Re: [9fans] what features would you like in a shell?

[matt]

I've not run into many actual problems with rc so it's pretty near 
perfect :>


Though as Erik said - regex matches to compliment ~ matching

hash maps : a['name'] = 'glenda'
arithmetic - though with the 80/20 rule, I don't think the bloat is worth it

I tried a write a couple of other ideas but each time it was better to 
spawn awk or some other better tool for the job!

Re: [9fans] what features would you like in a shell?

[matt]

If somebody wants to do such a thing (which all we agree is a bad
idea) you need no new features in the shell, eg:
while() firefox
   

that doesn't permit a clean exit, this does :

fn ff {firefox || ff} ; ff;

Re: [9fans] what features would you like in a shell?

[matt]

you think the idea of reloading a crashed program is not a good one?
for example, what if it's a web browser?




crash reload crash reload crash reload agghh make it stop

btw. Windows uses this mechanism for running Explorer, as a stop gap to 
fixing it they just made it auto-respawn.



either way I think it's a unrequired feature for a shell, a user program 
specifically for monitoring process state would be preferred, should it 
be required.

[9fans] Someone let the domain go

[matt]

http://www.lucent-inferno.com/


er nsfw btw !

Re: [9fans] [limbo] I tried keyring, but it was the wrong number

[matt]

Charles Forsyth wrote:


with a zero modulus (which suggests the key wasn't unpacked correctly).
   



my deliberate mistake (it won't be using rsaencrypt but rsadecrypt)
happened to highlight the actual problem, which is that strtosk
shouldn't accept a string that looks to me (if not to it)
like a public key not a private/secret one,
producing something with plenty of zero mpint potential divisors.
b00f!

 


Yes, that was exactly it. I've changed the key generator to use default
names. How I mixed them up I don't know, but I did.

Re: [9fans] Using proportional fonts in Acme for Programming

[matt]

I always use proportional, 10 years ish now

I always use tabs not spaces for indenting

I don't remember it ever being a problem, certainly not one unsolved by 
clicking on Font

Re: [9fans] audio standards -- too many to choose from

[matt]

Charles Forsyth wrote:


Hardware 24...@192khz.
   



the human ear can't hear as high as that
still, it ought to please any passing bat!
Hi-fi, hi-fi, ...

 

Personally I can't hear over 9119 hz (audio), but I might want to record 
1s of 192Khz (samples I presume) and stretch them by 100x to 9600 hz 
(audio) and have a (possibly) interesting time listening to the results 
without interpolating.

Re: [9fans] Thrift RPC

[matt]

I have not been able to convince coworkers that filesystem namespaces
are the way to go.  I think they think it is too hard.

*shrug*  you can lead a horse...
   



Funny, the problem I usually have is that people think file systems
are *too simple*, oh, no data types other than *byte stream* and
*drectory*, and no type checking! We are all going to die!

People seem to have trouble believing something simple can do a job
that they have convinced themselves needs to be very complicated.

uriel

 


The point being that for most people, writing the FS is the hard part no ?

The java 9p server was interesting in that it served functions as 
files. I think we need a few more thinga like that where we can begin to 
stop thinking about the 9p part when designing a service

[9fans] Matrox DualHead2Go

[matt]

Hi, I don't quite know what I'm asking, I'm just fishing for responses :)

I got a Matrox DualHead2Go which splits a vga signal across multiple 
monitors. Atm. I have it driving two screen with a duplicated image but 
if you supply it one of these modes :


edid 2048x76...@60hz
   clock=113.75
   shb=2136 ehb=2200 ht=2352
   vrs=771 vre=786 vt=806
   hsync=+ vsync=-
edid 2048x76...@75hz
   clock=137.81
   shb=2120 ehb=2176 ht=2296
   vrs=769 vre=784 vt=800
   hsync=+ vsync=-
edid 2560x102...@60hz
   clock=189.82
   shb=2608 ehb=2720 ht=2968
   vrs=1025 vre=1037 vt=1066
   hsync=+ vsync=-
edid 2048x76...@85hz
   clock=165.39
   shb=2160 ehb=2232 ht=2408
   vrs=769 vre=781 vt=808
   hsync=- vsync=-


It will become two distinct screens, half on each monitor.
You can see form my Vesa mode dump that we don't have that in the list. 
My nvidia card (8600 GT dual SLI) is aslo unrecognised by the vganvida.c

pci | grep vid
3.0.0:vid  03.00.00 10de/0402  10 0:f900 16777216 1:c00c 
268435456 2: 16 3:f604 33554432 4: 16 5:cc01 128
4.0.0:vid  03.00.00 10de/0402  10 0:fd00 16777216 1:d00c 
268435456 2: 16 3:fa04 33554432 4: 16 5:dc01 128





edid mfrMTX
edid serialstr 
edid name  
edid product768

edid serial 1363750341
edid version1.3
edid mfrdate2007.44
edid size (cm)  41x31
edid gamma  2.21
edid vert (Hz)  0-0
edid horz (Hz)  0-0
edid pclkmax0
edid flags   standby suspend activeoff
edid 640x48...@60hz
   clock=25.175
   shb=648 ehb=792 ht=800
   vrs=490 vre=492 vt=525
   hsync=- vsync=-
edid 640x48...@75hz
   clock=31.5
   shb=640 ehb=840 ht=840
   vrs=481 vre=484 vt=500
   hsync=- vsync=-
edid 800x60...@60hz
   clock=40
   shb=800 ehb=1056 ht=1056
   vrs=601 vre=605 vt=628
   hsync=+ vsync=+
edid 800x60...@75hz
   clock=49.5
   shb=800 ehb=1056 ht=1056
   vrs=601 vre=604 vt=625
   hsync=+ vsync=+
edid 1024x76...@60hz
   clock=65
   shb=1024 ehb=1344 ht=1344
   vrs=771 vre=777 vt=806
   hsync=- vsync=-
edid 1024x76...@75hz
   clock=78.75
   shb=1024 ehb=1312 ht=1312
   vrs=769 vre=772 vt=800
   hsync=+ vsync=+
edid 1280x102...@75hz
   clock=135
   shb=1280 ehb=1688 ht=1688
   vrs=1025 vre=1028 vt=1066
   hsync=+ vsync=+
edid 2048x76...@60hz
   clock=113.75
   shb=2136 ehb=2200 ht=2352
   vrs=771 vre=786 vt=806
   hsync=+ vsync=-
edid 2048x76...@75hz
   clock=137.81
   shb=2120 ehb=2176 ht=2296
   vrs=769 vre=784 vt=800
   hsync=+ vsync=-
edid 2560x102...@60hz
   clock=189.82
   shb=2608 ehb=2720 ht=2968
   vrs=1025 vre=1037 vt=1066
   hsync=+ vsync=-
edid 2048x76...@85hz
   clock=165.39
   shb=2160 ehb=2232 ht=2408
   vrs=769 vre=781 vt=808
   hsync=- vsync=-


vesa flagUlinear|Hlinear
vesa sigVESA 3.0
vesa oemNVIDIA 96.132
vesa vendor NVIDIA Corporation
vesa product   
vesa rev   
vesa cap 8-bit-dac

vesa mem14680064
vesa mode   0x100 640x400x8 m8 packed
vesa mode   0x101 640x480x8 m8 packed
vesa mode   0x102 800x600x4 m4 planar
vesa mode   0x103 800x600x8 m8 packed
vesa mode   0x104 1024x768x4 m4 planar
vesa mode   0x105 1024x768x8 m8 packed
vesa mode   0x106 1280x1024x4 m4 planar
vesa mode   0x107 1280x1024x8 m8 packed
vesa mode   0x10e 320x200x16 r5g6b5 direct
vesa mode   0x10f 320x200x32 x8r8g8b8 direct
vesa mode   0x111 640x480x16 r5g6b5 direct
vesa mode   0x112 640x480x32 x8r8g8b8 direct
vesa mode   0x114 800x600x16 r5g6b5 direct
vesa mode   0x115 800x600x32 x8r8g8b8 direct
vesa mode   0x117 1024x768x16 r5g6b5 direct
vesa mode   0x118 1024x768x32 x8r8g8b8 direct
vesa mode   0x11a 1280x1024x16 r5g6b5 direct
vesa mode   0x11b 1280x1024x32 x8r8g8b8 direct
vesa mode   0x130 320x200x8 m8 packed
vesa mode   0x131 320x400x8 m8 packed
vesa mode   0x132 320x400x16 r5g6b5 direct
vesa mode   0x133 320x400x32 x8r8g8b8 direct
vesa mode   0x134 320x240x8 m8 packed
vesa mode   0x135 320x240x16 r5g6b5 direct
vesa mode   0x136 320x240x32 x8r8g8b8 direct
vesa mode   0x13d 640x400x16 r5g6b5 direct
vesa mode   0x13e 640x400x32 x8r8g8b8 direct
vesa mode   0x145 1600x1200x8 m8 packed
vesa mode   0x146 1600x1200x16 r5g6b5 direct
vesa mode   0x14a 1600x1200x32 x8r8g8b8 direct
vesa mode   0x147 1400x1050x8 m8 packed (unoffered)
vesa mode   0x148 1400x1050x16 r5g6b5 direct (unoffered)
vesa mode   0x149 1400x1050x32 x8r8g8b8 direct (unoffered)
vesa mode   0x152 2048x1536x32 x8r8g8b8 direct (u

Re: [9fans] laptop install woes

[matt]

This is pretty much a show-stopper for me.  I guess it's time to find a new
laptop with supported hardware.

 


or a usb ethernet device

[9fans] Blogger tools

[matt]

When the time came to choose a blogging platform I chose blogger because 
a few other 9fans had done the same and I thought "great, blogger's UI 
is annoying enough that someone will make some plan9 tools"


Two years later, that someone is me.

A bunch of shell scripts that wrap around some python, and my optional 
shell script driven fs


/n/sources/contrib/maht/blogger

You'll need bichued's python which is now a contrib the day after I 
worked out how to install it from source but the product of  that was 
wanting better blogging tools :>


Matt

Re: [9fans] HP: Printing with the Illiterate

[matt]

I  don't trust multifunction devices anyway.

^  "I hope that 
there are sour apples in every bushel."


oops, wrong one

"/Those days are dead and gone and the eulogy was delivered by Perl./"


I did a Markov of Uriel, that was amusing but I didn't save them.

Re: [9fans] Inserting Special Characters into Acme

[matt]

^M inserts a c/r

see /lib/keyboard for the other text entries

the second column is the key sequence, the first uses the modifier key 
(left Alt on my pc)


so, for instance, æ is alt-a e
alt-shift-o c is ©
alt-d g is †



Is there some way to insert special characters into Acme text windows? 
Specifically, I want to do some file editing and put CRLF line endings 
into some files, or around specific lines. Is there a way to do this 
regularly, just typing, I'd also like to know a bulk or Edit command 
to do it, also.


Aaron W. Hsu

Re: [9fans] audio standards -- too many to choose from

[matt]

Flogging this horse still

But as I got my old Edirol UA-3d working with plan9 again (i.e. I 
plugged it in!) I thought I'd see what the USB audio landscape looked 
like, my it has changed.


Has anyone tried one of these with plan9

http://www.roland.com/products/en/UA-101/

It also does MIDI which is something else I'd like to play with.

Re: [9fans] pipefrom fun

[matt]

why not use /mail/lib/names.local for the first example?



good point, upon my brief look the answer would be, although I can 
contrive upon boot to use a different file, in the general case, users 
can't edit it.



i haven't read the script, though.

; ls -l  /n/sources/contrib/maht/rc/pipefrom
--rwx--x--x M 675 maht sys 1107 Aug 20 20:50 /n/sources/contrib/maht/rc/pipefrom
 


I fixed that, oops thanks


one thing i've thought would be useful since people mail from
many places with many names is a translation from a set of from
addresses to a mailbox name so that, e.g. the ned f command doesn't
end up creating a bunch of folders for the same person.
 


I'll consider that when I get round to pipeto

Re: [9fans] pipefrom fun

[matt]

Russ Cox wrote:


pipefrom is too late to rewrite outgoing addresses,
because marshal has already written the To:


I submitted a patch for marshal to do the From: part but was told I 
should use pipefrom instead. I'll stick a sed in the send see how that 
works out :>



line with the local address.  Your post says
   To: 9f...@steponnopets.net
 


dammit, I obviously had missed that when I was testing it


You can create /mail/box/$user/names
to get aliases that won't go out.

http://9fans.net/archive/2004/01/530
http://9fans.net/archive/2004/01/533
http://9fans.net/archive/2004/04/99  # ,s/%/@/g I think


 


Thanks I'll give those a read

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 via QEMU

[matt]

you can configure Qemu to use the host console as the guest serial console

Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso

[matt]

the best way to remove 9load is to make Plan 9 grub-bootable.
 


I don't know much about this subject but I already boot Plan9 using grub.

You mean something more specific than chainloading I presume.

Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso

[matt]

Venkatesh Srinivas wrote:


On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 4:54 AM, hiro<23h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
 


perhaps we should try to boot plan 9 from a linux kernel? Sounds great to me...

this probably makes me a troll...

   



I hear ron minnich did that with his lguest port. Does that make him a troll?

-- vs

 


yes, he got us interested in something vicariously and then cast it aside :)

What you gonna do when MS knocks on the door for their FAT patent 
license fee


http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/02/microsoft-sues-tomtom-over-fat-patents-in-linux-based-device.ars 



though maybe the inability to do fat32 will save you.

Editing plan9.ini on dos has saved me more than once, but back when I 
was using a floppy (a BSDi labelled one at that)  and its small size has 
also hurt me before now too.


I like the sound of the sector 1 idea, I'm sure making a tool to r/w it 
in Linux / whatever can't be hard.

Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso

[matt]

erik quanstrom wrote:


i love it.  we have complaining that fat doesn't do more
than 8.3 and trolling that there's a patent liability for
doing more than 8.3 within 24 hrs.
 


thanks but I'm not trolling, not complaining


just to be clear.  fat itself is not patented.  just some
particular aspects of a 8.3 workaround.

 


though maybe the inability to do fat32 will save you.
   



dossrv and 9load both read fat32.
 


I was refering to format not dossrv

 BUGS
 Format can create FAT12 and FAT16 file systems, but not
 FAT32 file systems.  The boot block can only read from FAT12
 and FAT16 file systems.

 

I like the sound of the sector 1 idea, I'm sure making a tool to r/w it 
in Linux / whatever can't be hard.
   



i think that's the point of using fat.  no tools required.
 

No tools except a second OS installed on your machine / one you can plug 
your disk in to



you're already in a pickle if you've gotten to this point.
consider the acer inspire machine this week that 
 

but as you say here, if you're having trouble, you need something to 
help you. The great help you've been giving people here was via iso files


Anyway, there are good arguments on both sides. There's only one way to 
solve this :


FIGHT

[9fans] walk updated, earth shatters

[matt]

/n/sources/contrib/maht/walk.c

I adapted Dan's walk to add some options

-t : print trailing slashes on directories
-p : only print path (directory) names  # -d was taken
-f : only print file names

If -p and -f are given, all output is supressed but the walk still happens.

Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso

[matt]

To further report the machine seems to be running after installation 
quite "snappily" though I seem to have messed something up and get a 
lot of messages about failed venti writes, due to a lack of a connection.






venti=/dev/sdC0/venti
or
venti=#S/sdC0/venti

in plan9.ini
not sure which is best, I have the former and it works but the latter 
was already in my plan9.ini and that didn't work but that might be 
something else and I've never experimented after it worked :)

Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso

[matt]

Tim Newsham wrote:



You could just dd or rawrite from windows, as well.


iirc you need to be an administrator and can turn on raw disk access, 
for which you get v. scary dialog boxes warning you not to do it


that was on xp, I expect newer trash will be the same / worse

Re: [9fans] walk updated, earth shatters

[matt]

erik quanstrom wrote:


sounds familiar.  i haven't needed an analog
to your -f option yet since the most common
use is
grep -n pattern `{find /sys/src/|grep '\.[chys]$'

 


I changed it to do this :

chmod 550 `{walk -p}
chmod -w `{walk -f}

Re: [9fans] scheme plan 9

[matt]

number of schemes > 4

http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Contrib_index/

maybe one is what you are looking for

there is also a gsoc project, search 9fans for more details 


http://9fans.net/archive/



xiangyu wrote:


HI,everyone:
  Has anyone ported scheme into plan 9 ? or is there some scheme
implementation  existence on plan 9 ? i want to learn SCIP
recently ,but i can't find a scheme in plan 9 . so  ask ..
looking forward for the answer as soon as possible...
thanks first.

 

Re: [9fans] Interested in improving networking in Plan 9

[matt]

Oh I don't know Shoehorning a DB interface into a FS
interface doesn't feel right but stranger things have
happened.

 

I've done it a few ways. echo commit > /n/db/0/ctl is kind of where one 
ends up


for my limbo postgres module I never got round to the fs part. i just 
wrap the sql bits in their own adt

Re: [9fans] Petabytes on a budget: JBODs + Linux + JFS

[matt]

I concur with Erik, I specced out a 20tb server earlier this year, 
matching the throughputs hits you in the wallet.


I'm amazed they are using pci-e 1x , it's kind of naive

see what the guy from sun says

http://www.c0t0d0s0.org/archives/5899-Some-perspective-to-this-DIY-storage-server-mentioned-at-Storagemojo.html

Re: [9fans] "Blocks" in C

[matt]

I could be wrong, but I feel like you're not really interested in 
entertaining that this idea could be useful, but more interested in 
shooting it down.  That's fine, people do that all the time.  People 
are *constantly* saying Plan 9 is a huge waste of time too.  And if 
you count the number of actual users, they're probably right.



using plan9 as a stick to beat one of us with hurts us all

Re: [9fans] Installer error (not supposed to happen)

[matt]

Is there anything I can do to get around this or a possible fix to
test?  

run that portion of the installer manually, and don't perform the test, 
they are only shell scripts


if you have a plan9 already, you can roll your own installer

my efforts documented here

http://maht0x0r.blogspot.com/2007/11/roll-your-own-plan9-iso.html
http://maht0x0r.blogspot.com/2007/10/roll-your-own-plan-9.html

Re: [9fans] awk help; not plan9 matter

[matt]

sed 's/^([^ ]+ +)([^ ]+)/\1HELL/'


Hello,

simple task.
I want to change the 2nd field on each line of a file, but preserve
the spacing of the lines.

If I do
 awk '{$2="hell"; print}' file
the field gets changed, but all the spacing of the lines is gone; i.e.
any space is now just ' ' like this:
1  3 4   8
changes to
1 hell 4 8
while I need
1  hell 4   8.

Any help?
Thanks
Ruda

 

Re: [9fans] awk help; not plan9 matter

[matt]

awk '{a=$2; sub(a, "hell"); print}' file

also works if it contains no regex special chars 


this seems to do the trick otherwise

awk ' { p=substr($0, index($0, " ")); split(p, a, "[^ ]"); sub(/ +[^ ]+/, "", p); print 
$1 a[1] "hell" p} '



Rudolf Sykora wrote:


Hello,

simple task.
I want to change the 2nd field on each line of a file, but preserve
the spacing of the lines.

If I do
 awk '{$2="hell"; print}' file
the field gets changed, but all the spacing of the lines is gone; i.e.
any space is now just ' ' like this:
1  3 4   8
changes to
1 hell 4 8
while I need
1  hell 4   8.

Any help?
Thanks
Ruda

 

Re: [9fans] fun quote

[matt]

look who's trolling now :)


i don't know how ingo managed to put his
finger on so many reasons i enjoy plan 9
by counterexample.

Linux is a 18+ years old kernel, there's not that
many easy projects left in it anymore :-/ Core kernel
features that look basic and which are not in Linux
yet often turn out to be not that simple.
-- Ingo Molnar

- erik

 

Re: [9fans] Petabytes on a budget: JBODs + Linux + JFS

[matt]

storage vendors have a credibility problem.  i think the big
storage vendors, as referenced in the op, sell you on many
things you don't need for much more than one has to spend.
 


I went to a product demo from http://www.isilon.com/

They make a filesystem that spans multiple machines. They split the data 
into 128k blocks and then duplicate store them across your RAIDs. They 
claim over 80% utilisation rather than the more usual 50% of mirroring


http://www.isilon.com/products/OneFS.php

I'm no expert but after reading a bit of Shannon when I got back I found 
it hard to believe their claims but they have great market penetration 
because you just stick another multi Tb server in the rack and it adds 
itself to the array.


All I kept thinking was "you want $100k for 25tb of aoe and cwfs, get 
out of it!"

[9fans] more on the history of recursion

[matt]

http://www.paulgraham.com/mcilroy.html

Re: [9fans] bluetooth

[matt]

you could just set the mtime to the time of the last successful 
operation on that device



What do you mean exactly by "sees"? ...
 


all devices that are listening on inquiry scan channels and respond to
inquiry requests.
   



It looks like your requirement might be satisfied by one or
the other of these things in the /net/bt/devices record:

- a discoverable (ie "responded to most recent inquiry") flag
- a timestamp for last inquiry response received (1 second resolution?)

I'm reluctant to remove devices altogether when they don't
respond to inquiry, because it may still be possible to
connect to a non-discoverable device by paging its address.


 

Re: [9fans] 9vx is really excellent, link it on the bell-labs pages?

[matt]

I've had "/bin/rc: not found" twice from Qemu with clean shutdowns

I run it in with -snapshot now and do manual commits (or rather, I did 
before I went to back to dedicated hardware)


My drawterm also pops out of existence sometimes when I'm using Acme.
If I restart it and open the same file, the same thing happens.
If I open a difference file for a while and go back it works fine.

I can't fathom how to reproduce it so I've never reported it and hope it 
is somehow Linux' fault. It also crashes with an assert in X11 code one 
in ten times at startup [but not when you do while() drawterm ... && 
sleep 1] (tip don't do that if you like your X session as I just found 
out !)




On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 07:45:17 -0700
David Leimbach  wrote:

 


I think it's officially a port of Plan 9's kernel to the vx32 stuff, so it's
not precisely the same as running a Plan 9 box natively, or in another
emulator, but it is indeed quite a feat, and "close enough" that most people
won't notice.
Personally, I'd love to be able to completely replace drawterm with 9vx, but
for some reason I still have a little trouble with that setup (in fact I've
not finished setting up my CPUFSAUTH server yet, so really I'm the reason
for that).
   



Running 9vx instances as Plan 9 terminals fits better with the Plan 9
way than running Drawterm, aye.  :) I'd like to but I use Rio's hold
feature for making quick notes all the time, notes which I need to
have around for a few days.  I don't think I'll be using 9vx for
terminal work until at least 6 months after I hear the last word about
it crashing.

Now 9vx for CPU work; that's another matter.  That could very well
work better for me than my present QEmu-based CPU server, perhaps with
a QEmu-based file server.  OTOH I'd still need a QEmu-based terminal
server sort of wierd thing to use with drawterm, which leaves me
pondering the port assignments if not the overall logic of the
setup  Hmm!  :)

Anyway, I think 9vx is a great thing too, despite the occasional
crash.  As someone posted a week or two ago it even works well for
testing many kernel changes, having minimal boot-up time.  As to
changing the Plan 9 homepage, that may be a difficult matter.  The
wiki seems largely kept up to date, but the homepage and recommended
reading not so much.

 


Another interesting project would be an Inferno based drawterm :-)... but
I'd be lying if I said I had any time for that kind of fun.
   



 

Re: [9fans] 9vx is really excellent, link it on the bell-labs pages?

[matt]

I've had "/bin/rc: not found" twice from Qemu with clean shutdowns


I've also *just* had the disk go bad during the install to a qcow2 disk, 
at 90%+ too :(


(or at least I think it went bad, I had lots of /n/newfs not found based 
errors)


I started over with a raw disk instead

Re: [9fans] handling output

[matt]

Tee part of the POSIX standard

http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/tee.html


hugo rivera wrote:


Great, thanks.
Looks like plan 9 guys have thought about everything useful ☺ (and
that I didn't do my homework).

2009/10/1, roger peppe :
 


2009/10/1 hugo rivera :

   


I've been wondering for a while if there's some way to multiplex (if
 


> this is the correct term) stdout for a given program:


that's what tee does.

e.g.
ls | tee >{grep regexp1 > file1} >{grep regexp2 > file2}


   




 

Re: [9fans] mishandling empty lists - let's fix it

[matt]

sqweek wrote:



fn apply {
   cmd=$1
   shift
   while(! test $1 = :) {
   cmd=($cmd $1)
   shift
   }
   for(i in $*) $cmd <$i
}
# eg: apply grep foo : *.c





that's the beauty of the rc shell, you can define what you like

fn cat {
   if(~ $#* 0)
   /bin/cat /dev/null
   if not {
  as = ()
  for(a in $*) {
 if(~ $a -)
as = ($as /fd/0)
 if not
as = ($as $a)
  }
  /bin/cat $as
   }
}

now
% echo test | cat
% echo test | cat -
test
%  cat  /lib/words | sed 1q
AAA
%

If your shell programs are defeated by unexpected empty lists I suggest 
you write better shell programs :)

Re: [9fans] mishandling empty lists - let's fix it

[matt]

You can build this whole dream using plan9 and show the world, you don't 
have to rewrite any of the utilities, just shape the calling convention 
to your liking.
I bet you could even find the pattern and wrap the whole lot in a meta 
script, maybe even utilise an FS



fn mkdir {
   if(! ~ $#* 0)
  /bin/mkdir $*
ifs = '
'
   m = `{read}
while(! ~ $#m 0) {
 ifs = ' '
 p = `{echo -n $m}
/bin/mkdir $p
 ifs='
'
 m = `{read}
   }
}

with no newlines in directory names


*On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 2:04 PM, John Stalker  wrote:

 


`cat' would concatenate 0 files, i.e. ouptut nothing,
   



cat would copy stdin to stdout

 


`chmod 755' would set the permissions of no files to 755,
   



would read a list of files from stdin and change the modes

 


`cp foo/' would move no files to the directory foo,
   


would read a list of files from stdin and copy them.

 


`df' would show free disk space for no filesystems,
   


would read a list of file system names and df them.

 


`kill' would stop no processes,
   


would read a list of pids in and stop them.

 


`ln foo/' would hardlink no files into the directory foo,
   


would read a list of filenames in and ln them

 


`ls' would list no files (you would use `ls .' for the usual case),
   


would read a list of file names in and ls them.

 


`mkdir' would create no directories,
   


would read a list of file names in and mkdir them (I could really use this one)

 


`mv foo/' would move no files into the directory foo,
   


would read a list of file names in and mv them

 


`ps -U' would show no users' processes,
   


would read a list of user names in and ps them

 


`rm' would remove no files,
   


would read a list of file names in and rm them

 


and `sh' would execute no scripts in the Bourne shell.
   



would read a set of commands from stdin and ... oh wait it does this.

I prefer my version to your versions. I can see uses for them already.

ron

 

Re: [9fans] android hacking?

[matt]

Tim Newsham wrote:


Anyone playing with android phones?



I have a G1 dev but I've not written a single line of code for it

You didn't mention the camera, I try not to !

What would be amazing would be attaching it via USB and importing its 
/net (or some other way of turning it into a 3G modem for plan9)

Re: [9fans] android hacking?

[matt]

hiro wrote:


What would be amazing would be attaching it via USB and importing its /net
(or some other way of turning it into a 3G modem for plan9)
   



Is there more about it than compiling inferno and simply exporting that device?

 


I'm sure that would be great, drop me an email when it's finished :)

Re: [9fans] android hacking?

[matt]

Anthony Sorace wrote:


as i understand it, "proper" android stuff is meant to be in their
java flavor. you can load C programs, 



http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2009/06/introducing-android-scripting.html


http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/android-barcode-scanner/

Just as a proof-of-concept, here’s a barcode scanner written in six 
lines of Python code:


import android
droid = android.Android()
code = droid.scanBarcode()
isbn = int(code['result']['SCAN_RESULT'])
url = “http://books.google.com?q=%d” % isbn
droid.startActivity(’android.intent.action.VIEW’, url)

Re: [9fans] android hacking?

[matt]

hiro wrote:


Is the usb port speaking the standard usb storage language?

 


yes, to the SD card, no idea if you can do anything else with it

Re: [9fans] Barrelfish

[matt]

The  misinterpretation of Moore's Law is to blame here, of course: Moore
is a smart guy and he was talking about transistor density, but pop culture
made is sound like he was talking speed up. For some time the two were
in lock-step. Not anymore.
 

I ran the numbers the other day based on sped doubles every 2 years, a 
60Mhz Pentium would be running 16Ghz by now

I think it was the 1ghz that should be 35ghz

Re: [9fans] Barrelfish

[matt]

erik quanstrom wrote:



you motivated me to find my copy of _high speed
semiconductor devices_, s.m. sze, ed., 1990.

 


which motivated me to dig out the post I made elsewhere :

"Moore's law doesn't say anything about speed or power. It says 
manufacturing costs will lower from technological improvements such that 
the reasonably priced transistor count in an IC will double every 2 years.


And here's a pretty graph 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Transistor_Count_and_Moore%27s_Law_-_2008.svg


The misunderstanding makes people who say such twaddle as "Moore's Law, 
the founding axiom behind Intel, that chips get exponentially faster".


If we pretend that 2 years = double speed then roughly :
The 1993 66Mhz P1 would now be running at 16.9Ghz
The 1995 200Mhz Pentium now would be 25.6Ghz
The 1997 300Mhz Pentium now would be 19.2Ghz
The 1999 500Mhz Pentium now would be 16Ghz
The 2000 1.3Ghz Pentium now would be 20Ghz
The 2002 2.2Ghz Pentium would now be 35Ghz
The 2002 3.06Ghz Pentium would be going on 48Ghz by Xmas

If you plot speed vs year for Pentiums you get two straight lines with a 
change in gradient in 1999 with the introduction of the P4"

Re: [9fans] Barrelfish

[matt]

Sam Watkins wrote:


I calculated roughly that encoding a 2-hour video could be parallelized by a
factor of perhaps 20 trillion, using pipelining and divide-and-conquer, with a
longest path length of 1 operations in series.  Such a system running at
1Ghz could encode a single 2-hour video in 1/10 second (latency), or 2
billion hours of video per second (throughput).


 

I know you are using video / audio encoding as an example and there are 
probably datasets that make sense but in this case, what use is it?


You can't watch 2 hours of video per second and you can't write it to 
disk fast enough to empty the pipeline. So you'll process all the video 
and then sit there keeping it powered while you wait to do something 
with it. I suppose you could keep filtering it.


Add into that the datarate of full 10 bit uncompressed 1920x1080/60i HD 
is 932Mbit so your 1Ghz clockspeed might not be fast enough to play it :)


You've got to feed in 2 hours of source material - 820Gb per stream, how?

Once you have your uncompressed stream, MPEG-2 encoding requires seeking 
through the time dimension with keyframes every n frames and out of 
order macro blocks, so we have to wait for n frames to be composited. 
For the best quality the datarate is unconstrained on the first 
processing run and then macro blocks best-fitted and re-ordered on the 
second to match the desired output datarate, but again, this is n frames 
at a time.


Amdahl is punching you in the face every time you say "see, it's easy".

Re: [9fans] Barrelfish

[matt]

Eris Discordia wrote:


"Moore's law doesn't say anything about speed or power.



But why'd you assume "people in the wrong" (w.r.t. their understanding 
of Moore's law) would measure "speed" in gigahertz rather than MIPS or 
FLOPS?



because that's what the discussion I was having was about

Re: [9fans] Barrelfish

[matt]

this is quite an astounding thread.  you brought
up clock speed doubling and now refute yourself.

i just noted that 48ghz is not possible with silicon
non-quantium effect tech.

- erik

 

I think I've been misunderstood, I wasn't asserting the clock speed 
increase in the first place, I was hoping to demonstrate what would have 
happened if Moore's law was the often misquoted "speed doubles every 2 
years" when measured in Ghz (not flops as noted by Eris)

Re: [9fans] Barrelfish

[matt]

Sorry to kick this rotting horse but I just got back

 


You've got to feed in 2 hours of source material - 820Gb per stream, how?
   



I suppose some sort of parallel bus of wires or optic fibres.  


we call that "hand waving"


If I have
massively parallel processing I would want massively parallel IO to go with it.
I.e. something like "read data starting from here" -> "here it is streaming one
megabit in parallel down the bus at 1Ghz over 1 million channels"
 


While riding a unicorn


would take advantage of perhaps 720 "cores" to encode a two hour video in 10
second chunks with barely any Ahmdal effects,
 


This 720Gbit storage device sounds pretty good.


People do this stuff every day.
Have you heard of a render-farm?
 

Your sarcasm is cute. Have you used a render farm ? You're right that 
rendering on a few cores is CPU bound. But you've moved the goalposts by 
100,000,000 orders of magnitude.


We have this comic on the wall with "programmer|compiling" replaced with 
"animator|rendering"


http://xkcd.com/303/

And there's a standing order that you can't have sex unless you're 
rendering.



I'm not sure why I'm wasting time writing about this, it's obvious anyway.
 


Yeah, that must be why everyone is rendering Imax movies in a few seconds.

We can all imagine a place where computation is instant and we just say 
"computer! run Sherlock Holmes on the Holodeck from where we left off, 
but this time give it a Wild West theme".

[9fans] I made it home

[matt]

Hi, I've been awake 40 hours or so now but I'm not hallucinating enough 
for my liking just yet but at leas the coffee tastes good here!


IWP9 was fab, a big thank you to everyone involved, attending, watching 
and those disappointed not to be there.
Sorry to those we managed to lose on Saturday, we all thought the other 
had the necessary cell phone nos!


Thanks to Ian for recommending The Grit, great food & delicious vegan 
cake, we even went back for breakfast.


Atlanta Fry's was a geek grotto, I half wish I'd had some money left 
(the other half is glad not to have a bag full of more gadgets to get 
round to playing with!).


Atlanta was a bit of a contrast after Athens, I'm glad I was only there 
2 nights. Even then my fake southern accent came in handy for the 
occasions I got asked the time while walking around alone in the dark. 
Lone white man is more usually known as Mark I think.


Oh how I missed having a smartphone on me with a data connection all the 
time.


Here's some links from various conversations.

* Boeing's passenger Wifi <> Pilot fly-by-wire bridge
http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2008/01/dreamliner_security

* Apple's flash ram keyboard exploit
http://www.digitalsociety.org/2009/08/apple-keyboards-hacked-and-possessed/

* Cyanide in Apple seeds
http://www.snopes.com/food/warnings/apples.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanide

* // in URIS
http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1738.html

says the BNF for http URL's is

; HTTP

httpurl= "http://"; hostport [ "/" hpath [ "?" search ]]
hpath  = hsegment *[ "/" hsegment ]
hsegment   = *[ uchar | ";" | ":" | "@" | "&" | "=" ]
search = *[ uchar | ";" | ":" | "@" | "&" | "=" ]

Contrary to my assertion and expectation Apache  maps 
http://www.maht0x0r.net//i.php on to document_root/i.php
Personally, I think this is a bug from mapping URIs to filenames, it 
should be 404. IE used to strip them out before sending the request but 
that is no longer the case (which is why it came up)


Section 3.3 of the RFC says

http://:/?

 is an HTTP selector


* James Hamilton's Blog
James is "Vice President and Distinguished Engineer" at Amazon Web 
Services, formerly with 12 years at Microsoft and was a driving force 
behind the data centre in a shipping container idea and previous to that 
did 12 years at IBM. Ok a man that did SQL Server 7.0, Server-Side XML 
and IBM's C++ compiler might not be top of everyone's reading list but 
the reason I mentioned him at the time was his advocacy of ARM in the 
Datacentre


http://perspectives.mvdirona.com/2009/09/07/LinuxApacheOnARMProcessors.aspx

and the skinny on the next breed of ARMs

http://perspectives.mvdirona.com/default,date,2009-09-16.aspx



See you next year

Maht

Re: [9fans] [9ans] Question about network protocols

[matt]

ty ty wrote:


i haven't found any with grep


I find this quite good for browsing the source in a web browser

http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/?v=PLAN9

ipattach is referenced here

http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/ident?v=PLAN9;i=ipattach

Re: [9fans] hoc's behaviour, unary operators

[matt]

i'll leave as an excersize why k&r thought that making --
and ++ tokens was worth while.

 

did DEC make them do it so they could issue trademark infringement 
lawsuits for copying the instruction mnemonic?

Re: [9fans] dtrace for plan 9

[matt]

/me imagines it goes like this :

hmm, I'm always writing the similar debugging code for the kernel, I 
know I'll write a bit of custom code.


... some time later 

hmm, I'm always writing the similar post processing scripts, I know I'll 
add a callback before each print

Re: [9fans] instructions to use .eps in troff wanted

[matt]

Rudolf Sykora wrote:


Hello,

is there any good place where I could read how to embed some pictures 
into a troff document?

Preferably a way that works in plan9, too...
I can't find much about it anywhere.
What do you use?

Thanks
Ruda




/n/sources/contrib/maht/ppm2eps/

Re: [9fans] Examples of rc scripts

[matt]

Maurí­cio CA wrote:


Hi, all,

I found 'werc' in a wikipedia link, and used it
as a source for examples of how to use rc. Are there
other places where I can found rc scripts, as well
as other scripts for plan9 tools?

(By the way, do you know how can I attribute a
here document to a variable?)

Thanks,
Maurício


for werc specific rc scripting my project is 
http://code.google.com/p/scrappydog/

sadly the running code is down atm as the machine died.

some other examples of mine

http://plan9.bell-labs.com./sources/contrib/maht/rc/

though I'm sure there are better examples in the other contrib dirs

http://plan9.bell-labs.com./sources/contrib/

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[matt]

I did start work on getting my USB scanner working on plan9.

I have an agfa 1212u which is USB.

I got a USB sniffer for Windows and the SANE code and was going through 
it byte by byte. I had it uploading the firmware and could make the 
scanning arm move.


/n/sources/contrib/maht/spanscan.iso

I think I might even have it doing preview scan but not interpreting the 
data, I forget, it was two years ago.


another one of those things on the list of 'I must go back to that'

If anyone knows of a decent free USB sniffer for Linux / BSD then that 
would help anyone wanting to do this.


Matt

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[matt]

/n/sources/contrib/maht/snapscan.iso

if you didn't work out the typo

Re: [9fans] 9p resource sharing [was: Scanners]

[matt]

erik quanstrom wrote:


On Thu Nov 26 15:36:39 EST 2009, news...@lava.net wrote:
 


or the cannonical example, a hard drive.
 


I intentionally avoided this one because two things that modern
OSs do know how to share (at least a little) are:
  - filesystems
  - printers
   



it is pretty hard to run windows, osx or linux without
a hard drive.
 

I've done Linux over AoE, that was flawless once working. Lack of AoE 
aware installers made it interesting.


Plan9 is a fiddle too

I didn't try the MacOSX or Windows AoE initiators.

You need plenty of Foo to do any of them tbh.

Re: [9fans] 9p resource sharing [was: Scanners]

[matt]

i wasn't talking about aoe.  but since you are, what
exactly is difficult about the plan 9 aoe driver?

- erik

 

the installer, or was last time I looked, I did try to make one but got 
so far and decided on a "better way" which is on my large pile of todo. 
I made a "install to this drive" script that did away with the installer 
completely but I haven't tested it much yet.

Re: [9fans] ideas for helpful system io functions

[matt]

That's not what I meant by joining two fds.

 


back seat coding, nice

Re: [9fans] What do you use plan 9 for?

[matt]

chutsu wrote:


So.. been looking at plan 9, am confused what plan 9 is used for? I
mean I know its a hobbyst sort of OS, but what can you do with it
though?
Can you browse the internet?
Watch videos?
Thanks
Chris

 


Your pre-conceptions are erroneous.

http://9fans.net/

read the man pages & papers

Re: [9fans] faces

[matt]

You can't prove harmlessness in people, hence the joyful collective 
outcry of "all men are potential rapists". It's the halting problem of 
human interaction



Brian! Your computer thinks your face is harmful!

   


The following attachment had content that we can't
prove to be harmless. 
 



I get that a lot...but usually from women :)

BLS


 

Re: [9fans] Just one piece o' help.

[matt]

 


burning CD/DVD
   



Plan 9 has a very elegant approach to burning CDs.  See
cdfs(4) and mk9660(8) for the details.
 


I wrote a wee helper for burning .iso files

http://plan9/bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/maht/rc/iso2cd

/n/sources/contrib/maht/rc/iso2cd

Re: [9fans] Hardware for Plan9

[matt]

I'm running the traditional Ken FS, sans Erik's mods.
 

"sans" is French for "without" hence serif & sans-serif, is that what 
you meant ?

[9fans] Recovering venti arenas using Qemu

[matt]

For Xmas Santa decided I'd been a bad boy and brought me a hard disk
failure.

Little did he know I had been dumping my arenas.

After a few false starts today I finally managed to get to my data

http://maht0x0r.blogspot.com/2010/01/restoring-venti-from-dumped-arenas.html

THANK YOU to everyone concerned :)

matt

if only the burst pipe & broken central heating were so easy to fix!

Re: [9fans] In case anyone worries about block hash collision in venti

[matt]

not only has someone got to find a collision during a tiny timeframe, 
they also have to fit it in 8k

Re: [9fans] pineview atom

[matt]

  it supports 4gb of memory.   
 


of non-ECC memory, so nice terminal, bad server


"the probability of having at least one bit error in 4 gigabyes of 
memory at sea level on planet Earth in 72 hours is over 95%."



http://lambda-diode.com/opinion/ecc-memory

Re: [9fans] problem using a vera font in rio

[matt]

i don't know.  it's not libfreetype.  fontsrv asks the OS X
graphics code to render each glyph into a box and then
concatenates the boxes to make the subfont.
all the text was noticeably lighter (more grey)
than in your screen shot when i put them side by side.
   



this is due to apple's algorithm for rendering glyphs.

I don't know if it is relevant but OSX uses a 1.8 Gamma whereas PC's (& 
TVs) use 2.2

[9fans] % $stem & $target in mk

[matt]

Hi,

crazily I've been using mk to build a website (trying to mimic SSI but 
pre-request)


and I've run into a "shortcoming" with mk

this is something like my mkfile :

---snip---

PAGES =  public_html/index.html public_html/news.html

all:V: $PAGES

nuke:V:
   rm -f $PAGES tmp/*

public_html/index.html: `{cpp -M src/index.html }
   makepage src/`{basename $target}  > $target

public_html/news.html: `{cpp -M src/news.html }
   makepage src/`{basename $target}  > $target


-snip-



Whereas what would make like *much* easier would be if I could do this :

public_html/%.html: `{cpp -M src/%.html }
   makepage src/$stem.html > $target


but mk doesn't expand the % in `{}

Any magic I missed before hacking & slashing /sys/src/cmd/mk  ?

Re: [9fans] % $stem & $target in mk

[matt]

Thanks, this was perfect, as usual. Someone clone Russ please :>


btw. I've done a little  HTTP testing suite (nothing amazing) & popped 
it in sources

I did it in a hurry & didn't package it up

/n/sources/contrib/maht/{httplib.rc tlspipeclient.c dechunk.c 
getuserpasswd.c}


. httplib.rc

GET https://www.rangboom.com/

GET http://slashdot.org/ | dechunk


you choose to include dechunk in your pipeline if you need it (though it 
is idempotent on non-chunked data (modulo speed)
getuserpasswd isn't used by httplib.rc but is handy for getting 
passwords from factoum


it uses tee for logging to testlog in the current dir so watch out for 
that :)


matt



make a script, called mkrules:

#!/bin/rc
for(i in src/*.html)
cpp -M $i | sed 's;^src;public; s;\$O:;:;'

include its output:

<|mkrules

russ



  

Re: [9fans] Goosh

[matt]

I'm astonished and amazed that it  made the front page of /. and top 10 
on Reddit.


Plan 9, where astonishing things for Lunix users are the everyday.

http://9fans.net/archive/2002/11/362

(it's in sources now as /n/sources/contrib/maht/goofs.iso)

Sorry for wasting a bit of bandwidth, but I'm astonished, amazed 
and reminded of BBS days (more than Unix) all at the same time:

http://goosh.org/

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/> ls
web  lucky images wiki clear help
news blogs feeds  open gomore
in   load  video  read place lang
addengine translate ls cd

Thanks,
Roman.



  

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[matt]

Back in March people were trying the EEEPC with slight progress - did 
anyone get any joy there ?



I have a T23 which is a good Plan 9 laptop with Orinoco PCMCIA WiFi, 
though I've not tried the AC97


They are under 200 euros on ebay with 512Mb & 80Gb

1024x768 screen

3 buttons and a nipple not a touchpad

no Windows key :)

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[matt]

3 buttons and a nipple not a touchpad

no Windows key :)



These are concrete assets. 
I know, that's why I reported them. Chording with a touchpad is 
something you could show at a circus.


I'm running low on three button mouses too :(

Re: [9fans] I/O load crashes Qemu

[matt]

I am going to defend QEMU

I've run a Plan 9 auth/cpu server on there for 8 months or so with no 
problems beyond those of my own construction.


I am emulating x86-32 on a pre-VT  Opteron AMD-64 (though I only found 
out about the difference *after* I bought it) and have kqemu.ko loaded, 
I run Debian. My Qemu is 0.9.1 though I used 0.9.0 for a while - I 
upgraded to take advantage of PXE booting in 0.9.1 and compiled it from 
the tar.gz


I've not done much heavy I/O though I have made numerous pdf's with it 
with CGI on httpd. I've also produced my own installer isos with it 
which included plan9.iso & plan9.iso.bz2 in the iso.


I've used it for fancy networking tricks with vde_switch and tap0.

I use qcow images and I think they are sparse files.

I have borked the file system with it, though it was my own fault.


matt

Re: [9fans] OSX Drawterm hangs on close

[matt]

Drawterm everywhere needs to die and be replaced with inferno. The
duplication of bug fixes and efforts is pointless.


I thought we had to replace Inferno with Acme-Sac, I wish you'd make up 
your mind.

Re: [9fans] sad commentary

[matt]

Robert William Fuller wrote:

erik quanstrom wrote:




these are tetonic forces.  there's nothing directly


As a geologist, I can't let this one slip (pun intended.)  It's tectonic.


He might have meant Teutonic

Re: [9fans] sad commentary

[matt]

As a geologist, I can't let this one slip (pun intended.)  It's 
tectonic.


Being of german ancestry, I can't let it slip either..  Maybe Eric 
meant Teutonic?  Either would fit, and neither requries UTF-8 :-)



Dammnit, always wait until you've read the unread

Re: [9fans] acme scrollbar

[matt]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I dislike this idea. I think for most people, most of the time,
the lines acme's working with will fit well within the width of
a window. Yeah, I bet most of us have run into longer lines at
times, but the interface is optimized for the common case. I
wouldn't like to see that go.
  
I'm frequently editing text that line wraps, I think your sample size is 
too small.

Re: [9fans] why not Lvx for Plan 9?

[matt]

Skip Tavakkolian wrote:

 vxlinux under plan9 will be useful, but only to us 9fans.
  

Isn't that good enough reason?

Russ Cox

Linux vx for Plan 9 would help people who prefer to use
Linux but must use Plan 9.  I am sure such people exist,
but I feel no sympathy toward them.  ;-) 



I don't ask for sympathy but having a Linux that ran on Plan 9 would be 
a useful tool. I need to have Gimp knocking about or an IMAP client for 
Gbs of mail.

Do you think the task would be Herculean ?

[9fans] Anatomy of a vblade image

[matt]

I shuold just mail quanstro I guess but maybe someone made a tool

/n/sources/contrib/quanstro/src/vblade

The vblades served by this particular vblade require some magic in the 
first few bytes.

Vblade on other platforms will quite happily serve a bunch of zeros

Anybody got a script for making an empty vlbade image for serving with 
the above vblade ?


Save me making one :)

Matt

Re: [9fans] Anatomy of a vblade image

[matt]

however you can use the -i switch to initialize a blank
file.  (you're free to use a raw disk or partition, too.)

- erik

  

or say "damn, where did my partition table go !"

I can't remember if I lost any work :)

strings /dev/sdC0/plan9 will let me know eventually !

note to self, be more careful when messing around at storage :>


I'm serving drives to WinXP64 via AOE with http://winaoe.org/
I've had a few blue screens but I think they have been caused by the 
server side serving bad data. If the vblade goes away after being 
mounted the NT kernel keeps trying to read it which amounts to waiting 
for network packets to arrive and of course they never do so any NT 
syscalls take forever (though they run eventually). It does come back to 
life even if you vblade a different sized disk.

Re: [9fans] Anatomy of a vblade image

[matt]

erik quanstrom wrote:

I'm serving drives to WinXP64 via AOE with http://winaoe.org/
I've had a few blue screens but I think they have been caused by the 
server side serving bad data. 



what do you mean by "server side"?
  

My dodgy programming :> I'm hacking around in vblade.c
Sorry, I see now I should have made that clear.




it does sounds like the free windows aoe driver
needs to handle the case where storage goes
away more gracefully.  it may be that it is retransmitting
too agressively.

  

I haven't had the ethernet sniffer looking at it


I got my data back btw. I ran the installer and guessed at what I'd told 
fdisk :>

Re: [9fans] Anatomy of a vblade image

[matt]

(In the opposite style to usual, this was meant to go to the list, not 
private :)




i didn't want to sound over-confident.  but vblade
is very simple; i don't see how it could have data-loosing
bugs.  

I can't even remember how I made it blue-screen but I managed it a
couple of times. I think one time was returning the string "hello" to
whatever read requests were made :>


what are you doing with (to) vblade?
  

Trying to do something interesting enough to write a paper for IWP,
I'll get into detail when it works


snoopy's your friend.  you can test just by killing vblade
and watching the packets go by.
  

Wireshark's pretty good too. It even knows how to decode 9p streams.


good deal.  about a year after i wrote vblade, i used it
for a couple of months while i saved up for a stand-alone
aoe target.

:> I'm hoping to get a decent bit of kit together for the office here. I
already boot the Linux terminals from AOE, hope to soon add the Windows
machine.
I built a Plan 9 installer iso that includes aoe & fs as a target but I
haven't managed to get a working Plan 9 system out of it yet - I got a
bit side-tracked :)

In the Linux world kvlade looks the way to go for performance but it
didn't work on AMD64 when I tried it. I guess the Coraid boxes make Plan
9 go fast enough so I just need to stop worrying about it.

m

Re: [9fans] 8 cores

[matt]

nice! whats the status of your port? have an SGI indy (IP22) and would like
to
contribute if i find the time :-)

please put it somewhere!



http://iru.oitobits.net/src/9sgi/
good to know someone's interested besides me and Tim Weiss.

iru
  


Hi, good work

does that mean it works or does that mean it's in progress ?

I see from the mkfile some stuff is commented out so I guess the latter.
I don't have any SGIs (unless you count 1 ps/2 keyboard).

A readme in the folder would be a good idea :)

matt

Re: [9fans] qemu: somebody give bellard a canonical image?

[matt]

Bakul Shah wrote:

On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 08:32:22 PDT "ron minnich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  wrote:
  

so it can go here: http://bellard.org/qemu/download.html

might as well make it available ..



Not sure why qemu/download.html shows so few bootable images.
Another alternative is oszoo.org.  See for instance
http://www.oszoo.org/wiki/index.php/Category:OS_images
Images for a terminal server and a cpu server would be handy.


  
I've just made one, uploading it to my web server now, 100Mb bzipped, 
440Mb sparse, 1Gb raw


I'll mail bellard when it's finished in about an an hour (7KB asymmetric 
DSL sux0rs)

Re: [9fans] qemu: somebody give bellard a canonical image?

[matt]

thanks man. I did not expect this to turn into another debate. I just
did not have the cycles to do it just now.

It will be nice to see plan 9 up there at qemu.org

ron

  
Just so happens I was doing an install on to a 1Gb CF today. I haven't 
done any QEMU specific tweaking for it.

Re: [9fans] Bizarre freeze

[matt]

> Could it be that some disks don't work with DMA on?
Not all compact flash supports DMA

Re: [9fans] Using the Acme Editor

[matt]

That stack has been implemented in vim. There're nearly 500 different 
syntax matching and highlighting schemes for vim, and there's a simple 
language for writing your own schemes. Why not use vi?

To paraphrase Tesla :

If Mr. Edison thought a bit more, he wouldn't have to sweat so much.

Re: [9fans] Using the Acme Editor

[matt]

What's the Plan 9 way of solving that? Trusting the user at the terminal? 


yes, no other things required, you fail (as per usual)

Re: [9fans] Any Brits going to iwp9? ...

[matt]

yes, and "i must sort that out"

-Steve


  



Like wise with the "must sort that out" part

I plan to go via train nottingham - london - paris - italy - greece 
(including a couple of ferries)


Last time I tried to sort it the timetables for Oct. weren't complete  
but it's time to look again now

Re: [9fans] Any Brits going to iwp9? ...

[matt]

I plan to go via train nottingham - london - paris - italy - greece 
(including a couple of ferries)


Last time I tried to sort it the timetables for Oct. weren't complete  
but it's time to look again now


naturally, 5 mins after I sent this I got told about a feature film were 
shooting up until the Thursday so it looks like I'll be flying out last 
minute, hopefully I'll catch the train back.


dammit !!

Re: [9fans] Where to find plan9

[matt]

http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/

says it doesn't even exist !

though there is an A record in my DNS for it

9fans.net  is unreachable from Riyadh.. but then 
again a lot of places are unreacable from Riyadh. :(


John


On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 7:19 PM, Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:


google should be enough...

http://9fans.net should be the result of your search...

But then... Am I the only one unable to reach 9fans.net
?

cheers!

On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Riza Dindir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> Where can we find the plan9 distro?
>
> Regards,
> rd
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] bug in rio: unhiding deleted windows

[matt]

i'm not sure why you can't have a dedicated fileserver.
i put mine original fs together for $12.95.  this fs is still
running, i just wanted to put together a diskless fs.
  


Electricity is 15p per KwHour round here

300w

echo 'scale=3; 0.15 * 0.3 * 25 * 365' | bc

410.625 pounds per year

60w

82.125 pounds per year

Re: [9fans] Are there any blind users of Plan 9?

[matt]

why not just ssh into plan9 and use that ?


btw. no IWP for me :(

bugger bugger bollocks

Re: [9fans] Query on Venti access

[matt]

The most comprehensive man pages are on swtch.com

Venti uses a simple protocol, the C library is described here : 
http://swtch.com/plan9port/man/man3/venti.html


And the source here :
http://swtch.com/usr/local/plan9/src/libventi/

this is the intro

http://swtch.com/plan9port/man/man7/venti.html

mjl already did a client in Limbo so it is obviously possible :)


If this is possible I plan to read up extensively on Venti and educate
myself in this direction.

Regards,
Anoop


  

[9fans] tracing & bricking the e1000e on Linux

[matt]

Sorry if I got this wrong but iirc there was a discussion re. tracing 
the kernel


ftrace on Linux got it very wrong and was bricking the Intel e1000e's

http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/304105/d32d3f1f921d9b73/


Loadable modules part of the problem

Re: [9fans] @{cd ...} breaks completion with ctrl-f/ins; help needed

[matt]

Rudolf Sykora wrote:

> I really can't live without the completion function...


how come? I've *never* used it

Re: [9fans] photos of iwp9

[matt]

sqweek wrote:

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Kernel Panic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/cinap_lenrek/photos/iwp9.2008/dscn0195.jpg



 I have this sudden impulse to start using abaco...
-sqweek


  

mothra is your friend :>

Re: [9fans] Another observation

[matt]

I don't have the slightest clue what you mean, and tbh. I'm not that 
interested ;)