Re: Memory options for an HP 1000 (HP 21MX / 2112A)
Dave, Super useful info again. In the meantime the machine has arrived, in very good shape. I'll post pictures when I have time tomorrow, and a video hopefully. I took a quick look inside to confirm - there is a DCPC and a MEM protect card - Memory controller is an older 2102A - Three are three 8k 2102A memory boards - No MEM card in slot 112 - Under the processor board there is a screwed on card, which seems to have ROM on it. Microcode I presume, but I don't know if that's the one you were talking about. I'll post photos to confirm The IO cards and the paper tape reader / punch that came with it suggest that it was configured with a paper tape reader, a paper tape punch, a mag tape and a TTY interface. A plausible story is that this was an early machine setup for paper tape and TTY and didn't have extended memory. The early 2102A controller fits that picture well. So I might be in the hunt for the cards or alternate solutions you mentioned. Marc From: "J. David Bryan" On Tuesday, May 19, 2015 at 23:12, Marc Verdiell wrote: > Thanks, very useful info, and the manual is indeed what I was missing. You're welcome. > But now where to find the DMS, with two cards in particular, that's > not going easy to find both that match... First, are you sure that the machine does not have DMS installed? It was a very common option that became standard later on, as all versions of the RTE operating system after RTE-II (circa 1976) required it. Second, if the machine originally came with DMS but was stripped for resale, then possibly only the MEM card (in slot 112) was removed. The firmware card is screwed onto the CPU board on the underside of the machine and is only accessible if the bottom cover is removed. So maybe it was overlooked, and the availability of MEM cards is likely to be reasonable, as the same card (but with different firmware) was used in the E/F-Series machines. Third, if the machine has neither DMS part, then indeed finding an M-Series DMS firmware card might be difficult. However, DMS firmware was also included with the later M-Series Fast FORTRAN Processor firmware (product number 12977B). Again, the FFP was a common option, and availability of that card might be better than the older standalone DMS firmware card. Fourth, if you can find a standalone MEM card, the M-Series DMS/FFP firmware source is part of the HP 1000 Software Collection on Bitsavers, so you could burn the required firmware PROMs and install them on a 12791A Firmware Expansion Module card, which plugs into the I/O backplane and cables to the CPU board. Both the FEM and the MEM were used on E/F-Series machines, so availability should be reasonable. Finally, the simplest HP operating system that used DMS (RTE-III) had additional hardware requirements: a Memory Protect card, a Dual-Channel Port Controller (i.e., DMA) card, one of several console I/O cards, a Time- Base Generator (i.e., clock) card, and either an HP 7900A or 7905/06/20/25A hard drive and its associated I/O interface(s). The latter may be the most difficult and expensive part. You can avoid the hard drive and use Ansgar Kueckes' HPDrive emulator with an HP-IB I/O card, but that requires RTE-IVB as the minimum OS, which requires at least 96KW of memory (128KW if you want to do anything other than boot the system :-). MP and DCPC also were exceedingly common options, so I'd be surprised if your system didn't contain them, unless they've been stripped out for resale. Without DMS, you're limited to 32KW. In that, you could run (with some additional hardware, most notably an HP hard drive) DOS-III or RTE-II. Without a hard drive, you'd be limited to running one of several paper tape or mag tape-based HP OSes. There are third-party OSes that run on the 1000, but I know nothing about them. At least software is no problem; virtually everything that HP developed for the 2116/2100/1000 machines is available via the Bitsavers collection. -- Dave
Re: 8-bit Computer TV Channel Use
I've ordered a $15 composite to HDMI converter from Amazon to try out for myself with my Apple IIe and IIc. I'd also like to try out my Color Computers with a modern monitor to see if the color aliasing used by some games can be reproduced. I don't have a modern television, but I might still have a crusty old VCR out in the junk pile whose tuner output could be fed into the $15 converter. -- Mark J. Blair, NF6X http://www.nf6x.net/
Re: 8-bit Computer TV Channel Use
On May 22, 2015, at 9:26 AM, Mark J. Blair wrote: > I've ordered a $15 composite to HDMI converter from Amazon to try out for > myself with my Apple IIe and IIc. I'd also like to try out my Color Computers > with a modern monitor to see if the color aliasing used by some games can be > reproduced. I don't have a modern television, but I might still have a crusty > old VCR out in the junk pile whose tuner output could be fed into the $15 > converter. I’m anxious to hear reports on it. I’ve tried a lot of different things and so far nothing can handle the NTSC color signal that the Apple II puts out. Same with the Atari 800. I just end up with a monochrome screen with lines instead of colors. -- Follow me on twitter: @FozzTexx Check out my blog: http://insentricity.com
network event
Yesterday afternoon we had a "network event" on our storage network. Traffic was flowing, but with severe drops in connections. We believe we have most - but not all - resolved at this point. Unfortunately, in the thick of battle production machines come first so classiccmp server sat down for a while and was just brought back up. Apologies for the inconvenience.. Going to sleep now. J
Re: 8-bit Computer TV Channel Use
On 05/22/2015 01:15 PM, Chris Osborn wrote: I’m anxious to hear reports on it. I’ve tried a lot of different things and so far nothing can handle the NTSC color signal that the Apple II puts out. Same with the Atari 800. I just end up with a monochrome screen with lines instead of colors. Do you have anything like Freecycle in your area? Usually, if you say you're looking for an old-style TV, people will jump at the chance to give away the old sets. --Chuck
Re: network event
On 05/22/2015 01:20 PM, Jay West wrote: Apologies for the inconvenience.. Going to sleep now. I, for one, didn't even notice. Thanks for the dilligent work! --Chuck
RE: network event
Chuck wrote... - I, for one, didn't even notice. - I really really wish I could say the same. Truly. Thanks for the dilligent work! Thanks.
Re: 8-bit Computer TV Channel Use
On Fri, 22 May 2015, Mark J. Blair wrote: I've ordered a $15 composite to HDMI converter from Amazon to try out for myself with my Apple IIe and IIc. I'd also like to try out my Color Computers with a modern monitor to see if the color aliasing used by some games can be reproduced. I don't have a modern television, but I might still have a crusty old VCR out in the junk pile whose tuner output could be fed into the $15 converter. If'n you want composite, instead of RF on Coco, it is truly trivial to connect, once you open the case (guess what the input to the RF modulator is)
RE: network event
On Fri, 22 May 2015, Jay West wrote: Chuck wrote... - I, for one, didn't even notice. - I really really wish I could say the same. Truly. Well you're the guy behind the curtain. We're forbidden from noticing you. :D g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
Re: 8-bit Computer TV Channel Use
Yes, video is tricky. I've just had an experience which emphasizes the topic under discussion. Just recently I got hold of an Amstrad CPC 464. http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/collection/amstradcpc464.htm It didn't come with its screen though (dedicated screens were sold with the machine). However British enthusiasts had developed an RGB to SCART cable for this very problem. Problem for me was that although SCART is a common video interface in Europe, it's rare in New Zealand. However I noted there were SCART--->composite video adaptors around. I figured that if I got both devices, i could hook the 464 up to a composite input in an old TV. I did just that and, you guessed it, monochrome output. The colour disappeared for some reason. Some research on the web showed this was a common problem and results could vary with these conversion devices. The good news is that a local has a colour Amstrad screen he's gifting to me. Arrives Monday, so problem solved. Terry (Tez)
Re: 8-bit Computer TV Channel Use
On May 22, 2015, at 1:31 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > Do you have anything like Freecycle in your area? Usually, if you say you're > looking for an old-style TV, people will jump at the chance to give away the > old sets. Heh, I have a few already. :-) I’ve even got one of those funny looking ones that has knobs on it. With VHF & UHF dials. And fine tuning. And only screw terminals on the back, none of those fancy RCA/phono jack connectors on it. I really need to do a cap kit on it though, it takes forever to warm up, and the tuning drifts while it’s on and I have to change the channel and then back to get it to lock on again. -- Follow me on twitter: @FozzTexx Check out my blog: http://insentricity.com
Re: 8-bit Computer TV Channel Use
On Fri, 22 May 2015, Chris Osborn wrote: Heh, I have a few already. :-) I’ve even got one of those funny looking ones that has knobs on it. With VHF & UHF dials. And fine tuning. And only screw terminals on the back, none of those fancy RCA/phono jack connectors on it. A little over half a century ago, UHF was an extra price option! My brother and I pooled our money and bought a 19" Philco "portable". Our father chipped in the additional to get UHF. I remember watching the Cuban missile crisis on it, with my father muttering, "The SOB has gotten us into war!"
Re: 8-bit Computer TV Channel Use
On 05/22/2015 04:54 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: A little over half a century ago, UHF was an extra price option! My brother and I pooled our money and bought a 19" Philco "portable". Our father chipped in the additional to get UHF. I remember watching the Cuban missile crisis on it, with my father muttering, "The SOB has gotten us into war!" I used to have an old TV with a continuous VHF tuner that included channel 1. You flipped a switch to tune channels 7-13. I do recall those UHF converter boxes, though--as well as the CBS sets with the socket (dodecar?) on the back of the chassis for the color wheel adapter. One of the electronics junk shops near my home had wooden crates full of the color wheels (no adapters though). --Chuck
Logic Analyzer software for the HP-IB/RS-232 bus pre-processor HP 10342B
This has probably been asked before, but does anyone have the software package that came with the HP-IB/RS232 HP10342 bus pre-processor for the HP1650 series Logic Analyzer (actually I have a 1670G)? It should have a config file and an inverse assembler file. I'm interested in the HP-IB files. Can't find it anywhere. - Marc
Re: 54 TK50 tapes on eBay
On 05/21/2015 01:19 AM, Jochen Kunz wrote: Am 20.05.15 um 22:41 schrieb Jon Elson: It largely depends on storage conditions. Sorry I can not afford a climate controlled cabinet. The tapes where stored in my "machine room", i.e. a normal bedroom in my flat. The "bad" conditions I mentioned were attics and damp basements. Any normal home environment should be quite good for tape storage. Jon
RE: 8-bit Computer TV Channel Use
> Yes, video is tricky. I've just had an experience which emphasizes the > topic under discussion. The main problems stem from the fact that these computers output anything but broadcast-standard video. In some cases it was because they were built to a price and it was 'what can we get away with'. In others it was more a case of getting extra features (like colour) almost for free. > Just recently I got hold of an Amstrad CPC 464. > http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/collection/amstradcpc464.htm Incidentally, one of the better things (for me) about Amstrad machines is that service manuals existed for them. Said manuals are essentially a schematic and a parts list, but that is all that is normally needed. Certainly for the older machines (all the CPCs and PCWs and the earlier PCs) they are not just boardswapper guides. > It didn't come with its screen though (dedicated screens were sold with the > machine). However British enthusiasts had developed an RGB to SCART cable What are you doing for the PSU (the computer ran off the SMPSU in the monitor IIRC)? > for this very problem. Problem for me was that although SCART is a common > video interface in Europe, it's rare in New Zealand. However I noted there One problem with SCART (and I don't think it's the cause of your problems) is that it is several interfaces on one connector. In particular there is composite video, RGB video (using the composite pin for sync) and later S-video (using the composite pin for Y and IIRC the 'red' pin for C). Not all devices implement all parts of the interface. In particular UK TVs almost always have the RGB inputs, VCRs did not. The CPC output is RGB video, and AFAIK the CPC-SCART cable is a simple cable with perhaps level-shifting resistors inside. So it will use the RGB pins on the SCART connector. -tony
Re: 8-bit Computer TV Channel Use
>What are you doing for the PSU >(the computer ran off the SMPSU in the monitor IIRC)? The cable "kit" came with a stand-alone PSU. This works fine. Yes, I don't know what the problem is. It could be the cheap "no-brand" SCART <--> composite video/s-video converter (the signal can go either way). Anyway, it's better to have the genuine screen, so I'm glad I'm getting that. Terry (Tez) On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 4:32 PM, tony duell wrote: > > Yes, video is tricky. I've just had an experience which emphasizes the > > topic under discussion. > > The main problems stem from the fact that these computers output anything > but broadcast-standard video. In some cases it was because they were built > to a price and it was 'what can we get away with'. In others it was more a > case > of getting extra features (like colour) almost for free. > > > Just recently I got hold of an Amstrad CPC 464. > > http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/collection/amstradcpc464.htm > > Incidentally, one of the better things (for me) about Amstrad machines > is that service manuals existed for them. Said manuals are essentially > a schematic and a parts list, but that is all that is normally needed. > Certainly > for the older machines (all the CPCs and PCWs and the earlier PCs) they are > not just boardswapper guides. > > > It didn't come with its screen though (dedicated screens were sold with > the > > machine). However British enthusiasts had developed an RGB to SCART cable > > What are you doing for the PSU (the computer ran off the SMPSU in the > monitor > IIRC)? > > > for this very problem. Problem for me was that although SCART is a common > > video interface in Europe, it's rare in New Zealand. However I noted > there > > One problem with SCART (and I don't think it's the cause of your problems) > is that > it is several interfaces on one connector. In particular there is > composite video, > RGB video (using the composite pin for sync) and later S-video (using the > composite pin for Y and IIRC the 'red' pin for C). Not all devices > implement all > parts of the interface. In particular UK TVs almost always have the RGB > inputs, > VCRs did not. > > The CPC output is RGB video, and AFAIK the CPC-SCART cable is a simple > cable > with perhaps level-shifting resistors inside. So it will use the RGB pins > on the > SCART connector. > > -tony >
Re: Memory options for an HP 1000 (HP 21MX / 2112A)
On Thursday, May 21, 2015 at 23:45, Marc Verdiell wrote: > I took a quick look inside to confirm > > - there is a DCPC and a MEM protect card Good. (To avoid confusion with the Memory Expansion Module, the latter card is usually designated MP or Memory Protect.) > - No MEM card in slot 112 OK. > - Under the processor board there is a screwed on card, which seems to > have ROM on it. Microcode I presume, but I don't know if that's the one > you were talking about. One such card is present in all M-Series systems and contains the microcode for the base set of instructions. If there's DMS or FFP/DMS firmware present, it would be on a second such card, mounted next to and connected via an edge-card connector socket to the base set card. It sounds as though DMS is not present. > The IO cards and the paper tape reader / punch that came with it > suggest that it was configured with a paper tape reader, a paper tape > punch, a mag tape and a TTY interface. A plausible story is that this > was an early machine setup for paper tape and TTY and didn't have > extended memory. A reasonable assumption. Did it come with any software on paper tape (or mag tape)? > So I might be in the hunt for the cards or alternate solutions you > mentioned. I'd suggest that the question to answer first is whether you want to expend the effort and expense to gather the moderate amount of additional hardware necessary to run one of the more advanced disc-based OS versions that can use DMS. Note that the design of the memory mapping hardware in the 1000 requires explicit software support (i.e., programming of the DMS hardware) in order to use more than 32KW of memory. Earlier OSes that did not support DMS will simply ignore all memory in the machine over 32K, even when DMS is present. With the hardware you have, you can run a paper-tape based OS, such as BCS (the Basic Control System) in 24K. BCS is fairly primitive, but it does offer an assembler, FORTRAN IV, and ALGOL compilers, and paper-tape BASIC interpreters were also available (from the user contributed library). The hardware requirements for running the disc-based RTEs are listed on these HP Computer Museum pages: http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?sw=565 http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?sw=566 -- Dave
Seeking keyboard for Compaq Portable
Does anyone here have a spare keyboard for a Compaq Portable? -- David Griffith d...@661.org A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
RE: Seeking keyboard for Compaq Portable
Hi Dave, Did you try replacing the decayed conductive foamies under the keys? This was a keytronic design, and I think my search began with that It worked for me. Shame on me for not keeping good records to give you the instant source of the material I used, it was 1/8 conductive foam with aluminum on both sides. Purchase records are here somewhere, I will find them for you... Randy > Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 04:57:14 + > From: d...@661.org > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Seeking keyboard for Compaq Portable > > > Does anyone here have a spare keyboard for a Compaq Portable? > > -- > David Griffith > d...@661.org > > A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? > A: Top-posting. > Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
Looking for RL11 (Unibus RL02 controller)
I've been using my lone RL02 with my QBus systems, I'd love to be able to use it with my 11/34 as well. (If anyone has a spare RL02 *drive* I'd be interested as well...) I have various DEC stuff for trade, drop me a line if you have one going spare. Thanks! Josh
Re: network event
On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 02:10:44PM -0700, geneb wrote: > On Fri, 22 May 2015, Jay West wrote: > > >Chuck wrote... > >- > >I, for one, didn't even notice. > >- > >I really really wish I could say the same. Truly. > > > Well you're the guy behind the curtain. We're forbidden from > noticing you. :D > Reminds me of that futurama quote: "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." Thanks Jay, for your time and effort. /P
RE: Seeking keyboard for Compaq Portable
I've tried actuating the pads by hand. I'm told that's supposed to work. It doesn't. On Fri, 22 May 2015, Randy Dawson wrote: Hi Dave, Did you try replacing the decayed conductive foamies under the keys? This was a keytronic design, and I think my search began with that It worked for me. Shame on me for not keeping good records to give you the instant source of the material I used, it was 1/8 conductive foam with aluminum on both sides. Purchase records are here somewhere, I will find them for you... Randy > Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 04:57:14 + > From: d...@661.org > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Seeking keyboard for Compaq Portable > > > Does anyone here have a spare keyboard for a Compaq Portable? > > -- > David Griffith > d...@661.org > > A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? > A: Top-posting. > Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? -- David Griffith d...@661.org A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
