Re: [Ayatana] Global menu in Oneiric Ocelot (11.10)

[anthropornis]

For me, using a laptop, I personally enjoy the combination of the global 
menu and the title bar in the same spot, i.e., the panel. I do tend to 
keep things maximized, and I do use (currently) 16 workspaces and the 
super-S expo feature. So I don't want to ~lose~ the current functionality.


So what I think would be interesting to try would be to make the default 
action consist of keeping the menus in the windows when a window is 
~not~ maximized, and merging the menu into the panel as is currently 
done when it is maximized.


In addition to that default action (which I think should be customizable 
for those who want to customize it), I do quite like the idea of a new 
window control button that toggles menu placement (and naturally, 
whether or not this additional button is displayed should be 
user-configurable).


Actually, I think there is a lot that could be done with the concept of 
window control buttons in the context of the new paradigm Unity is 
using. I still wonder also how "windicators" are going to fit in to all 
of this, particularly on smaller resolutions with default panel 
indicators already in place. Is the windicator project still going (I 
have been out of the loop on that, sorry)?


Just my two cents.


On 05/18/2011 09:15 AM, Niklas Rosenqvist wrote:
2011/5/18 Henrik Peytz >
> [...] and dragging the window will be problematic if the menus span 
the entirety of the window due to menu-overflow or resizing the window 
too small.


Agreed, it was the first thing I thought about when I read the suggestion.

> Or have a menu-toggle-button next to the other window-controls 
(close, maximize etc.) so the user can decide on a per-window-basis 
whether he wants the menus visible or not.


This on the other hand was highly interesting. This together with the 
title and menu merging with the top panel when an application is 
maximized would probably solve the most problems. Consider when you 
use nautilus, I at least never uses the menu since I only use it for 
browsing and lots of menu entries have keyboard shortcuts. But when 
you use a program like GIMP you always want to be able to reach the 
menu. If the setting is saved per application this could work really 
good. It would also leave it up to the developers how they want to 
design their menus, because when your not moving the menu up to the 
top panel you can choose to create menu buttons as Opera and Firefox 4 
features. This would leave much more freedom to the developers.


Or as an alternative can menu buttons ala Opera (can't call it firefox 
style since Opera actually was first with it) get created 
automatically and be an entry in the title bar. But what would cause 
other problems, e.g. the developers actually creating their own menu 
button and in that case it could get confusing.


2011/5/18 Thorsten Wilms mailto:t...@freenet.de>>
> Actually it's the several non-maximized windows case where a global 
menu shines regarding space efficiency, as you don't save only one 
menu bar area, but several.


This is of course true but that leads us to the question whether it's 
more important to have an efficient workflow or save 24px vertical 
space? For myself is the ease of access a higher priority, since an 
ineffective work flow will get you frustrated and slow down your 
effective work time.



2011/5/18 Henrik Peytz >


Or have a menu-toggle-button next to the other window-controls
(close, maximize etc.) so the user can decide on a
per-window-basis whether he wants the menus visible or not.
I think auto-hiding menus would be bad since it's possible for a
user to want to retain an overview of available menus, even if
that particular application is not in focus. This is particularly
true when learning a new application and the user doesn't remember
all the options available to him.

Moving the menu to the titlebar is also a solution, though people
will probably complain a about the clutter, and dragging the
window will be problematic if the menus span the entirety of the
window due to menu-overflow or resizing the window too small.


2011/5/18 Thorsten Wilms mailto:t...@freenet.de>>


Actually it's the several non-maximized windows case where a
global menu shines regarding space efficiency, as you don't
save only one menu bar area, but several.


It would be an interesting _experiment_ to render
non-maximized windows sans menus, and have the menu slide in
inside a window, once it gets and for as long as it has focus.
Or to avoid movement, switch between titles and menus in the
titlebars.


-- 
Thorsten Wilms


thorwil's design for free software:
http://thorwil.wordpress.com/


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Re: [Ayatana] Global menu in Oneiric Ocelot (11.10)

[anthropornis]

Please forgive me for asking a dumb question, but I am not a programmer, 
and I honestly don't know ...


Does making an application "Unity compatible" involve more than making 
the menu entries exportable over the DBus system? Relative to other 
programming issues, is that more difficult, less difficult, or the same 
difficulty as other common programming tasks?


I am just curious because I thought (perhaps incorrectly) that DBus was 
becoming fairly common, and I just also wondered if Ubuntu has a large 
market share among Linux distributions if it would not be desirable to 
do this irrespective of whether the DBus information is then taken up by 
something as specific as the Unity shell.




On 05/19/2011 04:50 AM, Ian Santopietro wrote:


Developers can choose to implement the Unity API for adding things to 
their launcher item, such as progress bars and quicklists. However, 
the global menu is done via gtk and dbus, and requires no effort on 
the part of the developer, provided the developer has implemented a 
standard gtk menu system.


On May 19, 2011 2:37 AM, "Niklas Rosenqvist" 
mailto:niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:

> Yes but this still would leave it up to the developers to make their
> programs Unity compatible and isn't that too much to ask from them? 
Can't a

> simpler implementation be found which doesn't need any changes in the
> applications so that people doesn't need to make their programs Ubuntu
> compatible and not just Debian?
>
> 2011/5/19 Ian Santopietro mailto:isan...@gmail.com>>
>
>> The reasoning for the global menu bar isn't just about saving 
screen space.
>> It's also about reduction of UI chrome to provide an interface that 
looks

>> cleaner and simpler. Mouse travel distance *is* irrelevant since mouse
>> acceleration allows for great travel distances from short, twitchy
>> movements. It is also easy to hit the menu, as it's on a screen 
edge and
>> easy to hit vertically. I work with a *trackpad* on a very large 
monitor,
>> and of all if the pointing issues I have, the only serious one is 
when I

>> need to aim in two dimensions.
>>
>> This brings to the real flaw with the global menu. As it's hidden by
>> default, users don't know what to aim at, thus forcing them to stop and
>> re-aim at the menu they want to use. This is the real speed killer 
with the
>> current global menu implementation. A better solution would be to 
have the

>> global menu visible by default.
>>
>> In the current implementation, there is a way to disable the global 
menu.

>> This should be easier to configure for users that don't want the global
>> menu. Also, I think adding an option to keep the current behavior 
would be
>> good, as I'm sure some people like the lack of visual clutter it 
provides.

>> On May 18, 2011 2:54 PM, "Niklas Rosenqvist" <
>> niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com 
> wrote:

>> > Sorry people for accidentally sending duplicates, here is the real
>> version:
>> >
>> > 2011/5/18 Bazon mailto:bazonbl...@arcor.de>>
>> >> i could also imagine a window grip button
>> >> for moving the window when the whole title bar is occupied by 
menus for

>> >> moving the window.
>> >
>> > Without testing I just get the feeling that this would be ineffective
>> since
>> > I know that I much more often move a window than go to it's menu. 
A small
>> > grip will probably be annoying to always find with your cursor. 
The whole
>> > title bar provides a much easier and faster way of rearranging 
windows.

>> >
>> > I made some sketching on this and came up with a mockup which you can
>> find
>> > here:
>> > http://i.imgur.com/f8q2c.png
>> >
>> > The three top images is describing the solution we've talked 
about and

>> the
>> > fourth image is an extension of the implementation we've 
discussed. This

>> > implementation is possible today thanks to a plugin, but it would be
>> sweet
>> > to have it natively.
>> >
>> > 2011/5/18 Niklas Rosenqvist >

>> >
>> >> 2011/5/18 Bazon mailto:bazonbl...@arcor.de>>
>> >> > i could also imagine a window grip button
>> >> > for moving the window when the whole title bar is occupied by 
menus

>> for
>> >> > moving the window.
>> >>
>> >> Without testing I just get the feeling that this would be 
ineffective

>> since
>> >> I know that I much more often move a window than go to it's menu. A
>> small
>> >> grip will probably be annoying to always find with your cursor. The
>> whole
>> >> title bar provides a much easier and faster way of rearranging 
windows.

>> >>
>> >> I made some sketching on this and came up with a mockup which 
you can

>> find
>> >> here:
>> >> http://i.imgur.com/f8q2c.png
>> >>
>> >> The three top images is describing the solution we've talked 
about and

>> the
>> >> fourth image is an extension of the implementation we've 
discussed. This

>> >> implementation is possible today thanks to a plugin, but it would be
>> sweet
>> >> to have it natively.
>>

[Ayatana] Fwd: Re: Global menu in Oneiric Ocelot (11.10)

[anthropornis]

 Original Message 
Subject:Re: [Ayatana] Global menu in Oneiric Ocelot (11.10)
Date:   Thu, 19 May 2011 13:06:01 -0500
From:   GonzO Rodrigue 
To: anthropornis 



On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:31 AM, Ian Santopietro <mailto:isan...@gmail.com>> wrote:


   The reasoning for the global menu bar isn't just about saving screen
   space. It's also about reduction of UI chrome to provide an
   interface that looks cleaner and simpler.

An example of Form over Function.

   Mouse travel distance *is* irrelevant since mouse acceleration
   allows for great travel distances from short, twitchy movements.

Except that OOTB, no mouse I've ever seen on any Linux system is 
configured with acceleration that works well, much less *that* well. 
 *Especially* not on multi-monitor situations, where the menu to the 
app you're using could well be on a different *screen* - which is the 
biggest reason, in my eyes, that the global menu idea fails.


"It's not that the UI is built wrong, its just that your mouse is 
configured poorly" isn't the right answer.


   This brings to the real flaw with the global menu. As it's hidden by
   default

That's a widespread issue in Unity, IMO.  Probably my biggest gripe with 
it: I want to use my computer, not play a game of hide-and-seek.  I hate 
everything that hides.  Don't hide my UI elements from me.  Global 
menubar is the biggest offender, since I can disable Launcher hiding.


Also, although I think the mock-ups are well-done, I disagree with the 
idea that there should be a hide/reveal button for the menus.  I DO want 
non-maximzed windows to have the menus attached to them, but I don't 
want to click twice, in two different places, to do something that used 
to only take one click.


If it were up to me, everything that gets put in the panel space - 
window controls, window title, and pull-down menus - would travel with 
the application.  If maximized, they'd all be in what used to be known 
as the Panel; if un-maximized, they would all *become* the top border of 
the application window (instead of window control buttons, window title, 
and a whole lotta nuthin').  That way, you still get your clean, simple 
UI chrome reduction.


--G
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Re: [Ayatana] The Dash in Onereric Ocelot

[anthropornis]

I like the Dash as is, specifically because it looks different than the 
desktop. It is apparent that it is serving a different function. I am 
trying to imagine how this apparentness will remain when the Dash is 
intentionally less distinct, and more like my Desktop.


The possibility of white text on a white background (even with a darker 
outline on the text) makes me cringe. Maybe it will not affect me since 
I purposely don't use any light colored wallpapers with the Ambiance 
theme, as for now I am unaware of any method to give the panel and the 
desktop different text colors (?).


Hopefully if this turns out to be the bad idea it initially sounds like, 
we will be able to modify or disable this new wash and revert to flat 
darkening, or even a custom Dash background color and text color.



On 08/17/2011 04:11 AM, Niklas Rosenqvist wrote:

I just read on Shuttleworth's blog about the new Dash color:

"Rather than a flat darkening, we’re introducing a wash based on the 
desktop colour. The dash thus adjusts to your preferred palette based 
on your wallpaper. The same principle will drive some of the login 
experience – choosing a user will shift the login screen towards that 
users wallpaper and palette."


Does anyone know how this will work with, e.g., a white wallpaper when 
the Dash has white text?


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[Ayatana] The Login Experience in Oneiric Ocelot

[anthropornis]

I currently use different wallpapers for my desktop and my GDM screen. 
My only complaint with this has been that when I lock the screen (while 
still logged into a session), neither wallpaper shows up behind the 
login dialog, just a black screen.


Will this change with LDM / Oneiric? Can I select one, the other, or 
even a third wallpaper for a locked screen?



On 08/17/2011 04:11 AM, Niklas Rosenqvist wrote:

I just read on Shuttleworth's blog about the new Dash color:

"Rather than a flat darkening, we’re introducing a wash based on the 
desktop colour. The dash thus adjusts to your preferred palette based 
on your wallpaper. The same principle will drive some of the login 
experience – choosing a user will shift the login screen towards that 
users wallpaper and palette."


Does anyone know how this will work with, e.g., a white wallpaper when 
the Dash has white text?


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Re: [Ayatana] The Dash in Onereric Ocelot

[anthropornis]

True, I was not looking at an image, I was trying to imagine based on 
the text in an email. However, in an image that was attached to a 
subsequent reply from Owas Lone, the Dash looks like it's going in the 
right direction, but for my /personal/ tastes, the desktop behind it is 
still too intrusive in that screenshot. If you run multiple Conky 
windows like I do, I'm thinking that would be even more intrusive.


I understand that a certain group of you felt that the Dash looked a 
certain way after awhile. I'm just requesting that you give those 
outside of your group options to make similar decisions, for ourselves, 
on our own machines. Let me keep the current dark coloration if I prefer 
it (or heck, make it bright opaque pink, if I'm into that sort of 
thing). Regardless of what the cool kids like, I can't grok the appeal 
of a transparent Dash anymore than I understand the appeal of a 
transparent terminal.


I'm not assuming these options are not in the cards, just saying that 
some of us would indeed appreciate them :)  No doubt you also get bored 
with a given wallpaper after awhile, and thankfully we have the option 
of /changing/ the wallpaper; same principle.


As far as white wallpapers go, I was partial to the red leaves on a 
foggy day on the Thames that was /included/ in a previous Ubuntu release 
(I forget which release); to me that was borderline white. Then 
sometimes I like to take a smaller transparent image (for example, like 
this ) and center it on an actual white 
"seamless" background. Please don't judge me for using "worrying" white ;)


In the those white/light background cases I don't use the desktop as a 
folder, since (unless I am missing something) I have no control over 
desktop text coloration independent of other text coloration, and I 
generally prefer to keep the Ambiance theme. Decoupling the panel and 
desktop coloration options is something I would have prioritized ahead 
of making the Dash take on a wash, since that issue predates the Unity Dash.



Otto Greenslade wrote:
Hi. Did you look at the image? I don't think you can say it looks like 
your desktop. After living with it for a while, the black-tinted dash 
was felt to be somewhat lifeless and on Unity 2D previously without 
the aid of blurring a bit like a blackboard. This just helps to make 
it appear a little more integrated, more light-weight / less jarring.




Hi. The dash will compensate for very light and very dark
wallpapers, adjusting the wash accordingly (white is
darkened/black is lightened - anyway hopefully nobody actually
uses a white wallpaper, that would be a bit worrying!). When we
tested our current system, it was at least 95% successful on a
very broad spectrum of wallpapers and we have been looking at how
to improve the final 5%.

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Re: [Ayatana] A rather radical Unity design idea with mockups

[anthropornis]

Alternatively, I'd support integrating all the functionality of the 
Oneiric "Device Menu" into the Dash, and just let the user determine 
whether to place the BFB on the right or left (or top or bottom, in a 
world without any dock) end of the panel.


When (if) the Dash reaches its full potential, some other existing 
components will be unneeded.



On 08/21/2011 10:17 PM, Eylem wrote:

Hi everyone,
First of all, I wanna say that I love Unity and I'd like to send a big
KUDOS to all who have contributed to the project.
That said, I have to say that I find the recent change to move the
Ubuntu button to the launcher to be very much against the core of Unity,
as
1) it makes the Dash far less accessible
2) it makes the "Ubuntu" branding far less noticeable
3) it still puts the maximized-windows-close-button too close to the
Ubuntu button (two buttons that do just opposite things)
4) it still keeps the top left corner too cluttered to be ideally usable
or user-friendly (window controls, Ubuntu button, Dash, window title,
global menu)

Now, the removal of the bfb from the top left corner in favor of
maximized window controls was a great idea as it ensures consistency.
Therefore, in order to address the above issues, I'd like to propose
something rather radical. I really do not want to step on any toes and I
hope you can keep an open mind as you read.

With the current design where the Ubuntu button is on the Launcher and
not on the Top Panel, there is no real requirement to keep the Ubuntu
button still on the left corner. So, I say, why not make use of the
bottom left corner?
1) As an initial pro-, most Linux distros and even Windows defaults to
bottom left, therefore it would not be difficult for users to get used
to a Ubuntu button at the bottom left corner.
2) By leaving the window-related controls (buttons, title, menu) and
separating control centers, the desktop would become much easier to use.
OS launcher on the bottom-left, window controls on the top left,
indicators on the top right.

In detail, I propose the following:

1) Place a Ubuntu button at the bottom left corner. Ubuntu button must
be visually different from all other launcher icons.
a) Default behavior: Ubuntu button and Launcher are united (as it is
now), and they "dodge active window".
i) Configurable to: "dodge all windows", "always on top", or
"autohide"
ii) In all modes, mouse pressure on the bottom left corner
reveals the Ubuntu button and the Launcher (see below for more details).
iii) In all modes, dragging an item that can be placed on the
Launcher reveals the Ubuntu button and the Launcher.

b) Configurable to: It's a single button that "dodges active window"
by becoming smaller. In dodge mode, it disappears completely when it
reaches a pre-determine size (say, 24px); it disappears when the window
is maximized.
i) Configurable to: "dodge all windows" (same dodge behavior),
"always on top", or "autohide"
ii) In all modes, mouse pressure on the bottom left corner
reveals the Ubuntu button and the Launcher (see below for more details).
iii) In all modes, dragging an item that can be placed on the
Launcher reveals the Ubuntu button and the Launcher.

2) Place a TrashCan icon on the bottom right corner. It looks just like
other Launcher icons.
a) Default behavior: "Dodge active window" as above.
b) Configurable to: "dodge all windows" (same dodge behavior),
"always on top", or "autohide"
c) In all modes, mouse pressure on the bottom right corner reveals
the TrashCan icon
d) In all modes, dragging an item that can be put in the trash can
reveals the TrashCan icon

3) Hovering the Ubuntu button for a pre-determined length of time
activates (shows) the Launcher.
a) Default behavior: (Launcher-on-left) Launcher appears by coming
out from the top of the Ubuntu button and extends till the top panel on
the left screen edge. With Launcher-on-left,
i) Launcher icons are arranged from bottom to top. As they reach
the top panel, they're folded similar to current design but preferably
with a faded region where it connects to the top panel.
ii) Default behavior: The Launcher is activated on mouse pressure
to the left screen edge.
iii) Configurable to: Show only with Ubuntu button or on drag-
item.

b) Configurable to: (Launcher-at-bottom) Launcher appears by coming
out from the right of the Ubuntu button and extends till the right
screen edge at the bottom of the screen. With Launcher-at-bottom,
i) The Launcher appears perfectly infused with the TrashCan icon,
but the TrashCan icon is not arranged with other icons. As Launcher
icons reach the TrashCan icon, they're folded similar to current design
but preferably with a faded region where it connects to the TrashCan
icon.
ii) Default behavior: The Launcher is activated on mouse pressure
to the bottom screen edge.
   iii) Configurable to: Show only with Ubuntu button or on drag-
it

Re: [Ayatana] Will there be a setting to make the Dash black like in Natty?

[anthropornis]

This would be my preference as well. The black Dash just makes way more 
sense to me. It seems these days Canonical is focusing on ~nothing but~ 
eye candy.



On 08/28/2011 05:49 PM, nick rundy wrote:
I prefer the black Dash instead of Oneiric's new desktop wallpaper 
chameleon coloring.


Any chance there will be a setting that let's users have a black Dash? 
or is the chameleon color unchangeable?



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Re: [Ayatana] Making menus easier to find

[anthropornis]

Jeremy, it's been asked numerous times because it is what users want and 
what Canonical ignores. That ~should~ tell you something.


And yes, this kind of thing is far more visible than whatever else 
Canonical employees and Ubuntu volunteers are working on right now. 
Whatever the merits of everything else, this is the outer packaging. 
That's just the way it is.




On 08/28/2011 09:29 PM, Jeremy Bicha wrote:

On 28 August 2011 21:10, matt  wrote:

I think that for new users having the menus hidden until mouse over by
default is not necessarily a preferential option. Could the menus be
shown by default (window title in the middle), with the option to change
back to the current behaviour?

Also, an option (this time not default) to place the menus in the
title-bar of the application would be nice. For restored windows the
window title would then be right aligned.

This general question has been asked numerous times and the answer has
been WONTFIX. The reason is that window titles can often be very long
and not everyone has a large screen like you do. Personally I have a
1280x800 screen but we also want to support 1024x600 screens.

Try uninstalling indicator-appmenu* if you want traditional always
visible menus.

Jeremy Bicha

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[Ayatana] a Unity panel with more features, while still saving space

[anthropornis]

1) to the immediate right of the existing window maximize button, add 
one more round button that contains an ampersand, for additional window 
control functions (resize, move to workspace, etc) *


2) to the immediate right of #1, add a lozenge-shaped button (perhaps 
blue, to offset the red close window button) that contains the 
application menu in dropdown form **


3) to the immediate right of #2, add a new item to the panel that 
contains only the ~application~ title, still in bolded text, limited to 
n characters (e.g., "Firefox", not "Mozilla Firefox"); this item does 
~not~ expand or contract ***


4) to the immediate right of #3, separate out the actual ~window~ title 
into another panel item, no longer in bolded text; this item expands or 
contracts based on factors such as screen resolution, number of app 
indicators in the panel, etc, or even just user setting of n characters; 
like Chromium tabs, long window titles can be shown as a tooltip on 
hover 


  ... going to the other end of the panel ...

5) give the app indicator area one drawer for things that don't need to 
always be visible (as determined by the user, e.g., clipboard indicator, 
ejecter indicator, caffeine indicator, battery indicator, any future 
"windicators," etc)


6) in the app indicator area, make it ~optional~ to enable a second 
lozenge-shaped menu that contains the old Gnome 2 unified apps / places 
/ system menu; this does not have to be an "indicator" (and thus 
restricted by any limitations on the indicator paradigm), just a 
hard-coded item like the BFB, which can be enabled or disabled by the 
user *


-
footnotes:
-

* this ampersand button replaces right-click functionality on 
[unrestored] window title bars [which is not even present on maximized 
windows]


** the application menu would no longer appear by hovering elsewhere in 
the panel; the application menu ~could~ still appear as a separate menu 
bar in un-maximized windows, if the user so chose, or continue to remain 
as a lozenge button in the window title bar; as an aside, even though 
Unity now forces a Chromium menu in the panel, I am still so trained to 
use the menu icon inside Chromium that I forget about the panel menu, 
and never use it


*** optionally, clicking this application title area could also show 
thumbnails of all open windows for that application (which would ~not~ 
replace thumb-nailing in any future version of the dock, or any future 
"switching" lenses in the Dash); the shortened application title may be 
an additional metadata field the user can set in Alacarte or elsewhere, 
shipping with sane defaults (e.g., Totem instead of Movie Player) and 
corresponding sane defaults for the n character width of the application 
title area


 this application title and window title separation would remain in 
un-maximized windows; optionally, for long window titles, this panel 
area could begin with an expander arrow, which when clicked pops out an 
expanded window title below the panel, if such a visual cue would draw 
more attention that a tooltip


* likewise, the Dash could be enabled or disabled; people who like 
the Dash will use the Dash, people who don't will use this; some people 
like me may use both; if people want it, this could be further 
subdivided into the traditional Gnome 2 menu "bar" but with icons rather 
than text for applications, places and system; it should still be a 
lozenge shaped single item with three inner buttons to make it distinct 
from "indicators", echoing the window control areas


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Re: [Ayatana] Regressions in Unity for 11.10?

[anthropornis]

I'm mostly in agreement with you.

I'd be curious as to hear your feedback on my proposed redesign of the 
top panel (with the Ubuntu button left in its Natty position), which 
would accommodate most everything everyone wants while keeping it all 
discoverable simultaneously (and could have additional keyboard 
shortcuts applied to it):

https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg06419.html
(alas, no mockups, I am graphically-challenged)



On 08/31/2011 05:58 AM, Tommy Bongaerts wrote:

Hi all,

Most of the current big changes in the Unity shell are serious
regressions in my opinion. I think Unity as shipped with 11.04 is much
better. Here are the reasons why:

It has the 'Ubuntu botton' integrated in the top panel. I thought that
this was a very good idea, because it is in a way the 'window' into the
system. With the 'Ubuntu button' inside the launcher, there no longer
is a clear distinction. I also think it looks more pleasing to the
eye, as it makes the launcher look more or less 'locked' into the top
panel.

The dash now has close/minimize/maximize widgets, just like regular
windows. Very bad idea. It is /not/ a regular window, and should not
be treated as such. Using the 'Ubuntu button' (or the 'super' key) to
open/close the Dash made perfect sense

When an application is maximized, the close/minimize/maximize widgets
are hidden by default. To make them appear, the user has to hoover
over the top panel. This means aiming twice: once to make the widgets
appear, and then again to click on the desired widget. Seems very
counterproductive to me.

The same is valid for the global menus by the way, but I never found
this to be problematic myself. Still, it would be a good idea to at
least provide a user setting to keep the global menus displayed by
default.

The application name still gets clipped (with a 'fade out') when the
global menu is displayed. I think that this looks extremely bad. I'd
keep the application name fully displayed at all times, and have the
menu next to that. Okay, this would mean that the position of the menu
is no longer absolute, but that's not a big deal I think.

In relation to the previous item, when the application name stays
displayed at all times, it could be turned into an indicator-like
button, sporting all kinds of 'services' for the current application.
These services could include eg. 'kill application', 'take snapshot',
'move to workspace', 'hide', 'tile left/right'...

It would also be nice if the user had to option not to use 'global'
menus if they want to.

Anyway, I've created a couple of mock-ups to make clear how the panel
ideally would look like in my opinion:

http://www.drumscum.be/var/unity_menu_maximized.png
http://www.drumscum.be/var/unity_menu_windowed.png
http://www.drumscum.be/var/unity_window-menu.png

Please let me know what you think.




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Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10

[anthropornis]

I tend to hit Ctrl+Shift+R in Thunderbird (reply all shortcut), it's 
handy if you're checking multiple Gmail accounts via IMAP through 
Thunderbird.


On 09/26/2011 11:28 AM, Gino Vincenzini wrote:
Ps. That's annoying that the reply address has to be manually changed 
to the mailing list address.



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Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10

[anthropornis]

Force of habit I guess.

On 09/26/2011 04:22 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote:

Den 26. sep. 2011 21:45, skrev anthropornis:
I tend to hit Ctrl+Shift+R in Thunderbird (reply all shortcut), it's 
handy if you're checking multiple Gmail accounts via IMAP through 
Thunderbird.


On 09/26/2011 11:28 AM, Gino Vincenzini wrote:
Ps. That's annoying that the reply address has to be manually 
changed to the mailing list address.



Why don't you use "Reply to list"?

Jo-Erlend Schinstad

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Re: [Ayatana] RFC: How to handle wine apps in Unity?

[anthropornis]

I'm not crazy about the idea of separating Wine apps into their own 
lens. I just want to be able to hit Super and start typing, regardless 
of the ~type~ of app, rather than have to select different types of 
lenses for different types of apps. There are filters for that, if I 
really want to go to that much trouble.


From my point of view, an app is an app; the behind the scenes details 
don't really matter to me, and are just a problem to solve so that the 
same UI yields the same results for any type of app.


Hopefully I am not the only one who feels this way.


On 10/04/2011 10:10 AM, Ian Santopietro wrote:
It's just like applications in Ubuntu. The .exe is an executable that 
gets linked to, then when you click the link, the application runs. 
The problem is that the applications also create .exe files for all of 
their uninstallers, and many create one for a "Repair" function, and 
all of these also get linked into the start menu. So it's not nearly 
as simple as one might think to sort out which ones are the 
applications and which ones are the support binaries.


On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 13:24, Carl Ansell > wrote:


-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Don't Windows applications run by accessing the .exe file created
during the install?

Would it be possible to tell Unity to only search for .exe files
installed under the Wine directory?

This would remove the issue of finding other files such as text readme
files that clutter up the search.

On 03/10/11 17:29, Ian Santopietro wrote:
> One could argue that the current system looks bad in Gnome 2 as
> well, like it does on "that other OS!"
>
> In all seriousness, I think a Wine lens is definitely the way to
> go. The new APIs in 11.10 should make it relatively easy to get a
> scope and lens up and running.
>
> On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 02:43, Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen
> mailto:mikkel.kamst...@canonical.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am thinking through bug
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/__unity-lens-applications/+bug/__753276
> 
> "Currently no way to find wine apps in dash other than searching
> them from search bar", and I think it would be helpful with some
> good suggestions on the matter.
>
> Disclaimer: I am not gonna be the one who makes the final call on
> the solution, that will be up to the design team. This is just a
> brain storm.
>
> Problem statement: Wine likes to install apps in a deeply nested
> hierarchy of folders (because that's like it works on Windows, I
> assume). Behold this beauty for instance
> https://launchpadlibrarian.__net/71484404/looks-bad-in-__unity.png
> .
> This maps poorly to the Unity UX because the apps lens uses a flat
> system for the filters. Factoring in that the Wine launchers are
> named generically because they are assumed to be read in the
> context of the entire path to their location, we start getting hits
> on "README" and "Uninstall" and suchlikes in Unity. Eeek! ;-) It'll
> be helpful if you read the bug report as well.
>
> Implementing nested browsing of folders in the apps lens is the
> obvious solution, but that also breaks horribly with the current
> user experience. So the question is not "how can we make it like
> it was in Gnome2", but  "how can we get the best UX with the Unity
> UI language?".
>
> Pasting my own (only) idea from the bug: ... to not include Wine
> apps in the apps lens, but write a dedicated lens for Wine apps.
> Each app could then live in its' own category, bundling all
> related launchers in that category. Living in a dedicated lens
> gives much more wiggle room for custom layout and interactions. It
> still doesn't entirely solve the problem in the global dash search
> though, where you'd end up with hits in the odd launchers...
>
> Cheers, Mikkel
>
> _ Mailing list:
> https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
 Post to :
> ayatana@lists.launchpad.net 
>
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
 More help   :
> https://help.launchpad.net/__ListHelp
> 
>
>
>
>
> -- Ian Santopietro
>
> /Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See
> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html/
>
> "Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard m

Re: [Ayatana] Re-design applications to fit with the global menu

[anthropornis]

On the Gnome whiteboard page it lists as a disadvantage of menu buttons 
"Could be difficult to find a consistent location for these in windows".


I disagree. To me the logical placement of an app menu button is between 
the window control buttons (maximize, et al) and the window title, in 
the window title bar (whether that title bar is rendered in the 
traditional manner, or merged to a horizontal panel in Unity).



On 10/04/2011 12:13 PM, Matteo Pagliazzi wrote:
I think that the blobal menu isn't really a problem for most of us for 
a simply reason: most of the apps doesn't really use the menu as an 
important part of the design but they preferr toolbars, button...


Only a few, but important, apps still use the global menu first 
LibreOffice but for it the app menu isn't activate.


Now we should find something to replace or redesign menus, there are 
some mockups here https://live.gnome.org/Design/Whiteboards/Menus, but 
also developers should adapt their apps to the new design.


Ideas?

--
Matteo Pagliazzi - paglias.net 


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Re: [Ayatana] Session management in the dash

[anthropornis]

+1

Completely agree, these are inappropriate in the Dash, extremely 
redundant clutter considering what the power cog does. Moreover, for me 
the utter *simplicity* of Ctrl+Alt+Del still works just fine (at least 
in Natty), I can't imagine what I would gain from altering the Alt+F4 
binding. Does Alt+F4 do something differently in Oneiric other than just 
close that last opened window, and has Ctrl+Alt+Del been altered too?


Incidentally, I was amused yesterday when I was using Linux Mint Debian 
Edition with Xfce and Alt+Backspace still had meaning ;)



On 10/10/2011 04:12 PM, Eylem Koca wrote:
This is all just wrong. Why are the logout, shut down, restart 
controls needed in Dash? Why repeat the same functionality that's 
already there in the power-cog? It just adds clutter, nothing more. If 
a keyboard shortcut is sought after, then the Alt-F4 dialog should be 
improved instead.
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Re: [Ayatana] Session management in the dash

[anthropornis]

Then there should be a way to blacklist things on a per-user basis that 
a user like myself does not want cluttering my Dash when I type "sh" for 
things other than "shutdown".


Moreover, for me it is faster to hit Ctrl+Alt+Del and click the dialog 
than it is to sift through things that begin with "sh" in the Dash on my 
personal system. Conversely, the Ctrl+Alt+Del method does not pose 
clutter with other items beginning with "sh".



On 10/11/2011 04:09 AM, Stefanos A. wrote:
I disagree, these actions (shutdown, restart, etc) *should* be 
available in the dash. This is something I've been waiting for since 
11.04, ten months ago.


Why? Because winkey+"sh"+enter is an order of magnitude faster for me, 
compared to reaching for the mouse, clicking an icon, selecting a menu 
option and clicking a dialog button (all in different locations of the 
screen). I expect most heavy keyboard users will feel the same.


If you don't like typing "shutdown", feel free to not type "shutdown" 
and use the cog instead. That cog option is always there - there's 
absolutely no reason to remove the alternative dash option.



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Re: [Ayatana] Session management in the dash

[anthropornis]

Incidentally, I just upgraded to Oneiric today (and I do mean upgrade, 
not a fresh install), and perhaps I am doing something wrong, but I do 
*not* see a "restart" option in the power cog menu (nor do I see 
gnome-terminal in my Dash, but that's a different story). Furthermore, 
Ctrl+Alt+Del now seems limited to logging me out, rather than giving me 
additional options.  I finally had to try typing "restart" in the Dash, 
which was not intuitive. I was trying "reboot now" in the Alt+F2 dialog 
before that (and that failed, which sent me looking for gnome-terminal, 
to no avail).


I hope these feature regressions are just bugs.

Some people who like the idea of session management in the Dash have 
suggested moving the session items into an actual lens. That buries it 
even deeper in the Dash. The competing suggestion, to hard code it into 
the Dash regardless of which lens is selected, keeps the session items 
less buried, but certainly more cluttered. Whatever the pro-Dash camp 
does, I hope Canonical will restore the traditional methods, fully, as 
an alternative. It would be nice if the power cog menu even had an 
option for restarting Compiz.




On 10/11/2011 04:09 AM, Stefanos A. wrote:
I disagree, these actions (shutdown, restart, etc) *should* be 
available in the dash. This is something I've been waiting for since 
11.04, ten months ago.


Why? Because winkey+"sh"+enter is an order of magnitude faster for me, 
compared to reaching for the mouse, clicking an icon, selecting a menu 
option and clicking a dialog button (all in different locations of the 
screen). I expect most heavy keyboard users will feel the same.


If you don't like typing "shutdown", feel free to not type "shutdown" 
and use the cog instead. That cog option is always there - there's 
absolutely no reason to remove the alternative dash option.


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Re: [Ayatana] Session management in the dash

[anthropornis]

Just a gentle reminder, saving space in the menu bar is not an issue for 
those of us with bigger screens. The more indicators, the better, for my 
use case. So hopefully removal of them will be optional per user.



On 10/12/2011 08:41 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Carl Ansell wrote on 10/10/11 17:12:

A recent update placed logout, shut down and restart controls into
the dash.

I think it would be useful to have these located in the bottom
right corner of the dash rather than in the lens results, as this
would make them accessible when using any lens.

...


I like that idea. That would save those commands from being jumbled up
with other search results -- you wouldn't need to search for them at all.

It would mean we wouldn't need the device menu any more, which would
save space in the menu bar.

Least importantly, it would be more consistent with other OSes, and
therefore easier for people migrating.

- -- 
mpt

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAk6Viw4ACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecqnOgCgoVkAI/1qndXGgMzW/rLMM/or
2AMAn3DYwFlxq5snmpu7IhbxCT3EVv0Q
=KmI6
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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[Ayatana] Dash caching? multiple file managers?

[anthropornis]

I soft-upgraded to Oneiric yesterday, and today I've noticed a couple of 
oddities. I wondered if these are intended or unintended.


Yesterday I had multiple items on my desktop, today only one. But when I 
open the Dash, the "wash" background still looks like I have multiple 
files on the desktop in the background. Is the Dash caching a screenshot 
of the desktop?


Secondly, when I search for "home" in the Dash and click "Home folder" 
it opens Nautilus. However, when I click the Trash icon on the dock, it 
opens PCManFM. I've never installed LXDE. Is the Trash icon hard-coded 
to use PCManFM?


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Re: [Ayatana] Dash caching? multiple file managers?

[anthropornis]

It's just weird, because I've never (wittingly) installed PCManFM. In 
the 6 months I used Natty, the only remotely similar thing I installed 
was OpenBox. After the 2 hour upgrade yesterday, the only remotely 
similar thing I installed was Gnome Shell.


I ran apt-cache rdepends pcmanfm and the handful of things returned are 
not things I have ever installed.



On 10/13/2011 10:59 PM, Alexander Lancey wrote:
It sounds like PCManFM is the default file manager. The home folder 
launcher manually runs Nautilus, but I'm pretty sure the trash runs 
xdg-open trash:///


On Thu, 2011-10-13 at 21:25 -0400, anthropornis wrote:

I soft-upgraded to Oneiric yesterday, and today I've noticed a couple of
oddities. I wondered if these are intended or unintended.

Yesterday I had multiple items on my desktop, today only one. But when I
open the Dash, the "wash" background still looks like I have multiple
files on the desktop in the background. Is the Dash caching a screenshot
of the desktop?

Secondly, when I search for "home" in the Dash and click "Home folder"
it opens Nautilus. However, when I click the Trash icon on the dock, it
opens PCManFM. I've never installed LXDE. Is the Trash icon hard-coded
to use PCManFM?
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Re: [Ayatana] New design: Opening applications and documents automatically at login

[anthropornis]

I tend to give every app its own workspace (I generally use a 3x3 or 4x4 
matrix). The top row for example may only be one genre of apps.


It would interesting to see if these startup apps could launch, and 
stick themselves into a predefined workspace, saving me the manual 
positioning.




On 10/20/2011 11:34 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi folks

For some people, it is useful to open particular applications or
documents every time they log in.

(For example, every day when I log in at work, I launch XChat,
Firefox, and a time sheet text document.)


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[Ayatana] option to disable Unity launcher

[anthropornis]

For me personally, a garden variety dock on the bottom of my screen is 
still more useful than the Unity launcher. In this case, I am using 
Docky, and in the screenshot below, you can see both the launcher and 
Docky on my desktop, and it just looks more cluttered than it needs to:


http://i.imgur.com/vUQcW.jpg

Will Canonical ever permit the user to disable the launcher so that he 
or she can use the dock of their choice (or something else altogether)?


I don't follow this list consistently, so I am not clear on this, is it 
a matter of the devs haven't gotten around to it yet, or is the design 
team outright opposed to doing it?


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Re: [Ayatana] option to disable Unity launcher

[anthropornis]

I'm not sure I understand your reply, I cannot tell if you are being 
facetious or what


On 11/01/2011 04:44 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote:

Den 01. nov. 2011 21:26, skrev anthropornis:


Will Canonical ever permit the user to disable the launcher so that 
he or she can use the dock of their choice (or something else 
altogether)?


Canonical has chosen to permit 100% configurability. Is that awesome, 
or what?


Jo-Erlend Schinstad


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Re: [Ayatana] buttons in file browser

[anthropornis]

Nautilus Elementary had it right in this department; since it is no 
longer being maintained, I hope Marlin will be an option soon, and will 
retain all that was good about Nautilus Elementary, and maybe gain some 
bulk-rename functionality from Thunar.


While I love keyboard shortcuts, some people assume users always have 
two hands on the keyboard. Frankly, doing Ctrl+2 all with my left hand 
is a bit awkward, for me.



On 11/01/2011 07:48 PM, James Jenner wrote:




On 2 November 2011 01:23, Jo-Erlend Schinstad 
mailto:joerlend.schins...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:


Den 01. nov. 2011 01:24, skrev James Jenner:

Hi All,

I just noticed last night that the tool bar for the file
browser under unity (I presume this is nautilus) has gone for
11.10. Obviously this is intentional but does anyone know why?

That is not Unity. That is Gnome 3. Unity is used to launch and
navigate between applications. Nautilus is part of Gnome. This is
an upstream change to simplify the user interface.


Ahh, thanks Jo-Erland for the clarification. I wasn't sure where 
Natuilus lived.


I'll have to figure out where to make the appropriate feedback then as 
while it's simplified, IMHO it's simplified too far. Those toolbar 
options were very handy.


Cheers,

James


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Re: [Ayatana] buttons in file browser

[anthropornis]

Or I could click one button one time. That is the essence of simplicity.

Hopefully this will return in the future, whether from upstream, a 
Nautilus extension, a Canonical patch, or a Canonical selection of a 
different file manager as default.



On 11/01/2011 09:39 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote:

Den 02. nov. 2011 02:30, skrev anthropornis:
Nautilus Elementary had it right in this department; since it is no 
longer being maintained, I hope Marlin will be an option soon, and 
will retain all that was good about Nautilus Elementary, and maybe 
gain some bulk-rename functionality from Thunar.


While I love keyboard shortcuts, some people assume users always have 
two hands on the keyboard. Frankly, doing Ctrl+2 all with my left 
hand is a bit awkward, for me.


You don't have to use ctrl+2. You can use the menus with the mouse, if 
you want to, or you can press F10, right arrow twice, up arrow twice 
and enter.


Jo-Erlend Schinstad
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Re: [Ayatana] buttons in file browser

[anthropornis]

In Nautilus Elementary I had 3 buttons to switch views (icon, list, 
compact). It was on the same row as the location (text or breadcrumb) 
and was not cluttered for me at all.


Cluttered is A) in the eye of the beholder B) dependent on screen 
resolution and C) typically something one can toggle on and off.


But what you suggest is actually interesting -- a customizable tool bar, 
just like in LibreOffice, Firefox, and other mainstream applications. Oh 
my, I could potentially have 20 different buttons I could add to my own 
toolbar, or just select a subset of, e.g., 3 of those, to put on my 
personalized tool bar. That almost sounds  like something that has 
been around for years.


I understand that you do not see a problem with the current "solution." 
That is typically how problems begin, one user thinks his way should be 
the way for everyone, and just excuse this penchant by throwing out that 
old bromide "oh, you can't please everyone". That is true, but it's one 
thing to actually try, and another to just say "do it my way". This is 
why I don't consistently follow this mailing list, because there is no 
shortage of that type of thinking present here. Other users? What other 
users?


The thing is, if people other than yourself have things they can toggle 
on/off, or re-arrange, at will, it does not even have to affect you, or 
your own views on clutter. We can ~all~ be closer to happy that way. 
User interface precedents do exist in this area. I never understand why 
that is so offensive to some people.


In any event, hopefully the jump to GTK3 was the last major breakage and 
features will return or be added, in one file manager or another.


PS for the time being I am using GPRename instead of Purrr, but thanks 
for the suggestion (that reply didn't make it to the list).




On 11/01/2011 11:34 PM, Chow Loong Jin wrote:

On 02/11/2011 11:14, anthropornis wrote:

Or I could click one button one time. That is the essence of simplicity.

You could say that for every commonly used feature there is.

I don't frequently change views, for example, but I frequently change between
showing hidden files and not. I also create new folders much more frequently
than I switch views, and the same can be said about changing the arrangement of
items.

By your logic, we would have three new buttons for each view, a toggle "Show
hidden files" button, perhaps a menu for changing the sorting order of items and
a create new folder button in the toolbar, or elsewhere not in the menu.

The result would be a beautifully cluttered interface. You can't have
everything, and you can't fully please everyone.

Incidentally, all of the mentioned actions, except changing sorting order, have
keyboard shortcuts for them, which are clearly indicated beside their entries in
the menu. I really don't see a problem with the current solution.


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Re: [Ayatana] buttons in file browser

[anthropornis]

Agreed.

Maybe the evolution of Nautilus, and Gnome in general, will move to 
completely terminal based everything, much less cluttered that way, no 
ugly GUI's tarnishing our screens.


Maybe we need a file manager based on Emacs!


On 11/02/2011 12:25 AM, James Jenner wrote:
And you haven't addressed the issue for accessibility. Not everyone is 
adapt at multi-key pressing like you are. Do we just ignore people who 
have poor dexterity so there can be an 'uncluttered' interface (which 
is a subjective measure, I would have argued that the previous 
interface was 'uncluttered').


And please don't use reductio ad absurdum, I could equally say that 
based on your logic all toolbars from all applications should 
be removed because it will be 'uncluttered'. I would presume that 
would be equally absurd as your claim that based on our logic all 
options should be on a toolbar.




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Re: [Ayatana] option to disable Unity launcher

[anthropornis]

I suspected that. Naturally, at least 98% of Canonical's new target 
demographic(s) is quite capable of editing the source.


Certainly, if I had the know-how, I could just go create my own OS from 
scratch, build my own mobo from scratch, etc. This is Ubuntu, not Arch, 
and yes, everyone knows they can do everything themselves, whether it's 
their operating system, or changing their oil.


In other words,  Jo-Erlend Schinstad had nothing constructive to add. 
Why do people post such unhelpful things so routinely on this list? It 
seems to be perhaps one quarter (yes, that is wild guess made up on the 
spot) of all replies on any thread on this list, usually by the same 
individuals over and over. If you have nothing helpful to say, why 
bother posting? Snarkiness doesn't fix anything (certainly not bug #1) 
and just makes it a chore to follow this mailing list, particularly when 
the same people serially state "install something else" as if that never 
occurred to people critiquing their pet pieces of software. It gets 
tiresome after awhile.



On 11/02/2011 12:43 AM, Ian Santopietro wrote:


He's being quite facetious. He means you are free to edit the source 
code and make Unity be gave exactly the way you want.


On Nov 1, 2011 6:11 PM, "Omar B." <mailto:estela...@hotmail.com>> wrote:



i dont understand his reply either

but i think this would be a better source:

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/ubuntu-desktop-designers-clarify-on-configurability


> Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 17:47:32 -0400
> From: anthropor...@gmail.com <mailto:anthropor...@gmail.com>
> To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net <mailto:ayatana@lists.launchpad.net>
> Subject: Re: [Ayatana] option to disable Unity launcher
>
> I'm not sure I understand your reply, I cannot tell if you are being
> facetious or what
>
> On 11/01/2011 04:44 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote:
> > Den 01. nov. 2011 21:26, skrev anthropornis:
> >>
> >> Will Canonical ever permit the user to disable the launcher
so that
> >> he or she can use the dock of their choice (or something else
> >> altogether)?
> >
> > Canonical has chosen to permit 100% configurability. Is that
awesome,
> > or what?
> >
> > Jo-Erlend Schinstad
>
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Re: [Ayatana] buttons in file browser

[anthropornis]

On 11/02/2011 12:43 AM, Chow Loong Jin wrote:

Upstream, I guess, but wouldn't you agree it looks much cleaner this way?


It would be even cleaner without those pesky files listed in the middle.


Hence, if we're going to add the change-view buttons onto the toolbar, then
please add my show hidden files button, and every $button that everyone else
uses most frequently as well to be fair to everyone.


You've honestly never used a piece of software where you could 
specifically select, from a set, the specific buttons which you, 
personally, wanted on a tool bar?


In any event, if functionality will be returning / added in the future, 
that is great. In the meantime, if you are defending the LOSS of 
functionality for the sake of defending something, what's the point? 
Gnome is too busy removing stuff to notice such chivalry. Always have 
been, always will be. I mean, it's Gnome. It's what they do.


I know, I know, "install something else" or "hack it yourself with Emacs".


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Re: [Ayatana] buttons in file browser

[anthropornis]

On 11/02/2011 01:09 AM, Chow Loong Jin wrote:

In Nautilus Elementary I had 3 buttons to switch views (icon, list, compact). It
was on the same row as the location (text or breadcrumb) and was not cluttered
for me at all.
Strange. In my Nautilus Elementary, the buttons were on the status bar beside
the zoom slider. But yes, I agree it wasn't cluttered. It looked pretty nice
actually.


It may have been that way for me by default, I can't remember. But I 
moved things around, and it was just nice to be able to actually do that.


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Re: [Ayatana] Serious issues

[anthropornis]

Canonical has guaranteed Unity to be 100% issue-free. What you have 
perceived as an issue is actually explained here: 
file:///usr/share/doc/unity/copyright


How awesome is that?


On 11/02/2011 08:50 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote:
We have really serious issues with Unity. For instance, look at the 
attached screenshot.


Jo-Erlend Schinstad


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Re: [Ayatana] Serious issues

[anthropornis]

I never commanded anyone to do anything.

However, both of us did post useless, unhelpful responses, which just 
pollute a mailing list.





On 11/04/2011 08:52 AM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote:

Den 03. nov. 2011 03:25, skrev anthropornis:
Canonical has guaranteed Unity to be 100% issue-free. What you have 
perceived as an issue is actually explained here: 
file:///usr/share/doc/unity/copyright


How awesome is that?
Commanding other people to spend their money on a feature only you 
want, is rude. Get over it. I simply pointed out that Canonical has 
not, as you untruthfully claimed, denied you the right to configure 
things the way you want it.


I, however, were pointing out a bug so that we can contribute to 
fixing it. I were not commanding anyone to create a feature I want. I 
pointed out that the software does not function as intended by the 
authors. Do you understand the difference? Obviously, running 
applications are not intended to become invisible and unusable.


Jo-Erlend Schinstad

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Re: [Ayatana] What about the Dash on Oneiric Ocelot ?

[Anthropornis Nordenskjoldi]

I *strongly* support your mockup, or something similar.  At a minimum I'd
appreciate the ability to separate out what the system determines is "*
frequent*" and what I explicitly "*pin*". Moreover, as for "frequent" apps,
places, or files, Zeitgeist also seems to have a short memory span (maybe a
week?).

Another core feature I would to see in Unity is the fundamental ability to *
toggle* between a desktop/laptop *mode*, and a tablet/netbook *mode*. I will
never ever use the latter or any touch-oriented features, so I don't need
huge icons anywhere in the interface. Really, I don't even need any
touch-oriented stuff even loaded into memory at boot, so if this could be
akin to recompiling your kernel more than toggling between different things
always resident in memory, that'd be great.

Really, if I could just assign every app a short nickname in the Main Menu
editor, I don't need to see the Icon and the name, so I'd like to be able to
customize the *desktop/laptop mode* to restore as much screen real estate as
possible, by choosing to see either icons, nicknames (not lengthy full
names), or both, just as  toolbars in many apps currently do.

(To restore some screen real estate I'm currently using a compact Nautilus
drop-down indicator for places and the Cardapio menu for "pinned" apps.
Prior to that I'd hacked a static Quicklist to have my pinned apps, with the
least possible amount of screen real estate used for each text-only entry in
the list. I just need something my pointer can hit, which doesn't require
much space at all.)

Another point of contention: if I could get all of the Springboard
functionality into the Dash AND disable the Springboard altogether, that
would be perfect. I don't use the apps and places lenses, I don't pin
launchers to this dock, and the current *window*-switching functionality of
launchers is not intuitive. The window (not app or workspace) switching
capability of both the Gnome 2 Talika applet (you had to get this through a
PPA) and Windows 7 is more intuitive to me, but I suppose hovering over a
launcher to pop out a mini-window showing all current windows of a given app
clashes with Quicklists? In any event, I'd rather have all switching stuff
(windows, apps, and workspaces) moved to separate pages of the Dash, docks
are just clutter.

Alas, before that happens, it would be nice if bug
#807141was
fixed, since Ubuntu now relies so heavily on Unity and Compiz.
Currently
my Dash intermittenly stacks behind other windows, making it useless. The
Compiz maintainer states that stacking issues are near impossible to triage.
If that is the case, it's unfortunate that Canonical hitched their wagon so
readily to such a window manager. If you can't see a core piece of the user
interface, that is pretty much a showstopper, especially in an LTS release.

I'd love for the Dash to A) be the center of attention, B) be configurable
and C) work without issue though, as I think it's a good paradigm in general
if its design potential is fully realized and the bugs are resolved.



On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Josh Strawbridge  wrote:

> i had a lot of the same thoughts a few weeks ago and i drew up a mock up of
> what i thought dash should be.
>
> dash is very keyboard friendly but when I'm using a mouse (or tablet
> actually) it's not a very pleasant experience. i only use the first page of
> the dash to get to the second page.
>
> this is what i'd like to see on the first click of the dash button.
>
> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-b0nFEjg8IUU/TjfzbXjLQsI/AE4/9WjTUSCdq2A/s912/Dash1.png
>
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