Re: Article - GNU HURD: Altered visions and lost promise
it was a good article no? On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Jure Repinc wrote: > I've just seen a new article about GNU Hurd: > http://www.h-online.com/open/features/GNU-HURD-Altered-visions-and-lost- > promise-1030942.html > > I've found this through Reddit: > http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/duplicates/ckjt2/gnu_hurd_altered_visions_and_lost_promise/ > > I guess we can expect a lot of wrong statements in comments people make there > so it would probably be good if Hurd developers keep an eye on it and correct > mistakes with facts. > > Have a great time, > Jure "JLP" Repinc > >
Re: Article - GNU HURD: Altered visions and lost promise
i see the article says that Marcus Brinkmann and Neal Walfield are the main developers. i dont see anything from them on the bug-hurd mailing list are they still the main or most active developers? M, wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 01:07:51PM -0500, Oz wrote: >> On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Jure Repinc >> wrote: > >> > I've just seen a new article about GNU Hurd: >> > http://www.h-online.com/open/features/GNU-HURD-Altered-visions-and-lost- >> > promise-1030942.html > >> it was a good article no? > > I can't say I like it very much... IMHO it gives a wrong impression -- > the article, and especially the title. While it became obvious that the > original goal of developing a kernel faster failed long ago, I don't > think the vision changend otherwise at all. > > Especially the last page gives an impression that the developers don't > know how to proceed. That's a major exaggeration. Some developers were > experimenting with the possibility of using alternative microkernels a > couple of years ago; and that's all. > > This is actually a pity, as otherwise this article could be quite > interesting to people not familiar with the history -- while I have seen > most of the quotes in various contexts before, I haven't seen them all > in one place thus far. But the way it is written, I feel that the > article does more for spreading misunderstanding than for informing > people how things really are. > > -antrik- > >
mentor
i want to start helping to hack on the hurd is there a mentor-ship available. I have been on the mailing list for over i year, can someone help me get involved?
Re: Article - GNU HURD: Altered visions and lost promise
thanks for the clarification On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 10:01 AM, wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, Jul 06, 2010 at 12:15:13AM -0500, Oz wrote: > >> i see the article says that Marcus Brinkmann and Neal Walfield are >> the main developers. i dont see anything from them on the bug-hurd >> mailing list are they still the main or most active developers? > > They aren't -- and that's part of why I consider the article so > confusing. > > Both Neal and Marcus focused on Hurd/L4 completely since around 2005 or > so, pretty much ceasing any major development on the mainline > implementation. After they realized Hurd/L4 is doomed, they moved on to > Coyotos, and finally their own microkernel experiments. Marcus concluded > at some point that the ideal system he envisions would be too much > effort to be realistic. Neal continued his research work on Viengoos for > a while, but also took some time out now. (He hopes to continue work on > it at some point, but doesn't know yet when and how.) > > What I'm saying is that they (currently) aren't doing any Hurd > development at all; and before that, they have done research work for > the last couple of years -- most mainline Hurd development was done by > others for at least five years now. > > -antrik- > >
Re: ext3 or other journalling file system for Hurd?
instead of ext3 do you all want to dp btrfs? On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: > Svante Signell, le Fri 21 Jan 2011 21:39:06 +0100, a écrit : >> are advances just happening according to peoples interests? > > That, mostly. > > Samuel > >
Re: ext3 or other journalling file system for Hurd?
instead of ext3 do you all want to do btrfs? On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Oz wrote: > instead of ext3 do you all want to dp btrfs? > > On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Samuel Thibault > wrote: >> Svante Signell, le Fri 21 Jan 2011 21:39:06 +0100, a écrit : >>> are advances just happening according to peoples interests? >> >> That, mostly. >> >> Samuel >> >> >
Re: GSoC 2011
when will gnu/hurd be easy to install for a noob like me i fail every time. do you think the live cd installer will have an experience like debian gnu/linux in the near future. Is a live cd available for debian gnu/hurd? On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 2:29 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Hi, > > On Thursday 10 February 2011 03:26:51 olafbuddenha...@gmx.net wrote: >> On Sun, Feb 06, 2011 at 06:33:46PM +0100, Samuel Thibault wrote: >> > That doesn't look to me like something we can really propose as GSoC. >> >> Why not?... > > “Polish the working d-i for GNU Hurd to bring it on par with the d-i for > GNU/Linux.” ? > > Best wishes, > Arne >
live cd
does anyone have an estimated time GNU/Hurd might be available as a live cd for a noob like me to install. Somthing similar to the ubuntu GNU/linux?
Re: live cd
thanks i appreciate the help. I will try the arch hurd live cd since it is a recent build. On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: > Svante Signell, le Thu 24 Feb 2011 22:24:27 +0100, a écrit : >> On Thu, 2011-02-24 at 14:15 -0600, Oz wrote: >> > does anyone have an estimated time GNU/Hurd might be available as a >> > live cd for a noob like me to install. Somthing similar to the ubuntu >> > GNU/linux? >> >> Arch Hurd has a live CD: >> http://www.archhurd.org/ >> >> Otherwise you can install GNU/Hurd in a VM like qemu-kvm using the >> Debian installer: >> http://people.debian.org/~sthibault/hurd-i386/installer/cdimage/ > > Or simply use the last qemu image that was built: > > http://dept-info.labri.fr/~thibault/tmp/debian-hurd-17042010-qemu.img.tar.gz > > Samuel > >
Re: live cd
Debian Gnu/Hurd seems to be complicated to install from what i understand because 1 its not a live cd or install cd. 2-you need qemu virtulization. I want to run it natevly as the sole operating system on one netbook i have. i dont know or understand much i am a ubuntu gnu/linux user and have been using gnu/linux for a couple of years and am truly a noob compared to you guys but want to use a fully free system and support the gnu project. but i need the easiesest route possible :) thats why i was think about the arch hurd live cd. On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Svante Signell wrote: > On Fri, 2011-02-25 at 09:25 -0600, Oz wrote: >> thanks i appreciate the help. I will try the arch hurd live cd since >> it is a recent build. > > Well, the Debian installer image is the most recent one. It is from > February 21, 2011, the live CD is from December 2010. Never mind, > welcome to try the GNU/Hurd out! Please let us know about your > experiences. > > Thank you for not top-posting in your next mail. > >
Fwd: live cd
-- Forwarded message -- From: Oz Date: Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 4:24 PM Subject: Re: live cd To: Michael Walker i am happy with unstable and slow, if its not to hard to install. :) On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Michael Walker wrote: > On 25 February 2011 21:44, Oz wrote: >> Debian Gnu/Hurd seems to be complicated to install from what i >> understand because 1 its not a live cd or install cd. 2-you need qemu >> virtulization. I want to run it natevly as the sole operating system >> on one netbook i have. i dont know or understand much i am a ubuntu >> gnu/linux user and have been using gnu/linux for a couple of years and >> am truly a noob compared to you guys but want to use a fully free >> system and support the gnu project. but i need the easiesest route >> possible :) thats why i was think about the arch hurd live cd. >> > > If you're going to use the graphical one, be warned that that's pretty > much just a proof-of-concept. It's a pet project one of the devs is > working on and is pretty slow/unstable. Also, the official > installation CD is pretty unstable, too. > > -- > Michael Walker (http://www.barrucadu.co.uk) > > Arch Hurd Developer; GNU Webmaster; FSF member #8385 > http://www.archhurd.org http://www.gnu.org http://www.fsf.org >
Re: live cd
why are there to install images here? whats the difference with the 2 at this link? http://people.debian.org/~sthibault/hurd-i386/installer/cdimage/ On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 6:29 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: > Oz, le Fri 25 Feb 2011 15:44:14 -0600, a écrit : >> Debian Gnu/Hurd seems to be complicated to install from what i >> understand because 1 its not a live cd or install cd. >> 2-you need qemu virtulization. > > You are mixing two things here. > > http://dept-info.labri.fr/~thibault/tmp/debian-hurd-17042010-qemu.img.tar.gz > > is a qemu image from april 2010, ready to run in qemu, but can also be > dd-ed to a disk for use on a native machine. It's a bit old however. > > http://people.debian.org/~sthibault/hurd-i386/installer/cdimage/ > > is the Debian hurd-i386 Installer updated early february, it _is_ an > install CD, up to date. > >> i dont know or understand much i am a ubuntu >> gnu/linux > > Then the Debian installer should be fine, since then you'll end up with > an Ubuntu-like system in terms of apt-get/dpkg. > > That's not as easy as a liveCD of course. > > Samuel >
Re: live cd
thanks i got the latest off the link. i dont have a cd rom drive on my netbook do you know if it is possible to install this image using a usb? On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 8:58 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: > Oz, le Fri 25 Feb 2011 20:49:03 -0600, a écrit : >> why are there to install images here? whats the difference with the 2 >> at this link? >> >> http://people.debian.org/~sthibault/hurd-i386/installer/cdimage/ > > Just the date they were built. > > Samuel >
bootable usb
Could you please tell me how to make a boot able usb image using your mini iso samuel. i don't think copy and pasting the ISO in to the thumb drive (usb stick) will work. On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: > Oz, le Fri 25 Feb 2011 21:18:31 -0600, a écrit : >> do you know if it is possible to install this image using a usb? > > Err. I believe it does work, yes, can't you just try and see? > > Samuel >
bootable usb
icelogic@icelogic-GA-870A-UD3:~$ sudo dd < /home/icelogic/Downloads/mini-20110221.iso > /dev/sdb bash: /dev/sdb: Permission denied does anyone know how to fix this error? thanks in advance.
Re: bootable usb
root@icelogic-GA-870A-UD3:/home/icelogic# dd < /home/icelogic/Downloads/mini-20110221.iso > /dev/sdb 0+0 records in 0+0 records out 0 bytes (0 B) copied, 6.2624e-05 s, 0.0 kB/s lol now i get this and nothing copies :( On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: > Oz, le Sat 26 Feb 2011 18:38:39 -0600, a écrit : >> icelogic@icelogic-GA-870A-UD3:~$ sudo dd < >> /home/icelogic/Downloads/mini-20110221.iso > /dev/sdb >> bash: /dev/sdb: Permission denied >> >> >> >> does anyone know how to fix this error? > > Become root. > > Samuel >
Re: bootable usb
Samuel can you please send me the link to the Hurd mini I got mad and deleted everything by accident. On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 11:41 AM, Samuel Thibault wrote: > Jakub Daniel, le Sun 27 Feb 2011 17:33:04 +, a écrit : >> I also presumed that it wouldnt be possible as gnumach/hurd would not be >> able >> to access anything on the disk other than preloaded by grub which i supposed >> was vital for running hurd based os. > > Yes, that's why in Debian we patched gnumach to add an initrd support. > > Samuel > >
Re: XKB's keymaps for the Hurd console
awsome sounds like i'll be playing some quake 3 mods in the near future on the hurd. On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Diego Nieto Cid wrote: > Hi, > > Finally, after doing some cleaning, here is the formal submission of the > code resulting from integrating Marco Gerards' driver with the existing > keyboard driver and fixing some bugs. > > The repository is located at github under the following address: > > git://github.com/diegonc/console-xkb-support.git > > and the interesting branch is named 'submission'. It's not the default > branch so you may want to clone using the no-checkout option. > > A summary of the changes is included below. I tried to keep the original > author information where appropiate. However, I couldn't find accurate > information about the patches used in the current Debian package. > > Alexander Preisinger (2): > README update > Add neo support > > Arne Babenhauserheide (1): > Added an example for selecting the keymap. > > Diego Nieto Cid (38): > Remove keyboard driver from XKB implementation. > Export function to load the keaboard layout. > Use external encoding converter. > debian patch: 06_gcc-4.1_fix.patch > Add type to $$ in mid-rules. > Add missing semicolons bison was inserting. > Translate scancodes using XKB. > Install XKB data files. > debian patch: 03_hurd_keymap.patch > debian patch: 04_cleanups.patch > Lexer support for keycodes with +/- symbols and arbitrary level numbers. > Skip to main file's default section when needed. > Update key type assigment routine. > Recreate xkb/keymap/hurd from xkeyboard-config-1.8's xfree86 keymap. > Rule vmod returns an int with the vmod's bit on. > Avoid hashing garbage for short keynames. > Warn when too many virtual modifier are defined. > Give the file name and line number where an unexpected end of file was > found. > Propagate error on unexpected end of files. > Check for end of file. > Add function to read the state of the scanner. > Report inexistent section. > Emit warnings on undeclared virtual modifiers. > Add debugging messages. > Use vfprintf in debug_printf and write to stderr. > Remove obsolete variable declaration. > Enable hurd extensions in every layout. > Fix memory errors. > Fix handling of error conditions. > 'vmods' is an alias for 'virtual_modifiers'. > * console-client/xkb/xkb.c (iskeypad): Access up to 'width' symbols. > Document new options. > Update foreign files. > Add support for hexadecimal symbols. > Symbols 0..9 stand for their ascii character. > * console-client/xkb/parser.y (include_section): Remove superflous > strdup. > * console-client/xkb/parser.y (include_section): Free filename. > Use first section when there's no default. > > Marco Gerards (1): > Add XKB parser and implementation. > > -- > diego > > >
Re: XKB's keymaps for the Hurd console
lol i think that was his point, it will take quit a lot of waiting. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 5:20 PM, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: > Now you're just talking in crazy fantasy land. > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:39 AM, Michael Banck wrote: >> >> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 05:06:40PM -0500, Oz wrote: >> > awsome sounds like i'll be playing some quake 3 mods in the near >> > future on the hurd. >> >> I suggest you wait for Duke Nukem Forever. >> >> >> Michael >> > >
Re: Hurd stabilty: compiling ghc6
i dont know much but i definately second that and agree On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 12:58 PM, wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 11:13:40AM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote: > >> Many problems do come from kvm actually. That's one of the reasons why >> I prefer to use Xen. > > VirtualBox is also a good option. It's not as fast as Xen or KVM, but > much faster than plain QEMU; it doesn't have the stability problems some > people are seeing with KVM; and it's easier to set up than Xen. > > -antrik- > >
Re: IRC meeting 2011-05-10
1900 what time zone? On 5/9/11, olafbuddenha...@gmx.net wrote: > Hi, > > Just a quick reminder for the IRC meeting on Tuesday 19:00, as usual > irc.freenode.net channel #hurd. Tell us if there is anything you want to > discuss! :-) > > -antrik- > >
gnu/hurd live cd
i need a graphical live cd so i can use gnu/hurd i am a noob. anyone know when that will happen. i really want use the hurd and i need it to be easy i am mentally weak.
Re: IRC meeting 2011-05-25 (Wednesday!)
do you all ever hold meetings on saturdays? what day of the week are most of you off from work? On 5/22/11, olafbuddenha...@gmx.net wrote: > Hi, > > As Tuesday turned out problematic for many of the main contributors, we > will meet Wednesday instead this week. (At 19:00 UTC on irc.freenode.net > #hurd as usual.) > > This is still not ideal for everyone; so it might change again. Monday > was proposed, as well as changing the time. (Two hours earlier or later > should be fine.) Let us know whether either would be better, or > problematic for you. > > -antrik- > >
Re: IRC meeting 2011-05-25 (Wednesday!)
thanks this is the first reply i have gotten back. On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Richard Braun wrote: > On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 08:46:50PM -0500, Oz wrote: >> do you all ever hold meetings on saturdays? >> >> what day of the week are most of you off from work? > > Personally, when I'm not working, I'm not on IRC either, nor reading > mail. So saturdays or sundays would be problematic too. I guess it may > be the same for other people as well. > > -- > Richard Braun >
Re: IRC meeting 2011-05-25 (Wednesday!)
ok, thanks. On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 5:38 PM, wrote: > Hi, > > On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 08:46:50PM -0500, Oz wrote: > >> do you all ever hold meetings on saturdays? > > From previous discussions, we know that most people would prefer not to > do IRC meetings on weekends. People generally prefer doing all kinds of > other stuff on weekends, which they can't do during the week :-) > > -antrik- > >
Re: Kernel newbie involvement
good luck getting help from karl goatz with gnewsense/ hurd he has tight control over the project. He never even wanted to work with us when we wanted to update builder their script that makes the live cd. On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 2:56 AM, wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 12:11:05PM -0500, Quiliro Ordóñez wrote: > >> I would like to involve a CS students in this project. > > Great :-) We are always happy about new people getting involved in the > project. > >> The idea is to use gNewSense (which is the FSF approved version based >> on Debian). > > I'm not sure what you are saying here. Do you mean you want to work on > *creating* a Hurd variant of gNewSense; or you want to do other work > based on one?... > > As far as I know, gNewSense doesn't provide a Hurd variant so far -- or > at least we never heard about one. > >> Please give guidelines and steps to take to teach the necessary >> habilities for them to actively develop Hurd. They are new to GNU and >> have only basic bash experience. > > Well, the students will surely need a *lot* of guidance in the beginning > -- especially if they have little general UNIX experience... So I guess > the first step is for *you* to learn your ways around the Hurd project, > so you can in turn teach them :-) > > General information about getting involved in Hurd development can be > found on > > http://gnu.org/s/hurd/contributing.html > > Of course we will gladly answer any further question that come up -- > preferably on bug-hurd@gnu.org or in IRC (#hurd on irc.freenode.net). > > We are looking forward to hearing more about this :-) > > -antrik- > >
