul 2015, Dave Wade wrote:
>>
>>> Personally I think anything with castors on
>>>
>>
>> No.
>> I have a PC "server" case from late 286 era with tiny casters.
>> But, it was nice to be able to have more than 4 "full-height" drives.
>>
>>
>>
> Plus I'm guessing (admittedly) that the Really Big VAX racks don't have
> castors either?
>
> --Toby
>
>


-- 
4.4 > 5.4

Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

[Guy Sotomayor]

> On Jul 8, 2015, at 8:34 AM, Toby Thain  wrote:
> 
> On 2015-07-08 10:46 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Jul 2015, Dave Wade wrote:
>>> Personally I think anything with castors on
>> 
>> No.
>> I have a PC "server" case from late 286 era with tiny casters.
>> But, it was nice to be able to have more than 4 "full-height" drives.
>> 
>> 
> 
> Plus I'm guessing (admittedly) that the Really Big VAX racks don't have 
> castors either?

Sure they do.  How else would you move them around?  ;-)

TTFN - Guy

Re: email gripe

[Fred Cisin]

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!
:-)

On Wed, 8 Jul 2015, Fred Cisin wrote:
We had some difficulties with college administrators that resulted in, "The 
question is not 'are you paranoid?';

the question is 'are you paranoid enough?'"
("There is no expectation of privacy for any actions taken on the college's 
computers nor telephones", even one administrator who would temporarily join 
Yahoo groups in order to search archives for any disparaging remarks!  [Hey, 
John W, eat shit and die!])


NOT any of the John W's on this list!  Sorry about that!
This one was similar to the college president in "Horse Feathers".
"All college documents must be prepared in WordPerfect."

Re: email gripe

[Chuck Guzis]

On 07/08/2015 07:30 AM, Dave Woyciesjes wrote:


 You said you use TBird, right? Have you looked in to the LookOut
Add-In for that ailment?
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/lookout/


Thanks for that tip--it definitely looks to be useful.

--Chuck

Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

[Toby Thain]

On 2015-07-08 12:05 PM, Guy Sotomayor wrote:



On Jul 8, 2015, at 8:34 AM, Toby Thain  wrote:

On 2015-07-08 10:46 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:

On Wed, 8 Jul 2015, Dave Wade wrote:

Personally I think anything with castors on


No.
I have a PC "server" case from late 286 era with tiny casters.
But, it was nice to be able to have more than 4 "full-height" drives.




Plus I'm guessing (admittedly) that the Really Big VAX racks don't have castors 
either?


Sure they do.  How else would you move them around?  ;-)


Oh, I know some of them do. I suppose the "screw down feet" mentioned 
come into play when actually installed. Just wasn't sure if castors were 
actually on all the big ones.


--T



TTFN - Guy

Re: email gripe

[Sean Conner]

It was thus said that the Great Dave Woyciesjes once stated:
> On 07/07/2015 09:06 PM, Sean Conner wrote:
> >
> >   ...But I've tried using a GUI to check email and frankly, I
> >found it too painful to use.  It wasn't that the GUI was confusing or
> >inconsistent, but that it was *way too slow*.  Sluggish to display, and
> >painfully slow to download (it's not unusual for me to receive everal
> >hundred emails per day).  By checking email on the server using a command
> >line tool, I can do the filtering upon receipt (not when downloading) and
> >blast through two emails in the time it would take a GUI to display one.
> >
> >   Right now, I'm using an iPad (and a Bluetooth keyboard) with an SSH 
> >   client
> >to check my email.  I get to use an email client I'm familiar with for
> >reading, along with my preferred editor to write this email.
> >
>   Wait, what? The email GUI on an iPad is too slow? What's wrong with 
> that device? Or is there a problem with your server?

  The big ponderous GUI I was talking about is Thunderbird.  Using the
native iPad email client (or any third party ones, if there are any, I don't
know as I haven't checked) would be Yet Another Interface To Learn While I'm
On Vacation [1].

  -spc (I have enough trouble keeping up with the latest programming fads to
keep up with today's GUI du jour)

[1] For what I'm doing on vacation, an iPad with a bluetooth keyboard is
sufficient for my needs.

RE: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

[Dave G4UGM]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred
Cisin
> Sent: 08 July 2015 15:47
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)
> 
> On Wed, 8 Jul 2015, Dave Wade wrote:
> > Personally I think anything with castors on
> 
> No.
> I have a PC "server" case from late 286 era with tiny casters.
> But, it was nice to be able to have more than 4 "full-height" drives.

I meant a VAX with Castors

Dave

RE: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

[Dave G4UGM]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Toby
Thain
> Sent: 08 July 2015 16:34
> To: gene...@classiccmp.org; discuss...@classiccmp.org:On-Topic and Off-
> Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)
> 
> On 2015-07-08 10:46 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:
> > On Wed, 8 Jul 2015, Dave Wade wrote:
> >> Personally I think anything with castors on
> >
> > No.
> > I have a PC "server" case from late 286 era with tiny casters.
> > But, it was nice to be able to have more than 4 "full-height" drives.
> >
> >
> 
> Plus I'm guessing (admittedly) that the Really Big VAX racks don't have
> castors either?
> 

Most big racks have castors, or wheels of some sort to allow easy
positioning and moving. I do know that modern IBM 19" racks are not supposed
to be moved when laden which got me into some trouble when I was still
working. 
Someone (not me) re-designed the machine room layout with racks up against
the side of the room, so you couldn't get one between an extended server and
the room wall when I pointed out that:-

You need two folks to lift a server into or out of the rack. 
IBM say it is not safe to move the rack when laden,

The ended up buying a server "hoist" to get the things in and out of the
racks

http://serverlift.com/

... not cheap, but in actual fact a much better way of getting things in and
out of 19" racks...

> --Toby

Dave
G4UGM

OT Re: email gripe

[Vincent Slyngstad]

From: Dave Woyciesjes: Wednesday, July 08, 2015 7:17 AM
Ahh, the sweet smell of paranoia... :) Listen, if they want to track & 
watch you, they're doing it already. Using text-only email won't help 
much; give it up.


Oh, they are out to "get me", alright.  They've admitted as much 
repeatedly.  Otherwise I wouldn't be getting all these ads and 
emails saying essentially:


   "Hey, we totally "get" you, and to prove it, here's a list of 
   cool stuff you can buy from us or our friends".


Heck, almost the entire cost of my Android phone is paid for 
that way.  Not to mention virtually the entire cost of the Internet.


I'm OK with that -- it's the Internet, and they're mostly sort of 
up front (in a sleazy way) about it.  I just want to keep it out of 
email.  Especially high volume email, like this list :-).


Vince

--
o< The ASCII Ribbon Campaign Against HTML Email!

Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

[Sean Caron]

And not consistent; under that criterion a BA123 or S-box would count but a
BA23-based system is disqualified, while the two could be identical systems
once you open up the card cage! No fair. :O

Best,

Sean


On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 10:46 AM, Fred Cisin  wrote:

> On Wed, 8 Jul 2015, Dave Wade wrote:
>
>> Personally I think anything with castors on
>>
>
> No.
> I have a PC "server" case from late 286 era with tiny casters.
> But, it was nice to be able to have more than 4 "full-height" drives.
>
>

Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

[Sean Caron]

I've never meet a full-size rack that didn't have casters ... otherwise
there'd be no way to move it around. :O There must have been? Of course,
you'd put the feet down once the equipment is situated.

Best,

Sean


On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Toby Thain 
wrote:

> On 2015-07-08 10:46 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 8 Jul 2015, Dave Wade wrote:
>>
>>> Personally I think anything with castors on
>>>
>>
>> No.
>> I have a PC "server" case from late 286 era with tiny casters.
>> But, it was nice to be able to have more than 4 "full-height" drives.
>>
>>
>>
> Plus I'm guessing (admittedly) that the Really Big VAX racks don't have
> castors either?
>
> --Toby
>
>

FW: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

[Robert Armstrong]

>Perhaps SDI is a typo for SBI, as in the 11/780?

   Yeah, exactly.  Sometimes the fingers are faster than the brain :-)

  Synchronous Backplane Interconnect - the system bus used on the 78x and
some of the 8000 machines.

Bob

Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

[Sean Caron]

I love those server hoists... the data center that I work in at U-M has two
of them, however they are made by Genie and they are a hand-crank type, no
automatic lift. They easily turn a job that could require two, three or
even four people into a job that can be quickly done by one person. I
really wish I had one for home! :O

Best,

Sean


On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 12:45 PM, Dave G4UGM  wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Toby
> Thain
> > Sent: 08 July 2015 16:34
> > To: gene...@classiccmp.org; discuss...@classiccmp.org:On-Topic and Off-
> > Topic Posts
> > Subject: Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)
> >
> > On 2015-07-08 10:46 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:
> > > On Wed, 8 Jul 2015, Dave Wade wrote:
> > >> Personally I think anything with castors on
> > >
> > > No.
> > > I have a PC "server" case from late 286 era with tiny casters.
> > > But, it was nice to be able to have more than 4 "full-height" drives.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Plus I'm guessing (admittedly) that the Really Big VAX racks don't have
> > castors either?
> >
>
> Most big racks have castors, or wheels of some sort to allow easy
> positioning and moving. I do know that modern IBM 19" racks are not
> supposed
> to be moved when laden which got me into some trouble when I was still
> working.
> Someone (not me) re-designed the machine room layout with racks up against
> the side of the room, so you couldn't get one between an extended server
> and
> the room wall when I pointed out that:-
>
> You need two folks to lift a server into or out of the rack.
> IBM say it is not safe to move the rack when laden,
>
> The ended up buying a server "hoist" to get the things in and out of the
> racks
>
> http://serverlift.com/
>
> ... not cheap, but in actual fact a much better way of getting things in
> and
> out of 19" racks...
>
> > --Toby
>
> Dave
> G4UGM
>
>

Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

[Ethan Dicks]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Sean Caron  wrote:
> I love those server hoists... the data center that I work in at U-M has two
> of them, however they are made by Genie and they are a hand-crank type, no
> automatic lift. They easily turn a job that could require two, three or
> even four people into a job that can be quickly done by one person. I
> really wish I had one for home! :O

We never had those back when I managed rooms with a dozen H960s.  I
wanted one then, and I'd love one now.

We just did it the hard way - 2-3 people juggling 100 lb boxes in the
air... not recommended, I know, but it's what we did.

-ethan

Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

[Guy Sotomayor]

On 7/8/15 12:59 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:

On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Sean Caron  wrote:

I love those server hoists... the data center that I work in at U-M has two
of them, however they are made by Genie and they are a hand-crank type, no
automatic lift. They easily turn a job that could require two, three or
even four people into a job that can be quickly done by one person. I
really wish I had one for home! :O

We never had those back when I managed rooms with a dozen H960s.  I
wanted one then, and I'd love one now.

We just did it the hard way - 2-3 people juggling 100 lb boxes in the
air... not recommended, I know, but it's what we did.
I have a Genie lift that I acquired a number of years ago.  It is the 
single best piece of
equipment for managing what I have in racks.  I used to find excuses for 
not rearranging

what's in the various racks.  Not any more!  ;-)

My only complaint is that mine has a 400lb cast iron counter weight 
(which means the
total weight of the lift is >500lbs.  Unless I have a truck with a lift 
gate, I don't take my
lift anywhere.  The counter weight isn't really big enough to get the 
requisite number

of people to be able to lift it comfortably.

TTFN - Guy

Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

[Alan Perry]

On 7/6/15 8:17 PM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:

On 6 July 2015 at 23:03, Alan Perry  wrote:

Is there any interest in starting a VAX-11/750 registry?  I wouldn't mind
knowing who else out there has one and where they are now.  If you are
interested, send me e-mail (vax11-...@snowmoose.com).


Sorry for the scope creep; but perhaps it might be more
useful/interesting to make it a registry of any VAX that has a name of
the form "VAX-11/7xx"? (Which could also include the VAX 8600 and VAX
8650, since were originally to be called the VAX-11/790 and
VAX-11/795.)

Thoughts on that idea?


Just saw this as my filter that collects cctalk postings hid it away.

I am mostly interested in keeping track of 750s since I have one. But I 
guess that I could keep track of the others as well.


I just saw this thread and it looks like there are a bunch of other 
posts, so let me see where the discussion has gone ...


alan



Regards,
Christian

Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

[Alan Perry]

How many microvaxen were made? I think that would be a lot more work, 
wouldn't it?


alan

On 7/6/15 11:52 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote:

will this include micro vax  also?   Ed#
  
  
In a message dated 7/6/2015 8:03:25 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,

ape...@snowmoose.com writes:

Is there  any interest in starting a VAX-11/750 registry?  I wouldn't
mind  knowing who else out there has one and where they are now.  If you
are interested, send me e-mail  (vax11-...@snowmoose.com).

alan

On 7/4/15 1:40 PM, Toby Thain  wrote:

On 2015-07-04 4:35 PM, Mattis Lind wrote:

Well.  Despite all recent VAX-11/750 bashing it actually booted both
VMS  6.1
and Ultrix-32 4.0 today. ...

BTW. The  CPU of the 11/750 is contained on five extended HEX boards,
  (L0002, L0003, L0004, L0008, L0011/L0016/L0022). Then there is the
optional
RMD (L0006) module and possible MBA and  extra unibus adapters.

I used a SCSI2SD card connected  to a Emulex UC17 board.

A booting 750:
  ...

ULTRIX V4.0 (Rev. 161)  (vax)






  login: root

  Password:



As a fellow 11/750 owner (sadly,  not yet restored), I salute you!

  --Toby

Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

[Alan Perry]

On 7/7/15 1:50 PM, tony duell wrote:

   BTW, is this list limited to machines that are in operable condition?

I would include machines that were clearly restorable. OK, anything can be 
restored, but
you know what I mean :-). In other words an 11/730 or 11/750 that needs its 
TU58 rollers
replaced, or an 11/780 that needs somebody to go through the logic and find the
TTL chip that's died. Something like that.

But probably not the VAXbar :-)

Is the serial number still on the VAXbar?

I just wanted to know how many machines were still out there. Actually, 
I wouldn't mind keeping track of 780s as well if it lets me know where 
(the former) ucbvax is now ;)


alan



-tony

Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

[Alan Perry]

On 7/7/15 4:35 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:

On 2015-07-08 01:25, Antonio Carlini wrote:

On 07/07/15 23:06, Johnny Billquist wrote:


I honestly don't have a good idea of what defines a "large" VAX. Buses
feels unsuitable. Power connector maybe? :-)


If the intention is to avoid a huge list then excluding MicroVAXes and
VAXstations should produce a list of VAXen
that you probably cannot easily simply carry home on the bus.

That would unfortunately exclude the VAXstation 8000, which is pretty
rare AFAIK. It would also exclude the VAXstation I,
which I imagine is also relatively rare these days.

I don't think you can easily come up with a simple set of criteria based
on power connectors or buses or similar.

Perhaps "too big to hug" is what you really want :-)


Yeah...

Or maybe we should start by asking what would the purpose of the list 
be. Once that has bee figured out, I'm sure we can come up with some 
criteria, or explicit list of models to include...


My reason for doing a registry is to figure out who many are still out 
there and provide a somewhat central location for owners to find other 
owners. I have a non-running 750, so I figured that I would get some 
benefit from this as well. I don't have time to track this list as much 
as I would like, so I often miss 750 discussions that happen here.


alan




Johnny

Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

[Michael Thompson]

>
> Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2015 00:25:01 +0100
> From: Antonio Carlini 
> Subject: Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)
>
> If the intention is to avoid a huge list then excluding MicroVAXes and
> VAXstations should produce a list of VAXen
> that you probably cannot easily simply carry home on the bus.
>
> That would unfortunately exclude the VAXstation 8000, which is pretty
> rare AFAIK. It would also exclude the VAXstation I,
> which I imagine is also relatively rare these days.
>
> I don't think you can easily come up with a simple set of criteria based
> on power connectors or buses or similar.
>
> Perhaps "too big to hug" is what you really want :-)
>
> Antonio
>

My VAXstation 8000 (Missing the E&S chassis) is too big and heavy to carry
home on a bus.

-- 
Michael Thompson

A 'good-enough' H960 |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| PDP11 masthead replica

[steven]

Following the recent discussion here on the 'DEC logo' topic, I've been mucking 
about with my own efforts to produce a replica PDP11 masthead panel for the DEC 
H960 rack.
The idea is basically to make an SVG for a vinyl stencil which looks 'good 
enough' until I can find an orignal one. I've drawn CAD (vectors and arcs only 
- no splines)
over images I've found on the web, from scratch, without relying on the 
Batchelder examples. So far the output is virtually complete but I need some 
help from the list,
if possible - I would like the dimensions of the width and height. I know it's 
larger than a DEC filler panel. With thise I can adjust the drawing to the 
final size and
continue on the project.
As I need to mix a blurb with example images I've placed it under a blog entry 
on the VCF board at
http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/entry.php?544-A-good-enough-replica-of-the-digital-PDP11-masthead-for-the-H960-rack
Please take a look, and thanks for any help or comments,

Steve.

Re: FW: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2015-07-08 19:21, Robert Armstrong wrote:

Perhaps SDI is a typo for SBI, as in the 11/780?


Yeah, exactly.  Sometimes the fingers are faster than the brain :-)

   Synchronous Backplane Interconnect - the system bus used on the 78x and
some of the 8000 machines.


The 8600 and 8650 are the two who have SBI. Up to two of them, actually.

Johnny

--
Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

[Sean Caron]

I was wondering along those lines myself earlier this morning... I am
thinking, regardless of how many may have originally been produced, I bet
if you gathered up all the VAXen in the hands of collectors now; big and
small; bussed and bus-less, I bet you'd end up with only a few hundred
machines, tops, including those of us with multiples :O I'm curious exactly
how accurate that perception is... maybe I'm way off? The more the merrier
as far as I'm concerned :O

Best,

Sean


On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 5:45 PM, Alan Perry  wrote:

>
> How many microvaxen were made? I think that would be a lot more work,
> wouldn't it?
>
> alan
>
>
> On 7/6/15 11:52 PM, couryho...@aol.com wrote:
>
>> will this include micro vax  also?   Ed#
>> In a message dated 7/6/2015 8:03:25 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
>> ape...@snowmoose.com writes:
>>
>> Is there  any interest in starting a VAX-11/750 registry?  I wouldn't
>> mind  knowing who else out there has one and where they are now.  If you
>> are interested, send me e-mail  (vax11-...@snowmoose.com).
>>
>> alan
>>
>> On 7/4/15 1:40 PM, Toby Thain  wrote:
>>
>>> On 2015-07-04 4:35 PM, Mattis Lind wrote:
>>>
 Well.  Despite all recent VAX-11/750 bashing it actually booted both
 VMS  6.1
 and Ultrix-32 4.0 today. ...

 BTW. The  CPU of the 11/750 is contained on five extended HEX boards,
   (L0002, L0003, L0004, L0008, L0011/L0016/L0022). Then there is the
 optional
 RMD (L0006) module and possible MBA and  extra unibus adapters.

 I used a SCSI2SD card connected  to a Emulex UC17 board.

 A booting 750:
   ...

 ULTRIX V4.0 (Rev. 161)  (vax)






   login: root

   Password:


>>> As a fellow 11/750 owner (sadly,  not yet restored), I salute you!
>>>
>>>   --Toby
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: Masscomp MC-500 - Re: cctech Digest, Vol 13, Issue 5

[Steven M Jones]

On 07/06/2015 16:24, Toby Thain wrote:

On 2015-07-06 3:33 PM, Clem Cole wrote:

...
One other note about the MC-500.   If was the first commercial
Multiprocessor UNIX ... display processor, a number of 29000's in the FP
and APP's units, more 29000 logic in the Data Acq Unit, ...

Pretty cool for early 1980s'


Small quibble - If you mean AMD 29K wasn't released until 1988? So 
those boards must have come later than the MC-500 itself (~1984?)


The OP most likely meant 2900 bit-slice -- common in all manner of 
applications in the early 80s.

--S.