On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 11:09 PM, Robert Bradshaw <rober...@math.washington.edu> wrote: > On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Viviane Pons <vivianep...@gmail.com> wrote: >> I feel this is going nowhere... >> >> We should start with the assumption we all agree on something: we want the >> sage mailing list to be place where no one is bullied and where we can >> express our different point of views safely and with respect. I think we all >> want that whether we voted yes or no to the code of conduct itself. It is a >> sensitive matter because if we don't feel we have this, then it can affect >> our involvement into the project itself. >> >> I think everyone's actions so far toward the code of conduct has been >> motivated by this goal, on both side. >> >> I don't know who wrote the code of conduct that was proposed and, honestly, >> I don't really care. It was maybe a mistake to do it this way and I agree >> that Vincent's proposal to work on it on a wiki is better. But I don't think >> they did it with bad intentions. And seeing how things are now, I understand >> they don't want to say anything and to defend themselves against being a >> conspiracy, a secret police or something. >> >> Rather than pointing fingers on how things should have been done, and why >> were they done this way... I think we should try to find a solution to our >> problem which is the goal I stated: the sage mailing list to be place where >> no one is bullied and where we can express our different point of views >> safely and with respect. (Of course, this will never be perfect, the idea is >> to make our best) >> >> Some of us thought a code of conduct will help to reach this goal and there >> was a big debate on the first thread about this very question. There was a >> vote and even though the legitimacy of the vote is contested, it still says >> something: there are a quite a bunch of people (a majority of the voters) >> who think things are not good enough the way they are and wanted a code of >> conduct. >> >> So now, in the spirit of a consensus, what should we do? Keeping the code of >> conduct as it is is not good, it divides the community and some people feel >> excluded and disagree with the process. Leaving things as they were is not >> good either, as some people expressed in a vote that they wanted a change >> and they might complain if the vote is ignored (and once again, it's because >> they feel sage would be a better and safer place with the code). For the >> same reason, voting again on the same question is not good, as whatever the >> result is, some people will feel excluded. > > +1 for focusing on what to do in the future, rather than mistakes made > in the past. > >> Is it possible to find a compromise on which people are mostly ok? For >> example, I proposed to have some "guidelines" instead of an actual code. > > I, personally, would be in favor of this, which wasn't really an > option in the vote (which felt like a false dilemma between accept the > status quo and accept that code). > >> And Vincent proposed to work on a wiki to make a better text. >> >> Also, the process itself was an issue. To those who contest the vote: in >> what condition would you accept whatever the result is? What would you >> propose to do? > > Consensus is better than voting, but is sometimes hard to find when > there is a bimodal (or more) distribution of opinions. I'd take the > time to craft a better text, then put it up for another vote. (Despite > the fact that open source projects are not democracies, it's hard to > assign weights...so I don't know any better).
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