Re: Collectors pay big money for old tech

[Sean Caron]

It's too bad that I catch myself thinking this so frequently these days,
but "thank goodness I got mine" ... before the scene blew up... I guess the
good times of just pulling carloads of cool stuff out of the dumpster for
nothing couldn't go on forever... I do tend to agree; at least it's getting
preserved; but it's a shame if the financial barrier to entry to the hobby
is keeping potentially interested & enthusiastic people away... Like you,
I'd rather see someone playing with the machine; taking it apart; fooling
around; not having it just sit there in a glass case or being just another
addition to some guy's hoard who just has to have it all...

Best,

Sean


On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 2:48 AM, Ian S. King  wrote:

> The down side is that some historically significant artifacts will be
> purchased by rich twits who will stick them in a closet or a display case.
> The up side is that those same artifacts didn't go to the skip, as they did
> all too often, all too recently.  And history demonstrates that they will
> come back out of those closets (or garages, in the case of vintage
> automobiles and motorcycles) and end up in the hands of preservationists.
>
> We're seeing a tipping point where at least some people are beginning to
> see the urgency of preserving our digital *hardware* legacy, even if profit
> is the driver.  As I said, it's not going into a dumpster  -- Ian
>
> On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 3:24 AM, Kevin Parker 
> wrote:
>
> > May be of interest to some list members - appeared in the Sydney Morning
> > Herald Digital Life section yesterday.
> >
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately I'm not one of the big spenders.
> >
> >
> >
> > I know the story about the $200,000 Apple has got a fair airing but some
> of
> > the other numbers being quoted here frighten me.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/discarded-apple-i-worth
> > -us20-collectors-pay-big-money-for-old-tech-20150610-ghfmlu.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ++
> >
> > Kevin Parker
> >
> >
> >
> > ++
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
> The Information School 
>
> Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
> Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 
>
> University of Washington
>
> There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
>

Re: PDP-8/S

[Sean Caron]

I dunno, guys, that might be a little paranoid ... a lot of this stuff is
big and heavy ... I just can't imagine a thief coming in and carting away
PDP-11s, VAX-11s, RP/RL/TU drives, IBM mainframes, whole racks and the like
... I can hardly move some of this stuff I have as one guy and it is
certainly a loud, time-consuming, sweaty process ... not to mention, how
would anyone go about fencing something like that? I don't think the local
pawn shop will want it ... imagine a giant illicit market for stolen
computers, like for stolen artwork? LOL. I'm not so sure. If someone wants
to keep their QTH anonymous that's cool and totally your business but I
suspect most intruders really couldn't care less about old computers... but
who knows. Maybe all this stuff will turn out to be the Old Masters of the
digital age and we'll all be rich! :O

Best,

Sean


On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Noel Chiappa 
wrote:

> > From: Fred Cisin
>
> > If somebody were to try to make a "complete" list, it would make
> sense
> > to provide variable levels of anonymity
> > ...
> > Prob'ly some people would be more willing to discuss what they have
> IFF
> > they aren't opening themselves to theft risk, and/or a deluge of "I'd
> > like to buy".
>
> Let me second that. Particularly as the value of these things goes up,
> security will be a real issue for people.
>
> As I like to say, the _good_ thing about the Internet is that it brings the
> world to your doorstep; and the _bad_ thing about the Internet is that it
> brings the world to your doorstep...
>
> Noel
>

Re: Looking for the Tek 465 of Logic Analysers

[Sean Caron]

Hi Tony,

I don't mean to throw shade on your HP 1630 or your K100 ... just in my own
personal opinion, when I see a HP 1630 on eBay for $100 or a HP 1660 on
eBay for $100 ... and you see this all the time ... I think going with the
1660 is the better deal ... you do make a good point about schematics and
repairability ... and hack-ability ... there are plenty of very exotic
looking components ... especially on the acquisition cards ... on the newer
machines that I'm sure are basically impossible to repair.

I just try to manage that risk by keeping as many spare cards on hand as I
can get for the 16500 series, and I've always got the 1662 standing by in
case something happened to it ... honestly, when you can get a HP 166x for
$100, unless you enjoy the sport of troubleshooting and repair in and of
itself (and I do so sometimes myself) is it really worth sinking much time
and effort into repairing a 1630 series, or a K100?

I just want folks to be aware ... people might not necessarily realize,
what their money will get them; I'd hate for someone to shell out for a
1630 when they could have gotten a 166x or 167x for the same price... That
almost happened to me when I was shopping around and I would have regretted
it. I'm glad I did the a little bit more background research beforehand...
No intrinsic dislike for the classic instruments; if you got em, use em! :O

Best,

Sean




On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 4:52 PM, tony duell  wrote:

>
> > * The HP 16500B and 16500C use a different '030 based logic board and
> also
> [...]
> > * Generally anything the "C" can do, the "B" can do and vice versa. The
> big
> > difference between the two is that they switched from HP-HIL peripherals
> on
> > the "B" to standard PS/2 peripherals on the "C", if you want to connect
> an
> > external keyboard and mouse to use in lieu of or in conjunction with the
> > touch screen; depending on what you have in your stash ... I happened to
> > have a bunch of HIL mice and a HIL keyboard so HP-HIL on the "B" doesn't
> > bug me.
>
> I don't know if it works on these instruments, but there was an interface
> to
> use a quadrature mouse on an HP-HIL system.
>
> > * IMO, the HP 1630 series and the Biomation K100 are pretty obsolescent
> and
> > ... unless you already have one, or someone local to you is giving you
> > one... I don't think they're really worth the cost of shipping unless you
> > have some nostalgic attachment to a particular instrument.
>
> As somebody who has both and uses them (and has no later analysers), I have
> to disagree with you there. After all the OP was asking for the 'Tek 465
> of logic
> analysers' which suggests not the latest instruments. The HP1630 and Gould
> K100D
> are easily fast enough for classic computer work (I've never had
> problems). They
> also seem to be a lot better documented than later analysers (can you get
> schematics of later HPs? I seem to remember they are not in the manuals).
> The
> probe interface is also documented and quite simple. While I recomend only
> getting a LA with the original pods, the ability to make custom pods has
> helped
> me on several occasions. The inputs to both those LAs are simple
> differential
> ECL signals, easy to hack about with.
>
> -tony
>

Re: Amiga Fans

[Sean Caron]

Aha, West Michigan! I know WOOD TV 8... I've got an Amiga 500 myself that
came from Cable Access TV in Kalamazoo. A friend of mine still in town has
a few more. Whodathunkit ... there's still some neat vintage gear out there
in the wild up here in MI after all :O Funny. There's a legacy system for
ya.

Best,

Sean


On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 3:50 PM, Peter Cetinski  wrote:

> +1 to you Amiga fans
>
> http://woodtv.com/2015/06/11/1980s-computer-controls-grps-heat-and-ac/ <
> http://woodtv.com/2015/06/11/1980s-computer-controls-grps-heat-and-ac/>
>
> I love the part about the high school student who originally programmed it
> and still maintains it to this day!
>
>

Re: Amiga Fans

[COURYHOUSE]

We have an Amiga with the Newtek  video goodies inside but alas are  
missing  the keyboard was given to us by one of our cable station   folks here 
in 
AZ Does anyone have extra keyboards!?
Thanks  Ed Sharpe archivist  for SMECC
 
 
In a message dated 6/13/2015 12:24:21 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
sca...@umich.edu writes:

Aha,  West Michigan! I know WOOD TV 8... I've got an Amiga 500 myself that
came  from Cable Access TV in Kalamazoo. A friend of mine still in town has
a few  more. Whodathunkit ... there's still some neat vintage gear out there
in  the wild up here in MI after all :O Funny. There's a legacy system  for
ya.

Best,

Sean


On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 3:50  PM, Peter Cetinski  wrote:

> +1 to you Amiga  fans
>
>  http://woodtv.com/2015/06/11/1980s-computer-controls-grps-heat-and-ac/  <
>  http://woodtv.com/2015/06/11/1980s-computer-controls-grps-heat-and-ac/>
>
>  I love the part about the high school student who originally programmed  
it
> and still maintains it to this  day!
>
>

Re: PDP-8/S

[COURYHOUSE]

Well... we  will accept anonymous entries for the listthat will be  
public  but   the submitter  will  have  to  send  us a nice photo of the unit  
 with   s/n tag etc and their  smiling face  next to it   for the  non 
published  files! <>
 
I think the   only people this month  that have to worry  about theft are 
those with Apple I systems after  this months  news  story on values..
 
Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 6/13/2015 12:24:11 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
sca...@umich.edu writes:

I dunno,  guys, that might be a little paranoid ... a lot of this stuff is
big and  heavy ... I just can't imagine a thief coming in and carting away
PDP-11s,  VAX-11s, RP/RL/TU drives, IBM mainframes, whole racks and the like
... I  can hardly move some of this stuff I have as one guy and it is
certainly a  loud, time-consuming, sweaty process ... not to mention, how
would anyone  go about fencing something like that? I don't think the local
pawn shop  will want it ... imagine a giant illicit market for stolen
computers, like  for stolen artwork? LOL. I'm not so sure. If someone wants
to keep their  QTH anonymous that's cool and totally your business but I
suspect most  intruders really couldn't care less about old computers... but
who knows.  Maybe all this stuff will turn out to be the Old Masters of the
digital age  and we'll all be rich! :O

Best,

Sean


On Fri, Jun 12,  2015 at 9:43 AM, Noel Chiappa  
wrote:

> >  From: Fred Cisin
>
> > If somebody were to  try to make a "complete" list, it would make
> sense
>   > to provide variable levels of anonymity
>   > ...
> > Prob'ly some people  would be more willing to discuss what they have
> IFF
>   > they aren't opening themselves to theft risk, and/or a  deluge of "I'd
> > like to buy".
>
>  Let me second that. Particularly as the value of these things goes up,
>  security will be a real issue for people.
>
> As I like to say,  the _good_ thing about the Internet is that it brings 
the
> world to  your doorstep; and the _bad_ thing about the Internet is that it
>  brings the world to your doorstep...
>
>   Noel
>

Re: Collectors pay big money for old tech

[COURYHOUSE]

Well ...  some things   really are not  more  expensive... the money is  
just  worth  less
back  when I used to buy pdp-8 computers  for 100-200  dollars  ... like   
24+ years ago  cars were a bunch  cheaper  too  by far
 
There are  some things   that went  crazy  like  the Apple I but there is 
still a lot  of  interesting things around  especially if  you are willing to 
 go out to sales  and scrap  yards etc.
 
Then remember there is the 'art' of anticipating what will be considered a  
classic or totally cool  and  grab some  on the time line   point of  near 
obsolescence  and when others  finally figure out  it is cool...
Two computers come to mind on that   for us  was   Cobalt  cube ( got a 
cobalt  rack  unit to keep it company  too) and a Next  cube system
 
Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org)  
 
 
In a message dated 6/13/2015 12:24:00 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
sca...@umich.edu writes:

It's too  bad that I catch myself thinking this so frequently these days,
but "thank  goodness I got mine" ... before the scene blew up... I guess the
good times  of just pulling carloads of cool stuff out of the dumpster for
nothing  couldn't go on forever... I do tend to agree; at least it's  
getting
preserved; but it's a shame if the financial barrier to entry to  the hobby
is keeping potentially interested & enthusiastic people  away... Like you,
I'd rather see someone playing with the machine; taking  it apart; fooling
around; not having it just sit there in a glass case or  being just another
addition to some guy's hoard who just has to have it  all...

Best,

Sean


On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 2:48 AM,  Ian S. King  wrote:

> The down side is that  some historically significant artifacts will be
> purchased by rich  twits who will stick them in a closet or a display 
case.
> The up side  is that those same artifacts didn't go to the skip, as they 
did
> all  too often, all too recently.  And history demonstrates that they  
will
> come back out of those closets (or garages, in the case of  vintage
> automobiles and motorcycles) and end up in the hands of  preservationists.
>
> We're seeing a tipping point where at least  some people are beginning to
> see the urgency of preserving our digital  *hardware* legacy, even if 
profit
> is the driver.  As I said, it's  not going into a dumpster  -- Ian
>
> On Thu, Jun 11,  2015 at 3:24 AM, Kevin Parker 
>  wrote:
>
> > May be of interest to some list members - appeared  in the Sydney 
Morning
> > Herald Digital Life section  yesterday.
> >
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately  I'm not one of the big spenders.
> >
> >
>  >
> > I know the story about the $200,000 Apple has got a fair  airing but 
some
> of
> > the other numbers being quoted here  frighten me.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>  >
>  
http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/discarded-apple-i-worth
>  >  -us20-collectors-pay-big-money-for-old-tech-20150610-ghfmlu.html
>  >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  ++
> >
> > Kevin Parker
> >
>  >
> >
> > ++
> >
> >
>  >
> >
>
>
> --
> Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS,  Ph.D. Candidate
> The Information School  
>
> Archivist, Voices From the  Rwanda Tribunal 
> Value Sensitive  Design Research Lab 
>
> University of  Washington
>
> There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go  to China."
>

Re: PDP-8/S

[Mike Ross]

I have an old computer collection in the workshop.

I also have a gun collection in the house :-)

If anyone can *still* successfully make off with my pdps, they can
bloody have them! :D

Mike

On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 2:52 AM, Sean Caron  wrote:
> I dunno, guys, that might be a little paranoid ... a lot of this stuff is
> big and heavy ... I just can't imagine a thief coming in and carting away
> PDP-11s, VAX-11s, RP/RL/TU drives, IBM mainframes, whole racks and the like
> ... I can hardly move some of this stuff I have as one guy and it is
> certainly a loud, time-consuming, sweaty process ... not to mention, how
> would anyone go about fencing something like that? I don't think the local
> pawn shop will want it ... imagine a giant illicit market for stolen
> computers, like for stolen artwork? LOL. I'm not so sure. If someone wants
> to keep their QTH anonymous that's cool and totally your business but I
> suspect most intruders really couldn't care less about old computers... but
> who knows. Maybe all this stuff will turn out to be the Old Masters of the
> digital age and we'll all be rich! :O
>
> Best,
>
> Sean
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Noel Chiappa 
> wrote:
>
>> > From: Fred Cisin
>>
>> > If somebody were to try to make a "complete" list, it would make
>> sense
>> > to provide variable levels of anonymity
>> > ...
>> > Prob'ly some people would be more willing to discuss what they have
>> IFF
>> > they aren't opening themselves to theft risk, and/or a deluge of "I'd
>> > like to buy".
>>
>> Let me second that. Particularly as the value of these things goes up,
>> security will be a real issue for people.
>>
>> As I like to say, the _good_ thing about the Internet is that it brings the
>> world to your doorstep; and the _bad_ thing about the Internet is that it
>> brings the world to your doorstep...
>>
>> Noel
>>



-- 

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

Re: PDP-8/S

[COURYHOUSE]

Heh!  The  will have to pry my PDP 8  from my cold dead  hands to get it 
<>
 
 
In a message dated 6/13/2015 1:14:19 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
tmfdm...@gmail.com writes:

I have  an old computer collection in the workshop.

I also have a gun  collection in the house :-)

If anyone can *still* successfully make off  with my pdps, they can
bloody have them! :D

Mike

On Sat, Jun  13, 2015 at 2:52 AM, Sean Caron  wrote:
> I  dunno, guys, that might be a little paranoid ... a lot of this stuff  
is
> big and heavy ... I just can't imagine a thief coming in and  carting away
> PDP-11s, VAX-11s, RP/RL/TU drives, IBM mainframes, whole  racks and the 
like
> ... I can hardly move some of this stuff I have as  one guy and it is
> certainly a loud, time-consuming, sweaty process ...  not to mention, how
> would anyone go about fencing something like that?  I don't think the 
local
> pawn shop will want it ... imagine a giant  illicit market for stolen
> computers, like for stolen artwork? LOL. I'm  not so sure. If someone 
wants
> to keep their QTH anonymous that's cool  and totally your business but I
> suspect most intruders really couldn't  care less about old computers... 
but
> who knows. Maybe all this stuff  will turn out to be the Old Masters of 
the
> digital age and we'll all  be rich! :O
>
> Best,
>
> Sean
>
>
>  On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Noel Chiappa  
> wrote:
>
>>   > From: Fred Cisin
>>
>>  > If somebody were to try to make a "complete" list, it would  make
>> sense
>> > to provide variable  levels of anonymity
>> > ...
>>   > Prob'ly some people would be more willing to discuss what  they have
>> IFF
>> > they aren't  opening themselves to theft risk, and/or a deluge of 
"I'd
>>   > like to buy".
>>
>> Let me second that.  Particularly as the value of these things goes up,
>> security will  be a real issue for people.
>>
>> As I like to say, the  _good_ thing about the Internet is that it brings 
the
>> world to  your doorstep; and the _bad_ thing about the Internet is that 
it
>>  brings the world to your doorstep...
>>
>> Noel
>>



--  

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay  down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for  fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or  see.'

Re: PDP-8/S

[COURYHOUSE]

That is NEAT! what application are they using it  for and   who is  doing 
the maint. on it?
Probably an interesting story there!
 
Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 6/12/2015 5:48:28 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
tdk.kni...@gmail.com writes:

been  told of one in winnipeg. havent seen it to confirm though (winnipeg
canada)  thats still in use

Re: PDP-8/S

[COURYHOUSE]

PDP-S  ( and Classic 8  too) in the intake  form . . yes we  are working up 
an entry  for  with different  fields in it.
 
Be aware though  as  soon as  you say  you HAVE ONE OF  THOSE  on this  
list or any other
you have tagged yourself as having one. if  someone wants   your  details 
it  does not  take too much  research  Ed#
 
 
 
In a message dated 6/12/2015 6:43:44 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu writes:

> From: Fred Cisin

> If somebody were to try  to make a "complete" list, it would make sense
> to  provide variable levels of anonymity
> ... 
> Prob'ly some people would be more willing to discuss what they  have IFF
> they aren't opening themselves to theft risk,  and/or a deluge of "I'd
> like to buy".

Let me  second that. Particularly as the value of these things goes up,
security  will be a real issue for people.

As I like to say, the _good_ thing  about the Internet is that it brings the
world to your doorstep; and the  _bad_ thing about the Internet is that it
brings the world to your  doorstep...

Noel

Re: HP 3082A ("Industrial Touch") Terminal service manual or other info?

[Josh Dersch]

Just to bring closure to this (short) thread, I've solved the below 
issue.  I noticed that in addition to the 31-second beep symptom that 
the terminal was also no longer saving my settings after a power cycle 
and so I figured the back-up battery was dead (I'd replaced it when I 
got it a few years back) so I figured I'd try replacing it again and see 
if had anything to do with the prolonged beep.


Answer: Tes.  The terminal now initializes normally with a nice short 
series of beeps.  So, if anyone in the future sees similar symptoms, it 
could very well be the battery and the HP is deciding to tell you in an 
incredibly annoying and uninformative manner...


- Josh

On 6/7/15 1:52 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:

Hi all --

The lovely HP 3082A terminal I've been using with my PDP-11/73 has 
started exhibiting odd/annoying behavior today.  The 3082A is also 
known as the "Industrial Touch" terminal, it's a compact unit in a 
rugged housing with an EL display, built in keyboard, and a touchscreen.


At powerup, it normally gives a few short beeps and starts normal 
operation.  As of today, it gives one continuous beep for 31 seconds 
(I timed it), after which it works fine -- until the next time it 
needs to emit a beep (a ^G, for example) and then it beeps for 31 
seconds again.  This is, to be quite honest, intolerable :).


The manuals on hpmuseum.net are limited to configuration/user manuals 
and the brief troubleshooting it recommends actually *does* mention 
the continuous beeping symptom, but gives no suggestions for causes, 
and suggests as a fix to (a) try turning it off and on again (I've 
done that...) and (b) replace the terminal (can't do that). I've also 
tried resetting the terminal config (hold down Help + . at powerup) 
and this has no effect. The terminal passes all built-in self tests.


Anyone happen to have any experience with these, or know where a 
service manual might be found?  If I at least knew what the 31-second 
beep signified I could start looking...


Thanks,
Josh

Re: PDP-8/S

[COURYHOUSE]

John - Ref  your  8S below -  Happy to  add  this  to the  list. 
any other  good  background info as to prior users   etc?
yes  if  you can get the S/N  will add that.
 
I need to  get the S/N of the SMECC one too I will have to   take  3  
helpers over to warehouse to exhume  it.
 
I will also  get the  S/N on the classic  8 in   blue  cabinet (alas 
missing its  front  desk)  heck I  may just  try to fit that in the   Mini Room 
at 
the museum   too with the  glassed in  cards  table  top that is  there.
 
There is also a spare  front panel assembly  for a straight 8  there that I 
remember putting there  20 years ago
may have crack in corner way towards  edge though  and   has  switches 
cables  etc... No  promises   but  it  should be there   ( an no  promises how  
log  it  will be  to get it out!).. Is there anyone out there that needs  
this  assembly?
 
 
something totally off topic  from the 8S  machines   there are   some   
trs80 radio shack things that are   huge like the MODEL 2  was  but these were 
later and  had a 3  number designator ?  there are many as I remember  one 
will be  kept  another kept  for offsite displays  but  the  others  will 
g
 
sorry to do so many messages in the 8S  topic thread tonight  but  I was 
asleep  for a day with massive migraine and  am trying to catch  up.
 
Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 6/12/2015 3:47:07 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
wil...@dbit.com writes:

Didn't  see mine on there.  PDP-8/S, serial # unknown (it's in storage),
needs  restoration.  I got it in Michigan about 20 years ago.

John  Wilson
D Bit

Re: PDP-8/S

[COURYHOUSE]

That is a beauty! 
 
You moved all that gear  from UK  to USA?
 
 
In a message dated 6/12/2015 2:26:10 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
tmfdm...@gmail.com writes:

I have  one, restored, was running when stored but not powered up in
some  considerable time.

Serial number unknown; IIRC correctly the tag with  the serial number
was missing so may remain unknown.

Obtained from a  collector called Erik in... Netherlands I think, circa
2004... who got it  from John Bradatanu... IIRC I traded a TU56, a
pdp-8/L, and some other  bits, for the 8/S and a working VT05.. see pic
on this  page:

http://www.corestore.org/coremove.htm

Pics on that page  are interesting, as it's the only time around 90% of
the DEC portion of the  Corestore collection has all been lined up and
visible in the same place at  the same time!

Oh 8/m has been discussed in front panel talk... here's  a nice pic of
mine:  http://www.corestore.org/pdp8m-1.jpg

Mike

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015  at 7:56 AM, Fred Cisin  wrote:
>>> I  know of 17 PDP-8/S systems, including four at the  RICM.
>>
>> Not everyone wants their collections to be  public information but:
>
>
> If somebody were to try to  make a "complete" list, it would make sense to
> provide variable levels  of anonymity, such as name but not contact info,
> state but no name,  email but no other contact, etc.  If designed well, 
that
> could be  managed by a full information form in which it is easy, and
>  acknowledged to be acceptable, to fill in only items that are intended 
to  be
> public.
>
> Prob'ly some people would be more willing  to discuss what they have IFF 
they
> aren't opening themselves to theft  risk, and/or a deluge of "I'd like to
> buy".
>
>  NOTE:  I do not currently have ANY PDP stuff, so I am only speculating  
about
> what others would like.
>
>
> --
>  Grumpy Ol' Fred  ci...@xenosoft.com



-- 

http://www.corestore.org
'No  greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for  millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where  no one will ever know or  see.'

Re: PDP-8/S

[COURYHOUSE]

Al  if  you can  run him down and  find   s/n's  that would be  great...   
what are the s/n's  at  CHM on their units?
 
Ed#
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 6/12/2015 2:25:30 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
a...@bitsavers.org writes:

On  6/10/15 12:11 PM, Michael Thompson wrote:
>> I know of 17 PDP-8/S  systems, including four at the RICM.
>

Last I heard, John  Bordynuik still had one or two of them, but I
haven't spoken to him in  years.

RE: PDP-8/S

[COURYHOUSE]

Rich. 
did  you want  physical address listed too?
 
also need  both  s/n's
 
correctedurl at  _www.smecc.org/pdp-8.htm_ 
(http://www.smecc.org/pdp-8.htm) 
 
That address has not been current since 2010 or so.
Please use  http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org instead.

Thanks!

Rich


Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems  Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA  98134

mailto:ri...@livingcomputermuseum.org

http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

Re: PDP-8/S

[Simon Claessen]

Well, its the same with enigma's. all remaining machines are registered with their serialnumbers, So selling after stealing becomes very difficult. that is why a database with 
serialnumbers connected to people is crucial.


On 13-06-15 09:55, couryho...@aol.com wrote:

I think the   only people this month  that have to worry  about theft are
those with Apple I systems after  this months  news  story on values..

Ed#


--
Met vriendelijke Groet,

Simon Claessen
drukknop.nl

Re: PDP-8/S

[COURYHOUSE]

good point Simon!
 
Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 6/13/2015 2:57:09 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
sim...@dds.nl writes:

Well,  its the same with enigma's. all remaining machines are registered 
with their  serialnumbers, So selling after stealing becomes very difficult. 
that is why a  database with 
serialnumbers connected to people is crucial.

On  13-06-15 09:55, couryho...@aol.com wrote:
> I think the   only  people this month  that have to worry  about theft are
> those  with Apple I systems after  this months  news  story on  values..
>
> Ed#

-- 
Met vriendelijke  Groet,

Simon  Claessen
drukknop.nl

Re: Collectors pay big money for old tech

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Sean Caron

> it's a shame if the financial barrier to entry to the hobby is keeping
> potentially interested & enthusiastic people away... 

I understand and agree (very much!) with your concern, but I don't think it's
going to be an issue: for every $1M Apple I, there are a zillion other old
computers you can't even give away. (I know, I have recently tried! :-) So
unless people are deterred by being unable to afford the very coolest and
in-demand items, I think we're safe.

Noel

Re: PDP-8/S

[John Wilson]

On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 04:41:26AM -0400, couryho...@aol.com wrote:
>John - Ref  your  8S below -  Happy to  add  this  to the  list. 
>any other  good  background info as to prior users   etc?
>yes  if  you can get the S/N  will add that.

Will do on next visit.  Dunno about past user (IIRC it has a DEC paper
tape rig and some kind of homemade peripheral built onto a PT08 backplane).
It came with a PDP-8/A system which also had some weird non-DEC I/O
(my hazy memory says some kind of three-axis input with thumbwheels,
but at least the disk is just an M8357/RX01).

>something totally off topic  from the 8S  machines   there are   some   
>trs80 radio shack things that are huge like the MODEL 2 was but these were
>later and  had a 3  number designator ?  there are many as I remember  one 
>will be  kept  another kept  for offsite displays  but  the  others  will 
>g

I don't remember anything beyond the II/12/16 series, but no one tells
me anything.

Re theft:  yeah there's no way a random house burglar would bother
deinstalling something that size and then fence a machine where we
just made a list of every surviving instance in the world.  But ...
we aren't talking about random house burglars ... (squints and glances
suspiciously around the room :-).

John Wilson
D Bit

Re: PDP-8/S

[William Donzelli]

> I dunno, guys, that might be a little paranoid ... a lot of this stuff is
> big and heavy ... I just can't imagine a thief coming in and carting away
> PDP-11s, VAX-11s, RP/RL/TU drives, IBM mainframes, whole racks and the like

So I suppose I will just repost what I said on 8 May 2015 (not that
long ago, but human memories are short):

> Yes, a thief *would* come in and steal the things - at least the cards.
>
> When I was shopping for a building for my collection, I had the scrap metal 
> thieves
> in mind. I am not so worried about it now, as I live at the place now and 
> have taken
> several steps to beef up security, but for a time, my fear was that someone 
> would,
> for example, grab a armful of cards out of a Cyber, instantly turning the 
> machine into
> a chrome donut. Where would I get replacements?

--
Will

Re: PDP-8/S

[William Donzelli]

> Well, its the same with enigma's. all remaining machines are registered with
> their serialnumbers, So selling after stealing becomes very difficult. that
> is why a database with serialnumbers connected to people is crucial.

This is wrong. There are a fair amount of Enigmas in collections that
are not on a registry.

Also, serial numbers are easy to forge and deface on vintage military
electronics. When five or six figure values are concerned, a forger
starts to get very good in his craft.

Anyway, registries are not as big of a deterrent as one might think.
Serious thieves, fencers, and unethical buyers generally do not care.

--
Will

Coating on older DEC slides

[Noel Chiappa]

So I have a bunch of older DEC slides (for BA11 boxes, RK05's, etc) which are
rusty. No problem, I have a sand-blaster, but what's the grey coating on
them, and how do I reproduce it once I have them clean?

I saw Corey Cohen's really wonderful presentation at VCFE about restoring old
computers, and afterwards I asked him if he knew anything, and he said that
(from my description - alas, I didn't think to show him one in the display
area) it sounded like a powder coat thing, and that people who do brake
calipers can do power coating.

However, when I went to my car guy for pointers to local people who do brake
calipers, he looked at the coating, scraped at it a bit with a knife, and said
it didn't look like powder coat to him. (Although maybe this is a very old
powder coat, and he's only used to the newer stuff.) He reckoned it was just
grey paint {visualize dubious-looking Noel - it sure doesn't look like paint
to me}.

So, what _is_ that grey coating - and, more important, how (if at all) can it
be reproduced these days?

Noel

Re: PDP-8/S

[ben]

On 6/13/2015 2:14 AM, Mike Ross wrote:

I have an old computer collection in the workshop.

I also have a gun collection in the house :-)

If anyone can *still* successfully make off with my pdps, they can
bloody have them! :D

Mike



Where did I put my shovel? Sigh 20+ years of digging however.
Better pocket a file, if I dig into a Jail cell by mistake.
Ben.

Re: PDP-8/S

[Lyle Bickley]

On Sat, 13 Jun 2015 04:57:48 -0400
couryho...@aol.com wrote:

> Al  if  you can  run him down and  find   s/n's  that would be
> great... what are the s/n's  at  CHM on their units?

There is an online catalog for CHM artifacts. Physical objects listed
include their serial numbers (if available).

http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/search/

Note: The Collection is still being cataloged. There are over 100,000
items in the CHM's collection and more are being added regularly. There
are a large team of Museum staff and volunteers devoted to cataloging -
but given the circumstances, the catalog is always "behind" ;)

Regards,
Lyle

> In a message dated 6/12/2015 2:25:30 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
> a...@bitsavers.org writes:
> 
> On  6/10/15 12:11 PM, Michael Thompson wrote:
> >> I know of 17 PDP-8/S  systems, including four at the RICM.
> >
> 
> Last I heard, John  Bordynuik still had one or two of them, but I
> haven't spoken to him in  years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



-- 
73  AF6WS
Bickley Consulting West Inc.
http://bickleywest.com

"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

Re: Coating on older DEC slides

[John Wilson]

On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 11:20:19AM -0400, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>So, what _is_ that grey coating - and, more important, how (if at all) can it
>be reproduced these days?

Wild guess:  some kind of oxide?  I agree that it doesn't look like paint
or powder coat.

John Wilson
D Bit

TVGA8900C disks

[Electronics Plus]

Sorry, I deleted the posts from earlier from someone looking for TVGA
software.  I have at least the TVGA 8900C Disk 2 Utilities disk, on 5.25"
floppy.  Disk 1 will probably turn up soon.  Is this what was wanted?

 

Cindy Croxton

Electronics Plus

1613 Water Street

Kerrville, TX 78028

830-370-3239 cell

sa...@elecplus.com

AOL IM elcpls

 

TRS80, other than model 1

[Fred Cisin]

something totally off topic  from the 8S  machines   there are   some
trs80 radio shack things that are huge like the MODEL 2 was but these were
later and  had a 3  number designator ?  there are many as I remember  one
will be  kept  another kept  for offsite displays  but  the  others  will
g

I don't remember anything beyond the II/12/16 series, but no one tells
me anything.


In addition to the model 1, . . .
The model 1 line was converted from a "component" system to a single box.
For those not familiar, it resembled a Northstar Dimension.  Keyboard, 
screen, two 5.25" floppies in a terminal like case.  That was the model 3.
Default disk format was double density.  Since the WD 179x controller 
could not write a truly exact model 1 format single density disk (did not 
support certain data address marks), there were some kludges and changes 
in TRS-DOS, so there were minor glitches in the "upgrade path".

Radio Shack eventually cut a deal to market L-DOS as TRS-DOS 6.
("And Randy Cook is now finally collecting royalties!")

Soon, the model 4 was made available - same basic machine with 80x24 video 
(V 51x16), green screen, a few missing keys provided, and ability to 
remap the ROM from the memory map.  Finally, CP/M was available without 
memory remapping hardware, nor software kludge of having TPA not in low RAM.
The college got a whole lab full of model 3's converted into model 4's, at 
a price per each that was only slightly more than buying new model 4's.


Model 4P was luggable version, vaguely resembling early Compaq.


Model 2 wasn't what I would call "huge", but such is relative.
It was completely unrelated to model 1, other than name, and
naming it's OS (mutually incompatible with model 1/3) "TRS-DOS".
But, CP/M was also available.
It had an 8" drive, and "huge" external case if you wanted more
than one.

Radio Shack came out with a 68000 CPU board!and Xenix
It could be used instead of the Z80 CPU, or have BOTH!  (12 and 16)


In terms of "huge", there were a few other machines that rarely,
if ever, actually made it to market, such as the "Tandy 10",
built into a desk, and sold exclusively through
"Radio Shack Computer Center"s.

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: PDP-8/S

[Fred Cisin]

On Sat, 13 Jun 2015, John Wilson wrote:

Re theft:  yeah there's no way a random house burglar would bother


Are the middle of the night, in the rain, in the gutter, catalytic 
converter thefts actually worth it?



Besides theft issues, there can be additional reasons for anonymity.
consider the possibilities of unwanted contact.

Does Homeland Insecurity care what you are doing with it?
Zoning board?
Ex-wife?
electric rates of domestic V industrial
"Do you have permits for the rewiring?"
"Can I bring my friends over to see it?"
"Are your licenses paid up for all of OUR software?"
spammers harvesting the list?
"Will you make me a copy of the software?  I'll pay for the media"
"Sell me the handle from the switch.  I'll even pay for the postage!"
"Buy mine!"
"Buy my uncle's Dell computers, they're just as old"
"Loan it to us to shoot a movie.  We'll even pay its fair value for any 
damage in the car crashes and explosions"



If I had one, I'd brag about it.

Re: TRS80, other than model 1

[Fred Cisin]

Soon, the model 4 was made available - same basic machine with 80x24 video (V 
51x16),


ooops.
64 characters per line on the 1.  Maybe it was Osborne 1 with 51?

Re: TRS80, other than model 1

[COURYHOUSE]

yea  osborne  was  50 or  51...
 
 
In a message dated 6/13/2015 9:33:00 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
ci...@xenosoft.com writes:

>  Soon, the model 4 was made available - same basic machine with 80x24 
video (V  
> 51x16),

ooops.
64 characters per line on the 1.  Maybe  it was Osborne 1 with  51?

Re: PDP-8/S

[COURYHOUSE]

well it is  amazing what  people that  want  meth   will do...
they remind  me of the  creatures mutated in  I AM  LEGEND
but that is  why Will needs   to add a good alarm system on  his  building  
and  get 2  friends... the pitbulls named  byteemintheass  and 
snapoffurballs if they  in case the alarm system  fails.
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 6/13/2015 9:25:27 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
ci...@xenosoft.com writes:

On Sat,  13 Jun 2015, John Wilson wrote:
> Re theft:  yeah there's no way a  random house burglar would bother

Are the middle of the night, in the  rain, in the gutter, catalytic 
converter thefts actually worth  it?


Besides theft issues, there can be additional reasons for  anonymity.
consider the possibilities of unwanted contact.

Does  Homeland Insecurity care what you are doing with it?
Zoning  board?
Ex-wife?
electric rates of domestic V industrial
"Do you have  permits for the rewiring?"
"Can I bring my friends over to see it?"
"Are  your licenses paid up for all of OUR software?"
spammers harvesting the  list?
"Will you make me a copy of the software?  I'll pay for the  media"
"Sell me the handle from the switch.  I'll even pay for the  postage!"
"Buy mine!"
"Buy my uncle's Dell computers, they're just as  old"
"Loan it to us to shoot a movie.  We'll even pay its fair value  for any 
damage in the car crashes and explosions"


If I had one,  I'd brag about  it.

Re: TRS80, other than model 1

[Eric Smith]

Fred wrote:
> Maybe it was Osborne 1 with 51?

The original Osborne 1 displayed 52x24, but it was a window into a
128x32 memory.  Osborne later offered an 80-column upgrade.

VK 170 CA card M7142

[jim s]

I have a friend with some of these who would like to get a full set of 
data on this card.  He has the handbook writeup with the jumper settings 
and some other info.


Would like full disclosure, schematics, engineering info, etc.

This board is a Q bus card which has keyboard interface, and display 
RS-170 video out.  Generates an 80 x 25 display with refresh memory 
supplying the information.  Also includes an EIA RS-423 serial interface.


These are in systems which integrate small PDP 11 type systems to form 
terminals, etc.

Thanks
Jim

Re: TRS80, other than model 1

[COURYHOUSE]

Fred  and others -  I  stand   correctedthese are probably model 12 or 
maybe model  16... did they network  the Xenix  ones? maybe that is why 
there  are  many of them.  I recall one  large  RS   printer was  with the 
group?
 
Guess  I  should have looked  closer  last   time  I was in that  area.
 
on another topic  we need trs 80  model 100  to give the  college to go in 
the  tools of the journalist  display need   not  work  just look  nice.. 
reporters used these  for field  reporting .
 
If  you think about it many things are 'a tool of the  journalist"   gosh! 
we endowed them  with candle stick phones,  some various other old phones, 
old pens, old typewritters, studio and   portable   video cameras, video 
recorders in  many sizes and  formats ... the  list  goes on!
 
Ed#  _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org)  
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 6/13/2015 9:06:14 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
ci...@xenosoft.com writes:

>>  something totally off topic  from the 8S  machines   there  are   some
>> trs80 radio shack things that are huge like  the MODEL 2 was but these 
were
>> later and  had a 3   number designator ?  there are many as I remember  
one
>>  will be  kept  another kept  for offsite displays   but  the  others  
will
>> g
> I  don't remember anything beyond the II/12/16 series, but no one tells
>  me anything.

In addition to the model 1, . . .
The model 1 line was  converted from a "component" system to a single box.
For those not  familiar, it resembled a Northstar Dimension.  Keyboard, 
screen, two  5.25" floppies in a terminal like case.  That was the model 3.
Default  disk format was double density.  Since the WD 179x controller 
could  not write a truly exact model 1 format single density disk (did not  
support certain data address marks), there were some kludges and changes  
in TRS-DOS, so there were minor glitches in the "upgrade path".
Radio  Shack eventually cut a deal to market L-DOS as TRS-DOS 6.
("And Randy Cook  is now finally collecting royalties!")

Soon, the model 4 was made  available - same basic machine with 80x24 video 
(V 51x16), green screen, a  few missing keys provided, and ability to 
remap the ROM from the memory  map.  Finally, CP/M was available without 
memory remapping hardware,  nor software kludge of having TPA not in low 
RAM.
The college got a whole  lab full of model 3's converted into model 4's, at 
a price per each that  was only slightly more than buying new model 4's.

Model 4P was luggable  version, vaguely resembling early Compaq.


Model 2 wasn't what I  would call "huge", but such is relative.
It was completely unrelated to  model 1, other than name, and
naming it's OS (mutually incompatible with  model 1/3) "TRS-DOS".
But, CP/M was also available.
It had an 8" drive,  and "huge" external case if you wanted more
than one.

Radio Shack  came out with a 68000 CPU board!and Xenix
It could be used  instead of the Z80 CPU, or have BOTH!  (12 and 16)


In terms of  "huge", there were a few other machines that rarely,
if ever, actually made  it to market, such as the "Tandy 10",
built into a desk, and sold  exclusively through
"Radio Shack Computer Center"s.

--
Grumpy Ol'  Fred  ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: TRS80, other than model 1

[Mark J. Blair]

Don't forget the Model 6000 and 6000HD: Basically Model 16 in the Model 12 
style case.

-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: TRS80, other than model 1

[Peter Cetinski]

I always wonder what the rational was on the "6000" name.  I understand Tandy 
wanted to move away from the "TRS-80” name, hence the "Tandy 6000”, but it was 
really just a slightly enhanced TRS-80 Model 16B.  Now, the “16” name makes 
sense…16-bit OS support on the added cards.  Of course. at the same time, Tandy 
had the x86 series with the 1000, 2000. etc.  Giving the machine a name of 6000 
makes it seem like it was supposed to be their top-of-the-line machine.  Now 
many (including me) would argue that it actually was their top-of-the-line 
machine since it ran multi-user Xenix.  However,  I’ve read that at that point 
that Tandy had little interest in continuing the Z80 lineage Model II line so 
why would they give it a name with such prominence above all of their new x86 
lines?

 
> On Jun 13, 2015, at 2:30 PM, Mark J. Blair  wrote:
> 
> Don't forget the Model 6000 and 6000HD: Basically Model 16 in the Model 12 
> style case.
> 
> -- 
> Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
> http://www.nf6x.net/
> 

Re: TRS80, other than model 1

[Chuck Guzis]

On 06/13/2015 11:53 AM, Peter Cetinski wrote:

I always wonder what the rational was on the "6000" name.  I
understand Tandy wanted to move away from the "TRS-80” name, hence
the "Tandy 6000”, but it was really just a slightly enhanced TRS-80
Model 16B.


It was my impression that the "Tandy" branded line consisted mostly of 
equipment targeted squarely at the business community, who might have 
been less receptive to the moniker "Radio Shack".  However, there was 
duplication between the "Radio Shack" and "Tandy" products.  Tandy did 
have their own B&M retail outlets.


That being said, my Model 16 bears the "Radio Shack" label.

--Chuck

Re: Coating on older DEC slides

[Rod Smallwood]

It might be cadmium


On 13/06/2015 16:45, John Wilson wrote:

On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 11:20:19AM -0400, Noel Chiappa wrote:

So, what _is_ that grey coating - and, more important, how (if at all) can it
be reproduced these days?

Wild guess:  some kind of oxide?  I agree that it doesn't look like paint
or powder coat.

John Wilson
D Bit

RE: Looking for the Tek 465 of Logic Analysers

[tony duell]

> 
> Hi Tony,
> 
> I don't mean to throw shade on your HP 1630 or your K100 ... just in my own
> personal opinion, when I see a HP 1630 on eBay for $100 or a HP 1660 on
> eBay for $100 ... and you see this all the time ... I think going with the

Of course. And I my comments are my personal opinion too. I think that giving
such opinions, backed up with facts (as you are certainly doing) is worthwhile. 
Please don't think I am flaming you, or that I don't think your views are worth
considering.

This is classiccmp, a list for old computers. And even I (classic machine lover 
than
I am) will happily agree that a modern PC has a much higher CPU performance than
any of our classics. We've just had a thread on the VAX 11/730. This is 
probably the 
slowest VAX ever, just about anything running an emulator will beat it. This 
does not
mean (IMHO) that the 11/730 is not worth restoring. There are many reasons for 
liking
classic computers, CPU speed is generally not important.

Similarly there are many (IMHO good) reasons for liking classic test gear. 
Provided the
limitations are known, and it is used sensibly, it will still give good 
results. A 100Msample/sec
logic analyser from the 1980s is still a 100Msample/sec logic analyser. It may 
not be fast
enough for some modern work, it probably is fast enough for working on classic 
computers.

In the end I think it comes down to knowing the various instruments, the pros 
and cons of
each and making a choice, What you choose is ultimately up to you. 


> 1660 is the better deal ... you do make a good point about schematics and
> repairability ... and hack-ability ... there are plenty of very exotic
> looking components ... especially on the acquisition cards ... on the newer
> machines that I'm sure are basically impossible to repair.

Be warned that even the HP1630 has custom ICs on the acquisition boards. AFAIK
the Gould K100D is all standard ECL parts. 

For me, the reasons for choosing the K100D would be the documentation and 
standard
ICs. And the fact that it is easy to make custom probes for it. The reason for 
choosing
the HP1630 are the mostly standard ICs, the documentation, and the HPIL 
interface. 

-tony

Re: Collectors pay big money for old tech

[Rod Smallwood]

After all this time unless the configuration in the box is the same as 
the label on the back
then all you have is the serial number of the box and I dont think empty 
system boxes are worth much.



On 13/06/2015 12:57, Noel Chiappa wrote:

 > From: Sean Caron

 > it's a shame if the financial barrier to entry to the hobby is keeping
 > potentially interested & enthusiastic people away...

I understand and agree (very much!) with your concern, but I don't think it's
going to be an issue: for every $1M Apple I, there are a zillion other old
computers you can't even give away. (I know, I have recently tried! :-) So
unless people are deterred by being unable to afford the very coolest and
in-demand items, I think we're safe.

Noel

RE: TRS80, other than model 1

[tony duell]

> In addition to the model 1, . . .
> The model 1 line was converted from a "component" system to a single box.
> For those not familiar, it resembled a Northstar Dimension.  Keyboard,
> screen, two 5.25" floppies in a terminal like case.  That was the model 3.
> Default disk format was double density.  Since the WD 179x controller
> could not write a truly exact model 1 format single density disk (did not

The data address markers on the directory cylinder of a M1 TRS-DOS disk 
are one of the odd ones that only a 1771 can write.  IIRC if you do a double
density upgrade to an M1, you end up with both 1771 and 179x disk controller
chips so that you can still write original M1 TRS-DOS disks. The M3 only has the
179x controller. 

There were many other changes between the M1 and M3 hardware. Most noticeable
is that many I/O devices were memory mapped on the M1 (in the area between the 
ROMs
and RAM), but were mapped as I/O ports on the M3. 

One odditiy was the Centronics printer port. Memory mapped on the M1 (write to 
the
address to send a character to the printer, read it to check printer status) 
and I/O mapped
on the M3. But because so much software directly read that address to check a 
printer was
present and ready, the M3 (and M4) allows a read from the same memory address 
to check
the printer status. But AFAIK you have to use the I/O address to output a 
character. 

There were enough changes between the M1 and M3 that in general M1 disk 
software will
not run on an M3 and vice versa.

> support certain data address marks), there were some kludges and changes
> in TRS-DOS, so there were minor glitches in the "upgrade path".
> Radio Shack eventually cut a deal to market L-DOS as TRS-DOS 6.
> ("And Randy Cook is now finally collecting royalties!")

TRS-DOS 6 (LDOS 6, LS-DOS 6) was a M4 operating system. However, IIRC the hard
disk OS for the M1 and M3 was LDOS 5.1.x and was sold by Radio Shack.

> Soon, the model 4 was made available - same basic machine with 80x24 video
> (V 51x16), green screen, a few missing keys provided, and ability to
> remap the ROM from the memory map.  Finally, CP/M was available without

The M1 and M3 were limited to 48K RAM (64K memory map space, 12K or 14K for 
ROM, the 
rest for video, keyboard, I/O devices). The M4 could take 128K RAM, there was 
bank switching
logic to map RAM, ROM, video, etc into the 64K CPU memory map. You could have 
the plain
64K RAM that CP/M liked.

Note that a M4 can almost perfectly emulate an M3, and will boot M3 OSes, run 
M3 software, etc
If you do this you lose the M4 enhancements (you have 48K RAM, ROM at location 
0, 64*16 video
etc). But it lets you use the older software if you want to.

The M4 uses the same disk system (and RS232 interface board) as the M3. Disk 
machines have 
a single-bit sound output device, quite why this wasn't fitted to 
cassette-based machines is beyond
me. 


> Model 4P was luggable version, vaguely resembling early Compaq.

One incompatibilty here, the 4P has no cassette port.

Trivia question : What feature was present on all disk based M1s (in fact any 
M1 with an expansion
interface) but not on any M3 or M4 machines?

-tony

Front Panel Tech Note No3

[Rod Smallwood]

PDP-8/e Panel Variants

I now have a list of _possible_ (not actual) variations.
Its not quite the same as what I had before.
In addition I have heard there may be colour variations in some cases.

A is the current shipping version


   A No dividing lines between lamp groups
Position 1 and 6  on select switch vertical

B  Dividing lines between lamp groups
Position 1 and 6  on select switch vertical

CNo dividing lines between lamp groups
Position 1 and 6  on select switch angled

D Dividing lines between lamp groups
Position 1 and 6  on select switch angled

As these only involve artwork and silk screen frame changes I can use 
the same plexiglas blanks for them


Whats the next most popular PDP-8 after the /e? Any ideas ?

Rod

Re: TRS80, other than model 1

[Peter Cetinski]

The double cassette ports.

> On Jun 13, 2015, at 4:08 PM, tony duell  wrote:
> 
> Trivia question : What feature was present on all disk based M1s (in fact any 
> M1 with an expansion
> interface) but not on any M3 or M4 machines?

Re: Coating on older DEC slides

[COURYHOUSE]

cadmium not  good  for  you... beryllium is  even  worse!
 
Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 6/13/2015 12:51:52 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
rodsmallwoo...@btinternet.com writes:

It might  be cadmium


On 13/06/2015 16:45, John Wilson wrote:
> On Sat,  Jun 13, 2015 at 11:20:19AM -0400, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>> So, what  _is_ that grey coating - and, more important, how (if at all) 
can  it
>> be reproduced these days?
> Wild guess:  some kind  of oxide?  I agree that it doesn't look like paint
> or powder  coat.
>
> John Wilson
> D  Bit

Re: Coating on older DEC slides

[Al Kossow]

On 6/13/15 8:20 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:

what's the grey coating on
them


molybdenum

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Mark J. Blair]

I'm having trouble with the password reset procedure (but will resolve it by 
the end of this message). When I run AUTHORIZE, I get this:

$ run authorize
run authorize
%DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image SECURESHRP
-CLI-E-IMGNAME, image file PIKE$DQA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSLIB]SECURESHRP.EXE;2
-SYSTEM-F-PROTINSTALL, protected images must be installed

I tried installing my new OpenVMS license pak to see if that would influence 
it, but it didn't seem to help. Took about an hour for my terminal emulator to 
slowly type in that 2400 line license file!

Ok, let's try rebooting with the new license pak installed... Nope!

>>>@DQ0GEN
>>>I
>>>D/P/L F26200 86
>>>D/P/L F2620C 
>>>D/P/L F26200 6
>>>D/G/L 0 00A80003
>>>D/G/L 1 3
>>>D/G/L 2 3FB86
>>>D/G/L 3 0
>>>D/G/L 4 0
>>>D/G/L 5 1
>>>E SP
G 000E 0200
>>>L/P/S:@ VMB.EXE
>>>S @

SYSBOOT>  SET VAXCLUSTER 0

SYSBOOT>  SET /STARTUP OPA0:

SYSBOOT>  SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0

SYSBOOT>  CONTINUE

%SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT Mapping the SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk
%SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT SYSDUMP.DMP on System Disk successfully mapped
%SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT Mapping PAGEFILE.SYS on the System Disk
%SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT SAVEDUMP parameter not set to protect the PAGEFILE.SYS
   OpenVMS (TM) VAX Version V7.3 Major version id = 1 Minor version id = 0
%WBM-I-WBMINFO Write Bitmap has successfully completed initialization.
$ set noon
set noon
$ spawn /nowait sys$system:startup.com
spawn /nowait sys$system:startup.com
%DCL-S-SPAWNED, process SYSTEM_1 spawned
$
%DCL-W-NOLBLS, label ignored - use only within command procedures
 \SYS$SYSTEM:\
%DCL-W-PARMDEL, invalid parameter delimiter - check use of special characters
 \.COM\

$ set default sys$system
set default sys$system
$ run authorize
run authorize
%DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image SECURESHRP
-CLI-E-IMGNAME, image file PIKE$DQA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSLIB]SECURESHRP.EXE;2
-SYSTEM-F-PROTINSTALL, protected images must be installed
$

Ok, now let's try the slightly different procedure at 
http://labs.hoffmanlabs.com/node/204  
with the vaxcluster stuff spliced in... Much better! Much longer boot time, 
lots of complaining about terminated licenses (previous attempt to install them 
must not have worked), but I was able to reset the password. I'm not sure what 
was different about the other proceduer (maybe the /nowait flag?), and some of 
the lines don't even look applicable to a non-workstation.

Now running the license pak script again, and the output looks a lot more 
promising.

Forward progress continues!



-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

RE: TRS80, other than model 1

[Fred Cisin]

On Sat, 13 Jun 2015, tony duell wrote:
Trivia question : What feature was present on all disk based M1s (in 
fact any M1 with an expansion

interface) but not on any M3 or M4 machines?


composite video out.  I used that, a LOT for classroom lectures, etc.
1771 FDC
dual cassette port?
or unreliability of model 1 power supply?
or flaky interface between "cpu" and EI?
model 1 expansion bus
"ability to ignore" some model 3 I/O ports?

There are a lot of differences.  MOSTLY minor (mostly harmless?)
as to which ones are "features", . . .

Re: Coating on older DEC slides

[Rod Smallwood]

Ever looked at an old radio chassis?
They had what I was led to believe was a grey cadium plating over the steel

The boxes BA11-ES and the like had I think a coat ing was some kind of 
Nickel

My 11/34A has a greyish coating on the tiltable runners.


On 13/06/2015 21:35, couryho...@aol.com wrote:

cadmium not  good  for  you... beryllium is  even  worse!
  
Ed#
  
  
In a message dated 6/13/2015 12:51:52 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,

rodsmallwoo...@btinternet.com writes:

It might  be cadmium


On 13/06/2015 16:45, John Wilson wrote:

On Sat,  Jun 13, 2015 at 11:20:19AM -0400, Noel Chiappa wrote:

So, what  _is_ that grey coating - and, more important, how (if at all)

can  it

be reproduced these days?

Wild guess:  some kind  of oxide?  I agree that it doesn't look like paint
or powder  coat.

John Wilson
D  Bit

Re: Coating on older DEC slides

[William Donzelli]

Specifically molybdenum disulphide, sometimes called Molycoat. It is
for lubrication on high load surfaces.

--
Will

On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Al  Kossow  wrote:
> On 6/13/15 8:20 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>>
>> what's the grey coating on
>> them
>
>
> molybdenum
>
>

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Peter Coghlan]

>
>
> I'm having trouble with the password reset procedure (but will resolve it by
> the end of this message). When I run AUTHORIZE, I get this:
>

[snip]

> $ set noon
> set noon
> $ spawn /nowait sys$system:startup.com
> spawn /nowait sys$system:startup.com
> %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process SYSTEM_1 spawned
> $
> %DCL-W-NOLBLS, label ignored - use only within command procedures
>  \SYS$SYSTEM:\
> %DCL-W-PARMDEL, invalid parameter delimiter - check use of special characters
>  \.COM\

Did I say that?

I meant:

$ spawn /nowait @sys$system:startup.com

(sorry)

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.

Re: Coating on older DEC slides

[Chris Halarewich]

this might help

https://www.google.com/shopping/product/7383451835334313012?q=molybdenum+disulfide+coating&safe=off&noj=1&biw=1024&bih=629&prds=paur:ClkAsKraXyh_1xad5vi9oE0I8GS1YznlVNSS2tGKR-iUpH71NEXpImtA4Kq4eR4KA_86tvG9WTQ51CzYkVNoTTtf1VA7rw9TasccwTuI9dlNZ4utFu-Vfi5tDxIZAFPVH72olz1yqEpQprTbIoGwC5-h_rf5Bw&ved=0CAYQpitqFQoTCMeop_jOjcYCFcybiAodlQsMPA&ei=9aB8VYfaHcy3ogSVl7DgAw

On 6/13/15, Rod Smallwood  wrote:
> Ever looked at an old radio chassis?
> They had what I was led to believe was a grey cadium plating over the steel
>
> The boxes BA11-ES and the like had I think a coat ing was some kind of
> Nickel
> My 11/34A has a greyish coating on the tiltable runners.
>
>
> On 13/06/2015 21:35, couryho...@aol.com wrote:
>> cadmium not  good  for  you... beryllium is  even  worse!
>>
>> Ed#
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 6/13/2015 12:51:52 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
>> rodsmallwoo...@btinternet.com writes:
>>
>> It might  be cadmium
>>
>>
>> On 13/06/2015 16:45, John Wilson wrote:
>>> On Sat,  Jun 13, 2015 at 11:20:19AM -0400, Noel Chiappa wrote:
 So, what  _is_ that grey coating - and, more important, how (if at all)
>> can  it
 be reproduced these days?
>>> Wild guess:  some kind  of oxide?  I agree that it doesn't look like
>>> paint
>>> or powder  coat.
>>>
>>> John Wilson
>>> D  Bit
>>
>
>


-- 
Chris Halarewich

Re: Coating on older DEC slides

[couryhouse]

Yes I use it in Leica cameras in artic weather.. but is that what gives the 
slides that anodized look


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: William Donzelli  
Date: 06/13/2015  2:29 PM  (GMT-07:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: Coating on older DEC slides 

Specifically molybdenum disulphide, sometimes called Molycoat. It is
for lubrication on high load surfaces.

--
Will

On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Al  Kossow  wrote:
> On 6/13/15 8:20 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>>
>> what's the grey coating on
>> them
>
>
> molybdenum
>
>

Re: Coating on older DEC slides

[couryhouse]

Yes that is what was used... and yes too much is bad.. beryllium is way worse
. William Hansen at varian died from itEd#  






Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: Rod Smallwood  
Date: 06/13/2015  2:23 PM  (GMT-07:00) 
To: gene...@classiccmp.org, "discuss...@classiccmp.org:On-Topic and Off-Topic 
Posts"  
Subject: Re: Coating on older DEC slides 

Ever looked at an old radio chassis?
They had what I was led to believe was a grey cadium plating over the steel

The boxes BA11-ES and the like had I think a coat ing was some kind of 
Nickel
My 11/34A has a greyish coating on the tiltable runners.


On 13/06/2015 21:35, couryho...@aol.com wrote:
> cadmium not  good  for  you... beryllium is  even  worse!
>   
> Ed#
>   
>   
> In a message dated 6/13/2015 12:51:52 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
> rodsmallwoo...@btinternet.com writes:
>
> It might  be cadmium
>
>
> On 13/06/2015 16:45, John Wilson wrote:
>> On Sat,  Jun 13, 2015 at 11:20:19AM -0400, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>>> So, what  _is_ that grey coating - and, more important, how (if at all)
> can  it
>>> be reproduced these days?
>> Wild guess:  some kind  of oxide?  I agree that it doesn't look like paint
>> or powder  coat.
>>
>> John Wilson
>> D  Bit
>

Re: Coating on older DEC slides

[Chuck Guzis]

On 06/13/2015 02:29 PM, William Donzelli wrote:

Specifically molybdenum disulphide, sometimes called Molycoat. It is
for lubrication on high load surfaces.


Will, I think you mean "Molykote", the trade name for the stuff.

But is that really it?  I've got a few pounds of dry moly disulfide here 
and it's nasty stuff--gets everywhere and is a black-silver in color. 
About as bad as graphite.  Gun people sometimes tumble their shells in 
it.  Don't ask how I know...


If this is a small job and you need a solid coating, have a look at some 
of the moly-teflon rattle-can gun coatings from Brownell.  You spray 
them on, then bake them.  The finish is very tough and pretty much 
foolproof.


I've got a few HP slides from a storage array and I'll swear they're 
just plain old electroplated zinc.


--Chuck

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Mark J. Blair]

> On Jun 13, 2015, at 14:29, Peter Coghlan  wrote:
> Did I say that?
> 
> I meant:
> 
> $ spawn /nowait @sys$system:startup.com
> 
> (sorry)

Aha! Now I understand.

Ok, I have the SYSTEM password reset, and the license pak installed. Next task 
is to perform backups. First attempt to do that has presented my next learning 
opportunity:

How do I respond to tape mount requests on the same console where I'm running 
BACKUP? When I get the request asking whether to create a new tape volume, it 
doesn't seem to respond to terminal input.

-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: Coating on older DEC slides

[William Donzelli]

> But is that really it?  I've got a few pounds of dry moly disulfide here and
> it's nasty stuff--gets everywhere and is a black-silver in color.

Probably. The stuff can be mixed with a resin binder and thinly
painted on surfaces, like rack slides.

--
Will

SIO2SD for Atari 8-bits - Just got one.

[Terry Stewart]

I'm in awe of people who can build and design these devices
http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2015-06-13-sio2sd-for-atari.htm

Terry (Tez)

Re: SIO2SD for Atari 8-bits - Just got one.

[Mark J. Blair]

> On Jun 13, 2015, at 16:28, Terry Stewart  wrote:
> 
> I'm in awe of people who can build and design these devices
> http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2015-06-13-sio2sd-for-atari.htm
> 
> Terry (Tez)

It looks really slick. I wish Lotharek would make a UNIBUS2SD! :)

-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Jerry Weiss]

Very good progress.

Suggest you initialize and mount the tapes first, then do the backup.  

$init mta0:/density=1600  JUN2015

$mount mta0: JUN2015

Substitute your actual tape device name for mta0: and need to use  /density as 
applicable.



Jerry Weiss, WB9MRI
j...@ieee.org



> On Jun 13, 2015, at 5:51 PM, Mark J. Blair  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jun 13, 2015, at 14:29, Peter Coghlan  wrote:
>> Did I say that?
>> 
>> I meant:
>> 
>> $ spawn /nowait @sys$system:startup.com
>> 
>> (sorry)
> 
> Aha! Now I understand.
> 
> Ok, I have the SYSTEM password reset, and the license pak installed. Next 
> task is to perform backups. First attempt to do that has presented my next 
> learning opportunity:
> 
> How do I respond to tape mount requests on the same console where I'm running 
> BACKUP? When I get the request asking whether to create a new tape volume, it 
> doesn't seem to respond to terminal input.
> 
> -- 
> Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
> http://www.nf6x.net/
> 

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Mark J. Blair]

I figured out pre-initializing the tape by trial and error, but now I'm stuck 
at knowing how to respond when I get the OPCON request for another tape. The 
system drive has too much data for one tape, but at least I managed to make it 
through writing one tape.

> On Jun 13, 2015, at 16:46, Jerry Weiss  wrote:
> 
> Very good progress.
> 
> Suggest you initialize and mount the tapes first, then do the backup.  
> 
> $init mta0:/density=1600  JUN2015
> 
> $mount mta0: JUN2015
> 
> Substitute your actual tape device name for mta0: and need to use  /density 
> as applicable.
> 
> 
> 
> Jerry Weiss, WB9MRI
> j...@ieee.org
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 13, 2015, at 5:51 PM, Mark J. Blair  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 13, 2015, at 14:29, Peter Coghlan  wrote:
>>> Did I say that?
>>> 
>>> I meant:
>>> 
>>> $ spawn /nowait @sys$system:startup.com
>>> 
>>> (sorry)
>> 
>> Aha! Now I understand.
>> 
>> Ok, I have the SYSTEM password reset, and the license pak installed. Next 
>> task is to perform backups. First attempt to do that has presented my next 
>> learning opportunity:
>> 
>> How do I respond to tape mount requests on the same console where I'm 
>> running BACKUP? When I get the request asking whether to create a new tape 
>> volume, it doesn't seem to respond to terminal input.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
>> http://www.nf6x.net/
> 

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Mark J. Blair]

Incidentally, today's session would have consumed 130 pages of greenbar if I 
hadn't used a terminal emulator. VMS sure has a lot to get off its chest! :)

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Glen Slick]

On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Mark J. Blair  wrote:
> I figured out pre-initializing the tape by trial and error, but now I'm stuck 
> at knowing how to respond when I get the OPCON request for another tape. The 
> system drive has too much data for one tape, but at least I managed to make 
> it through writing one tape.
>

Maybe this would apply here? I have never used this myself.

http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/documentation/pdf/OVMS_73_sysman1.PDF

OpenVMS System Manager’s Manual, Volume1: Essentials
Order Number: AA-PV5MF-TK

Managing Storage Media
9.8 Mounting Tape Volume Sets

9.8.2.4 Sending Messages Back to Users
After loading the continuation volume on the drive specified in the
mount request, mount the volume by entering the REPLY command with one
of the three qualifiers shown in Table 9–16. For more information
about these qualifiers, refer to the OpenVMS DCL Dictionary.

Table 9-16 REPLY Command Qualifiers for Continuation Volumes

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Mark J. Blair]

Thanks, I will read that. But how do I enter the reply command when the BACKUP 
program is hogging the console? Is there a VMS equivalent to the way a task can 
be suspended in UNIX with ^Z?


> On Jun 13, 2015, at 17:28, Glen Slick  wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Mark J. Blair  wrote:
>> I figured out pre-initializing the tape by trial and error, but now I'm 
>> stuck at knowing how to respond when I get the OPCON request for another 
>> tape. The system drive has too much data for one tape, but at least I 
>> managed to make it through writing one tape.
> 
> Maybe this would apply here? I have never used this myself.
> 
> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/documentation/pdf/OVMS_73_sysman1.PDF
> 
> OpenVMS System Manager’s Manual, Volume1: Essentials
> Order Number: AA-PV5MF-TK
> 
> Managing Storage Media
> 9.8 Mounting Tape Volume Sets
> 
> 9.8.2.4 Sending Messages Back to Users
> After loading the continuation volume on the drive specified in the
> mount request, mount the volume by entering the REPLY command with one
> of the three qualifiers shown in Table 9–16. For more information
> about these qualifiers, refer to the OpenVMS DCL Dictionary.
> 
> Table 9-16 REPLY Command Qualifiers for Continuation Volumes

Re: Coating on older DEC slides

[Mike Ross]

I do hope not; that stuff is *seriously* toxic.

On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 7:52 AM, Rod Smallwood
 wrote:
> It might be cadmium
>
>
>
> On 13/06/2015 16:45, John Wilson wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 11:20:19AM -0400, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>>>
>>> So, what _is_ that grey coating - and, more important, how (if at all)
>>> can it
>>> be reproduced these days?
>>
>> Wild guess:  some kind of oxide?  I agree that it doesn't look like paint
>> or powder coat.
>>
>> John Wilson
>> D Bit
>
>



-- 

http://www.corestore.org
'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Glen Slick]

On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 5:45 PM, Mark J. Blair  wrote:
> Thanks, I will read that. But how do I enter the reply command when the 
> BACKUP program is hogging the console? Is there a VMS equivalent to the way a 
> task can be suspended in UNIX with ^Z?
>

I'm no expert, but I think you can sometimes do ^Y, and then CONTINUE,
but only if you only execute built-in commands between the ^Y and the
CONTINUE.

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Mark J. Blair]

Thanks! I will try that out. 

> On Jun 13, 2015, at 18:01, Glen Slick  wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 5:45 PM, Mark J. Blair  wrote:
>> Thanks, I will read that. But how do I enter the reply command when the 
>> BACKUP program is hogging the console? Is there a VMS equivalent to the way 
>> a task can be suspended in UNIX with ^Z?
> 
> I'm no expert, but I think you can sometimes do ^Y, and then CONTINUE,
> but only if you only execute built-in commands between the ^Y and the
> CONTINUE.

Re: PDP-8/S

[Ken Seefried]

From: Sean Caron 
>
>I dunno, guys, that might be a little paranoid ... a lot of this
>stuff is big and heavy ... I just can't imagine a thief coming
>in and carting away PDP-11s, VAX-11s, RP/RL/TU drives,
>IBM mainframes, whole racks and the like
>

Nope.  My wife used to work in commercial real estate.  The building supers
that she was managing money for *routinely* had multi-hundred-pound to
multi-ton thefts of copper and other resalable material, often ripped out
of walls over the course of hours or days. Size/weight are *not* a deterrent to
a guy who is willing to steal an industrial air conditioning unit with a
meth-head buddy, a couple of strap wenches and a beat up pickup truck cart
it away in.

Now imagine I tell that same meth-head that I'd pay him 5 times as much as
scrap rates to steal something like what he's used to stealing, probably
better packaged, but in a residence (no security guards).

A touch of paranoia is apropos.

KJ

​

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Jerry Weiss]

If you are running backup and it is asking for additional tapes, then I believe 
you can do the following

^Y
$spawn
$
$reply/enable=all

initialize additional tapes as needed  (prior tape should have rewound…)
mount tape

$reply/to=MESSAGEID
$exit
$continue



Jerry Weiss  WB9MRI
j...@ieee.org



> On Jun 13, 2015, at 8:04 PM, Mark J. Blair  wrote:
> 
> Thanks! I will try that out. 
> 
>> On Jun 13, 2015, at 18:01, Glen Slick  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 5:45 PM, Mark J. Blair  wrote:
>>> Thanks, I will read that. But how do I enter the reply command when the 
>>> BACKUP program is hogging the console? Is there a VMS equivalent to the way 
>>> a task can be suspended in UNIX with ^Z?
>> 
>> I'm no expert, but I think you can sometimes do ^Y, and then CONTINUE,
>> but only if you only execute built-in commands between the ^Y and the
>> CONTINUE.

Re: First VAX-11/730 VMS Boot! (was: Re: VAX-11/730 %BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check)

[Mark J. Blair]

Thanks! I'll look up all of those commands to understand them better. 

^Y looks familiar. I think this is the second time I have learned about it. :)

> On Jun 13, 2015, at 18:40, Jerry Weiss  wrote:
> 
> If you are running backup and it is asking for additional tapes, then I 
> believe you can do the following
> 
> ^Y
> $spawn
> $
> $reply/enable=all
> 
> initialize additional tapes as needed  (prior tape should have rewound…)
> mount tape
> 
> $reply/to=MESSAGEID
> $exit
> $continue
> 
> 
> 
> Jerry Weiss  WB9MRI
> j...@ieee.org
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 13, 2015, at 8:04 PM, Mark J. Blair  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks! I will try that out. 
>> 
 On Jun 13, 2015, at 18:01, Glen Slick  wrote:
 
 On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 5:45 PM, Mark J. Blair  wrote:
 Thanks, I will read that. But how do I enter the reply command when the 
 BACKUP program is hogging the console? Is there a VMS equivalent to the 
 way a task can be suspended in UNIX with ^Z?
>>> 
>>> I'm no expert, but I think you can sometimes do ^Y, and then CONTINUE,
>>> but only if you only execute built-in commands between the ^Y and the
>>> CONTINUE.
> 

Re: SIO2SD for Atari 8-bits - Just got one.

[COURYHOUSE]

that is neat  where can  we  get one!?
 
 
In a message dated 6/13/2015 4:28:28 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
te...@webweavers.co.nz writes:

I'm in  awe of people who can build and design these  devices
http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2015-06-13-sio2sd-for-atari.htm

Terry  (Tez)

ultra sonic washing

[Adrian Stoness]

has anyone experimented with this on parts? when dealing with dirty
equipment?
if so what works best for liquid sulutions?

ive got a shelf of 15in bass drivers and some amps thinking of building
something to clean some audio boards i aquired on the cheap though maybe
some folks here would have some ideas?

Re: SIO2SD for Atari 8-bits - Just got one.

[Terry Stewart]

That is neat  where can  we  get one!?

You can order there here:
http://lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=63

Terry (Tez)

On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 2:54 PM,  wrote:

> that is neat  where can  we  get one!?
>
>
> In a message dated 6/13/2015 4:28:28 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
> te...@webweavers.co.nz writes:
>
> I'm in  awe of people who can build and design these  devices
> http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2015-06-13-sio2sd-for-atari.htm
>
> Terry  (Tez)
>
>

RE: TRS80, other than model 1

[tony duell]

>
>The double cassette ports.

Exactly. The switching relay in the expansion interface. 

Did anyone ever use this feature?

> > On Jun 13, 2015, at 4:08 PM, tony duell  wrote:
> >
> > Trivia question : What feature was present on all disk based M1s (in fact 
> > any M1 with an expansion
> > interface) but not on any M3 or M4 machines?

-tony

Re: ultra sonic washing

[wulfman]

nothing like running them through the dishwasher with hot water and good
soap.
I repair old arcade boards and i have found nothing better.
after they are hot from the wash you blow them off with compressed air
till try
and leave them in a rack in case you missed any water.
as long as they dry fast there will be no chance of damage.
on the off chance there is a component that must not get wet
you can remove it and re solder it once clean
this method removes all manor of issues from tobbaco smoke residue to
mouse poops and pees.
once clean if there is any corroded areas they can be repaired.



On 6/13/2015 8:16 PM, Adrian Stoness wrote:
> has anyone experimented with this on parts? when dealing with dirty
> equipment?
> if so what works best for liquid sulutions?
>
> ive got a shelf of 15in bass drivers and some amps thinking of building
> something to clean some audio boards i aquired on the cheap though maybe
> some folks here would have some ideas?
>


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Re: SIO2SD for Atari 8-bits - Just got one.

[Mark J. Blair]

I have one of his regular floppy disk emulators. I haven't actually used it 
yet, but it is put together very nicely. When I get around to trying out the 
Atari 8 bit world for the first time, I guess I will need an SIO2SD. I gather 
that those are must-haves, much like the CFFA3000 is for the Apple II.  

> On Jun 13, 2015, at 20:45, Terry Stewart  wrote:
> 
> That is neat  where can  we  get one!?
> 
> You can order there here:
> http://lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=63
> 
> Terry (Tez)
> 
>> On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 2:54 PM,  wrote:
>> 
>> that is neat  where can  we  get one!?
>> 
>> 
>> In a message dated 6/13/2015 4:28:28 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
>> te...@webweavers.co.nz writes:
>> 
>> I'm in  awe of people who can build and design these  devices
>> http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2015-06-13-sio2sd-for-atari.htm
>> 
>> Terry  (Tez)
>> 
>> 

Kaypro II

[Benjamin Huntsman]

Anyone interested in a Kaypro II in decent shape, complete with a couple of 
keyboard overlays?
for trade or for sale...

thanks!

-Ben