On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 5:20 PM William Stein <wst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, > > Should we specify anything about who is eligible to vote? At least > some guidance might be useful, since you are strongly encouraging > people to be involved, and some people might wonder whether or not > they should vote. > > "Subscribed to sage-devel" might not be a good criteria. For example, > Harald Schilly has been the webmaster of Sage since 2007 and likely > cares about this switch since it can impact him, but I don't think he > reads sage-devel. > Of course, this is a broader question related to Sage's governance, but one objective criterion I can think of would be "ever made a code contribution to Sage." David > -- William > > On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 2:10 PM David Roe <roed.m...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Given that we've had far more interest in Github than Gitlab, and that > it's a lot easier to transfer from Github to Gitlab later, I agree with > Dima that the vote should be on just the question of whether to move to > Github. Moreover, John Palmieri made a convincing argument (to me at > least) that we should not add in an extra 2/3 requirement for this vote > specifically (the requirement for such a threshold should be part of a > larger discussion on Sage's governance). Finally, since we're just voting > on trac vs github I don't think there's a need to draw out the discussion > until October 1, and several people (William and Dima) have made arguments > for making a decision more quickly. Of course, discussion can continue in > parallel with voting, and people are able to change their votes if they're > convinced to do so. > > > > We still need to finish the comparison of trac and github, the > description of a github Sage workflow, and draft an email announcing a > vote. I propose sending versions of the following emails to sage-devel on > Wednesday (two days from now), including starting a new discussion thread > (since the title of this one no longer holds: we are not discussing an > incremental move to github anymore). > > David > > > > > > Dear Sage developers, > > Following extensive discussion, both recently (prompted by issues > upgrading the trac server) and over the last decade, we are calling a vote > on switching Sage development from Trac to Github. We've created a summary > of the pros and cons of each system, a description of the development model > to be used on github, and a trac ticket for coordinating work on the > transition.. More work will need to be done to carry out the actual > transition once voting is complete. > > > > The voting will last until noon Eastern time on Wednesday, October 5. > Please use this thread only for sending votes, to make it easier to count > them afterward; there is a parallel thread where you can make arguments in > favor of either system. Finally, I will close with a plea to be involved > in this vote and discussion even if you are not a core Sage developer. By > definition, core Sage developers have become comfortable with trac, and I > think that one of the major arguments in favor of github is that it will > help bring in new contributors who are not familiar with Sage's development > workfow. > > > > > > Dear Sage developers, > > As announced in a parallel thread, we are voting to move Sage > development from Trac to Github. Several of us have created a wiki page > attempting to summarize arguments in favor of each system, and this thread > can serve as a space for people to make clear their own reasoning for > favoring one option over the other. This discussion has gotten heated at > times, so remember to be considerate, respectful and polite: we are all > aiming to make Sage better. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 10:47 AM Dima Pasechnik <dimp...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 19 Sep 2022, 15:35 William Stein, <wst...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> Here is a 3-minute section of a PyCon 2022 keynote by the steering > >>> council discussing migration of CPython to GitHub: > >>> > >>> https://youtu.be/m2R5shF1pLc?t=535 > >>> > >>> In particular, they talk about how much effort went into the > >>> migration, and just how difficult it was, and how GitHub was > >>> directly involved with supporting their effort. It took nearly 7 > >>> years (!) from when the plan was first created in 2015: > >>> > >>> https://peps.python.org/pep-0512/ > >>> > >>> This Python PEP is itself pretty interesting, e.g., it outlines why > >>> they chose GitHub or GitLab. > >> > >> > >> I had a quick look, and noted that in this PEP they as well moved from > mercurial to git, set up a number of bots (probably not needed for us), set > up testing infrastructure. > >> All of this, except bots, is already done for us > >> > >> And in few places they described features they needed to put extra > effort in, while they are now in GitHub already. > >> So it's much less work for us. > >> > >> Dima > >> > >>> > >>> I hope our migration process doesn't take 7 years like Python's. For > >>> comparison, > >>> as of today there are 60,730 Python issues and 34,557 sagetrac issues, > >>> so the size > >>> of the relevant data sets is comparable. So to anybody who are > >>> working on this > >>> herculean effort, my hat is off to you. > >>> > >>> William > >>> > >>> > >>> On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 12:51 AM Marc Mezzarobba <m...@mezzarobba.net> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > Matthias Koeppe wrote: > >>> > > This is great question, thanks for the pointer to this GitLab.com > URL. > >>> > > I've updated > >>> > > > >>> > > https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki/Github-vs-Gitlab-vs-trac#in-favor-of-gitlab > >>> > > based on it. > >>> > > >>> > Additionally, here in France at least, many universities and research > >>> > institutes already host their own (internal or semi-public) gitlab > >>> > instance. > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > Marc > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "sage-devel" group. > >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >>> > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/tg971e%2412pj%241%40ciao.gmane.io > . > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> William (http://wstein.org) > >>> > >>> -- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "sage-devel" group. > >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sage-devel/ayOL8_bzOfk/unsubscribe. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >>> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CACLE5GB71KRBqzNnGJxopidE43Ry2cmrJe4p1sg3MNoyOFpfKQ%40mail.gmail.com > . > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "sage-devel" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAAWYfq0qbB_%2BxQNgbbaX6%3DypovpBwaDcPXWtUxH3sCoJLA6jbQ%40mail.gmail.com > . > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "sage-devel" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAChs6_%3DmeCNmcfRQJf%3DRXqTBeU-VQ_7eSZ0ULDY0J0YA6kcuQg%40mail.gmail.com > . > > > > -- > William (http://wstein.org) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-devel" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CACLE5GB33geDUTPpKz3h5ZkjTQ6zAYAy06wsLsB5NDKn9OUE2A%40mail.gmail.com > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. 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