Given that we've had far more interest in Github than Gitlab, and that it's a lot easier to transfer from Github to Gitlab later, I agree with Dima that the vote should be on just the question of whether to move to Github. Moreover, John Palmieri made a convincing argument (to me at least) that we should not add in an extra 2/3 requirement for this vote specifically (the requirement for such a threshold should be part of a larger discussion on Sage's governance). Finally, since we're just voting on trac vs github I don't think there's a need to draw out the discussion until October 1, and several people (William and Dima) have made arguments for making a decision more quickly. Of course, discussion can continue in parallel with voting, and people are able to change their votes if they're convinced to do so.
We still need to finish the comparison of trac and github <https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki/Github-vs-Gitlab-vs-trac>, the description of a github Sage workflow <https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki/migration-from-trac-to-Git**b>, and draft an email announcing a vote. I propose sending versions of the following emails to sage-devel on Wednesday (two days from now), including starting a new discussion thread (since the title of this one no longer holds: we are not discussing an incremental move to github anymore). David Dear Sage developers, Following extensive discussion, both recently <https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/ayOL8_bzOfk/m/Pg-rmYAUBwAJ> (prompted by issues upgrading the trac server) and over <https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/yBv5MCG9SJY/m/gYOYnRhzDAAJ> the <https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/Xw6CNq1lyiI/m/_XcxeD_kDQAJ> last <https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/z33SLveYiIo/m/CxNxsXnBeNAJ> decade <https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/DmjL8hHJYI8/m/NG9_xmsPbFYJ>, we are calling a vote on switching Sage development from Trac <https://trac.sagemath.org/> to Github <https://www.github.com>. We've created a summary of the pros and cons of each system <https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki/Github-vs-Gitlab-vs-trac>, a description of the development model to be used on github <https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki/migration-from-trac-to-Git**b>, and a trac ticket <https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/30363> for coordinating work on the transition.. More work will need to be done to carry out the actual transition once voting is complete. The voting will last until noon Eastern time on Wednesday, October 5. Please use this thread only for sending votes, to make it easier to count them afterward; there is a parallel thread where you can make arguments in favor of either system. Finally, I will close with a plea to be involved in this vote and discussion even if you are not a core Sage developer. By definition, core Sage developers have become comfortable with trac, and I think that one of the major arguments in favor of github is that it will help bring in new contributors who are not familiar with Sage's development workfow <https://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/developer/index.html>. Dear Sage developers, As announced in a parallel thread, we are voting to move Sage development from Trac to Github. Several of us have created a wiki page <https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki/Github-vs-Gitlab-vs-trac> attempting to summarize arguments in favor of each system, and this thread can serve as a space for people to make clear their own reasoning for favoring one option over the other. This discussion has gotten heated at times, so remember to be considerate, respectful and polite <https://github.com/sagemath/sage/blob/develop/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md>: we are all aiming to make Sage better. On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 10:47 AM Dima Pasechnik <dimp...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mon, 19 Sep 2022, 15:35 William Stein, <wst...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Here is a 3-minute section of a PyCon 2022 keynote by the steering >> council discussing migration of CPython to GitHub: >> >> https://youtu.be/m2R5shF1pLc?t=535 >> >> In particular, they talk about how much effort went into the >> migration, and just how difficult it was, and how GitHub was >> directly involved with supporting their effort. It took nearly 7 >> years (!) from when the plan was first created in 2015: >> >> https://peps.python.org/pep-0512/ >> >> This Python PEP is itself pretty interesting, e.g., it outlines why >> they chose GitHub or GitLab. >> > > I had a quick look, and noted that in this PEP they as well moved from > mercurial to git, set up a number of bots (probably not needed for us), set > up testing infrastructure. > All of this, except bots, is already done for us > > And in few places they described features they needed to put extra effort > in, while they are now in GitHub already. > So it's much less work for us. > > Dima > > >> I hope our migration process doesn't take 7 years like Python's. For >> comparison, >> as of today there are 60,730 Python issues and 34,557 sagetrac issues, >> so the size >> of the relevant data sets is comparable. So to anybody who are >> working on this >> herculean effort, my hat is off to you. >> >> William >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 12:51 AM Marc Mezzarobba <m...@mezzarobba.net> >> wrote: >> > >> > Matthias Koeppe wrote: >> > > This is great question, thanks for the pointer to this GitLab.com URL. >> > > I've updated >> > > >> > >> https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki/Github-vs-Gitlab-vs-trac#in-favor-of-gitlab >> > > based on it. >> > >> > Additionally, here in France at least, many universities and research >> > institutes already host their own (internal or semi-public) gitlab >> > instance. >> > >> > -- >> > Marc >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "sage-devel" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/tg971e%2412pj%241%40ciao.gmane.io >> . >> >> >> >> -- >> William (http://wstein.org) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "sage-devel" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sage-devel/ayOL8_bzOfk/unsubscribe. >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CACLE5GB71KRBqzNnGJxopidE43Ry2cmrJe4p1sg3MNoyOFpfKQ%40mail.gmail.com >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sage-devel" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAAWYfq0qbB_%2BxQNgbbaX6%3DypovpBwaDcPXWtUxH3sCoJLA6jbQ%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAAWYfq0qbB_%2BxQNgbbaX6%3DypovpBwaDcPXWtUxH3sCoJLA6jbQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. 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