Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle

[Tim Hardy]

Daniel is correct, and the notion that one could coordinate and license an 80 
MHz channel pair with a 40 MHz pair separated by 60 MHz to somehow block out a 
120 MHz chunk to then operate a 112 MHz bandwidth ETSI configuration is 
patently false. Any vendor (integrator, radio OEM or coordinator) that is 
“pushing” this concept to licensees needs to cease.  A potential FCC 
Enforcement action would be against the operator, not the vendor that may have 
promoted this illicit scheme, so buyer beware.

Just to reiterate the primary concern - The maximum allowable bandwidth for any 
single transmit frequency in the 11 or 18 GHz bands in the US is 80 MHz.  Any 
use of larger bandwidths would require at least two significant rule waiver 
requests with each FCC application. A recent review of FCC licensed records 
found no (zero) frequencies with bandwidths greater than 80 MHz, therefore, 
anyone using 112 MHz bandwidth (as discussed by at least one vendor in this 
thread) would be doing so at their own peril.


> On Jun 10, 2020, at 12:57 PM, Peter Kranz via AF  wrote:
> 
> Yes you can always couple two discrete radios together with a coupler to 
> achieve a 4+0, or 4 together for a 8+0 😊
> My comparison is for all in one units from Bridgewave and Aviat.
>  
> Peter Kranz
> www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com 
>  
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Daniel White
> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 8:10 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  >
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle
>  
> I would be surprised if any dual-core radio didn't support 4+0... although it 
> may not aggregate the data streams.  You will need to use a coupler, which 
> will give you 3.5dB of loss per side (or 7dB of total link budget).
> 
> To make what Tim wrote easier to explain (at least in my opinion), is you 
> license emission designators not channel widths.  For instance, a 56MHz wide 
> channel doesn't use 60MHz... it uses 56MHz.  The channel plan is basically a 
> recommendation.
> 
> So dual-carrier requires two distinct, carriers to be transmitted no one big 
> 112MHz wide carrier. So you can transmit an 80MHz carrier and a 40MHz carrier 
> (or even a 32MHz carrier) but you cannot transmit a 112MHz carrier without 
> the waivers Tim mentioned.
>  
> 
> Daniel White
> Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
> phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
> direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
> Peter Kranz via AF wrote on 6/9/20 10:50:
> 
>> Welp.. more caveats have arisen as I’ve delved deeper..
>>  
>>  
>> Some more details on the delta between the Aviat WTM4200 WTM4100 (A2C not 
>> supported in WTM4200) and Navigator Single&Dual sub-carrier support.. TL;DR 
>> Which one you want to use to handle sub-carriers kinda depends on what 
>> license you can get.
>>  
>> Basically, both support extended channels but they do it differently:
>> Aviat allows the sub-channels to be non-adjacent, and even different 
>> bandwidths, Navigator requires that they be adjacent.
>> Each requires the sub-channel to be in the same polarity 
>> Aviat A2C has a ~5db power hit in A2C but this power hit goes away if the 
>> Aviat disables A2C due to conditions, Navigator has a lower 1db power hit in 
>> ACM
>> Since A2C is not supported in the WTM4200, you really only get 2+0 
>> operation.. so I’d prefer to just use a WTM4200 to get 2+0 operation without 
>> the power constraints.
>> The Navigator Dual allows 4+0 operation in the Dual model, making it 
>> possible to get 4+0 operation in a single double header radio (double the 
>> capacity of the WTM4200)
>>  
>> Navigator power table: (Subtract 1 from these numbers when in ACM mode 
>> according to vendor)
>> 
>>  
>> Aviat power table without A2C:
>>  
>> 
>> Aviat power table with A2C running:
>> 
>>  
>> Peter Kranz
>> www.UnwiredLtd.com 
>> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
>> Mobile: 510-207-
>> pkr...@unwiredltd.com 
>>  
>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On 
>> Behalf Of Jason McKemie
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2020 8:27 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > >
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave 11GHz
>>  
>> Does anyone have any experience with the two of these (Aviat WTM4200 vs 
>> Navigator Dual)?  I'm having a hard time deciding.
>>  
>> -Jason
>> 
>> 
>  
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle

[Mike Hammett]

Recommendations for changing that rule?



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





- Original Message -
From: "Tim Hardy" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 6:49:30 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle


Daniel is correct, and the notion that one could coordinate and license an 80 
MHz channel pair with a 40 MHz pair separated by 60 MHz to somehow block out a 
120 MHz chunk to then operate a 112 MHz bandwidth ETSI configuration is 
patently false. Any vendor (integrator, radio OEM or coordinator) that is 
“pushing” this concept to licensees needs to cease. A potential FCC Enforcement 
action would be against the operator, not the vendor that may have promoted 
this illicit scheme, so buyer beware. 


Just to reiterate the primary concern - The maximum allowable bandwidth for any 
single transmit frequency in the 11 or 18 GHz bands in the US is 80 MHz. Any 
use of larger bandwidths would require at least two significant rule waiver 
requests with each FCC application. A recent review of FCC licensed records 
found no (zero) frequencies with bandwidths greater than 80 MHz, therefore, 
anyone using 112 MHz bandwidth (as discussed by at least one vendor in this 
thread) would be doing so at their own peril. 







On Jun 10, 2020, at 12:57 PM, Peter Kranz via AF < af@af.afmug.com > wrote: 



Yes you can always couple two discrete radios together with a coupler to 
achieve a 4+0, or 4 together for a 8+0 😊 
My comparison is for all in one units from Bridgewave and Aviat. 


Peter Kranz 
www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 
Mobile: 510-207- 
pkr...@unwiredltd.com 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Daniel White 
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 8:10 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle 


I would be surprised if any dual-core radio didn't support 4+0... although it 
may not aggregate the data streams. You will need to use a coupler, which will 
give you 3.5dB of loss per side (or 7dB of total link budget). 

To make what Tim wrote easier to explain (at least in my opinion), is you 
license emission designators not channel widths. For instance, a 56MHz wide 
channel doesn't use 60MHz... it uses 56MHz. The channel plan is basically a 
recommendation. 

So dual-carrier requires two distinct, carriers to be transmitted no one big 
112MHz wide carrier. So you can transmit an 80MHz carrier and a 40MHz carrier 
(or even a 32MHz carrier) but you cannot transmit a 112MHz carrier without the 
waivers Tim mentioned. 


photograph  
Daniel White 
Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations 

phone: +1 (702) 470-2770 
direct: +1 (702) 470-2766 

Peter Kranz via AF wrote on 6/9/20 10:50: 




Welp.. more caveats have arisen as I’ve delved deeper.. 



Some more details on the delta between the Aviat WTM4200 WTM4100 (A2C not 
supported in WTM4200) and Navigator Single& Dual sub-carrier support.. TL;DR 
Which one you want to use to handle sub-carriers kinda depends on what license 
you can get. 

Basically, both support extended channels but they do it differently: 

* Aviat allows the sub-channels to be non-adjacent, and even different 
bandwidths , Navigator requires that they be adjacent. 
* Each requires the sub-channel to be in the same polarity 
* Aviat A2C has a ~5db power hit in A2C but this power hit goes away if the 
Aviat disables A2C due to conditions, Navigator has a lower 1db power hit in 
ACM 
* Since A2C is not supported in the WTM4200, you really only get 2+0 
operation.. so I’d prefer to just use a WTM4200 to get 2+0 operation without 
the power constraints. 
* The Navigator Dual allows 4+0 operation in the Dual model, making it 
possible to get 4+0 operation in a single double header radio (double the 
capacity of the WTM4200) 


Navigator power table: (Subtract 1 from these numbers when in ACM mode 
according to vendor) 
 

Aviat power table without A2C: 

 
Aviat power table with A2C running: 
 

Peter Kranz 
www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 
Mobile: 510-207- 
pkr...@unwiredltd.com 


From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Jason McKemie 
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2020 8:27 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < Af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave 11GHz 


Does anyone have any experience with the two of these (Aviat WTM4200 vs 
Navigator Dual)? I'm having a hard time deciding. 



-Jason 



-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik

[Steven Kenney]

Nobody make a product anymore and sells it. Its all subscription based. Its 
royally pissing me off too. I mean even in app games if you wanna remove ads 
you could just buy the game. NOW you need to pay $10 to remove ads for A MONTH 
or a period of time. 

Anyhoo.. as far as CHR - I've messed around with it on Amazon and it does work. 
Quite cool actually but I've found after crunching the numbers over the 
years its still way cheaper running your own hardware in your own NOC than in 
the cloud. I've had servers run for 9 years giving me way more ROI than any 
monthly subscription could. If properly maintained. Not to mention you are 
taking your own destiny into your own hands instead of placing them in a 3rd 
party's possession. 

Now if you don't have the staff or time to manage things then yeah you will 
need to pay someone else for their expertise in putting it all together. 

I think a hybrid solution is the overall best solution. The best of both 
worlds. 

-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
http://www.wavedirect.net 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 


From: "Seth Mattinen"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 12:53:22 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik 

On 6/10/20 6:01 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> Oh, for sure. Virtualized routers are where the industry is going, whether 
> it's a VM running on your compute infrastructure or on your switch\router. 


No thanks, because here comes the annual subscriptions. Cisco already 
went that way with CSR 1000V. Maybe I'm pessimistic, but the majority of 
the industry is sure to go that way too. At least the first sale 
doctrine applies to hardware. Tired of fucking subscriptions for every 
damn thing. 

-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle

[Ken Hohhof]

I suspect you have this backward.  It's not so much a rule against using an 
ETSI configuration, as the lack of that configuration in the FCC rules.  It 
would have to be added to Title 47, and manufacturers would have to (self) 
certify their equipment to the new rule.

What convincing arguments would you put forward for a rules change?  It seems 
more like I want to buy European equipment designed for ETSI rules and use it 
here.  Perhaps not the best political climate for such an appeal.  Do you want 
Freedom Fries with that?


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 8:10 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle

Recommendations for changing that rule?



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





- Original Message -
From: "Tim Hardy" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 6:49:30 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle


Daniel is correct, and the notion that one could coordinate and license an 80 
MHz channel pair with a 40 MHz pair separated by 60 MHz to somehow block out a 
120 MHz chunk to then operate a 112 MHz bandwidth ETSI configuration is 
patently false. Any vendor (integrator, radio OEM or coordinator) that is 
“pushing” this concept to licensees needs to cease. A potential FCC Enforcement 
action would be against the operator, not the vendor that may have promoted 
this illicit scheme, so buyer beware. 


Just to reiterate the primary concern - The maximum allowable bandwidth for any 
single transmit frequency in the 11 or 18 GHz bands in the US is 80 MHz. Any 
use of larger bandwidths would require at least two significant rule waiver 
requests with each FCC application. A recent review of FCC licensed records 
found no (zero) frequencies with bandwidths greater than 80 MHz, therefore, 
anyone using 112 MHz bandwidth (as discussed by at least one vendor in this 
thread) would be doing so at their own peril. 







On Jun 10, 2020, at 12:57 PM, Peter Kranz via AF < af@af.afmug.com > wrote: 



Yes you can always couple two discrete radios together with a coupler to 
achieve a 4+0, or 4 together for a 8+0 😊 
My comparison is for all in one units from Bridgewave and Aviat. 


Peter Kranz 
www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 
Mobile: 510-207- 
pkr...@unwiredltd.com 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Daniel White 
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 8:10 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle 


I would be surprised if any dual-core radio didn't support 4+0... although it 
may not aggregate the data streams. You will need to use a coupler, which will 
give you 3.5dB of loss per side (or 7dB of total link budget). 

To make what Tim wrote easier to explain (at least in my opinion), is you 
license emission designators not channel widths. For instance, a 56MHz wide 
channel doesn't use 60MHz... it uses 56MHz. The channel plan is basically a 
recommendation. 

So dual-carrier requires two distinct, carriers to be transmitted no one big 
112MHz wide carrier. So you can transmit an 80MHz carrier and a 40MHz carrier 
(or even a 32MHz carrier) but you cannot transmit a 112MHz carrier without the 
waivers Tim mentioned. 


photograph  
Daniel White 
Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations 

phone: +1 (702) 470-2770 
direct: +1 (702) 470-2766 

Peter Kranz via AF wrote on 6/9/20 10:50: 




Welp.. more caveats have arisen as I’ve delved deeper.. 



Some more details on the delta between the Aviat WTM4200 WTM4100 (A2C not 
supported in WTM4200) and Navigator Single& Dual sub-carrier support.. TL;DR 
Which one you want to use to handle sub-carriers kinda depends on what license 
you can get. 

Basically, both support extended channels but they do it differently: 

* Aviat allows the sub-channels to be non-adjacent, and even different 
bandwidths , Navigator requires that they be adjacent. 
* Each requires the sub-channel to be in the same polarity 
* Aviat A2C has a ~5db power hit in A2C but this power hit goes away if the 
Aviat disables A2C due to conditions, Navigator has a lower 1db power hit in 
ACM 
* Since A2C is not supported in the WTM4200, you really only get 2+0 
operation.. so I’d prefer to just use a WTM4200 to get 2+0 operation without 
the power constraints. 
* The Navigator Dual allows 4+0 operation in the Dual model, making it 
possible to get 4+0 operation in a single double header radio (double the 
capacity of the WTM4200) 


Navigator power table: (Subtract 1 from these numbers when in ACM mode 
according to vendor) 
 

Aviat power table without A2C: 

 
Aviat power table with A2C running: 
 

Peter Kranz 
www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 
Mobile: 510-207- 
pkr...@unwiredltd.com 


From: AF

Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle

[Mike Hammett]

Right, I didn't think it was a rule against anything, just rules that state 
what is allowed and it's not on the list.

The simple reason for wanting the rule change is that I need to move more bits 
at a lower cost and complexity. Let me use a single carrier across an 80+40 
channel. That same basic argument has been successful at the FCC many times. I 
do admit that the process isn't simple or even guaranteed success.

It's simple economics. I need more bits. I can buy two radios to get 80 + 40, 
or I can buy a single ETSI-friendly radio that already does 112 MHz.





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





- Original Message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 9:00:08 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle

I suspect you have this backward.  It's not so much a rule against using an 
ETSI configuration, as the lack of that configuration in the FCC rules.  It 
would have to be added to Title 47, and manufacturers would have to (self) 
certify their equipment to the new rule.

What convincing arguments would you put forward for a rules change?  It seems 
more like I want to buy European equipment designed for ETSI rules and use it 
here.  Perhaps not the best political climate for such an appeal.  Do you want 
Freedom Fries with that?


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 8:10 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle

Recommendations for changing that rule?



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





- Original Message -
From: "Tim Hardy" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 6:49:30 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle


Daniel is correct, and the notion that one could coordinate and license an 80 
MHz channel pair with a 40 MHz pair separated by 60 MHz to somehow block out a 
120 MHz chunk to then operate a 112 MHz bandwidth ETSI configuration is 
patently false. Any vendor (integrator, radio OEM or coordinator) that is 
“pushing” this concept to licensees needs to cease. A potential FCC Enforcement 
action would be against the operator, not the vendor that may have promoted 
this illicit scheme, so buyer beware. 


Just to reiterate the primary concern - The maximum allowable bandwidth for any 
single transmit frequency in the 11 or 18 GHz bands in the US is 80 MHz. Any 
use of larger bandwidths would require at least two significant rule waiver 
requests with each FCC application. A recent review of FCC licensed records 
found no (zero) frequencies with bandwidths greater than 80 MHz, therefore, 
anyone using 112 MHz bandwidth (as discussed by at least one vendor in this 
thread) would be doing so at their own peril. 







On Jun 10, 2020, at 12:57 PM, Peter Kranz via AF < af@af.afmug.com > wrote: 



Yes you can always couple two discrete radios together with a coupler to 
achieve a 4+0, or 4 together for a 8+0 😊 
My comparison is for all in one units from Bridgewave and Aviat. 


Peter Kranz 
www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 
Mobile: 510-207- 
pkr...@unwiredltd.com 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Daniel White 
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 8:10 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle 


I would be surprised if any dual-core radio didn't support 4+0... although it 
may not aggregate the data streams. You will need to use a coupler, which will 
give you 3.5dB of loss per side (or 7dB of total link budget). 

To make what Tim wrote easier to explain (at least in my opinion), is you 
license emission designators not channel widths. For instance, a 56MHz wide 
channel doesn't use 60MHz... it uses 56MHz. The channel plan is basically a 
recommendation. 

So dual-carrier requires two distinct, carriers to be transmitted no one big 
112MHz wide carrier. So you can transmit an 80MHz carrier and a 40MHz carrier 
(or even a 32MHz carrier) but you cannot transmit a 112MHz carrier without the 
waivers Tim mentioned. 


photograph  
Daniel White 
Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations 

phone: +1 (702) 470-2770 
direct: +1 (702) 470-2766 

Peter Kranz via AF wrote on 6/9/20 10:50: 




Welp.. more caveats have arisen as I’ve delved deeper.. 



Some more details on the delta between the Aviat WTM4200 WTM4100 (A2C not 
supported in WTM4200) and Navigator Single& Dual sub-carrier support.. TL;DR 
Which one you want to use to handle sub-carriers kinda depends on what license 
you can get. 

Basically, both support extended channels but they do it differently: 

* Aviat allows the sub-channels to be non-adjacent, and even different 
bandwidths , Navigator requires that they be a

Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle

[Tim Hardy]

All I meant was that 112 MHz bandwidth is an “ETSI” configuration.  There’s 
nothing in Part 101 that allows bandwidths greater than 80 MHz, so that 
particular configuration is not allowed in the US.  Other ETSI configurations,  
28 MHz or 56 MHz bandwidth are legal here and can be licensed.

Rules changes like this are not an easy process and require significant 
backing.  If this is required, you need to get WISPA lobbying it before the FCC 
and it would help to get FWCC, NSMA, and CTIA as well.  From start to finish, 
it will likely take 2 or more years.


> On Jun 11, 2020, at 10:00 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> I suspect you have this backward.  It's not so much a rule against using an 
> ETSI configuration, as the lack of that configuration in the FCC rules.  It 
> would have to be added to Title 47, and manufacturers would have to (self) 
> certify their equipment to the new rule.
> 
> What convincing arguments would you put forward for a rules change?  It seems 
> more like I want to buy European equipment designed for ETSI rules and use it 
> here.  Perhaps not the best political climate for such an appeal.  Do you 
> want Freedom Fries with that?
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 8:10 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle
> 
> Recommendations for changing that rule?
> 
> 
> 
> - 
> Mike Hammett 
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Tim Hardy" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 6:49:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle
> 
> 
> Daniel is correct, and the notion that one could coordinate and license an 80 
> MHz channel pair with a 40 MHz pair separated by 60 MHz to somehow block out 
> a 120 MHz chunk to then operate a 112 MHz bandwidth ETSI configuration is 
> patently false. Any vendor (integrator, radio OEM or coordinator) that is 
> “pushing” this concept to licensees needs to cease. A potential FCC 
> Enforcement action would be against the operator, not the vendor that may 
> have promoted this illicit scheme, so buyer beware. 
> 
> 
> Just to reiterate the primary concern - The maximum allowable bandwidth for 
> any single transmit frequency in the 11 or 18 GHz bands in the US is 80 MHz. 
> Any use of larger bandwidths would require at least two significant rule 
> waiver requests with each FCC application. A recent review of FCC licensed 
> records found no (zero) frequencies with bandwidths greater than 80 MHz, 
> therefore, anyone using 112 MHz bandwidth (as discussed by at least one 
> vendor in this thread) would be doing so at their own peril. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 10, 2020, at 12:57 PM, Peter Kranz via AF < af@af.afmug.com > wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes you can always couple two discrete radios together with a coupler to 
> achieve a 4+0, or 4 together for a 8+0 😊 
> My comparison is for all in one units from Bridgewave and Aviat. 
> 
> 
> Peter Kranz 
> www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 
> Mobile: 510-207- 
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com 
> 
> 
> 
> From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Daniel White 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 8:10 AM 
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle 
> 
> 
> I would be surprised if any dual-core radio didn't support 4+0... although it 
> may not aggregate the data streams. You will need to use a coupler, which 
> will give you 3.5dB of loss per side (or 7dB of total link budget). 
> 
> To make what Tim wrote easier to explain (at least in my opinion), is you 
> license emission designators not channel widths. For instance, a 56MHz wide 
> channel doesn't use 60MHz... it uses 56MHz. The channel plan is basically a 
> recommendation. 
> 
> So dual-carrier requires two distinct, carriers to be transmitted no one big 
> 112MHz wide carrier. So you can transmit an 80MHz carrier and a 40MHz carrier 
> (or even a 32MHz carrier) but you cannot transmit a 112MHz carrier without 
> the waivers Tim mentioned. 
> 
> 
> photograph
> Daniel White 
> Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations 
> 
> phone: +1 (702) 470-2770 
> direct: +1 (702) 470-2766 
> 
> Peter Kranz via AF wrote on 6/9/20 10:50: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Welp.. more caveats have arisen as I’ve delved deeper.. 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more details on the delta between the Aviat WTM4200 WTM4100 (A2C not 
> supported in WTM4200) and Navigator Single& Dual sub-carrier support.. TL;DR 
> Which one you want to use to handle sub-carriers kinda depends on what 
> license you can get. 
> 
> Basically, both support extended channels but they do it differently: 
> 
>* Aviat allows the sub-channels to be non-adjacent, and even different 
> bandwidths , Navigator requires that they be adjacent.

Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle

[Mike Hammett]

Generally, starting from a better-educated position is wise.

What are the reasons for what we have now? Just that no one asked?

What are the reasons it should stay the same?



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





- Original Message -
From: "Tim Hardy" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 9:24:30 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle

All I meant was that 112 MHz bandwidth is an “ETSI” configuration.  There’s 
nothing in Part 101 that allows bandwidths greater than 80 MHz, so that 
particular configuration is not allowed in the US.  Other ETSI configurations,  
28 MHz or 56 MHz bandwidth are legal here and can be licensed.

Rules changes like this are not an easy process and require significant 
backing.  If this is required, you need to get WISPA lobbying it before the FCC 
and it would help to get FWCC, NSMA, and CTIA as well.  From start to finish, 
it will likely take 2 or more years.


> On Jun 11, 2020, at 10:00 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> I suspect you have this backward.  It's not so much a rule against using an 
> ETSI configuration, as the lack of that configuration in the FCC rules.  It 
> would have to be added to Title 47, and manufacturers would have to (self) 
> certify their equipment to the new rule.
> 
> What convincing arguments would you put forward for a rules change?  It seems 
> more like I want to buy European equipment designed for ETSI rules and use it 
> here.  Perhaps not the best political climate for such an appeal.  Do you 
> want Freedom Fries with that?
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 8:10 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle
> 
> Recommendations for changing that rule?
> 
> 
> 
> - 
> Mike Hammett 
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Tim Hardy" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 6:49:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle
> 
> 
> Daniel is correct, and the notion that one could coordinate and license an 80 
> MHz channel pair with a 40 MHz pair separated by 60 MHz to somehow block out 
> a 120 MHz chunk to then operate a 112 MHz bandwidth ETSI configuration is 
> patently false. Any vendor (integrator, radio OEM or coordinator) that is 
> “pushing” this concept to licensees needs to cease. A potential FCC 
> Enforcement action would be against the operator, not the vendor that may 
> have promoted this illicit scheme, so buyer beware. 
> 
> 
> Just to reiterate the primary concern - The maximum allowable bandwidth for 
> any single transmit frequency in the 11 or 18 GHz bands in the US is 80 MHz. 
> Any use of larger bandwidths would require at least two significant rule 
> waiver requests with each FCC application. A recent review of FCC licensed 
> records found no (zero) frequencies with bandwidths greater than 80 MHz, 
> therefore, anyone using 112 MHz bandwidth (as discussed by at least one 
> vendor in this thread) would be doing so at their own peril. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 10, 2020, at 12:57 PM, Peter Kranz via AF < af@af.afmug.com > wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes you can always couple two discrete radios together with a coupler to 
> achieve a 4+0, or 4 together for a 8+0 😊 
> My comparison is for all in one units from Bridgewave and Aviat. 
> 
> 
> Peter Kranz 
> www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 
> Mobile: 510-207- 
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com 
> 
> 
> 
> From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Daniel White 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 8:10 AM 
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Aviat vs Bridgewave multi-carrier battle 
> 
> 
> I would be surprised if any dual-core radio didn't support 4+0... although it 
> may not aggregate the data streams. You will need to use a coupler, which 
> will give you 3.5dB of loss per side (or 7dB of total link budget). 
> 
> To make what Tim wrote easier to explain (at least in my opinion), is you 
> license emission designators not channel widths. For instance, a 56MHz wide 
> channel doesn't use 60MHz... it uses 56MHz. The channel plan is basically a 
> recommendation. 
> 
> So dual-carrier requires two distinct, carriers to be transmitted no one big 
> 112MHz wide carrier. So you can transmit an 80MHz carrier and a 40MHz carrier 
> (or even a 32MHz carrier) but you cannot transmit a 112MHz carrier without 
> the waivers Tim mentioned. 
> 
> 
> photograph
> Daniel White 
> Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations 
> 
> phone: +1 (702) 470-2770 
> direct: +1 (702) 470-2766 
> 
> Peter Kranz via AF wrote on 6/9/20 10:50: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Welp.. more caveats have arisen as I’ve delved deeper..

Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19

[Bill Prince]

I kinda went to the good place.

bp


On 6/10/2020 2:23 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Do I get to go hot tubbing with Jameela Jamil?

From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 2:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19


Just reboot.

https://youtu.be/brZtP21eLrs







From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 1:28 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19







I fail my way to success over and over, but a bit more difficult when 
someone (or thousands) die on each iteration.








From: Bill Prince



Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 10:34 AM



To: af@af.afmug.com



Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19







Attaching an article from today's paper about things we got wrong (and 
right I guess) about this. A couple of key sentences from the very 
beginning:




A lot of our early assumptions about the new coronavirus have 
flip-flopped. This is normal. That's how science works - it's a 
process of being less and less wrong over time.








bp

On 6/10/2020 8:59 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:



Luckily we have the Internet and researchers to provide guidance. So 
if you’re going to engage in “in-person” sexual activity, wear a face 
mask, and don’t kiss.




https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/wearing-a-face-mask-during-sex-can-reduce-covid-19-transmission-say-doctors-212954769.html 





any type of in-person sexual activity is a COVID-19 risk factor



Sexual activity with a person other than those with whom you’re 
quarantining is considered the riskiest behavior — and the researchers 
recommend wearing a face mask in that case.




Unfortunately, the virus is easily spread via respiratory particles, 
making kissing a higher-risk behavior than other intimate acts




Until this is better understood, it would be prudent to consider semen 
potentially infectious











--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19

[Ken Hohhof]

I think Covid-19 has us all in the Medium Place.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 9:41 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19

I kinda went to the good place.

bp


On 6/10/2020 2:23 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> Do I get to go hot tubbing with Jameela Jamil?
>
> From: Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 2:05 PM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19
>
>
> Just reboot.
>
> https://youtu.be/brZtP21eLrs
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 1:28 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I fail my way to success over and over, but a bit more difficult when 
> someone (or thousands) die on each iteration.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Bill Prince
>
>
>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 10:34 AM
>
>
>
> To: af@af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Attaching an article from today's paper about things we got wrong (and 
> right I guess) about this. A couple of key sentences from the very
> beginning:
>
>
>
> A lot of our early assumptions about the new coronavirus have 
> flip-flopped. This is normal. That's how science works - it's a 
> process of being less and less wrong over time.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> bp
>
> On 6/10/2020 8:59 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
>
>
> Luckily we have the Internet and researchers to provide guidance. So 
> if you’re going to engage in “in-person” sexual activity, wear a face 
> mask, and don’t kiss.
>
>
>
> https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/wearing-a-face-mask-during-sex-can-red
> uce-covid-19-transmission-say-doctors-212954769.html
>
>
>
>
> any type of in-person sexual activity is a COVID-19 risk factor
>
>
>
> Sexual activity with a person other than those with whom you’re 
> quarantining is considered the riskiest behavior — and the researchers 
> recommend wearing a face mask in that case.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, the virus is easily spread via respiratory particles, 
> making kissing a higher-risk behavior than other intimate acts
>
>
>
> Until this is better understood, it would be prudent to consider semen 
> potentially infectious
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19

[Simon Westlake]

Jokes on them, I always wear a mask.

On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 10:07 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I think Covid-19 has us all in the Medium Place.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 9:41 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19
>
> I kinda went to the good place.
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 6/10/2020 2:23 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> > Do I get to go hot tubbing with Jameela Jamil?
> >
> > From: Ken Hohhof
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 2:05 PM
> > To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19
> >
> >
> > Just reboot.
> >
> > https://youtu.be/brZtP21eLrs
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 1:28 PM
> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I fail my way to success over and over, but a bit more difficult when
> > someone (or thousands) die on each iteration.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Bill Prince
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 10:34 AM
> >
> >
> >
> > To: af@af.afmug.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Attaching an article from today's paper about things we got wrong (and
> > right I guess) about this. A couple of key sentences from the very
> > beginning:
> >
> >
> >
> > A lot of our early assumptions about the new coronavirus have
> > flip-flopped. This is normal. That's how science works - it's a
> > process of being less and less wrong over time.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > bp
> >
> > On 6/10/2020 8:59 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Luckily we have the Internet and researchers to provide guidance. So
> > if you’re going to engage in “in-person” sexual activity, wear a face
> > mask, and don’t kiss.
> >
> >
> >
> > https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/wearing-a-face-mask-during-sex-can-red
> > uce-covid-19-transmission-say-doctors-212954769.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > any type of in-person sexual activity is a COVID-19 risk factor
> >
> >
> >
> > Sexual activity with a person other than those with whom you’re
> > quarantining is considered the riskiest behavior — and the researchers
> > recommend wearing a face mask in that case.
> >
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately, the virus is easily spread via respiratory particles,
> > making kissing a higher-risk behavior than other intimate acts
> >
> >
> >
> > Until this is better understood, it would be prudent to consider semen
> > potentially infectious
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Simon Westlake | CEO
PGP Key: https://flowcrypt.com/pub/simon@sonar.software
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik

[Dennis Burgess via AF]

We tried to toss TowerCoveage.com to AWS.  Their quote was around 45k a month!  
 We are the exact opposite of what they want, high CPU and high IOPs.



[LTI-Full_175px]
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified
Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steven Kenney
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 8:42 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik

Nobody make a product anymore and sells it.  Its all subscription based.  Its 
royally pissing me off too.  I mean even in app games if you wanna remove ads 
you could just buy the game.  NOW you need to pay $10 to remove ads for A MONTH 
or a period of time.

Anyhoo.. as far as CHR - I've messed around with it on Amazon and it does work. 
 Quite cool actually but I've found after crunching the numbers over the 
years its still way cheaper running your own hardware in your own NOC than in 
the cloud.  I've had servers run for 9 years giving me way more ROI than any 
monthly subscription could.  If properly maintained.   Not to mention you are 
taking your own destiny into your own hands instead of placing them in a 3rd 
party's possession.

Now if you don't have the staff or time to manage things then yeah you will 
need to pay someone else for their expertise in putting it all together.

I think a hybrid solution is the overall best solution.  The best of both 
worlds.

--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)


From: "Seth Mattinen" mailto:se...@rollernet.us>>
To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 12:53:22 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik

On 6/10/20 6:01 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> Oh, for sure. Virtualized routers are where the industry is going, whether 
> it's a VM running on your compute infrastructure or on your switch\router.


No thanks, because here comes the annual subscriptions. Cisco already
went that way with CSR 1000V. Maybe I'm pessimistic, but the majority of
the industry is sure to go that way too. At least the first sale
doctrine applies to hardware. Tired of fucking subscriptions for every
damn thing.

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik

[Mike Hammett]

The cloud sucks unless you're the one selling it.

However, where the cloud is useful is if you need something out of band.  ;-)



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





- Original Message -
From: "Steven Kenney" 
To: "af" 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 8:42:08 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik




Nobody make a product anymore and sells it. Its all subscription based. Its 
royally pissing me off too. I mean even in app games if you wanna remove ads 
you could just buy the game. NOW you need to pay $10 to remove ads for A MONTH 
or a period of time. 


Anyhoo.. as far as CHR - I've messed around with it on Amazon and it does work. 
Quite cool actually but I've found after crunching the numbers over the 
years its still way cheaper running your own hardware in your own NOC than in 
the cloud. I've had servers run for 9 years giving me way more ROI than any 
monthly subscription could. If properly maintained. Not to mention you are 
taking your own destiny into your own hands instead of placing them in a 3rd 
party's possession. 


Now if you don't have the staff or time to manage things then yeah you will 
need to pay someone else for their expertise in putting it all together. 


I think a hybrid solution is the overall best solution. The best of both 
worlds. 


-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
http://www.wavedirect.net 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 



From: "Seth Mattinen"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 12:53:22 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik 



On 6/10/20 6:01 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> Oh, for sure. Virtualized routers are where the industry is going, whether 
> it's a VM running on your compute infrastructure or on your switch\router. 


No thanks, because here comes the annual subscriptions. Cisco already 
went that way with CSR 1000V. Maybe I'm pessimistic, but the majority of 
the industry is sure to go that way too. At least the first sale 
doctrine applies to hardware. Tired of fucking subscriptions for every 
damn thing. 

-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19

[Robert Andrews]

But now we know the good place is the bad place...

On 06/11/2020 07:41 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

I kinda went to the good place.

bp


On 6/10/2020 2:23 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Do I get to go hot tubbing with Jameela Jamil?

From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 2:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19


Just reboot.

https://youtu.be/brZtP21eLrs







From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 1:28 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19







I fail my way to success over and over, but a bit more difficult when 
someone (or thousands) die on each iteration.








From: Bill Prince



Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 10:34 AM



To: af@af.afmug.com



Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19







Attaching an article from today's paper about things we got wrong (and 
right I guess) about this. A couple of key sentences from the very 
beginning:




A lot of our early assumptions about the new coronavirus have 
flip-flopped. This is normal. That's how science works - it's a 
process of being less and less wrong over time.








bp

On 6/10/2020 8:59 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:



Luckily we have the Internet and researchers to provide guidance. So 
if you’re going to engage in “in-person” sexual activity, wear a face 
mask, and don’t kiss.




https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/wearing-a-face-mask-during-sex-can-reduce-covid-19-transmission-say-doctors-212954769.html 





any type of in-person sexual activity is a COVID-19 risk factor



Sexual activity with a person other than those with whom you’re 
quarantining is considered the riskiest behavior — and the researchers 
recommend wearing a face mask in that case.




Unfortunately, the virus is easily spread via respiratory particles, 
making kissing a higher-risk behavior than other intimate acts




Until this is better understood, it would be prudent to consider semen 
potentially infectious













--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19

[Ken Hohhof]

The Bad Place would probably be whiny customers calling 7 days a week because 
they cut the cable with a hedge trimmer or parked an RV in front of the dish or 
their trees grew or their basement flooded and shorted out the POE, but you 
need to come right now and fix it not tomorrow because they're working from 
home and their only TV is over the Internet.

OMG, we're in the Bad Place.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 11:26 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19

But now we know the good place is the bad place...

On 06/11/2020 07:41 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
> I kinda went to the good place.
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> On 6/10/2020 2:23 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> Do I get to go hot tubbing with Jameela Jamil?
>>
>> From: Ken Hohhof
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 2:05 PM
>> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19
>>
>>
>> Just reboot.
>>
>> https://youtu.be/brZtP21eLrs
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 1:28 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I fail my way to success over and over, but a bit more difficult when 
>> someone (or thousands) die on each iteration.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Bill Prince
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 10:34 AM
>>
>>
>>
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attaching an article from today's paper about things we got wrong 
>> (and right I guess) about this. A couple of key sentences from the 
>> very
>> beginning:
>>
>>
>>
>> A lot of our early assumptions about the new coronavirus have 
>> flip-flopped. This is normal. That's how science works - it's a 
>> process of being less and less wrong over time.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> On 6/10/2020 8:59 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Luckily we have the Internet and researchers to provide guidance. So 
>> if you’re going to engage in “in-person” sexual activity, wear a face 
>> mask, and don’t kiss.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/wearing-a-face-mask-during-sex-can-re
>> duce-covid-19-transmission-say-doctors-212954769.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> any type of in-person sexual activity is a COVID-19 risk factor
>>
>>
>>
>> Sexual activity with a person other than those with whom you’re 
>> quarantining is considered the riskiest behavior — and the 
>> researchers recommend wearing a face mask in that case.
>>
>>
>>
>> Unfortunately, the virus is easily spread via respiratory particles, 
>> making kissing a higher-risk behavior than other intimate acts
>>
>>
>>
>> Until this is better understood, it would be prudent to consider 
>> semen potentially infectious
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19

[chuck]

You forgot that they are day traders and you are costing them millions.

-Original Message- 
From: Ken Hohhof

Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 11:08 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19

The Bad Place would probably be whiny customers calling 7 days a week 
because they cut the cable with a hedge trimmer or parked an RV in front of 
the dish or their trees grew or their basement flooded and shorted out the 
POE, but you need to come right now and fix it not tomorrow because they're 
working from home and their only TV is over the Internet.


OMG, we're in the Bad Place.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 11:26 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19

But now we know the good place is the bad place...

On 06/11/2020 07:41 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

I kinda went to the good place.

bp


On 6/10/2020 2:23 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Do I get to go hot tubbing with Jameela Jamil?

From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 2:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19


Just reboot.

https://youtu.be/brZtP21eLrs







From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 1:28 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19







I fail my way to success over and over, but a bit more difficult when
someone (or thousands) die on each iteration.







From: Bill Prince



Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 10:34 AM



To: af@af.afmug.com



Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - safe sex and Covid-19







Attaching an article from today's paper about things we got wrong
(and right I guess) about this. A couple of key sentences from the
very
beginning:



A lot of our early assumptions about the new coronavirus have
flip-flopped. This is normal. That's how science works - it's a
process of being less and less wrong over time.







bp

On 6/10/2020 8:59 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:



Luckily we have the Internet and researchers to provide guidance. So
if you’re going to engage in “in-person” sexual activity, wear a face
mask, and don’t kiss.



https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/wearing-a-face-mask-during-sex-can-re
duce-covid-19-transmission-say-doctors-212954769.html




any type of in-person sexual activity is a COVID-19 risk factor



Sexual activity with a person other than those with whom you’re
quarantining is considered the riskiest behavior — and the
researchers recommend wearing a face mask in that case.



Unfortunately, the virus is easily spread via respiratory particles,
making kissing a higher-risk behavior than other intimate acts



Until this is better understood, it would be prudent to consider
semen potentially infectious












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[AFMUG] OSP Distributors

[Mike Hammett]

I'm looking for any OSP distributors that haven't made my list:

Millennium
Power & Tel
Innerduct.com
Codale
Comstar
Graybar
TSR Supply



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






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Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

[chuck]

Anixter

-Original Message- 
From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 1:34 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors 


I'm looking for any OSP distributors that haven't made my list:

Millennium
Power & Tel
Innerduct.com
Codale
Comstar
Graybar
TSR Supply



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







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Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

[Ken Hohhof]

Maybe Alliance, KGP?

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 2:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

I'm looking for any OSP distributors that haven't made my list:

Millennium
Power & Tel
Innerduct.com
Codale
Comstar
Graybar
TSR Supply



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






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Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

[Mike Hammett]

Have you worked with Alliance or KGP? If so, could you make an introduction?



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





- Original Message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 2:41:16 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

Maybe Alliance, KGP?

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 2:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

I'm looking for any OSP distributors that haven't made my list:

Millennium
Power & Tel
Innerduct.com
Codale
Comstar
Graybar
TSR Supply



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






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Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

[Mike Hammett]

Anixter makes sense. If Graybar is doing it, Anixter probably is too.



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





- Original Message -
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 2:41:32 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

Anixter

-Original Message- 
From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 1:34 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors 

I'm looking for any OSP distributors that haven't made my list:

Millennium
Power & Tel
Innerduct.com
Codale
Comstar
Graybar
TSR Supply



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






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Re: [AFMUG] Vendors for "long haul" fiber

[Peter Kranz via AF]

How far are you trying to go, and what speeds are you looking to carry?

 

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com  
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com  

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Paul McCall
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2020 11:17 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Vendors for "long haul" fiber

 

We are connecting to a DC using dark fiber that we need to light up with a
DWDM solution, with one regen spot and one regular breakout spot.  We
received quotes from Fiberstore.com and are looking for a 2nd quote "just
because".

 

I know FS is known as a good value, but didn't know if there is another
vendor we should be considering.

 

Paul

 

Paul McCall, President 

Florida Broadband / PDMNet

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800

 

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Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

I have similar gripes with AWS.   If you've got an application which was
written for AWS and takes advantage of their infrastructure in the right
way it isn't that bad.   For instance, I'm seriously looking at using their
serverless/IoT infrastructure for something I'm working on here, and the
pricing I'm seeing is far better than I could do with a reasonable
infrastructure to support it.   Plus it scales nicely.

For more traditional systems,  Normal AWS is pretty expensive.On the
other hand, the newer Lightsail service is more oriented toward those
apps...  You can get a entry-level server for $3.50/month, or at the other
end, $160/month you can get a 32GB RAM,  8 Core, 640GB storage server.

On the other hand, I really like Vultr, which has similar pricing but it is
a lot easier to deal with.

On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 9:59 AM Dennis Burgess via AF 
wrote:

> We tried to toss TowerCoveage.com to AWS.  Their quote was around 45k a
> month!   We are the exact opposite of what they want, high CPU and high
> IOPs.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>
>
> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
> MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified *
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steven Kenney
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 11, 2020 8:42 AM
> *To:* af 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik
>
>
>
> Nobody make a product anymore and sells it.  Its all subscription based.
> Its royally pissing me off too.  I mean even in app games if you wanna
> remove ads you could just buy the game.  NOW you need to pay $10 to remove
> ads for A MONTH or a period of time.
>
>
>
> Anyhoo.. as far as CHR - I've messed around with it on Amazon and it does
> work.  Quite cool actually but I've found after crunching the numbers
> over the years its still way cheaper running your own hardware in your own
> NOC than in the cloud.  I've had servers run for 9 years giving me way more
> ROI than any monthly subscription could.  If properly maintained.   Not to
> mention you are taking your own destiny into your own hands instead of
> placing them in a 3rd party's possession.
>
>
>
> Now if you don't have the staff or time to manage things then yeah you
> will need to pay someone else for their expertise in putting it all
> together.
>
>
>
> I think a hybrid solution is the overall best solution.  The best of both
> worlds.
>
>
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Seth Mattinen" 
> *To: *"af" 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, June 10, 2020 12:53:22 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Cloud Hosted Mikrotik
>
>
>
> On 6/10/20 6:01 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> > Oh, for sure. Virtualized routers are where the industry is going,
> whether it's a VM running on your compute infrastructure or on your
> switch\router.
>
>
> No thanks, because here comes the annual subscriptions. Cisco already
> went that way with CSR 1000V. Maybe I'm pessimistic, but the majority of
> the industry is sure to go that way too. At least the first sale
> doctrine applies to hardware. Tired of fucking subscriptions for every
> damn thing.
>
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>


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[AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Adam Moffett]

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post next 
to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to 
plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And 
if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside their RV.


of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, 
but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already.




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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Robert Andrews]

As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't 
even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post next 
to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to 
plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And 
if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside their RV.


of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, 
but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already.






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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Adam Moffett]

Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's part 
of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be 
nice to have the option to plug in a cable.


I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.



Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give me 
a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone 
jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each 
RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, 
and if there was ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage 
to a particular site rather than just "somewhere in the park".



On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections 
and doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   
Don't even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post 
next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be 
able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to 
do so.  And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right 
outside their RV.


of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, 
but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already.






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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

Why are you doing fiber?

We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.

It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
sectors that cover several RV campers.

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> 
> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's part of 
> why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be nice to 
> have the option to plug in a cable. 
> 
> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV power 
> ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/. 
> 
> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give me a 
> place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone jacks in 
> it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each RV gets their 
> own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, and if there was 
> ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage to a particular site 
> rather than just "somewhere in the park". 
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>> As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
>> doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't even 
>> carry and ethernet cable... 
>> 
>>> On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 
>>> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site? 
>>> 
>>> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post next to 
>>> their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to plug 
>>> Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And if they 
>>> don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside their RV. 
>>> 
>>> of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, but 
>>> I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Trey Scarborough]

Ive used mikrotik RB922UAGS-5HPacD with sfp and 2.4g R11e-2HPnD inside a 
metal enclosure and external antennas.


On 6/11/2020 4:03 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's 
part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it 
would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.


I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.



Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give 
me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two 
keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are 
that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody 
around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue we could 
track the usage to a particular site rather than just "somewhere in 
the park".



On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections 
and doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   
Don't even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post 
next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be 
able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to 
do so.  And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi 
right outside their RV.


of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this 
together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this 
already.









--

Trey Scarborough
VP Engineering
3DS Communications LLC
p:9729741539

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Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

[Ken Hohhof]

Is Anixter still around?  Maybe what I'm thinking is I used to go to an
Anixter brick and mortar store with a counter where you could buy stuff or
pick up will call orders and they closed that particular location.  I can
still do that at Graybar.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 2:52 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

Anixter makes sense. If Graybar is doing it, Anixter probably is too.



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





- Original Message -
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 2:41:32 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

Anixter

-Original Message- 
From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 1:34 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors 

I'm looking for any OSP distributors that haven't made my list:

Millennium
Power & Tel
Innerduct.com
Codale
Comstar
Graybar
TSR Supply



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






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Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

[Ken Hohhof]

I think I have bought from each of them once, several years ago.  I think I
bought some Eltek gear from KGP.  They were both pretty easy to work with so
I think you could just call and ask for a sales rep.  I don't have an
extensive track record or contacts with either of them.

Actually I think one of my customers had a girlfriend who worked for
Alliance, she kept trying to sell me Ubiquiti stuff.  They broke up though
and she moved out.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 2:52 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

Have you worked with Alliance or KGP? If so, could you make an introduction?



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





- Original Message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 2:41:16 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

Maybe Alliance, KGP?

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 2:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

I'm looking for any OSP distributors that haven't made my list:

Millennium
Power & Tel
Innerduct.com
Codale
Comstar
Graybar
TSR Supply



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Robert Andrews]

How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation 
of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite 
dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.


On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?

We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.


It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
sectors that cover several RV campers.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:



Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's 
part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it 
would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.


I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.



Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give 
me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two 
keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are 
that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody 
around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue we could 
track the usage to a particular site rather than just "somewhere in 
the park".



On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections 
and doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   
Don't even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post 
next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be 
able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to 
do so.  And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi 
right outside their RV.


of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this 
together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this 
already.







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Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

[Mike Hammett]

Either Anixter or WESCO has a distribution center in or near Carol Stream.


- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





- Original Message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:02:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

Is Anixter still around?  Maybe what I'm thinking is I used to go to an
Anixter brick and mortar store with a counter where you could buy stuff or
pick up will call orders and they closed that particular location.  I can
still do that at Graybar.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 2:52 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

Anixter makes sense. If Graybar is doing it, Anixter probably is too.



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





- Original Message -
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 2:41:32 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

Anixter

-Original Message- 
From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 1:34 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors 

I'm looking for any OSP distributors that haven't made my list:

Millennium
Power & Tel
Innerduct.com
Codale
Comstar
Graybar
TSR Supply



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






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Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

[Mike Hammett]

This alliance?  https://alliancecorporation.ca/



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





- Original Message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:05:55 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

I think I have bought from each of them once, several years ago.  I think I
bought some Eltek gear from KGP.  They were both pretty easy to work with so
I think you could just call and ask for a sales rep.  I don't have an
extensive track record or contacts with either of them.

Actually I think one of my customers had a girlfriend who worked for
Alliance, she kept trying to sell me Ubiquiti stuff.  They broke up though
and she moved out.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 2:52 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

Have you worked with Alliance or KGP? If so, could you make an introduction?



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





- Original Message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 2:41:16 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

Maybe Alliance, KGP?

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 2:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

I'm looking for any OSP distributors that haven't made my list:

Millennium
Power & Tel
Innerduct.com
Codale
Comstar
Graybar
TSR Supply



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite dishes 
are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging to the camp 
owner.

And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews  wrote:
> 
> How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation of 
> FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite dish 
> it's fully enclosed and not visible.
> 
>> On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> Why are you doing fiber?
>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
>> Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
>> sectors that cover several RV campers.
 On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's part of 
>>> why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be nice 
>>> to have the option to plug in a cable.
>>> 
>>> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV power 
>>> ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give me a 
>>> place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone jacks 
>>> in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each RV gets 
>>> their own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, and if 
>>> there was ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage to a 
>>> particular site rather than just "somewhere in the park".
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
 As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
 doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't even 
 carry and ethernet cable...
 
 On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?
> 
> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post next to 
> their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to plug 
> Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And if 
> they don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside their RV.
> 
> of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, but 
> I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already.
> 
> 
> 
 
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching TV?


-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes

Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging to 
the camp owner.


And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.

On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews  
wrote:


How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation 
of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite 
dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.



On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
Why are you doing fiber?
We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
sectors that cover several RV campers.

On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:




Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's part 
of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be 
nice to have the option to plug in a cable.


I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.



Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give me 
a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone 
jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each 
RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, 
and if there was ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage 
to a particular site rather than just "somewhere in the park".



On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't 
even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post next 
to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to 
plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so. 
And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside 
their RV.


of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, 
but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already.







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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Chris Fabien]

We did a fiber fed unifi system in a 150 site RV campground and it has
worked out quite well. Active Ethernet with BiDi optics to a Ubnt Fiber POE
and Unifi AP mounted on a 4x4 post between sites or on a building. Hid a
24V 1A POE inside the nearest power pedestal and a short buried cat5 to
feed fiber to each post. Two loops of 12F flat drop cable buried along the
road, homerun back to a small network cabinet in the office. I caution
anyone looking at a campground network to carefully set expectations with
management, if you want guaranteed wifi inside all campers, you're probably
going to need one AP per two sites. With our deployment you can use wifi
outside in most areas and inside some campers and not inside others. And
coverage varies considerably with RVs moving in and out and all kinds of
interfering wifi networks, repeaters, hotspots etc. We basically handle any
complaints as, we'd be happy to come install another AP to improve signal
in that location, here's the cost. They haven't had us back out yet.

On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 4:31 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?
>
> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post next
> to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to
> plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And
> if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside their RV.
>
> of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together,
> but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already.
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Ken Hohhof]

I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable or 
roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD

Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you don't 
have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the road in 
summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish at their 
scalehouse during harvest.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching TV?

-Original Message-
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite dishes 
are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging to the camp 
owner.

And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
> How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation 
> of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite 
> dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.
>
>> On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> Why are you doing fiber?
>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over 
>> the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to 
>> the sectors that cover several RV campers.
 On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's 
>>> part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it 
>>> would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
>>>
>>> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
>>> power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
>>> 
>>>
>>> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might 
>>> give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two 
>>> keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach 
>>> are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with 
>>> everybody around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue 
>>> we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just "somewhere 
>>> in the park".
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
 As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
 doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't 
 even carry and ethernet cable...

 On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?
>
> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post 
> next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be 
> able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.
> And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right 
> outside their RV.
>
> of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this 
> together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this 
> already.
>
>
>

>>> --
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>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable or 
> roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like this:
> https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD
> 
> Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you don't 
> have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the road in 
> summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish at their 
> scalehouse during harvest.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
> 
> So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
> radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching TV?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
> 
> OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
> dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging to 
> the camp owner.
> 
> And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation 
>> of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite 
>> dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.
>> 
 On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>> Why are you doing fiber?
>>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over 
>>> the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to 
>>> the sectors that cover several RV campers.
> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
 
 
 
 Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's 
 part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it 
 would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
 
 I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
 power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
 
 
 Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might 
 give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two 
 keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach 
 are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with 
 everybody around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue 
 we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just "somewhere 
 in the park".
 
 
 On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
> As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
> doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't 
> even carry and ethernet cable...
> 
> On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?
>> 
>> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post 
>> next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be 
>> able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do 
>> so.
>> And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right 
>> outside their RV.
>> 
>> of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this 
>> together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this 
>> already.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
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 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

[Ken Hohhof]

Yes, although I think my memory malfunctioned and the company I actually
bought from was Accu-Tech.  So I'm not sure why I thought of Alliance.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:12 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

This alliance?  https://alliancecorporation.ca/



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





- Original Message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:05:55 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

I think I have bought from each of them once, several years ago.  I think I
bought some Eltek gear from KGP.  They were both pretty easy to work with so
I think you could just call and ask for a sales rep.  I don't have an
extensive track record or contacts with either of them.

Actually I think one of my customers had a girlfriend who worked for
Alliance, she kept trying to sell me Ubiquiti stuff.  They broke up though
and she moved out.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 2:52 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

Have you worked with Alliance or KGP? If so, could you make an introduction?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





- Original Message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 2:41:16 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

Maybe Alliance, KGP?

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 2:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] OSP Distributors

I'm looking for any OSP distributors that haven't made my list:

Millennium
Power & Tel
Innerduct.com
Codale
Comstar
Graybar
TSR Supply



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.

-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes

Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?


On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable 
or roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like 
this:

https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD

Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you 
don't have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the 
road in summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish at 
their scalehouse during harvest.



-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching 
TV?


-Original Message-
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging 
to the camp owner.


And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.


On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
wrote:

How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation
of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite
dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.


On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?
We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over
the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to
the sectors that cover several RV campers.

On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:




Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's
part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it
would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.

I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.


Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might
give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two
keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach
are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with
everybody around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue
we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just 
"somewhere in the park".



On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections 
and

doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't
even carry and ethernet cable...

On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post
next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be
able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to 
do so.

And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right
outside their RV.

of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this
together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this 
already.







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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?

Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to sleep. 

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
> 
> Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> 
>> I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable 
>> or roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like this:
>> https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD
>> 
>> Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you don't 
>> have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the road in 
>> summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish at their 
>> scalehouse during harvest.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>> 
>> So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
>> radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching TV?
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>> 
>> OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
>> dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging to 
>> the camp owner.
>> 
>> And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.
>> 
>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation
>>> of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite
>>> dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.
>>> 
> On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 Why are you doing fiber?
 We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over
 the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
 It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to
 the sectors that cover several RV campers.
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's
> part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it
> would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
> 
> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV
> power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
> 
> 
> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might
> give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two
> keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach
> are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with
> everybody around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue
> we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just "somewhere 
> in the park".
> 
> 
> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>> As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and
>> doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't
>> even carry and ethernet cable...
>> 
>>> On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
 If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?
 
 I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post
 next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be
 able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do 
 so.
 And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right
 outside their RV.
 
 of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this
 together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this 
 already.
 
 
 
>>> 
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> 
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
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> h

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Ken Hohhof]

Interesting question about OTARD applicability.  If I rent an apartment, the 
landlord cannot stop me from putting a satellite dish on my exclusive space, I 
just can't put it on a common area.  But I'm going to assume I can't put a 
satellite dish on the balcony of a hotel room.  Not sure what is different 
between a rental apartment and a hotel room.

I don't follow your argument about a commercial environment.  Because the park 
rents spaces for profit?  So does an apartment building.  I don't see how OTARD 
only applies to non profits.  Are you saying it is like a rental office?  Not 
sure I buy that, but if it was true, I'm not sure if OTARD applies to rental 
office space.  I think one of the landmark cases involved the Continental 
Airlines lounge at Boston Logan Aireport.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 6:36 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?

Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to sleep. 

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
> 
> Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> 
>> I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable 
>> or roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like this:
>> https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/
>> dp/B074CPRJSD
>> 
>> Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you don't 
>> have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the road in 
>> summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish at their 
>> scalehouse during harvest.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>> 
>> So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
>> radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching TV?
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>> 
>> OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
>> dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging to 
>> the camp owner.
>> 
>> And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.
>> 
>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation
>>> of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite
>>> dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.
>>> 
> On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
 Why are you doing fiber?
 We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream 
 over the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
 It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly 
 to the sectors that cover several RV campers.
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and 
> that's part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just 
> thought it would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
> 
> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the 
> RV power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
> 
> 
> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might 
> give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be 
> two keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this 
> approach are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing 
> it with everybody around them, and if there was ever a law 
> enforcement issue we could track the usage to a particular site rather 
> than just "somewhere in the park".
> 
> 
> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>> As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and
>> doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't
>> even carry and ethernet cable...
>> 
>>> On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
 If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?
 
 I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a 
 post next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the 
 campers to be able to plug 

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Chuck McCown]

Deadheading bobtail.  Happens all the time.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?
> 
> Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to sleep. 
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> 
>> I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.
>> 
>> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>> 
>> Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?
>> 
 On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable 
>>> or roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like this:
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD
>>> 
>>> Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you don't 
>>> have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the road in 
>>> summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish at their 
>>> scalehouse during harvest.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>> 
>>> So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
>>> radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching TV?
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Matt Hoppes
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>> 
>>> OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
>>> dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging to 
>>> the camp owner.
>>> 
>>> And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.
>>> 
 On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
 wrote:
 
 How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation
 of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite
 dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.
 
>> On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> Why are you doing fiber?
> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over
> the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to
> the sectors that cover several RV campers.
>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's
>> part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it
>> would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
>> 
>> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV
>> power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
>> 
>> 
>> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might
>> give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two
>> keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach
>> are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with
>> everybody around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue
>> we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just 
>> "somewhere in the park".
>> 
>> 
>> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>> As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and
>>> doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't
>>> even carry and ethernet cable...
>>> 
 On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?
> 
> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post
> next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be
> able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to 
> do so.
> And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right
> outside their RV.
> 
> of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this
> together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this 
> already.
> 
> 
> 
 
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
 
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> 
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> A

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

I see. Well that’s illegal in the parks we manage and security would be over in 
a flash. 

I’m aware of continental. Which is interesting since OTARD doesn’t apply to 
commercial. 

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:38 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> Deadheading bobtail.  Happens all the time.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hoppes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?
>> 
>> Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to sleep. 
>> 
 On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>> 
>>> Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?
>>> 
> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
 
 I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable 
 or roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like 
 this:
 https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD
 
 Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you 
 don't have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the 
 road in summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish at 
 their scalehouse during harvest.
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
 Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
 To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
 
 So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
 radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching 
 TV?
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Matt Hoppes
 Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
 To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
 
 OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
 dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging 
 to the camp owner.
 
 And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.
 
> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
> 
> How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation
> of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite
> dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.
> 
>>> On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> Why are you doing fiber?
>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over
>> the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to
>> the sectors that cover several RV campers.
 On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's
>>> part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it
>>> would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
>>> 
>>> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV
>>> power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might
>>> give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two
>>> keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach
>>> are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with
>>> everybody around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue
>>> we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just 
>>> "somewhere in the park".
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
 As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and
 doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't
 even carry and ethernet cable...
 
> On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?
>> 
>> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post
>> next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be
>> able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to 
>> do so.
>> And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right
>> outside their RV.
>> 
>> of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this
>> together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this 
>> already.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

Interesting.  You do not want truckers as customers.  They just want a 
shower and to use the laundry and pool if it is available, and their truck 
will not get messed with in an RV park.  But it is illegal to be a customer?


-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes

Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 6:44 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I see. Well that’s illegal in the parks we manage and security would be over 
in a flash.


I’m aware of continental. Which is interesting since OTARD doesn’t apply to 
commercial.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:38 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Deadheading bobtail.  Happens all the time.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:


Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?

Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to 
sleep.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:


I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.

-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?


On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:


I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a 
portable or roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims 
itself.  Like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD

Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you 
don't have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the 
road in summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish 
at their scalehouse during harvest.



-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under 
the radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are 
watching TV?


-Original Message-
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land 
belonging to the camp owner.


And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground 
is.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
wrote:

How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear 
violation
of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our 
satellite

dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.


On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?
We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over
the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to
the sectors that cover several RV campers.
On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  
wrote:




Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's
part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it
would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.

I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.


Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might
give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two
keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach
are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with
everybody around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue
we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just 
"somewhere in the park".



On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections 
and
doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for. 
Don't

even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post
next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to 
be
able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal 
to do so.

And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right
outside their RV.

of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this
together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for 
this already.







--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

I’m sure they could stay. But not in the middle of the road. They would need to 
be in an assigned space. 

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:57 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> Interesting.  You do not want truckers as customers.  They just want a 
> shower and to use the laundry and pool if it is available, and their truck 
> will not get messed with in an RV park.  But it is illegal to be a customer?
> 
> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 6:44 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
> 
> I see. Well that’s illegal in the parks we manage and security would be over 
> in a flash.
> 
> I’m aware of continental. Which is interesting since OTARD doesn’t apply to 
> commercial.
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:38 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>> 
>> Deadheading bobtail.  Happens all the time.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hoppes 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?
>>> 
>>> Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to sleep.
>>> 
> On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
 
 I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.
 
 -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
 Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
 To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
 
 Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?
 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a 
> portable or roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself. 
>  Like this:
> https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD
> 
> Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you 
> don't have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the 
> road in summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish at 
> their scalehouse during harvest.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
> 
> So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under 
> the radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are 
> watching TV?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
> 
> OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
> dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging 
> to the camp owner.
> 
> And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation
>> of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite
>> dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.
>> 
 On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>> Why are you doing fiber?
>>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over
>>> the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to
>>> the sectors that cover several RV campers.
> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
 
 
 
 Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's
 part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it
 would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
 
 I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV
 power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
 
 
 Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might
 give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two
 keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach
 are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with
 everybody around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue
 we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just 
 "somewhere in the park".
 
 
 On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
> As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections 
> and
> doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for. Don't
> even carry and ethernet cable...
> 
>> On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

Who said anything about the middle of the road?

I said:  "So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat 
under the radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are 
watching TV?"


So, are you?

-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes

Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 7:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I’m sure they could stay. But not in the middle of the road. They would need 
to be in an assigned space.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:57 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Interesting.  You do not want truckers as customers.  They just want a 
shower and to use the laundry and pool if it is available, and their truck 
will not get messed with in an RV park.  But it is illegal to be a 
customer?


-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 6:44 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I see. Well that’s illegal in the parks we manage and security would be 
over in a flash.


I’m aware of continental. Which is interesting since OTARD doesn’t apply 
to commercial.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:38 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Deadheading bobtail.  Happens all the time.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:


Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?

Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to 
sleep.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:


I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.

-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?


On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:


I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a 
portable or roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims 
itself.  Like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD

Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you 
don't have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit 
the road in summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" 
dish at their scalehouse during harvest.



-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under 
the radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are 
watching TV?


-Original Message-
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the 
satellite dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the 
land belonging to the camp owner.


And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground 
is.



On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
wrote:

How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear 
violation
of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our 
satellite

dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.


On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?
We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over
the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to
the sectors that cover several RV campers.
On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  
wrote:




Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's
part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it
would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.

I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the 
RV

power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.


Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might
give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be 
two

keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach
are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with
everybody around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement 
issue
we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just 
"somewhere in the park".



On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi 
connections and
doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for. 
Don't

even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a 
post
next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to 
be
able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal 
t

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Seth Mattinen]

On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Who said anything about the middle of the road?



I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore 
wouldn't fit in a space.


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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

I guess I should have said tractor.  

-Original Message- 
From: Seth Mattinen 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 7:22 PM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber 


On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Who said anything about the middle of the road?



I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore 
wouldn't fit in a space.


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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

I don’t get your question. 

They can come in. Pay for a space. Stay the night and buy WiFi. 

What is the issue?

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> I guess I should have said tractor.  
> -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 
> 7:22 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber 
>> On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> Who said anything about the middle of the road?
> 
> 
> I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore wouldn't 
> fit in a space.
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

I’m still confused. What’s the issue?

Tractor paying for night. In spot. Paying for WiFi. 

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:43 PM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> I don’t get your question. 
> 
> They can come in. Pay for a space. Stay the night and buy WiFi. 
> 
> What is the issue?
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> 
>> I guess I should have said tractor.  
>> -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 
>> 7:22 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber 
 On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>> Who said anything about the middle of the road?
>> 
>> 
>> I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore wouldn't 
>> fit in a space.
>> 
>> -- 
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[chuck]

The issue is many nice tractors with the nice large sleepers have a mobile 
satellite under a radome on the back side of the sleeper.  You said they 
cannot use it.  I asked if you are going to bang on their door and ask them 
if they were watching TV.


-Original Message- 
From: Matt Hoppes

Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 7:44 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I’m still confused. What’s the issue?

Tractor paying for night. In spot. Paying for WiFi.

On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:43 PM, Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:


I don’t get your question.

They can come in. Pay for a space. Stay the night and buy WiFi.

What is the issue?


On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I guess I should have said tractor.
-Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, June 11, 
2020 7:22 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Who said anything about the middle of the road?



I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore 
wouldn't fit in a space.


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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Ken Hohhof]

Q:  Does the rule apply to commercial property or only residential property?

A:  Nothing in the rule excludes antennas installed on commercial property.  
The rule applies to property used for commercial purposes in the same way it 
applies to residential property.

Source:  https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 7:45 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I see. Well that’s illegal in the parks we manage and security would be over in 
a flash. 

I’m aware of continental. Which is interesting since OTARD doesn’t apply to 
commercial. 

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:38 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> Deadheading bobtail.  Happens all the time.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hoppes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?
>> 
>> Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to sleep. 
>> 
 On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>> 
>>> Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?
>>> 
> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
 
 I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable 
 or roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like 
 this:
 https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellit
 e/dp/B074CPRJSD
 
 Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you 
 don't have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the 
 road in summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish at 
 their scalehouse during harvest.
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
 Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
 To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
 
 So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
 radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching 
 TV?
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Matt Hoppes
 Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
 To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
 
 OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
 dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging 
 to the camp owner.
 
 And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.
 
> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
> 
> wrote:
> 
> How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation
> of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite
> dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.
> 
>>> On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> Why are you doing fiber?
>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream 
>> over the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly 
>> to the sectors that cover several RV campers.
 On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and 
>>> that's part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just 
>>> thought it would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
>>> 
>>> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of 
>>> the RV power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might 
>>> give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be 
>>> two keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this 
>>> approach are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing 
>>> it with everybody around them, and if there was ever a law 
>>> enforcement issue we could track the usage to a particular site rather 
>>> than just "somewhere in the park".
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
 As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and
 doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't
 even carry and ethernet cable...
 
> On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?
>> 
>> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enable

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Robert]

It may be prohibited, but I would seriously doubt if it was illegal by 
the local authority.  They do have laws prohibiting semi's from parking 
on residential streets due to street width restrictions and areas that 
are noise sensitive due to them running their generators all night.


On 6/11/20 5:44 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

I see. Well that’s illegal in the parks we manage and security would be over in 
a flash.

I’m aware of continental. Which is interesting since OTARD doesn’t apply to 
commercial.


On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:38 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Deadheading bobtail.  Happens all the time.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hoppes  
wrote:

Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?

Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to sleep.


On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.

-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?


On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable or 
roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD

Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you don't have to pay 
an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the road in summer.  We have a farm 
customer that uses their "mobile" dish at their scalehouse during harvest.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching TV?

-Original Message-
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite dishes 
are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging to the camp 
owner.

And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.


On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
wrote:

How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation
of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite
dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.


On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?
We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over
the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to
the sectors that cover several RV campers.

On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:



Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's
part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it
would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.

I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV
power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.


Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might
give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two
keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach
are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with
everybody around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue
we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just "somewhere in the 
park".


On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and
doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't
even carry and ethernet cable...


On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?

I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post
next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be
able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.
And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right
outside their RV.

of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this
together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already.




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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Robert]

What's the issue...?  "Buy WiFi"   most truckers aren't looking for more 
ways to spend $$...  That's why they have complete setups on the back of 
their tractors...


On 6/11/20 6:43 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

I don’t get your question.

They can come in. Pay for a space. Stay the night and buy WiFi.

What is the issue?


On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I guess I should have said tractor.
-Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 
7:22 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Who said anything about the middle of the road?


I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore wouldn't 
fit in a space.

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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Robert]

Yeah, I am pretty certain that if I was staying there and someone said I 
had to buy wifi, I would tell them to pound sand. And if they then tried 
to kick me out, I would drop a dime to the local constable, and after 
that to my retained lawyer, he loves making money on that kind of monkey 
business.   He's written three OTARD letters over the years and loves 
hearing from HOA's, haven't paid his fees for any of them and he made 
enough $$ off the first one, which went to court, to pay his fees for a 
long while.   Yeah OTARD has teeth.   We have a bunch of very badly 
written HOA agreements here in my neck of the woods.   The only one I 
didn't fight was the stupid one my house is in, because you don't ... in 
your own bed..



On 6/11/20 7:25 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Q:  Does the rule apply to commercial property or only residential property?

A:  Nothing in the rule excludes antennas installed on commercial property.  
The rule applies to property used for commercial purposes in the same way it 
applies to residential property.

Source:  https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 7:45 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

I see. Well that’s illegal in the parks we manage and security would be over in 
a flash.

I’m aware of continental. Which is interesting since OTARD doesn’t apply to 
commercial.


On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:38 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Deadheading bobtail.  Happens all the time.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hoppes  
wrote:

Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?

Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to sleep.


On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.

-Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?


On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable or 
roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellit
e/dp/B074CPRJSD

Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you don't have to pay 
an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the road in summer.  We have a farm 
customer that uses their "mobile" dish at their scalehouse during harvest.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching TV?

-Original Message-
From: Matt Hoppes
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite dishes 
are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging to the camp 
owner.

And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.


On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews

wrote:

How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation
of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite
dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.


On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Why are you doing fiber?
We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream
over the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly
to the sectors that cover several RV campers.

On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:



Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and
that's part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just
thought it would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.

I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of
the RV power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.


Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might
give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be
two keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this
approach are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing
it with everybody around them, and if there was ever a law
enforcement issue we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just 
"somewhere in the park".


On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and
doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't
even carry and e