On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 10:12 AM tobia...@gmx.de <tobiasd...@gmx.de> wrote:
> At first I was very enthusiastic about this proposed policy, but after > thinking about this for a bit I'm no longer convinced this is a good idea. > > First of all, the policy sets out to solve the case "where there is a > general consensus, but one person (or a few people) disagree". In my > experience, this case is not a problem. All the examples mentioned so far > (and the few other examples I'm aware of), have usually one positive > reviewer and one negative review. This is not a general consensus. The > problem is more that a general consensus cannot be reached. Another aspect > of the issue is that usually only a very small group of 2 to 3 people is > involved in discussing the PR, which perhaps not surprisingly then more > easily results in a state where all arguments have been exchanged without > finding a solution satisfying everyone. > For example, with the proposed policy, Dima and me would have outvoted > Matthias in https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/35403. But this PR was > largely improved by the discussion on the mailing list (that it is still > not clear how to proceed with this PR is another sad story). > > In light of this, I would like to propose to change the policy proposal to > an automatic system that draws more attention to the PR, with the hope that > new people bring new input and ideas, which then resolves the conflict in a > natural way. The proposal is something along the following: if a PR is say > a week in the "disputed state" as defined above by Kwankyu, both parties > write a short statement of why they think it should or should not be > merged, and this summary is then posted to the mailing list. Not to start a > voting, but to raise awareness and invite other devs to join the > discussion. Similar calls for PR reviews are not uncommon on the mailing > list, so I don't think it would annoy subscribers too much. > > Finally, I think Dima raises a very important point. Most of the > discussions in these "disputed PRs" are a result of a lack of a common > vision for the project and agreement on what projects to work on. It would > be immensely more productive to have a general discussion e.g. about how to > proceed with sage-the-distribution (replace it?, with what?, how to sunset > it? reduce it? enlarge it?). As an example, I think conda is a good > candidate to replace sage-the-distribution and thus naturally open PRs with > changes in that direction. But if you don't agree with this general > direction, it's easy to find these changes annoying. On the other hand, if > there would be an agreement that conda was a nice experiment that we don't > want to continue, then I'm happy to delete it completely. But instead of a > general direction, we have this situation where every developer is having > their own ideas and little projects that they are working on, and that are > bound to step on toes of others. > Thank you for this. It seems to me to be a reasonable explanation of what's going on. One question: Dima has said he is "... trying to pull the ship into the sea of normal Python packages...". Isn't this consistent with your goal that "conda is a good candidate" for SageMath distribution? > > On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 7:20:12 AM UTC+8 Kwankyu Lee wrote: > >> I think there needs to be a clear indication that a voting period is >> active (and when it closes). Perhaps we can use a PR label "s: voting" or >> "s: needs votes"? >> >> >> If we do not want to invent a new label, we may add "s: needs review", >> "s: needs work", "s:needs info" altogether to get attention. >> >> Then the voting period starts when the three labels are added. >> >> I suggest to end the voting when a week has passed after the last vote >> was casted. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-devel" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/c602514f-b7a1-4afc-bb04-cdde37b4a879n%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/c602514f-b7a1-4afc-bb04-cdde37b4a879n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAEQuuAVc5UpovVoWz6eFp%3DvDCcihYhW%3Dtbx054_0RMvLJnQZAg%40mail.gmail.com.
